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Grunted my way up this on Saturday, got the onsight but grrr... it was hard work....
Maybe I was tired after a long day but I found it quite tricky and some of the moves difficult to read so ended up putting in loads of pro which is obviously tiring....
So have I just shown poor style on a soft touch, or is it hard for the grade.... ??
Maybe I was tired after a long day but I found it quite tricky and some of the moves difficult to read so ended up putting in loads of pro which is obviously tiring....
So have I just shown poor style on a soft touch, or is it hard for the grade.... ??
In reply to ClimberEd:
The HVS groove? Apart from a reach dependent move near the bottom it's pretty straightforward jamming and bridging. Always thought it was low in the grade.
ALC
The HVS groove? Apart from a reach dependent move near the bottom it's pretty straightforward jamming and bridging. Always thought it was low in the grade.
ALC
In reply to ClimberEd:
Got to say I found it pretty stiff, but I'm too short to use the good holds out to the edges of the grove that everyone I know uses. If you tackle it as a face climb/ finger jam it's pretty hard going. (before anyone asks I couldn't make the bridges to the good holds further out in the groove, legs are just too short!)
Got to say I found it pretty stiff, but I'm too short to use the good holds out to the edges of the grove that everyone I know uses. If you tackle it as a face climb/ finger jam it's pretty hard going. (before anyone asks I couldn't make the bridges to the good holds further out in the groove, legs are just too short!)
In reply to ClimberEd: its not as hard as it is sustained. you will be fine on it if you have stamina and deft foot work. i'd say the grade is right on the money.
one of the best hvs I have climbed for a while
one of the best hvs I have climbed for a while
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I agree, led it several times, in my opinion it's certainly not undergraded.
> ...i'd say the grade is right on the money.
I agree, led it several times, in my opinion it's certainly not undergraded.
In reply to ClimberEd: I did it on Friday, twice. I'm 5.7 and found no long reaches.
I placed loads of gear, always from rests. There was a hands off rest between each move. When I couldn't get my feet up onto a hold, I climbed it as a chimney. I would say most HVS cracks in the peak are far harder.
I think I remember it being considered the easiest HVS in Wales at one point, partly because it was so safe.
VS 5a?
I placed loads of gear, always from rests. There was a hands off rest between each move. When I couldn't get my feet up onto a hold, I climbed it as a chimney. I would say most HVS cracks in the peak are far harder.
I think I remember it being considered the easiest HVS in Wales at one point, partly because it was so safe.
VS 5a?
In reply to ClimberEd:
VS 5a?!
I thought it was desperate when I did it. Which is pretty much what I expected as I was wearing a pair of these: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/galibier/super-guide/
For those who may wonder why, I had a point to prove as I'd previously failed on Cenotaph Corner in them. It was also my birthday (which, tbh, probably had more to do with it as I'd been warming up in the Faenol beforehand.)
Dave
VS 5a?!
I thought it was desperate when I did it. Which is pretty much what I expected as I was wearing a pair of these: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/galibier/super-guide/
For those who may wonder why, I had a point to prove as I'd previously failed on Cenotaph Corner in them. It was also my birthday (which, tbh, probably had more to do with it as I'd been warming up in the Faenol beforehand.)
Dave
In reply to Dave Williams: But, you did do it, so respeckt...
In reply to Dave Williams:
I failed on it twice before doing it some years later. It was one of those routes I just read wrongly.
Some years after, I followed it in boots similar to yours with water streaming down it and had no problems, apart from the water running down my sleeves.
I failed on it twice before doing it some years later. It was one of those routes I just read wrongly.
Some years after, I followed it in boots similar to yours with water streaming down it and had no problems, apart from the water running down my sleeves.
In reply to ClimberEd:
I found it steady jamming bridgeing and not hard for HVS but I've met plenty of folk who have found it desperate.
I found it steady jamming bridgeing and not hard for HVS but I've met plenty of folk who have found it desperate.
In reply to ClimberEd:
Interesting feedback, thanks guys. I just found it really knackering as I felt very insecure the whole way up so was lacing it..... I agree no one hard move but the hads off rests still required active bridging...
Interesting feedback, thanks guys. I just found it really knackering as I felt very insecure the whole way up so was lacing it..... I agree no one hard move but the hads off rests still required active bridging...
In reply to ClimberEd:
you certainly can place a lot of gear!!
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> Interesting feedback, thanks guys. I just found it really knackering as I felt very insecure the whole way up so was lacing it.....
>
> Interesting feedback, thanks guys. I just found it really knackering as I felt very insecure the whole way up so was lacing it.....
you certainly can place a lot of gear!!
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
yeah but none of it felt good, although I'm sure it was..... am convinced that being knackered downgrades the 1-5 rating by 2 points....
yeah but none of it felt good, although I'm sure it was..... am convinced that being knackered downgrades the 1-5 rating by 2 points....
In reply to ClimberEd: did you use double ropes? I did and I would certainly recommend doing so to anyone thinking of climbing it to benefit from the placements on the left hand side though most of the placements were in the back of the crack or to the right slightly.
is that too much beta?
is that too much beta?
In reply to ClimberEd:
Easy for the grade. Compare eg Strapiombo at Tremadog. You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
jcm
Easy for the grade. Compare eg Strapiombo at Tremadog. You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> Easy for the grade. Compare eg Strapiombo at Tremadog. You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
>
Agree about comparison to Strapiombo. A bit harsh about the laps at Goliath's Groove but fair...>
> Easy for the grade. Compare eg Strapiombo at Tremadog. You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
>
In reply to ClimberEd: Had heard it was hard and was mightly surprised when I found absolute piss. But then I like Jamming...
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Haha quite possibly true, other HVS' have been rather less of a challenge.....
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
>
>
> You're evidently just rubbish at this style of climbing, I fear. A few more laps of the bottom part of Goliath's Groove for you.
>
Haha quite possibly true, other HVS' have been rather less of a challenge.....
In reply to ClimberEd:
I did it many, many years ago. I thought it was sustained, but fair for the grade, but I am tall with long legs. Shortly after we were doing another route on the same crag when Eric Jones and Cliff Philips came along and soloed it, which put me in my place
I did it many, many years ago. I thought it was sustained, but fair for the grade, but I am tall with long legs. Shortly after we were doing another route on the same crag when Eric Jones and Cliff Philips came along and soloed it, which put me in my place
In reply to wilkesley:
In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, the top 2/3 of the pitch was very poorly protected. By about 15 years later it had dropped to being a fairly bog standard HVS 5a, albeit of sustained technical interest. I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, the top 2/3 of the pitch was very poorly protected. By about 15 years later it had dropped to being a fairly bog standard HVS 5a, albeit of sustained technical interest. I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I did it in about 1970, it was a big tick route at the time, 'easiest XS in the Pass' - and don't remember much about it, must have found it easy! Time for a rematch...
In reply to ClimberEd:
What do you mean by saying that the rests involved "active bridging"?
Although it's sustained in the sense that every move is technically interesting, after every move or two, you can stand in balance, compose yourself for as long as you like and place loads of brilliant gear.
It was one of my first HVSs, I absolutely stitched it up and took ages, but didn't find any of the climbing particularly hard. As suggested if you found it really hard work then don't go near Strapiombo!
What do you mean by saying that the rests involved "active bridging"?
Although it's sustained in the sense that every move is technically interesting, after every move or two, you can stand in balance, compose yourself for as long as you like and place loads of brilliant gear.
It was one of my first HVSs, I absolutely stitched it up and took ages, but didn't find any of the climbing particularly hard. As suggested if you found it really hard work then don't go near Strapiombo!
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
its polished in parts due to its proximity to the road and it's reputation I think
> (In reply to wilkesley)
>
> In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, ....I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
>
> In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, ....I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
its polished in parts due to its proximity to the road and it's reputation I think
In reply to wilkesley:
A group of us once watched Al Harris solo it with a mixture of fear, horror and fascination. Thing is, he climbed it with a baby carrier on his back, complete with baby. (Rumour had it that it was his son, but I can't be sure.) He then calmly soloed back down the first pitch of Brant.
Imagine the moral outcry on UKC and elsewhere if someone did this now, let alone the inevitable involvement of the authorities. Times were certainly *different* then ....
The brightest flame burned the quickest and a few months later Alan Russell Harris of Bigil, Dinorwig, died in a horrific car crash on the A5 in Capel Curig.
Dave
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> I did it many, many years ago. I thought it was sustained, but fair for the grade, but I am tall with long legs. Shortly after we were doing another route on the same crag when Eric Jones and Cliff Philips came along and soloed it, which put me in my place
>
> I did it many, many years ago. I thought it was sustained, but fair for the grade, but I am tall with long legs. Shortly after we were doing another route on the same crag when Eric Jones and Cliff Philips came along and soloed it, which put me in my place
A group of us once watched Al Harris solo it with a mixture of fear, horror and fascination. Thing is, he climbed it with a baby carrier on his back, complete with baby. (Rumour had it that it was his son, but I can't be sure.) He then calmly soloed back down the first pitch of Brant.
Imagine the moral outcry on UKC and elsewhere if someone did this now, let alone the inevitable involvement of the authorities. Times were certainly *different* then ....
The brightest flame burned the quickest and a few months later Alan Russell Harris of Bigil, Dinorwig, died in a horrific car crash on the A5 in Capel Curig.
Dave
In reply to Dave Williams:
Great tale. RIP ARH. I never knew him, but I remember him every time I drive up to NW and pass the hotel in CC, whose name escapes me just now.
jcm
Great tale. RIP ARH. I never knew him, but I remember him every time I drive up to NW and pass the hotel in CC, whose name escapes me just now.
jcm
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> What do you mean by saying that the rests involved "active bridging"?
>
> I meant I was having to actively stay in balance rather than just being able to slump....
>
> What do you mean by saying that the rests involved "active bridging"?
>
> I meant I was having to actively stay in balance rather than just being able to slump....
In reply to sutty:
When I first led it I had the opposite problem. It was blazing hot; the jams were disconcertingly insecure and sweaty and my feet were agony. You can't fault the gear though.
> (In reply to Dave Williams)
> Some years after, I followed it in boots similar to yours with water streaming down it and had no problems, apart from the water running down my sleeves.
When I first led it I had the opposite problem. It was blazing hot; the jams were disconcertingly insecure and sweaty and my feet were agony. You can't fault the gear though.
In reply to Dave Williams:
'Shamefully I understood the only blasphemy: to wilfully jeopardize my life...' John Long: The Only Blasphemy.
Cheer up, John, it could be worse. You could have wilfully jeopardized a child's life.
> >
> A group of us once watched Al Harris solo it with a mixture of fear, horror and fascination. Thing is, he climbed it with a baby carrier on his back, complete with baby.
> A group of us once watched Al Harris solo it with a mixture of fear, horror and fascination. Thing is, he climbed it with a baby carrier on his back, complete with baby.
'Shamefully I understood the only blasphemy: to wilfully jeopardize my life...' John Long: The Only Blasphemy.
Cheer up, John, it could be worse. You could have wilfully jeopardized a child's life.
In reply to ClimberEd:
A mate of mine always insisted that it was easier facing out...
It was certainly XS way back, so I'm surprised it's HVS (or VS... ) now. Don't grades trend upwards nowadays?
A mate of mine always insisted that it was easier facing out...
It was certainly XS way back, so I'm surprised it's HVS (or VS... ) now. Don't grades trend upwards nowadays?
In reply to JTM:
Not surprising it felt like XS facing out and in nails ! Facing in, in modern shoes its pretty mid grade HVS.
Not surprising it felt like XS facing out and in nails ! Facing in, in modern shoes its pretty mid grade HVS.
In reply to wilkesley:
When I last did it Ron Fawcett had just done Cockblock. I thought he might want to solo off up Brant so I offered him to go through before I did.
"it's OK mate I'll just go down this way" - down BD!
I've always thought of it as standard HVS by the way.
When I last did it Ron Fawcett had just done Cockblock. I thought he might want to solo off up Brant so I offered him to go through before I did.
"it's OK mate I'll just go down this way" - down BD!
I've always thought of it as standard HVS by the way.
In reply to ClimberEd:
I led it as one of my first HVSs in about 1974 and it didn't seem much different to the VSs I'd done. I then seconded it in about 1994 after barely climbing for ten years and it felt about E2! Truth is it's probably bog standard HVS 5a.Pro is pretty good.
I led it as one of my first HVSs in about 1974 and it didn't seem much different to the VSs I'd done. I then seconded it in about 1994 after barely climbing for ten years and it felt about E2! Truth is it's probably bog standard HVS 5a.Pro is pretty good.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I too first climbed it in 1968, using a hemp waistlength, 3 slings and hawser full-weight rope, and it was graded an easy Extreme! Personally i always found the top little groove harder. There was a B&W photo on the wall in the Vaynol taken at the time.
> (In reply to wilkesley)
>
> In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, the top 2/3 of the pitch was very poorly protected. By about 15 years later it had dropped to being a fairly bog standard HVS 5a, albeit of sustained technical interest. I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
>
> In 1968, when I first did it, it was a much bigger undertaking, as, without modern nuts, the top 2/3 of the pitch was very poorly protected. By about 15 years later it had dropped to being a fairly bog standard HVS 5a, albeit of sustained technical interest. I imagine with the latest sticky boots, and even better gear, it's now even easier.
I too first climbed it in 1968, using a hemp waistlength, 3 slings and hawser full-weight rope, and it was graded an easy Extreme! Personally i always found the top little groove harder. There was a B&W photo on the wall in the Vaynol taken at the time.
In reply to ClimberEd: did it in 1970, as my first "extreme" I think. used three runners. only had 4 so saved one for the belay. we didn't want to finish up Brant so we abbed off the tree. I found it about VS TBH. we didn't know how to ab so I went hand over hand down the rope for 80' - trouble was it was 90' to the ground. the last bit hurt. did Cenotaph Corner next day, free, used 6 runners, we borrowed some. soloed out from the top.
In reply to ClimberEd: soft touch HVS i would've thought. plenty of gear now and just a matter of making weird shapes to the top. maybe easier for the tall?
In reply to Sean Kelly:
Fascinating, because John and I likewise had hemp waistlines, a few slings and a Viking no.4 hawser-laid rope. Yes, it was graded 'Extremely Severe, but only just'(!) I got in quite a lot of trouble on the last few moves and nearly fell off, in which case I would have decked it, because my last runner (at half height) - a sling over a shallow spike - had fallen off. Yes, I have a vague memory of that picture. We had an equally desperate time on Spectre and Kaisergebirge Wall, mostly because it was a blisteringly hot summer and, long before the days of chalk, the finger holds got incredibly sweaty. Plus we had utterly unsticky Masters boots.
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> [...]
>
> I too first climbed it in 1968, using a hemp waistlength, 3 slings and hawser full-weight rope, and it was graded an easy Extreme! Personally i always found the top little groove harder. There was a B&W photo on the wall in the Vaynol taken at the time.
> [...]
>
> I too first climbed it in 1968, using a hemp waistlength, 3 slings and hawser full-weight rope, and it was graded an easy Extreme! Personally i always found the top little groove harder. There was a B&W photo on the wall in the Vaynol taken at the time.
Fascinating, because John and I likewise had hemp waistlines, a few slings and a Viking no.4 hawser-laid rope. Yes, it was graded 'Extremely Severe, but only just'(!) I got in quite a lot of trouble on the last few moves and nearly fell off, in which case I would have decked it, because my last runner (at half height) - a sling over a shallow spike - had fallen off. Yes, I have a vague memory of that picture. We had an equally desperate time on Spectre and Kaisergebirge Wall, mostly because it was a blisteringly hot summer and, long before the days of chalk, the finger holds got incredibly sweaty. Plus we had utterly unsticky Masters boots.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Old style rack here;
http://www.climbingaustralia.com.au/profiles/blogs/are-sport-climbs-the
Old style rack here;
http://www.climbingaustralia.com.au/profiles/blogs/are-sport-climbs-the
In reply to sutty:
Here of some shots from 1968-spring1969:
John leading Avalanche Wall at Curbar. Hemp waistline, breeches, Masters boots and almost no gear.
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/03-JatCurbarEdge-Sept68.jpg
John on Quad Crack, Curbar, carrying about 4 nuts:
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/04J_QuadCrack_68.jpg
J leading 2nd pitch of Holly Tree Wall (VS), Idwal, in big boots.
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/09JleadingHollyTreeWall69.jpg
J on about the last pitch of Main Wall on Cyrn Las. Note Tarbuck knot too:
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/12-jtravMainWall.jpg
J on first pitch of Bel Ami, Curbar. No gear ...
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/14-JleadingBelAmi-April69.jpg
Here of some shots from 1968-spring1969:
John leading Avalanche Wall at Curbar. Hemp waistline, breeches, Masters boots and almost no gear.
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/03-JatCurbarEdge-Sept68.jpg
John on Quad Crack, Curbar, carrying about 4 nuts:
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/04J_QuadCrack_68.jpg
J leading 2nd pitch of Holly Tree Wall (VS), Idwal, in big boots.
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/09JleadingHollyTreeWall69.jpg
J on about the last pitch of Main Wall on Cyrn Las. Note Tarbuck knot too:
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/12-jtravMainWall.jpg
J on first pitch of Bel Ami, Curbar. No gear ...
http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/1968gear/14-JleadingBelAmi-April69.jpg
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
[Apologies in advance for a brief thread hijack!]
Pleased you enjoyed the tale. Here's another:
We were returning to Deiniolen via the Fachwen road one afternoon and we were stopped from carrying on by a lad who I recognised as being one of 'Arris' mates. Before he had a chance to have a word with us an Escort van appeared, travelling very fast towards us. One 360 handbrake turn later and the van, with Al Harris at the wheel, was heading back up to Deiniolen, engine screaming and tyres squealing. The explanation was that someone had, once again, challenged him to a timed race up and down the Fachwen road. Being sensible(!!), they'd decided to close the road while the time-trial took place. It was Al who won. He usually did. I can't remember the times he used to set for doing the Fachwen road both ways, but they were unbelievably quick.
Following complaints from the locals (whose patience was often stretched way beyond breaking point), the police could sometimes be found lurking in force on the Fachwen road, hoping to catch one or more of the Deiniolen Dole Team up to their antics.
AIR, vans were very popular. For a while Cliff Phillips had a black minivan with wide wheels, allegedly fitted with the engine out of a Cooper S.
[OK, back to Brant Direct....]
Dave
> (In reply to Dave Williams)
>
> Great tale. RIP ARH. I never knew him, but I remember him every time I drive up to NW and pass the hotel in CC, whose name escapes me just now.
>
> jcm
>
> Great tale. RIP ARH. I never knew him, but I remember him every time I drive up to NW and pass the hotel in CC, whose name escapes me just now.
>
> jcm
[Apologies in advance for a brief thread hijack!]
Pleased you enjoyed the tale. Here's another:
We were returning to Deiniolen via the Fachwen road one afternoon and we were stopped from carrying on by a lad who I recognised as being one of 'Arris' mates. Before he had a chance to have a word with us an Escort van appeared, travelling very fast towards us. One 360 handbrake turn later and the van, with Al Harris at the wheel, was heading back up to Deiniolen, engine screaming and tyres squealing. The explanation was that someone had, once again, challenged him to a timed race up and down the Fachwen road. Being sensible(!!), they'd decided to close the road while the time-trial took place. It was Al who won. He usually did. I can't remember the times he used to set for doing the Fachwen road both ways, but they were unbelievably quick.
Following complaints from the locals (whose patience was often stretched way beyond breaking point), the police could sometimes be found lurking in force on the Fachwen road, hoping to catch one or more of the Deiniolen Dole Team up to their antics.
AIR, vans were very popular. For a while Cliff Phillips had a black minivan with wide wheels, allegedly fitted with the engine out of a Cooper S.
[OK, back to Brant Direct....]
Dave
In reply to Dave Williams:
A mate of mine fitted mattresses to both sides of his van when he drove up in under 2 minutes!
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
> [...]
>
>
> [Apologies in advance for a brief thread hijack!]
>
> Pleased you enjoyed the tale. Here's another:
>
> We were returning to Deiniolen via the Fachwen road one afternoon and we were stopped from carrying on by a lad who I recognised as being one of 'Arris' mates. Before he had a chance to have a word with us an Escort van appeared, travelling very fast towards us. One 360 handbrake turn later and the van, with Al Harris at the wheel, was heading back up to Deiniolen, engine screaming and tyres squealing. The explanation was that someone had, once again, challenged him to a timed race up and down the Fachwen road. Being sensible(!!), they'd decided to close the road while the time-trial took place. It was Al who won. He usually did. I can't remember the times he used to set for doing the Fachwen road both ways, but they were unbelievably quick.
>
> Following complaints from the locals (whose patience was often stretched way beyond breaking point), the police could sometimes be found lurking in force on the Fachwen road, hoping to catch one or more of the Deiniolen Dole Team up to their antics.
>
> AIR, vans were very popular. For a while Cliff Phillips had a black minivan with wide wheels, allegedly fitted with the engine out of a Cooper S.
>
> [OK, back to Brant Direct....]
>
>
> Dave
> [...]
>
>
> [Apologies in advance for a brief thread hijack!]
>
> Pleased you enjoyed the tale. Here's another:
>
> We were returning to Deiniolen via the Fachwen road one afternoon and we were stopped from carrying on by a lad who I recognised as being one of 'Arris' mates. Before he had a chance to have a word with us an Escort van appeared, travelling very fast towards us. One 360 handbrake turn later and the van, with Al Harris at the wheel, was heading back up to Deiniolen, engine screaming and tyres squealing. The explanation was that someone had, once again, challenged him to a timed race up and down the Fachwen road. Being sensible(!!), they'd decided to close the road while the time-trial took place. It was Al who won. He usually did. I can't remember the times he used to set for doing the Fachwen road both ways, but they were unbelievably quick.
>
> Following complaints from the locals (whose patience was often stretched way beyond breaking point), the police could sometimes be found lurking in force on the Fachwen road, hoping to catch one or more of the Deiniolen Dole Team up to their antics.
>
> AIR, vans were very popular. For a while Cliff Phillips had a black minivan with wide wheels, allegedly fitted with the engine out of a Cooper S.
>
> [OK, back to Brant Direct....]
>
>
> Dave
A mate of mine fitted mattresses to both sides of his van when he drove up in under 2 minutes!
In reply to Dave Williams:
Another Fachwen story.
Lucas and me were in his van, another Lucas 3 months and flog it special. I was told to drive it there but Lucas was horrified when I took the handbrake off, it was coupled to the hydraulics on the front only so brakes did not work with handbrake off.
That sets the scene.
Over the weekend part of the suspension collapses so we repair it with a jemmy bar and some old rope, well needs must.
Next we meet some London climbers who have crashed their vehicle and are stuck for getting home so Lucas arranges us a lift home and gives them the van, with full instructions on how to repair the suspension if it comes loose and not to take the handbrake off.
Ok, who has he got us a lift with, well one of Harrises mates from Liverpool we had met at a party at Sues the night before. We get a lift up there, then Eric, think his name may have to be changed drives down the road trying to emulate Harris, clipping one wall, good start.
Somewhere near Betws y Coed we get a puncture, oh dear, the spare is flat so AA is called. They take wheeel to sod knows where to get it fixed, they will only do one. Two hours later we are on our way again.
Just before Ruthin we get yet another puncture, damn. No bother, Eric is handing in his notice when he gets back, and the firms car with two flat tyres and dented wings, smart move.
We drive along slowly to avoid disturbing sleeping cows and sheep etc, then spy a car of the same model as ours. A plan is made to swap a wheel and leave the price of a new tyre with the old one. Car is jacked up, duvet is put over hubcap to stop noise of it being removed and eventually we put the money inside the hubcap, with a note on the windscreen saying sorry but it was an emergency.
Around 6am we arrive back in Manchester and the flat, about 8 hours after we left Llanberis. We never saw Eric again.
Another Fachwen story.
Lucas and me were in his van, another Lucas 3 months and flog it special. I was told to drive it there but Lucas was horrified when I took the handbrake off, it was coupled to the hydraulics on the front only so brakes did not work with handbrake off.
That sets the scene.
Over the weekend part of the suspension collapses so we repair it with a jemmy bar and some old rope, well needs must.
Next we meet some London climbers who have crashed their vehicle and are stuck for getting home so Lucas arranges us a lift home and gives them the van, with full instructions on how to repair the suspension if it comes loose and not to take the handbrake off.
Ok, who has he got us a lift with, well one of Harrises mates from Liverpool we had met at a party at Sues the night before. We get a lift up there, then Eric, think his name may have to be changed drives down the road trying to emulate Harris, clipping one wall, good start.
Somewhere near Betws y Coed we get a puncture, oh dear, the spare is flat so AA is called. They take wheeel to sod knows where to get it fixed, they will only do one. Two hours later we are on our way again.
Just before Ruthin we get yet another puncture, damn. No bother, Eric is handing in his notice when he gets back, and the firms car with two flat tyres and dented wings, smart move.
We drive along slowly to avoid disturbing sleeping cows and sheep etc, then spy a car of the same model as ours. A plan is made to swap a wheel and leave the price of a new tyre with the old one. Car is jacked up, duvet is put over hubcap to stop noise of it being removed and eventually we put the money inside the hubcap, with a note on the windscreen saying sorry but it was an emergency.
Around 6am we arrive back in Manchester and the flat, about 8 hours after we left Llanberis. We never saw Eric again.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Fairly sure this was the first route I led that was HVS in the current guidebook (several routes I led earlier have since been regraded from VS to HVS). This would have been 1976 (I can remember the date as it was my first meet with the OUMC) and it the time it had a reputation for being a good introduction to HVS. I've always thought it pretty much middle of the grade for a well protected route
In reply to ClimberEd:
Did it in 1974. Seemed OK. Was belayed by a guy from the Lakes called Ray, who said, "I'll belay you - but I'm not leaving the ground!" And, bless him, he was as good as his word.
While I was wandering around on top, scratching my head for a second, a couple of Ray's mates came around the corner and were duly offered their chance at Brant Direct. One of them, an obvious space cadet (sorry, John!) grabbed the end of the rope and hurled himself upwards with (as I would later learn) characteristically various results. The other sat back with Ray and chuckled. Thus was my introduction to John Whittock (sp?) and Andy Parkin.
Mick
Did it in 1974. Seemed OK. Was belayed by a guy from the Lakes called Ray, who said, "I'll belay you - but I'm not leaving the ground!" And, bless him, he was as good as his word.
While I was wandering around on top, scratching my head for a second, a couple of Ray's mates came around the corner and were duly offered their chance at Brant Direct. One of them, an obvious space cadet (sorry, John!) grabbed the end of the rope and hurled himself upwards with (as I would later learn) characteristically various results. The other sat back with Ray and chuckled. Thus was my introduction to John Whittock (sp?) and Andy Parkin.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward: Brant Direct was my first Extreme in Wales in the late sixties. I found it easy but foolishly then took that to be a sign that I could get up Cenotaph Corner. I couldn't and failed with spectacular results.
Al
Al
In reply to ClimberEd:
>
The former, I'm afraid.
>
> So have I just shown poor style on a soft touch, or is it hard for the grade.... ??
The former, I'm afraid.
In reply to ClimberEd: did this last weekend and thought it quite easy for hvs (good though).
In reply to Si dH:
haha guess it makes up for cruising Right Unconquerable last summer......
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
> [...]
>
> The former, I'm afraid.
> [...]
>
> The former, I'm afraid.
haha guess it makes up for cruising Right Unconquerable last summer......
In reply to Mick Ward:
> One of them, an obvious space cadet (sorry, John!) grabbed the end of the rope and hurled himself upwards with (as I would later learn) characteristically various results. The other sat back with Ray and chuckled. Thus was my introduction to John Whittock (sp?) and Andy Parkin.
>
Correct spelling! I've seen those 'characteristically various results' many times. JW can make an E1 look like a VS or a VS look like an E1, depending on the day and the mood - and sometimes depending on the night before... (sorry, John!) :0)>
In reply to ClimberEd:
Might as well add my two penn'orth....was the first route we did in Wales, July 1968, having just arrived from Bolton on the back of a mate's wagon (scrap metal dealer). We pitched our tents by the bridge, and went straight onto BD. It was an iconic route at the time, a photo of it having featured in Rock Climbers in Action (published 1966), and it was also, I recall, in an advert for (I think) Viking ropes. But it did have the reputation of being the easiest Extreme in the Pass, so was an obvious choice for a bunch of teenagers (I was 17) brought up in the Lacashire quarries and Peak outcrops with a point to prove. I think we had hemp waistlines, but did have a selection of nuts (including MOACs plus home-turned items). I don't recall it feeling particularly hard at the time but we were high as kites and, I guess, pretty fit. I led it again the week before last, 43 years on, and, notwithstanding the fact I was climbing like a bog on wheels, felt that HVS 5a was fair. Brilliant route.
Might as well add my two penn'orth....was the first route we did in Wales, July 1968, having just arrived from Bolton on the back of a mate's wagon (scrap metal dealer). We pitched our tents by the bridge, and went straight onto BD. It was an iconic route at the time, a photo of it having featured in Rock Climbers in Action (published 1966), and it was also, I recall, in an advert for (I think) Viking ropes. But it did have the reputation of being the easiest Extreme in the Pass, so was an obvious choice for a bunch of teenagers (I was 17) brought up in the Lacashire quarries and Peak outcrops with a point to prove. I think we had hemp waistlines, but did have a selection of nuts (including MOACs plus home-turned items). I don't recall it feeling particularly hard at the time but we were high as kites and, I guess, pretty fit. I led it again the week before last, 43 years on, and, notwithstanding the fact I was climbing like a bog on wheels, felt that HVS 5a was fair. Brilliant route.
In reply to ClimberEd:
Brant Direct was my first ever lead in 1982 after having only toproped or soloed on Southern Sandstone. (OK, if I'm absolutely truthful, I was lead up Grooved Arete the day before).
Had to learn about gear (wedges on rope and some Clog Cogs) pretty sharpish. Done it quite a few times since then and would say the grading is right. Technically straightforward with excellent gear.
That paved the way for Cenotaph Corner the next day...
Brant Direct was my first ever lead in 1982 after having only toproped or soloed on Southern Sandstone. (OK, if I'm absolutely truthful, I was lead up Grooved Arete the day before).
Had to learn about gear (wedges on rope and some Clog Cogs) pretty sharpish. Done it quite a few times since then and would say the grading is right. Technically straightforward with excellent gear.
That paved the way for Cenotaph Corner the next day...
In reply to ClimberEd:
VS 5a. Althought it is sustained 5a all the way up, you can basically move and rest if you climb it well, and with each rest comes a new piece of gear. You don't really have to run it out much.
Good day to you sir.
VS 5a. Althought it is sustained 5a all the way up, you can basically move and rest if you climb it well, and with each rest comes a new piece of gear. You don't really have to run it out much.
Good day to you sir.
In reply to mlmatt:
That's not been a definition of VS for a very long time; and you are only 22!
bog standard HVS 5a
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
>
> Although it is sustained 5a all the way up, >
>
> Although it is sustained 5a all the way up, >
That's not been a definition of VS for a very long time; and you are only 22!
bog standard HVS 5a
In reply to kevin stephens:
I apologise, my ages is infact wrong in my online profile. I am not 22, but I really don't see what that has to do with it. If you look at my profile you'll see that I rarely update whats climbs I've done or my photographs. Maybe I should remove all the unnessessay information as apparently being 22 means that I'm not allowed a valid view point.
I should have chosen my words more carefully. There is a series of 5a moves up the groove, but one can take a good rest at various different points. There is very good gear and you can infact "stitch" route, should you feel it nessessary. There is no need to run it out high above your gear as you can make a move and place another piece. Other than a series of 5a moves I would not call the route sustained because one climbing it is in no danger of "pumping out" and falling off. I retract my earlier comment that it is "sustained".
So the route has good gear, low "fall off" potential and plenty of good rests. When compared to a route such as Britomaris (a classic HVS) or Dream of White Horses (classic HVS terrain) then the route shouldn't (in my opinion, which is currently what your taking issue with) be HVS. When it is compared to several other HVS 5a routes in the pass (Spectre and Black Spring), it is found wanting.
Maybe you should compare it to Noah's Warning, an especially stiff VS on the Comlech and then tell me that Brant Direct should still get the HVS tick.
I apologise, my ages is infact wrong in my online profile. I am not 22, but I really don't see what that has to do with it. If you look at my profile you'll see that I rarely update whats climbs I've done or my photographs. Maybe I should remove all the unnessessay information as apparently being 22 means that I'm not allowed a valid view point.
I should have chosen my words more carefully. There is a series of 5a moves up the groove, but one can take a good rest at various different points. There is very good gear and you can infact "stitch" route, should you feel it nessessary. There is no need to run it out high above your gear as you can make a move and place another piece. Other than a series of 5a moves I would not call the route sustained because one climbing it is in no danger of "pumping out" and falling off. I retract my earlier comment that it is "sustained".
So the route has good gear, low "fall off" potential and plenty of good rests. When compared to a route such as Britomaris (a classic HVS) or Dream of White Horses (classic HVS terrain) then the route shouldn't (in my opinion, which is currently what your taking issue with) be HVS. When it is compared to several other HVS 5a routes in the pass (Spectre and Black Spring), it is found wanting.
Maybe you should compare it to Noah's Warning, an especially stiff VS on the Comlech and then tell me that Brant Direct should still get the HVS tick.
In reply to mlmatt:
You are still wrong, otherwise I would not have had three goes before succeeding on it, even though we had few runners then.
I did Noah's warning several years earlier when I only had three sling runners and a Moac and though steep, is not in the same grade at all.
Spectre is harder, always was but somehow we managed that earlier as well, 1960/61, again no nuts but a peg was there then.
You are still wrong, otherwise I would not have had three goes before succeeding on it, even though we had few runners then.
I did Noah's warning several years earlier when I only had three sling runners and a Moac and though steep, is not in the same grade at all.
Spectre is harder, always was but somehow we managed that earlier as well, 1960/61, again no nuts but a peg was there then.
In reply to sutty:
You are entitle to your opinion, but if someone wanted an easy HVS then brant it is!
You are entitle to your opinion, but if someone wanted an easy HVS then brant it is!
In reply to sutty:
So you would agree that Brant Direct is as hard as Britomaris, or Dream or white horses for that matter?
So you would agree that Brant Direct is as hard as Britomaris, or Dream or white horses for that matter?
In reply to mlmatt:
That is an invalid line of argument, as a grade will encompass climbs of different difficulties.
> (In reply to sutty)
>
> So you would agree that Brant Direct is as hard as Britomaris, or Dream or white horses for that matter?
>
> So you would agree that Brant Direct is as hard as Britomaris, or Dream or white horses for that matter?
That is an invalid line of argument, as a grade will encompass climbs of different difficulties.
In reply to sutty:
Have to say Sutty that I thought Noah's a tough VS and Brant Direct a soft HVS - ie not much between them. Maybe its one of those routes where the moves are relatively easier in sticky boots? Its been a while since I did them though and cant remember very well. Spectre was indeed harder.
> (In reply to mlmatt)
>
> You are still wrong, otherwise I would not have had three goes before succeeding on it, even though we had few runners then.
> I did Noah's warning several years earlier when I only had three sling runners and a Moac and though steep, is not in the same grade at all.
>
> Spectre is harder, always was but somehow we managed that earlier as well, 1960/61, again no nuts but a peg was there then.
>
> You are still wrong, otherwise I would not have had three goes before succeeding on it, even though we had few runners then.
> I did Noah's warning several years earlier when I only had three sling runners and a Moac and though steep, is not in the same grade at all.
>
> Spectre is harder, always was but somehow we managed that earlier as well, 1960/61, again no nuts but a peg was there then.
Have to say Sutty that I thought Noah's a tough VS and Brant Direct a soft HVS - ie not much between them. Maybe its one of those routes where the moves are relatively easier in sticky boots? Its been a while since I did them though and cant remember very well. Spectre was indeed harder.
In reply to mlmatt:
Only that you would not have been climbing in the '60s or earlier when grades were much less defined than they are now
> (In reply to kevin stephens)
>
> I apologise, my ages is infact wrong in my online profile. I am not 22, but I really don't see what that has to do with it.
>
> I apologise, my ages is infact wrong in my online profile. I am not 22, but I really don't see what that has to do with it.
Only that you would not have been climbing in the '60s or earlier when grades were much less defined than they are now
In reply to kevin stephens:
It's nothing to do with the 'grades being less defined'. Actually the old adjectival grades were extremely subtle, as anyone who has seen the old Edwardsl/Moulam Ogwen guides will know. The big difference was that almost all the routes, before modern protection, modern sticky boots, double ropes and belay devices, were all much harder by modern standards. Typically by about a full adjectival grade.
It's nothing to do with the 'grades being less defined'. Actually the old adjectival grades were extremely subtle, as anyone who has seen the old Edwardsl/Moulam Ogwen guides will know. The big difference was that almost all the routes, before modern protection, modern sticky boots, double ropes and belay devices, were all much harder by modern standards. Typically by about a full adjectival grade.
In reply to ClimberEd:
I found it harder going than Wind but everything is subjective.
It seems the old school think it's bog standard and the modern nancy wall rats think it's hard...
I found it harder going than Wind but everything is subjective.
It seems the old school think it's bog standard and the modern nancy wall rats think it's hard...
In reply to Wilbur:
Wilbur, I resent that comment! I don't feel I should be clumped in with these "modern nancy wall rats" you speak of!
Wilbur, I resent that comment! I don't feel I should be clumped in with these "modern nancy wall rats" you speak of!
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