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First hand observations of Covid vaccine

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 The Lemming 06 Jan 2021

Hopefully this OP will allow people to share their experiences of the vaccine.

Please DO NOT let this degenerate into an anti vaccine argument or conspiracy discussion. 

As for me, just had my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

I was informed that I get my second dose in 12 weeks and the second dose is likely to be a different brand. 

Edit

Forgot to mention I bumped into a work colleague getting his injection as well. I had not seen him for ages and he cheerily informed me that he caught Covid twice and was still suffering the effects of Long Covid from the first time.

Post edited at 19:34
In reply to The Lemming: I'm 47 and not a health care worker so it will probs be next summer before I can reply! Have a bump anyway, and best wishes for the next few weeks.

Post edited at 20:13
 abr1966 06 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Had my first one 7 days ago....scheduled in for the second dose 2 weeks today. Had an automated text reminding me yesterday so still hopeful of a 2nd dose 21 days after the first one.

Arm was a bit sore for 2 days but no side effects otherwise.

 Anoetic 06 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

you need to make sure the second dose is same make, they aren’t interchangeable....

 CurlyStevo 06 Jan 2021
In reply to Anoetic:

Can you explain why? the moderna, fzier and oxford one all target the spike protein.

In reply to The Lemming:

A friend who works for the NHS has had Pfizer on Monday (he was expecting to get the Oxford but didn't) and has reported no ill effects at all.  I keep winding him up for being a walking spike factory, but other than that :D

In reply to Anoetic:

> you need to make sure the second dose is same make, they aren’t interchangeable....

They are likely to be because they target the same thing just in different ways (i.e. Pfizer turns you into a "spike factory" whereas Oxford injects spikes already attached to another virus).  There has not been a trial of combining them, so there is no data on doing that (which is the actual phrase Pfizer are using), but several are now ongoing.

They will use the same if available.  If not available they'll use another one.  If they find in the trials that combination isn't effective, they'll just give a third of whatever the second one was (probably Oxford).

Post edited at 21:11
In reply to The Lemming:

I am glad to hear that you are being looked after. That's all I can say for the time being. 

In reply to The Lemming:

Excellent news but personally I would rather get an injection of Lemming blood. 

You have been around covid positive people at work just about every day since it all started and haven't caught it. My theory is that small furry rodents have a natural immunity. 

 RobAJones 06 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Mrs J's auntie had her second dose of Pfizer yesterday. She needed a bit of convincing to have the first. She is a bit of a hypochondriac and allegedly allergic to x,y and z so was concerned after the early reports of two people having reactions. Fortunately she has had no side effects at all.

In reply to RobAJones:

I did see the form that my friend had to fill in (he sent me a copy out of interest), it did ask about allergies but specifically only those that cause anaphylaxis or similar.

 RobAJones 06 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

The antivax  message doesn't get any traction on somewhere like UKC but it does on some gardening forums frequented by vulnerable 80 year old. Freedom of speech my a*se. 

 The Lemming 06 Jan 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> My theory is that small furry rodents have a natural immunity. 

Here's hoping. I may be a Super Dooper Spreader. 

Not given it to Miss Lemming either. 😀

 girlymonkey 06 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My first dose (Pfizer) was 2 weeks ago. Next one booked for 15th. Not heard anything about delaying or cancelling it so fingers crossed it will go ahead. 

I was wondering if they would contact some of us to test for antibodies and see how effective a single dose is before the second one. Seems like it would be worthwhile!

 chris_r 06 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

> Not given it to Miss Lemming either. 😀

But has she had covid yet? 😉

In reply to The Lemming:

> Not given it to Miss Lemming either. 😀

Miss Lemming not getting it just further proves my point. Lemmings may jump off cliffs but they apparently don't catch covid.

My online persona everywhere but on here is HairyWeasel, hopefully mustelidae will have a similar protection as rodents. 

 Anoetic 06 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Yes, agreed they all target the same spike protein. The Pfizer is an MRNA vaccine and not a weakened virus like the Zeneca one...As yet this mix and match approach to play a political numbers game hasn’t been trialled for effectiveness (the same as the 12 week wait).  If it is found not to work then where will all the extra doses come from...

At least going with 2 of the same vaccines now follows the current know science

In reply to Anoetic:

> If it is found not to work then where will all the extra doses come from...

The UK has ordered 357 million doses of various vaccines, most of which will end up approved, so that's plenty.

100 million of Oxford alone.

It is not a "political numbers game".  It's a quite rational game based on the idea that you will reduce deaths and hospital admissions most by giving more people some immunity rather than fewer people more immunity.

Post edited at 22:32
 Roadrunner6 06 Jan 2021
In reply to abr1966:

My wife (MD in a regional hospital) got the moderna vaccine and had a sore arm and a slight headache. She gets her second dose 4 weeks after the first.

In reply to The Lemming:

My wife got her first shot the Tuesday after Christmas, and, other than a tendency to spend half an hour just sitting there applying updates every second Wednesday morning, she has been completely fine.

5G reception in the house is much improved, too.

More seriously, she's still scheduled to get the second dose 4 weeks after the first, and hoping that doesn't get cancelled - there seems to be no good evidence that the second dose will still provide good lasting immunity if it's left as late as appears to be being proposed, now, that seems a significant gamble.

 The Lemming 06 Jan 2021
In reply to skog:

I'm not chuffed that my next dose will be 12 weeks away and that I will most probably get a different med on the day.

In reply to skog:

> More seriously, she's still scheduled to get the second dose 4 weeks after the first, and hoping that doesn't get cancelled - there seems to be no good evidence that the second dose will still provide good lasting immunity if it's left as late as appears to be being proposed, now, that seems a significant gamble.

It's not really, as the UK has enough doses of various vaccines ordered to give a third one if needs be.

There's also no good evidence that it won't, by the way, it simply hasn't been trialled.

Post edited at 23:09
In reply to Neil Williams:

What are your relevant qualifications and experience, please? With concern expressed by people who are qualified, including the WHO, and the vaccine manufacturers, it seems reasonable to be a bit worried. Needing a third dose, if that becomes a solution, will leave front line health care professionals vulnerable in the meantime.

It may be a necessary evil, but let's not pretend that it isn't putting lives at risk by betting on the unknown.

 lithos 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Dad gets his 2nd Pfizer on Sunday am , i'll take him to hospital - and try to keep my distance, at 58 i am a way down the list 

 The Lemming 07 Jan 2021
In reply to skog:

Can we please not let this OP drift into theories and conjecture?

Emotions run high and, for want of better phrasiology, there are a lot of uneducated views being peddled as fact.

I'm hoping that the topic can help people who are presented with the opportunity of being given the vaccine by reading about first-hand accounts of the vaccination process.

 Kean 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My 85-yr-old dad went for his first Pfizer jab. They asked him if he'd ever had any allergic reactions to medication. He said he had (antibiotics) so they said he'd have to wait for the Astra jab.

In reply to The Lemming:

My 86 year old Dad has now had both jabs. He also has Parkinson's. He said he hasn't had any reactions to either injections.

In reply to Neil Williams:

> There's also no good evidence that it won't, by the way, it simply hasn't been trialled.

Well that's OK then.  Maybe we should save time and take the same approach to product certification in other safety critical industries.

 Billhook 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Anoetic:

Do you have a link for that claim about not mixing the vaccines?

Post edited at 04:32
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Safety has been trialled. OP specifically asked to keep that BS off this thread. Pick it up again in one of the many other ones if you just can't let it go.

Good thread btw. Will be nice to have people's actual experiences written up.

Post edited at 07:56
 Garethza 07 Jan 2021
In reply to skog:

> 5G reception in the house is much improved, too.

Thanks for making me chuckle this morning haha!

 Anoetic 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

The doses have only been ordered, the manufacturing will take months.  As it stands there are problems already in the supply chain....

In reply to Anoetic:

Take it somewhere else, please.

Edit: Here you go. Made a thread for you. https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/the_pub/vaccination_supposition-729742

Post edited at 09:18
 Anoetic 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Billhook: Hi I’ll take a look as  It actually comes from PHE guidance, that mix and matching should be  on an exceptional basis as  there is no evidence on the interchangeability.  They  also stated that it would be rare...

In reply to The Lemming:

Stick to the point of the thread please everyone. Experiences of the jab, interesting, helpful and unbiased.

 HardenClimber 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Moderately sore arm for about 36 hours, 12 hours after vaccination.

Nil else (day 4), nt even n improvement in my 5g.

 ianstevens 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Saying that using different vaccines for each dose hasn't been tested for efficacy is not "anti-vax" by any stretch of the imagination. The UK government strategy of mixing and matching and extending the period between doses by 12 weeks IS using the vaccines outside of the realms they have been tested for, with unknown (because it hasn't been tested) efficacy. If you can send a link to a proper scientific paper that shows these data then I'd be more than happy to read it.

To be super clear here: vaccines are great, and people should get them. I'll be getting one as soon as I can (which will be a while as I'm 30 with no pre-exisiting conditions). BUT the UK government's vaccination strategy is somewhat sub-optimal and open to critique; and doing so is not anti-vax/5G/microchip/great reset rubbish.

In reply to ianstevens:

I think that's fair.  It's a mitigatable (by giving a third dose) unknown in an utterly exceptional situation.

"There is no data saying it will work" is not the same as "it won't work".  Evidence from many other "two part" vaccines (e.g. one of the common travel ones, is it one of the hepatitis ones?) suggests it most probably will, but if it doesn't you just bang another one in.

It's the MHRA and JCVI that have proposed it, not Boris.  If it was him I'd have less faith!

Pfizer have just said "there's no data", they are being misquoted all over the place.

The WHO I'd just ignore, they have been inconsistent all along, I'd go as far to say worthless and that we should withdraw any funding we pay to them and look to set up a competent replacement in conjunction with other countries.

Post edited at 09:47
 The_Boy_ODwyer 07 Jan 2021
In reply to girlymonkey:

They know that already for up to 21 days, the answer being, very effective! Would be very strange for it to suddenly disappear on day 22...

 ianstevens 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Indeed. Personally I'm far enough down the line that there shouldn't be supply issues, but I'd be quite grumpy were I getting a mix and match vaccine now. However, I'd prefer it to not having one at all. Like you say, a single dose or a mixed pair of doses will most likely  work at least a bit, we just don't know this for sure. A third dose is of course an option, but that increases the resources and more crucially the time taken the vaccinate a critical threshold of population, when it could juts be done properly in the first place at the expense of the initial vaccination rate.

 ianstevens 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Actually read my comment please, thanks. Critique of the methods of vaccination is not anti-vax.

 Eric9Points 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Your statement that you will probably get a different vaccine  is contrary to government guidance where mixing would only occur in exceptional circumstances. 

Who told you this?

Does "brand" actually mean a different vaccine or does it just mean a different "batch"? 

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

> Safety has been trialled. OP specifically asked to keep that BS off this thread. Pick it up again in one of the many other ones if you just can't let it go.

I wasn't the one who started the diversion onto safety, I responded to a post which I disagreed with.  If you want to complain about off-topic, complain about the initial off-topic post.

As a debating style asserting non-existent authority to set the agenda, dismissing views you disagree with as BS and issuing edicts is not acceptable.

It is absolutely not BS to consider that going outside the qualified protocol from the clinical trials is of concern.  If anything that view is the general consensus outside of the UK. 

If I argued 'there's no evidence that it won't work, we just haven't done the qualification' as a reason for releasing a chip to production people would think I was taking the p*ss.

 drunken monkey 07 Jan 2021
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Hi Stevo - bit late to the thread so apologies if you've answered already. Mix & match vaccines - i doubt they will have been trialled in this way, so how do we know its safe and how do we know how effective it will be.

My wife is a nurse and gets her Pfizer first injection today. All her patients/residents at her work have received their first vaccine. Its going to be 12 weeks before they get the 2nd. Its only been trialled at 3 weeks, so surely they don't know how effective its going to be.

 stp 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Billhook:

> Do you have a link for that claim about not mixing the vaccines?


I don't have a link but I have read the same thing.

 stp 07 Jan 2021
In reply to drunken monkey:

Well said. I'd also add that mixing like this is sloppy and given the fact there is already a crisis of confidence in our leadership and immunization generally doing stuff like this is only going to exacerbate that.

In reply to The Lemming:

My wife had hers 9 days ago, still booked for the second jab a week on Tuesday as far as I know (she would have told me if it had changed). Couple of days of very mild soreness, but nothing else.

 The Lemming 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Eric9Points:

I have just woken up for my night-time wee wee and can't help notice that a few people on this discussion want a hypothetical argument about this, that or the other.

This is an amazing site of people from all walks of life and professions. I am hoping that this topic can remain on subject so that people can share first-hand experiences of what its like taking the jab.

Such things as first-hand accounts are rare in the sea of internet armchair pundits, pseudo-scientists and others with various axes/agendas to follow.

> Your statement that you will probably get a different vaccine  is contrary to government guidance where mixing would only occur in exceptional circumstances. 

> Who told you this?

The person who injected me. It just so happened they were an ex-paramedic who is now a nurse practitioner that I speak to on a regular basis, professionally, at work

> Does "brand" actually mean a different vaccine or does it just mean a different "batch"? 

It means different vaccine completely.

I was offered the jab with less than 24 hours notice and little to no information was available for me to make an informed decision. I could have declined and waited a few months to be offered a different medication but that would have been more months of exposure to a virus on a daily basis and increasing my chances of getting covid and rolling the dice on how my body reacts to it. The BBC daily growing death toll helps focus the mind.

Off to sleepy bo-bo's  now😀

Edit.

I will decline mixing and matching the second jab, for this year at least.

Post edited at 13:07
 Eric9Points 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Thanks.

I hope the nurse practitioner was talking bollocks. I would be dismayed if they weren't.

 Andy Johnson 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> i.e. Pfizer turns you into a "spike factory" whereas Oxford injects spikes already attached to another virus

Minor point, but the Oxford/AZ vaccine doesn't contain a virus with "spikes already attached". Rather it contains a modified chimpanzee adenovirus that infects cells in the human recipient and causes those infected cells to manufacture the spike protein.

There's a good explainer at https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine.html

All three main vaccines turn the recipient into a "spike factory". The AZ one uses infected host cells to convert viral DNA into RNA, and the RNA tells the cell to create spikes. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines contain RNA* that is packaged to allow it to enter a cell directly, skipping the DNA->RNA stage.

(Actually mRNA, although the distinction isn't that important here)

Post edited at 17:08
 Andy Gamisou 07 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My wife got first doze of the Pfizer one on Monday.  Pretty sore arm for a couple of days, but now not so bad.  Starting to feel ill today with 'cold' symptoms, but no measurable fever.  Hoping she gets through her 12 hour night shift ok.

In reply to Andy Johnson:

Thanks for that - so it's effectively sort of mRNA as well, just that the "mRNA" is sat inside a chimp virus as DNA?

Interesting - I stand corrected.

This does, notably, give credence to the idea that a second dose of a different one would still work, as all three of the main ones (Oxford, Pfizer and Moderna) result in you becoming a factory for the same spikes and then reacting to them?

Post edited at 17:22
 Andy Johnson 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

In a cell, enzymes move along a long chain of DNA, "reading" its constituent molecules and building a corresponding mRNA molecular chain.

Then a cell structure called a ribosome "reads" the mRNA's molecular "instructions" and synthesises a sequence of amino acids which join to form the proteins that the cell uses for its various functions.

mRNA differs from DNA in that it is a single helix whereas DNA is a double helix. But in each case, the type and order of the molecules represents a kind of instruction set for the cell. DNA and mRNA also use different molecular encodings.

mRNA normally degrades quite rapidly because it only has a transient role, so the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have to be kept cold to avoid this. The AZ vaccine is DNA inside a virus, which is a much more robust package that can be stored at warmer temperatures.

> so it's effectively sort of mRNA as well, just that the "mRNA" is sat inside a chimp virus as DNA?

Effectively, yes. The chimp virus DNA is "translated" by the cell into mRNA, which tells the cell what to do - which in this case is to build spike proteins.

Post edited at 17:54
 Timmd 07 Jan 2021
In reply to skog:

> My wife got her first shot the Tuesday after Christmas, and, other than a tendency to spend half an hour just sitting there applying updates every second Wednesday morning, she has been completely fine.

Does having it affect one's perception of time?

Post edited at 17:47
In reply to Kean:

Can I ask which antibiotic your Dad had adverse reactions to?

 Roadrunner6 07 Jan 2021
In reply to Kean:

> My 85-yr-old dad went for his first Pfizer jab. They asked him if he'd ever had any allergic reactions to medication. He said he had (antibiotics) so they said he'd have to wait for the Astra jab.

My wife's allergic to medications with sulfur in them so she had to just wait 30 minutes to be sure.

 Kean 07 Jan 2021
In reply to earlsdonwhu:

> Can I ask which antibiotic your Dad had adverse reactions to?

He's not sure but thinks it was one of the penicillin family.

In reply to Kean:

Thanks. I still have adverse symptoms from ciprofoxacin from eighteen months ago but one of the few UK  specialists in the area has assured me, and others in the same boat, that both vaccines should pose no further problems.

 Cameron3298 08 Jan 2021
In reply to RobAJones:

They can say it here, we just don't respond because they're wrong and haven't got the intelligence to have a reasoned logical discussion about it

Edit to add.

Also that freedom of speech thing is American, not British we haven't got it, lots of people seem to forget that we have different laws to America just because it's in american movies doesn't mean it applies here. Fortunately as far as I'm aware only bad (hate crime) shit is banned. Which is good  

Post edited at 07:33
In reply to The Lemming:

> I'm not chuffed that my next dose will be 12 weeks away and that I will most probably get a different med on the day.

But if you've had Pfizer you are already as safe after one dose as you are likly to need to be.

In reply to girlymonkey:

> My first dose (Pfizer) was 2 weeks ago. Next one booked for 15th. Not heard anything about delaying or cancelling it so fingers crossed it will go ahead. 

> I was wondering if they would contact some of us to test for antibodies and see how effective a single dose is before the second one. Seems like it would be worthwhile!

They did that during the trials. First dose 91% effective, second dose takes it to 94%.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Given that both turn you into a "spike factory", I wonder why Pfizer is more effective in this way - does Pfizer perhaps cause the production of more spikes, or their production over a longer period, than Oxford?

 icehockeyhair 08 Jan 2021
In reply to Andy Johnson:

A very pedantic point perhaps, but I believe the reason the RNA vaccines are less stable and have to be stored at -80 degrees Celsius is not because mRNA has a transient role in cells. RNA is inherently less stable than DNA. The chemical difference between the two means that RNA is prone to undergo a chemical reaction called hydrolysis that breaks it down. Also proteins that break down RNA, called RNases, are very abundant in the environment and are very difficult to get rid of (for example they are produced by lots of bacteria).  Both of these processes that break down RNA run much more slowly at -80 degrees Celsius so the vaccines last longer when stored at this temperature.

 Iwan 08 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Since having the jab my tallywhacker has shrunk to 3". Hopefully that's still wide enough...

 Wainers44 08 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

A second hand experience....

Mother in law had her first dose of the vaccine before Christmas.  It was between Chemo doses 2 and 3, so she is a long way from being fit and strong right now. However no side effects, well none discernable from the normal Chemo nasties anyway. So far so good.

Second jab was due a couple of days ago but thats been deferred until 12 weeks.

In reply to icehockeyhair:

Moderna only requires -20 but is also mRNA - I wonder why the difference?

 abr1966 08 Jan 2021
In reply to abr1966:

> Had my first one 7 days ago....scheduled in for the second dose 2 weeks today. Had an automated text reminding me yesterday so still hopeful of a 2nd dose 21 days after the first one.

> Arm was a bit sore for 2 days but no side effects otherwise.

Had a text today cancelling my 2nd dose...says I'll be contacted within 12 weeks! 

 CurlyStevo 08 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

can't remember the exact details but its a different outer lipid layer that makes it more durable

 Cobra_Head 08 Jan 2021
In reply to Dax H:

> You have been around covid positive people at work just about every day since it all started and haven't caught it. My theory is that small furry rodents have a natural immunity. 

My sister thought that, she's a nurse, all he mate had caught it, she thought she'd probably had it but not had any effects, then just before Xmas!!

She's OK now though.

 Cobra_Head 08 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Moderna only requires -20 but is also mRNA - I wonder why the difference?


because it's more modern, it says that in the name

 Andy Johnson 08 Jan 2021
In reply to icehockeyhair:

Yes you're absolutely right. What you said is what I tried to express, but I didn't phrase it at all well.

To correct myself: RNA isn't unstable because it's transient. But for normal cell function its instability generally doesn't matter because its role is transient. And as you say, the low temperature slows the breakdown of the RNA In the vaccine.

Thanks for correcting me!

Post edited at 18:26
 Andy Johnson 08 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Moderna only requires -20 but is also mRNA - I wonder why the difference?

As far as I know the reason isn't clear yet, probably for commercial reasons.

Both vaccines coat the "naked" mRNA macromolecues with lipid nanoparticles to stop them breaking-up in storage and post-ibjection. Apparently this is done by running the lipids and mRNA through a specially shaped vessel. The precise details of this are considered commercial secrets by the manufacturers, but presumably Moderna have found a way to form lipid/RNA carriers that can survive a higher temperature environment - or at least that they are confident that it can. Moderna has more experience of developing RNA vaccines than Pfizer. It's also possible that the Pfizer vaccine may turn out to be stable at higher temperatures too.

The hope is that there is a lot of improvement still to be squeezed out of RNA vaccine tech. Very promising for lots of diseases, including cancer.

Post edited at 18:22
 Andy Gamisou 09 Jan 2021
In reply to Andy Gamisou:

She's not doing great now.  More or less permanent headache, plus exacerbated sinus problems she already had.  Also constantly feeling hot, although actual temperature normal.  I think she's wishing they'd let her wait for the Astra-doobrey one now.

In reply to Andy Gamisou:

Likely the effect of both will be the same as both work by producing a load of spike proteins.

 Jmacquarrie 09 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My partner (who's an NHS worker) had her first dose this morning.

She's rang and said other than having trouble negotiating her way into the car park at Watford football club due to construction work the process was very smooth and well organised.

And apparently while she was waiting a fox ran about on the pitch so she got some wildlife watching in as well.

Edit: Watford football club have donated their corporate suites for use as vaccination rooms in case anyone was wondering why she was there.

Post edited at 09:11
In reply to Jmacquarrie:

I've noticed that MK Hospital is now asking all local over-75s to book an appointment to get Pfizer there (I think that's all they have for now).  As we're one of the worst rates in the country, are we being prioritised, are they particularly efficient or are we just lucky?

 Jmacquarrie 09 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

Might just be things are moving faster, first few weeks were always likely to be getting up to speed.

 The Lemming 13 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

There was an interesting article on Radio 2 Jeremy Vine 12 January starting at time stamp 30:50 about the government's approach to delaying the second jab beyond recommendations.

The article will be available for 29 more days on the BBC Sounds app.

Made for an interesting listen. My take on it is that the government is playing a numbers game to get all of the country partially immunized rather than half the country immunized, with the same amount of doses available.

Well worth a listen.

Post edited at 09:38
In reply to The Lemming:

> Made for an interesting listen. My take on it is that the government is playing a numbers game to get all of the country partially immunized rather than half the country immunized, with the same amount of doses available.

I don't think there's any doubt that that is what they are doing, because the JCVI etc (not just Bozza) believes that has the highest potential to reduce deaths and hospitalisations compared to giving a smaller number of people greater protection.  It makes a lot of sense to me.

 colinakmc 13 Jan 2021
In reply to skog:

> 5G reception in the house is much improved, too.

I enjoyed this craic too... but has Mrs Scot had any messages from Bill Gates yet?

 Andy Gamisou 13 Jan 2021
In reply to Neil Williams:

> Likely the effect of both will be the same as both work by producing a load of spike proteins.

But irrelevant now I guess.  Next one due in a week or two. 

 Qwerty2019 13 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Did anyone watch the GMTV interview with Geoffrey Boycott yesterday and the contrast with Esther Rantzen this morning?

Basically they have both had the first of the 2 doses of vaccine.  Both similar age group etc.  Boycott was on yesterday, in his noisy pompous manner telling them how disgusting it was that he was being left to rot after the first injection.  How the government was not fulfilling its promises etc.  

Then you had Rantzen, saying that she feels privileged to have received her first injection and she would much rather the front line workers all the way down to postal workers, binmen, teaching assistants, petrol forecourt workers, checkout workers etc. got their first injection to give them the same level of protection as she had.

I see these two people as a representation of the public in the uk in the battle against covid, whether its going out for a climb, meeting with friends, having the jabs.  

Matt Hancock was on and stated that the first injection (after12days) would be 80+% protection from contracting covid and from being admitted to hospital for covid.  But then he went on to state that the people with the first jab were 100% protected from ever seeing an ICU bed.  He also stated that waiting more than the 3 weeks to the next jab was not an issue.

As always, this is about protecting the NHS and their current actions support this.  Once they get more vaccine i hope we can start to see the end of the tunnel for everyone but it has to be geared towards the NHS and front line workers as a priority even if people like Boycott cant see it.

 The Lemming 13 Jan 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

> Matt Hancock... But then he went on to state that the people with the first jab were 100% protected from ever seeing an ICU bed.  He also stated that waiting more than the 3 weeks to the next jab was not an issue.

Yes from Matt's handling of this pandemic, I have 100% faith and trust in him and what comes out of that lying mouth.

Post edited at 14:18
 Qwerty2019 13 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My guess is that Matt's just passing on the info from the experts there.  I dont have him down as much more than a mouthpiece.  If i am to bring myself to let them vaccinate me i would be a pretty big hypocrite to at least not try to believe their reasoning.

That's not to say i believe everything they tell me, but my point wasn't really to get into the lying and misinformation.  It was more to show how society seems to be falling into the two catagories of me and us.

Anyhow, i will leave you to letting the liars inject 'something' into your arm and how you are going to deal with that 

 thetwin 13 Jan 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

Just spent the afternoon jabbing people with the Pfizer vaccine. No-one was concerned about the delay to their booster dose. 

 Stichtplate 13 Jan 2021
In reply to Qwerty2019:

> Anyhow, i will leave you to letting the liars inject 'something' into your arm and how you are going to deal with that 

I wouldn’t conflate Hancock with the scientists and clinicians who’ve developed, tested and are administering the vaccine And we’ve hardly seen a lot of evidence of government policy skipping hand in hand with scientific advice have we?

Personally, I wouldn’t trust Hancock to wash his hands on exiting the Gents but I’m very pleased to be booked in for my first jab tomorrow.

 wildebeeste 14 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Got my second dose of Pfizer last night, 21 days after the first. First shot nothing but a sore arm. I’m expecting today to be rough - almost every one I know that has had the second felt tired and weak the following day. Unfortunately I am at work, so hoping it’s chill.

Post edited at 14:00
 The Lemming 14 Jan 2021
In reply to wildebeeste:

I'm probably going to have to wait around 80ish days before my next dose.

I got my first dose minutes before starting a night shift. After I woke the next evening I felt like I'd been beaten about my lower back and major joints. I was not looking forward to my night shift. Huray for pain meds 😊

I'm still a bit tired a week later, but its all good.

It just so happens that while typing this reply, I had a routine phone consult with a GP and I quizzed her on the delay between the first and second doses. I also asked about the rumour that I was told in my OP about possibly getting a second dose from a different product. Rather than listen to the media, I had a grown-up to ask.

The doctor assured me that I would not get a different brand because both vaccines work in different ways, and if I did have to have a different product then I would require a third injection.

I was reassured about the possible delay in the second dose, after the doctor mentioned that there was evidence that the delay would not harm my immunity once the initial vaccine was in my body for 14 days. I'd be 89-90% protected from the severest form of Covid 19, i.e stay out of Intensive Care Units.

I'm hoping as this discussion plods along with updates of people who've been through the process, the first-hand accounts will help people who are offered the vaccine another source of information rather than hear-say or unverified accounts from dubious sources on social media.

Its always good to help make informed decisions about these things.

Post edited at 15:08
 Stichtplate 15 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My parents (79 and 80) had their Pfizer vaccine last week and reported a quick in and out visit taking just over half an hour. Very efficient with good separation of attendees and lots of staff wiping down seats after each person exited etc. Neither reported any adverse effects and both were very pleased with the process (Mum has COPD and has been especially vigilant about infection control and isolation) and grateful for the swift roll out. They've been told that they'll be contacted regarding second dose.

I had my first dose of Pfizer yesterday afternoon. Again, very efficient with the same level of detail regarding infection control, booklets explaining the vaccine and quick and comprehensive accompanying documentation. Woke up at 4AM feeling cold and shivery, took a couple of paracetamol and have felt fine today. I have annual flu jabs and have had lots of travel related jabs with no previous issues but the reaction was very, very minor and much preferable to a bout of Covid. Next dose booked for 11 weeks time.

 RobAJones 15 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Took Mrs J's mum (84) for AZ/Oxford jab today. No problem with or reaction to the jab. She now has a card saying she has had the AZ/Oxford vaccine, presumably so she should get the same in 12 weeks. She did have to wait outside for 45 minutes (we arrived at 2:55 for a 3pm slot) and it was bl**dy freezing, but happy she is now home. 

 wildebeeste 16 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Update - had my second dose of Pfizer on Wednesday night, which was the first night of my 48 hr shift as a firefighter/emt. Woke up the next morning with a sore arm. Tired, but nothing unusual considering we ran a couple of calls that night. Late on day 2, about 1900, we worked a cardiac arrest. For those that don’t know, there’s a fair bit of adrenaline and physical effort involved. On the way back to station I felt like sh*t- sweaty and chilly with a really achey back. Had a shower and some brufen, right as rain today.

 The Lemming 16 Jan 2021
In reply to wildebeeste:

>  Tired, but nothing unusual considering we ran a couple of calls that night. 

You poor lamb. Was that to stop the bed sores?

😜

 George Ormerod 16 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My 86 year old father in law had his first jab with no ill effects. Sounds like the UK is well ahead of Canada. 
 

I was wondering if with the delayed second dose and, possibly, different second vaccine dose type, this was a good opportunity for a clinical trial of these differences. It could potentially help other countries like the recover trial did on treatments for COVID. 

Post edited at 06:13
In reply to George Ormerod:

I believe they are now trialling different combinations to see if it gives a better outcome, as it could well do.

In reply to The Lemming:

Had my first dose of Astrazenica chimp virus a la spike protein this afternoon. Really impressed by the speed and organisation of it. Team of army medics in the hospital: efficient, friendly, professional young men and women doing an excellent job. Looks like a massive success to me: well done to all involved. Some of that can even go to the government, they gambled on the vaccines and played their cards right enough, it seems. The logistics of the NHS/Forces is looking pretty flawless here (Morecambe Bay CCG, got "teacher's pet" points in last night's briefing from Johnson).

No doses going to waste - what's left at the end of the day goes to anyone they can get their hands on in the hospital. I can only speak for this area, but now is not the time to find fault. 

Arm's a bit sore now.

Post edited at 19:16
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Got a hospital appointment in mid Feb late in the day (6pm), maybe I should walk past the vaccination centre on the way out :D

 Stichtplate 16 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

> >  Tired, but nothing unusual considering we ran a couple of calls that night. 

> You poor lamb. Was that to stop the bed sores?

> 😜

Aww...give him a break he's out in Arizona (?) or somewhere, slightly longer run times than 10 minutes into Blackpool Vic ;-)

 Chopper 16 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Are there any on this thread in Wales who have had there vaccination? I've heard that Wales is lagging and I was told today of an 82 year old lady who has not got an appointment until 23rd March despite being in the eligible group, and that the Welsh government claiming that everyone in the first four groups would be vaccinated by 15th February.

In reply to Stichtplate:

Blackpool...not a city firefighter then..😉

 Chopper 16 Jan 2021

Any feedback on my question?

 Stichtplate 16 Jan 2021
In reply to Chopper:

Got an 82 YO father in law with severe respiratory conditions (on home oxygen 16 hours a day). Lives in North Wales and no sign of a vaccination date yet. According to their GP there’s none to be had. Not good.

 Chopper 16 Jan 2021
 mik82 17 Jan 2021
In reply to Chopper:

>Are there any on this thread in Wales who have had there vaccination?

I had one in late December - no issues

Locally the GP practices were getting their first stocks of the Oxford/AZ vaccine last week. The limiting factor is the number of vaccines available. My practice could easily vaccinate its 300 or so over 80s in a single day but only got 100 vaccines, so were limited to just doing a few hours this morning.

Cumulatively, for the last day for which there's data for all nations (14th Jan) England had vaccinated 5%, and Wales 4%, so not too far behind.

Post edited at 00:32
 wildebeeste 17 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Gimme a break, this hero shits not easy. You ever tried 8 straight hours in a lazy boy?

 The Lemming 17 Jan 2021
In reply to wildebeeste:

> Gimme a break, this hero shits not easy. You ever tried 8 straight hours in a lazy boy?

Once.

It was heaven on earth.

😀

 wildebeeste 17 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Are you on right now? Be safe 👊

 The Lemming 17 Jan 2021
In reply to wildebeeste:

Yep.

One more to go and then I can sit at home for four days and enjoy lockdown with nowhere to go.

Living the dream.

 wildebeeste 17 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Yeah we’re lucky to have outdoor recreation locally. I’m skiing this four day. 25% capacity, limited food and drink. Not a great snow year but they are open.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Arm's a bit sore now

Please don't let this put anyone off, but the side effects of the Oxford vaccine are remarkably like the mild case of covid I had a few months back, plus the dead arm. Given that this monkey virus doesn't replicate, I'm sure it'll be short-lived, but my immune system is definitely up to something very similar to what it did when real coronavirus was on the scene! If you're thinking of running a marathon or doing loads of shoulder presses the day after, you might want to postpone that...

 gethin_allen 17 Jan 2021
In reply to Anoetic:

> Yes, agreed they all target the same spike protein. The Pfizer is an MRNA vaccine and not a weakened virus like the Zeneca one..

The Oxford/AZ vaccine isn't an attenuated virus vaccine it's a benign engineered vaccine.

An attenuated virus vaccine is the actual virus that you are trying to immunise against that has been treated chemically or biologically to be less pathogenic. In the case of the Oxford/AZ vaccine they have taken a common benign virus (adenovirus I think) and added the DNA which encodes the SARS CoV2 spike protein so that this protein is displayed and triggers an immune response tricking the immune system into thinking it's been infected with the real SARS CoV2.

 Stichtplate 17 Jan 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Anecdotal but a staff Facebook group has it that people with a prior history of infection are more likely to suffer some sort of reaction. Not heard of anyone suffering more than a day or two of very mild symptoms.

In reply to Stichtplate:

Interesting, thanks. The consent form tells you that more than 1 in 10 (or something) will get a sore arm and mild fever, I'm not too surprised. Think last time I had a vaccine (many moons ago) I felt shite the day after.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Please don't let this put anyone off, but the side effects of the Oxford vaccine are remarkably like the mild case of covid I had a few months back, plus the dead arm. Given that this monkey virus doesn't replicate, I'm sure it'll be short-lived, but my immune system is definitely up to something very similar to what it did when real coronavirus was on the scene! If you're thinking of running a marathon or doing loads of shoulder presses the day after, you might want to postpone that...

Update: I had the job Saturday 5.00pm, felt shite with the mild fever, headache and fatigue just like covid all Sunday. Was basically alright yesterday (headache, but I've been getting stress-related headaches from pandemic work shit anyway). Felt fine today.

Manager rings me up to say that half the guys who had the vaccine on Monday have called in sick - and the other two are flagging and looking pasty.

So, plan to feel like absolute crap for 24h after the Oxford jab, it seems to be extremely common.

Post edited at 22:47
 Lankyman 20 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

My Mum got her vaccination yesterday, two days earlier than scheduled. She'd driven over to check the route and went in on the offchance and got done there and then. She said it was the Pfizer version. Symptoms so far? Talking about it at length seems to be the main one .....

In reply to Lankyman:

I had to smile at the TV news clip where they interviewed the first guy to be inoculated in India as he came out and his verdict was "feeling much better already".

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I think they've got a big issue with uptake there (e.g. conspiracy theories about it containing beef) so will probably be asking people to say something really positive-sounding even if it doesn't make much sense.

Post edited at 11:08
 drunken monkey 20 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

Just coming back to this thread. My wife (Nurse) got her first Pfizer vaccination on 7th Jan.

Since then she's had headaches, dizzyness, vertigo, and generally felt like proper shite. A couple of the days after the vaccination date she was largely bed bound for an entire day. She's referred herself online to our doctors and awaits feedback on whether she will need to go in for a check up.

Should be noted that she gets tested every week for Covid and remains negative.

 Lord_ash2000 20 Jan 2021
In reply to The Lemming:

94 year old grandmother in law had the vaccine last week, died of covid last night in her care home. 

It was detected in the care home a little while back so she likely already had it but wasn't yet showing symptoms yet. So looks like the vaccine was probably too late to stop it. She had major dementia and was on her way out anyway so it's probably a blessing really, her alternative was eventually forgetting how to eat and starving to death. 

 r0b 20 Jan 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

My GF (NHS) had the vaccine on Monday and felt rough enough yesterday to have to stay home sick. With her colleagues seems about 50:50 those who were fine and those who had the side effects.

 The Lemming 20 Jan 2021
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

I am so sorry to hear that your grandmother died. Please accept my condolencies.


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