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OK so I have been thinking about this for a while and decided to get a solid answer. My question is if you are climbing and or training regularly what is the optimum amount to eat?
I know some pro climbers eat lots and others eat virtually nothing and I have heard both sides of the argument from different people I.e. eating nothing makes you super light but eating more makes you stronger but less light.
So which is actually better for performance eating a lot or eating only a little?
Just for reference I eat very little.
I know some pro climbers eat lots and others eat virtually nothing and I have heard both sides of the argument from different people I.e. eating nothing makes you super light but eating more makes you stronger but less light.
So which is actually better for performance eating a lot or eating only a little?
Just for reference I eat very little.
In reply to Quarryboy:
Somewhere in the middle I guess, try reading 9 out of 10 climbers. Just finished reading it. I wasn't too interested in the nutritional side of it but from what I can remember the key is to ensure you're getting plenty of carbohydrates after climbing to replenish glycogen levels. I vaguely recall dave macleod saying this helped recovery times significantly; allowing you to train/climb on days you would otherwise struggle with. I'm trying it at the moment more out of interest than anything else!
Somewhere in the middle I guess, try reading 9 out of 10 climbers. Just finished reading it. I wasn't too interested in the nutritional side of it but from what I can remember the key is to ensure you're getting plenty of carbohydrates after climbing to replenish glycogen levels. I vaguely recall dave macleod saying this helped recovery times significantly; allowing you to train/climb on days you would otherwise struggle with. I'm trying it at the moment more out of interest than anything else!
In reply to Quarryboy: Really depends what your planning on eating! eg lots of fats only, probs very bad! conversely very little, say, protein is also very bad (leads to protein deficiency, muscle loss, a hole host of not good times!) The amount of exercise you do will also come into it. If you dont exercise much then your obviously not going to need as much food before you start putting on weight, conversely if your doing lots of high intensity exercise you'll need lots of protein for muscle repair and growth.
I doubt that a top climber would eat virtually nothing, that's not good for you at all, especially if your doing the level of exercise they are.
I doubt that a top climber would eat virtually nothing, that's not good for you at all, especially if your doing the level of exercise they are.
In reply to Quarryboy: Working out the exact amount you should be eating is a bit complicated. A good guideline is eat until your satisfied, but not full. It's easy to stuff yourself when you don't actually need to. You can always eat a bit, wait half an hour and then eat a bit more if your still hungry. If you eat too much, you can't change your mind afterwards. Just listen to your stomach!
In reply to Quarryboy: just eat slowly and stop when you feel full, your body will know what is right for it. Big emphasis on the eating slowly part though!!!
In reply to Quarryboy:
it depends what you eat and when.
during deep training periods i find training on empty gets best results, then i consume a lot of protein and nutrient rich natural food the rest of the day.
during 'application' periods (when the reason for the training is the primary activity and training drops way back to maintenance level) i eat more consistently with a focus on 'loading' for the application and 'recovery' after it to keep weight up etc.
it depends what you eat and when.
during deep training periods i find training on empty gets best results, then i consume a lot of protein and nutrient rich natural food the rest of the day.
during 'application' periods (when the reason for the training is the primary activity and training drops way back to maintenance level) i eat more consistently with a focus on 'loading' for the application and 'recovery' after it to keep weight up etc.
In reply to Quarryboy:
Basically nutrition made easy looks like this:
1. Eat a large portion of fruit or veg at every meal along with some carbs (rice, pasta, bread, tatties, cereal) and some protein (meat, fish, soya) or milk product.
2. Only eat fruit and veg as snacks.
3. Drink 2 to 3 liters of water every day.
Remember it is not quanity so much as quality that matters. I was shocked to find out my favorite bag of chrisps contained a whole days worth of calaries! If you feel you are too heavy then tweek your nutrition to eat more veg and less carbs.
hope this helps,
Neil Newton Taylor
Basically nutrition made easy looks like this:
1. Eat a large portion of fruit or veg at every meal along with some carbs (rice, pasta, bread, tatties, cereal) and some protein (meat, fish, soya) or milk product.
2. Only eat fruit and veg as snacks.
3. Drink 2 to 3 liters of water every day.
Remember it is not quanity so much as quality that matters. I was shocked to find out my favorite bag of chrisps contained a whole days worth of calaries! If you feel you are too heavy then tweek your nutrition to eat more veg and less carbs.
hope this helps,
Neil Newton Taylor
In reply to Quarryboy:
As much as you like before training.
As much as you can afterwards.
At least that's what I do.
As much as you like before training.
As much as you can afterwards.
At least that's what I do.
In reply to snaresman:
big ones
big ones
In reply to neilnt: This is sound advice.
Outside of mealtimes, what you snack on can tilt the odds: quit the 'empty calorie collection' - crisps, chocolate etc and go for dried fruit and maybe nuts (but fatty). Example: Chocolate has 54% available sugar, the rest is fat. Dates have 78% available sugar, the rest is fibre and minerals.
Outside of mealtimes, what you snack on can tilt the odds: quit the 'empty calorie collection' - crisps, chocolate etc and go for dried fruit and maybe nuts (but fatty). Example: Chocolate has 54% available sugar, the rest is fat. Dates have 78% available sugar, the rest is fibre and minerals.
In reply to snaresman: A tube of pringles contains 2000 calories.
In reply to neilnt:
3 litres of water a day?
I haven't checked how much I drink but I'd be surprised if I drank more than 1.5 litres a day.
3 litres of water a day?
I haven't checked how much I drink but I'd be surprised if I drank more than 1.5 litres a day.
In reply to Quarryboy:
Eat when you are hungry esentiailly just don't gorge until you can't move
If you are hungry eat your body is telling you something
If you are peckish you should not however eat a
Sara Lee double chocolate gâteau to ourself
Just use common sense
Healthy snacks nuts etc not crisps
Eat when you are hungry esentiailly just don't gorge until you can't move
If you are hungry eat your body is telling you something
If you are peckish you should not however eat a
Sara Lee double chocolate gâteau to ourself
Just use common sense
Healthy snacks nuts etc not crisps
In reply to Sonya Mc:
According to their website pringles contain just over 900 calories per can, depending on flavour [/ends pedantry]. Tis still a lot! No wonder xmas has left me blubbery.
According to their website pringles contain just over 900 calories per can, depending on flavour [/ends pedantry]. Tis still a lot! No wonder xmas has left me blubbery.
In reply to snaresman: Oh, oooops, my mistake! I was so sure that I read 2000 on a tub a couple of years ago. Mmmmmmmmmm, I'll feel less bad about indulging in a tube now I know it's only half of what I thought :oD
In reply to muppetfilter:
made me smile - 9/10
made me smile - 9/10
In reply to snaresman:
We were out in Spain over new year and big 300g bags of crisps (we were sharing them, but they disappeared quite quickly) had about 1800 calories in.
Not beyond the realms of possibility someone could get through a bag single handed.
We were out in Spain over new year and big 300g bags of crisps (we were sharing them, but they disappeared quite quickly) had about 1800 calories in.
Not beyond the realms of possibility someone could get through a bag single handed.
In reply to Quarryboy:
Hey, if you are doing lots of training you would be looking at 10g/kg of body weight/day for carbohydrates and 1.5g/kg/day of bodyweight for protein.
Hey, if you are doing lots of training you would be looking at 10g/kg of body weight/day for carbohydrates and 1.5g/kg/day of bodyweight for protein.
In reply to Quarryboy:
oh yeah, try and eat before, during and after training Protein shakes are helpful because you get the needed protein in a more convenient way. Also, try and eat as quickly after exercise as possible to allow yourself to get the maximum possible gains from eating e.g. the longer you live it, the lesser of an effect it will have.
oh yeah, try and eat before, during and after training Protein shakes are helpful because you get the needed protein in a more convenient way. Also, try and eat as quickly after exercise as possible to allow yourself to get the maximum possible gains from eating e.g. the longer you live it, the lesser of an effect it will have.
In reply to Quarryboy:
Ignore any advice you get about protein shakes and read this:
http://www.planetfear.com/articles/Weight_Management_for_Climbers_168.html
Ignore any advice you get about protein shakes and read this:
http://www.planetfear.com/articles/Weight_Management_for_Climbers_168.html
In reply to Quarryboy:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1934030511/ref=asc_df_19340305116115957?smid=A3P...
That's a long link sorry.
Great book recommended by Dave Mac. Aimed at endurance athletes but lots of great info about nutrient timing, how to calculate how much you should lose (if you need to ) and lots of good stuff about what you should eat before during and after exercise.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1934030511/ref=asc_df_19340305116115957?smid=A3P...
That's a long link sorry.
Great book recommended by Dave Mac. Aimed at endurance athletes but lots of great info about nutrient timing, how to calculate how much you should lose (if you need to ) and lots of good stuff about what you should eat before during and after exercise.
In reply to mattmurphy:
Not saying you're wrong but that's contrary to what a lot of athletes think. Could you give us a bit more info ?
> (In reply to Quarryboy)
>
> Ignore any advice you get about protein shakes and read this:
>
> Ignore any advice you get about protein shakes and read this:
Not saying you're wrong but that's contrary to what a lot of athletes think. Could you give us a bit more info ?
In reply to biscuit: Although not scientific I had an interesting chat with an offshore medic, she was an HDU nurse and highly trained in remote medicine. Her observations over the last 5-10 years have been that there are an increasing number of kidney complaints from weight training gym users. Her words not mine were of an "Insult" of protein to the digestive system accompanying training and the bodys attempt to handle it leading to kidney stones amongst the complaints.
Her recomendation was for a balanced diet with emphasis on the quality of proteins and not the sheer quantity from the protein shakes.
Her recomendation was for a balanced diet with emphasis on the quality of proteins and not the sheer quantity from the protein shakes.
In reply to biscuit:
A more relevant article by heather clark on the subject is here http://www.planetfear.com/articles/Nutrition_for_Bouldering_169.html - perhaps the one mattmurphy meant to link.
There are plenty of unprocessed/natural protein alternatives to protein shakes (milk, eggs, nuts, tuna) and the amount of protein required is not as much as generally assumed even for post strength/power sessions. As for the qualitative aspects of protein types I'm a believer in the bodies great capacity for synthesis. All IMO, DYOR etc
A more relevant article by heather clark on the subject is here http://www.planetfear.com/articles/Nutrition_for_Bouldering_169.html - perhaps the one mattmurphy meant to link.
There are plenty of unprocessed/natural protein alternatives to protein shakes (milk, eggs, nuts, tuna) and the amount of protein required is not as much as generally assumed even for post strength/power sessions. As for the qualitative aspects of protein types I'm a believer in the bodies great capacity for synthesis. All IMO, DYOR etc
In reply to Quarryboy:
The average intake of protein for the average person does not need to be more than 0.8g/kg of body weight. However, when you are training, this would raise to around 1.5g/kg of body weight in the recovery period. However, if you eat more than this, e.g. 2g/kg of body weight, studies show there is no improvement in strength gains.
You can get all this protein through a balanced diet, studies show that if you increase your dietary intake, there is a linear increase in the amount of protein that you take in. However, this is as important as when you eat that protein. Food intake needs to be manipulated with the timing of the exercise and it is for this reason people take protein shakes. And this is because there is a window of opportunity after the exercise period where there a period to ensure maximum effect and the longer you live the smaller the effect. Therefore, people consume protein shakes straight after exercise to hit his window and its more convenient than taking a tuna or chicken sandwich to the climbing wall/outside or waiting until they get home.
So not only is what you eat is important but its when you eat iy and this is why athletes opt for protein shakes.
The average intake of protein for the average person does not need to be more than 0.8g/kg of body weight. However, when you are training, this would raise to around 1.5g/kg of body weight in the recovery period. However, if you eat more than this, e.g. 2g/kg of body weight, studies show there is no improvement in strength gains.
You can get all this protein through a balanced diet, studies show that if you increase your dietary intake, there is a linear increase in the amount of protein that you take in. However, this is as important as when you eat that protein. Food intake needs to be manipulated with the timing of the exercise and it is for this reason people take protein shakes. And this is because there is a window of opportunity after the exercise period where there a period to ensure maximum effect and the longer you live the smaller the effect. Therefore, people consume protein shakes straight after exercise to hit his window and its more convenient than taking a tuna or chicken sandwich to the climbing wall/outside or waiting until they get home.
So not only is what you eat is important but its when you eat iy and this is why athletes opt for protein shakes.
In reply to Quarryboy:
These guys inspire me in terms of nutrition
youtube.com/watch?v=hODeFnYIHks&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGjJCqN3p_E&feature=related
These guys inspire me in terms of nutrition
youtube.com/watch?v=hODeFnYIHks&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGjJCqN3p_E&feature=related
In reply to candy_girl:
A bottle of skimmed milk is no less convenient than a protein shake. I used to take a boiled egg but cant be bothered with that now.
> (In reply to Quarryboy)>
Therefore, people consume protein shakes straight after exercise to hit his window and its more convenient than taking a tuna or chicken sandwich to the climbing wall/outside or waiting until they get home.>
> So not only is what you eat is important but its when you eat iy and this is why athletes opt for protein shakes.
> So not only is what you eat is important but its when you eat iy and this is why athletes opt for protein shakes.
A bottle of skimmed milk is no less convenient than a protein shake. I used to take a boiled egg but cant be bothered with that now.
In reply to shark:
Well its up to you what you want to take along to the climbing wall, I just stated the theory of why athletes opt for protein shakes. And whether you follow this advice or take milk, tuna/chicken sandwich is entirely up to.
Well its up to you what you want to take along to the climbing wall, I just stated the theory of why athletes opt for protein shakes. And whether you follow this advice or take milk, tuna/chicken sandwich is entirely up to.
In reply to 999thAndy: the water industry is very keen to promote the idea of 2L a day as being optimal. However there's basically no evidence for the claim. (http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d4280 - needs a password to access the whole thing).
However much water you actually need you'll probably get perhaps half of it from food in any case. And unless you're ill, very old or at extreme high altitude your body will basically tell you pretty reliably how much you need to drink.
However much water you actually need you'll probably get perhaps half of it from food in any case. And unless you're ill, very old or at extreme high altitude your body will basically tell you pretty reliably how much you need to drink.
In reply to Quarryboy: For all nutrition needs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3nA2zqeX5Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3nA2zqeX5Q&feature=related
In reply to muppetfilter:
Thought it would be along those lines. For sure many people are totally overdoing it and having far too much.
I don't use them myself - i go for the choc skimmed milkshake approach, yum -but i can see why people do and if you can't be arsed sorting your diet out they do the job.
Racing weight actually recommends them as an aid to losing weight as whey protein supposedly supresses appetite.
Thought it would be along those lines. For sure many people are totally overdoing it and having far too much.
I don't use them myself - i go for the choc skimmed milkshake approach, yum -but i can see why people do and if you can't be arsed sorting your diet out they do the job.
Racing weight actually recommends them as an aid to losing weight as whey protein supposedly supresses appetite.
In reply to Jon Didymus:
These guys inspire me in terms of nutrition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYhDthbBrrU&feature=list_related&pla...
sorry.
These guys inspire me in terms of nutrition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYhDthbBrrU&feature=list_related&pla...
sorry.
In reply to Jay81: Doh!! only just clicked your link. still...
In reply to biscuit:
In my experience shakes of any form help weight loss by increasing the amount of food that goes in, through and straight out of you like an express train! :0
> (In reply to muppetfilter)
>
> Racing weight actually recommends them as an aid to losing weight as whey protein supposedly supresses appetite.
>
> Racing weight actually recommends them as an aid to losing weight as whey protein supposedly supresses appetite.
In my experience shakes of any form help weight loss by increasing the amount of food that goes in, through and straight out of you like an express train! :0
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