UKC

Ben Bransby has made the 2nd ascent of Baron Greenback, without testing the fall. UKClimbing.com interviewed Ben about his ascent...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=68808

In reply to UKC News:
It's always good to know that there is another Mum out there who is willing to get out and belay
Well done Ben.

In reply to J&PW:

" I carried up a 9ft fence post which I wedged diagonally across the starting gully and clipped a sling in the top end – at about the same point as the starting holds. It sounds a bit odd but it protected the start really well and I did place it on lead!!"

Brilliant, imaginative gear placement

In reply to the sheep:

Presumably this could be extended. What's to stop the party carrying up a suitably cut telegraph pole for any route and leaning it against the crag?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

You could climb the log too if you want. Let's face it as long as you aren't damaging the rock and are open and honest about your tactics then it is a free country. Personally I wouldn't use a lump of wood on this route because I couldn't get off the ground carrying it.

Let us know how you protect it.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Seemingly the pole was placed for protection not any point of aid. Nobody has tried to pull a fast one so whats the issue?

In reply to the sheep:

I didn't say there was an issue. I observed, in a light-hearted way, that the way to protect all serious grit routes was now open, as long as you can carry up a sufficiently large and tailored pole.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

So all the jobs once done by sherpas are now to be taken over by tall, well dressed Eastern Europeans?? Its immigration gone mad, where is Farage when you need him?

In reply to the sheep:

Brilliant.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Could someone explain to me how this fits into the myth? of no bolts on 'the best rock and ethics' in the world? Practise, bolts, ladders and clip stick! Why not just replace the tat with parabolts? - climb onsight and stop the double standards. Surely a safe onsight is better than this?
Still congratulations to both and keep alive.

In reply to Oliver Hill:

Oh, get a grip, man. It's quirky, fun and accepts the challenge left by aid climbers of fifty odd years ago. If you don't get it, I'm afraid neither I nor anybody else can explain it to you.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Apologies, hadn't picked up on the light humour. It's so difficult to tell with you!

In reply to UKC News:

I do seem to remember a route being lead I think on Gogarth using a couple of wooden blocks which were placed in a bit horizontal slot with a friend on top. Psychological support comes to mind.

In reply to UKC News:

Nice! I look forward to Ben chopping the bolts and leading the route without them a la Fred Zinnerman at Caley.

In reply to UKC News:

If anyone cares to see the unusual gear there's a photo here: https://twitter.com/dmmclimbing/status/448556575037603840/photo/1

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:
https://twitter.com/dmmclimbing/status/448556575037603840/photo/1

Dear DMM

I would like to complain about a harness that you manufactured, please could you tell me how it is acceptable for the gear loops to snap on the first time I used it? I was only carrying a couple of bits of gear!

Yours

B. Bransby

In reply to Reach>Talent:

You'd feel pretty silly if you left one of those on the ground "to save weight" and then got half way up the route and realized that the only solid gear was a nine-foot fence post...

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

I don't blame him, there was a lot at stake

In reply to Oliver Hill:

I reckon carrying a 9ft fence post up that slope to the crag is E9 in itself

In reply to Sam Beaton:

in that case we better back date the first E9 to a Mr J. Christ

In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC and UKH:

It's a Big-bro. A *really* big bro.

In reply to UKC News:

Pete W has now done the direct start! Hope there's another video to come, you'd be a long way above the pads when you reach the bolts.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Well I don't get it, so would care to at least try to explain? The message seems to be that bolts are never acceptable on grit... except for when they are. Just because they're old aid bolts rather than new sport bolts I don't see how climbing on them is ethically different. If the bolts weren't there, would drilling new ones have been acceptable?

In reply to cb_6:


JCM, can you deal with this? I just can't be a***d.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Excuse me? I wasn't being facetious mate, I really am interested because I simply don't understand and will accept a clear explanation. I don't come from a trad/grit background.

In reply to cb_6:

Whoever said ethics was easy?

Drilling new bolts would not be acceptable.

A similar case can be made about chipped holds. Livesey cleaned Downhill Racer with a brush of 6 inch nails according to some wag at the time. Those holds are still there but everyone uses them. If the slab hadn't been brushed/improved in the way it had then it wouldn't be done today.

In reply to Bob:

No no, I get that drilling new bolts wouldn't be acceptable. That was a sarcastic rhetorical question. What I'm driving at is why it's acceptable to continue climbing on old aid bolts and still call it trad. I would have thought those bolts would be chopped.

In reply to cb_6:

Human nature and one of the seven deadly sins (hint begins with 'g')

In reply to Bob:

Greed? Are you sure it isn't pride or lust? :-P

In reply to cb_6:

In general it seems to be human nature to treat stuff that's "historic" a bit differently. You might as well ask why we don't pull down the viaduct at Monsal Head given that it'd never get planning permission today.

Add to that the fact that noone's quite sure how much force it'd take to pull the bolts in question, and that the climb is consequently still as necky as hell.

In reply to Bob:


If the slab hadn't been brushed/improved in the way it had then it wouldn't be done today.



...errr yes it most certainly would fella!

In reply to Ramblin dave:


That seems easy enough to understand, thank you.

In reply to cb_6:




some things you just need to accept in life... this is one of them...

In reply to Simon:

By "done" do you mean climbed or chipped? I'm meaning chipped.

In reply to Bob:

climbed

In reply to cb_6: Ramblin dave has got the essence of it, one of the fundamental differences between trad and sport is the nature of any uncertainty. With sport the uncertainty is (nearly totally) confined to your physical ability, with trad other areas of uncertainty - quality of gear, mental ability with boldness etc come into it as well.

Old fixed gear that is doubtful has this uncertainty so is generally accepted as valid for new trad routes until somebody does without them - hence using the old aid bolts on Baron Greenback. The acceptability of new fixed gear is location dependent; e.g. on natural gritstone - never.

I wonder what the situation would be if the old bolts on BG were stonkingly solid - unlikely with any such old fixed gear - I suspect that they would still be used but there would be more ethical pressure for somebody to then do a bolt free ascent so that they could be chopped.

In reply to Simon:

Given that on the second ascent when I followed Pete, I thought it just looked like a good brushing with a wire brush, none of this 6 inch nails rubbish, then you are probably right, the route would have been done by now with less eccentric brushing.

In reply to Michael Hood:

Once again, thank you for the clear explanation. I don't see why others felt the need to be rude about it.