In reply to The Lemming: I really hope not. Wilton 1 seems a bit Inaccessible by road for houses, and I wouldn’t fancy a house in wilton 3 as its too enclosed and dank. Wilton two on the other hand is next to the road has flat ground so you never know. It does say though that
“The site is considered suitable for a variety of leisure uses, subject to obtaining the necessary planning consents. Bolton Council”
Not sure what “leisure uses” they are thinking off but climbing had best be one of them.
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
The guide price does seem quite low. I bet there will be lots of speculators hoping to either sit on it till the price goes up or to try and wrangle planning permission, so the price goes up. Either way, I imagine that they wouldn't want the liability of us climbing there.
The low price rules out permission for housing I think. If I was guessing, I'd say they're thinking of selling it to someone who will make money out of using it for climbing or shooting or MTBing. So it might turn into Bolton's answer to Ratho, or something like that?
In reply to CJD:
>it would be good if we could go halves with the gun/archery club
They only have a 6 month lease.
It may be worth talking to NW water, who own a lot of the lancs crags, so that we get first ask on any sales of quarries.
I am guessing that these ones are of no use to NW water, as they are open on at least one side, so not water proof. However, troy, anglezarke etc are enclosed so could be flooded if needed to provide more water storage.
rginns21 Sep 2007
In reply to CJD: yeah it would although to be fair, you can shoot anywhere within reason - would they be prepared to stump the cash?
I've emailed Les Ainsworth maybe he should look into all this.
> (In reply to rginns)
> it would be good if we could go halves with the gun/archery club so that all the present users could have guaranteed future access. I know it mentions the gun club anyway.
This would be a mixed blessing. The problem isn't with the gun club, but the people who come down out of hours and shoot glass bottles and foam cans. Wilton 2 especially becomes quite a mess sometimes.
The shooting club have an existing agreement and contract (£8 pa) for access, so I am sure they would have been notified about this some time ago, and may be geared up to buy it
I doubt climbers have any explicit ot implicit right of access
Anonymous21 Sep 2007
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
My immediate worry would be leisure = paintball/ corporate adventure (quads/karts etc) all of which would want exclusive access.
Or lets say speculator x buys the site with no firm intentions - the land is worth more without climbers / liability issues clouding the situation, so first priority would be perimeter fencing and no cimbing notices.
Is Wilton 1 access land?
Toad (not logged on, and who learned to climb in the Wiltons)
> (In reply to martin k) this is not good news if it would jeopardise climbing at Wilton, would the BMC buy as they did with Craig y Longridge?
> This is a fantastic quarry which must remain available to future generations
All four quarries at Wilton offer fantastic sport, even though they tend to be derided by the unconverted.
When the BMC stepped in to rescue Craig Y Longridge, I felt that this was partly due to the huge popularity of bouldering at the time, and the fact that whilst it had only a ten year or so history, it was seen as a significantly important crag.
Surely the same is true of the Wilton Massif. It needs to be available to the future generations - a bastion of traditional quarry adventure climbing - not for the faint hearted or the bolt clipper, but a true wild quarry location of national importance.
What price can you put on a place like this? Personally I thik those guide prices are fair, and I can't wait to see how the BMC views this opportunity.
> The adventurous side of my personality is telling me that selling my house to buy 15 acres of land & rock is a good idea
> I would also be able to afford a tent to live in...
Al Evans (of this parish) camped out in a tent in Wilton One many moons ago, IIRC. Seem to remember doing it myself once or twice when was younger, and before Lonny took over the 'Dog. Not a very comfy place for your tent, but the cragging is super convenient.
In reply to Lord_ash2000: Not looking good really is it, but was it UU that quarried them in the first place or have they bought them out? Maybe the National Trust or another "good doing" group of people will buy them. Granted if they are lost for climbing it will be a great loss, some superb routes in there. How about the gods of UKC? Get a few more t shirts out there, save up, buy a few quarries and rule the shooters with an iron fist, what they need!
If the BMC buy it I think the shooting people should be looked after fairly and their sporting rights protected too. Together we stand, divided we fall and all that. Plus it's a bad idea to get on the wrong side of a good marksman or woman.
rginns21 Sep 2007
In reply to Alison Stockwell: ....as long as they stop filling the pit under S Groove with rubbish in Wilton 2 of course. They can be quite a menace really
The BMC Access & Conservation team are investigating this development and a number of the local conditions associated with the quarry area (planning constraints, regional Unitary Development Plans, CRoW details etc.).
We have also arranged to meet with UU early next week, and will report any developments on the BMC website next week.
BMC A&C Officer
GeoffM21 Sep 2007
In reply to datoon: I'm surprised Geoff hasn't already bought it!?! I'm convinced he lives in the shooting shed already anyhow!?!
Two of the quarries are home to bats, which, if memory serves are a protected species
The gun club who use Wilton 2 have just built some additional shooting huts and spent a bit of time and effort laying a new concrete shooting area.I suppose they would have to get permission off UU, perhaps they know something we dont
Whoever rents W3 for shooting very rarely turn up but
they do still use it mainly Sundays
I know what you mean with the air gun crowd, the rule is if
anyone goes in and starts to shoot without putting flags
up you are entitled to kick them out, also its an offence
to shoot if there are people nearby, Question is do you have the bottle to stand your ground ??
I have an still got shot at--- with real bullets!!!
For what it's worth I suspect the story is like this:
UU have a number of sites sitting on their balance sheet as assets that they can do nothing useful with and are not in the business of turning them to other commercial purpose. It will cost them significantly in excess of £8/year to process receipt of the payment fromthe shooting guys. They want to be rid of them.
However. They know that the land is very unlikely to get approval for development on any significant scale. So it is priced at a point that might attract two sorts of interest:
- someone taking a high risk speculative punt on getting some sort of development approval
- someone currently getting value of some sort out of the site; i.e. shooters and climbers
I will try to remember to call the auctioneers on Monday to find out a little more (I only made one visit to Wilton quarries, but it seems a shame to lose them). Does someone else have a contact at BMC?
I guess we should also ponder the possible question arising - would you be prepared to pay to go climbing there? A fiver a day?
> I will try to remember to call the auctioneers on Monday to find out a little more (I only made one visit to Wilton quarries, but it seems a shame to lose them). Does someone else have a contact at BMC?
John - Les Ainsworth and the BMC team are looking into this. Because of the short timeframe, it'd probably be best left to those guys to find out what's happening and update everyone.
From brief emails I do know that there are a couple of meetings going on this week so we should all have a clearer picture then.
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000)
> Holy shit!! I thought this was a troll at first.
> £15-25k doesn't seem that much although I suspect the land is generally useless to most buyers??
> If anyone's thinking of buying it for climbers, I'll chip in a few bob!
It's split into 2 plots, so to get all the Wilton's it's going to be £45 to 65k.
In reply to Lord_ash2000: Just an idea - with all the pledges of money if needs must.
Could the plethora (wow look at that intellectual word!!) of Lancashire climbing clubs be contacted and asked if there members would be interested in donating money to buy the crag? This would raise quite a bit of money? I will wait on Les and the other BMC reps to get in contact with us regarding this however. John - you can please pass this on to Les as an idea? Although he's probably already thought about it!!!
I am willing to put money towards keeping these crags...
Geoff - I saw that work being done the other week and thought what was going on - is it more cosy and homely now? But alas you must have got someone else in to do the work for you!?! Hope you have had a good season since the last time I saw you
In reply to datoon: I spoke to Les Ainsworth last night about it. I think there are a number of meetings with UU and possibly the council about it scheduled for this week. He spoke to the council last week and apparently a party have made an enquiry on the site with regard to the current planning consent. Whatever they enquired about is not currently allowed and we don't know what the enquiry was for. If the land was purchased, a formal application could be made and planning permission granted if the council saw fit but this is not guarenteed.
At the end of the day, nothing has been decided yet. There are all sorts of hoops to go through before Wilton is seriously under thread. It hasn't been sold yet and even if it is, there are issues to do with planning permission, CRoW access, someone mentioned bats, and no doubt a strong lobby of opposition from local climbers and bilberry pickers.
I think it would be admirable to try to buy it but in reality you would need 600 people like Mick to stump up £100 or 6000 to stump up £10. I think this is a tall order given the timescales.
In reply to Jon Dittman: You never know there might be some people sitting on a quiet stash of money?? Like yourself Jon!?! :P...
I suppose we will just have to watch this space...
Be a great shame if us Lancashire lot lost these quality venues, all that cleaning this year has been a real success (much thanks to everyone who organised them). I personally believe this has had a direct effect on the amount of usage in the quarries.
> how much do you lot think this land will sell for the guide means nothing...
I have no idea, i am not an estate agent!
I recognise the guide price is pretty meaningless, but if people were willing to put up cash then we would have the crag. A hundred quid to some is a drop in the ocean, to others it is a lot.. so my hundred quid might not go far, but at least i am willing!
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
Sounds a bargain if you can pick it up for the bottom end price. Would there be any other costs payable, i.e. annual rates or anything....
If I could put a tent on it I'd rather buy that than house at the moment.
In reply to Stu Tyrrell:
Was toying with the thought of buying it (going halves with a friend) but not sure what the responsibilities etc of land ownership are. If I can put me tent on it then thats a definite plus.
> If I can put me tent on it then thats a definite plus.
We got told off by the warden for camping in the National Park a couple of weeks ago. Such naughty girls!
But I'm sure no-one will move you on if you are camping on your own land. You can just give yourself permission.
In reply to Alison Stockwell:
Precisely. I'll save a tent pitch for you.
Guy Keating, BMC25 Sep 2007
We have just met with a rep. of UU to discuss the scheduled auction of the Wilton quarries. The discussions were very helpful for both parties and we found UU to be receptive and appreciative of the quality of the crag, and its historical place in Lancs. climbing.
The meeting concluded with an agreement to work in partnership with UU on one or two local issues, and a verbal offer to withdraw the quarries from auction.
Hi Phil, I thought they had been in or something similar
well before it got done. Certainly Hank and myself tried it on numerous occasions, they where the type of bolt you clipped but didnt examine,until you fell off
I think Arron was just being pedantic otherwise there would be a few people out there that could be called aid climbers
In reply to GeoffM:
Well done to those involved with the meetings this afternoon - that is great news.
Geoff, did you get those pictures i sent through the other day, or did it make your system crash? I can reduce file sizes a bit if you want, but you did say you wanted mbs!
Brilliant work by the BMC, thanks to everyone for their efforts. Only just started climbing this year and enjoy Wilton very much and it's on my doorstep.
I'm glad I joined the BMC and if ya haven't yet, please do, this is as good a reason why you should amongst others.
I mailed you separately on this, but don't know if it got through as my e-mail seems a little unreliable.
In essence my point was whether there was the possibility of this going one step furtther and UU giving the quarries to the BMC as a charitable donation.
I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that this has the following benefits for UU:
- removal of any residual liability/public safety issues
- improvement (albeit tiny) on RONA as full book value would be written off
- tax deductible as a charitable donation at full book value
i.e. they achieve the tidying up they sought of their assets, at similar financial outcome.
In reply to Moacs: I've never climbed there and am unlikely to either, however I'm willing to donate £200 to try and ensure Wilton remains available for all (whether Climbers, Shooters or family campers).
I am looking into buying the 3 Quarries... I can totaly understand what you guys are saying and the presavation of the land and surrounding will be kept. We are setting up lesure activities in that area and climbing isnt one of them.if you lot are in a climbing club you all will be most welcome to climb on our land. please send me your thoughts. we will only be using the land on certain days, so the use of a club and responsable planning we can all work together. My idea is to ask your club rep to contact me to discuss further details ( i dont want loads of e-mails, if there are too many i will not read them, i just dont have time to read them. this is my e-mail adress tommo_ email@example.com. I am a serious bidder on this auction and i will be most happy to work with you on this matter.
I was a bit plain... Yes they are removed BUT i have spoken to UU today and they are having a meeting soon ( this is how i found you guys) I dont know the full extent on the implicatons on the legal reasons. maybe you can help??? I would love to buy the quarries. and use them for lesure activities. although climbing isnt one of them. I can see no reason why you guys cant clumb there if i owned it. MAYBE YOU LOT CAN HELP ME