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Just a few questions/points about the pegs on the suicide wall belay
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235535
- Many logbook entries backed off the classic route due to poor state of pegs
- I myself was desperate to do the route, but did not due to the stories of parties not wanting to go up or down & being rescued by friends
- Apparently a good cam at foot level? Is this true? & does this make a solid belay???
As I understand, this is not such an adventure route (i.e. Red Wall, Gogarth - where bad pegs are almost part of the experience) and these pegs are stopping many people doing the route, which is a shame for such a classic of the area & 'hard rock' tick
As I don't know the ethical stance of the area too well, my main question:
- Will the pegs be left to rot? Or will the pegs be knocked out for good wire placements or replaced just to rot again?
Thanks
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=235535
- Many logbook entries backed off the classic route due to poor state of pegs
- I myself was desperate to do the route, but did not due to the stories of parties not wanting to go up or down & being rescued by friends
- Apparently a good cam at foot level? Is this true? & does this make a solid belay???
As I understand, this is not such an adventure route (i.e. Red Wall, Gogarth - where bad pegs are almost part of the experience) and these pegs are stopping many people doing the route, which is a shame for such a classic of the area & 'hard rock' tick
As I don't know the ethical stance of the area too well, my main question:
- Will the pegs be left to rot? Or will the pegs be knocked out for good wire placements or replaced just to rot again?
Thanks
In reply to ashtond6:
It's fine. The pegs aren’t great but there’s enough gear to make a reasonable belay.
I don’t know what it is about this route. Every time it’s mentioned you get Al coming on frothing at the mouth about how dreadful it is, and now this nonsense. It’s a pleasant sea-cliff E1 of strong character and great historical interest, no more and no less – granted, a little oversold in KW’s coffee-table work.
If you don’t like the moves just stand on your second’s shoulder; worked for everyone in the sixties. Calling your mates on the mobile to have them lower a rope is either a joke (in which case hats off) or post-modern bedwetting of the first order (in which case the climbers concerned should have a date with that fellow who called mountain rescue to get him off when he was benighted on that Diff at the Roaches).
jcm
It's fine. The pegs aren’t great but there’s enough gear to make a reasonable belay.
I don’t know what it is about this route. Every time it’s mentioned you get Al coming on frothing at the mouth about how dreadful it is, and now this nonsense. It’s a pleasant sea-cliff E1 of strong character and great historical interest, no more and no less – granted, a little oversold in KW’s coffee-table work.
If you don’t like the moves just stand on your second’s shoulder; worked for everyone in the sixties. Calling your mates on the mobile to have them lower a rope is either a joke (in which case hats off) or post-modern bedwetting of the first order (in which case the climbers concerned should have a date with that fellow who called mountain rescue to get him off when he was benighted on that Diff at the Roaches).
jcm
In reply to ashtond6:
Nice pair of glue-in stainless steel bolts with a >30year lifespan is the only longterm solution.
Due to their transient nature, pegs have no place on British seacliffs IMHO
Nice pair of glue-in stainless steel bolts with a >30year lifespan is the only longterm solution.
Due to their transient nature, pegs have no place on British seacliffs IMHO
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Should have left it there!
Good route, I found it hard.
> It's fine. The pegs aren’t great but there’s enough gear to make a reasonable belay.
Should have left it there!
Good route, I found it hard.
In reply to Ally Smith:
You've not done this route, Ally, now have you?
The long-term solution is placing the perfectly adequate natural gear which exists and either removing the pegs or letting nature take its course.
jcm
You've not done this route, Ally, now have you?
The long-term solution is placing the perfectly adequate natural gear which exists and either removing the pegs or letting nature take its course.
jcm
In reply to ashtond6:
Or, for that matter, not taking the belay and carrying on. It's a bit of a shame because the belay gives the route more character and the ropework needs a bit of thought, but if any leader is truly concerned about the belay, that's obviously what he should do. That way you have the row of friends in the horizontal crack to the right protecting you if it really goes tits up. It's pretty daft to bring your second up and *then* decide there's a problem. The supposed 'FF2 fall' only arises because you've just taken out the pitch's-worth of gear just below you.
jcm
> The long-term solution is placing the perfectly adequate natural gear which exists
Or, for that matter, not taking the belay and carrying on. It's a bit of a shame because the belay gives the route more character and the ropework needs a bit of thought, but if any leader is truly concerned about the belay, that's obviously what he should do. That way you have the row of friends in the horizontal crack to the right protecting you if it really goes tits up. It's pretty daft to bring your second up and *then* decide there's a problem. The supposed 'FF2 fall' only arises because you've just taken out the pitch's-worth of gear just below you.
jcm
In reply to ashtond6:
ok sounds good, shame i didn't do it now!
are the cams at foot level? i.e. can you sit down at the belay so make them more effective?
ok sounds good, shame i didn't do it now!
are the cams at foot level? i.e. can you sit down at the belay so make them more effective?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
This is a good point. Why would anyone stop at a unsatisfactory belay? Just pass through and keep that ff down.
This is a good point. Why would anyone stop at a unsatisfactory belay? Just pass through and keep that ff down.
Post edited at 13:39
In reply to ashtond6: Though it is many years since I did this, I remember there being sufficient gear at the belay to back up the pegs. I was more concerned about the choice on the short next pitch, which was a small piece of marginal gear or a small hold.
Fun and memorable route though (note: spoilers ahead). If the potential state of the pegs puts you off doing the route then you're missing out, as a crafty leader can find ways not to rely on them or, as JCM says, simply not bother to belay and move on through - and given the antics some people have getting onto the stance (my second ended up getting on to it backwards; I had one of my better days and used a small lip on the front of the ledge to traverse across the front of it to reach the crack on the other side, and so got onto to it rather elegantly), leading on through so that your second has a rope above them when doing the awkward moves onto the stance may well be a safer course to take.
The last pitch is, by contrast, a piece of rough granite thuggery. I enjoyed that too.
T.
Fun and memorable route though (note: spoilers ahead). If the potential state of the pegs puts you off doing the route then you're missing out, as a crafty leader can find ways not to rely on them or, as JCM says, simply not bother to belay and move on through - and given the antics some people have getting onto the stance (my second ended up getting on to it backwards; I had one of my better days and used a small lip on the front of the ledge to traverse across the front of it to reach the crack on the other side, and so got onto to it rather elegantly), leading on through so that your second has a rope above them when doing the awkward moves onto the stance may well be a safer course to take.
The last pitch is, by contrast, a piece of rough granite thuggery. I enjoyed that too.
T.
In reply to ashtond6:
A couple of year's back the BMC arranged a meeting in Redruth where the issue of pegs and drilled gear was addressed. This meeting was attended by about 60 or so people and the protocol agreed by a substantial majority was that there would be no further fixed or drilled gear placed on the seacliffs of West Cornwall and that the present fixed protection, bolts or pegs, would either be removed or left to rot away and not replaced. If and when the peg goes on SW, anyone wanting to do the route will either have to boulder out the crux or, as jcm points out do the traditional thing and stand on the second's shoulders or back off. The belays are bombproof if slightly awkwardly placed.
I hope that the neighbouring route LBJ is still peg-free.
A couple of year's back the BMC arranged a meeting in Redruth where the issue of pegs and drilled gear was addressed. This meeting was attended by about 60 or so people and the protocol agreed by a substantial majority was that there would be no further fixed or drilled gear placed on the seacliffs of West Cornwall and that the present fixed protection, bolts or pegs, would either be removed or left to rot away and not replaced. If and when the peg goes on SW, anyone wanting to do the route will either have to boulder out the crux or, as jcm points out do the traditional thing and stand on the second's shoulders or back off. The belays are bombproof if slightly awkwardly placed.
I hope that the neighbouring route LBJ is still peg-free.
In reply to Pursued by a bear:
>leading on through so that your second has a rope above them when doing the awkward moves onto the stance may well be a safer course to take.
Of course, that way they can't pull on your leg. Swings and roundabouts.
jcm
>leading on through so that your second has a rope above them when doing the awkward moves onto the stance may well be a safer course to take.
Of course, that way they can't pull on your leg. Swings and roundabouts.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
>(in which case the climbers concerned should have a date with that fellow who called mountain rescue to get him off when he was benighted on that Diff at the Roaches).
And attend a lecture on 'dealing with it' by the guy who got got avalanched down 200m in lochnagar and crawled for four hours to the rescue box to sit out 'one of the winter's worst blizzards', and told MR he didn't expect to see them till morning when they got to the box at 4am.
>(in which case the climbers concerned should have a date with that fellow who called mountain rescue to get him off when he was benighted on that Diff at the Roaches).
And attend a lecture on 'dealing with it' by the guy who got got avalanched down 200m in lochnagar and crawled for four hours to the rescue box to sit out 'one of the winter's worst blizzards', and told MR he didn't expect to see them till morning when they got to the box at 4am.
In reply to Pursued by a bear:
I remember (15 yrs or so ago) making half a move to place a good cam up right. I don't remember being concerned about the belay. My guidebook says the "peg belays (1989) should be backed up with wires".
> Though it is many years since I did this, I remember there being sufficient gear at the belay to back up the pegs. I was more concerned about the choice on the short next pitch, which was a small piece of marginal gear or a small hold.
I remember (15 yrs or so ago) making half a move to place a good cam up right. I don't remember being concerned about the belay. My guidebook says the "peg belays (1989) should be backed up with wires".
In reply to ashtond6:
Which belay? The belay after the easy P1 had a coupe of poor pegs I think and we got a couple of micro cams to back up, overall not great and the start of the 5a pitch felt hard and was protected by an uninspiring micro. However I think my partner belayed a bit too high and there may have been a better belay a bit lower. The next belay, after the 5a traverse pitch, is fine - some cams and nuts, I wasn't concerned. I thought the best bit of the route was the traverse pitch and on the whole it was a good route but not really the big classic it's made out to be. Bow Wall is much better.
Which belay? The belay after the easy P1 had a coupe of poor pegs I think and we got a couple of micro cams to back up, overall not great and the start of the 5a pitch felt hard and was protected by an uninspiring micro. However I think my partner belayed a bit too high and there may have been a better belay a bit lower. The next belay, after the 5a traverse pitch, is fine - some cams and nuts, I wasn't concerned. I thought the best bit of the route was the traverse pitch and on the whole it was a good route but not really the big classic it's made out to be. Bow Wall is much better.
In reply to ashtond6:
Sorry just checked the photo. Seem to recall there was a good nut in there but not like in that photo. Possible also a small cam. Plus good cams at foot level as back up.
Sorry just checked the photo. Seem to recall there was a good nut in there but not like in that photo. Possible also a small cam. Plus good cams at foot level as back up.
In reply to Iain Peters:
Did the Edwards clan sign up to this?
> (In reply to ashtond6)
>
> This meeting was attended by about 60 or so people and the protocol agreed by a substantial majority was that there would be no further fixed or drilled gear placed on the seacliffs of West Cornwall and that the present fixed protection, bolts or pegs, would either be removed or left to rot away and not replaced.
>
> This meeting was attended by about 60 or so people and the protocol agreed by a substantial majority was that there would be no further fixed or drilled gear placed on the seacliffs of West Cornwall and that the present fixed protection, bolts or pegs, would either be removed or left to rot away and not replaced.
Did the Edwards clan sign up to this?
In reply to efrance24234:
Pegs are crap. Except when they're good.
> will someone just replace the bloody pegs ffs.
Pegs are crap. Except when they're good.
In reply to ashtond6: Does anyone ever run the 2 hard pitches (i.e. the traverse and the groove above) into one, would lower any fall factor on the groove pitch.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I don’t know what it is about this route. Every time it’s mentioned you get Al coming on frothing at the mouth about how dreadful it is, and now this nonsense. It’s a pleasant sea-cliff E1 of strong character and great historical interest, no more and no less – granted, a little oversold in KW’s coffee-table work.
<froths at mouth>
I don’t know what it is about this route. Every time it’s mentioned you get Al coming on frothing at the mouth about how dreadful it is, and now this nonsense. It’s a pleasant sea-cliff E1 of strong character and great historical interest, no more and no less – granted, a little oversold in KW’s coffee-table work.
<froths at mouth>
In reply to Michael Hood:
My 2nd led the first diagonal pitch. I led the rest in one pitch. No belay issues at all. d it is still e1 when done like this., plentyof gear too.
Man up princess seekms to sum it up....
My 2nd led the first diagonal pitch. I led the rest in one pitch. No belay issues at all. d it is still e1 when done like this., plentyof gear too.
Man up princess seekms to sum it up....
In reply to ashtond6:
Knowing the guys who took those photos and knowing they aren't the lightest people and from hearing the story of those pegs that flexed and twisted when weighted, 'liquid fear' was how they described it.
Knowing the guys who took those photos and knowing they aren't the lightest people and from hearing the story of those pegs that flexed and twisted when weighted, 'liquid fear' was how they described it.
In reply to ashtond6:
yeah seems stupid to me to change the nature of the route due to rotting pegs
surely increases the grade if you run the pitches together? Longer pitch with apparently hard 5c moves at the top?
yeah seems stupid to me to change the nature of the route due to rotting pegs
surely increases the grade if you run the pitches together? Longer pitch with apparently hard 5c moves at the top?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
That's true but there's nothing 'supposed' about it if you have an inexperienced and over-confident leader who falls off before putting any gear in. I speak from personal experience (as the belayer, not the leader!). I've done a number of daft things over the years but I think dangling face down over the sea, my leader hanging below in the gathering gloom and light snowfall was probably the closest I've come to a premature end to my climbing career. Or any kind of career come to that.
> (In reply to ashtond6)
>
> [...]
>
> The supposed 'FF2 fall' only arises because you've just taken out the pitch's-worth of gear just below you.
>
> [...]
>
> The supposed 'FF2 fall' only arises because you've just taken out the pitch's-worth of gear just below you.
That's true but there's nothing 'supposed' about it if you have an inexperienced and over-confident leader who falls off before putting any gear in. I speak from personal experience (as the belayer, not the leader!). I've done a number of daft things over the years but I think dangling face down over the sea, my leader hanging below in the gathering gloom and light snowfall was probably the closest I've come to a premature end to my climbing career. Or any kind of career come to that.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
There are a 1001 E1s where that is true. E1 is not meant to be a beginners grade and it shouldn't really be treated as such.
> That's true but there's nothing 'supposed' about it if you have an inexperienced and over-confident leader ....
There are a 1001 E1s where that is true. E1 is not meant to be a beginners grade and it shouldn't really be treated as such.
In reply to ashtond6:
I bridged up the groove a couple of moves, but some decent wires in then belay off these back on the ledge. I used one of them for the 1st runner on the next pitch too,
Chris
I bridged up the groove a couple of moves, but some decent wires in then belay off these back on the ledge. I used one of them for the 1st runner on the next pitch too,
Chris
In reply to GrahamD:
I guess that must be true, all I'm saying is that it is an awkward belay and it is perfectly possible to have maximum credible accident if you fail to pay enough attention. Having said that, I can't immediately think of a similar situation of a very popular and accessible route where straightforward 5a climbing lands you at a 5c move that could get the whole party killed.
I can't comment about the state of the belay now, I haven't done it for a few years. I do know that there is plenty of gear if you know what you are doing (I've aided that pitch in bad weather), but people do seem to manage to not put it in, and fall off.
> (In reply to Dave Garnett)
>
> [...]
>
> There are a 1001 E1s where that is true.
>
> [...]
>
> There are a 1001 E1s where that is true.
I guess that must be true, all I'm saying is that it is an awkward belay and it is perfectly possible to have maximum credible accident if you fail to pay enough attention. Having said that, I can't immediately think of a similar situation of a very popular and accessible route where straightforward 5a climbing lands you at a 5c move that could get the whole party killed.
I can't comment about the state of the belay now, I haven't done it for a few years. I do know that there is plenty of gear if you know what you are doing (I've aided that pitch in bad weather), but people do seem to manage to not put it in, and fall off.
In reply to efrance24234:
As others have stated; they are not needed.
> (In reply to ashtond6) will someone just replace the bloody pegs ffs.
As others have stated; they are not needed.
In reply to ashtond6:
Your question has been answered on this thread. The pegs will be left to rot or knocked out. It's then up to you how you deal with this, and as a competent E1 leader you can make your own decisions.
> As I don't know the ethical stance of the area too well, my main question:
> - Will the pegs be left to rot? Or will the pegs be knocked out for good wire placements or replaced just to rot again?
> Thanks
Your question has been answered on this thread. The pegs will be left to rot or knocked out. It's then up to you how you deal with this, and as a competent E1 leader you can make your own decisions.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
I have to admit its a few years since I did it too but I think the point stands : anyone setting off to lead an E1 blindly relying on in situ pegs on a sea cliff shouldn't really be there !
I'm not sure whether I can think of an equivalent situation off the top of my head either but there must be analogous situations requiring sound judgement all round the UK coast.
I have to admit its a few years since I did it too but I think the point stands : anyone setting off to lead an E1 blindly relying on in situ pegs on a sea cliff shouldn't really be there !
I'm not sure whether I can think of an equivalent situation off the top of my head either but there must be analogous situations requiring sound judgement all round the UK coast.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
>I can't immediately think of a similar situation of a very popular and accessible route where straightforward 5a climbing lands you at a 5c move that could get the whole party killed.
My half-witted leader nearly managed to kill the entire party on Spacewalk on Lundy, which I suppose is 5a climbing leading up to a 5c move in the same style. Admittedly my leader was a total prat, but by the sounds of it so was yours.
jcm
>I can't immediately think of a similar situation of a very popular and accessible route where straightforward 5a climbing lands you at a 5c move that could get the whole party killed.
My half-witted leader nearly managed to kill the entire party on Spacewalk on Lundy, which I suppose is 5a climbing leading up to a 5c move in the same style. Admittedly my leader was a total prat, but by the sounds of it so was yours.
jcm
In reply to GrahamD:
To be fair, some sort of warning in the guidebook that a bit of thought might be required wouldn't go amiss. It *is* a popular route and therefore you get muppets on it. I'm all for Darwin, but the occasional concession isn't a bad idea.
jcm
To be fair, some sort of warning in the guidebook that a bit of thought might be required wouldn't go amiss. It *is* a popular route and therefore you get muppets on it. I'm all for Darwin, but the occasional concession isn't a bad idea.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
We were both young and inexperienced, and he was bold with a rather modern attitude to leader falls. This one was fairly short by his standards but the situation was especially inappropriate.
Haven't you just got back from Lundy? This isn't a recent near death experience is it?
> (In reply to Dave Garnett)
>
>Admittedly my leader was a total prat, but by the sounds of it so was yours.>
>
We were both young and inexperienced, and he was bold with a rather modern attitude to leader falls. This one was fairly short by his standards but the situation was especially inappropriate.
Haven't you just got back from Lundy? This isn't a recent near death experience is it?
Post edited at 11:07
In reply to Iain Peters:
decision made
this thread seems to be ongoing since there appears to be polar opposite opinions on this topic
but thanks
> (In reply to ashtond6)
>
> Your question has been answered on this thread. The pegs will be left to rot or knocked out. It's then up to you how you deal with this, and as a competent E1 leader you can make your own decisions.
>
> Your question has been answered on this thread. The pegs will be left to rot or knocked out. It's then up to you how you deal with this, and as a competent E1 leader you can make your own decisions.
decision made
this thread seems to be ongoing since there appears to be polar opposite opinions on this topic
but thanks
In reply to ashtond6:
I thought the nasty move made the route prety unbalanced. Vaguely a small.cam.being useful perhaps essential.
I think I balked as it was probably My 3rd or 4th trad outing of.the year.
I thought the nasty move made the route prety unbalanced. Vaguely a small.cam.being useful perhaps essential.
I think I balked as it was probably My 3rd or 4th trad outing of.the year.
Is there gear behind the pegs? Lets have them out?
If there is a nut placement above the peg and two micro cams or ballnuts or something... Perhaps lead past the stance and net another piece with the rope?
Post edited at 13:47
In reply to GrahamD:
Bang on the money, Graham. I suppose the nearest equivalent might be Eroica, where a long-used and much loved old peg went AWOL, thus changing the route from a popular and relatively benign E2 to a fairly serious E3 or 4 and a possible increase in FF, again reduced by belaying in a different place. Most guides I know already include a warning about the reliance on pegs on sea cliffs and already include mention of fixed gear in the route description.
> I have to admit its a few years since I did it too but I think the point stands : anyone setting off to lead an E1 blindly relying on in situ pegs on a sea cliff shouldn't really be there !
> I'm not sure whether I can think of an equivalent situation off the top of my head either but there must be analogous situations requiring sound judgement all round the UK coast.
Bang on the money, Graham. I suppose the nearest equivalent might be Eroica, where a long-used and much loved old peg went AWOL, thus changing the route from a popular and relatively benign E2 to a fairly serious E3 or 4 and a possible increase in FF, again reduced by belaying in a different place. Most guides I know already include a warning about the reliance on pegs on sea cliffs and already include mention of fixed gear in the route description.
Post edited at 14:13
In reply to ashtond6:
Wow, my photo's created quite a stir!
I put the picture up to see what people thought of it, and as a bit of a warning for anybody thinking of climbing it. It's interesting to hear what people think, but I think the bottom line is that no more bolting is allowed in this area.
Somebody said that phoning our friends to send down a rope is a joke:
Yep, he's right!
It took me a long time to swallow my pride and press the call button (the guys who rescued us still won't shut up about it!). It was a bit weird that I had 3G coverage, yet I can't send a text from my bedroom in the middle of a city. Good old O2!
The solution is, as people have said, to sit on the ledge and back up the bolts with large cams in the horizontal crack. This crossed my mind when I was up there. Unfortunately I'm a student, and as the government don't even lend me enough money to cover my rent, cams aren't number 1 on my list of things to buy (that's beer, followed closely by food and paying off library fines).
A bit of warning about the state of the pegs can't hurt anybody though. I doubt they'll count it as beta. That's kind of the reason I put the photo up there...
Maybe we could have finished the climb, but you've got to question if it's worth genuinely risking your life for the sake of a phone call (and a lot of jokes).
For now I'll stick to HS...
Wow, my photo's created quite a stir!
I put the picture up to see what people thought of it, and as a bit of a warning for anybody thinking of climbing it. It's interesting to hear what people think, but I think the bottom line is that no more bolting is allowed in this area.
Somebody said that phoning our friends to send down a rope is a joke:
Yep, he's right!
It took me a long time to swallow my pride and press the call button (the guys who rescued us still won't shut up about it!). It was a bit weird that I had 3G coverage, yet I can't send a text from my bedroom in the middle of a city. Good old O2!
The solution is, as people have said, to sit on the ledge and back up the bolts with large cams in the horizontal crack. This crossed my mind when I was up there. Unfortunately I'm a student, and as the government don't even lend me enough money to cover my rent, cams aren't number 1 on my list of things to buy (that's beer, followed closely by food and paying off library fines).
A bit of warning about the state of the pegs can't hurt anybody though. I doubt they'll count it as beta. That's kind of the reason I put the photo up there...
Maybe we could have finished the climb, but you've got to question if it's worth genuinely risking your life for the sake of a phone call (and a lot of jokes).
For now I'll stick to HS...
In reply to Chris Joyce:
Not you!
I meant anyone who subsequently wants to lead it! You clearly:
A) Did not know
B) Are skint
If you/I lived local I'd let you borrow some so you could go back and finish the job!
Not you!
I meant anyone who subsequently wants to lead it! You clearly:
A) Did not know
B) Are skint
If you/I lived local I'd let you borrow some so you could go back and finish the job!
Post edited at 17:22
> I remember (15 yrs or so ago) making half a move to place a good cam up right. I don't remember being concerned about the belay. My guidebook says the "peg belays (1989) should be backed up with wires".
>To be fair, some sort of warning in the guidebook that a bit of thought might be required wouldn't go amiss.
The Climbers' Club guide says 'In-situ peg belays should be firmly backed up with wires and a foot-level cam.'
My wife was climbing Commando Ridge while I was on SW and just as she pointed me out to her partner I fell off this pitch. Galling as I'd lead it successfully before. The only damage was a rope-burned leg.
In reply to Nigel Coe:
Took a fall of SW (1991) with my feet level(ish) with the pegs. Ended up a few feet below the belay ledge and my second's belay plate pressed up against the pegs. No back-up. I try not to think about it. The pegs looked ok back then.
Took a fall of SW (1991) with my feet level(ish) with the pegs. Ended up a few feet below the belay ledge and my second's belay plate pressed up against the pegs. No back-up. I try not to think about it. The pegs looked ok back then.
And here we are again...
Ahh, Chris! You even got your tat back from your suicide wall epic My pennies worth: I think phoning a friend if you are in the s&*& is better than mobilising the rescue teams as this seems like critism from one of the comments! Then again (also re-enforcing something else said) should you be up there if you are thinking about abseiling off two shitty pegs? Another option is to use foot level crack where there is a bomber-in-my-mind hex/torque nut placement to back up the pegs and get yourself out. Or can't you afford nuts either? Maybe you just need another set of nuts! (maybe I should point out I know Chris before the ukc onslaught begins)
As Iain and others have said, pegs aren't the best things to rely on around the coast. Despite intial objection I am thinking that the encouraged departure of the peg on LBJ is a good thing if people constantly rely on the pegs. Thinking back to what looked like a reasonable peg belay on the gower for my second to have a "moment" when two of these fell off in his hand during the disassembling of the belay. Could have been alot worse.
I was thinking, and probably would if I went back, to avoid the FF2 fall tyou can climb through using the pegs as additional protection. There is the horizontal foot-level crack, a microcam and a shitty small wire in addition. Maybe the route will actually become safer in terms of the belay the sooner the pegs finally give out. Apart from the ledge itself, the fall is pretty clear. Then again you might miss out on being mounted by your climbing partner, sorry assisted, using the aid-approach to SW.
As I understand from the Eroica example, relying on the peg can add a whole different level to your adventure climbing
Ahh, Chris! You even got your tat back from your suicide wall epic My pennies worth: I think phoning a friend if you are in the s&*& is better than mobilising the rescue teams as this seems like critism from one of the comments! Then again (also re-enforcing something else said) should you be up there if you are thinking about abseiling off two shitty pegs? Another option is to use foot level crack where there is a bomber-in-my-mind hex/torque nut placement to back up the pegs and get yourself out. Or can't you afford nuts either? Maybe you just need another set of nuts! (maybe I should point out I know Chris before the ukc onslaught begins)
As Iain and others have said, pegs aren't the best things to rely on around the coast. Despite intial objection I am thinking that the encouraged departure of the peg on LBJ is a good thing if people constantly rely on the pegs. Thinking back to what looked like a reasonable peg belay on the gower for my second to have a "moment" when two of these fell off in his hand during the disassembling of the belay. Could have been alot worse.
I was thinking, and probably would if I went back, to avoid the FF2 fall tyou can climb through using the pegs as additional protection. There is the horizontal foot-level crack, a microcam and a shitty small wire in addition. Maybe the route will actually become safer in terms of the belay the sooner the pegs finally give out. Apart from the ledge itself, the fall is pretty clear. Then again you might miss out on being mounted by your climbing partner, sorry assisted, using the aid-approach to SW.
As I understand from the Eroica example, relying on the peg can add a whole different level to your adventure climbing
In reply to ashtond6:
I was more concerned about the glassy finish to the holds on the coal face I never even considered the existence of pegs and wouldn't put too much faith in them anyway.
I was more concerned about the glassy finish to the holds on the coal face I never even considered the existence of pegs and wouldn't put too much faith in them anyway.
In reply to SteveoS:
Did they take small wires up with them? The belay is good, I think we got about 6 small wires and a good cam on that belay. A bigger worry is the nails 5c crux straight above the belay
Edd
Did they take small wires up with them? The belay is good, I think we got about 6 small wires and a good cam on that belay. A bigger worry is the nails 5c crux straight above the belay
Edd
In reply to ashtond6:
Did it a couple of years ago, remember using pegs and other placements including microcam at belay, second took a fall at tricky final move of traverse, big cam still in place in break so FF reduced, but system held up ok.
Did it a couple of years ago, remember using pegs and other placements including microcam at belay, second took a fall at tricky final move of traverse, big cam still in place in break so FF reduced, but system held up ok.
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