UKC

I'm not understanding the opprobrium towards Smith. I think he should've knocked out Chris Rock.

Opprobrium?  Hardly!

If some random guy in a Wetherspoons insults my missus, and I go slap the guy, I'm gonna get thrown out of the pub.

Will Smith gets up on stage and slaps the Oscars host during the ceremony, broadcast live around the world and he is allowed to sit back down again and get given an award like nothing happened?

And he's the one being treated harshly?

If you really need to hit someone, you hit them, never bitch slap. Otherwise just respond verbally, Smith being offended on her behalf is lame, she should have gone up there and slapped, that would have put gobby wannabee comics back in their box. 

That's your problem then.  Think about it a little harder.

T.

That’s ok, I’m not understanding your use of an apostrophe in the title. 🤷‍♂️

I agree. We definitely need more violence in response to words in this world. Whether it's Chris Rock up there making jokes, or a female comedian even, they should have gotten knocked TF out. In fact it would probably have been better if it was a female comedian, then Smith would have been doing his bit for gender equality, showing it's not just 'male privilege' that affords you the opportunity to get smacked in the face. 

The whole thing was clearly staged by JK Rowling.

More seriously, he seems to be going through a lot of mental anguish, no doubt relating to the fact that he's been cuckolded in front of the world and has had to suck it up, put a brave face on it and try to move on.

I only mention the female thing to point out that generally as a society we seem to accept and be pretty sanguine about the fact that men live with an underlying threat of violence in response to 'talking sh1t' that women don't. Note, that's not that women don't necessarily live with the threat of violence for talking sh1t, but that society tends to frown upon the violence in those cases. 

Caught the clip earlier.  It's odd how he initially laughs at the joke, and then (off camera) presumably catches the look on her face and decided to erm, make a statement.

An awful display of aggression and violence.  I'd like to think it was a bit of a play for the camera in an Andy Kaufman / Jerry Lawler vein...but I don't think it is

Looks to me like the whole thing was rehearsed and staged. I mean, who slaps another man? Viewing figures down, a good way to boost next year’s figures? No harm done.

The usual suspects are online claiming it was staged. A conclusion that survives about 5 seconds of rational thought by just considering what could possibly have been the incentive for either of them.

No.  

Yup, Rock and Smith both come out of it looking like tw*ts.

I haven't seen the clip or heard the joke that "caused" it but I've seen a few memes and I never had any doubt in my mind that it's 100% staged... surely it is?

Like a few years ago when Janet Jackson had a wardrobe malfunction at the Super bowl or whatever it was. It's just a reason to make headlines in the Sun etc. (and other international equivalents).

Surely...?

They are both performers and they both profit from their prominence in the public eye. They both got a lot of news coverage this morning that they would not have got without their "falling out".

Personally, I cant stand these daft awards ceremonies. Hell, I've been expected to attend soooooo many work ones that I cant think of anything worse than watch them on TV, about celebrities.

Nevertheless, notwithstanding that seeing the awful Chris Rock getting smacked in the chops is a wonderful thing, I think WSmith screwed up, should have embarrassed Rock in some other way or allowed him and his wife a proper platform to discuss the condition. Did Rock actually know of the condition? I didn't (unsurprisingly as I dont follow this stuff), but if he didn't and was simply making a joke about her shaved noggin then this makes WSmith's actions much, much worse.

His angry rant afterwards removed, in my eyes at least, any doubt that this was a cynical stunt to try and revitalise the crappy awards. In his defence, I guess, it sounds like they have a very troubled relationship and maybe it was the last straw - we have all lost our tempers, right?

As always, I ask Mrs DB what she would have done in that situation had I kicked off in public that way. She said she would have mortally embarrassed, disowned me and taken weeks to forgive me, if ever. She hates it if I gesticulate in the car is someone cuts me up.

I disagree, it looks like a "stage punch" to me, which both of them being stage and film actors will be highly trained and practiced performing.

1) if this was an open hand that made contact, why does the audio sound like the boom/thump of someone striking a lapel mic (Chris Rock's) and there is no slapping sound at any point

2) Why does Chris lean forward and turn face to receive it just before it is delivered, no flinching or moving head back when he say it come towards him

3) why is he apparently not stunned or injured by such an impressively loud and booming sounding "slap". I know people can survive blows like that especially when full of adrenaline, but it seems to have zero effect not even for half a second.

I have no idea if it was scripted or ad-lib, but having watched people mucking about like this (stage punches, I used to know some thespians, darling!) and having heard as well as seen the footage, I'd say it quite probably wasn't a real hit and that you could reasonably entertain rational thought on that topic.

I am absolutely not some "everything is fake" person, but in this specific case I am making an exception

Clearly, Will Smith is bad at fights. 

Will Smith and his wife are pathetic. She tells the world what a healing process it is to have an 'entanglement' behind her husbands back. 

Will Smith smacked someone because they made a joke about his wifes hair. 

If they werent rich and famous they would have been on the jeremy kyle show 

Supporting Will Smith in this instance sets a dangerous president. Are we wanting comedians to be in fear of physical assault for doing their job? It's bad enough that comedians live in fear of getting totally cancelled for overstepping lines but they should never fear physical violence (apart from Jim Davidson). 

Absolutely - making a joke at the expense of a medical condition is definitely not on. That's punching down and is unacceptable. On par with Gervais using the word 'mong' for cheap laughs. But that's not how you deal with it. He could have said "that's not on" there and then, he could have written about it, he could have interviewed about it. He isn't a downtrodden and marginalised human, he has a massive platform where he could make it clear why that was not acceptable and I'm sure Rock would have apologised. Instead he chose to reinforce a stereotype that men, dare I say it black men, are inherently violent. 

It's also worth noting that Rock put his hands behind his back, which is an indication of not wanting a physical confrontation, and Smith still chose to sucker-punch (well, slap) him. 

If it was staged then it was dumb but I really can't see it being so. I think Will Smith probably needs some help and he certainly needs to apologise to not only Chris Rock but everyone for his actions. 

Supporting Will Smith in this instance sets a dangerous president.

Surely Joe Biden’s got enough problems already…🤷‍♂️

Indeed, it was not a malicious or mean joke, she’s (the wife) very beautiful and I thought how would this have sat if I had made this joke to my friend who has cancer and is about to loose her hair again?  It would have raised a smile.  Had I been in his situation and it proved hurtful I would have put my arm round them and given them a hug and that would have sent a fairly gentle but strong message.  I would not have jumped up on stage and hit someone in the face.

To the poster…good troll 😮

Cheers

Toby

Joke: not funny, and probably shouldn't have been told, but at the same time it wasn't the most insulting thing I've ever heard. Just doesn't seem that bad being compared to another good looking millionaire actress in a film due to your hairstyle, which at least in public she seems to be quite confident about, even if it is now her only natural-hair option. Not like Chris Rock said Jada looked like shrek or something. 

Will Smith: disappointed in him, I thought he was a chill guy, but this has really changed my opinion.  Violence is just the wrong answer in situations like this. If he felt like the joke was so insensitive that he had to do something, there were SO MANY other non-violent options. It wasn't even an immediate response, he had to walk all the way up on stage, and then he was still raging when he sat back down - totally lost control. And then he excluded Chris from his apologies when he accepted his award (can't quite believe that was allowed). Really makes me question his personality, and whether he's having some kind of breakdown considering all the stuff about his son not looking up to him, and his wife shagging his son's friend.  In any case, appalling behaviour in front of millions (makes you wonder what he's like behind closed doors), and sets a terrible example for more impressionable people that will see / hear about this. 

Can't believe behaviour like that is being defended by some people. 

I believe Smith's reaction was genuine and not staged. His twice announced warning to "Keep my wife's name out of your f*cking mouth !" seemed very genuine.

On the other hand,his pathetic half arsed attempt at a justification in his acceptance speech where he listed all the people he had been charged with "defending" was a complete waste of time and  breath.

Oh FFS.  I have cancer and I love the jokes it brings.  An enormously powerful couple can take a joke about hair.  Far too self-absorbed and narcissistic.

But that's irrelevant really - hitting someone for saying something you don't like?  No.

Will Smith was favourite for, and won, the Academy Award for Best Actor.

I mean, just consider for a moment how that conversation might have gone.

Hey Will, we want to drum up some viewing figures by having Chris make a shit joke about your wife then you go up on stage and slap him.

Slap him?

Yes. Not a punch, a slap.

What's in it for me, Academy Award nominee and favourite for the Oscar for Best Actor, Will Smith?

Er...

If it was genuine, I don't think you should under estimate the effects of a good hard open handed slap by a big guy with a lot of upper body strength. Smith seems to have beefed up a bit since his fresh Prince days. 

So Rock and Smith are simultaneously highly trained actors and well practiced at stage fighting - and also a bit shit at it?

It’s weird that we (and I’m as guilty as anyone) give this so much attention. It’s just two rich tw*ts being tw*ts. One thing I do wonder is where people who are seething with self-righteous outrage either on behalf of one or the other have to go about genuinely significant issues like what’s going on in Ukraine. 

Who in their right mind insults someone in public like that, especially for something that could so obviously be a medical issue, for a cheap laugh?

I'm not surprised he got a slap.

Don't be so cynical; this shit matters!

... I'll barely sleep tonight as I fret about who's going to play Will in the movie of the event.

The only comedy night I have ever been to featured a 'comedian' whose whole act seemed to consist of insulting audience members. Not funny at all. I rapidly got annoyed with this and started heckling, although more like throwing his insults back at him, and guess what, he couldn't take it and stormed off. 

John 

Would I even have noticed that he had won an Oscar?

One rather pathetic slap and I have heard far too much about him today.

I noticed that too. Maybe Mrs Smith said whatever the American version of; “Are you going to let him say that to me? Go belt him” is.

Good comment IMO

Slapping was wrong, though I understand why it happened

If that had been Mrs Profitofdoom who had been insulted, she would've had a go verbally at Chris Rock. And she would've been glad if I'd backed her up (verbally)

I'd say they're both very good at it, it is stylised and not an attempt to be as realistic as possible which is why it's easy to spot, it come from theatre, in the theatre variant the aggressor can (depending on audience angle) slap their chest to simulate the noise, in film that can be added post production so isn't done

I'm really disappointed in Will Smith. From interviews I've seen he always seemed like a really nice guy, and now here is showing the world that the answer to an insult is to use violence. It doesn't matter if it was genuine or staged, it's a terrible example to set and I thought he was better than that.

live auction stream showing the price of Prince of Bel Air and Chris Rock stand up dvds, the prices are insane!

youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ&

"He sez your a slag"

"Leave it Wil he's not worf it" 

And hi spilt yer pint. E'er, Biffa.....

I totally agree. Appearance jokes are unacceptable. I mean, sure, he shouldn't have hit the guy, violence solves nothing, yadda yadda, but when you're boiling with rage at something like that, it's understandable. Rock's behaviour on the other hand was a category error, just one of those things that brands someone forever as a total arsehole, like Frankie Boyle.

jcm

Frankie would have totally destroyed the Smiths: that c@nt's the c@nt's c@nt.

Chris Rock is Michael McIntyre, in comparison, and isn't even in the same league.

Oh God, not the "most violence is against men" argument - YET AGAIN.  Might be true - BUT IT'S MEN PERPETRATING IT!!!!!!

Well, clearly you personally need to frown a bit harder.  You maybe also need to look at the stats with regards domestic violence before trotting out this particular old cliche and justification for misogynism.

Good for you.  But why should what you personally feel about joking about medical complaints extend to everyone else?  And do you love the "jokes" when it's told by someone you have history with and dislike.  And do you love the "jokes" when they're not actually directed towards you but a close family member? 

It wasn't about hair, it was about alopecia.  That's not the same thing. 

Here's a little thought experiment.  Say your wife has a medical condition that's resulted in her putting on weight.  You're at a company conference and a guy you work with who you don't like and who you have a problematic work relationship with stands up to give a presentation.  But first he cracks a "fat" joke aimed specifically at your wife, mentioning her by name.  You'd really be happy with that and laugh along?

If i slapped someone for calling my mrs fat, id expect to be smacked back.

Also if i did it at work id be sacked and probably end up in court for assault and get some unpaid work.

If your rich and famous you get an oscar and get to have a little cry on tv

Whilst I agree with the sentiment that medical conditions should be treated very carefully when it comes to comedy, this is apples and oranges.

In your hypothetical work example, any professional workplace will quickly have HR involved, a likely reprimand or possibly worse. I know of one such example at a works kick off event (uk event, large US tech company 4 years ago, c2000 in attendance), where a very charismatic leader, who was also very funny and did a good job as a comic, made a few jokes about lesbians. He was fired.

Stand up comedy is different. These jokes he said wouldn't have raised an eyebrow in proper standup because they are normal, even expected, and whilst jokes about disability IMO should be confined to history, pushing the boundaries is what comedians should be free to do. They need to shock, and poke fun, but not at the expense of an innocent audience member. Good comedians should be funny, but also incredibly clever - neither demonstrated by Chris Rock in general.

Thinking about it though, I dont think CR was really taking the piss out of her disability, he was just drawing reference to her baldness. Did he actually know about her condition? Either way, it was a crappy joke whether he knew or not.

WS got it totally wrong though and will have to explain himself for years. 

Seems the norm for many comedy hosts, if you're not actually funny just find some individuals to mock and hope the rest of the pack joins you laughing at them. He could mock the audience collectively, but literally naming them is bad form to say the least. Or if he's that $hit a comedian, prearrange it with someone in the audience and pay them for it. I've wondered before if some hecklers are staged and their come back lines are rehearsed between them. 

I find it weird to me that people think these sort of jokes where you insult the audience are standard in comedy. I see a lot of live stand up, between open mic nights to festivals and area gigs. Very few jokes are taking the piss out of people unless it is themselves, it is much more telling a story. Even not funny subjects can be approached in ways that make them fun as long as it is told in the right way and it is not negative against the audience (The Darkness of Robins for example talks about struggles of mental health). Being a prat to the audience comedy might have been thing a couple of decades ago, but they are the gags that fall flat on their face now.


Edit to say maybe I am just thinking about the UK comedy scene rather than American

American comedy does have much more of a tradition for "roasts" and I guess that's seen as a good way to host an awards ceremony since Ricky Gervais raised the profile of the Golden Globes by insulting everybody.

I want to know if Will's momma was watching. And if so, did she get scared?

That's one of the strange things about the clip.  He slaps the guy and then turns his back and walks away without looking round, like he didn't have any concern that the other guy would come back at him.

I reckon there was something else in the background, or he was on something.

Not at all sure it was staged, I heard some discussion yesterday which mentioned that Smith has a lot of trauma from his feelings of being unable to protect his mother from his abusive father. He has apparently spoken of his homicidal feelings towards his father and that his public persona is a carefully contrived act to hide some massive anger and guilt issues.

Clearly it was all set up by Boris Johnson and those evil Tories in Westminster trying to set up a distraction from the upcoming partygate fines. Surely you of all people must have realised that?

I like the sentiments expressed in this, along the lines of Will Smith doing what children are always told not to do, and it being a part of male behaviour which can be termed 'toxic masculinity'.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-views-sunny-hostin-calls-out-will-smiths-...

People can get their knickers twisted about terms like that, but I think it's a fair label when it comes to fighting, or males being urged to man up, which comes down to not expressing feelings. 

I think Chris Rock was a bit shit, and Will Smith set a bad example. There's a 1000 better ways in which attention could have been brought to the insensitivity of Chris Rock's joke.

It's certainly put Ukraine, Partygate, whether the chip pan's been left on etc, into perspective, for everyone in social media land a least.

But I want to know, did she get the GI Jane 2 role?

If someone was making a massive joke of my Mrs in front of the whole world about a condition she was struggling with I think I would be inclined to punch them too! 

Before or after you'd laughed along heartily with the joke?

My Mrs is a grown up woman with equal rights to any man and doesn't need a man defending her honour, any more than I'd expect her to slap someone who was subjecting me to fat/bald jokes.

Smith shouldn't have slapped Rock yet Rock deserved a slap for telling such a shit joke. I think they're even.

Live on TV, an actor given hero status and a major award, hits someone for "dissing" his bird, and not only walks away with it but proceeds to do the big-man sweary thing after.

It sets an example to he impressionable and fans that this is safe, acceptable and even the moral thing to do, and that it will go unpunished.

Just because a war is going on elsewhere in the world doesnt mean all normal acceptable standards should be dropped at home.

If you really want to get all snowflake over a "slap" (routinely used by teachers as a way of gaining the attention of unruly pupils when I was a kid, so hardly the most physically damaging form of violence), then perhaps examine the irony of everyone getting their knickers in a twist over this at Hollywood of all places: an "institution" which makes most of it's money by on the one hand glorifying violence and on the other downplaying it's consequences.

Feels like something you'd read onThe Daily Mash.

Wrong then, and wrong now. 

And there's the obvious difference that one is fiction and make believe, and the other is real life. 

There's nowt snowflakey about calling out real life violence. 

there's nothing snowflakey about calling out people who make cheap jokes at the expense of a person medical condition, especially when directly naming them. Will just resolved it in the wrong manner, where's Rocks apology to every who has suffered bullying because of hair loss, this condition effect kids, not just adults. 

You know what, the more I think about it the more I think that the joke wasn't taking the piss out of her condition, but using her baldness as a prop to make the joke. I can't stand Rock, his style, his comedy. I cant even listen to his voice for long as it's like nails down a blackboard but in his defence (I may be clutching at straws and will possibly have to bleach my brain later) Im not convinced alopecia even figured is his thinking and that the whole thing was an unfortunate mixup and a overreaction, fuelled by a crap joke about someone's appearance, who happens to have a medical condition.

I didn't say there was. But hitting someone in the face isn't calling them out. Its hitting them in the face

I've been going bald for years, My dad was bald by his mid twenties.  Most bald men I know put up with jokes about it week in, week out.

Is it something that's a "medical condition " in women but not in men, I wonder?

do you know the difference between alopecia and baldness?

if he was just needing an alopecia sufferer to use as a prop, picking the wife of someone you have precisely clashed with, or don't get along with, in front of millions of people might not be considered wise.

i did say he resolved it in the wrong manner.

No, and neither do you. Alopecia simply means hair loss. 

I know, I wasn't trying to be argumentative (honest )

I don't disagree with this.

As I said, I can't stand Chris Rock and his 'comedy' and think the joke was rubbish, but having watched the episode many times now (alas, not sought it out but been drenched by it all over the media) I have come to the conclusion that Rock didn't give her hair loss, whether  through a medical condition or just shaving (black women shave their heads a lot and often look great), a second's thought.

-If he didn't know that she had a condition, then it was just a crap joke.

-If he did know but wasn't laughing at her condition, just using her baldness as a prop, then it was a crap joke and thoughtless/insensitive to her condition and how she might feel, especially if there's history between Rock and the Smiths.

-If he did know and was laughing at her condition (I cant image this for a second - replace alopecia with blindness, AIDs, something else - at the Oscars, one of the most watched shows in the Western world, even for Rock) then is was a crap joke, made in bad taste and he should feel utterly foolish, embarrassed, and never be allowed to host a show like this  again. He should also make a public apology to JPS and make a significant donation to autoimmune research. I say a show like this because I see adult live stand-up through a slightly difference lens.

Anyway, I'm over thinking this now.

Edit: WS shouldn't have kicked off regardless and wasted an opportunity although by accident he has certainly raised the profile of the condition. 

He certainly did. He managed to make Rock look like the good guy by taking the slap on the chin and moving on with professionalism.

He, Smith, could have called him out/slow hand clap him while looking disappointed but that would have been tricky as he'd been laughing heartily at the joke a second before.

My main issue is that Marty is publicly ripping Gloria. Didn't think Marty could take a slap so well. My kids would be gutted at this turn of events*!

*Madagascar reference.

I had a chuckle last night at the sheer number of "YouTube reactions" to this. It seems that every content creator and their cousin has an opinion.

All over one slap! 

"When all was said and done, more was said than done".

He's raised his profile, no doubt about it, but he's going to struggle to follow it... Probably have to resort to chinning Jill Biden during the next Superbowl interval, or summut?

Way up the thread I made a point about how I don't like to see violence against men minimised, accepted, or treated less seriously than violence against women. The implication being that I'd like violence against males taken more seriously, not that I'd like to see violence against women taken less seriously. 

In response you accused me of misogyny and not taking domestic violence seriously enough. You argued so far past my points that I couldn't be bothered to respond, despite being a bit annoyed.

Imagine my amusement then when I read this:

If I were a petty-minded churl I might ask: who's not taking domestic violence seriously now? Ner ner ner ner.

Fortunately I'm not that childish. 

[edit]

i.e. If WS had slapped the sh1t out of Amy Schumer (for example) do you think anyone would even countenance saying: "come on lads, it was only a slap......" Or indeed the OP that started this whole sh1tshow of a thread: "I think he should've knocked out Amy Schumer"

It's more obviously a medical condition in women.  It's an autoimmune condition (usually) that can affect either sex but isn't just male pattern baldness. (Yes, I know alopecia just means baldness but medically it's used to mean pathological baldness). 

Smith's wife has alopecia areata. Men can get it too.

My baldness is due to alopecia androgenetica. Women can get this, too.

Smith's condition is acquired through illness whereas mine is hereditary.

Baldness can be psychologically demoralising whether you are male or female, and whether it's the result of illness or it was passed down to you.

Most of us learn to get by and ride the jokes out, or seek to disguise the condition.

I can't really see why developing a medical condition during your life is so much worse than inheriting it.

I don't think I'm saying that.  I guess you could say that one form of alopecia is an abnormal sensitivity to a normal process (androgen-dependent hair loss) and the other is clearly a pathological autoimmune process (although that's likely to have a genetic component too) but I'm sure that's not much comfort if it happens to you.

Anyway, I think Rock's comment would have been equally insensitive applied to anyone, of either sex, appearing with sudden hair loss.  Would it have been more or less funny if it had been the result of chemotherapy?

Less funny. But mainly because chemo usually suggests a life threatening underlying condition.

Would his equally insensitive comment have provoked such a violent reaction if it had been directed at a man?

For me it was just an old fashioned application of sexist morals whereby you aren't allowed to address women in the same way as you might address a man. But if Smith felt the need to follow some archaic chivalrous code and defend his wife's honour, he should have also put into play the part of old fashioned etiquette which dictates that there shall be "no cussin' in front of the womenfolk". 

I guess that would depend on what his husband did about it.

When I heard Will Smith had slapped Chris Rock I thought:

...how is it that fossil fuel companies are paying negative amounts of tax, whilst making billions in profit, yet elderly people, disabled people, families with young children are going cold and hungry? Why did Rishi Sunak protect fossil fuel company profits in the latest budget, whilst reducing benefits and failing to meaningfully invest in decarbonisation of our economy? As a society, why do we allow politicians to protect those very people destroying our world?

"Yes," said my friend, over lunch, "but would you have slapped him if he'd said that about your wife?" I thought for a while and then gave my considered reply:

"You're right: the fact that our Prime Minister can repeatedly lie to Parliament and the public about breaking the law during the covid pandemic, can lie about gatherings that were known to and protected by Met Office Police Officers, really does illustrate the extent to which the law is used to criminalise, punish and expell minorities and working-class people, whilst the wealthiest expect to be above the law and are protected from its consequences..."

This was merely a warm up, before a long exegesis of the ways in which our society remains structured by colonialism, both in terms of inherited wealth, power relations and the state apparatus.

"So, you think the joke was OK?", asked a pupil in my class.

"Of course," I replied, "the basic misogyny of our society does structure our sexualities as much as it structures contemporary Labour relations... but, let's discuss that another day, eh?"