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Did you Rescue me from Ben Nevis on Saturday?

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Saraalbones 28 Mar 2016
If so please get in touch - I hope you all got back ok - I never got the chance to thank any of you properly - but what you did for me was literally all sorts of crazy/kind. Endless gratitude.
1
 James Beaumont 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Hi Sara,
James and Louis here, no worries! Rob and Shaun got back safely too. Mountain rescue kept us updated when we got through to them, glad to hear you're okay.

Please promise that you'll never go up a mountain dressed like that again!
Saraalbones 28 Mar 2016
In reply to James Beaumont:

Hell. No.

I was such a massive prick and I'm so sorry! I
I'm so relieved you all got back ok. Jen and crew too?

You'll be pleased to hear I'm booking myself In for a mounterneering course as soon as I get back.

(Recommends on this welcome)

Not only do I Never ever want to put myself or anyone else in that sort of situation again - I also would like to be able to help someone the way you all helped me.

You all put your own lives at risk to stay with me, and made sure I was ok and make sure that Ben Nevis wasn't Ben Never. Though it very nearly was.

I don't know what your respective local pubs are but let me know... I'd at least like to phone through and leave a drink behind the bar, having tried and failed yesterday at the Ben Nevis!

Pretty sure this is obligatory when someone saves your life right?

Hope the rest of your bank holiday passed more smoothly and with a lot less dramas!

Sarah
Lusk 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Come on then, tell us all the story!
 Yanis Nayu 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

No
21
Saraalbones 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Lusk:
I was that tit that all proper climbers talk about. The sort that arrives completely unprepared to climb a mountain. (I was dressed in shorts, Salamon speedcross, a crampon on my wrist from where it kept falling off. Only supplies were a chocolate Lindt bunny that I ate before setting off)

No ice pick/ poles/shelter any of the things that are appropriate for climbing a mountain. Just the stuff I had packed for the weekend and a stupid selfie stick.

I kind of knew I was underprepared, and didn't actually intend on getting to the top. I just sort of thought - oh I've got this far - it's not too bad - let's carry on.

And I got to the top.

It was here I met this group of guys who had been climbing up on the North Face and they said if I didn't mind waiting around for them to pack up their kit they would walk down with me.

Well, unlucky for them but bloody lucky for me I took them up on that offer.

On the descent I started feeling really ill on the descent - dizzy/drunk/ couldn't speak properly/ feel my body. And my shorts were so heavy with snow they were falling off. I didn't realise at the time but apparently these are the warning signs of hupothermia (not the shorts part obviously, but the rest)

The weather was appalling and getting worse but , while most people would just be like 'On your own luv' these guys stayed with me, gave me a bag to sit in and sacrificed their own food and water rations to give to me. James, who had the only working phone called mountain rescue to try to help. Rob and Shaun gave me their clothes so I could keep warm. They risked their lives to stay with me for over an hour in the blizzard waiting for help.

We were then joined by three other mountaineers - Jen, who lectures in mounterneering, her friend who is a policewoman and her other friend who was due to lead a trek up Ben the next day who had a group shelter tent, along with another working mobile and more supplies.

James was continually on the phone trying to get help. Both him and his friend Louis must have been so cold themselves. But they didn't leave until they knew I was going to be okay.

mountain rescue were 4-5 hours away. If it hadn't have been for meeting this other group of people We would have all been dead by the time they got to us.

Shaun carried his own bag and mine (which might as well have been filled with bricks) all the way down the mountain.

Jen walked with me to the Ben Nevis Inn at base where I was able to try to call for a lift back to where I was staying.

I don't want to sound too cringey/ creepy but all those action films are a load of rubbish. The people you see In Films don't walk half way down a mountain carrying your bag. And your soaking wet shorts.They don't try to make you laugh to keep your spirits up even though it's completely not a funny situation. They don't Help you eat dextro tablets and help you sip water because you are incapable of doing so by yourself. They don't put their lives at risk to help you even though you really don't deserve it. The people I met up the mountain that day did all of this and are real life super heroes. I honestly cannot thank them enough.

P.S I'm writing this in Sainsbury's local as it's the only place I can currently get signal on my mobile and I'm sorry if it's a bit rambling!
Post edited at 18:11
 James Beaumont 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
We are definitely glad to hear that!

From the sounds of things from mountain rescue, Jen and the others were safe too.

Haha a beer is always welcome! I can't speak for the others though
(I have the contact details for Rob and Shaun so I will pass those along, didn't manage to get the others however)

But we are just glad you are okay and that a sombre time for the mountain wasn't made worse on saturday.

I cannot overstate to the others reading this, how surreal it was to top out Good Friday Climb in a white out and find Sara dressed as she was, walking towards us, but lesson learned
Post edited at 18:47
In reply to Saraalbones:
If you made a habit of drinking real whisky instead of that other stuff, you would have been fine
Japanese Whiskey ---------------- I ask you!

Post edited at 18:23
Lusk 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Shorts on Ben Nevis?!
I don't go anywhere these days, once I've left my bed, without a pair of grade 5 Thermolactyls on, for 6 months of the year, and I'm in sunny Manchester.
 Trangia 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Well done Sara having the guts and humility to come clean on a public forum, glad you have obviously learnt your lesson, and glad it was a happy ending for all concerned.

Enjoy the mountaineering course.
 abr1966 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Good on you and those who stopped to help you! Good to hear a refreshing, honest account of your experience....hope it doesn't put you off the hills!
Lusk 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

> I kind of knew I was underprepared, and didn't actually intend on getting to the top. I just sort of thought - oh I've got this far - it's not too bad - let's carry on.

It's a good thing to be aware of, have I got enough energy to get back down safely?
I think it's fair to say that most of have staggered into the pub on our last, jelly like legs!
 Wsdconst 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Glad to hear you're ok, also well done to the guys who helped you.
 rockjedi12345 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Trangia:
Well done to all those who helped.

Sums up the spirit of the climbing and outdoor community in helping others.

Some great lesons learnt, we have all to a Lesser or greater degree had 'epics' it's from these that we learn.

Mine (well one of them) was not having a hedtorch on tryfan and having to wait to be rescued as I could not walk off.

Enjoy your course
Louislanderdeacon 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
Hey Sarah it's Louis
It's all good! I thought I was tripping balls when I first saw you!
I'm just happy you got down safe!
Just pleade never do it again!
Myself and James couldn't stop talking about it that night!

Get yourself some kit and go on a course!
I'm sure you'll smash it!

Just glad you're okay!

L
 colinakmc 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
Hey Sara, glad you got off safely. You've just learned an important rule of mountaineering, that your xperience is the sum of your near misses!
A course is a good call though, lots of good providers out there but there's a good bar on site at Glenmore Lodge...
 Snowdave 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I take my hat of to you for publicly admitting & explaining what happened.

I am not surprised that some of your rescuers thought they were "tripping" when they saw you in a white out as you were, I think I would be questioning if I had hypothermia if I was in their shoes!

You are not the first person to suffer at the hands of underestimating the UK weather & the fact that our mountains "aren't that high" attitude, & you will not be the last either.

To the rescuers, you can sleep easy at night your conscience is clear, you did what I would do, & what I hope other more experienced people would do.

I always carry a Lifesystems 2/3 man orange shelter, extra warm layer, extra gloves, first aid, headtorch, gps, compass, etc etc. I fact my mates sometimes tease me about my full 30lt pack as I have only just got it down from a bigger pack.

Anyway all safe & sound, ...just I would have not bothered calling & waiting for MRT if the casualty is walking (but disorientated) & the weather is worsening (MRT do not prioritise this as urgent compared to not walking/injured/knocked out). Basically the main point of rescuing is to not put you the rescuer in further danger otherwise thats more people who need to be rescued! Basically "Get the F*** Out of There" is the main order of the day as MTR is almost always a good 2-4hrs away, so between two of you (original rescuers) one person each side of the "victim" & walk/carry her down.

P.S. if you can't manage to get them beers, get their addresses & send them a gift voucher from a good climbing/outdoor store eg Blacks/Tiso/ellis brighams etc. I worked in a shop & have sold them for such "incidents"
27
 marsbar 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Snowdave:

Maybe its best to call MR and let them decide if its urgent or not.
3
 marsbar 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Glad you survived to tell the tale.
In reply to marsbar:

> Maybe its best to call MR and let them decide if its urgent or not.

To paraphrase a popular saying, best to call MR and be thought a fool, than not call them, get yourself killed and thus remove all doubt.

Glad it was a good outcome for all concerned.
2
Louislanderdeacon 28 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Sorry my last post was rushed, let's start again!
I'm super glad you are now warm and safe, it was quiet the surreal day filled with avalanches, poor visibility, high winds and yourself walking around on the summit!
It was a testing experience putting actual mountain survival skills in use! Even if it was only an emergency survival bag, dextrose tablets, water, afew more layers and quiet alot of huddling from the four of us!
I have to admit rob and shaun took the edge off the situation with their jokes!

Overall it was an "adventurous" day out! I'm glad you are going on a course to learn certain skills because you never know, one day the tables might turn and you can save/help someone in need!

Also massive thanks to rob and shaun for sticking with myself and James, none of us would have been able to help Sarah if we hadn't stuck together, as the avalanches would have definitely hit us!
1
 Rob N 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Hi Sarah,

Glad you were OK in the end, it was the strangest day that Sean or myself have had on the Ben by a long shot!

I think anyone that bumped into you would have done the same so we don't really deserve much credit, and besides the obvious danger of the situation the craic and the banter in the huddle was good so that was something positive.

I'm really bad for remembering the names so very sorry for that but Jen and crew were much better at handling the situation once they came along so I'll say a massive thanks to them!

@ James and Louis, no worries lads it was nice to meet ye. Sorry ye had to put up with Seans singing at the belays, in those situations where you have to either laugh or cry hes always going to choose laughing. We will post the bit of your gear we have back down to ye today.

Very glad you are OK Sarah, and best of luck in your next outing!



 joem 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Hi Sarah I wasn't involved on Saturday but I did here the story from Rob and Shaun afterwards in the CIC hut. well done for having the guts to talk about this in public while you have learnt a valuable lesson with nothing more than a scary experience to pay for it, it is worth noting that you were far from the only person on the hill woefully under prepared on Saturday lots of people out without any form of outdoor clothing some with festival ponchos as there only wet weather gear but I guess they "got away with it". Quite scary really as it was still very much winter up there.
 mrphilipoldham 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

What a heart warming story! Well done to all involved
 streapadair 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Top marks for honesty and humility, Sara, but I can't help wondering -

> a crampon on my wrist from where it kept falling off

Eh?

In reply to Saraalbones:

Great post and topic. I'm extremely glad that everybody came out of this okay.

A near miss for sure. What is it they say.....character building and one for the experience bank.

Tom
 andymac 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
Dread to think what it was like on Saturday.
I was at the summit on Friday ,and the windchill was brutal.

And I was in a pair of Montane Terras and Inov8 xtalons .and 2 bars of Milka Alpine (50p in Morrisons folks)
Shorts? And a Lindt bunny.dont think me cruel ,but I had a chuckle.
Post edited at 18:47
1
 Yanis Nayu 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> No

Christ, 11 dislikes!

To the OP - glad you're safe)
1
 carr0t 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I'm glad you are doing well and managed to get away with a scare. I am pretty sure you will be all the better for it, as I don't think you will be making that mistake again any time soon. Rather carry an extra few gram and turn back if need, than realise that youre up shit creek for not having a basic safety item or you didn't heed the weather conditions. Mountains in the UK are no joke. Others may be bigger or higher but here they are remote, isolated and a very very fickle mistress. Enjoy your course and I hope you keep going safely!
 Jamie B 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

You weren't alone - I saw all sorts heading up into the near whiteout on the Ben on Saturday and had an uneasy feeling that something was going to play out. I'm glad that when it did there were folk on hand to get a grip of things for you.

Glad you're okay - enjoy your course and future mountaineering adventures.
1
 gethin_allen 29 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Hey Sara,
I'm not able to claim any part in your rescue but having been rescued after a silly mistake on a mountain I feel I may know a little about how you feel and I'm really glad you are going to get some training/experience and get back into the hills. My little experience really shook me and I taught me a lot.
1
 tripehound 30 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
A couple of times after topping out on routes on the Ben I have come across poorly equipped people unsure of their location and have had to be escorted down. I suspect this is happening a lot, and is a bit of a hidden issue.
Post edited at 09:18
 Trangia 30 Mar 2016
In reply to tripehound:

Many years go descending the zig zags late one afternoon in early Spring (snow still lying near the top) I met an American tourist heading up dressed in T shirt, shorts and wearing sandles. For a map he had a photograph of the Ben with a dotted line showing the "easy route up" torn from a magazine, and all he was carrying was a half litre bottle of coca cola which he had finished. He wanted to know "how much further to the top?"

He wasn't cold because he was exerting himself climbing up, but he was getting tired and was tired and thirsty. We gave him some water and chocolate and managed to persuade him to turn round and descend with us, but he was unhappy because he had been "beaten" by Britain's highest mountain which he kept saying was "ONLY a little hill at just over 4000ft"! He did admit that he was very surprised at how long it had taken him to get that far and had thought he could walk to the summit and back in an "hour or two"!
1
 Jim C 30 Mar 2016
In reply to Trangia:

For me it was two German tourists, stuck on the Zig Zags in the dark, unable to move as they did not have head torches, and were unsure where the path edges were.
They were unfit, had unsuitable clothing/shoes, and when they got down, they did know even where their car was (and had very little English)

By luck whilst it was cold, it was not freezing or raining, otherwise the outcome might have been quite different.

In reply to Saraalbones:


We need to be careful when advocating going on a course, to learn outdoor skills.
A lot can be learn from even a few hours and more from a longer duration.
However I think that some of the skills to survive can only be found from ourselves, no one can tell us if we will improve or worsen in the day, and it is ourselves only who can make this judgment. for instance all the tuition in the world can not tell us if we are fit to carry on and climb, walk, run, ski, another top. We can only asses this because we have learnt to read ourselves, and our bodies. This can only come with experience, and not from a week at Glen moor loge

So if I can a word of caution, go on a course, it can help you to sort things out and survive when it has gone wrong, it will aware you to some of the pitfalls.

Importantly. Much more importantly is the skill of knowing ourselves well enough not to get into a pickle in the first place.
but when we are in a pickle, with frozen hands and jammed rope, or lost with a wet map and little light, it is only us that can keep a cool head and remember what we did learn on the course, in the hope of putting it to good use.

so yes go on learn learn learn but it is not any type of substitute to experience, so please don't think you know it all!

as a PS. I see that one mobile phone was working in the Nevis case, whistles do not brake.. yes the sound comes from everywhere and in this case it was probably not appropriate, but its one thing we should not omit to carry.
I say this more in response to a post on ukc about what to carry [ my sack is bigger than yours ] so few mention whistles and one even questions if it was really necessary ----------- it is carry it.

11
 t__her6 30 Mar 2016

When reading this I did think, how long till the rubbish media see this then publish a story due to recent events? Now found here : http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-shorts-trainers-rescued-summit-7655266#gc8yJ6S...
Post edited at 14:35
In reply to Name Changed 34:

> We need to be careful when advocating going on a course, to learn outdoor skills.

Really? It's hard to think of any advice that would be less controversial.
3
In reply to planetmarshall:
try and look at things in the round,


edit
unlike the sensational press as in the two posts just
Post edited at 14:55
 moffatross 30 Mar 2016
 tony 30 Mar 2016
In reply to moffatross:

I love the way the Telegraph story has a stock photo of a load of people at a trig point, almost all of them wearing shorts.
 gethin_allen 30 Mar 2016
In reply to t__her6:

It totally pisses me of when supposed journalists from supposedly respected publications just lift sh1t from forums and publish it as if they've done the interview.
Total wankers the lot of them.
 t__her6 30 Mar 2016
In reply to gethin_allen:

I totally agree!
 Jamie B 30 Mar 2016
In reply to tripehound:

> A couple of times after topping out on routes on the Ben I have come across poorly equipped people unsure of their location and have had to be escorted down. I suspect this is happening a lot, and is a bit of a hidden issue.

It is indeed happening a lot. Two fatalities in recent years and a number of injuries.

In reply to Jamie B:

From experience I've always understood this happened. Is it getting more frequent?

I don't have recent experience hence the question.
1
 Sir Chasm 30 Mar 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

> Really? It's hard to think of any advice that would be less controversial.

Really? You needed a course to teach you to dress up warm when it's cold outside?
P.s. I am obviously posting this from beyond the grave.
2
hikerpike 30 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
I rescued 3 women from that mountain>

All over 50 , the least petrified was about 60(nice,made sense), others early 50's(they actually phoned mountain rescue once certainly ,I told them to get down slowly but surely) on some kind of 3 peak(uk) challenge(Snowdonia,Scafell Pike etc). They vowed never do do it/this again.

Put it in perspective. I jogged up there in 2hrs 15mins. I returned in about 9hrs and a half at least .It was well about midnight when i had returned(moonlight) and my car would'nt start- some kind norwegian or germans jumpleaded it.The nearby v warm hostel put me up for free and the v compassionate managers cooked me a free meal after sharing this with them
. They had called the bus for them and I got no thanks whatsoever!!!!
Post edited at 21:43
 Rich W Parker 30 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

It's well worth bearing in mind that journalists scan these pages - when you're relating an incident, your own or someone else's. Needless to say I have a pretty low opinion..

On another note, earlier this winter myself and two clients walked across the plateau from Carn Dearg to bag the summit, just past MacLean's Steep three blokes clad in hoodies, jeans, converse trainers, loads of rime and a Morrison's carrier between the three gleefully told us "not long to go now!" Cheers lads.....
At least they had beards.
 graeme jackson 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

you got a mention on radio 4 this morning. They seemed less than complimentary.
 Paul Guerin 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Have a look at the courses on offer at Plas Y Brenin: http://www.pyb.co.uk/
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> and the telegraph..

The Independent is even worse, even Ben Nevis has got lost in their story.

"She was found by chance while lost on the North Face of the 4,400ft peak, in Scotland's Cairngorms, where several climbers have been killed in recent months."
 Ridge 31 Mar 2016
In reply to graeme jackson:

R4 were reviewing the Sun. Unfortunately the journos seem to have picked up on this thread.
 Lucy Wallace 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Such a shame that a heartfelt and honest post has lead to you being subjected to trial by media.

You are brave for admitting your error and thoughtful for thanking your rescuers. I really hope you do go on that course and continue to enjoy the mountains.

Hopefully some good will come of the negative publicity and others will think twice about heading out under equipped. Even and especially the most experienced people here will know that experience is gained from surviving our mistakes. We've all bitten off more than we can chew at some point. A similar mistake in winter on Snowdon 20 years ago prompted me to go on a course at Glenmore Lodge. Now mountains are my job!
3
 JimR 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Respect to Sara for having posted this. It is easy to see how a very fit person unfamiliar with mountains and winter mountain conditions could have got into this pickle. OTOH when I used to do a bit of mountain running I was quite used to bearded gentlemen in big boots,breeches and towering rucksacs shouting at me for being an idiot as I ran past in shorts,TShirt and running shoes.
 petestack 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Snoweider:

> Such a shame that a heartfelt and honest post has lead to you being subjected to trial by media.

Spot-on! The way the press have descended en masse on this one strikes me as a new low in forum raiding. It would never have made the news but for this thread, and there's no way you deserved what they're throwing at you now!
 DalesClimber 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I agree that it's a shame that the media has treated you like this. Yes, you cocked up spectacularly, but you've admitted your mistake and gone out of your way to publicly thank those who helped, which is brave.

You're not unusual for getting out of your depth on Ben Nevis in winter. I've seen lots of others similarly badly equipped - you weren't the first and won't be the last. But you are unusual in publicly admitting to it and learning from it, so fair play to you!

Who hasn't made a mistake in the mountains that could have turned serious?

I'm glad you're looking into courses, and that this hasn't put you off. You might want to look at local mountaineering clubs too - they can be a good way of pairing up with people with the appropriate skills.
1
 Only a hill 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Just wanted to add my admiration for you in starting this conversation here. So very different to the victim-blaming culture of the media.
1
In reply to Saraalbones:

Not sure if it has been said earlier but...
http://news.sky.com/story/1670028/ben-nevis-rescue-for-woman-in-shorts
 Offwidth 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Snoweider:

It may be a shame but it was almost inevitable, the press do scan these pages and it has a good rubbernecking potential that sells.. I've rescued folk, pursuaded some to turn back on the zigzags and been ignored by people in completely unsuitable clothing. Thing is, its not at all clear to the average tourist that a big 'draw' like the the highest UK mountain is that cold or navigationally tricky with serious danger in all sides. The speed of onset of hypothermia when one stops walking on the summit in insufficient clothing, dehydrated and tired will be completely unexpected to most.

The idea that courses are pointless and we need to listen more to ourselves is dangerous mumbu jumbo. Courses are not magic bullets of safety but they are the fastest way to get started safely for those without experienced pals who can help.
1
 mysterion 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

F*ck the media. I like your attitude Sara. With that attitude and now your experience of hypothermia and being lost in a whiteout (experience no mountaineering course can provide) you have all the makings of a fine mountaineer. See you around.
1
 Dauphin 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

In the Daily Wail this morning. Doesn't exactly convey the conviviality and camaraderie expressed here by your rescuers.

Good luck in yr future mountain endeavours.

D
 Pina 31 Mar 2016
In reply to stucknortherner:

Some quality reporting. Ben Nevis, that large Cairngorms mountain....
 MonkeyPuzzle 31 Mar 2016
In reply to petestack:

Knowing that The Sun could be reading this, I'd like to remind them, in case they'd forgotten, that they are a polyp in the colon of humanity and should atone for their sins by crawling naked to the summit of Ben Nevis. Returning optional.
1
 wercat 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

A common saying in mountaineering about experienced climbers goes somenthing like "Experience is just the sum of all the near misses we've had". In other words we learn by making sometimes serious mistakes. Obviously you've made a splendid and extreme start in this respect but you'll find the mountains a great place to make further mistakes in - just make sure they are on a smaller scale! Good luck with learning the skills and report back your adventures!

Just look for and pay heed to advice before planning any big ones!


I heard someone from RAF mountain rescue once tell us "Any Landing you walk away from is a good one".
 DalesClimber 31 Mar 2016
In reply to wercat:

"Experience is the sum of your cock ups"

It's very true.
1
 toad 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

"most read" article on the Guardian website this morning, and a really shoddy piece of journalism/ "repeating stuff they've read on the internet without any credit" it is too. That paper has really gone downhill, though in fairness it's just repeating a Press Association (don't mention the Nazis) piece.
 Kevin Woods 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Disappointed to see the media fluff that's built up around this. Lazy journalism, trawling forums, finding a story that isn't really a story. Yeah, screw em. Your attitude is awesome and anybody that knows a damn about mountaineering has said so.
 mypyrex 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

As a signed up UKC Old Fart I'd just like to add that I'm glad your experience had a happy outcome.

Furthermore your courage in admitting and openly commenting on your errors is highly commendable. If you do take up mountaineering, in whatever form, this approach will stand you in good stead.

Having friends in various MR teams I am only too aware that some who are rescued seem to take such resources for granted, ignoring the fact that civilian MRTs are manned by volunteers. Some adopt the attitude that "So what, I've paid my taxes"!

I wish you well.
 Sime64 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Well it seems your story has been picked up by the mainstream media and you are getting a lot of flak. And only because you so honestly fessed up to what a ridiculous thing you did. Full credit to you for facing the music and learning from your mistakes.
 Siward 31 Mar 2016
In reply to toad:

I agree, all of the 'quality' newspapers seem to have gone down the same route of repeating any old rubbish to satisfy the continual 24 hour news cycle. The Independent (which it ain't) is no better. I think UKC has probably become the place for informed comment these days...


And Sara, now you're famous, why not capitalise on it? Time for your autobiography perhaps...
 Simon Caldwell 31 Mar 2016
All the press reports seem to have taken Sara's entire post and printed it with just a spot of editing for the rude words. Does putting quotes around it mean they can get away without payment or even acknowledgement of the source?
 mypyrex 31 Mar 2016
I'm surprised the Mail haven't had their teeth into this one. They usually love this sort of thing and fostering comments from readers like "mountaineering should be banned".
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

has UKC got copy right on it???????????


Its all the fault of that phone hacking, if they still did that we would be left alone;

phone hacking has stooped right?
 climbwhenready 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Siward:

Sara, you did the right thing.

Newspapers, why not blast all the people who get into a lot more trouble and don't 'fess up?

(Don't take this the wrong way, but I bet this wouldn't be running with quite so much gusto if Sara was a fat bloke from Hull)
1
 toad 31 Mar 2016
In reply to mypyrex:
> I'm surprised the Mail haven't had their teeth into this one. They usually love this sort of thing and fostering comments from readers like "mountaineering should be banned".

There's a link to the Mail story from the Guardian (who are using AP copy, anyway). I haven't the courage to follow it and go "below the line"
KevinD 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Sime64:

> Full credit to you for facing the music and learning from your mistakes.

I guess must be a slow news day. Does seem a rather pointless story for the media. Someone underestimates the danger but seems to learn from it and thanks helpers.
If it was someone underestimates the challenge but instead of learning tries again the next week this time with two chocolate bunnies but no other improvements then I could see the reason to give flak.
 Rob Naylor 31 Mar 2016
In reply to mypyrex:

> I'm surprised the Mail haven't had their teeth into this one. They usually love this sort of thing and fostering comments from readers like "mountaineering should be banned".

They have! A friend sent me a link. The comments range from your anticipated "mountaineering should be banned" to "An ice axe on Ben Nevis? I've been up there loads of times and a decent pair of boots is all you need."!!!

I'll add my kudos to Sara for originally posting on this forum, and I'll add my denigration to the slimeball lazy journalists who appropriated virtually her entire post, added some largely inaccurate tripe and then passed it off as their own work.
1
 veteye 31 Mar 2016
In reply to climbwhenready:

Fat bloke from Hull wouldn't be able to get into the shorts,but would have more lipid insulation(blubber) so be slightly less hypothermic.(Plus he would not likely have got beyond the Red Burn)
1
In reply to KevinD:

This just got me wondering whether the one of the guys who carried a piano up the Ben roughly 30 yrs ago and ended up being helicoptered off the mountain was the same person who more recently carried a bench to the summit.
 Shani 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Name Changed 34:
> has UKC got copy right on it???????????

The offshore-owned and creepily child-obsessed Daily Fail doesn't need reporters any more - just trawl the internet for stories about a 'young girls'. The comments are UKIPingly brilliant:

dailym.ai/1MDwifG
Post edited at 11:10
1
 Chris the Tall 31 Mar 2016
In reply to toad:

> That paper has really gone downhill, though in fairness it's just repeating a Press Association (don't mention the Nazis) piece.

Slightly off at a tangent but you seem to be getting confused between the Press Association (reuters style news agency used and co-owned by all the British papers), Associated Press (US company who had dodgy dealings with the Nazis) and possibly Associated Newspapers (former name of Daily Mail umbrella group, also fond of Nazis).

1
 toad 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Bugger, indeed I am. But surely I'm following a great British newspaper tradition in getting my facts confused? I'll post an apology in a couple of months on an unrelated thread about tapirs, surely that will cover it?
 cmgcmg 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Sarah

For all the grief this episode may have brought you, the fact that it has made the press may go on to prevent someone making a similar mistake and the end result being tragic.

Thank you for having the courage to see the experience through and repaying your debt to the mountaineering community. Everyone out there who is calling you a dick now knows a bit more about the risks of venturing out ill equipped and ill informed.

You may have turned your errors in judgment into a life or two saved or at best a few people less inconvenienced by having to assist someone and sacrifice their day.

 Simon Caldwell 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Name Changed 34:

> has UKC got copy right on it?

I don't know, but if they don't then presumably Sara does.
 seankenny 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
> All the press reports seem to have taken Sara's entire post and printed it with just a spot of editing for the rude words. Does putting quotes around it mean they can get away without payment or even acknowledgement of the source?

Surely paying people for quotes would be chequebook journalism of the worst kind?!
Post edited at 11:59
1
In reply to Saraalbones:

I think the source of the story is fine and dandy, it's a public forum after all. The few press stories I read were clearly from a syndicated source so repetitive by nature, but the tone of the original doesn't at all reflect the gracious and humble nature of Sara's original post and the supportive nature of most comments. That's a shame. All the ingredients for the implied mockery 'a selfie stick!', 'shorts!', 'Brighton!' were all supplied with a dose of humour from our victim. The horror of the comments section is a predictable ragtag of the usual reactions.

We've all done dumb things, I know I have. It's only by doing this that we remember to carry poles and an ice pick in the future.
Claire Starkey 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Sara hi,
Me, Jen and Louis got back fine after a well earned meal in the pub.
Glad you are ok and that you got to where you needed to be that night after you left the pub, we were worried about you. I'm also really glad to hear you have taken on board what we said on the hill that night, sorry if we were harsh at the time but really felt you had dodged a bullet...the weather that night would not have been survivable in what you had with you. Well done you for having the humility to say so.
Have fun safely on that mountaineering course...

Take care, Claire x
Claire Starkey 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Louislanderdeacon:

Hey Louis, did you guys get all your kit from the pub OK?
 Simon Caldwell 31 Mar 2016
In reply to seankenny:

> Surely paying people for quotes would be chequebook journalism of the worst kind

Quotes is one thing, this is pretty much her entire post.

The least I'd have expected would be an acknowledgement that they took everything from UKC. But maybe they were worried people might come here and get a more nuanced approach.
 seankenny 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> Quotes is one thing, this is pretty much her entire post.

But if the quote was shorter, surely it'd be even *less* nuanced?!

> The least I'd have expected would be an acknowledgement that they took everything from UKC.

It's not good to see how laws and sausages are made either.

3
 Milesy 31 Mar 2016
Well done on sticking your hand up.

Most climbers don't think like the media. If they try and get your story or make it out as if they want to give your side, I would tell them to feck off. They'll likely misquote you or manipulate your words.

Take care.
 mag_to_grid 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Sara,

You wont be the first and wont be the last to make the mistakes you did, glad to hear you are ok and that your aiders are too.

Well done for having the guts to write the post, I am sure the majority of our community appreciate it.

Oh and enjoy your future mountaineering experiences.

John
Claire Starkey 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Rob N:

Hey Rob,
Jen, Louis and I eventually got to the pub at just after 9, just in time to order some food!! Phew. did you guys get your kit OK? No need to thank us, cant imagine what it must have been like seeing Sara appear like that on the top having already had the day you had.

Enjoy ur adventures
Claire
 Nevis-the-cat 31 Mar 2016

Sara

It took a lot of courage and humility to post your thread and thank your rescuers, and admit a mistake.

It's garnered a great deal of respect on the forum.

Make sure you get out into the hills and build up your experience- keep your pecker up and in a couple of years you'll be leading routes up the Ben.

Tiddles

Nev
 lummox 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

What Nevis said.

But be careful to avoid the objective dangers of the Grog n Gruel..
 JimboWizbo 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Plas y Brenin will have some ideal courses.
1
Simon_Sheff 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

> I've rescued folk, pursuaded some to turn back on the zigzags and been ignored by people in completely unsuitable clothing. Thing is, its not at all clear to the average tourist that a big 'draw' like the the highest UK mountain is that cold or navigationally tricky with serious danger in all sides. The speed of onset of hypothermia when one stops walking on the summit in insufficient clothing, dehydrated and tired will be completely unexpected to most.

The problem is we're not all round hero's like you

14
 k.shark 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I think you should persuade the papers to make a donation to mountain rescue for using your story to sell papers
Don't worry about your mistake as we have all made some bad judgements in our lives , and as a community there are not many that wouldn't help someone in need .
In reply to Nevis-the-cat:

> Make sure you get out into the hills and build up your experience- keep your pecker up and in a couple of years you'll be leading routes up the Ben.

Oh dear. Tomorrow's Sun headline: "Mountain Madness Sarah Possesses Pecker, said mountaineer N. Cat, yesterday".
 Tom Guitarist 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Not sure if there are any stw users on here (must be a few!) but I'd urge people to read the link below before savaging her. (Not that too many have......)

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stupid-or-what
 Jim Nevill 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

It occurs to me that as the press read this forum, and tomorrow is April Fool's Day, well..... we wouldn't, would we?

More seriously, like the great majority I admire your honest and open response. Also that you haven't made excuses - I suspect that you have a lot more fitness and resolve than the majority who get in similar trouble on the Ben . Good luck with the next hill. Have you thought of joining a club? Some are very welcoming and helpful.
In reply to mysterion:

> F*ck the media. I like your attitude Sara. With that attitude and now your experience of hypothermia and being lost in a whiteout (experience no mountaineering course can provide) you have all the makings of a fine mountaineer. See you around.

This. We've all done it, we've mostly got away with it and we've mostly avoided the press.

A friend of mine fell through the cornice near the top of Aonach Beag (almost 30 years ago) in horrendous weather. We sat all day in the Ft Bill cop shop waiting to be told they'd found his body. At about 8pm he limped in. He'd fallen down a gully without hitting anything and then walked out to Spean Bridge and hitched a lift. We gave a lot of press interviews and I bought all the papers the next day. All were good except one, who had made us look like idiots and bent Donald Watt's words to make it sound like he wished that we'd all died for being such idiots. "When we heard he had survived and walked out under his own steam we were outraged."
I can't recall which paper, it was either the Mail or Express, the Jeremy Hunts.

 Shani 31 Mar 2016
In reply to k.shark:

> I think you should persuade the papers to make a donation to mountain rescue for using your story to sell papers

I think this is a great idea. Is there a way we could get it trending on social media? Should we start a separate thrrad and share it on FB and Twitter etc...?

I'd love to see aggressive tax avoiders like Rothermere actually coughing up at some point for this story.
 Jamie B 31 Mar 2016
In reply to L'Eeyore:
Myself and every other instructor I know who goes on Ben Nevis regularly can expect to spend the latter part of the winter season meeting confused/ill-equipped walkers, being asked for navigational guidance, attempting to dissuade them from going higher and on occasion materially assisting teams and individuals. It's a fact of life on the mountain, but not a good one.
Post edited at 18:11
 andymac 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I don't believe that the press snoop about on random forums ,trying to sniff out a story.

Anyway,has anyone else been asked to assist (hush hush ) on the Ben tomorrow ?

Word is that Top Gear are doing something with a very ,very old car.and a helicopter.

All shall be revealed at The Inn
In reply to andymac:

> All shall be revealed at The Inn

Is that where Bear Grylls is staying?
1
 andymac 31 Mar 2016
In reply to biped:

Somebody else mentioned he was in the area.cant see what he has to to with Top Gear.

Anyway ,might get his autograph.
In reply to andymac:

Right. I assumed that the Top Gear rumour was a press baiting April fool yarn. I guess they will be trying to drive up and do a doughnut round the shelter. No idea about Bare Girls. Maybe he's looking for a raw fish supplier.
In reply to Saraalbones:

Another post to express respect to you for the way you've handled this. Ignore the press, you've got the support of virtually the whole of ukc on this.

This has to be the 'like' button's finest hour too- 154 likes for one of your posts, and counting, compared to zero dislikes. That just about sums it up...

Best wishes

Gregor
 mypyrex 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Jim Nevill:

> It occurs to me that as the press read this forum, and tomorrow is April Fool's Day, well..... we wouldn't, would we?

Are we going to get started on it? Ideas anyone?
 barbeg 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Jamie B:

Hi Jamie,

Just the usual for this time of year...Ascending Ben Wyvis today with clients.....14 degrees in the car park........ -4 degrees on the ridge....snow from 650m....hellish usual wind chill on Wyvis......3 guys in trainers, jeans and street jackets on the way up at 3.15pm as we were heading down.....

You get fed up sometimes....

Respect to Sara...getting it wrong is a major step to becoming experienced.

ANdy
 Shani 31 Mar 2016
In reply to mypyrex:

Take your pick;

"Mount Snowdon cafe to serve all-halal food after EU ruling!"
"Big Ben: Climbers' Disgust as porn film shot in summit shelter. "
 Jamie B 31 Mar 2016
In reply to barbeg:


> Just the usual for this time of year...Ascending Ben Wyvis today with clients.....14 degrees in the car park........ -4 degrees on the ridge....snow from 650m....hellish usual wind chill on Wyvis......3 guys in trainers, jeans and street jackets on the way up at 3.15pm as we were heading down.....
> You get fed up sometimes....

I try not to - they're just lacking a frame of reference. I suspect that the vast majority give themselves a wee scare, get harmlessly stretched/stressed, learn a lesson and retreat without incident. But by sheer weight of numbers plus its iconic status there is virtual certainty that people will get hurt/killed on the Ben. Nothing is being done to dissuade them and I feel that is a failure.


 abr1966 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Shani

> "Big Ben: Climbers' Disgust as porn film shot in summit shelter. "

That's for another thread....who's had their leg over on Ben Nevis! I have in the winter of 1983!!! ;-)
 mypyrex 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Shani:

> Take your pick;

> "Mount Snowdon cafe to serve all-halal food after EU ruling!"
I suggest, then:

Hikers are furious that the management of the ever popular five star cafe on the summit of Mount Snowdon have said that they will comply with a politically correct EU directive insisting that only halal food is served. In a further move to placate the Brussels bureaucrats the management have said that they will no longer sell alcoholic beverages. A pint of beer on the lofty summit of Mount Snowdon currently costs £4.75. Evan Shufflebottom, the manager who lives in a £650,000 house in the nearby city of Llanbers....
(continue as appropriate)

 Shani 31 Mar 2016
In reply to abr1966:

> In reply to Shani

> That's for another thread....who's had their leg over on Ben Nevis! I have in the winter of 1983!!! ;-)

We're you soloing? ;)
 abr1966 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Shani:

Very good! But no !!
 Shani 31 Mar 2016
In reply to mypyrex:

> Hikers are furious that the management of the ever popular five star cafe on the summit of Mount Snowdon have said that they will comply with a politically correct EU directive insisting that only halal food is served. In a further move to placate the Brussels bureaucrats the management have said that they will no longer sell alcoholic beverages. A pint of beer on the lofty summit of Mount Snowdon currently costs £4.75. Evan Shufflebottom, the manager who lives in a £650,000 house in the nearby city of Llanbers....

> (continue as appropriate)

Do you want to kick it off tomorrow morning as a new thread? We could do with assistance from a Welsh speaker to give it a sense of authenticity and post something in Welsh. We could also imply approval from Corbyn etc...
KevinD 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Shani:

need to be in the pub first I think before venturing out fully formed.
 Baldrick 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Initially, on hearing about "someone" on the Ben in shorts, I was gobsmacked. Having read your post, I can completely see how you ended up there. Yes you were a bit foolish (I mean that nicely) just as I and many others have been in the past. Experience is what you get after you needed it, and it certainly looks like you gained a lot of experience from this one.

Thanks for the story. Enjoy getting used to the hills properly. Experiencing winter conditions with the right gear on is brilliant 😊

 Jim Fraser 31 Mar 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Well done Sara for telling us your story.

It's a shame that the press have been so incompetent in capturing the essence of what really happened. I'm afraid 'Ordinary British mountaineers are amazing people' just doesn't hack it as a headline!

1
 EcoClimber 01 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
Hi Sara. Thanks for posting. We were on the summit plateau on Saturday afternoon as well. But as it was a whiteout we didn't see anyone else. We head all about you from Rob & Shaun later in the CIC hut.
It's good that you have told your story so that others will learn from your experience.
Try to extract something from the media for ridiculing you. Perhaps they will pay for a week's residential course at Plastic Bread Bin near Snowdon. They do great outdoor education courses.

 Morgan Woods 01 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

How's your selfie stick?
5
 Deleted bagger 01 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Full marks for holding your hand up. It couldn't have been easy.

If you've never come close to making a major error of judgement or indeed actually cocked up big style on the hill, you've never been out.

Hope your next hill day is less eventual.
 csambrook 01 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Well done for posting this. I too have great respect for you, we've all done silly things and got away with it. Many of us have been there and had the opportunity to help others when they've made silly mistakes and I'm sure every one of the readers of these forums would do their best to help someone in your situation.

One thought though, courses are great fun and the knowledge you gain makes you much safer and more proficient but in my experience the times I've done the silliest things are not on the planned trips where I've used my knowledge and been sure to be well equipped but on the unplanned spur-of-the-moment side trips where I've thought I'd "just have a little look up here" or "follow this signpost, I'm sure it'll get us there". From your description it sounds as if this applies to you too.
 Simon Caldwell 02 Apr 2016
In reply to csambrook:

Sadly the level of abuse she's had after this post (not here, but on Facebook and all the newspaper sites that have stolen the story) is such that she's almost certainly not reading this any more and will have missed much of the supportive replies she's received.
 moffatross 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Yes, the ITV FB comments are pretty horrible. Some stupid ones too e.g. "Not even wearing sensible shoes". I believe the footwear was exactly what most of us would use for running up a mountain.

It's a shame too that someone in Lochaber Mountain Rescue decided to issue their scathing comments to the press about the person who was 'rescued' as it only feeds the frenzy of judgemental couch potatoes. I get the impression that LMRT have adopted a policy of being routinely publicly judgemental every time they perceive a mistake has been made in a rescue in which they've been involved but I think it's wrong of them to be so harsh when their only involvement was taking a phone call.

3
 Snowdave 02 Apr 2016
In reply to moffatross:

> It's a shame too that someone in Lochaber Mountain Rescue decided to issue their scathing comments to the press about the person who was 'rescued' as it only feeds the frenzy of judgemental couch potatoes. I get the impression that LMRT have adopted a policy of being routinely publicly judgemental every time they perceive a mistake has been made in a rescue in which they've been involved but I think it's wrong of them to be so harsh when their only involvement was taking a phone call.

Agreed to an extent. However...

Back in the mid/late 80's I was on some organised guided mountaineering walks in Snowdonia with the guide being a member of Snowdon MRT. He carried his big radio with him in an even bigger fully equipped rucsac. My memories of him are him stopping people who he thought were wearing wrong footwear, no rucsac etc, etc...loads of people getting the train up Snowdon & deciding to walk down the "escalator" , men in white trainers, women in high heels etc...

One day he was listening into a shout on the radio which I believe involved a school group who had got stuck on a ridge/gully & the teacher was not fully equipped, can't remember exact details, but basically not properly set out...unfortunately one of the SMRT members slipped & fell to his death whilst trying to rescue this lot...

To say it affected this guide is an understatement...every person who he saw (was with him a further week) that was not wearing correct gear REALLY got it in the neck....

I think that with more people "having a go" at doing stuff which is well out of their capabilities/equipment & the advent of the "look at me" blogs/FB selfies, people relying on the phone for the MRT to "pick me up because I am tired" attitude...I am amazed that they have only just started to publically be more vocal ....

These people put THEIR lives & their TIME on the line for FREE to rescue YOU....would you do the same to rescue you for being a total muppet?
13
 petestack 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Snowdave:

> every person who he saw (was with him a further week) that was not wearing correct gear REALLY got it in the neck....

Which must have really bugged anyone justifiably wearing white trainers and carrying no rucksack?

> would you do the same to rescue you for being a total muppet?

Yes.

 Jim C 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I think you are right, she probably is not reading this, which is a pity as there is support for her on here.

I would like to think somewhere like Glenmore lodge might pick this up , and offer her a free course. ( if not I would be happy to make a donation towards her fee, as I'm sure others would too)
Survive1 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:
Anyone can get caught out by the weather.
Post edited at 19:59
3
 moffatross 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Snowdave:

Actually, I think if MRTs are to be publicly judgemental, it would be appropriate if they were publicly judgemental in all circumstances. If we extend the 'every incident is preventable' stance of the police, in which there are no 'road traffic accidents', only preventable near misses, injuries and fatalities, and parallel it with mountain activities, by extension, every search and/or rescue should be judged, and the errors made should be publicly scolded. Because an individual (or group) is well equipped, highly experienced and very skilled, if they need rescuing, it's still every bit their fault. And I know that a story about skilled and experienced mountaineers needing rescuing because of some mistake, equipment failure, lack of contingency planning or whatever isn't going to make such good clickbait for the self-righteous as silly English person wearing shorts and trainers needs escorting off Britain's highest mountain, but it would actually be more valuable to most of us here don't you think ?

But most importantly, as you will be aware, no member of a MRT was involved in a search/rescue in this case and though I appreciate that rescue stories served up with a scolding from a MRT can help prevent other people making the same mistakes, if a MRT is not directly involved, I don't think it's their place to comment. That's just how I feel, but I really can appreciate why others may have differing opinions.

A long response I know, really just examining the logic behind some of the comments. I certainly don't want be critical of any of the UK's MRTs search/rescue activities nor the commitment of the volunteers.
1
 Hardonicus 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Snowdave:
MR are volunteers, not police on the hills. They should be advising, not enforcing or giving people it 'in the neck'. Nothing in that statement means we shouldn't be extremely grateful for the work they do BTW.

Muppetry is a spectrum of activity.
Post edited at 20:26
1
 smithaldo 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Hardonicus:

I would argue that 'muppetry' is a function of the snobbery of people who think they know what they are doing, but aren't actually that good, and want to belittle people who are trying to get experience at what the snobby people are mediocre at.
1
hikerpike 02 Apr 2016
In reply to moffatross:
Who really cares what anyone says about you? You are famous for a few weeks and then you are still alive.

That's always the last laugh.You got away it and you are extremely thankful and grateful. Anyone that writes on FB for instance "I bet she's gonna make lot money out of this" on top of it has dummy written on their forehead.

> Yes, the ITV FB comments are pretty horrible. Some stupid ones too e.g. "Not even wearing sensible shoes". I believe the footwear was exactly what most of us would use for running up a mountain.

> It's a shame too that someone in Lochaber Mountain Rescue decided to issue their scathing comments to the press about the person who was 'rescued' as it only feeds the frenzy of judgemental couch potatoes. I get the impression that LMRT have adopted a policy of being routinely publicly judgemental every time they perceive a mistake has been made in a rescue in which they've been involved but I think it's wrong of them to be so harsh when their only involvement was taking a phone call.

Perhaps that phone call saved their life.And when honest reporting might save a life potentially by better informing the public that is infintely better than saying they had no idea or coming down in a body bag.

No harm in having a little advice or identification of flaws and mistakes made.

If my colleague slipped whilst attempting to rescue some people and STV then contacted me for information, I might not hesitate in assisting in defining the kind of muppetry involved.

If they're dead then it's not really entirely fair to speak of the dead if they are not there to explain what they think happened.

If I am still alive they can slag me all they like.I'll still be here next week reading those commments.I'm not in jail . I've not been prosecuted for negligence or some responsibility/ i.e blame.

P.S. - These people are often risking their lives in the worst conditions imaginable to rescue you as SnowDave said..And they probably don't get that much thanks for it.You might just be more than a little weary and annoyed if at 6am the start of your shift you already know yet another person probably has just made the same mistake.Criticising a MRT somehow does'nt sound right or fair or proper esp. if it just a comment they may have made to a paper about say how poorly equipped a person was.
Post edited at 22:17
12
 Jim Fraser 02 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

The constitutional purposes of Scottish Mountain Rescue do not include mountain safety and its promotion. The reason for this is that others have that constitutional purpose. However, the constitutional powers include "to promote safe practice in the Scottish mountains" and clearly the creation of good rescue statistics is the main element of that for SMR. These are the reasons that statements on these matters by mountain rescue teams in Scotland tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

Individual members (teams) may have different constitutional purposes.

The Mountaineering Council of Scotland has as part of its objects "to foster, encourage, promote and develop relevant knowledge, safety practices, skills and standards amongst those who participate in or afford support for Mountaineering" and the MCofS Mountain Safety Advisor is a principal conduit for that effort.

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/
 moffatross 03 Apr 2016
In reply to hikerpike:
> " when honest reporting might save a life potentially by better informing the public that is infintely better than saying they had no idea or coming down in a body bag."<

I wasn't questioning that at all, and I said as much myself in my reply to snowdave. But I thought the MRT's scathing quote for the press including the words 'reckless', 'irresponsible' and 'ridiculous', was inappropriate under the circumstances. I'm not going to dig up muck but we will all be aware of recent rescues involving well equipped and experienced groups (let's just say people like us) that made errors of judgement, and had happy outcomes, but no criticisms made and certainly no scathing words for the press. And contrary to snowdave's supposition that people venturing up mountains in shorts and trainers is a new phenomenon spurred on by FB and social media attention seeking, on my first trek up Ben Nevis about 30 years ago in the Easter holidays I saw several Bermuda short and t-shirt dressed folk on the summit (now that's a proper sign of the times :-P ) and several much better dressed dogs.
Post edited at 23:22
2
hikerpike 03 Apr 2016
In reply to moffatross:
> I wasn't questioning that at all, and I said as much myself in my reply to snowdave. But I thought the MRT's scathing quote for the press including the words 'reckless', 'irresponsible' and 'ridiculous', was inappropriate under the circumstances.

Well it sounds like you think this "scathing" quote was conclusive. I'm not saying it isn't but you know that the papers or the media will twist things around and may say any old crap in order to sell papers.The MRT surely should be a more reliable source of information than the papers as you know they were up there and there is nothing in it for them to not tell the truth. The papers just need a sensationalist story.There is nothing in it for them if you are dead or alive- if anything you are better off dead for them- to be cold and calculating about it.

I know from experience that I was in the papers, and my guess is someone contacted the papers in an attempt to smear me.They were not contacted by the media- but the informant shallwe say is my guess...The reason I say that is because it happened in the sticks where nothing happens in a small ragmag and they may exaggerate be hyperbloic with the truth ,take your comments out of context or lie/exaggerate to spin an interesting yarn or two.. I only found out because an old mate in TkkMaxx said he saw me in the papers. I was like 'What!!!?" Also this is a wetdream for journalists as they do not need to investigate their story- no work involved!! They are relying on someone else to report it hearsay third-hand..At this point their objectivity is compromised.My trust in papers certainly went down after this in that respect..And it made me question all media more but I am no dummy/fool anyway.

I know there are sometimes protocols between the police and the emergency services and the media for releasing information that may still be under investigation.Say it might be a sensitive trial where they do no wish to say sway the jury or spoil proper and fair judicial process or a death whose causes are still not conclusively reported or "officially" verified- i.e reported as such So you must consider all the motives of the people involved in said incident.What is in it for them? Is it to bump themselves up or make their job easier or a bit both? The type of people that read the Daily Mail don't have a head for complexity and journalists know that.They want the knee-jerk reaction. They want to see someone's mugshot because that sells- a criminal that maybe looks like a criminal etc.- human drama, inuendo, the juice, sensationalism.


> I'm not going to dig up muck but we will all be aware of recent rescues involving well equipped and experienced groups (let's just say people like us) that made errors of judgement, and had happy outcomes, but no criticisms made and certainly no scathing words for the press. And contrary to snowdave's supposition that people venturing up mountains in shorts and trainers is a new phenomenon spurred on by FB and social media attention seeking, on my first trek up Ben Nevis about 30 years ago in the Easter holidays I saw several Bermuda short and t-shirt dressed folk on the summit (now that's a proper sign of the times :-P ) and several much better dressed dogs.


I think people have always gone up say Ben Nevis in jeans and a t-shirt or shorts without much else, in particular much experience.But I think in today's world of social media competition,GoPRO's on your helmet,irresponsible videos of u-tubes daredevils dangling on cranes, selfie-sticks, media competition for ego that characterises FB then any publicity is good publicity.

You can even get paid for it if you're good enough and live to tell the tale long enough to get noticed.

I am reminded of that one of the guy,loner type in London docklands (his mum can't watch) who walks along cranes.



Either you wanna live or you're a sucker for publicity or both or an adrenaline junkie which this guy is certainly at least :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fs0hkdJzk8&

-BTW I am Scottish but I have only been up Ben Nevis twice I think;once I rescued 3 women on the descent which I got no thanks for whatsoever.(Although the OP privately congratulated me in all her humility saying I earned untold karma points- THANKS personally from me!!)

It is a catch-22 situation. Even the best of intentions where you wish to genuinely trace the identity of your rescuers and thank them personally from your heart can back-fire attracting the most unwelcome of publicity.I'd call it a (unwelcome or not entirely welcome) victim of your own publicity- for good or bad.

I think we seem to have a trio of -climbers/hill-walkers- experienced and less experienced alike, MRT and the media.And this forum for all purposes seems to be serving one role of intelligence and information central command.

We all want a juicy story of heroism,bravery and moral fortitude against all the odds. And sometimes we even like or enjoy ( might get-off) sharing one.
Post edited at 01:27
3
 climbwhenready 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

> Sadly the level of abuse she's had after this post (not here, but on Facebook and all the newspaper sites that have stolen the story) is such that she's almost certainly not reading this any more and will have missed much of the supportive replies she's received.

She is still reading this thread; I received a PM a couple of days ago.
 Snowdave 03 Apr 2016
In reply to moffatross:

> I. And contrary to snowdave's supposition that people venturing up mountains in shorts and trainers is a new phenomenon spurred on by FB and social media attention seeking,


I stated that "" I think that with more people "" ie it has always been going on (the practice of ill prepared people wandering into the hills) even I saw when I first started 30yrs ago,...BUT it is getting worse ie there appears to be more people these days going out ill prepared.

Personally I went out with more experienced people & organised guided walks until I had a very good grounding in all aspects & could lead & go off on my own.
 veteye 03 Apr 2016
In reply to hikerpike:

I think that you should have post edited it some more, i.e. cut the text down to about 1/3rd of the amount. More succinct will be read by more.
Most people don't have the time or inclination to read stuffing and waffle and self indulgence.
1
 Offwidth 03 Apr 2016
In reply to veteye:
Which is one reason why the Fail thrives. Why be complex and true when a simple distorted message will do.

It was a naive UKC regular who pushed for Sara to give more detail and Yanis got 21 dislikes for his simple "no" in response. If I had seen it at the time I would certainly have urged caution. We are human and thrive on tales like this and this is a public space and the papers can step in and sell by just feeding that rat more widely. The Sun is the best selling paper in our country. Worse still in the middle classes the Fail tops the list. The comments pages of even the best papers, and Facebook and Twitter etc are full of bile from seemingly normal folk with no real contact with the story. It's so bad for some stories that people have been sued and even prosecuted. So when people lazily blame all of the press, think on that. The problem is really about people.

I completely disagree with the view expressed from Mountain Rescue. They were not involved and commenting on third party incidents to the press is not in their remit and sets a dangerous precedent (the opposite of their view they seemed to have when I'd helped with a misreported accident and rescue a decade back). It is simply not obvious for tourists that the Ben is so serious at Easter... where are all the signs? Comfortable walking on a big path on snow in the sun with plenty of folk about, can, within minutes, change to white out. Conditions where I and others have sometimes had to help (probably genuinely irresponsible) climbers who were not being careful enough with their navigation.
Post edited at 09:43
2
 Snowdave 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

> It is simply not obvious for tourists that the Ben is so serious at Easter... where are all the signs? Comfortable walking on a big path on snow in the sun with plenty of folk about, can, within minutes, change to white out.

That is the problem in this society "where are all the signs?"... Sh1t can happen, just people wander around in their own personal "bubble" & think it will never happen to them.

Similar reason you get warning labels on packets of nuts stating "warning may contain nuts" ( & yes I have seen them)...well no sh1t Sherlock..!!! So loads of warning signs in the carparks then, which would have to be sponsored by outdoor shops obviously..

Nature lets you play with her, but she can turn around & crush you in an instant....
1
 Offwidth 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Snowdave:
I'm not asking for signs. I'm asking for people to stop regarding tourists as irresponsible when they are thinking of challenging themselves but are ignorant of the situation at the summit.

Scroll down on this website to see what happens with signage for the Grand Canyon...

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~sandiway/hikes/grandcanyon/
Post edited at 11:05
1
 veteye 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

You can still be succinct and truthful.
We don't need to hear repeats of the respondent's heroism rescuing a bunch of older women who didn't help themselves. This is not to belittle his action, but rather to say that his ego has been massaged once by making it known, but any more is too much.
4
 Offwidth 03 Apr 2016
In reply to veteye:

Isn't it his choice what his truth is?
1
 veteye 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

Your message implied that shortening the message would end up with a distortion. I was pointing out that a shorter message does not have to be distorted,but can report the truth.
1
 Offwidth 03 Apr 2016
In reply to veteye:
I'm willing to forgive much in heartfelt rambling posts, much more so than in the succinct misery of pedants. This whole post is about a woman's heartfelt rambling story suffering unwarranted brutal attacks by miserable barstewards. Call me idealistic or optimistic but in matters of climbing I'd hope we could be better on UKC and in the main politely or humorously challenge issues, and where we must attack, pick on proper nasty targets.

Sara should know the world has too many miserable barstewards but even so most people in the world are much nicer. On UKC the support for her and anger against what bad people have said clearly indicates that she will always find friends here, where people actually know about mountains.
Post edited at 12:29
2
 veteye 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

I agree that the media have not taken the slant that would be fair. I also agree with your second paragraph. I just would prefer that responses were not so meandering or pandering to the poster blowing their own trumpet in a way which does not particularly add to the thread.
I hope that Sara has realised that the media will always kick you when you are down, but that their headlines soon move on, whilst the thoughts of people who view the situation reasonably are more valid; we all know that she will gain from her mistakes and improve greatly at the next stage.
1
 John_Hat 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

As werecat said above.

> A common saying in mountaineering about experienced climbers goes something like "Experience is just the sum of all the near misses we've had". In other words we learn by making sometimes serious mistakes. Obviously you've made a splendid and extreme start in this respect but you'll find the mountains a great place to make further mistakes in.

I've certainly had my share of near misses and the odd serious mistake. So far I've been lucky, and hopefully the sum of these near misses means I'll be less likely to make a serious mistake in the future.

We've all done silly things when starting out in any activity. It is really unlucky that yours has got picked up by the press, and most of the coverage I have seen has not been nice on you, for which you have my sympathy.

However you have my total respect for putting your hand up and admititng it, even more respect for the post above, and my best wishes for the future.
 Glyno 03 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

I would have thought it common knowledge that 6 intermittent rings of the bell from a Lindt Bunny is recognised as a distress signal. Basic mountaincraft, at least you'll know for in future.

;)
2
 drunken monkey 04 Apr 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

Has anyone got the supposed quote from LMRT? A lot of MRT bashing going on, does anyone know what was allegedly said?
 Offwidth 04 Apr 2016
In reply to drunken monkey:
I don't see "a lot of MRT bashing", just criticism from a few of a particular MRT spokeperson quoted in some newspaper articles. In my experience the UK MRTs are normally very sensible in their dealings with the press.
Post edited at 12:04
1
 moffatross 04 Apr 2016
In reply to drunken monkey:

>"Does anyone know what was allegedly said?"<

Don't be a dummy, it's easy enough to find. I won't help you find it, because it puts another name in the spotlight.

>"A lot of MRT bashing going on."<

Nobody has criticised any MRT's activities. A media statement from one MRT was questioned. I'm sure members of MRTs will be reading this thread and if they wanted to chip in about media statements, they would have.



2
 drunken monkey 04 Apr 2016
In reply to moffatross:

Or you could just quote it - you brought it up.

As a former MRT member. I'm interested to hear what was said. Nothing more, nothing less
 Simon Caldwell 04 Apr 2016
In reply to drunken monkey:

It's quoted in all the news reports, many of them linked in this thread
 Bwox 04 Apr 2016
In reply to Glyno:

> that 6 intermittent rings of the bell from a Lindt Bunny is recognised as a distress signal

Which is why it's so important we all get behind the campaign to swap the little hearts that the bears come with.
 Rob Naylor 04 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Bloody Ice Factor is at is now, splurging the story all over Facebook in an apparent attempt to drum up business.
 petestack 04 Apr 2016
In reply to Rob Naylor:
> Bloody Ice Factor is at is now, splurging the story all over Facebook in an apparent attempt to drum up business.

And they've taken it down!
Post edited at 19:57
In reply to petestack:

Good. Various 'voices of reason' suggested they wind their neck in. Maybe they noticed the different reaction amongst their target audience; I don't suppose they get much custom from frothing tabloid readers...
1
 sebrider 04 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Great respect for your post.

We all make mistakes but most importantly you have clearly learned from this one.

Those of us who walk or climb know the conditions that can be encountered in the mountain environment and make our decisions based on that. Even with this knowledge some of us get it wrong sometimes! Through no fault of your own you were not armed with that experience or knowledge base on which to make the right judgment. You learned the hard way like many of us do! All is well that ends well

You decided to do something different that day and go on a wee adventure, that's a great thing. Maybe you have found a new past time as a result. Best of luck with which whichever endeavors you choose.

You probably rightly see the media in a new light now too!

1
 fmck 05 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Sod this I'm going up there in a bikini and flip flops to build a bench. Fame at last awaits!
In reply to Saraalbones:
As previously said, I admire your humility and you have a lot of spirit - that goes a long way. I think your wrong though to suggest most people would not have helped out. My experience of over 30 years of mountain adventuring is that the sort of people you meet at the top of the Ben in full winter conditions will almost always do their bit and help out. Well done to those who did lend a hand.
1
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Apr 2016
In reply to Saraalbones:

Thanks for sharing a brilliant story! Glad to hear that you didn't come to any harm.

Don't listen to the news articles, any real climber will verify this exactly the stupid but brave tale that has launched many great mountaineering careers!
 Mike1902 12 May 2016
In reply to moffatross
No thanks
 Mike1902 12 May 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Well if it's in the papers then it must be true
 CurlyStevo 12 May 2016
In reply to Mike1902:

poor girl is probably just praying this thread will end soon ;)
1
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Have to say it's a bit odd that a poster joins UKC (my assumption) and their first and only post is answering on a thread that started 6 weeks ago and was last added to on 6th April (over 4 weeks ago).
1
 marsbar 12 May 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

No L plate. He has older messages.
 Simon Caldwell 12 May 2016
In reply to marsbar:

He posted once in 2013 and twice in 2011
 Mike1902 27 Jun 2016
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

> Have to say it's a bit odd that a poster joins UKC (my assumption) and their first and only post is answering on a thread that started 6 weeks ago and was last added to on 6th April (over 4 weeks ago).

Sorry I'm on dial up....
In reply to Saraalbones:

I asked a young person 'how is the shutter released when using a self y stick?'
The Question came to mind from this thread, so can any one tell me?

The answer I got,was a funny look Eh?
 Ridge 27 Jun 2016
In reply to Name Changed 34:
> I asked a young person 'how is the shutter released when using a self y stick?'

> The Question came to mind from this thread, so can any one tell me?

> The answer I got,was a funny look Eh?

Just don't mention 'rewinding the film and getting it developed'. I'm still not sure if the young lad at work was taking the piss asking where the USB port was on the 35mm compact camera we unearthed , or if he thought I was taking the piss talking about rolls of film...
Post edited at 21:52

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