UKC

Over the years I've used a number of different petzl and BD headtorches and my current headtorch is a BD 350 lumen but I frequently find it struggles when route finding etc.

I'm aware of a few new brands e.g. Fenix and led sensor and wondered if there is such a torch that is fairly robust with a decent burn time but kicks out a strong beam and relatively lightweight

I'd also like the option of using rechargeable and regular batteries

Basically the holy grail of headtoches

TIA

In reply to Rick Asher:

I'm a fan of the fenix HM65R (https://www.fenixlight.co.uk/product/fenix-hm65r-headlamp-1722) .  Fully waterproof, metal casing so very robust.  1400 lumens is a bit misleading (combines the 1000lumens and 400 lumens of the spot and flood beams) but still bright and good battery life.  Spare batteries aren't ridiculously expensive and not custom so can be bought from other companies, used elsewhere etc.

Cheers, 

Stu

In reply to Rick Asher:

I bought 25 or so fenix hm62-t for my MRT. They're very bright, light, compact and reasonably priced. They come with an 18650 battery with integrated charger, so you take the battery out and plug it in via usb-c, and they'll last hours on a single charge. You can also carry spare non-rechargable Lithium 123A batteries - 2 of these will fit the torch and be compatible. The massive advantage of these in winter is that their chemistry works well down to -40C or so, which is far better than any rechargeable li-ion or li-po batteries.

In reply to StuDoig:

Is the 400 lumen setting good enough for climbing?

In reply to Rick Asher:

I think you'll find that if you point 400 lumens at a snowy/icy slope just in front of you,  it will be dazzling.

Your eyes do adjust to lower light levels but i'd want 1000 lumens available for navigation decisions.

In reply to Rick Asher:

I once did a night time route in the Avon Gorge - Petros.  My mate Christian had a new headtorch, bought for night-time orienteering.  Maybe 1500 lumens, or more.  I was leading and every time i looked down, i was dazzled.  Was a right PITA.  So you need to consider that you'll be operating around other people, some of the time.

In reply to DaveHK:

The 400l setting is bright for climbing and the 130 ok for closer stuff. The brighter settings are really useful for Nav / route finding rather than climbing.

When caving I quite often use the 130 setting for easy / small passages.

In reply to Paul McWhinney:

Thanks.

In reply to Rick Asher:

I switched from a myo rxp to a biolite 800 last winter. It has a great boost feature, I don't rate it apart from that but it's decent value for the quality of light it puts out. It's nice being able to have it on a low light setting and quickly light everything up for route finding without having to cycle through the settings. 

In reply to Rick Asher:

My other half has a LED Lenser H7R which she really rates. It has a bezel on the lamp body that you can use to focus the beam for navigation - she uses it for night running in events where navigation is key. Battery life is good as well - she has the rechargeable version but apparently there is an option for a holder that will take regular batteries (available separately).

In reply to Rick Asher:

I have the LED Lenser H7R for work and it's excellent, you can adjust both beam angle and brightness using dials on the body, and there's a boost function where you get a short blast at full chat (1000 lumen). I bought it for night shifts and it'll last for 8-10 hours on a moderate brightness level.

I don't take it out on the hill because it's quite big and bulky, the battery pack is on the back of the harness and is a right old lump. I've got two Petzl Actik Core 600 rechargeable things for mountaineering, I think they're a good balance of price, weight and brightness and you can chuck in standard batteries in place of the rechargeable one. You get 2-3 hours at 600l or 7-8 at 100. I like to have a whole spare torch with me and two Petzls weigh less than the LED Lenser for essentially the same amount of cash.

In reply to pancakeandchips:

I've just looked at the specs for the hm62, if I was buying new that's definitely what I'd go for.

In reply to Dave Cundy:

1000 lumens?! Bloody hell that's bright. Until a few months ago I did everything with a 150 lumen head torch and I thought it was really bright. Santa bought me a 800 lumen one for Christmas and it basically turns night into day. I can't possibly imagine why I'd ever need anything brighter. 

In reply to Andypeak:

Really bright lights are useful for mountain biking in the dark.

In reply to Rick Asher:

We have quite a lot of headtorches in our house due to the amount of orienteering we do!  Last autumn I bought a Fenix HM62-T.  I wanted something compact, bright, sturdy and rechargeable which would cope with a couple of hours floundering around in the dark.  All good so far...

I would urge you to have a look at the 1lumen.com website to understand exactly how the manufacturer's claims stack up against reality.  Sure, my HM62-T can pump out 1200lm on the brightest setting, and the brightest setting can power the torch for 3h45m+.  But, do you get 1200lm for 3h45m?  No, of course not.  You get >1000lm for around 2m30s, then a gradual step down to around 400lm after 10 mins.  400lm is maintained for the around 2h20m before a couple more step downs and darkness after 4h.  This kind of profile of light output is pretty standard for most torches' brightest settings.  Blame ANSI if you like - manufacturers are just sticking to ANSI's standards, which can be summarised as 'runtime = time for output to drop to 10% of its initial value'.

Here's the link https://1lumen.com/review/fenix-hm62-t/  Runtime graphs are about 80% of the way down the review.

In reply to Rick Asher:

My default answer is Lupine.

I've  had a Piko for around ten years now, used for work and MTB / climbing and anything else I can think of.

I was recently looking to replace it with a newer version only because I wanted the Bluetooth version. 

The options for head mounted or pocket mounted battery are useful and interchangable for larger capacity if required.

Typical German manufacturing quality.

Edit, had numerous petzl, energizer BD etc etc all have failed for one reason or another

In reply to Dave Todd:

Well, you'd need a huge brass heatsink or a fan to keep it running at 1200 lumens for 4 hours. The Turbo disclaimer is stated in the specs and pretty normal. There are other models with constant output regulation outside of Turbo mode as well (I prefer that sometimes, since I want to know how many hours at 400 lumens I actually get, without it gradually dropping lower, and just plan spare batteries accordingly).

Still much less deceptive then e.g. Petzl's preposterous claims of days at full output from 3xAAAs before the ANSI FL1...

In reply to Frank R.:

Agree with all you say.  People can get excited about maximum lumens output without realising that the maximum output may only be sustained for a few minutes.

The 'second brightest' setting on my HM62T gives a steady 150lm for >10h.  Still absolutely fine for many tasks outdoors, but not quite as sexy if you're trying to write the marketing material for these torches!

In reply to Frank R.:

One of my friends is a orienteering runner. Among those people the lumen-war has gone really crazy. His new head torch is a Silva Ignite which has a max output of a whooping 10.000 lumen! I don’t know for how long, but it has a heatsink and a fan.

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

Silva (Spectra) down from 10,000lm to 1,500lm in 4 mins...

https://1lumen.com/review/silva-spectra/

In reply to Andypeak:

Indeed, you’d set fire to trees with that. However did we manage with the Petzl Zoom?

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

I still have some old MagicShine Chinese bike light – around 1000 lumens or so – it came with a hefty aluminium heatsink ribbing on the torch unit itself and a pretty heavy 6‑cell Li-ion pack.

Constant output regulation – the 1000 lumen mode stayed on until the overheat warning kicked in. Guess what, unless riding at 20-30 km/h or so with plenty of air cooling, it would overheat almost instantly if used as a stationary torch at max output.

It's just basic thermodynamics, unfortunately. Even if modern LEDs are insanely more efficient than halogen or tungsten bulbs, there is still plenty of heat. And LEDs hate heat, so it either has to go somewhere else (heat sink and convection on a speedy bike ride), or just have to throttle down.

In reply to Dave Todd:

Just FYI, there are several Fenix head torches like the 60 & 50 that have been explicitly adjusted for the EU (Slovakia?) importer to their own specs, adding features (red LED) and modifying the power x discharge curves to have flat output for the longest time before dropping down a power level...

Unfortunately, not available in the UK AFAIK, so you'd have to pay the VAT and Customs.

EDIT: Found it - Czechia importer, not Slovakia. Sorry.

https://www-kronium-cz.translate.goog/srovnani-celovek-fenix-hm50r-v2-0-a-h...

In reply to Frank R.:

That's really interesting!

In reply to Rick Asher:

I had a Lenser for a long time and liked it except that it kept slipping down and bashing me in the nose when running. I concluded that I need a band over the top of the head too. So now I have a Fenix and get on really well with it. Had it for years and still very happy with it. I rarely use it's brightest setting, but it is impressive for the times that I do need it!

In reply to StuDoig:

I've also got FenixHeadTorch. I went for this model as it seemed better balanced and I reckon you could add a down the shirt battery if needed.

https://www.fenixlight.co.uk/product/fenix-hp25r-v2.0-1745

Searched for reviews beforehand and was really disappointed with the UKC review which basically just reviewed a few of the usual suspects' torches rather than actually making it worthwhile by including some of the less well known ( in mountaineering circles). Especially given that the ones they did review seemed to have significant flaws...

In reply to Rick Asher:

I have just bought a Fenix HM65R-T V2.  I have only been for a few night runs but have been pleased with it so far.

In reply to Frank R.:

Fenix sent me an HM65R-T to review (full disclosure, it was free) but I'm impressed with it and would recommend.

I've also got an older 900 lumen one as mountain rescue issue which has performed well in some really hideous weather. They're definitely as waterproof as most mountain users would need. Battery life does suffer in the cold and I've managed to burn through a whole battery in 5hrs of rescue on constant full beam. I think this kind of use is unlikely unless you're particularly slow at winter climbing/like climbing in the dark/really need the night nav practice for your ML.

In addition to the head torches, I also have two Fenix handheld torches. They're really good too and I think this build quality is apparent across their whole range. The biggest problem is weight. They are far more burly than the Petzl lights I've used, but at a weight penalty. 

In reply to Rick Asher:

Hello Rick, hope you're well. I have been impressed with the Petzl Nao RL.

In reply to Rick Asher:

Thanks for all the useful feedback, it’s appreciated.

I’m leaning towards the Fenix HM65R-T, it ticks many boxes.

Good performance for my needs, lightweight and robust.

My current BD headtorch is actually 400 lumen and not 350 and I like that illumination on full power but obviously that’s not sustainable for long.

Its main purpose is for winter climbing and having a high lumen for brief inspections of route directions and same for avoiding difficult ground on walk ins/outs etc 

thanks👍

In reply to Brass Nipples:

We only had the infamous Achille Pile Wander (spelling approximate) delicate fragile and infinitely annoying.

In reply to Rick Asher:

I changed my opinions about what's important for a hillwalking head torch in Aug a couple of years ago. I was walking when thoroughly dark off a hill on a not very distinct track (pay attention and OK) over some steep downhill rough ground through bracken. You needed to be able to see your feet due to rocks and drops in this very narrow bracken path so a head torch was needed not to break an ankle. But using the torch meant you lost night vision and could then only see your pool of light and not the bigger surroundings... bad for navigation. Stupidly it was only 2/3rds the way down that I remembered it had a red light mode so I tried it. Absolutely perfect... Brilliant  balance between being able to see where I was putting my feet and still see the wider landscape and surroundings.

After that, I wouldn't want a head torch for walking that didn't offer a red light option. In some cases it can be really useful. Not just for people who think they're "tactical" or whatever, it's genuinely brilliant for walking in some scenarios.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

I'm surprised your post got this far without any else mentioning the ability and usefulness of having a red beam if you want to read a map or do something which won't ruin  your night vision and I assume uses far less power.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Slight tangent, but that's a situation where I've often found it useful having a torch not on my head (a white hand-held one, whilst running mostly) - so much easier to quickly judge the shape and size of the kind of rock you could turn an ankle on when you can also see its shadow.

In reply to LucaC:

It'd be great if they'd send UKC a couple so they could be included in future group tests on here.

In reply to Rick Asher:

The Fenix HM65R-T (specifically the T) has a tightener on the headband which works very well for running but limits the band extension (and is a bit more vulnerable) so it isn’t so suitable for helmets (a separate headband might be available). I think there is another hm65r which has a red option (mine predate that). (For a short bimble the HM50R is surprisingly good but you'd want spare batteries in case it turned out not short...).
 

In reply to Paul McWhinney:

I’ve just put my HT65R-T on my helmet (Metor M/L) and it fitted fine. I see your point as the boa system has a maximum limit that wouldn’t fit if it was much smaller. 

In reply to Paul McWhinney:

I’ve just put my HT65R-T on my helmet (Metor M/L) and it fitted fine. I see your point as the boa system has a maximum limit that wouldn’t fit if it was much smaller. 

In reply to Paul McWhinney:

The "T" stands for "trail" and that version is marketed as being specifically for trail running, so it doesn't seem particularly unreasonable really that they don't expect you to be wearing a helmet. 

The version with a red floodlight instead of white is, slightly cheesily, called the HM65R 'ShadowMaster'.

In reply to Rick Asher:

The 'warm white' mode on the HT65R-T is actually really good for map reading/working close to you/operating in snow as it's slightly less dazzling than the usual cool white temp of most head torches. I've never found the red mode on any torch useful. 

I've not had a problem with the boa copy tensioner on either a Kask rescue helmet or a Petzl Sirocco. 

In reply to Rick Asher:

I was recently lucky enough to win a Fenix HM70R  which is bright enough at 1600 lumens, but I don't use it all that much as its not that comfortable on the head (not an issue if fitted to a helmet) and theres a bewildering choice of light levels (you don't just keep pressing the button to toggle through, its more complicated than that).  Some folk love them though................

https://www.fenixlight.co.uk/product/fenix-hm70r-headlamp-1759?srsltid=AfmB...

In reply to Jonty Mills:

Thanks Monty, hope you're good

In reply to Rick Asher:

Definitely check if the T version fits your helmet, it is a squeeze and might not work for some lids. I got a standard HM65r as the band is longer. 

Pros

Fantastic light. Normally good run times, but you will need a spare battery. Excellent accidental ‘on’ protection. Brilliant spot function; it comes on at your last setting which means you don’t have to cycle through settings. Robust. Normally using 3-5hrs on a Friday night and another 4-5hrs on Saturday in a mix of Flood setting 2 and 1 plus a bit of high spot results in roughly 50% drain at -2 to -4degC.

Changing batteries is very easy and could be done in the dark.

Downsides

As mentioned above if cold battery life drops; on  a w/e of -5 to -14 DegC the battery was drained even though it had only had 6hrs use at low to moderate settings.

If you use high spot and flood you will chew through the battery.

Buttons are a little small for gloves and wouldn’t be useable with mitts. One Scottish MRT has rejected on that basis.

No strobe function.

we have come along way from Petzl glooms and early myos!

In reply to Rick Asher:

I have the 65HMR T version. I use it all the time for hill running in winter, and Scottish winter climbing. It's the only headtorch you need.

The medium setting on the floodlight mode is fine for lead climbing.

I only use the brightest floodlight setting when hill running down technical terrain. Don't really use the brightest settings winter climbing.

it has a feature to stop it turning itself on insode your pack which is confidence inspiring.

I almost never use the spotlight setting on its highest setting. The only times I use the highest setting is for ~5 seconds here and there to locate a navigational features (cairn, fence, path) in the distance - it's very useful for that.

I've used Silva and Petzl head torches previously. I find they switch on inside your pack easily and tend to break/failafter just a few years (especially Silva)

In reply to

Has anyone got any advice on buying spare 18650 batteries? It would seem to me that higher capacity it better but other than that I'm not sure.

It looks like I can get something that matches the branded ones performance for about a quarter of the cost. Are they all much of a muchness or do you get what you pay for?

In reply to

Oh and a quick review of the Fenix HM65R having used it once.

Seems decent. I bought it because my previous torch didn't work well with helmet/hood due to the rear battery pack and it certainly works better in that regard. Can't comment too much on battery life as I had put a very old, lower capacity battery in and carried the one supplied as spare. It did about 3hrs on the walk in and 1.5hrs on the walk out with a couple of bars left but that's not a long time really. Due to our awesome speed and efficiency I didn't need to climb with it but even the lowest spot setting was fine for walking. What I did miss at times was the focus ring on my previous torch (LED Lenser MH10) which made it far better for picking out distant features than even the highest setting on the HM65R.

Pretty happy overall.

In reply to DaveHK:

I too would be interested in educated advice on spares, as there seamed to be a wide choice.

Thoughts; obviously needs a button top. Fenix make a big deal that theirs have a pressure relief valve incase of a runaway overheating battery, plus discharge, overcharge and short circuit protection.

Ive assumed that any with more than 4000mAh are dodgy, and that the cheaper ones with simple labelling were designed to be assembled in laptop batteries, and where supplied by unknown overseas web outlets might be used, or dodgy.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

I remember doing the High Peak Marathon and a friend I was doing it with upgraded his standard zoom bulb to the halogen option. We spend the entire race taking the **** of of him for having a headtorch as bright as a lighthouse, claiming to be blinded by it with every head turn. Compared to modern headtorches, it was probably as bright as a candle!

In reply to DaveHK:

I've got spare Samsung batteries for my work head torch (LED Lenser) and they seem really good. I bought them because I'm still on a 2016 Samsung dumb phone and the battery has just kept on going. Been through loads of charge cycles and still have what feels like the same burn time and output. I think about 3600mAh is the highest most 'name' brands go.

I'm sceptical of cheap batteries, I know quite a few lads at work who have purchased knock off Li-ion stuff for their power tools etc and it's a total lottery. Some are as good as OEM, some melt, overheat or die pretty rapid.

In reply to DaveHK:

One thing to watch for is that there are slight size variations between 18650's. The Fenix branded ones (which are good batteries) are slightly longer than some (1-2mm if I remember). The shorter ones don't always work in the HM65R etc. (The longer ones work fine in other devices which work with the short ones... can't remember the brand of my non-comparible ones, but a decent make).

The size difference relates to the protection circuitry.

In reply to Paul McWhinney:

Isn't that mostly true for all brands, though? IIRC all unprotected cells tend to be slightly shorter, as they are intended to be used tab‑soldered in packs anyway. Or is it the other way around, with 18650 original specs length being for unprotected cells (notebooks and cars where the battery is protected, not the individual soldered cells), and protected 18650 only came later?

All in all, using an unprotected cell in any appliance is highly recommended against, unless you really know what you are doing. Any cell packs quite a punch of energy.

TL;DR to the original question: I'd always use a protected cell from a known brand than something dubious 1/4 the price – either you won't get the advertised capacity, you might risk a fire, or even both.

Red light, uhe leds, comes with high capacity battery https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006508698512.html

In reply to Frank R.:

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but there is some variability in the length of protected batteries. The Fenix are slightly longer than some other protected cells (sorry don't have them to hand to check the brand). Thus, some reputable brand protected batteries are too short for the HM65R.   The unprotected cell is 65mm long, most Fenix are about 69mm long but some brands have slightly more compact circuitry.

Absolutely.

Of course. There are a lot of batteries out there where low quality equates with dangerous.