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For years whenever I've seen anyone sea kayaking I've always thought it looks great fun but never got round to trying it.So I was hoping to pick some brains on here.
firstly im not really into clubs and for certain reasons committing to set dates and times especially at weekends is difficult for me hence the reason hillwalking was an ideal choice for me, sort of billy no mates pastime when it suits or with friends when it fits in better.
So the main question is is sea kayaking a suitable/safe pastime to learn on your own outside a club environment and with no mates that do it either.
Anytime ive seen anyone doing they have always been in a minimum of two which perhaps suggests otherwise, or is it just a social aspect.
my idea would be to attend some courses to see if I like it as there a re a few places near me that do it and I live at the coast on the west of Scotland.
The idea would be to learn the basics then build up experience mostly on my own. is this a reasonable idea or am I way off ?
Id also be interested in what the kind of basic set up costs are for a full set of kit including of course a kayak.
Thanks.
Post edited at 22:04
In reply to buzby:
Well you are very lucky living on the West Coast Of Scotland, jammy sod and yes there are very good reasons why you aren't seeing many solo paddlers about, to much to go into here.
Like you said, iic you don't want t join a local club get yourself on a course at centre and you will realise how much there is to it, I hope you enjoy it its a great hobby,
Well you are very lucky living on the West Coast Of Scotland, jammy sod and yes there are very good reasons why you aren't seeing many solo paddlers about, to much to go into here.
Like you said, iic you don't want t join a local club get yourself on a course at centre and you will realise how much there is to it, I hope you enjoy it its a great hobby,
1
In reply to Bernard Shakey:
Hmmm, thought that might have been the case, I do a fair bit of camping on the west coast and though after a day in the hills a paddle about would have been great. Im guessing its not considered safe to go solo.
Hmmm, thought that might have been the case, I do a fair bit of camping on the west coast and though after a day in the hills a paddle about would have been great. Im guessing its not considered safe to go solo.
In reply to buzby:
I don't sea kayak but the safety aspect seems self evident. If it goes wrong when you're alone then you're f*cked
I don't sea kayak but the safety aspect seems self evident. If it goes wrong when you're alone then you're f*cked
1
In reply to buzby:
Having been rescued by friends a number of times, the thought of going solo brings me out in a cold sweat. People do it, but they are very, very experienced.
Having been rescued by friends a number of times, the thought of going solo brings me out in a cold sweat. People do it, but they are very, very experienced.
In reply to buzby:
Unfortunately it is one of those activities which is far safer with a group, and solo sea kayakers are normally only the very experienced.
However, it depends on your ambitions, I guess. If you are happy to limit yourself to short trips on known, calm, sheltered waters, and maybe get some coaching first, it isnt impossible if you have a common sense approach.
One option might be one of the better sit-on-tops, (not a cheap one, min 13 ft), as with practice they can be much easier to self rescue on to. However, I would still recommend going with others on anything remotely more adventurous, and knowledge of things like tides is far more complex than it seems at first!
UKRGB is a good source of info, but for Sit on Tops you might find the kayak fishing forums useful too.
Unfortunately it is one of those activities which is far safer with a group, and solo sea kayakers are normally only the very experienced.
However, it depends on your ambitions, I guess. If you are happy to limit yourself to short trips on known, calm, sheltered waters, and maybe get some coaching first, it isnt impossible if you have a common sense approach.
One option might be one of the better sit-on-tops, (not a cheap one, min 13 ft), as with practice they can be much easier to self rescue on to. However, I would still recommend going with others on anything remotely more adventurous, and knowledge of things like tides is far more complex than it seems at first!
UKRGB is a good source of info, but for Sit on Tops you might find the kayak fishing forums useful too.
1
In reply to buzby:
Plenty of sensible answers so far on the thread, but here's my extra two pence' worth.
Rather than just saying it's not considered safe to go solo (quite a lot of people don't consider it safe to go walking or climbing solo, after all), here's one of the key reasons sea kayaking can catch you out, even in a group: the fact that the water is very much more affected by weather than solid ground is.
For example, when walking alone, you can decide that things are looking tricky, stop for a while to think about it, and then - unless you've climbed something you can't downclimb - turn back if that seems safest. The ground's unlikely to have changed much in the meantime.
On the sea, on the other hand, by the time you're in a place where the wind, waves or current seem too challenging, you usually can't actually stop - even if you're not paddling, the water will be tossing you around and taking you somewhere (often somewhere you really don't want to be). And then if you turn round, it's just as likely the route you came by will also have blown up into unfriendly conditions so that there is no easy way back.
This is why Mal Grey's recommendation of "calm sheltered waters" is very sensible. Ditto going with other people till you've learned the basics, having a solid self-rescue in rough conditions, and learning as much as you can about tides and waves.
Sorry if all that seems obvious, but even knowing this I've had my share of surprises on the water so I hope it was worth pointing out.
Plenty of sensible answers so far on the thread, but here's my extra two pence' worth.
Rather than just saying it's not considered safe to go solo (quite a lot of people don't consider it safe to go walking or climbing solo, after all), here's one of the key reasons sea kayaking can catch you out, even in a group: the fact that the water is very much more affected by weather than solid ground is.
For example, when walking alone, you can decide that things are looking tricky, stop for a while to think about it, and then - unless you've climbed something you can't downclimb - turn back if that seems safest. The ground's unlikely to have changed much in the meantime.
On the sea, on the other hand, by the time you're in a place where the wind, waves or current seem too challenging, you usually can't actually stop - even if you're not paddling, the water will be tossing you around and taking you somewhere (often somewhere you really don't want to be). And then if you turn round, it's just as likely the route you came by will also have blown up into unfriendly conditions so that there is no easy way back.
This is why Mal Grey's recommendation of "calm sheltered waters" is very sensible. Ditto going with other people till you've learned the basics, having a solid self-rescue in rough conditions, and learning as much as you can about tides and waves.
Sorry if all that seems obvious, but even knowing this I've had my share of surprises on the water so I hope it was worth pointing out.
Post edited at 00:42
7
In reply to buzby:
As usual yes and no.
Clearly when you are learning no. But if you are experienced absolutely.
So by the time you can plan tides, understand the effect of wind on the water, self rescue, have a solid role eg both sides every time, dress for the water not the air temps, navigate, you'd be fine. Get loads of safety kit, vhf, plb, flares.
I've done lots of beach surfing on my own, lots of trips on flat water days and a few tricky trips solo like circumnavigation of holy island on Anglesey with big tides.
It's basically like soling, intense at times, not everyone's cup of tea, but very very cool.
I've met very experienced paddlers solo at big races off south stack just chilling for hours on the waves.
All the best
Mark
As usual yes and no.
Clearly when you are learning no. But if you are experienced absolutely.
So by the time you can plan tides, understand the effect of wind on the water, self rescue, have a solid role eg both sides every time, dress for the water not the air temps, navigate, you'd be fine. Get loads of safety kit, vhf, plb, flares.
I've done lots of beach surfing on my own, lots of trips on flat water days and a few tricky trips solo like circumnavigation of holy island on Anglesey with big tides.
It's basically like soling, intense at times, not everyone's cup of tea, but very very cool.
I've met very experienced paddlers solo at big races off south stack just chilling for hours on the waves.
All the best
Mark
1
In reply to buzby:
2nd hand glass boat 1k
2 sets splits 300 minimum
Dry suit 300 to 500
Spray deck 50
Pfd 100
Vhf 100
Plb 100
Obvs second hand cheaper. Lots of second hand boats about. Getting the boat on the car on your isn't easy either.
Gordon Brown not the ex pm, in skye is highly recommended.
2nd hand glass boat 1k
2 sets splits 300 minimum
Dry suit 300 to 500
Spray deck 50
Pfd 100
Vhf 100
Plb 100
Obvs second hand cheaper. Lots of second hand boats about. Getting the boat on the car on your isn't easy either.
Gordon Brown not the ex pm, in skye is highly recommended.
In reply to buzby:
Thanks for all the info, as I suspected it sounds like a group activity, ambition wise I was thinking more of a potter about in calm waters after a day in the hills when camping up north as opposed to big sea going adventures so the sit on kayak sounds like it might fit the bill.
Anyway think I will book myself on a come and try day that I can get at Millport on the Clyde. I live within a few mins of a nice coastline with some well sheltered islands so it would also be great for a quick play on summer nights after work.
Thanks for all the info, as I suspected it sounds like a group activity, ambition wise I was thinking more of a potter about in calm waters after a day in the hills when camping up north as opposed to big sea going adventures so the sit on kayak sounds like it might fit the bill.
Anyway think I will book myself on a come and try day that I can get at Millport on the Clyde. I live within a few mins of a nice coastline with some well sheltered islands so it would also be great for a quick play on summer nights after work.
In reply to buzby:
If you fancy some instruction to get you up to speed, I would recommend Nick Ray who's based out of Tobermory. He knows quite a lot about the 'challenges' of solo sea kayaking as he paddled 2015 miles around all the Lifeboat Stations in Scotland on his own.
nick@clearwaterpaddling.com
If you fancy some instruction to get you up to speed, I would recommend Nick Ray who's based out of Tobermory. He knows quite a lot about the 'challenges' of solo sea kayaking as he paddled 2015 miles around all the Lifeboat Stations in Scotland on his own.
nick@clearwaterpaddling.com
1
In reply to aln:
So is hillwalking/scrambling on your own?
I guess it's a question of risk vs consequence.
> I don't sea kayak but the safety aspect seems self evident. If it goes wrong when you're alone then you're f*cked
So is hillwalking/scrambling on your own?
I guess it's a question of risk vs consequence.
In reply to buzby:
To learn on your own, no not really, but some of the replies above are perhaps a tad risk-averse. You don't need to be massively experienced to paddle alone reasonably safely, but you do need pretty solid self-rescue skills obviously. The skills to stay out of trouble in the first place probably go hand in hand with those, and after that it really comes down to where you choose to paddle. As with scrambling/hill walking, some trips are more committing than others!
I paddle on the sea on my tod semi-regularly now, as a relative beginner. I hadn't paddled at all before about August 2015. Since then I've put a fair bit of time and effort into it though - starting with a 5-day "intromediate" course with Phil Clegg at Sea Kayaking Anglesey (can't recommend them highly enough - but no good to you up in Scotland obviously). I think I've had about a further 12 days or so of actual tuition/coaching, and joined guided groups for a further couple of weekends at symposiums and wotnot.
During the winter I've been going to pool sessions with a local white-water club - it's an excellent environment to work on rolling. And because Sheffield is such a dreadful place to live as far as getting to the seaside goes, I've been doing a bit of white-water paddling too - can be fun it it's own right and many of the moving water skills are directly transferable to the sea - tide races and wotnot.
It's a bit early to be talking about your own boat, you'll need to try a few before you have any idea what you want probably. Plastic boats have come on a lot in the last few years, cheaper and more robust than glass boats they're also heavier and slower (but not by as much as they used to be). If you do manage to break one though, they're much more difficult to repair than fibreglass. New you're talking about £1300 odd as opposed to £2200 odd for fibreglass.
A couple of bits of kit that haven't been mentioned so far are a paddle float and a bilge pump/bailer - if you're on your own it's essential that you can get back in the boat after a swim and stay upright while you bail out a flooded cockpit. Oh, and a decent trolley would be useful too - you don't want to carry a sea kayak too far on your own, especially loaded with kit. £20-30 each for paddle float & bilge pump. Probably another £100 for a trolley.
I've not paddled with Gordon Brown myself, but hear good things first-hand from several folk who have so would second the recommendation above: http://www.skyakadventures.com/
If you're not sure you want to spend all this money, these two books will be dangerous for you:
https://www.pesdapress.com/index.php/product/scottish-sea-kayaking
https://www.pesdapress.com/index.php/product/skye-and-north-west-highlands-...
> So the main question is is sea kayaking a suitable/safe pastime to learn on your own outside a club environment and with no mates that do it either.
To learn on your own, no not really, but some of the replies above are perhaps a tad risk-averse. You don't need to be massively experienced to paddle alone reasonably safely, but you do need pretty solid self-rescue skills obviously. The skills to stay out of trouble in the first place probably go hand in hand with those, and after that it really comes down to where you choose to paddle. As with scrambling/hill walking, some trips are more committing than others!
I paddle on the sea on my tod semi-regularly now, as a relative beginner. I hadn't paddled at all before about August 2015. Since then I've put a fair bit of time and effort into it though - starting with a 5-day "intromediate" course with Phil Clegg at Sea Kayaking Anglesey (can't recommend them highly enough - but no good to you up in Scotland obviously). I think I've had about a further 12 days or so of actual tuition/coaching, and joined guided groups for a further couple of weekends at symposiums and wotnot.
During the winter I've been going to pool sessions with a local white-water club - it's an excellent environment to work on rolling. And because Sheffield is such a dreadful place to live as far as getting to the seaside goes, I've been doing a bit of white-water paddling too - can be fun it it's own right and many of the moving water skills are directly transferable to the sea - tide races and wotnot.
It's a bit early to be talking about your own boat, you'll need to try a few before you have any idea what you want probably. Plastic boats have come on a lot in the last few years, cheaper and more robust than glass boats they're also heavier and slower (but not by as much as they used to be). If you do manage to break one though, they're much more difficult to repair than fibreglass. New you're talking about £1300 odd as opposed to £2200 odd for fibreglass.
A couple of bits of kit that haven't been mentioned so far are a paddle float and a bilge pump/bailer - if you're on your own it's essential that you can get back in the boat after a swim and stay upright while you bail out a flooded cockpit. Oh, and a decent trolley would be useful too - you don't want to carry a sea kayak too far on your own, especially loaded with kit. £20-30 each for paddle float & bilge pump. Probably another £100 for a trolley.
I've not paddled with Gordon Brown myself, but hear good things first-hand from several folk who have so would second the recommendation above: http://www.skyakadventures.com/
If you're not sure you want to spend all this money, these two books will be dangerous for you:
https://www.pesdapress.com/index.php/product/scottish-sea-kayaking
https://www.pesdapress.com/index.php/product/skye-and-north-west-highlands-...
1
In reply to deepsoup:
Hi , Thanks very much for the detailed response. It makes interesting reading. think will take your advice and go for a course initially and see how I like it. As I said above what I had in mind was a way to fill summer evenings after a day on the hills on camping trips up north and as I plan to spend a fair bit of time exploring the islands of the west coast of Scotland, something I've neglected over the years.
in the 90s I used to do a lot of scuba diving and it feels like it might have the same principle. everything to do with diving was based on a buddy system for safety, but once i became experienced I did a fair bit of solo diving in shallow safe water, something that was frowned upon back then but was actually pretty safe.
I've spent a fair amount of time around the sea in boats so ive got a good appreciation of how nasty the sea can get, but without a rib with twin 75 engines on the back to get you out of trouble I guess it a whole different ball game.
thanks a lot of food for thought.
Hi , Thanks very much for the detailed response. It makes interesting reading. think will take your advice and go for a course initially and see how I like it. As I said above what I had in mind was a way to fill summer evenings after a day on the hills on camping trips up north and as I plan to spend a fair bit of time exploring the islands of the west coast of Scotland, something I've neglected over the years.
in the 90s I used to do a lot of scuba diving and it feels like it might have the same principle. everything to do with diving was based on a buddy system for safety, but once i became experienced I did a fair bit of solo diving in shallow safe water, something that was frowned upon back then but was actually pretty safe.
I've spent a fair amount of time around the sea in boats so ive got a good appreciation of how nasty the sea can get, but without a rib with twin 75 engines on the back to get you out of trouble I guess it a whole different ball game.
thanks a lot of food for thought.
In reply to buzby:
Rather then a kayak, look at Surf skis. It may not be right for you, but they are easier to self rescue in that you don't roll them.
Look at getting a stable ski intermediate ski if you can spend several months learning on a beginner ski initially. They can be very tippy.
Downwind riding is fantastic fun...
youtube.com/watch?v=rZVyl06BPxQ&
Good for a 2 hour blast, not so good for away day on the water.
Surf ski £1500
Paddle £250-£350
Pfd £80
Wetsuits 2x £150
Radio £200 (cheap model with GPS and dsc) or £140 without dsc
Other personal warm kit £100
Leashes £40
Car roof rack system £90
Flares and or plb £50 ; £200
Maps, charts, compass, GPS Watch?
Radio licensing £100 with training and exam.
Only go by myself on fairly benign conditions and even then accept that things may go wrong... And it may kill you.
Rather then a kayak, look at Surf skis. It may not be right for you, but they are easier to self rescue in that you don't roll them.
Look at getting a stable ski intermediate ski if you can spend several months learning on a beginner ski initially. They can be very tippy.
Downwind riding is fantastic fun...
youtube.com/watch?v=rZVyl06BPxQ&
Good for a 2 hour blast, not so good for away day on the water.
Surf ski £1500
Paddle £250-£350
Pfd £80
Wetsuits 2x £150
Radio £200 (cheap model with GPS and dsc) or £140 without dsc
Other personal warm kit £100
Leashes £40
Car roof rack system £90
Flares and or plb £50 ; £200
Maps, charts, compass, GPS Watch?
Radio licensing £100 with training and exam.
Only go by myself on fairly benign conditions and even then accept that things may go wrong... And it may kill you.
Post edited at 23:17
In reply to deepsoup:
I would cautiously agree. I wouldn't class myself as highly experienced, but I'd say I know enough to understand the dangers and do go out for the occasional solo paddle, although in flat calm or slight seas and with a high confidence forecast for benign conditions. I spent a year or so doing white water (only up to grade III) many years ago where I learnt to paddle, and many of the skills come in useful in sea kayaking, especially for rock hopping. I've since done a handful of paddles around Anglesy, including the Stacks, a great trip with an interesting view point of the Gogarth cliffs. More recently a few paddles aound the Aberdeenshire coast and a fantastic solo trip in Arasiag on a flat calm, sunny day.
to buzby - As others have said, learn to be a competent paddler in the company of others. I'd also recommend trying plastic boats. As deepsoup said, a lot more robust, and if you're learning amoungst rocks there's a pretty high chance you'll be bumping off some of them.
Make sure you learn about tides, tidal races (a nice flat area of water off a headland at slack tide can turn pretty nasty at mid tide depending what's under the water), swells and how to read a weather chart. Basically, if the wind/tide/swell is pushing you offshore faster than you can paddle, you're in trouble. And don't underestimate the danger of cold water. As someone else said, dress for the water not the air temperature. Although if you say you've spent a fair bit of time in the sea you may well know a lot of this already. Getting a PLB and a distress flare would be a very good idea too once you are ready for solo paddles (and not a bad idea for paddling in a group).
One word of caution about self rescues. The chances are that you'll have capsized beacuse the conditions have become challenging. Assuming you manage to right the boat and get back in, you'll now be in the same challenging conditions, but until you manage to bail it, now with a boat full of water, which is a lot less stable, and more likely to capsize again. A paddle float may help to stablise you, but although I carry a paddle float, I've very little experience using one, and have been told by more experienced paddlers that they aren't much help outside of relatively clam seas. Maybe some more experienced paddlers can comment on this?
That said, it is a fantastic sport, and you're in one of the best places to do it! If you get the chance, I'd highly recommend paddling around Arasiag in good weather. Shallow, crystal clear sheltered waters with very little tidal influences. There's a local company there that does guided paddling, no idea what they are like though.
I would cautiously agree. I wouldn't class myself as highly experienced, but I'd say I know enough to understand the dangers and do go out for the occasional solo paddle, although in flat calm or slight seas and with a high confidence forecast for benign conditions. I spent a year or so doing white water (only up to grade III) many years ago where I learnt to paddle, and many of the skills come in useful in sea kayaking, especially for rock hopping. I've since done a handful of paddles around Anglesy, including the Stacks, a great trip with an interesting view point of the Gogarth cliffs. More recently a few paddles aound the Aberdeenshire coast and a fantastic solo trip in Arasiag on a flat calm, sunny day.
to buzby - As others have said, learn to be a competent paddler in the company of others. I'd also recommend trying plastic boats. As deepsoup said, a lot more robust, and if you're learning amoungst rocks there's a pretty high chance you'll be bumping off some of them.
Make sure you learn about tides, tidal races (a nice flat area of water off a headland at slack tide can turn pretty nasty at mid tide depending what's under the water), swells and how to read a weather chart. Basically, if the wind/tide/swell is pushing you offshore faster than you can paddle, you're in trouble. And don't underestimate the danger of cold water. As someone else said, dress for the water not the air temperature. Although if you say you've spent a fair bit of time in the sea you may well know a lot of this already. Getting a PLB and a distress flare would be a very good idea too once you are ready for solo paddles (and not a bad idea for paddling in a group).
One word of caution about self rescues. The chances are that you'll have capsized beacuse the conditions have become challenging. Assuming you manage to right the boat and get back in, you'll now be in the same challenging conditions, but until you manage to bail it, now with a boat full of water, which is a lot less stable, and more likely to capsize again. A paddle float may help to stablise you, but although I carry a paddle float, I've very little experience using one, and have been told by more experienced paddlers that they aren't much help outside of relatively clam seas. Maybe some more experienced paddlers can comment on this?
That said, it is a fantastic sport, and you're in one of the best places to do it! If you get the chance, I'd highly recommend paddling around Arasiag in good weather. Shallow, crystal clear sheltered waters with very little tidal influences. There's a local company there that does guided paddling, no idea what they are like though.
In reply to buzby:
A proper sea kayak allows you to carry a fair bit of kit - so if you get to a point that a bit of an expedition is a possibility it could be be the vehicle for a camping trip rather than just something to do to fill time on one. This is something I haven't done much of, but I'm quite keen to give it a go this spring/summer. Those books I linked to have some fantastic looking 2 and 3-day trips. Some are pretty serious, obviously, but not all.
Nearest I've got to it so far was a fantastic trip to Skye last summer - I spent a few days staying in the Coruisk hut on my tod. It was much easier and more pleasant (in gloriously sunny calm weather) kayaking across to the hut with gear stowed in the hatches than it would have been walking in carrying it in a pack.
> As I said above what I had in mind was a way to fill summer evenings after a day on the hills on camping trips up north and as I plan to spend a fair bit of time exploring the islands of the west coast of Scotland, something I've neglected over the years.
A proper sea kayak allows you to carry a fair bit of kit - so if you get to a point that a bit of an expedition is a possibility it could be be the vehicle for a camping trip rather than just something to do to fill time on one. This is something I haven't done much of, but I'm quite keen to give it a go this spring/summer. Those books I linked to have some fantastic looking 2 and 3-day trips. Some are pretty serious, obviously, but not all.
Nearest I've got to it so far was a fantastic trip to Skye last summer - I spent a few days staying in the Coruisk hut on my tod. It was much easier and more pleasant (in gloriously sunny calm weather) kayaking across to the hut with gear stowed in the hatches than it would have been walking in carrying it in a pack.
In reply to Dave B:
There isn't a lot of radio traffic in Scotland generally. It's cheeky, but for a non-DSC radio I'm sure you'd get away with having a good read of the RYA book regarding the radio protocols and such, and just not bothering to get a licence.
> Radio licensing £100 with training and exam.
There isn't a lot of radio traffic in Scotland generally. It's cheeky, but for a non-DSC radio I'm sure you'd get away with having a good read of the RYA book regarding the radio protocols and such, and just not bothering to get a licence.
In reply to MikeR:
Dunno about 'more experienced', but I've used mine to self-rescue in moderately exciting conditions after failing to re-enter and roll up without it. It's easy enough to use it for support once you're upright, but you do seem to need at least three hands to empty a flooded cockpit at the same time. I'm planning to fit an electric bilge-pump sometime fairly soonish, though there is a slight danger it'll just give me the confidence to get myself into trouble!
> A paddle float may help to stablise you, but although I carry a paddle float, I've very little experience using one, and have been told by more experienced paddlers that they aren't much help outside of relatively clam seas. Maybe some more experienced paddlers can comment on this?
Dunno about 'more experienced', but I've used mine to self-rescue in moderately exciting conditions after failing to re-enter and roll up without it. It's easy enough to use it for support once you're upright, but you do seem to need at least three hands to empty a flooded cockpit at the same time. I'm planning to fit an electric bilge-pump sometime fairly soonish, though there is a slight danger it'll just give me the confidence to get myself into trouble!
In reply to deepsoup:
That's a trip I really want to do, ideally combining it with an ascent of Sgurr Dubh Beag via the Dubh Slabs. Do you think it would be easy enough to porter the kayak onto Loch Coruisk to camp furth up the loch? What's the deal with staying at the Coruisk hut, do you have to book in advance?
I really should get some more practice in with my paddle float!
> - I spent a few days staying in the Coruisk hut on my tod. It was much easier and more pleasant (in gloriously sunny calm weather) kayaking across to the hut with gear stowed in the hatches than it would have been walking in carrying it in a pack.
That's a trip I really want to do, ideally combining it with an ascent of Sgurr Dubh Beag via the Dubh Slabs. Do you think it would be easy enough to porter the kayak onto Loch Coruisk to camp furth up the loch? What's the deal with staying at the Coruisk hut, do you have to book in advance?
I really should get some more practice in with my paddle float!
In reply to MikeR:
That's exactly what I did. Then carried on around the ridge to Gars Bheinn and dropped back down to the hut from there. Back on the water, the circumnavigation of Soay is a really nice trip. The natural harbour is absolutely beautiful and there are some really interesting little cliffs of wind eroded sandstone with strange basalt intrusions on the Southern side of the island.
It would definitely be doable to carry the kayak up to Loch Coruisk, it's only a couple of 100m. I'm not sure, but it might be easier to carry it up from the head of Loch nan Leachd (where there's a nice little sandy beach at low tide) than landing by the hut.
The hut belongs to the Glasgow branch of the JMCS (Junior Mountaineering Club of Scotland). Besides using it themselves they mostly book it out to (members of) other clubs, but you can also book it as an individual BMC or MCoS member. They do need a bit of notice as they send keys out to you by post.
https://www.glasgowjmcs.org.uk/coruisk.php
The hut has its own page on facebook too - worth a look if you're on there, there are some nice photos.
> That's a trip I really want to do, ideally combining it with an ascent of Sgurr Dubh Beag via the Dubh Slabs.
That's exactly what I did. Then carried on around the ridge to Gars Bheinn and dropped back down to the hut from there. Back on the water, the circumnavigation of Soay is a really nice trip. The natural harbour is absolutely beautiful and there are some really interesting little cliffs of wind eroded sandstone with strange basalt intrusions on the Southern side of the island.
It would definitely be doable to carry the kayak up to Loch Coruisk, it's only a couple of 100m. I'm not sure, but it might be easier to carry it up from the head of Loch nan Leachd (where there's a nice little sandy beach at low tide) than landing by the hut.
The hut belongs to the Glasgow branch of the JMCS (Junior Mountaineering Club of Scotland). Besides using it themselves they mostly book it out to (members of) other clubs, but you can also book it as an individual BMC or MCoS member. They do need a bit of notice as they send keys out to you by post.
https://www.glasgowjmcs.org.uk/coruisk.php
The hut has its own page on facebook too - worth a look if you're on there, there are some nice photos.
1
In reply to deepsoup:
Soay is amazing! If a somewhat depressing history. Weird tides if I remember?
Cheers
Mark
Soay is amazing! If a somewhat depressing history. Weird tides if I remember?
Cheers
Mark
In reply to deepsoup:
Thanks a lot, that's really useful info. Hopefully I'll get the chance to do it this summer.
Cheers.
Thanks a lot, that's really useful info. Hopefully I'll get the chance to do it this summer.
Cheers.
In reply to buzby:
99% of my sea kayaking is solo for much of the reasons you mention.
Easy to say but quite often difficult to judge, is deciding to stay within your 'competence' level.
So for me when starting out a paddle along the coast within swimming distance (if I had to), of the shore was fine. At the other extreme perhaps, once I could easily roll and handle myself in big seas (I also did kayak surfing), trips further afield, such as the many uninhabited off shore islands of SW Cork, Eire, were perfectly safe for me. These I undertook in fair weather, with no/little risk of storm, capsize was extremely unlikely and separation from the kayak was even more unlikely - and I carried flares.
The key skill is to be able to roll, both sides with confidence that you'll be able to do it everytime and know that the sea conditions you are going to paddle are easily within your ability - so a capsize is extremely unlikely anyway!! I taught myself to roll in our local swimming pool - I doubt they'd allow canoes in now in the dinner hour!. So i'd find someone/where you can learn eskimo rolls. Surfing too on a safe beach in a kayak is an excellent way of gaining confidence and competence in rough water and a failed attempt to roll simply results in a swim to the shore, empty out and back in again.
99% of my sea kayaking is solo for much of the reasons you mention.
Easy to say but quite often difficult to judge, is deciding to stay within your 'competence' level.
So for me when starting out a paddle along the coast within swimming distance (if I had to), of the shore was fine. At the other extreme perhaps, once I could easily roll and handle myself in big seas (I also did kayak surfing), trips further afield, such as the many uninhabited off shore islands of SW Cork, Eire, were perfectly safe for me. These I undertook in fair weather, with no/little risk of storm, capsize was extremely unlikely and separation from the kayak was even more unlikely - and I carried flares.
The key skill is to be able to roll, both sides with confidence that you'll be able to do it everytime and know that the sea conditions you are going to paddle are easily within your ability - so a capsize is extremely unlikely anyway!! I taught myself to roll in our local swimming pool - I doubt they'd allow canoes in now in the dinner hour!. So i'd find someone/where you can learn eskimo rolls. Surfing too on a safe beach in a kayak is an excellent way of gaining confidence and competence in rough water and a failed attempt to roll simply results in a swim to the shore, empty out and back in again.
In reply to JMarkW:
A bit odd, yes. There's a constant flow from east - west in the sound between Soay and Skye regardless of the state of the tide. According to a post I read on UKRGB it very occasionally changes direction for a few hours seemingly at random.
People usually go anti-clockwise around Soay to take advantage of that, but none of the tidal currents around there are very strong so it isn't really a problem if you end up paddling 'upstream'.
> Weird tides if I remember?
A bit odd, yes. There's a constant flow from east - west in the sound between Soay and Skye regardless of the state of the tide. According to a post I read on UKRGB it very occasionally changes direction for a few hours seemingly at random.
People usually go anti-clockwise around Soay to take advantage of that, but none of the tidal currents around there are very strong so it isn't really a problem if you end up paddling 'upstream'.
In reply to buzby:
Someone above mentioned a sit on kayak, having looked into them I wonder if that would fit the bill of what I am looking to get out of it better. Looks a safer option as from what I can see they are harder to capsize and easier to get back on. for a play about in calm water near to the coast it would perhaps be a better option for me. obviously still need to get some tuition but perhaps not to the extent of a full sea going kayak.
looked at this one "Wilderness Systems Tarpon 140" and seems to get good reviews.
I guess it will have much more limitations regarding speed and distance but might be an option for learning the ropes and having some summer fun at the end of a days walking if camped near the beach.
thoughts ?
Someone above mentioned a sit on kayak, having looked into them I wonder if that would fit the bill of what I am looking to get out of it better. Looks a safer option as from what I can see they are harder to capsize and easier to get back on. for a play about in calm water near to the coast it would perhaps be a better option for me. obviously still need to get some tuition but perhaps not to the extent of a full sea going kayak.
looked at this one "Wilderness Systems Tarpon 140" and seems to get good reviews.
I guess it will have much more limitations regarding speed and distance but might be an option for learning the ropes and having some summer fun at the end of a days walking if camped near the beach.
thoughts ?
In reply to buzby:
That makes a lot of sense to me, it does sound like a sit-on-top could be a good choice for you. I don't know much about them, so can't comment on the specific one you've been looking at.
That makes a lot of sense to me, it does sound like a sit-on-top could be a good choice for you. I don't know much about them, so can't comment on the specific one you've been looking at.
In reply to buzby:
A wider kayak, such as that sit on top, will be harder to capsize in calm water. If you were going out on the rough stuff it would capsize more readily than a skinny kayak piloted by an expert, because the expert can balance the skinny boat with their knees and hips (read up on primary vs secondary stability) whereas the wide boat will be at the mercy of the water. So stay away from the rough stuff with that boat.
Practice reboarding until it is second nature even when cold and tired and wearing all your gear. We heard a mayday on the south coast from a pair of kayak anglers on sit on tops - one had capsized and couldn't reboard with his dad's assistance from the other boat, and was getting exhausted after 20 minutes trying.
I have done some pootling around our local estuary solo, knowing that if I go in and my rather iffy roll/self rescue fails I could swim for the shore and then reel the boat in on a towline. It rules out grand voyages, but the shore tends to be the most interesting thing to look at anyway.
A wider kayak, such as that sit on top, will be harder to capsize in calm water. If you were going out on the rough stuff it would capsize more readily than a skinny kayak piloted by an expert, because the expert can balance the skinny boat with their knees and hips (read up on primary vs secondary stability) whereas the wide boat will be at the mercy of the water. So stay away from the rough stuff with that boat.
Practice reboarding until it is second nature even when cold and tired and wearing all your gear. We heard a mayday on the south coast from a pair of kayak anglers on sit on tops - one had capsized and couldn't reboard with his dad's assistance from the other boat, and was getting exhausted after 20 minutes trying.
I have done some pootling around our local estuary solo, knowing that if I go in and my rather iffy roll/self rescue fails I could swim for the shore and then reel the boat in on a towline. It rules out grand voyages, but the shore tends to be the most interesting thing to look at anyway.
In reply to Gone:
I've seen lifeboat launches to the same situation. Casualty unable to regain craft after falling off. Can be very hard to remount.
My ski is easy to get on, but easy to fall off again straight away while you are regaining paddle and headway.
Not sure how ready they are to right as well. Comments from others?
I've seen lifeboat launches to the same situation. Casualty unable to regain craft after falling off. Can be very hard to remount.
My ski is easy to get on, but easy to fall off again straight away while you are regaining paddle and headway.
Not sure how ready they are to right as well. Comments from others?
In reply to buzby:
Your diving experiences stand you in good stead - you need to use the same 'self reliance' mindset you were using on your solo dives. The difference is that when you were diving you were well-prepared to be in the water should anything go wrong - end up in the water kayaking and life is much harder.
I don't kayak, but I have friends that do both sea kayaking and sit-on-top angling in challenging waters here. My recommendation if you go down the SOT route is to tether everything together. After my mate catapulted himself from his SOT when cutting free his snagged anchor we did the maths - it will be virtually impossible to get back to a SOT in a 'wind against tide' situation if you fall off. SOT's sit much higher than normal kayaks and thus go with the wind faster than a man can swim. Tethering yourself to your boat makes you a much bigger target for SAR if you can't get back onboard. The only potential circumstance where you wouldn't want to be tethered is surfing and your boat can hit you?
As others have said, the chances are that when something does go wrong you will be in a lot of tide / swell / waves where self-rescue is very difficult. In general, the sea will normally win any sort of fight you pick with it.
Your diving experiences stand you in good stead - you need to use the same 'self reliance' mindset you were using on your solo dives. The difference is that when you were diving you were well-prepared to be in the water should anything go wrong - end up in the water kayaking and life is much harder.
I don't kayak, but I have friends that do both sea kayaking and sit-on-top angling in challenging waters here. My recommendation if you go down the SOT route is to tether everything together. After my mate catapulted himself from his SOT when cutting free his snagged anchor we did the maths - it will be virtually impossible to get back to a SOT in a 'wind against tide' situation if you fall off. SOT's sit much higher than normal kayaks and thus go with the wind faster than a man can swim. Tethering yourself to your boat makes you a much bigger target for SAR if you can't get back onboard. The only potential circumstance where you wouldn't want to be tethered is surfing and your boat can hit you?
As others have said, the chances are that when something does go wrong you will be in a lot of tide / swell / waves where self-rescue is very difficult. In general, the sea will normally win any sort of fight you pick with it.
Post edited at 15:27
In reply to buzby:
Not read all replies, but for a comparison that will hopefully make sense:
For context, I'm now an experienced, but probably low skilled sea kayaker - I've completed a 3 month sea kayaking expedition around a lot of the UK, including a crossing of the irish sea from Mull of Kintyre. I'm a comparably experienced, but slightly less skillful climber, can lead HVS with a strong wind behind me, I've a comparable 'technical' knowledge of both sports.
I can justify sea kayaking on my own, but no longer climbing (although I will go scrambling/ scrambly hill running on my own). The difference for me is in the comparison of the getting out of trouble process.
Invariably, in the sea, if something goes wrong, you have a lot of time to solve the problem - deal with issues, and if you're determined enough with reasonable fitness get back to land. Obviously there are skills you need to reduce the risk - the best and most reliable one in my experience is knowing how not to fall in and being really stubborn if something goes wrong. I'd advise caution against the whole 'only going out when conditions are X' thing - the sea is unpredictable by anyone - great example, I was crossing from Little Ross to Isle of Whithorn with a predicted 3-4 wind. Crackle over the radio came informing of a sudden change in pressure over the Irish sea - 7 hours later, arrived into the shelter of the harbour at Isle of Whithorn in a force 9 gale that I'd been fighting since within about 10 minutes of getting that warning - we were then stuck there for 3 days waiting for the surprise storm to calm down again.
In climbing however, I've not got a stubbornness/time based get out plan - seems to be obvious its going wrong mainly in hindsight, that's what calls it for me.
If you're learning solo a sit on top would be a better call, plastic sea kayak more likely to not break in an awkward landing
Not read all replies, but for a comparison that will hopefully make sense:
For context, I'm now an experienced, but probably low skilled sea kayaker - I've completed a 3 month sea kayaking expedition around a lot of the UK, including a crossing of the irish sea from Mull of Kintyre. I'm a comparably experienced, but slightly less skillful climber, can lead HVS with a strong wind behind me, I've a comparable 'technical' knowledge of both sports.
I can justify sea kayaking on my own, but no longer climbing (although I will go scrambling/ scrambly hill running on my own). The difference for me is in the comparison of the getting out of trouble process.
Invariably, in the sea, if something goes wrong, you have a lot of time to solve the problem - deal with issues, and if you're determined enough with reasonable fitness get back to land. Obviously there are skills you need to reduce the risk - the best and most reliable one in my experience is knowing how not to fall in and being really stubborn if something goes wrong. I'd advise caution against the whole 'only going out when conditions are X' thing - the sea is unpredictable by anyone - great example, I was crossing from Little Ross to Isle of Whithorn with a predicted 3-4 wind. Crackle over the radio came informing of a sudden change in pressure over the Irish sea - 7 hours later, arrived into the shelter of the harbour at Isle of Whithorn in a force 9 gale that I'd been fighting since within about 10 minutes of getting that warning - we were then stuck there for 3 days waiting for the surprise storm to calm down again.
In climbing however, I've not got a stubbornness/time based get out plan - seems to be obvious its going wrong mainly in hindsight, that's what calls it for me.
If you're learning solo a sit on top would be a better call, plastic sea kayak more likely to not break in an awkward landing
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