UKC

My climbing partners very bright, very cheap, year old, headtorch failed last night at a vital moment, my similar but not identical unit has also turned it's self off at times when I would have preferred it not to
Will not be using this again in critical applications but probably hang on to it for route finding

In reply to John Kelly:

Any clues other than very cheap? Any identifying colour schemes for example, perhaps reminiscent of a stinging insect? Or maybe part of a kit you would take to a particular range?

Inquiring minds need to know

In reply to John Kelly:

I always thought route finding was fairly critical!

In reply to davidbeynon:

Sorry not sure, 3x cree ( allegedly) 17 quid, head 'harness' style, online

In reply to alasdair19:

No you are quite wrong there, would take all the fun out of it

In reply to John Kelly:

I suppose this is a lesson in where you can and can't save money safely. Although I have a BD head torch, so a reputable manufacturer, I do wonder if I should be carrying something like a petzl e-light just in case. Having your torch die while out alone in winter could really spoil your day if not worse.

In reply to John Kelly:

So one of the L E D l e n s e r copies off ebay then?

I had a couple, cheap, bright but wholly unreliable. You get what you pay for.

R

In reply to Roberttaylor: and Gethin

Yes, get what you pay for
there are technologies that have dropped radically in price, digital imaging is an example, however I went too early on this one

In reply to John Kelly:

Buy cheap, buy twice, as they say.

In a climbing situation where you need reliability, then you have to go for a tried and tested brand; after all safety is paramount.

I have a Led Lenser on my helmet, and as back-up a Petzl head torch in the top pocket of my rucksack, and as a back-up to that I have a tiny BD head torch (can't remember the model name) sealed in plastic in the bottom of my chalkbag. Why do I do this? Experience.

In reply to Removed User:

When climbing I tend to have one on my head and one round my neck, petzl
My mate has second on harness but had a hilarious struggle last night getting organised

In reply to John Kelly:

I've had expensive BD and petzl head torches fail! Always carry 2 now during vital climbs

In reply to ashtond6:

Petzl have never let me down, managed to pull wire out of bd battery pack couple of times
Tikka style design seems to be pretty bombproof provided you don't get too cold

In reply to Removed User:

Jesus....you take more lights than I do when I'm caving.

In reply to gethin_allen:


I've had 2 Petzl Myos fail on me due to the same fault which they knew about and which went unremedied. It may have been remedied since. My 15 quid alpkit is still going strong though.

It isn't as simple as expensive = better.

In reply to John Kelly:

A colleague and I went bouldering at Brownstones one evening in the depths of winter a few years back, and his cheapo supermarket headtorch instantly snapped in half upon contact with the -5C conditions. We shared my flawless Petzl after that, and he bought one of those soon afterwards.

What I've never understood about head torch design though, is why even for the small AAA type designs, some good manufacturers have reverted to the battery pack at the back of the head with a wire around to the light at the front. The wire is a design flaw in my mind and it also makes the design overall look cr*p.

In reply to DaveHK:

I've had 2 alpkit ones fail, one in a pretty inconvenient situation during an early alpine start. Given up on them now.

I now use an Energizer one, which cost £7, puts out a better beam than the alpkit one and hasn't broken (yet) on 10+ trips.

Everyone seems to have their story of headtorches failing, and their own prejudices against brand X or brand Y. Seems like a lot of them are unreliable in some way or other.

In reply to gethin_allen:


You would think. My most expensive head torch is a very robustly made Hope model, which keeps cutting out for no reason.

In reply to John Kelly:

Like many old gits, I had a Petzl Zoom for decades, which I upgraded with a halogen bulb.
Apart from bulbs and elastic that gradually lost its elasticity, it was simple and fairly robust.

In recent years I've has a Petzl Tikka, but the model I had was fairly dim, and not a lot of use on the hill. I replaced it with an Alpkit Gamma. SWMBO also got a Gamma at the same time and the main LED on hers was noticeably brighter than mine (tested swapping batts etc). A weakness on the Gamma is the twisty battery case cover. Broke mine, but AK replaced it FOC. The multifunction switch also developed a mind of its own on the replacement and the rear facing red LED has also packed up. SWMBO's original Gamma is just fine (maybe she looks after it better?). Gammas are also prone to switch on easily in a pack, hence we both carry ours inside small Lock&Lock boxes. Gamma still good value tho'.
I had an LED Lenser briefly - very bright, but the angle adjustment system failed quickly so that the head unit now just flops down.
Now have an Alpkit Arc on order.
N

In reply to cousin nick:


If you write to them nicely, they may give you a new improved replacement. I had the same issue, sent the old one to them on a Thursday and had a new one the following Tuesday. The new angle adjustment system is much better.

In reply to The New NickB:


That is a shame, I'd expect Hope to make good stuff, I bet it looks proper bling though

In reply to DaveHK:

"My 15 quid alpkit is still going strong though...."

Is this a gamma headtorch? I've heard about loads of problems with these

The last petzl headtorch I had was a zoom halogen, the ones that took the massive batteries, I had that for years then bought a BD Icon which I have had for about 7 years now. I am tempted to buy something new just to take advantage of the newer LED technology but I can't bring myself to spent money replacing something that so far has worked great.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I agree; I've a couple of LED lenser H7 headtorches, which I rate highly. I tried a couple of the ebay copies as a cheap ones to leave in the car or for DIY jobs, but they seem to allow the batteries to discharge even when switched off. OK for occasional DIY, but not when I need to rely on them.

To the OP: was yours due to battery issues or unreliable kit?
Many years ago I had a battery failure at a critical moment on a long Scottish winter route just after Christmas. Before setting out I put fresh rechargeable batteries in my Petzl Zoom headtorch; as it got dark quite early we put headtorches on, but mine didn't last long - neither I nor my friends nor I were impressed with this judgement (nor that none of us had spare batteries of any kind with us).
A characteristic of rechargeable batteries (NiMH, NiZn and NiCd), is that they maintain a fairly constant voltage until nearly fully discharged, but then the voltage plummets without warning. At least alkalines have a long steady discharge rate, with a gradual dimming.

In reply to RichMoss:

Though the flip side of that is since most modern headtorches are (at least to a degree) regulated, they have the sudden drop off anyway. The Bonus being (at least according to Petzl) that their torches with constant lighting will burn for longer on rechargeables compared to alkalines (http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Rechargeable-energy-sources?ProductName=MYO&a... and you get good lighting performance for longer. Sitting inbetween Ni-Mh and Li-ion you have hybrid types (e.g. Eneloops) which seem to give you the best of both, with only a miniscule self discharge over time, little / no memory effect and convenience that you can replace them with standard AAs if needed. Also can double up as spares for other electronic devices using AAs.

I seem to remember that the zooms with the AA conversion pack had awful battery life - I went back to using the more expensive single cell versions after a few winter outings.

Its a good point you raise though - your torch is only ever going to be as good / reliable as it's batteries - poor batteries, whether rechargeable or alkaline = poor performance and stumbling home in the dark or worse!

Cheers,

Stuart

In reply to DaveHK:

Same here with the Myos. I don't trust them at all anymore. Looking for one that I really trust now, possibly the BD Storm or Icon.

In reply to John Kelly:

I've been using the cheap Cree running headtorches for years no with no problems, and they seem to far outperform the 'named' brands above for a fraction of the price.

They will cut out if the battery is knackered, have you tried with a new battery (they cost a tenner online)?
The other thing to be aware of is that some of batteries use a connector that isn't that great and can lose the connection with the torch, especially if it's stretched (e.g. battery is in a bumbag and the torch on your head). If this happens a bit of tape to stick them together helps (or a different battery)

Otherwise, if you're on your own or light is critical then you need a backup headtorch of some sort, a little petzl tikka or something that you can at least walk home with as anything can fail!

In reply to gethin_allen:



Its a Viper. I've used it loads. I too see the separate battery pack as a weakness now due to loose connections. It does however move weight away from the front which makes the light bounce around less especially when running.

In reply to jimjimjim:

I have started carrying two on the grounds that it is easier to pull another torch out of the bag than it is to reload AAA batteries in the dark with cold fingers. The spare is my old Petzl Tikka XP which really isn't noticeably heavier than just taking spare batteries.

In reply to cousin nick:

Still have my Zoom somewhere, including halogen bulb and AA adapter. Elastic lasted fine, it was the cable that failed. Ended up coming off a hill in the dark once when it turned itself on in my rucksack, flattened the new battery and I didn't have a spare.

I use an older style Tikka XP these days - in fact, I have 2 of them. Hopeless for running, but fine for most other things.

I have a True Utility torch that was brilliant - until the internals bust. Must get round to re-soldering the connections.

In reply to Mark Collins:


Agree the wire is a weak point, but the idea is to balance the weight. Makes quite a difference if you're running, as the light unit is less prone to bouncing around without the battery weight.

In reply to John Kelly:

Has anyone noticed with the new Petzl head-torches they come with a rechargeable battery but you can't use your own replacement in it? I was quite surprised when I replaced mine and couldn't work out how you put in emergency AAAs.

I used to keep a spare set of batteries and an e-Lite

In reply to LastBoyScout:


Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It really would be nice to get a designers perspective on some of the decisions, but I guess those guys never get to see the light of day though.

In reply to JoshOvki:

You have to buy a separate AAA unit for the new Petzl range.

In reply to Aly:


Petzl E Lite:

http://www.petzl.com/en/Professional/Ultra-compact-headlamps/ePLUSLITE?l=IN...

Great bit of kit.

In reply to Aly:


Petzl E Lite:

http://www.petzl.com/en/Professional/Ultra-compact-headlamps/ePLUSLITE?l=IN...

Great bit of kit.

In reply to LastBoyScout:


I can't say I have ever really noticed this problem, despite lots of experience of running with loads of different head torches.

In reply

Failure mode

The switch and cable seem fine, I think the LED is overheating, does that make sense

Petzl Zoom (with halogen) happy memories, 20 mins of impressive performance followed by 4 hrs of gloom

In reply to Removed User:
I invested in a top of range LED/halogen hybrid black diamond headtorch (vectra iq) a few years back. It was the most unreliable hunk of junk I've ever come across- light levels kept varying, batteries inexplicably suddenly ran out- absolute rubbish.

On the other hand,my £6.99 led lenser copies are tough as old boots, and I can carry three of those for less than a quarter of the price of something flash. In these days of ubiquitous cheap LEDs I'll need a lot of persuading before I shell out proper money on a headtorch again.

In reply to Siward:

I had one of those vectra iqs too. Heap of. Broke after one trip. The flashing light to help you find it kept my tent partners awake, until it failed. They were happy then.

In reply to JoshOvki:

Hate switch in new tikka, old one was much better

In reply to John Kelly:

While on the subject of headtorches, can I point out the obvious fact that the most important thing about a headtorch is that it is easy to change the batteries in the dark. Instead the major manufactures seem to specialise in fiddly hard to open and close containers which the batteries fall out of while you fiddle with them and leave you all nostalgic for the original Petzl thing from the 80's with a big tub that the big flat battery just sat in with a lid held down by elastic. Petzl are now the worst offenders.

In reply to Robert Durran:
Yes, really difficult in dark, for a full night time trip I'm going to take a spare torch.
The zoom had a spare bulb, never changed that in dark

In reply to Robert Durran:

The old Petzls were also fairly easy to fix if they stopped working. I remember taking my Partners Zoom to bits at the bottom of the Brenva Face and fixing a dodgy connection.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Robert you have clearly not met the Black Diamond Spot 130. Bizarre push with both hands on smooth bits of plastic at the base (after having searched for Utube videos for how to do it for half an hour, looking at the torch offers no clues at all), then use a Swiss army knife and nearly wreck the torch in the process. Absurdly light switch that goes on in your sack if you so much as think the words "dead battery", always works when you don't want it and seldom when you do. Has ridiculously over-fussy "tap technology" that is completely random about the light level you get, if it doesn't decide to put you in some bizarre mode that you never dreamed existed and can think of no conceivable use for and have not a snowball in hells chance of getting out of.

Anyone want to buy a Black Diamond Spot 130, going cheap? Quite cheap actually, in fact may be found at the bottom of an Alpine peak where it has been thrown in disgust and rage. On the other hand, the £8 torch bought in an electrical shop is bombproof, simple and works every time it has been needed.

In reply to Simon4:

BD- cams
DMM- binders
Petzl-headtorchs

In reply to Robert Durran:

I do carry a small lightweight torch as a backup rather than spare batteries but I've often pondered this paradox and only just this minute have I realised that your phone (held in the mouth in all likelihood) would act as a back-up torch for the purposes of seeing sufficiently well to change a battery.

In reply to Simon4:

Hi Simon, agree changing batteries is a bit fiddly, but if you hold down the main button for six seconds the head torch 'locks' meaning it cannot turn on in your pack. Unlocking requires a further six second push. I have found this function very useful...

In reply to Simon4:


Brilliant! I was just about to say my BD Spot is the easiest headtorch I've ever had when it comes to changing batteries but i think i have the much older 90 lumen version.

In reply to maxsmith:
Yes, I know about the 6 second lock thing, promoted as a "feature". What they actually mean is "this torch is completely useless without the lock, due to our gross, over-engineered, f*k-up, so we will pretend we are doing you a favour by retrofitting this annoying but essential delay to what should be a simple device". The angle fixing is too rigid as well, so if you try to adjust it, the chances are that it will :

1) point at the sky
2) point at your feet
3) plunge you into darkness, because as you try to adjust the angle, you hit the absurdly sensitive on/off switch

As for the "tap technology", that is just a joke, albeit not a very funny one at 4 in the morning on a cold Alpine slope, when your sense of humour is limited at best.

I have several BD headtorches from the days when they were simple and had chunky switches that never went on or off except when wanted, so have no inherent hatred of Black Diamond. But this is just fussy for the sake of fussy, ignoring the basic rules of headtorches :

1) work every time
2) give reasonably adequate light, for the length of time that you are in the dark, with a good safety margin left over
3) if you can be bright and work for a long time, then great, but never, ever compromise 1 and 2 above

Petzl seem to have a much better idea with a chunky on/off switch that requires a 2 second press to go on or off, also that starts at low brightness and has to be switched to strong when you need it.

BD are not the only culprits in over-design of headtorches of course, when you see descriptions of "how to download the software for your headtorch", you know that engineering masturbation has gone into overdrive, shortly to be followed by meltdown.

In reply to John Kelly


The new tikkas are nasty though, there is no water proof battery compartment and the button is a pain to use with gloves.

In reply to John Kelly:

My 2 peneth

I had a Petzl MYO which failed when the cable attachment at the head unit came loose. Known fault so they sent me a FOC replacement.

I've now got a Tikka RXP as I love the reactive lighting, and much prefer to top up the battery after every use like a smart phone (cigarette lighter attachment). If I go away anywhere I'll take a spare battery fully charged. A very easy swap.

I did prefer running with the MYO as the batteries being at the back stopped it bouncing so much, but the Tikka's swimming-goggle style strap is much better than a single strap.

When winter climbing I take an eLite as my safety backup. When it's critical, always have a spare.

I've got a CREE torch, but would never dream of using it on it's own. It's solely used for night time bouldering, but the Petzl always comes with me too. I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, but when it eventually dies, I'll buy another even brighter one for even less money.

In reply to galpinos:

Second Petzl E+Lite. It's so great. Pretty bright and very easy to use. Seems fairly durable as well. It's also lighter than three spare AAA batteries.

I am looking for a new torch as my current BD headlight (Storm, or whatever it's called) is giving up. The batteries no longer stay due to the fiddly design. If you open the battery compartment upside down, you might never see batteries again (that's what happened to me). I know it would be very limited, but integrating headlamp into a lightweight helmet might be an option. At the same time, I think it's a terrible idea. But...

In reply to John Kelly:

I've just refurbed my old Petzl Zoom with some new elastic (30p/m) and a LED bulb form Reflectalight (NL343) http://www.reflectalite.com/LEDpage.html It's considerably brighter than the halogen bulbs and uses far less power. Well recommended.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I too still have my zoom somewhere. Interested see see that an led conversion is available.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TTS-1WCREE-MES-E10-suitable-Headtorches/dp/B009E3SV...

In reply to Simon2005:

Chucked mine out in last couple years, gutted

Ive got one of those 3 cree LED headlights from China that I mostly use for sea fishing.

Had a couple of issues like it randomly cycling function when it got wet...

So I took it to bits and packed it out with dielectric grease which solved all of the issues and took less than 5 mins.