UKC

Hi everyone,

I was thinking of visiting the Lake District this summer, when weather and restrictions allow it and I'd like to do some sport climbing. My partner is a beginner and climbs 4-5, whereas I'm more in the 6b-6c range. What would be the best crag for both of us to enjoy some nice bolted routes in this beautiful area? We'd probably have just 1 or 2 days.

Thank you!

In reply to Ale152:

Options for low grade sport routes are generally limited to grotty old quarries. If you want to avoid those then St. Bees head probably gives the most options for the both of you in a nice setting. I haven't climbed there for quite a few years though so I don't know what state the gear is in, I'm sure someone else can advise.

If you really want scenic routes then I'm afraid trad is the best bet if that's an option for you.

In reply to Ale152:

At the risk of being shot down, I would say Bram Crag Quarry. The immediate locality below the quarry is used as a timber yard but the views out to Skiddaw and Blencathra are excellent.

In reply to Ale152:

Bram Crag Quarry
or
St. Bees Head

Bramcrag probably easier routes, in a old quarry but nice views to Skiddaw & Blencathra

St Bees is by the sea and great on a sunny afternoon, but some routes can be a bit sandy and have run out bolts

In reply to Ale152:

None, hopefully. But then you're a troll, anyway, so whatever.

jcm

In reply to Ale152:

A trip to Humphrey Head in the South Lake's would provide a few very good routes in a lovely setting.  Bram Crag has a lot of routes and a good Outlook if you don't look down! Coudy Rock at Appleby is also fun and in a nice setting. 

In reply to Ale152:

You are probably better served by the Yorkshire Dales than the Lake District.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I'm sorry? Why?

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

What a bizarre post. 

In reply to Ale152:

It would be worth picking up a copy of the new sport and slate guide. Runestone Quarry has good views as does Scout Scar from the escarpment back across to the central fells. Bram Crag worth a visit as well.

Don't forget to consider supporting the Cumbria Bolt Fund who have put in a lot of work recently to re-equip a lot of routes.

In reply to Ale152:

Thank you all for the great advice!

In reply to Ale152:

John is trying to maintain his image within the UKC community as a grumpy old traditionalist - when it comes to climbing at least. Probably best to ignore him.

I suppose his point - deep down below the snark - is probably that the Lake District is really the birth place of rock climbing, definitely within the UK, so basically it is a very traditional place where the vast majority of the climbs are trad climbs. I enjoy sport climbing but I've never been to the Lakes to go sport climbing. I've gone many times over decades to climb the classic trad routes, particularly up on the higher hills.

So the sport climbing that is there is mainly in places where for over a hundred years, people didn't want to go climbing. If you've never done any trad climbing, you could do a day of sport climbing then maybe go for a day hill walking or one of the easier scrambles (where you don't need a rope but where it still feels a bit more like climbing) then you'll get to see the best of the area.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Swing and a miss...

In reply to TobyA: I have to say that my first reaction was “this sounds like a troll”. Maybe people just get more cynical with age?

It’s like asking for trad route suggestions at Horseshoe Quarry.

However, Bram crag is worth a visit and has a nice outlook.

In reply to TobyA:

But his point (which you summarise well in your second para) is a good and valid one.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Nah

In reply to Martin Haworth:

It is if you live in Keswick or penrith. Wasn't worth the drive from Kendal. 

In reply to Ale152:

The best sport climbing in the Lakes is arguably Chapel Head Scar, but it will be bird banned for some time and there's not a lot below 7a. I think if you're coming from Bristol and want to sport climb, you'd do better to go elsewhere, e.g. Yorkshire, Wales or... South Coast!

This may be interesting: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/low_to_mid_grade_british_sport...

The Lake District is a great place to learn to trad climb/improve your trad climbing. If that interests you, but you're lacking some of the skills, it wouldn't be that expensive to hire a guide to do 1-to-2 stuff with you and your partner for a day or two, focused on developing trad skills. Probably about £100 - £160 per day, off my head. Plenty of atmospheric places to explore once you know what you're doing.

In reply to Martin Haworth:

I keep meaning to do the HVS just left of the Toilet sector - I've been told it's good!

In reply to TobyA: The E1, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? (E1 5b) is worth doing, as is the E1 on the upper tier White Dove (E1 5b).

I think Jon Stewart would enjoy them, its one if his favourite venues.

In reply to TobyA:

The HVS is the best route I’ve done at Horseshoe. Soft touch too.

In reply to TobyA:

Mention of the "Toilet sector" reminded me of someone asking about sport climbing in the Lakes years ago (I think it was on here but I might be mistaken).

One of the replies described it as "like visiting the Louvre but spending the entire trip in the toilets"

In reply to Ale152: I find the general trashing of bram crag quarry very amusing . As  bob says the outlook from the upper tier is tremendous , it catches the evening sun and I ve had some great evenings working along follow the sun as it sets . as for the routes ? Some are rubbish , some are ok , many are good and some are excellent . So find me a crag where that’s not the picture ? The rock quality ? Some is rubbish , some is ok etc etc .......    The  rock itself is a bit weird and does take some getting used to . But so did Northumberland when I moved there from the peak and the first time I climbed at Gogarth i remover thinking it was more like playing very high stakes Jenga than proper climbing . Bram  It is a bit loose in places and requires a cautious approach but adding no more than lower Falcon 

In reply to Ale152:

Bram Crag has a nice outlook, but not worth driving to the Lakes for. Looking at your profile you appear to be Italian so may also want to see the Lakes as a tourist, and Bram Crag is not far from Grasmere and other honeypot sites which you may wish to see, but for climbing Yorkshire Dales can be enroute, has some quintessential scenery, and a lot of good sport climbing.

Personally I would be off to the Dolomites.

Ciao Steve

In reply to Ale152:

Scout Scar over Bram for me.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I agree too. The Lakes should be SCF (Sport Climbing Free) - as one poster indicated, there's more than enough to go at over in Yorkshire. The Lakes should be the place where us punters can go for real climbing...

In reply to Greenbanks:

Can't see how some sport routes at a couple of scruffy little crags and quarries would spoil anyone's enjoyment of the hundreds and hundreds of pristine trad routes in the region.

I don't climb trad at all but had a lovely weekend up there, did some walks, took in the scenery and did one day of bolt clipping at Bram Crag.  How on earth that prevents "punters from going real climbing" I've no idea.

In reply to Greenbanks:

I went climbing at Bram Crag Quarry back in the pre bolt days, not to be repeated.

It is far from my favourite venue but it being bolted only distracts from the appeal of the lakes if you let it.

Amusingly those who prefer bolt protected climbing often state safety as a reason for their preference. One look at the pile of shite above BCQ should educate them otherwise. 

In reply to Iamgregp:

These grim actions on the grubbier parts of the Immaculate Canvas are an insult to Haskett-Smith, Jones, Kelly, the Abraham Brothers, Botterill, Dolphin, Birkett and the like...

The mere thought of them casts the dark shadow of gloom on my Lakeland puntering...

In reply to Greenbanks:

Funnily enough this conversation has made me have a leaf through Lake District Rock.

I think if I lived wuithing striking distance of The Lakes I'd just have to get in to trad, there are so many routes with so much history.  Absolutely superb looking they are!

In reply to mike123:

Have you thought about a career in sales and marketing?

Tired of clipping bolts in piles of tottering choss in dreary holes in the ground in Derbyshire? Then come on down to Bram Crag Quarry! You can see out of this hole on one side across the beautiful valley of St. John's in the Vale, and even spot some decent climbing just down the road at Castle Rock. Worried about blocks falling on your head? Don't be, it's not too much shitter than Lower Falcon, but don't worry, you'll never know how shit that is because you don't have a rack! Come and park up on the packed verge of the narrow, winding road - wind in those wing mirrors and mind the ditch! Don't worry about the gate, someone else will already have blocked that before you arrive.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

And the charming sign that greets you on entry:

"No smiling, no laughing, no fun." By order of the Mayor of Thirlmere.

😁

In reply to Presley Whippet:

"No groups of ANY kind"

Me and my mate had to split up and solo the the lot...

In reply to Iamgregp:

Is that singing mat Johnson songs on your own ? 

youtube.com/watch?v=7ZYgKCbFbWY&

In reply to Jon Stewart:

To be honest Jon ( honest Jon ...ha ha ) you are right , I should stop it . But I find this relentless down grading of bram on here tiresome . The fact that you and whipping boy don’t like it doesn’t mean it s crap. The fact that it  is sport climbing in the lakes ( god forbid ) doesn’t make it crap . The fact that there a bit of loose rock here ( hmm perhaps an understatement )  and there  Doesn’t make it crap, the fact that there a few rusty tractors and some other  hideously dangerous farm machinery , underneath  doesn’t make it crap .  I’ve climbed at some of the most beautiful places in the world and hope ( enshallah ) to  climb at a few more . It’s maybe not one of them , but it’s not crap . 
edit: and the fact that the owner despite realising that at some point somebody is going to come a proper cropper but yet still allows climbing doesn’t make it crap

In reply to Iamgregp:

Yes - that’s right. As with Scotland, it’s a long way to travel from down south. But well worth going the extra miles in both cases. As has often been said on here, don’t spread the word too far...the solitude is part of the charm of these places

In reply to mike123:

I have to disagree with you on that one Mike. It is crap and has been detrimental to climbing in the lakes.

The quarry is inherently dangerous, an accident waiting to happen. Megatonnes of Rock ready to fall. I have heard the same bull spouted about BCQ as was about Castle Rock. "it will only fall in a storm" Really? The quarrymen really did do an excellent job there in that they took every last scrap of good rock away.

This is all OK for those who were the core users of the quarry, the over 50s who should know better. But as a low grade sport venue, it attracts in those novices who do not know any better, lured in by the "safety" of the bolts.

The impact the quarry has had on what we're once our evening crags is noticeable, vegetation creeps back and over grows as the crags are neglected in preference of convenience. The impact on local climbing culture is not insignificant either, the cafe started closing early due to lack of custom.

It is crap and detrimental.

As you know, I am a born again sport climber and still feel this way. The most popular crag in the lakes is a pile. On one hand it saddens me that this is the case, on the other, the good crags are quieter.

See you down there soon for a few routes😁

In reply to Ale152:

Do you have any trad gear with which you could make a belay for top roping. If not I’m sure there must be places where it is possible to belay off trees but I’m struggling to think of any. Can any one else? Castle Rock South maybe?

In reply to Ale152:

The thing about the Lakes is  (at easier grades) you can have a one star experience doing a three star sport route or a multi-star experience doing any of the decent trad routes.

Aesthetically, St Bees is the most scenic sport Crag, but sea cliffs so not typically Lakes. And on occasion sportingly bolted.

Bramcrag is a hole with decent views, fairly interesting  climbing (bolts! Not limestone!), substantial rockfall risk and limited parking. 

Really, going any distance to the Lakes for sport climbing is a bit like going to Florida for the igloo-building.

In reply to Greenbanks:

They would all be having the occasional visit to Bramcrag if they were still alive and local , much as some top trad climbers do currently. You can enjoy both. 

In reply to Greenbanks:

FIFY

In reply to Greenbanks:

It all went downhill after tweed went out of fashion if you ask me. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Maybe some of the previously popular evening crags that are now neglected should be bolted. Some of the Borrowdale crags would be ideal. Lower Falcon Crag is a great example: its not very popular, gear can be tricky to find, easy access, and you would have some fantastic 50m low and mid grade sport routes, or 2 pitch sport routes.

Upper Falcon Crag would be good as well if it was bolted, and Shepherds Crag with bolts would be probably the most popular crag in the country, with some lovely low grade sport routes. I can see it now,

Rollerskates and Boxing Gloves, 4+, FA: G. Gibson

In reply to Martin Haworth:

What would be really interesting to see is the crags dropped from the latest Borrowdale guide bolted. They clearly are of no value, so do not require preserving in their original state.

You can see where I am going here, dropped crags become popular, so re included in the guide. Other crags dropped, bolted and so on. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

What a great idea. Bolt up walla crag, gowder crag and cat ghyll bluffs for a year. Get all the routes cleaned up nicely from multiple ascents and then take the bolts out to give pristine trad routes. I think you're onto something there.

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Does it not just say that the climbing masses no longer want trad climbing? Because you're right, you could take any old crap, overgrown trad crag which has gone out of favour in the lakes and grid bolt it and I guarantee, provided the walk-in isn't insane it'll become the next most popular venue in the lakes.  

In reply to Dave Ferguson:

But where would you go if all the crags were clean? 

In reply to Lord_ash2000:

Indeed.

It is not the bolting that I have a problem with, it is the behaviours displayed. At the end of the day, if the masses choose bolted manky quarries over quality climbing, so be it, the good stuff is quieter for me.

On balance, I doubt I would lose any sleep if the bolting fairies equipped the east buttress overnight, it would open up all those routes I am too scared to try. 

In reply to Presley Whippet:

Isn’t being scared the whole point of the East Buttress?

In reply to S Andrew:

Over fifty years ago as a wide eyed teenager, I was told that the east buttress was good rock.

If you wanted to get scared you went to Cloggy, Gogarth, Dove or Slime Wall.