UKC

Hia,

(Reluctantly) Looking at via ferrata kits to buy - but just wondering whether a set of slings and crabs (obisouly the right ones, which I've got!), i.e. stuff I've already got - will do the job just as well...

I did once meet someone on a VF just using slings and crabs and that guy was laughing at us with the 'proper' stuff...

Looking for advice, recommendations and experience with diy ... 

I'm aware of the dynamic / static fall protection stuff, but - I mean - (come on!!?) how likely is one to fall on a VF AND, it wouldn't ever be far

TA!

In reply to Odselly:

A DIY sling job will do just fine so long as you don’t actually fall on it. If you do fall however things will likely get messy. Probably best just pick up proper kit from Decathon…

In reply to JLS:

Thank you for that! And, atm, that's one of my problems Decathon's sold out  

In reply to Odselly:

May do a test? Drop 70kg 3m onto your 22kn sling an see what happens.

In reply to Odselly:

You are not likely to fall, but if you use slings you will hit the ground.

In reply to biggianthead:

I’ve never been convinced by the forces being big enough to snap the slings in a reasonable worst case scenario in a moderately difficult VF. If you were to fall on a ladder section, I’d assume that I would manage to stick an arm out or get a leg caught up in something before the sling caught me. Now - I would assume I would be in a right mess, I would think I’ve probably broken an arm, dislocated a shoulder or similar but in sustaining these injuries I would have slowed myself down a bit. Add that to the fact I’m pretty bendy I would imagine I could absorb quite a lot of the energy. I’ll assume that I may break my back when I’m done he crabs catch and sustain whiplash.

Does anyone have any stories of people actually falling on home made VF kit and snapping the sling?

To be absolutely clear, I’ve just got back from a VF trip and I bought 2nd hand ones from folk on here for me and the family. So I’m not advocating making one yourself, but I’m. It sure it’s a certainty that the slings would snap.

In reply to Odselly:

Don't use slings on their own - insert skull and crossbones emoji! I hope the chap you met is still laughing and not a small memorial somewhere.

If you want to DIY, then you may still be able to get a friction plate and rig that with 11mm rope - some friends did that when we went to the Dolomites - I've not idea if you can still get the plates.

Another DIY option "might" be to put some 11mm rope on your krabs and then buy a screamer to link that to your harness, but I wouldn't recommend it.

In reply to ablackett:

Yeah, as far as I understand, it's likely that your body would absorb the the shock as the sling can't. But that is the problem. 3m vertical fall onto your harness would mess you up at least a bit.

In reply to Odselly:

A via ferrata fall frequently has the chance of a fall factor that vastly exceeds anything found in climbing.

The action of the specific vf carabiners is different to your snap gate and definitely something you want for the numerous times you will move between sections of the rope. 

I have done only a few vf so others definitely have more experience, but my experience is enough to never want to rig up a home grown solution.

In reply to Odselly:

Hope this is self explanatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOzhOs9SAws&

In reply to Odselly:

There are some wallies who go into the mountains, it sounds like you met one of them! 

Whether the slings would snap, or just give such a harsh fall that you would prefer Mile Tyson to have used your kidneys as punch bags is fairly irrelevant, there's a much greater risk of killing/ seriously injuring yourself in a fall.

Spinning leashes and so on are great, but not necessary. If you are in an area which has VFs you may be able to find one out there if struggling for availability over here?

In reply to Odselly:

I bought some recently. Cost me 75 euros. They are much nicer to use than a previous DIY set up. The (hopefully) obvious safety improvements aside, if you can afford some it will certainly make the VF more enjoyable.

In reply to biggianthead:

Nah, probably not.  When slings get broken in test drops that generally happens because the test weight is a solid block of metal, concrete or something like that.

A proper via ferrata set has stitching that breaks to absorb the shock and protect your body.  Using slings your bones, muscles and stringy bits will break to absorb the shock and protect the sling.

In reply to Odselly:

You can usually hire or buy at your destination, or quite possibly pick a set up second hand through this site.

As others have said a DIY setup is not a safe alternative to the proper kit. Also don't forget a helmet, as there is often a lot of loose material getting kicked off by others higher up the route.

In reply to Odselly:

20 years ago I made 3 lanyards for myself & teenage sons using the 'knuckleduster' style KISA in the video that Fredt linked, with a cut-down 11mm rope, as per the guidelines in the old Cicerone Dolomites VF book. I was happy I'd replicated the illustrated set-up, & also happy that their effectiveness was never tested!!

In reply to Odselly:I dont think you'll break a sling.  But given that if you do fall it will be onto static kit attached to your waist I'd suggest you stand on your table and then jump off, landing on the floor on your arse, no legs, and see if you think that's OK. 

Unless you manage to grab something on the way.  Personally I don't fancy it 

In reply to Thread:

Sorry, complete thread hijack but what are opinions on footwear? I currently only own Scarpa Mantas and barefoot shoes and fell running shoes and nothing in-between.

Never tried VF but the Mantas sound like overkill and prefer more flexible footwear when in the hills.

A day scrambling on rocks however?

In reply to Fredt:

Nice, thanks for posting that. I've got the blue Petzl one they tested (it passed), which is reassuring.

In reply to montyjohn:

I've done it in a very old pair of Mantas and they were great for the walk-in and a bit overkill for actually climbing.

Depends what you're going to do but a pair of lightweight boots/approach shoes would be more suitable.

In reply to Odselly:

Don't use a sling.

youtube.com/watch?v=H1cenvBcHMA&

In reply to Longsufferingropeholder:

Using a sling is not fine, you can generate up to fall factor 5 in a via Ferrara fall.

This testing information outlines the fall forces involved.

https://www.zgvs.si/novica/falls-via-ferratas/

In reply to montyjohn:

I'd wear running shoes out of those options. Most people do VF in some kind of trainers

In reply to montyjohn:

Mantas are too cumbersome for most of the sportier style via ferrata I've done in France and Spain, I tried using my Altra superiors and found them too flexible for my liking, my favourite are a pair of Scarpa Mojito. 

In reply to montyjohn:

I've done VFs in an ancient pair of Crux approach shoes, and in much newer Scarpa Zodiac Tech B1 boots. I found the Zodiacs much more comfortable than the very flexible Cruxes - far more supportive on small stemples, and good on the more mountainous approaches. My wife was perfectly happy with her Mescalitos though - but I think they're a bit stiffer than Cruxes.

In reply to Montyjohn: I got tired feet in trainers.  I'd agree with the Mantas being overkill , I like my Meacalito for this

In reply to Odselly:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet so I will. Via ferrata krabs are tested to a different standard than normal climbing krabs, my basic understanding is that they need to be better at being bent over an edge, which normal krabs aren't great at. This is because, depending on the design of the via ferrata cables, on a vertical section in the event of a fall the krab can end up being loaded in an odd position having just slammed into a wire crimp or an attachment to the rock. It's plausible you could snap a normal krabs in these circumstances.

That said, I have done via ferrata without a 'real' via ferrata kit. I've soloed them, done them moving together style with a rope/draws and done then using slings/normal krabs. I didn't fall off on any of those occasions.

If you accept the premise that a sling/normal krabs setup won't protect you on vertical sections, then it's worth considering if you want to take them atall. I have done in the past for a couple of reasons. They will effectively protect horizontal sections, including stuff like wire bridges which I'd maybe rather not solo. They also allow you to clip in to ladder rungs or bolts and sit on them to have a rest if you're tired.

So if you're confident you won't fall on the vertical sections, it's not necessarily a bad idea.

Another point is that actual via ferrata kits are nicer to use, the krabs open more easily to move to the next section, the elastic stuff gets in the way less than slings, so if you've got the money/space in your luggage you may as well. That said, I don't own one, because I don't do very many via ferrata and they are somewhat expensive.

In reply to Fredt:

As I said you will hit the ground

In reply to deepsoup:

You may be lucky enough for your body to stop, but your organs will keep going. I know two people who died from internal injuries due to the rapid deceleration in these circumstances. This is why VF kit and climbing ropes slow the body down gently.

In reply to biggianthead:

I agree with every word you've written there, as I think would be fairly obvious if you'd actually read my post.  I just don't think it's all that likely that your (quite possibly dead or dying) body would actually hit the ground.

*Survivably.  Nothing gentle about it in a significant fall, which is why it's a very bad idea to fall off a VF even with the proper kit.

In reply to deepsoup:

Yeah, the thought of actually falling on a via ferrata kit is pretty gnarly. I imagine it'll probably stop you dying but i'd definitely be expecting a trip to hospital! 

I wouldn't bother with a DIY lanyard as it adds only the illusion of safety, a worse option than just soloing.  

If you're going with a friend you could simul-climb it and leave a handful of sling runners or big hms biners on rungs between you, periodically meet up to give the leader back the gear. Even the option for a tongue in cheek "No gear, no falls!" homage, as you climb over some bewildered french tourists. 

In reply to Kemics:

I was about to suggest this. Did one of the saas fee ones in this style with two of us with about 5m of rope out between us. We were warming up for alpine style moving together so seemed like a good training opportunity. Worked fine but then we didn't fall off... 

In reply to Fellover:

Yeah, good luck with that, there's plenty of VFs with broken hardware on them and disposable holds. As a competent climber you'd have to be unlucky to take a fall as a result, but people's luck runs out all the time.  There's also the joy of freak weather - last year I did a VF on the shady side of a mountain on a sunny day and it was sopping wet due to all the moisture in the air condensing out on the rock.  Was supposed to be grade C but was desperate in multiple places as the smeary footholds were polished and wet. Someone came off in the group following us and massively grazed his arm, and someone else had to be helicoptered off lower down.

In reply to Alex Riley:

Assuming nothing fails or is already broken on the cable - I've been on high mountain routes where anchors have been pulled out by avalanches and there's 10m+ of cable to slide down before the next anchor.

In reply to buxtoncoffeelover:

I don't think you can buy the knuckledusters anymore. Even the manufacturer's friction devices such as the Petzl Zyper are hard to find now - it's all rip slings / screamers. There's probably a benefit to this insomuch as it's theoretically possible to have a rip sling for a particular bodyweight.

In reply to Odselly:

Using slings for running belays is a terrible idea for all the reasons mentioned above. However, I have once or twice soloed VF and worn a harness with a short sling in case I needed to rest my arms whilst waiting for other parties at a bottleneck or whatever

In reply to montyjohn:

Depends on the VF. On a classic Italian one high up in the Brenta you'll be walking for hours, possibly crossing snow patches and safe glaciers, and the VF sections are normally relatively easy technically. Hiking boots are the best thing for those, maybe the sort with a toe smearing section. The purpose-made VF boots are ideal.  On a hard valley 'sport' VF which takes 1/2 an hour with a tarmac walk down, sticky approach shoes will be best, or even rockboots/shoes. Once you get to grade D or E a 'climby' shoe is definitely useful - hiking boots simply don't fit on some of the holds.

Shoes/boots with a heel are definitely a good idea as they don't slip off ladder rungs and stemples so easily.

In reply to Toerag:

Disadvantage of the screamer type is that they're not reusable.

The older friction type should be reusable. Well the plate itself should be, doubt you'd be trusting that particular piece of rope and maybe not the loop to attach to your harness or the crabs.

And if you've taken a proper VF fall, you might not be feeling like ever doing any more anyway.

In reply to Michael Hood:

I deactivated the airbags in my car for the same reason

In reply to Odselly:

This old pearl. As someone who has been involved with designing kits:

VF kits are death prevention kits.

Normally biners are inadequate and will snap like a carrot in a side loading.

Reusable is pointless as you'll likely have bad injuries.

Rental kits are cheap and readily available.

Stop being a dumbass and take your own safety seriously.

In reply to montyjohn:

I wore Scarpa Zodiacs thinking they were overkill but they were actually really comfortable on long VFs and long rocky descents. Quite pleased to see a French guide with his group wearing exactly the same boots! 

Personally I think trainers would be too soft on big VFs

In reply to Michael Hood:

All of the older friction‑type VF kits' certs have been recalled and no longer fit the relevant certifications after DAV or ÖEAV or UIAA found that they just don't work in a satisfactory manner. You might be still able to buy just the friction brake device, but that's definitely not for VF use, just like ice or sport climbing screamers aren't meant for VF use.

The deceleration force on your body was often much higher than the safe maximum, depending on so many variables (like rope age, or just the very short 1m length of rope totally stiffening just from taking a previous fall, as we all know ropes loose elasticity after big falls). I wouldn't call taking a FF5 second time on what's potentially now a static rope "reusable"...

Meanwhile, the modern stitch‑and‑tear are quite often perfectly "reusable" – at least able to take one another such fall in actual tests, as they don't usually tear the whole way. You might still be able to top out or at least retreat safely even after a fall on them (unless you haven't called in the copter cause you impaled your lung on a rung, of course).

That's before even considering that VF carabiners are specifically certified to be able to withstand much higher forces when side‑loaded against a ledge or the anchor point (as others mentioned).

In reply to Odselly:

Just as a meta thing, shouldn't UKC have a pinned post or FAQ about this?

The subject of improvised VK kit comes up every single year, usually in May/June.  We see the same requests for advice, the same idiotic suggestion to use static slings, the same naïve posts about supposed resetability of friction devices and the same people being forced to waste their time explaining why this is incredibly ill advised.

The topic is almost as predictable and boring as bolting and competition climbing arguments, but unlike either of them it has real potential to get people killed.

In reply to Frank R.:

Some years ago several friends and I made our own kits with Kong KISA plates and proper ferrata krabs. Not nearly as tidy as the commercial ones, but seem to work fine. Caveat: none of us have had a "proper" fall on them.

My wife, by contrast, has had a ferrata fall onto a normal sling and climbing screwgate while descending from a climb in the Dolomites. One of the biggest scares I've ever had in the mountains - I can still see that krab hitting the stemple. It didn't break, and only a sprained ankle resulted, but I would NEVER recommend setting out to do a ferrata without the right kit.

In reply to Odselly:

KiSA plates ARE still available. The issue with friction devices is that as the rope of the lanyard wears, they fluff up and the rope slides through them unpredictably. It was found that well worn sets don't operate at all. So, in theory, if you really are a tight arse, you could buy one, plus some NEW rope and some K rated biners and go for your life. That would be the only way I would envisage making your own ever being worth the effort.

In reply to Odselly:

If you're not going to have a shock absorber you might as well be soloing for all the good it'll do to you (indeed you'd be better off soloing because your brain would understand the risk you were putting yourself in, rather than risk compensation causing you to act more dangerously).

Just buy (or hire) a commercial set.  They cost next to nothing put up against the cost of getting from the UK to somewhere where you can do a VF.

In reply to beardy mike:

I've got a Petzyl Zyper, which has never been fallen on. I've always been a bit concerned since a fireman friend said they'd conducted drop tests and the rope hadn't budged an inch - which, looking at how the rope is twisted through the device, is completely plausible...

(Signed, Concerned of Kendal)

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Well I'd be very surprised if they didn't work from new. Petzl don't usually make up test results and not do the CE cert bodies. 

In reply to Odselly:

Look this is very simple. This reference (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6981439/)  presents data on via ferrata deaths in Austria from 2008 to 2018, showing that 47 deaths occurred as a result of a fall. Let’s be pessimistic and assume that all of those people were using well maintained and appropriate kit.

Now there is also data for other callouts. Let’s assume that all falls resulting in injury would have resulted in death if they were using slings and crabs. And that 50% of falls that resulted in no injury would have result in death if they were using slings and crabs. And that 10% of ‘unknown’s would have resulted in death… i.e. 220 + 39x0.5 + 77x0.1 = 263.

There are roughly 400 via ferrata in Austria (https://www.thepackmama.co/austriablogs/epic-via-ferratas-you-have-to-do-in...) let’s assume that each one receive, on average, 2 ascents a day for 4 months of the year. So from 2008-2018, there was roughly 400 routes x 2 ascents x 4 months x 30 days x 10 years = 960,000 ascents. Your ‘normal’ risk of dying in a via ferrata fall is therefore 47/960,000 per route and the risk of dying if you used inappropriate lanyards is 263/960,000 per year. The question is, is it worth spending £85 to reduce your chance of death by this much? Don’t worry, the government has go you sorted so you don’t even have to think about it.

In 2001, the value for preventing a fatality was set by the HSE at £1,000,000 ( page 36 of: https://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/assets/docs/r2p2.pdf) roughly £1.8m today with inflation.
You can roughly work out how much money it is worth spending as follows: (263-47)/960,000 x £1,800,000 = £376.88.

so don't worry, by buying a good VF kit you'll still be a daredevil living on the edge content with the knowledge that you have spent significantly less than the government approved monetary value for safety.

(I'm expecting a ton of downvotes for this..... I don't even care. Come at me, bros)
 

In reply to wjcdean:

The governments million quid value presumably comes from estimates of peoples average lifetime contribution to the economy.  I suspect most people place the value of their own life somewhat higher.

I've just retired a load of "probably OK" climbing kit after a big fall, so I've been face to face with that calculation recently.  Not a VF fall fortunately but it hurt.

If I'm going to downvote you for anything it's calling me bro.

In reply to wjcdean:

From the report:

“A secured fall into a via ferrata set was documented in 189 (11.2%) cases, resulting in 106 injured, 50 uninjured and five dead mountaineers. Unsecured falls when not using a via ferrata set were recorded in 69 (4.1%) cases, resulting in 21 injured, 19 uninjured and 26 dead mountaineers“  

So fall fatality rate is 4.8% with proper kit and  38% without.

Didn’t understand the rest of your post.

In reply to Odselly:

Maybe a better 'solution' is to take a rope and move together putting in quick-draws at various points along the way if you are fairly confident of not falling but want some emergency back-up so you or your partner doesn't die.  Also, you may have the option to add in more protection points (clip quick draws to rungs on the ladder sections for example) to reduce the impact of a lengthy fall on the more difficult sections plus the friction of the extended rope between the leader and second/third  etc.

In reply to beardy mike:

Just out of interest, are there specific VF kits for kids?

I've seen pics online (some on manufacturers websites) of kids using VF kits, some of which are visibly backed up on a rope, some of which clearly aren't and some where it's not obvious.

A few sets come up in a search, but none seem to be be available or have an adult >40kg spec.

In reply to Odselly:

Kids should be short roped on VF.

In reply to Phyncr:

Or belayed, right? I did a couple this summer and belayed all the sections where a fall was possible. I considered short roping but considered the bloody mess we would get into if either of us fell off.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

The current regs mean that the minimum weight the sets become usable from 40kg. So that includes lots of kids. The other aspect is hand size. The larger, tapered carabiners with a big basket but a narrow dimension at the lanyard end suit small hands better usually. There's lots about. The one I helped design was the Skylotec Resistor carabiner which features in their Skyrider sets. Obviously there are others out there but that is a pretty decent one.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I have seen Germans using a VF kit for kids where one carabiner was more like a Petzl Micro‑Traxion, just made to incrementally grab steel wires on a fall, unlike a normal VF carabiner that stops at the next anchor below. Edelrid, maybe? No idea if safe for kids or not.

The point was that the "carabiner" itself did bite first on any fall, preventing any potentially FF5 falls to the next anchor, as the device caught onto the cable like a prussik, while still deploying the tear‑away brake to stop you gently.

Still, having kids on a rope, especially one on any traverse, some proper slings to prevent any swings or a half‑rope might be the better idea. Don't really need a single rope for seconds, and a half‑rope should be quite enough.

In reply to Frank R.:

<cough> Skylotec Skyriser

In reply to beardy mike:

Thanks. Skylotec it indeed is, but Skyriser it isn't

SKYLOTEC RIDER 3.0-R

https://www.skylotec.com/eu_en/rider-3-0/

"Free-running [self‑locking] steel cable clamp"

Haven't seen it in shops for a while, though. Maybe it was discontinued, perhaps not selling too well? It was almost 3x the cost of most normal sets.

One potential issue I might have with it is that while it could work great on well‑maintained German or Austrian modern VF routes, I don't see it working that well on older VF routes with frayed or thicker cables and such, like some old routes in Brenta.

And I don't think it would work much at all (the clamp brake part, not the 2nd normal carabiner) on some high routes like around Hoher Dachstein in early season, where one can have the bad luck of having some pretty thick rime all over the rock and cables both (I almost wished I had brought technical tools once, instead of the single walking axe just for the glacier approach).

In reply to Fellover:

They are classed as a Type K connector and you are right, there is an additional "Edge Test" required, as specified in UIAA 121 and EN 12275 and shown in a simple diagram in the UIAA 121 simplified pictorial, page 3 of the pdf in this link, https://www.theuiaa.org/documents/safety-standards/Pictorial_UIAA121%20Conn.... 

In reply to Jonathan Lagoe:

From a quick skim of that report, I'm taking "unsecured" fall to mean without any kit (proper or not); they just fell off.  I don't think they are differentiating between 'proper kit' and 'DIY kit' in those stats?

The uninjured rate is the same at around 25%: you get away with it 1 in 4 times;  but clearly things get a lot worse when 'unsecured' if you aren't in the 'uninjured' group ... more of a binary outcome.

Have a look at Section 3.3; makes for grim reading.

Sixty-two (3.7%) accidents resulted in the death. ... the incorrect use or non-use of safety equipment was causative in 41 (87.2%) fatalities.

It also says: "Do-it-yourself safety equipment (e.g., slings, ropes) led to lethal falls in five cases and torn harness anchor slings in four cases."

In reply to galpinos:

Thanks

In reply to Frank R.:

They thoughtfully included a carabiner hole so you can bypass the cable clamp so you can just use a normal carabiner in those instances where the clamp isn't the right tool for the job. They also do a lanyard with only the biners, but that's not really the point here. Skylotec have always been a bit of an oddity in the climbing business. They are primarily industrial access gear. I did some really nice quickdraws for them too but they have since bought Aludesigns and CT so have dropped them again 😞

In reply to beardy mike:

Nice. I never used their gear, just saw it once on some German klettersteig on a kid and was intrigued enough to look it up. Then I saw the price

Certainly looked nice enough for the sportier VF routes with good cables, though.

Any idea if they are still making it? It looked innovative enough that I'd hope so (it won a few ISPO and similar awards back then), but then again, an ISPO award sometimes seems like a sure‑way to get a product discontinued in a year in this increasingly corporate world – I still use and love a really lightweight and really nice Lowe winter climbing pack (which won gold at ISPO), only to be discontinued by Lowe a year or two later...

Corporations and their bloody buy‑outs

In reply to LastBoyScout:

Not exactly what you were asking about, but there was a belay all‑in‑one kit for VFs from Edelrid for kids or such – a 25m 8mm rope with two sewn loops at each end, a self‑locking brake plate optimised for the rope girth, two locking carabiners and a rope bag to dangle it all from your harness. Though priced at over a hundred quid

I'd guess the similar – even skinnier (and even pricier!) – 6mm all‑in‑one rope kits from Petzl for crevasse rescue or short abseils for ski‑touring could work just as well in that situation.

Myself, I just brought whatever random half/twin short rope length I had, plus a HMS et al. when I thought my novice VF partner might potentially need some belaying from above (they didn't).

In reply to Frank R.:

I'm pretty sure they do. But it's always been hard kit to come by. Think you can order direct from the website though?

In reply to Frank R.:

"Not exactly what you were asking about, but there was a belay all‑in‑one kit for VFs from Edelrid for kids or such – a 25m 8mm rope with two sewn loops at each end, a self‑locking brake plate optimised for the rope girth, two locking carabiners and a rope bag to dangle it all from your harness. Though priced at over a hundred quid "

I have this! Was very handy when my nephew (16 so also had proper VF kit of course) lost his nerve about 200m into one - easy to put him on a short rope belay and get him down (once his nerve went it fully went!). Didn't pay 100 quid, but a very effective solution.

In reply to Alex Riley:

Fall factor 5?? how did you work that one out? That would mean falling 5 meters on a 1 meter sling.

In reply to LucasFries:

I’ve not done any VF, but I’m imagining a 4 meter fall with the krab sliding down a cable before it’s stopped on something, and then a further 1m onto the sling. 

Edit: Alex Riley’s link has a handy diagram showing the sort of falls they are talking about. 

In reply to LucasFries:

Anchor points on VFs are what stops you – you are in free-fall all the time til you hit the anchor point of the VF cable, which can be easily 5 metres down. Hence the much higher impact forces possible.

In reply to LucasFries:

Exactly!

In reply to Odselly:

VF, you *must* have some sort of energy absorber

A lot of VF will have some sort of steep or vertical section with a heavy cable (steel wire rope) that is fixed every 2m or 3m or something and you clip it

If you fall on that section the carabiner on your lanyard will go sliding down the steel cable as you fall. At some point it will crash into a cable support (or some sort obstruction/thing on the cable to limit falls). Worst case you may have fallen a couple of metres or more with your carabiner sliding down the cable.

Your fall will be the "slide" distance, let's say 2 metres, + your lanyard length. And even worse the krab might whack into metal and load kind of sideways.

Even this sort of fall on a static sling lanyard and standard HMS krab, even using some dynamic rope for lanyard, can break the krab or lanyard. So you continue your fall to the bottom of whatever you are up.

A homemade setup can be done, with a Yates screamer or Petzl absorbica but by the time you've bought that, you could've just bought a commercial VF kit!

Edit: Fall factor is the length of fall divided by the length of thing absorbing the energy. Due to the sliding before impact having a fall distance a LOT longer than length of thing absorbing it, so fall factors that are way higher than 2, are not at all unlikely in some sections

In reply to LucasFries:

Yup, pretty much that. Have a read of the link I posted.