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/ Climbing Everest - Training Advice

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Joshmackintosh - on 21 Dec 2017
Hi there,

I am 24 and am looking to summit Everest in around 5 years time (Although if I do not feel I am ready this date can easily be moved). I have limited experience with climbing and am looking for advice as to what training regimes people found most valuable and useful for their trips to Everest. I understand this is a costly and challenging endeavor and I would greatly appreciate any wisdom some more experienced climbers can offer.
27
profitofdoom on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

One factor is it depends on whether you want to pay for your Everest trip by going with a commercial venture like Jagged Globe or not. Such companies usually have guidelines on their websites about the climbing experience required, you could read that first. Also those trips are expensive you might like to start saving up, I would
jonnie3430 - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Why do you want to do it? It's not really a mountaineering objective if you go with a guided group as you'll be dragged up by guides with all your kit carried by porters.

Best would be throw yourself whole heartedly into climbing, going from rock to winter to alpine and getting really hill fit, once a mountaineer you may find that you want to spend the cash doing many interesting climbing expeditions instead of one Everest exped though.

Or do a lot of running including lots of hills.
4
Ben_Climber - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Be very fit and very wealthy.

Go and climb lots of things in alps and gain experience. Then you will realise there are plenty of better things out there to do than Everest.

Ben
2
JLS on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
Everest isn't be a popular topic here on UKC as the general view is that Everest bagging is a bit of a circus done by the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
Undoubted there will be some lurkers around the site that will have done it and would have the advise you are after. Whether they stick their head above the parapet remains to be seen.

FWIW, my advice would be get skilled up though UK winter/alpine training courses and visits to Scottish hills. Then see how Mont Blanc goes in the summer...
Post edited at 10:57
2
Hannah V - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

Not all commercial expeditions involve being dragged up by guides. I've recently been on Cholatse with Jagged Globe and spent nearly the whole summit day ascending and descending the fixed ropes alone, without sherpas or guides by my side. With the exception of tents we carried all our own kit up and down the mountain.
5
jonnie3430 - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Hannah V:

Fixed ropes are worse.
4
teh_mark on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
If you truly enjoy being in the mountains and you're not thinking of it because 'it's Everest', then go and develop the skills you need to be self-reliant in the mountains, and go have adventures of your own accord in them. Where's the joy in standing on the summit of the world's highest mountain, knowing you're there only through the work of others who have the skills?

Jugging up ropes fixed by other people, having your gear carried by other people, is not an impressive achievement.

Being honest, what motivates you?
Post edited at 12:29
1
tingle - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

What Ben says, getting the relevant experience and fitness over five years will make you appreciate the many other better objectives the world has to offer. So get out and build yourself up by joining a club, making friends or taking classes. Mentioning the E word here is an automatic feather ruffler for a lot of people which is why you're getting the down votes i assume.
Hannah V - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

I'm well aware that the concept of fixed ropes is disliked by the majority of climbers on UKC but for people who don't have a climbing partner that is interested or able to commit to trips to the bigger ranges, commercial expeditions - and whatever style they choose to climb the mountain by - is sometimes an acceptable alternative (although maybe not in everyone's opinion).
1
Wanderer100 - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Hannah V:

Don't let them wind you up Hannah.
Looks like you had a great trip on Cholatse.
I'm surprised there's no pics on your gallery from Kyajo Ri last year.
Mike got up Alpamayo earlier this year as well as numerous other Andean peaks.
Hope you are well!!
1
yesbutnobutyesbut - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Poor 1/10
2
Mike Highbury - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Ben_Climber:
> Be very fit and very wealthy.

He's saving cash by starting the walk-in earlier than most.
Joshmackintosh - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to teh_mark:

While I understand that some individuals get porters etc, I am not looking to do this. If I am going to do it, Im going to do it properly. Ever since I climbed Snowdon a couple of years ago I have been very interested in tackling some serious mountains, and I am now finally at a point where this can be a realistic goal given the time and effort.

I understand that climbing everest may have been commercialized over the years, but I dont think its OK to paint everyone with the same brush in that all people nowadays climbing everest are just being carried by others.
2
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
Ever since I climbed Snowdon a couple of years ago....

i like your style....


Post edited at 14:38
teh_mark on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

We all have our own personal values and morals that we're comfortable climbing to; I personally can't imagine getting any enjoyment or satisfaction out of jugging up ropes fixed by others, on oxygen, surrounded by lots of other people doing the same, for the wrong reasons. It's just not why I head into the mountains, so forgive me if I sound a bit cynical.

If I were you I'd follow the excellent advice already given - go out into the hills, get out in winter in Scotland, learn the skills you need to be out there safely, maybe once you have a bit of experience try and get yourself on a Conville Course or similar and learn how to apply what you've learnt to glaciated terrain in the Alps. Have great fun learning how to do it all yourself, without a guide, and have great fun exploring beautiful mountains closer to home, self-sufficiently with partners you can appreciate the experience with. Along the way you may well come to realise that Everest isn't all that; it's not the hardest, it's not the most serious (though it is undoubtedly serious, I'm not arguing that), and in some ways is an embarrassment to all that much of the mountaineering community holds dear.
1
GrahamD - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Aim for a few big Alpine seasons to start with.
1
richlan - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Oh dear, come on, it's one thing having ambitions but to go from 'climbing' Snowdon as your intro to talking about Everest is just plain silly, set yourself the target of doing the Wainwrights in a year, the welsh 3000ers in a weekend or similar stuff, this will get you hill fit then decide if the Himalaya is for you.....
6
Mowglee on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
Read/watch this - all of it - and think about why you want to go up this particular hill. This is one of the best articles on the topic I've seen in a long while which doesn't have a particular agenda - it's just brutally factual. There are so many more worthwhile objectives which, as someone new to climbing/mountaineering, won't even have occurred to you yet. If you do get into climbing, it's pretty likely Everest won't be quite so appealing in a few years time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/18/sports/everest-deaths.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Hom...
Post edited at 15:41
Joshmackintosh - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to richlan:

Seeing as I have set the goal post a minimum of 5 years in the future I dont think its silly actually. I also assume that knowing the mountain and terrain you want to climb is probably beneficial to the training that you put yourself through. This elitist attitude because someone wants to try and climb everest is pretty shameful
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Joshmackintosh - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Mowglee:

Funnily enough I came across this article already and I couldnt agree more with what you say.
richlan - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Elitist ? Erm no, practical, you asked for training, i gave you advice, lots of hill time, that's all you need for the time being, you may find you can't tolerate altitude anyway, you need to find that out, the Alps will do that as others have suggested.

Cheers
1
teh_mark on 21 Dec 2017
Mowglee on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
Not elitist. To go from zero to a competent high altitude mountaineer in 5 years is feasible, if you have enough money and time to throw at it*. It's just whether it's worth that time and effort (and risk), and a majority of experienced climbers would say it's not.

*like enough to have several trips to the Alps, Andes and Himalaya every year for 5 years. £100k perhaps? Cheaper if you pay an agency to drag you up. Then just earn the money and get fit.
Post edited at 15:58
thommi - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
josh, I cant see any elitism here. people are just responding, and please bear in mind that this is a climbing forum. you may have more luck getting the responses you wish to hear on another site, adventurersweb or what not. Chomolungma is an elephant in the room amoungst climbers, and I agree with other posters that if you do get more into climbing you will begin to see the reasons why, but that is not to say that the mountain is without allure. Id suggest that you spend a while doing as much reading on the subject as possible, and form your own opinions a little bit more. and dont get too upset about the (mount) snowdon thing, it is a bit of a jump to say that because youve done that you now want to do everest, there are many steps to be taken in between, not 1, 2, 10000 (vague Mark Twight reference there, and if you dont know who he is, see my comment about reading a little more). good luck with whatever direction you choose to travel.
Post edited at 16:04
jonnie3430 - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

You know the peak fee on its own is about $11,000? For that alone you could probably have 4 trips to Kyrgyzstan climbing new peaks for the first time. I know which I'd rather do.
Carless - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

> This elitist attitude because someone wants to try and climb everest is pretty shameful

You might want to rethink that comment
There's plenty of people here who have done a lot more impressive things than following a fixed rope up Everest: lots of them will be happy to give you useful advice - but not with comments like that

By all means, go for it. As someone said above, put in the training and the money. And while you're doing the training, you may notice your dreams might change

Good luck whatever you decide
summo on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

If mountains are your passion, why not take the long view. Work your way up and around the hills of the UK, Europe and the rest of world, whilst getting your guides ticket. Then you can potentially be paid to take others up.

Or. If you are fit healthy and motivated, plus with £100k ish there is no reason why you can't summit Everest within 18-30 months (weather or illness permitting).
GrahamD - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Mowglee:

> Not elitist. To go from zero to a competent high altitude mountaineer in 5 years is feasible, if you have enough money and time to throw at it*.

Worth reading 'Savage Arena'.

Mike Rhodes - on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Josh don't be put off by the comments on this site as most of them are anti fixed ropes/porters etc but they would all use the cable car to climb Mont Blanc and happily eat food at refuges supplied by porters/helicopters but as a climbing novice you have to understand that most climbers on this site have great experience on big routes all over the world and get their pleasure from doing great deeds as much on their own as possible.
With regard to Everest, as many have said, you need to discover proper mountains and mountaineering, irrespective whether you use a fully supported trip or not. On this mountain there is no substitute for fitness and experience and you need to gain this bit by bit on hills in the UK, Alps/Europe, North/South America etc as this will be demanded by any company you choose to go with. You will find that climbing high mountains is like banging your head against a wall, it is nice when you stop, except your throbbing head is unlikely to go away.
You may find that when you have gained this experience, you are no longer interested in climbing Everest with 1000 other people but if you still have this dream, get fit, save up and go for it.
Trangia on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Remember that fitness and training is no guarantee that you won't suffer from altitude sickness. For a Westerner I'm afraid that's always a lottery when it comes to high altitude.

Agree with others concerning getting loads of mountaineering experience to realise that there's a lot of enjoyment, some much more challenging and satisfying, out there, other than Everest.
mysterion on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Avoid all that climbing walls, bouldering, sport, and trad bollocks. Just walk up some mountains
Goucho on 21 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

As you've probably gathered, the Big Hill tends to evoke strong reactions on here

Whilst I too am hardly a fan of the commercial circus that Everest has become, each to his own.

The best advice I can give you, is to spend the next 5 (probably more in fact) years climbing as many routes, on as many mountains, on as many mountain ranges as you can, and if and when you reach the stage where you have accumulated the necessary level of skill and experience, see how you feel about it then?

If you still want to do it, go for it.

However, you may find by then, that you want to do something a bit more adventurous and inspiring on an 8000 metre peak, than just jugging up fixed ropes behind 200 other people

Damo on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Well Josh, I'm one of those people who have criticised the Everest scene, commercial expeditions, bottled oxygen and fixed ropes on here for years. I still do, for many provable reasons beyond personal style preferences.

But you asked a specific question and in the spirit of internet climbing forums, and Christmas (which I also f*#@king hate) I will offer you a slightly alternative response.

A lot of the advice on here is well-meaning, and traditional - but wrong. I say this not because I've been up Everest, I haven't, it looks awful, but I've climbed a bunch of other mountains, some high ones, have numerous Everest-guide friends, and have seen many people come in, go through, and out, or not, the process.

If you try and do a lot of Scottish climbing you will end up watching it rain from the car, tromping around in a whiteout and not getting much climbing done, and certainly not climbing any high mountains - which is ultimately what you want to do. To climb Everest you don't need be able to run it out 20ft above your dodgy tied-off screw on some obscure grade VI in a sleet storm.

Nor do you need to be able to climb hard alpine routes, something that would again take years of part-seasons and much failure and weather-watching. These are the traditional paths of British climbers to high mountains, but they are quite inefficient and no guarantee of success - in some cases quite the opposite. Times have changed. Everest is now something else, not really climbing.

You need to be physically very fit (but mostly legs and lungs, no excess muscle mass) and mentally up to it - both to handle the stress, the fear and the boredom and uncertainty. The mental side partly depends on your starting point, your personal history, personality and character now, but whatever, it needs to be built on by doing at least a few high mountain climbs.

Learn how to stay healthy on a 6-week expedition, many fit and experienced climbers have spent their $50,000 only to get a debilitating chest infection at BC and go home early.

Know what you need to eat up there, what makes you vomit.

Know what gear works for you, what fogs your goggles and what doesn't. What crampons don't fit on the only boots that are warm enough for you. What mat is best to sleep on, what gloves don't incapacitate you at 3am in -20C. This will inform you what you need to take that no company may provide.

You need to be able to crampon across an icy slope of 45 degrees unroped, when tired after a 10hr ascent, just in case you have to, without slipping and falling 1000m to your death. Forget WI climbing and increasing your sportclimbing grades - these are no help. So long as you can tie in safely and quickly every time (tired, in the dark, in gloves) and move safely and efficiently up a Diff, or Scottish II, you will be fine.

Basic alpine routes are good, such as normal routes in the Valais, and by all means do climb Mont Blanc, preferably unguided once you've got the basic skills and done a few lower peaks to acclimatise properly. But don't take too long on this early phase - you just need to get proficient at the basics.

Once you get to that level, don't worry about getting any better technically. Focus on going high, forget Elbrus, so go to the Andes (Sajama, Illimani, Huascaran) for at least three weeks, at least once, and climb a few 6000ers, either guided or not, and probably do Aconcagua to see the kind of clusterf#@ks you may encounter on Everest, and to get to almost 7000m.

Don't worry about steep, famous or technical peaks, or style. Just climb high safely and efficiently, see how you feel, and preferably do as much of it looking after yourself as you can, safely. Have some long days, get a bit worked, learn how to pace yourself and what YOU need to do to acclimatise well, which may be notably different from someone else, or the company brochure. Most itineraries are made for business, not health.

If you can climb such things - just one or two trips in two years, not five trips in a decade - and haven't lost interest then you can probably go climb Everest, because realistically nowadays you will be with a company that provides at least one personal Sherpa and enough bottled O2. Don't try and skimp or play hard man and go with less than this. Most climbers who try that fail, some fall back on others for help - and quite a few die. And if you've followed what I've said above you won't have the experience to safely climb it without bottled O2 anyway, and that was not your goal in the first place.

Decent companies will tell you to climb another, lower 8000er first. Mostly this is good advice, but plenty have summited Everest without doing this, and some companies just want the extra business. But it also gives you experience up high around 7500-8000m and experience with the scheduling and systems inherent in such climbs - bottled O2, ladders, summit schedules etc - and if you do it with the company you will climb Everest with, you get to know how they work, maybe with the same leader/guides and Sherpas. Such familiarity is not strictly necessary but will increase your chances in the end, as being familiar with their setup, systems and people removes unknowns for you, which means fewer chances to mess things up. There's already enough.

After all that it really comes down to what you can, and want to, afford - western guide? extra O2? comfy BC? - but how much of that you will need you will only know after doing something like all the above.



SenzuBean - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Practice climbing up and down aluminium ladder wearing crampons too.
1
pass and peak - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Damo:

Best answer yet!!! And to be clearly typed out at 02:00 this morning must come from someone who's had a few alpine starts!!
tingle - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Damo:

The truth is the scariest warning of all.
hokkyokusei - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Regardless whether or not your plan is a good idea or not, you might like to check out "Dare to Dream" by Matthew Dieumegard Thornton, he had a similar ambition. It's a free kindle download:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dare-Dream-Matthew-Dieumegard-Thornton/dp/1320359566
JLS on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Damo:
>"You need to be able to crampon across an icy slope of 45 degrees unroped, when tired after a 10hr ascent, just in case you have to, without slipping and falling 1000m to your death. Forget WI climbing and increasing your sportclimbing grades - these are no help. So long as you can tie in safely and quickly every time (tired, in the dark, in gloves) and move safely and efficiently up a Diff, or Scottish II, you will be fine."

In light of the above, is there really no value in day bagging six Munros in the 'Gorms in less than ideal conditions?

>"do climb Mont Blanc, preferably unguided once you've got the basic skills and done a few lower peaks to acclimatise properly"

I'm wondering if there any value in climbing Mont Blanc WITHOUT properly acclimatising to get a feel for you ability when feeling sh!t or is that just too dangerous? I sort of assume that guided clients on 8000m peaks never feel properly acclimatised despite the supplementary O2.
Post edited at 08:53
Damo on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to JLS:

> I'm wondering if there any value in climbing Mont Blanc WITHOUT properly acclimatising to get a feel for you ability when feeling sh!t or is that just too dangerous? I sort of assume that guided clients on 8000m peaks never feel properly acclimatised despite the supplementary O2.

That's true, they're not, at least not on lower mountains when I've seen them. They're barely 'tagging' the summit, zombified and no good to anyone else, or themself, in a mishap.

But that said, I couldn't recommend rushing up MB to deliberately court altitude sickness. Despite the danger, if it led to failure it's a wasted opportunity, and if the OP only has five years, he has to make the most of each trip.
TobyA on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

An old climbing mate of mine climbed Everest a couple of years ago. I think she was the second woman from her county and maybe 5th overall. I think her climb was the same year that I taught her how to place ice screws and she did her first ice lead, maybe 20 mtrs of WI2 ice. Her rock climbing level was relatively low also, and she wasn't leading much. So Damo's advice that spending ages becoming a solid all round climber is a waste of time seems pertinent. My friend is a busar for an airline though and used both time off on work flights and access to cheap tickets to clock up an impressive record of first hiking up and then climbing big peaks all over the world: Mexican and Indonesian volcanos, some big Andean Peaks, some alpine courses then Mt Blanc, Himalayan trekking peaks then ultimately Lhotse before Everest.

I don't think it's the type of thing that many people with family find easy to do, but then again having a pretty well paid job also seems important which is tricky for non-trustafarian kids! Good luck.
JLS on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Damo:

>"if it led to failure it's a wasted opportunity"

There is another way to look at that. The experience of failing due to altitude might be of more value than ticking the MB summit without difficulty. Still, I agree, it would probably be foolish for the OP to pop over to Chamonix for the weekend and nipping up MB with only Snowden under his belt. Though, I suspect it has been done...
Shapeshifter - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Mowglee:

> Read/watch this - all of it - and think about why you want to go up this particular hill. This is one of the best articles on the topic I've seen in a long while which doesn't have a particular agenda - it's just brutally factual.
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/18/sports/everest-deaths.html?hp&action=click&pg...


Thanks for posting that - sobering stuff, but an interesting read
broady - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Pulls up comfy chair and opens pop corn !
6
jasonC abroad - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

Not sure but I've just read the Boardman/Tasker omnibus and they seem to use a lot of fixed ropes. Where they doing it wrong?
1
teh_mark on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to jasonC abroad:

They did at least fix them themselves.
1
jasonC abroad - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to teh_mark:

True
Tyler - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

> but I dont think its OK to paint everyone with the same brush in that all people nowadays climbing everest are just being carried by others.
Maybe not everyone but those who aren't (other than those who are involved in getting commercial clients up the hill) are in a very tiny minority.
jonnie3430 - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to jasonC abroad:

Guides fix ropes on tricky sections; steeper snow or rock steps. They have them in place before clients get there and tidy them after (if at all, they may be there for the season,) so when you get to an interesting bit there is a rope up it already, meaning there is less challenge and often people without hill skills pulling themselves up something that isn't that tricky in the first place, but guides would normally short rope there, but can get more clients up safely by fixing ropes instead. Its like making the route into a via ferrata.
Hannah V - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

True, but you don't have to use fixed ropes just because they're there.
Moreover not all clients choose to 'haul' themselves up fixed ropes because they are in place.
4
teh_mark on 22 Dec 2017
petegunn on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

If the requirements change you may have to climb a 7000m peak before your allowed to climb Everest.
This new requirement along with several others have been talked about for some time so given that you have given it 5 years, there will doubtless be some changes by the time you are ready.
Simonfarfaraway - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

I would suggest that in the New Year after some guilty excess you start join 'bums and tums' classes at your local leisure centre and built a solid foundation.
RuthW - on 22 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about climbing Everest....I did once read this book which makes starting at Snowdon seem not so crazy....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seven-Steps-Snowdon-Everest-walkers/dp/0993413021/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qi...
Big Lee - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Hannah V:

> True, but you don't have to use fixed ropes just because they're there.

> Moreover not all clients choose to 'haul' themselves up fixed ropes because they are in place.

The issue for me with fixed ropes is that they are often not removed, and so affectively litter the mountain. I've only one experience of climbing fixed ropes but there were maybe four or five seasons worth of preexisting rope. It would have actually been quite difficult to climb independent of the ropes, given their number. Leaving a place as close to as I found it is a basic part of climbing for me. It's also a prerequisite for being accepted for an MEF grant for example. I think the difference with popular high altitude peaks is that the goal is to 'maintain' fixed ropes rather than remove them, but that doesn't lend well to people who don't want to climb a route laden fixed ropes. The best thing of course is for people who don't want to encounter fixed ropes to simply go climb something else, although this does appear to have created two separate rule books as to what is acceptable to leave on a mountain.
Wanderer100 - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Big Lee:

How is that any different from Tower Ridge for example which has old pegs banged in the rock and in situ slings draped around the block at Tower Gap? Or the slings and mailons at the top of Milestone Gully in North Wales? It's not just fixed ropes that litter the mountain is it.
1
summo on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Wanderer100:

> How is that any different from Tower Ridge for example which has old pegs banged in the rock and in situ slings draped around the block at Tower Gap? Or the slings and mailons at the top of Milestone Gully in North Wales? It's not just fixed ropes that litter the mountain is it.

They are only on stances and don't hang in the way of your hands and feet mid route.
Hannah V - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Big Lee:

I'm in no way trying to defend fixed ropes! And I'd rather not see them either.
But its just that I am not fond of the generalization that if you climb with a guide or climb a mountain where ropes have been fixed by sherpas or guides then somehow you are someone with no hill skills. There are people who are proficient and independent mountaineers who choose to climb with guides or commercial trips for their own reasons.
5
Wanderer100 - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to summo:

> They are only on stances and don't hang in the way of your hands and feet mid route.

I can't argue with that point but detrius is detrius. Far better to leave the mountain as we find it but i recognise it isn't always possible.
Wayne S - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Training is just part of preparation. I would concentrate on being prepared for self imposed challenges first and foremost, and for me the main starting point is to understand motivations.

You have received good advice on “Doing Everest”. If your motivation is trophy collection, then get fit, throw a pile of money at it, and if luck and weather is on your side you will have a trophy for life, and a benchmark for how high you can piss up a wall. Take a camera and make sure you have internet access!

or

And this is maybe the reason you have had some dislikes, you might as part of your preparation learn that you don’t “Do” climbing, or indeed conquer mountains. Aim at being a climber, not doing climbing, you should care more about the routes and experience, than the photos and trophies. The thing that propels you up a mountain is generally a twisted set of internal motivations, to climb hard you need an element of personality disorder! Being physically fit enough for the challenge is secondary to good motivations. Climbing mountains is generally a hateful pastime on which you look back with fond recollection. Being dog tired, cold, uncomfortable, scared with a banging head and a shortness of breath has little regard for how fit and worthy you are.

Are you looking to become a mountaineer/climber, then welcome aboard, you may have found some like minded fools. If you want to demonstrate your machismo, worth as a human being, and collect some pictures and trophies, then why would you care about the “Quality” of the ascent or contrary opinions.

Wayne

PS, I need to declare have never climbed much past 4000m.
Post edited at 09:11
iceox - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Hannah V:

Hmm,Many on here would not agree with that.I'm with them.
If you climb with a (guide) you are either lacking in pals , ain't up to it or can pay for a climbing partner.
Fixed ropes ok on some steep nasty ground.
Punterish snow slope....nno.
Fair point if you have the cash to pay folks to do the dirty work.
If not do it yourself.

The
Ox
8
Wayne S - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to iceox:

What a load of bollocks, I’m sure Hannah is fully aware of the style of any accent, and if you look at her profile I can see many acents in a different style to being on an organised expedition.

I’m sure she has more friends than you will have if you continue with that condescending tone.
2
iceox - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

Trolling good this morning,merry xmas.
5
Wayne S - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to iceox:
Merry Christmas....your comment did read a bit harsh and polar!
Northern Star on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

Would most of us on here want to climb Everest? The fashionable thing to say would be 'not on your nelly' not with all the fixed ropes, the oxygen and the dead bodies, all that commercialism and the rubbish - no way, not for me!

And it isn't, and I'd tell people I met it isn't. Secretly however, given the chance, if I had a spare £50k knocking around and could justify three months off work then why not?

In my time on earth spent loving the mountains, I have read many books on Everest, seen many films and as a child I'd often imagine myself up at 8,000m in a whiteout, the decisions I'd have made and what I'd have done differently from those who died. Would I have pushed on for the summit or would I have turned around? I guess I'll never know but despite the Circus that Everest seems to have become, the mystery still remains and I'd like to see it with my own eyes at some point.

It's unlikely I'll ever climb Everest - there's too many other far more worthy mountain objectives to keep me busy before that and an Alpamayo trip a few years ago was a highlight. And since it's unlikely I'll ever climb it, why should it bother me that others choose to, whether guided or not? And if it keeps (in some people's eyes), the 'unworthy' mostly in one location then surely this benefits the rest of us just fine - right?

As a side note whilst prepping to walk up to the Portjengrat Traverse this summer in Saas-Grund, we bumped into Victoria Pendleton and Kenton Cool about to head off up the Weismiss. From what Kenton said during the 10 min chat (and from what Vicky P didn't say), we figured that they were training for something big like Everest and it's interesting to hear that this is now confirmed. Look forward to seeing how they get on when it's makes the telly
AdrianC - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to iceox:

People quite often turn up on guided trips with good skills and experience. Maybe they're too busy to do the organising or they don't have the local knowledge to figure out the logistics or, as you say, can't find a suitable partner at the right time. They're deciding to buy a memorable experience for a sum that's comparable to the amount many people spend on a car.
iceox - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

I think it was more Asian than Polar.
However I'll stick to my guns about fixed ropes and the old boys.
If you want to climb a mountain do it yourself.
3
Rick Graham on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

In reply to iceox:
> Merry Christmas....your comment did read a bit harsh and polar!

TBF he's mellowed a bit over the years

Seasonal greetings, Ox.

Wayne S - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Rick Graham:
It’s not that I don’t get the sentiment about pre fixed ropes. But the comment was quite binary!
I just get grumpier and more fixed in my views as a rule, perhaps there is still hope!
1
JohnnyW - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Damo:

To Josh - This is the best advice you have had, and will get on here regarding your question. Well done to Damo for taking the time to give the lad a decent reply.
Goucho on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to iceox:

> I think it was more Asian than Polar.

> However I'll stick to my guns about fixed ropes and the old boys.

> If you want to climb a mountain do it yourself.

As someone who probably has the skills and experience, the time, and the cash, and who still has an 8000 metre itch which needs scratching, I still wouldn't pay for a commercial trip up Everest.

I want to climb mountains, not just get up them.

However, if I could find some like minded old farts who fancied a late in life trip to an eight thousander????
chris687 - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

PM'd you with some links to training articles
pass and peak - on 23 Dec 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

I actually read this a few years ago when it first came out, Its a very good incite into how difficult it is to fundraise for such an undertaking and the perseverance it takes!
Fruit on 24 Dec 2017
In reply to Hannah V:

Carried and fixed the ropes?
2
Big Lee - on 24 Dec 2017
In reply to Fruit:

> Carried and fixed the ropes?

Obviously... if you hire a guide they'll be fixing any ropes. What would you expect them to be doing? Preparing the sandwiches?

bouldery bits - on 24 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:

I'd probably do some sit ups?
Byronius Maximus - on 28 Dec 2017
In reply to Joshmackintosh:
The initial reason I got into climbing was because I was inspired by a book about Everest, and a guy at work who was heading off on a trip to the Himalayas with Jagged Globe. Back then (12 years ago), I had in my mind that Everest was what I wanted to do, much like you, so I can relate to your position.
I didn't set out any real kind of plan for getting to Everest, I just joined my university climbing club, splashed a bit of money on some kit and started to learn the basics.
Since then, I have discovered the joys of scrambling, trad climbing, sport climbing, bouldering, long days on random multipitch routes on British mountains, trips to the Alps with horrendous 3am starts, and how much I hate Scottish winter climbing as I am rubbish in the cold. Combine this with all the great friends I have made along the way and I quickly realised that everything I hear about the Everest experience is so far divorced from what I love about climbing that I haven't even thought about it as an objective since I properly started.

Given that you are just at the start of picking up climbing and mountaineering as a hobby, I think you'd get much more out of it by just trying more of it out and seeing what takes your fancy as you do it. If, after a while, you are still keen to do Everest then great; come up with a plan built on your own experiences and knowledge of how well you cope with the types of challenges you'll face and the things you need to work on.
If however, you find you enjoy other areas of climbing much more (as so many on this thread clearly do), then just persue that, and a whole world of challenging and rewarding objectives and fun (because we do this for fun!) will be opened up to you. Don't let the end objective be the thing that tells you how to enjoy a hobby that you've not really started to discover yet, and before you even know what climbing has to offer.
Post edited at 10:16

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