UKC

NEWS: Dave MacLeod: Line Bolder/Harder Than Indian Face

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 Michael Ryan 10 Aug 2007
There's at least one top climber who has asked (in private so far) if there are actually any E10's in the UK, and he's qualified, with experience, to ask that question.

Next Saturday, on the 18th August, Dave MacLeod will be taking part in The Great Climb, a 6 hour outside broadcast......

He's just found a new line that, conditions being good, he will be attempting live on TV. He reckons it weighs in at E10.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
 Glyn Jones 10 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: sorry Mick but this is oxymoronic.

I don't quite understand that with IF - he didn't like it cos it was too brittle (or whatever he said) so too bold. So now he's doing something more bold?

Can someone help me understand this dichotomy/confusion.

Thanks for the help.

Glyn

P.S. I've looked at my post and it looks like an attack but it isn't, I'm tired so cannot write the way I want - the brain ain't properly in gear. Sorry.
 Stuart S 10 Aug 2007
In reply to Glyn Jones:

My take on it is that Dave didn't have a problem with the boldness of Indian Face per se, but rather the boldness combined with the unpredictable nature of the climbing (he reported a hold broke on him when he was top-roping, and feet smears which were liable to skid off).

This new line in the Cairngorms sounds like it's more his preferred style of climbing - steep and more positive (he talks about a line of 'brick edges' in his blog), on immactulate rock but with harder moves and worse gear.
 Jon Claw 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Stuart S:

Basically Indian Face psyched him out and he bottled it....but he just doesn't have the sangfroid to admit it? no?
 kevin stephens 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

This seems to me to be an ultimate example of the "quality of the line vs quality of the climbing" debate that pervades all grades from the humble to the ultimate climbing experiemce
 catt 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw & Glyn:

Perhaps people should accept that perhaps IF isn't all it's cracked up to be. Get over it. Dave has nothing to prove.
 ro8x 11 Aug 2007
In reply to catt:

ten four to that. well said.
 Steve Parker 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw:
> (In reply to Stuart S)
>
> Basically Indian Face psyched him out and he bottled it....but he just doesn't have the sangfroid to admit it? no?

You could assume that, if you wanted to dispute his own stated reasons. Of course, you'd have to think that you knew better than him and that he was a liar, and that you could so easily breeze in and see straight through the complex reasons why someone might not find a route to their liking. I think, given Dave's record, one might just give him the benefit of the doubt. Your seizing on the most condemnatory explanation (rather than allowing other possibilities) just suggests a rather mean-spirited and stupid attitude. In fact, you have no idea why Dave didn't do IF beyond what he has said himself, so it would be rather more reasonable if you didn't suggest you know all about it. Everything about his record so far says your analysis is wrong.

 TRNovice 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Perhaps if Dave wants to move on and have the internet incogniscienti focus on something else, he should refrain from mentioning IF for a bit. If the route wasn't for him, then so be it. I think the issue was a couple of things he said in trying to explain this (like he is meant to be an expert in media relations). Comparing new routes to IF tends to suggest that he is still not happy about that route or not happy about what people have said about him and that route. Maybe he should have said "This new route is top end 8a+ with really bad pro" as opposed to "Where Indian Face is 7b with bad pro, this is top end 8a+ with even worse pro" it's Dave himself who is perpetuating the IF chatter by making reference to it. Of course maybe he was pressed on this issue by the journalist – who knows.
 Andy S 11 Aug 2007
In reply to catt: Dave is a different style of climber than the first ascentionist (Johnny Dawes - read 'Deep Play' to get a good idea of his style!) and the few others that completed the route.

Johnny Dawes:
"Climbing for me provided a means of self-expression. Ability, too, can mean wider social acceptance, even if only in a superficial "one of the gang" way. To a young, socially immature person, that grew as a cancer, to a stage where my climbing was taken out of my hands to an extent. The end of this lies in photographs, sponsorship, ugly tights and a dead end with a bolted door. Eventually there comes a time when you have nothing to prove. You have made friends through compassion, and that bad side to your climbing disappears. With its departure there is left a strange beast - more able mentally and physically than before, but without the naivete and wonder of youth. Its direction becomes an anguished cry to complete fate within a cycle of time: and afterwards to move on to new, more dilute and comprehensive ambitions.

For me this involved many dangerous yet necessary climbs. The culmination of all this process was the Indian Face. The mechanics and story of this climb trace my liberation from... something?"

from http://www.johnnydawes.com/Indian_Face.htm

Dave is a different person (obviously!) - it's just not his cup of tea. He doesn't have to justify any of his actions and why should we care?

I enjoy keeping a tab on his activities, learning a thing or two and thinking about what drives a man in such a focussed lifestyle.

Nothing more!
Yorkspud 11 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw:
> (In reply to Stuart S)
>
> Basically Indian Face psyched him out and he bottled it....but he just doesn't have the sangfroid to admit it? no?

If you mean crumbly holds weren't his thing then yes - but he made that clear. The climbimg on his new line could well be bolder and harder but jsut a different , less Gagarthesque, typrm of boldness.
 Jon Claw 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Steve Parker:

You're not the first person to call me "mean-spirited and stupid"!

I can understand why someone most famous for his spectacular falls wouldn't want to go for this particular route...
 Stuart S 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw:

Are you shit-stirring for laughs, or are you genuinely unable to grasp the differences between Indian Face, Rhapsody and this Cairngorm project?

OP Michael Ryan 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Stuart S:
> (In reply to Jon Claw)
>
> Are you shit-stirring for laughs, or are you genuinely unable to grasp the differences between Indian Face, Rhapsody and this Cairngorm project?

Who can?

 SteveSBlake 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Stuart S: I think I've got it - IF is potentially fatal, Raphsody is a technically desperate bungee jump and we've yet to decide about the Cairngorm malarky.

Is that right?

Steve
 Stuart S 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Stuart S)

> Who can?

Well, Dave's had a pretty good go at it in reply to a comment on his latest blog entry ( http://davemacleod.blogspot.com/2007/08/great-climb-i-might-try-and-climb.html )
 JLS 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

From that photo the third pitch looks like it could be straightened out by climbing straight up from the belay. A future project?
 Jon Claw 12 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I must admit I am quite impressed that its going to be done in the middle of the night...

time to climb is 5 days and 9 hours according to website.
In reply to Jon Claw: are you 12yrs old ?
 Jon Claw 12 Aug 2007
In reply to jas wood:

Why 12?
 Jon Claw 12 Aug 2007
In reply to jas wood:

i rive and chow

How old you?
Anonymous 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw: i take it you understand what riving and chowing are then ? numpty
 Jon Claw 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Anonymous:

no
fish08 13 Aug 2007
I really hope the BBC doesn’t over blow the whole "certain death" element of such a hard climb. Dave will probably have a chance to talk about the risk assessment that goes with such a climb, but it would be a shame if a commentator chimes in every 5 minutes shrilly explaining how he could fall at any moment. I think it would give the wrong impression of what this climb is about for the sake of a more general audience who may get bored otherwise.
Barber Baz 13 Aug 2007
In reply to fish08: maybe they should get jim traynor off the BBC to do phone ins, "off the wall"..."and now we have archie from peterhead -fits a' this danglin wi ropes min, yon loon MacLeod is af his heid" davie from coatbridge "am nae happy wi gordon strachan"
 Ian McNeill 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
One assumes by the annotations on the photo its going to be a 'head point'
rather than an on sight lead?

Or is it not ?
 tony 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Ian McNeill:

If you read Dave's blog, it's fairly apparent there's a fair amount of head-pointing going on.
OP Michael Ryan 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Ian McNeill:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> One assumes by the annotations on the photo its going to be a 'head point'
> rather than an on sight lead?
>
> Or is it not ?

Top roped first Ian.

 Ian McNeill 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

So its the same game JD ND and NG played on the IF

So all thats needed after the TV show is either of these 3 to repeat this route and compare and contrast, If the hype can draw the crowds in the warm dry sunny autumn we are going to have this year.

I will have a read of the blog and see what hes has to say on the whole matter.

Pretty quiet day in Barmouth so I have some time today...
 Flatlander 13 Aug 2007
In reply to Jon Claw:

Maybe we should ask DJViper on how he feels about Dave and Indian Face
Richard Else 15 Aug 2007
In reply to fish08:

Fair point and can I reassue you we've no intention of doing this. The progarmme's produced by us at Triple Echo - as you probably know we've made a host of award winning climbing films around the world and authenticity is important to us.

We'll try and do our best and the commentary team is pretty knowledgeable and the safety team too. Hope you'll enjoy the programme... and hopefully the weather will be OK.

Best
Richard Else.

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