UKC

I’ve just been having a long discussion with a friend about the psychology of climbing and the role of fear in limiting our performance. I’ve been a long-suffering scaredy-cat, and so I find any discussion along those lines utterly fascinating. I’ve always found the psychology of performance in sport fascinating, as someone who plays ice hockey, but I love how climbing amplifies it a hundredfold by taking the same core considerations and placing them into consequential situations.

I feel that I’ve made some huge gains in the past couple of years, and was talking about them with my fellow scaredy-cat friend to see if she could gain any useful information out of it. Then I started wondering more generally, wouldn’t it be interesting to hear how other climbers cope when they start to feel fear?

I’ll start. A big change for me was realising that the rope isn’t the primary safety system – I am. So I shouldn’t be stressing about the system when the climbing is comfortably within my limits. Obviously one needs to actually place gear and do the trad admin, but committing a disproportionate amount of worry to it when the movement is comfortable is not necessary. I feel like I’ve taught myself to trust my movement more instead of always seeing ‘what-ifs?’ at every move and demanding absolute safety for vanishingly unlikely slips and falls. I now also, when I notice I’m getting scared, make myself pause and run the full risk assessment again. Is the gear good? Is the fall safe? Etc. And either I satisfy myself that it’s all rationally good, calm myself down and crack on, or I notice that there is a good rational cause for the unease and address it accordingly.

Obviously these things are all very individual, and so I was wondering what other habits or things other people have to address fear – particularly the irrational kind.

In reply to tehmarks:

For me, and no doubt this is just personal, fear should not be part of a climb or climbing for the most part. If it happens I'd rather retreat, try an easier route, or just pack it in for the day. I remember fear on only 3 occasions: off route leading an E3, when hanging on with failing fingers (followed by an unscary 80 foot fall - uninjured); first time back on the rock after a bad accident on a different occasion; and in the middle of the night on a glacier in a thunderstorm with an avalanche going past (the last was only a bit scary TBH)

In reply to profitofdoom:

Oh what I wouldn't do to have your head! I've always struggled with fear while climbing, but it's complicated and probably inextricably linked with a complicated fear of heights. I did at one point, a few years ago, question whether I actually enjoyed climbing or I just do it because it's now tied up in my identity. Thankfully I came to the conclusion that I do actually, fundamentally, really enjoy both moving on rock and the mental challenges that it presents. And seem to be fixing them quite effectively these days.

I appreciate that some people won't ever really suffer from that sort of irrational fear - but many many do, I'd wager.

In reply to tehmarks:

I don't know if I really do 'deal' with my fear, not consciously at least. I decided to try climbing after having a bit of a wobbly legs panic attack while walking across the Clifton suspension bridge in Bristol. I figured a bit of exposure therapy might help!

Things were going well, and I got to a point where I was trad leading and generally progressing up the grades. This all stopped when I had a fall and hit the floor, a combination of poor belaying (stood too far from the wall) and panicked gear placements being poor aswell. Since then when trad climbing, I may aswell be soloing from a psychological perspective. 

I suppose I deal with it by not having too.. I just climb long easy trad mountain routes, and save the grade pushing for sport and bouldering. I suppose as I get stronger, I might have more in the bag to allow slightly harder mountain routes to seem easier, if that makes sense, so a bit of trickle down grade pushing.

I would like to get back to pre groundfall mindset, as I rationally understand why it happened, I just can't seem to shift the deep amygdala brain panic! I shall read this thread with interest!

In reply to profitofdoom: So, to return to the point of the thread, what's your coping strategy? Or do you just stick to safe routes well witihn your ability ?

In reply to tehmarks:

I get scared leading indoors, because the walls are steep and I get rapidly pumped. I especially have fear of my hand popping while trying to clip, and so falling with lots of slack. I should cope by getting lots of mileage in to build stamina and confidence. I actually cope by not doing it very often, sticking within my grade, and resting excessively on the rope.

Outdoors, I don't get scared so much as stressed. The grades I climb don't tend to be steep enough for pump to be an issue, so there is no time pressure when in an unpleasant situation. I can feel the stress coming on and deal with it by slow breathing and muttering "calm" on each breath out. The point is the ritual, not the specific action. It reminds me that I can cope with this, that I will only get stuck if I panic.

In reply to wbo2:

What on earth makes you think I "stick to safe routes well within [my] ability"? I said nothing at all even remotely like that. I said that IF I was afraid, I'd "retreat, try an easier route, or just pack it in for the day." Which is completely different. And to respond to your comment, no I don't - I frequently choose routes at the top of or just beyond my ability, and moreover often slabby routes with loose rock and poor protection: the kind I sometimes prefer

You asked "what's your coping strategy?" When I have felt fear creeping in and am unable to retreat, I stabilise my stance on the rock, wait a minute or two, and force in a feeling of calming down and relaxing [as much as possible.... not always possible, of course]

In reply to tehmarks:

In previous seasons I made the mistake of jumping straight on a route at the max of my capabilities and getting shut down. Now we have a bit of a warm up, do a couple of easier routes and gently get into the higher grades and we find that gets the head slowly where it needs to be.

In reply to tehmarks:

Mileage/frequency/familiarity. A day out in the Lakes the other week being a good indicator. We both comfortably lead HVS but pretty much always on single pitch grit.. so multi pitch is a rare treat and whilst both technically competent and able, it remains outside of our comfort zone as it were. We started the day on a 3 pitch severe and took about 2 hours to get up it, which felt neither here nor there. The second route was a 3 pitch VS which we then raced up in an hour and a half, which felt great. 

In reply to tehmarks:

I was never very good at it, but the only times I did fall were on routes where I'd decided before setting off that it would be safe to fall and I that was either going to do it or fall off.

I guess that should have been a first step towards getting familiar with falling, and then hopefully reduce the fear and expand it out into pushing the boundaries more often

In reply to tehmarks:

I've struggled with irrational (and more rational) fear at times, and never really developed a coherent coping strategy. 

I did find the psychology chapter in Dale Goddard & Udo Neumann's 'Performance Rock Climbing' very helpful when I was struggling a bit with some aspects of my work though.  (Also at height and sometimes fairly exposed - this was a long time ago and the elf'n'safety culture has changed since then, some of it genuinely had the potential to be quite dangerous back in the day.)  Visualisation and such, the things I found most helpful were less a 'coping strategy' than a way to tackle the fear while not actually experiencing it at the time.

A couple of years ago my regular partner (who is *much* bolder on real rock than I have ever been) decided that he was too worried about falling indoors and needed to do some 'clip and drop' practice and deliberately fall off the top of some indoor routes.  He bullied himself into doing it for a while even though he really didn't want to and actually made things significantly worse!  As far as I know he still does get more gripped indoors that he is running it out above a wobbly wire and a not-very-convincing cam at the crag, the human mind is a funny thing innit.

In reply to tehmarks:

I don't think fear is a cause of me not climbing well, it's a symptom of it. When I'm going well (not very often these days!) it's relatively easy to park concerns at the back of the mind and go for it.

I think 'habituation' helps as well - I read about it in the Right Stuff and it made sense. If you haven't been getting out much your mind is overwhelmed by the novel scariness of it all; but it (and you) get used to it the more you are in that situation.

In reply to tehmarks:

Similar to yourself, I found that focusing on the movement was the key.

Being neither brave nor agile, for 20 years I juddered up routes with the fear boiling like a pressure cooker. When I had kids I found tbat climbing meant being out on my own all the time at my local crag. Juddering around wasnt fun any more and I  realised that to do the technically satisfying routes, I would have to enjoy making the individual moves, rather than just getting up routes. Limekilns was perfect for this, having flat walls and flat landings and small positive holds. I'd always liked soloing but this was the first time I'd really enjoyed it.

That said, a day without a healthy dose of trepidation, gut churning, knee shaking fear ( preferably before the route) isn't worth having. Overcoming those fears is what it's all about.

In reply to deepsoup:

I must admit I feel exactly like you friend, I feel far more comfortable leading trad than indoor sport. I suffer from sweaty hands so inside I really feel this and the feeling of sweaty hands greasing off plastic holds never inspires confidence when I’m inside and I think that leads to the fear I feel. 
 

I still have to “Have a word” with myself sometimes while trad leading, but all in all I feel far more comfortable on the rock than the plastic inside, 

I often wonder if it was just the confidence outside that made me feel less scared. 

In reply to tehmarks:

My main method of getting over fear of falling indoors and on sport was by doing lots and lots of falling.

It still needs general maintenance, and a good rule for that is if I feel scared but it's objectively safe to do so, I let go.

Fear of more specific situations such as arriving at a bolt pumped, or the need to clip early, require more specific approaches - e.g. always rest and recover *before* clipping the bolt, and for a period of time don't allow yourself to clip anything outside of the knee-to-shoulder-height zone.

I took a similar approach when I got into trad, but that was in places like Pembroke where the gear is bomber and plentiful, so practice falls were objectively safe.

I'm currently in Northumberland and getting back into trad after a long layoff. I'm finding it properly scary and I'll need to find different approaches - here it's common for the fear of the consequences of falling to be justified, even at low grades - and my strategies have always revolved around demonstrating that is OK to fall.

In reply to Ciro:

Enough said!

In reply to alan moore:

Funnily enough, though I've done loads of soloing in my time and like the climbing at Limekilns, it is one place, with its polish and often snappy looking holds, where I have never felt inclined to solo.

In reply to tehmarks:

I did the same thing, but came to the conclusion I just wasn't enjoying it any more. It was a very tough decision, which I sometimes regret making. Glad it  worked out for you.

In reply to Ridge:

There is, of course, nothing stopping you coming back to climbing when or if you feel more positive about it, or indeed dipping in and out as you like. I think life is much happier when you pursue the things that, at that moment, make you happy. When they stop making you happy, find some new things to make you happy instead. If you feel like you regret it one day, stick your rock shoes on and get on an amenable classic with good company and see what happens!

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

I've often made a variant of the 'warm-up mistake' by not being selective enough in my choice of warm-up and just jumping on something that should notionally be very easy (M, D, whatever) - but is actually some awful awkward traditional thrutchfest. Then I think that, if I'm struggling on a diff, I can't possibly be thinking of leading VS that day!?

It took an awful lot of repetitions of this trap for me to realise that I need to be more selective in the routes that I warm up on even when they're notionally several grades below my onsight grade...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

yes - well, in some sort of positive feedback loop, for me at least. If I feel like I'm moving like a clutz, I get more scared. And as fear increases, technique decreases. And then I feel like I'm moving like a clutz, and I get more scared, and...

It seems that a really key skill is to be able to separate stress and fear from technique. I really admire climbers who can continue on with impeccable technique despite being really mentally strung out.

Yes, completely. In all contexts I think - certainly it helps with my weird relationship with heights and exposure, and it also helps with the actual climbing aspect too. Unsurprisingly, really. Tom Randall said something really interesting along these lines in a vlog somewhere once. He apparently really badly suffers from the heights/exposure problem to the extent that, after a few months off, he can barely bring himself to sit and belay at the edge of the crag. And he said that, within a few weeks of repetition of this, it eventually stops being a thing entirely.

What I thought encouraging was that there's a professional climber out there who apparently suffers from the same sometimes near-crippling fear of heights. If it doesn't impede Tom Randall, professional climber, then...

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

I've had the opposite problem actually. I decide to get on something easyish to get myself back into trad, have a hard time on it then take it as a damning indictment of my inability to climb and get myself mega stressed about trying anything harder. Cue stroppiness, lack of confidence, wailing and gnashing of teeth and all that. This year I decided to try an alternative tactic of jumping straight onto something closer to last year's best onsight and yes, there was still pump and wailing and general faff but I got up it (eventually) and feel much more confident for the season ahead.

In reply to tehmarks:

youtube.com/watch?v=Iw9At_UxdAc&t=772

In reply to tehmarks:

Jeez. Is there anywhere in your climbing for fun and excitement and laughs?

In reply to aln:

Fantastically constructive, thank you.

In reply to tehmarks:

I don't have a consistently fantastic headgame, but sometimes I can climb with confidence and even boldness. My tactics:

- climb outside as much as possible, as indoor climbing is fun and strengthening but has f---- all to do with climbing on rock

- boulder outside and build up your ability to do hard moves several grades above your trad grade consistently; this pays off when you realise you have good gear and "only a f6A move" (or whatever) in front of you; it especially pays off if you do techy rather than purely burly problems

- similarly, fingerboarding helped me to feel mentally more at ease on crimps, as well as actually being a bit stronger

- seek good experiences and if you're feeling bad, don't give yourself a hard time

- feel motivated and set goals; get your desire up for harder climbs

- mantras, like "keep making upward progress", "sort your feet", "the hold isn't going to get any better just because you complain about it" and "good gear? then go!" help you to make decisions quickly

- one good experience leads to another and yet you can't always be climbing at your peak, so don't expect that.

Hope that helps!

In reply to tehmarks:

Oh... and if I'm at a good rest before a harder section, I'll happily build a little nest before launching out. Overplacing gear can be a problem, especially if you're trying to stop mid-crux, but if you're in a good position before harder climbing and you're able to get two bomber pieces of gear, the  why not? It may help you relax and crack on.

Finally, I think doing some routes well within your  capability where you're content to run  it out a bit can also help. E.g. some years ago I did a big Ogwen link up of 26 pitches or so, and we felt we had to run it out to move speedily. To start with I was a bit nervous about this but quickly I began to relish the freedom of not placing gear every 2m. That positive feeling fed into improving my confidence in my climbing as a whole, and has been helpful for being changing gear on long routes where difficulty is varied (e.g. a 10-pitch route with 200m harder climbing followed by 150m of much easier climbing   with the sun getting lower by the moment).

In reply to tehmarks:  I'm never sure that doing a lot of routes well inside your ability is useful for this as although you'll have a good head for long runouts on easy ground, when you get on something where you are likely to fall , that's a new scenario and you're back to square one.  So I break the routes down to managable pieces , maybe only one or two bolts at a time and conciously try to relax.

One thing I've found helpful is , when resting  and shaking out, to concentrate on the arm that's being rested/recovered rather than the one that's still working, and to build up the length of time for shaking out in blocks i.e. 2 seconds each arm, 3 seconds each arm, 4,5 etc.  The increasing recovery gives something positive to focus on, and reduces the fear of me falling off midclip, or being too tired to clip, place gear(my own negative fear)