UKC

Well, it looks like the Dutch headed to the coffee houses for a dose of the correct perspective before voting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39287689

Let's hope the French say "Non" to Le Pen.

In reply to Hugh J:

A good result, Wilders is too extreme. Still the results are "interesting"

In reply to Hugh J:

He gained a little ground though. So just like a bad smell, he'll linger and won't be going away.

In reply to Hugh J:

The increase from 2- 10% by the Green Left party was very encouraging.

For all the political back slapping about defeating the 'far right' the fact remains that Wilders gained an extra four seats with the government losing several to both him and the Greens.

From what they were saying on Radio 4 this morning a fair chunk of Rutte's own party were pretty uncomfortable with him aping some of Wilders anti immigration rhetoric as a tactic to stem the haemorrhaging of voters to the Freedom party. Wilders has basically done a Farage and managed to drag Dutch centrist parties to the right.

Its like the nonsense celebrations after the recent Austrian elections when Alexander Van der Bellen (The Greens) won 53.8& of the vote while quietly ignoring the elephant in the room that 46.2% of the electorate opted for the 'far right' Norbert Hofer (Freedom Party of Austria). A narrow defeat that would have been unthinkable ten years ago.

In reply to Cú Chullain:

Yes and no: although Wilders' PVV goes from 15 to (probably) 20 seats, that's still less than their 24 seats in 2010.

In reply to Hugh J:

It will be interesting to see what happens next. It will take at least 2 months (possibly 3 or 4) to form a coalition, which will consist of at least 4 parties. Governing will be an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't be surprised if the next government lasts no more than 2 years and new elections are called.

In reply to Brev:
It were certainly interesting elections here in the Netherlands (I'm Dutch), and to be fair I'm quite happy with the results. Wilder' PVV did grow, but the majority seems to be protest votes and they didn't grow as much as the polls indicated a month ago.

You're right that forming a coalition will be a challenge, but looking at some likely candidates (VVD, D66, CDA, GL) they do agree on several items (i.e. EU) on broad terms, which helps. Another upside is that the current coalition of VVD and PvdA hasn't had a majority in the senate for the past two years, so every law needed 'help' from one of the opposition parties. While this took more negotiations, it actually worked quite well.

In reply to JR_NL:

Some people are suggesting that the "Turkey crisis" was manufactured to make Rutte look good to right wingers and take the wind out of Wilders sails (a bit anti EU conspiracy theory) and will now evaporate as if nothing happened.

If the conspiracy theory has any basis in fact then we might see a similar tactic used in France before the elections there.

I am not saying I believe this, just thought it was interesting

In reply to JR_NL:


As the Netherlands always has coalitions, will it be more difficult/time consuming than usual ?

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I don't think it was manufactured per se, but seeing that both Erdogan and Rutte were in a position to gain from it it was probably played for all it's political worth. I don't have the feeling that this influenced the outcome significantly. Wilders was already on it's decline in terms of seats in Parliament. VVD and DENK (appealing to Turkish/Moroccan voters) probably gained a few seats, but the outcome would have largely been the same.

In reply to Doug:

Needing a 4-party coalition is unprecedented, and you need a left and right wing party to do it. Not to say that it's undoable, just a challenge. Another option which I wouldn't rule out is a 3-party minority government.

In reply to Cú Chullain:

Spot on, it is still a worrying trend.

I want to see the "far rights" vote drop.

i

In reply to Cú Chullain:


Post war policy when it comes to Austria.

In reply to neilh:

What do you mean by far right? Do you mean Le Pen's policies of an increased French state, more protectionism, less free market, increased public spending, increased benefit system?

I'm not sure the traditional left/right badges are helping. They seem less and less relevant now.....

In reply to galpinos:

So are you saying Le Pen is a left leaning socialist?

Anyway are we not talking about the Dutch election.

In reply to neilh:

I'm saying she has a lot of policies that were once the ground of the traditional left so calling her the far right misses the fact that a lot of her supports comes not only from the anti-immigration/EU stance but from the traditional French working class. The old 'labels' don't seem to work anymore.....

I don't know enough about Wilders to know what his policies are.

In reply to Brev:


I think the Dutch are quite used to coalition governement. With the exceptoin of Wilders, I don't think they are anyway near as adversarial as UK/US politicians and cooperation is the norm.

In reply to Hugh J:
Yes, the Dutch (i.e. I) are quite used to coalitions, but we're also quite used to them failing. Yesterday was the first time in 19 years that a Dutch government sat out its full term...

In reply to Brev:

Strange isn't it, that what would be thought to be a natural coalition of the two main/biggest parties, (centre right / hard right,) isn't even on the cards.

In reply to Big Ger:

I suspect that has something to do with the character of Mr Wilders.

In reply to Hugh J:


Yah think?!?!?




Still waiting for a good set up for a "Dutch Oven" joke here....

In reply to galpinos:


Yes, absolutely. I heard a chap on the radio (Start the Week) talking about "people from somewhere" versus "people from anywhere" as a new axis of political outlook that makes sense of the recent "upsurge of populism" or whatever it is that's going on. "Anywheres" are open to experience, pro-globalisation, mobile and don't have a personal identity based strongly on their place of origin; while "somewheres" have values that centre around a personal identity strongly based on where they're from; strong value of community and tradition. Made a lot of sense.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Indeed.
Globalist/protectionist axis makes far more sense for these types of issues.

Left/right labels are best kept for narrow issues of domestic tax expenditure, and tend to be confusingly misapplied to foreign policy, trade, immigration, etc.

In reply to neilh:


Domestically, she is.

But as she wants out of the Euro, harsh limits to immigration, and harsher limits to expressions of Islam, we have to call her "far-right", because of the paucity of our labels.

In reply to Just Another Dave:

Can't we just call her a : "Le Figaro reading little Franclander" and be done with it?

In reply to Big Ger:


A good result on the face of it, but the limited success of Wilders was not just to count the extra votes he got (without 'winning') , but that he was able to make Rutte say things to get elected that previously you would only have expected ( accepted) Wilders to say.

So they may have said no to Wilders, but not necessarily a lot of his views.

In reply to Big Ger:


Or a "Cheese-eating, no-surrender monkey"?