This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
There's been a landslide in the Devil's Limekiln. The debris looks to have blocked access to the two seacaves (the kiln is about 1/4 full of rubble). The landslide came from the North West corner (left hand cliff from the Focal Zawn approach). The wall containing The Exorcist and the Antichrist seems to be unaffected.
Grant
Grant
In reply to grantus:
That's a shame; that through trip was fun.
Still, looking on the bright side, at least I wasn't standing in it at the time.
jcm
That's a shame; that through trip was fun.
Still, looking on the bright side, at least I wasn't standing in it at the time.
jcm
In reply to Toreador: I have been looking for a photograph before this landslide, frankly from memory it doesn't seem much different, anybody got a 'before' shot so we can compare?
In reply to Al Evans: If its done what you say, does that mean the first pitch's of Excorsist and Antichrist are now shorter?
In reply to grantus:
Looks like all that atmospheric exposure has gone from The Exorcist wall. Shame.
The Ent
Looks like all that atmospheric exposure has gone from The Exorcist wall. Shame.
The Ent
In reply to Al Evans:
From that photo I'd say most if not all of The Exorcist's first pitch is buried. The belay is just above a small roof which looks to be just above the rubble. Did it in september so my memory's fairly fresh.
However I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure the sea will shift it all a lot quicker than you might imagine. The Craig Dorys arch that fell in the late eighties was gone without trace in a couple of years. All the rock that filled the limekiln must have been removed this way in the past.
From that photo I'd say most if not all of The Exorcist's first pitch is buried. The belay is just above a small roof which looks to be just above the rubble. Did it in september so my memory's fairly fresh.
However I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure the sea will shift it all a lot quicker than you might imagine. The Craig Dorys arch that fell in the late eighties was gone without trace in a couple of years. All the rock that filled the limekiln must have been removed this way in the past.
In reply to Adam L: In a way thats cool, It will make it feel less sad to just do the top pitch of Excorcist and use the ab rope to belay on. The first pitch always spoiled the route anyhow. There certainly doesnt look like any point in going under the roof below the belay at the moment.
In reply to Al Evans:
I've posted a picture of the Limekiln from last March. Waiting for moderation.
I've posted a picture of the Limekiln from last March. Waiting for moderation.
In reply to grantus: Wow, thats great, I think it makes the point admirably, was it from the same standpoint?
In reply to grantus: Hey, will we meet you on the UCK meet there at the begining of May, we are staying in The Barn?
In reply to Al Evans:
The picture's taken from the same place but the height and focal length are different.
Yep I'll be on Lundy in May. 1st-5th of May is it? There's a wedding on the island that weekend and it's Bank Holiday weekend - no climbing for me
The picture's taken from the same place but the height and focal length are different.
Yep I'll be on Lundy in May. 1st-5th of May is it? There's a wedding on the island that weekend and it's Bank Holiday weekend - no climbing for me
In reply to Adam L:
Unlike you, I don't have a formal background in geology, Adam. But I am very interested in geomorphology, and I have wandered through those tunnels into the bottom of the Devil's Limekiln - albeit several years ago.
To me, that looks like an absolutely enormous rockfall!
Also, remember just how narrow that tunnel is, and the fact that its entrance is protected from the worst of the incoming tide by a small outcropping rock island, and many huge granite boulders, all of which will dissipate the energy of the winter storms.
I hope I am wrong, as this was a truly atmospheric place; but I honestly can't see the seas reinstating that tantalising view - the one where you could stand where Grantus took his March 07 picture, and just see the aid sling at the bottom of Golden Gate blowing in the wind - in our lifetime.
Or even the next millennium, for that matter....
Neil
>
> From that photo I'd say most if not all of The Exorcist's first pitch is buried. The belay is just above a small roof which looks to be just above the rubble. Did it in september so my memory's fairly fresh.
>
> However I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure the sea will shift it all a lot quicker than you might imagine. The Craig Dorys arch that fell in the late eighties was gone without trace in a couple of years. All the rock that filled the limekiln must have been removed this way in the past.
> From that photo I'd say most if not all of The Exorcist's first pitch is buried. The belay is just above a small roof which looks to be just above the rubble. Did it in september so my memory's fairly fresh.
>
> However I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure the sea will shift it all a lot quicker than you might imagine. The Craig Dorys arch that fell in the late eighties was gone without trace in a couple of years. All the rock that filled the limekiln must have been removed this way in the past.
Unlike you, I don't have a formal background in geology, Adam. But I am very interested in geomorphology, and I have wandered through those tunnels into the bottom of the Devil's Limekiln - albeit several years ago.
To me, that looks like an absolutely enormous rockfall!
Also, remember just how narrow that tunnel is, and the fact that its entrance is protected from the worst of the incoming tide by a small outcropping rock island, and many huge granite boulders, all of which will dissipate the energy of the winter storms.
I hope I am wrong, as this was a truly atmospheric place; but I honestly can't see the seas reinstating that tantalising view - the one where you could stand where Grantus took his March 07 picture, and just see the aid sling at the bottom of Golden Gate blowing in the wind - in our lifetime.
Or even the next millennium, for that matter....
Neil
In reply to grantus: Last time I was there we had a 'locals' vs climbers cricket match, that or a footy match would be great
In reply to Neil Foster:
IMO it depends on what's holding that lot in place - a solid block or just a wedge of compressed debris. The shape of the upper kiln above the blockage means that a lot of water will be draining into the pit and passing through the debris pile. The nature of the hole below will lead to changes in air pressure when big storm waves hit the cliff outside. Between the two of them they may make (geologically) short work of the blockage. That said, there's also the question of whether there is more loose rock ready to follow!
IMO it depends on what's holding that lot in place - a solid block or just a wedge of compressed debris. The shape of the upper kiln above the blockage means that a lot of water will be draining into the pit and passing through the debris pile. The nature of the hole below will lead to changes in air pressure when big storm waves hit the cliff outside. Between the two of them they may make (geologically) short work of the blockage. That said, there's also the question of whether there is more loose rock ready to follow!
In reply to grantus:
Come and say hi and have a drink with us! Although I'm sure we'll bump into you easy enough if you work in the pub
> Yep I'll be on Lundy in May. 1st-5th of May is it? There's a wedding on the island that weekend and it's Bank Holiday weekend - no climbing for me
Come and say hi and have a drink with us! Although I'm sure we'll bump into you easy enough if you work in the pub
In reply to Neil Foster:
Who knows! It'll be interesting to see though. The fact remains that all the material that once filled the limekiln has been removed this way in the past, despite the factors you mention, with little trace. That rock is quite shaley, I can imagine it breaking up quite quickly once started.
I had wondered if enough has made it to the bottom to eliminate the aid section on golden gate - could be a blessing?
Who knows! It'll be interesting to see though. The fact remains that all the material that once filled the limekiln has been removed this way in the past, despite the factors you mention, with little trace. That rock is quite shaley, I can imagine it breaking up quite quickly once started.
I had wondered if enough has made it to the bottom to eliminate the aid section on golden gate - could be a blessing?
In reply to grantus:
Yikes - thanks for the picture. Looks even more than I'd imagined from your 'quarter-full'. The first pitch on the Exorcist is/was pretty short, and came from the left where the rock is less piled up. It might still be there, but it will certainly be less atmospheric. That stuff's got to at least settle a bit though, hasn't it? It will get a bit lower quite soon, I'd have thought.
jcm
Yikes - thanks for the picture. Looks even more than I'd imagined from your 'quarter-full'. The first pitch on the Exorcist is/was pretty short, and came from the left where the rock is less piled up. It might still be there, but it will certainly be less atmospheric. That stuff's got to at least settle a bit though, hasn't it? It will get a bit lower quite soon, I'd have thought.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: It also look as though the 'abseil down the route' approach will be mandatory, at least for a while.
In reply to Al Evans:
Has it been done from the bottom then? I thought everyone abseiled in. The usual ab isn't down the route, its just to the side down the dyke/rake, belaying on the giant rabbithole.
Has it been done from the bottom then? I thought everyone abseiled in. The usual ab isn't down the route, its just to the side down the dyke/rake, belaying on the giant rabbithole.
In reply to Adam L: That explains why we found the first pitch such a pain to do then.
In reply to grantus:
That's a huge rockfall. Here are links to other pictures of The Devil's Limekiln on the Web:
http://www.southernsandstone.co.uk/ukcrags/crags/lundy/2/south2.jpg
http://www.reenigne.org/photos/lundy/index.html
The first pitch of Exorcist (and of The Antichrist which shares it) start from the basalt chimney on the left of the wall; reached by abseil from the earth bridge "rabbit hole". These routes never started from the floor of the kiln because of the exceptionally grotty and unstable rock below the wall. Perhaps they could do now?
The slanting crack at the start of the pitch, leading to the overlap and the crescent shaped overhang above the stance can be clearly seen in the "southernsandstone" picture. They can also be seen on Toreadors picture just above the rubble line. It looks if one can now step off the top of the rubble straight onto the 5b crack pitch. If I remember correctly that was about 70 feet/20 metres above the floor! It would take a massive BMC crag clean-up to remove the debris!
Lundy has quite a history of routes falling down: e.g. Ramrod and Timebomb. I can't make out from the photo whether HVS The Kiln on the opposite side from Exorcist has been affected but it has previously had rockfall and must have been shaken again by this fall.
That's a huge rockfall. Here are links to other pictures of The Devil's Limekiln on the Web:
http://www.southernsandstone.co.uk/ukcrags/crags/lundy/2/south2.jpg
http://www.reenigne.org/photos/lundy/index.html
The first pitch of Exorcist (and of The Antichrist which shares it) start from the basalt chimney on the left of the wall; reached by abseil from the earth bridge "rabbit hole". These routes never started from the floor of the kiln because of the exceptionally grotty and unstable rock below the wall. Perhaps they could do now?
The slanting crack at the start of the pitch, leading to the overlap and the crescent shaped overhang above the stance can be clearly seen in the "southernsandstone" picture. They can also be seen on Toreadors picture just above the rubble line. It looks if one can now step off the top of the rubble straight onto the 5b crack pitch. If I remember correctly that was about 70 feet/20 metres above the floor! It would take a massive BMC crag clean-up to remove the debris!
Lundy has quite a history of routes falling down: e.g. Ramrod and Timebomb. I can't make out from the photo whether HVS The Kiln on the opposite side from Exorcist has been affected but it has previously had rockfall and must have been shaken again by this fall.
In reply to Frank Cannings:
The photo in that first (southernsandstone) link is superb, Frank.
Grantus - I see you live on Lundy.
Is there any chance of you posting some more pictures of the rockfall?
Perhaps try to replicate the viewing angle shown in this picture? (please don't get too close to the edge, tho'!).
If you can shoot on a day with flatter light, you should be able to get much more detail within the zawn. Or, alternatively, try to expose your shot on the dark area, even if that means the sunny perimeter is burnt out.
Afterall, it is the inside of this mighty hole which we are all interested in...
Good luck, and thanks in anticipation.
Neil
The photo in that first (southernsandstone) link is superb, Frank.
Grantus - I see you live on Lundy.
Is there any chance of you posting some more pictures of the rockfall?
Perhaps try to replicate the viewing angle shown in this picture? (please don't get too close to the edge, tho'!).
If you can shoot on a day with flatter light, you should be able to get much more detail within the zawn. Or, alternatively, try to expose your shot on the dark area, even if that means the sunny perimeter is burnt out.
Afterall, it is the inside of this mighty hole which we are all interested in...
Good luck, and thanks in anticipation.
Neil
In reply to Frank Cannings: Hi Frank, how are you
We abseiled down the top pitch (no idea why?) and then sort of diagonally across to pitch one, don't know if we started it at the start though, so to speak.
Advantage is you can re-inforce the belay with the ab rope, disadvantaGE IS i SUPPOSE IT TOOK AWAY SOME OF THE SERIOUSNESS. (not typing all that again). I guess you could still do that.
We abseiled down the top pitch (no idea why?) and then sort of diagonally across to pitch one, don't know if we started it at the start though, so to speak.
Advantage is you can re-inforce the belay with the ab rope, disadvantaGE IS i SUPPOSE IT TOOK AWAY SOME OF THE SERIOUSNESS. (not typing all that again). I guess you could still do that.
In reply to Al Evans:
The ab from the earth bridge/ rabbithole goes straight down the dyke to the belay. I couldn't find anything other than the ab rope to belay on - not that I would have trusted anyway. Would have liked to try to start it from the floor though.
The ab from the earth bridge/ rabbithole goes straight down the dyke to the belay. I couldn't find anything other than the ab rope to belay on - not that I would have trusted anyway. Would have liked to try to start it from the floor though.
In reply to Neil Foster:
Very flat light today - it's foggy and raining! Which picture? The Southern Sandstone one?
Grant
Very flat light today - it's foggy and raining! Which picture? The Southern Sandstone one?
Grant
In reply to grantus: Hi Grantus, impeccable timing I have just wrapped up the new guide to Lundy (or thought I had!) As Neil has mentioned it would be an enormous help if you could shed any more light on this, in particular if there has been any affect on the Focal Face routes (possibly even the approach) more pictures would be great
Paul Harrison
Paul Harrison
In reply to Paul Ha: Hi Paul, when do you hope to have ready for? Are you going there again this year?
In reply to Paul Ha:
Hi Paul, I sent an e-mail to your address on the Climber's Club website. Not sure if you got it. Basically the same message as the initial post.
Focal Face is ok I think. It's still possible to walk all the way around the 'kiln so all the approaches should be alright. Hidden Zawn can only be approached from above now, no access from Focal Zawn. (For now, the sea should open up the caves in time for the 2015 edition of the Guide!)
There's some climber visiting this week so I can get better photos for you. Just tell me which areas.
Grant
Hi Paul, I sent an e-mail to your address on the Climber's Club website. Not sure if you got it. Basically the same message as the initial post.
Focal Face is ok I think. It's still possible to walk all the way around the 'kiln so all the approaches should be alright. Hidden Zawn can only be approached from above now, no access from Focal Zawn. (For now, the sea should open up the caves in time for the 2015 edition of the Guide!)
There's some climber visiting this week so I can get better photos for you. Just tell me which areas.
Grant
In reply to grantus: Thanks Grantus, I have about 10 days so any pictures of Focal Face (the start to Great divide/Golden Gate in particular would be great. Also is it possible to check out for sure if the first pitch of Exorcist has been affected, also Flashing into the Dark, I think The Kiln is no more. Some photos from the other side may help. Thanks for your help I will make sure there is a guidebook in it for you.
Paul
Paul
In reply to Paul Ha: Paul, having done Exorcist three times and the Antichrist once (top rope) I think you'll find the first pitch can now be made redundant as the overlap appears just above the new scree cone. As Frank commented and you are aware it was gained from the basalt chimney but I would suggest with some confidence that you can now describe the first pitch, or the whole climb as one which you could certainly do, from the scree cone.
In reply to Neil Foster:
Is this any good?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82939
In Reply to Paul Ha:
I've took some photos from the west side looking east today. Tyring to post them but having problems with the uploader.
1)Looks like the bottom pitch of "Flashing in the Dark" is affected.
2)The cave to Hidden Zawn is well and truly blocked but there might be hope for the Focal Zawn cave. The rubble cone shows signs of weathering on this side. I'm going back at 3pm today (high tide) to see if can see the sea.
3) No luck with Focal Face yet.
>
> Grantus - I see you live on Lundy.
>
> Is there any chance of you posting some more pictures of the rockfall?
> Perhaps try to replicate the viewing angle shown in this picture? (please don't get too close to the edge, tho'!).
>
> Grantus - I see you live on Lundy.
>
> Is there any chance of you posting some more pictures of the rockfall?
> Perhaps try to replicate the viewing angle shown in this picture? (please don't get too close to the edge, tho'!).
>
Is this any good?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82939
In Reply to Paul Ha:
I've took some photos from the west side looking east today. Tyring to post them but having problems with the uploader.
1)Looks like the bottom pitch of "Flashing in the Dark" is affected.
2)The cave to Hidden Zawn is well and truly blocked but there might be hope for the Focal Zawn cave. The rubble cone shows signs of weathering on this side. I'm going back at 3pm today (high tide) to see if can see the sea.
3) No luck with Focal Face yet.
In reply to grantus: Bloody 'ell, it looks worse than I thought it was, I think Gary is correct.
Hey can you imagine how somebody on the route would have felt as it rose towards them? Pleeeeeeeeeeezzzeeee let it stop, wheeew!
Hey can you imagine how somebody on the route would have felt as it rose towards them? Pleeeeeeeeeeezzzeeee let it stop, wheeew!
In reply to grantus:
I've added some more photos on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=28137&l=ef79f&id=620311430
The first pitch of the Exorcist seems to be affected
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=725961&l=6d0ed&id=620311430
I've added some more photos on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=28137&l=ef79f&id=620311430
The first pitch of the Exorcist seems to be affected
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=725961&l=6d0ed&id=620311430
In reply to grantus:
Affected but not obliterated, surely? You can still see the crack and the little roof it pulls over, and the belay about 30/40 feet above the scree, can't you? Like Frank C said, in fact. No?
jcm
Affected but not obliterated, surely? You can still see the crack and the little roof it pulls over, and the belay about 30/40 feet above the scree, can't you? Like Frank C said, in fact. No?
jcm
In reply to grantus:
Blimy, yes - that is way better! I really appreciate you taking the trouble to wander back over there, and to upload your photos so promptly. I'm sure Paul will be very grateful too.
As for the rockfall, seeing this image only reinforces the opinions I expressed earlier in this thread.
Thanks again, Grant.
Neil
ps. Did last year's virus finally disappear with the winter frosts?
> (In reply to Neil Foster)
> [...]
>
> Is this any good?
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82939
>
>
> [...]
>
> Is this any good?
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82939
>
>
Blimy, yes - that is way better! I really appreciate you taking the trouble to wander back over there, and to upload your photos so promptly. I'm sure Paul will be very grateful too.
As for the rockfall, seeing this image only reinforces the opinions I expressed earlier in this thread.
Thanks again, Grant.
Neil
ps. Did last year's virus finally disappear with the winter frosts?
In reply to Paul Ha:
Here's some more photos:
"Flashing in the Dark"
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82942
"The Kiln" possibly?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82947
Here's some more photos:
"Flashing in the Dark"
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82942
"The Kiln" possibly?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82947
In reply to Neil Foster:
It looks like the sea is starting to work its magic on the Debris pile.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=725932&id=620311430
I didn't see any sea today, but the high tide was only 6m. The wind was NE so it was a mill pond on SW Point. I expect that last weeks storms put a little dent in the debris pile.
ps. The virus has gone, I hope no-one brings it back again. Wash your hands!
It looks like the sea is starting to work its magic on the Debris pile.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=725932&id=620311430
I didn't see any sea today, but the high tide was only 6m. The wind was NE so it was a mill pond on SW Point. I expect that last weeks storms put a little dent in the debris pile.
ps. The virus has gone, I hope no-one brings it back again. Wash your hands!
In reply to grantus:
A very good set of pictures Grant...
They clearly show the rock fall going half way up the first pitch crack of Exorcist. As Al Evans has pointed out I expect this is now a 150 feet single pitch route starting from the rubble.
Is the tunnel down to Great Divide still open? It appears from the pics that the rockfall didn't go that way?
Could anyone estimate the volume and weight of this rockfall?
A very good set of pictures Grant...
They clearly show the rock fall going half way up the first pitch crack of Exorcist. As Al Evans has pointed out I expect this is now a 150 feet single pitch route starting from the rubble.
Is the tunnel down to Great Divide still open? It appears from the pics that the rockfall didn't go that way?
Could anyone estimate the volume and weight of this rockfall?
In reply to grantus:
You were answering my question about the west tunnel as I was asking it!
It does look as if its still open - if something of a caving trip?
You were answering my question about the west tunnel as I was asking it!
It does look as if its still open - if something of a caving trip?
In reply to grantus:
Thanks very much Grantus, excellent photos, drop us you address (for a guide)or will you be on the island this summer?
Paul
Thanks very much Grantus, excellent photos, drop us you address (for a guide)or will you be on the island this summer?
Paul
In reply to Paul Ha:
Do you need any other photos? Grant, Lundy has worked - posted from Exeter, but I should be on the island for the next few years.
Do you need any other photos? Grant, Lundy has worked - posted from Exeter, but I should be on the island for the next few years.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...