Some said that Haston shouldn't have cleaned it on abseil.
Stevie Haston says that, "Bam, Bam is one of the best single pitch routes in the world. "
Meanwhile Jack Geldard, UKClimbing.com's Chief Editor noting that 'conditions were perfect - there was nothing good on TV', grabbed a good friend, a double rack of gear, then took a deep breath and set off, onsight, up one of the UK's hardest and scariest rock climbs on the Lleyn Peninsular.
In reply to UKC News: First of all, nice one Jack, very impressive.
Something caught my eye though - Steve' comments at the bottom...
'I would just like to say I find it absurd that my detracters do not altogether have a small proportion of my ground up or onsight experience, some advice to them: don't talk about that which thou knows nowt about'
Amongst these detractors are Adam Long and Ian Parnell, not exactly your average UKC bumbly and i'm pretty sure they have a better grasp than most of ethcis. A lot of interesting info has been omitted, including reports that several other have tried this route ground-up after deciding not to abseil-clean/inspect first. I'm not going to get drawn into any bunfights, just think that people should read through everything said on both sides of the camp before making up their own minds. UKC reports often tell only part of the story, as indeed do any news reports.
> (In reply to UKC News) First of all, nice one Jack, very impressive.
> UKC reports often tell only part of the story, as indeed do any news reports.
Seeing as I just spent the last three hours writing that report I'd say that I agree with you ; o )
All the arguments are linked to in this news report: both forum threads at UKB and UKC where the ethical discussions have taken place.
> Amongst these detractors are Adam Long and Ian Parnell, not exactly your average UKC bumbly
And as a UKC bumbly I will refrain from taking umbrage at your insult much preferring to go out rock climbing as the day is still young...... but I'm not telling you where as we are stealing plum lines from under the noses of the Peaksies.
Senior Editor and Chief Punter
In reply to Adam L: George Orwell (clearly after a heated debate down the pub over the ethics of abseil gardening) said "if liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear". You stick to your (non-bolt) guns, sir.
Nice one Jack. Two whole racks!? Must be as safe as houses... <evil laugh>
I must say I find all of these ethical debates amusing. Chipping NO, crowbaring off 'looseness' YES, crowbaring off looseness using an ab rope, maybe? bolting YES/NO?, pre-placed trad gear YES/NO?, pegs - no unless someone else put them there?
Surely it is up to the FAionist to decide the ethics he want to employ? Bolting and chipping aside, of course. Or did SH push unfairly to the front of the queue and spoil it for all of the people who were mad keen to get the 'pure' ground up?
The fast repeat by JG surely illustrates that SH has created a fine climb, rather than destroyed one.
In reply to UKC News:
Is this an onsight? I mean he had a chance to visually inspect sections of the route before hauling up a second rack! Quite frankly I'm shocked at the way that climbing ethics have been eroded to the point that this is considered onsight. Maybe this is an on-site ascent (no leaving the crag) or do we need a new category. I really hope that to preserve the ethical purity of his ascent Jack hauled a load of useless gear up as well.
More seriously if you had taken everything you subsequently placed from the start would you have got off the deck?
n a narrow strip of land projecting into a sea or lake from the mainland
(C16: from Latin, literally: almost an island, from paene pene- + insula island)
♦ peninsular adj
The noun peninsula is sometimes confused with the adjective peninsular: the Iberian peninsula (not peninsular)
Craig Smith14 Sep 2009
I find it such a shame that your news article pimps the grade rather than the fact that the line and nature of the route is actually what's important. I guess this is the easiest way for you to grab folks attention, in the same way as the red tops use money and sex. A bit sad really. Come on UKC you are above this type of cheap journalism...I hope.
On the positive side, nice one Steve glad to see you on the lose again. Line looks great. I might have to get myself down and have a go. Do you think it will be quite easy for a big head?
Stevie Haston14 Sep 2009
In reply to Craig Smith: bon jour, you inspired me in 86 , got me off my sorry drunken ass, you were the best in early 86, shame you got distracted. Yes the route is brill,it,ll settle down like Tonight at Noon into being an ordinary mega classic. Stay clear of Grandfathers and Melody,although Harmony will suit you. Long live Dorris long may we sail in her.
It's my opinion, I'm not trying to wind you up.
As you've pithced it the article hinges on Jack repeating an E8...rather than Jack repeating a route that's taken til now to get a first ascent and was climbed by one of Britain's most original and talented, yet fairly unrecognized climbers, namely Stevie.
Your comprehension skills are lacking....which is shoddy considering you are a fellow of the Royal Society.
The report describes the difficulty and the nature of the climbing, the gear, Jack's ascent, Stevie and Leigh's first ascent, and the ethical debate. With links to discussions, original news items, a topo. Photos of the ascent.
All this not 12 hours after the second ascent. Jeez some people want the freakin earth. I'm surprised there hasn't been calls of, "Where's the video?"
You could say that the climbs looseness was emphasised a tad too much!
Included is a narrative by Stevie that was posted as I wrote the news report.
> climbed by one of Britain's most original and talented, yet fairly unrecognized climbers, namely Stevie.
Since when. Stevie Haston is recognised by most I would hope as one of the UK's greatest climbers
In reply to: All except Craig Smith: Cheers everyone for the nice comments. And watch it Parnell! I still have some routes in mind for you, and they have some big traverses on...
Good effort to Stevie Haston. A true legend of British climbing. I think some of his routes on this crag will be waiting for quite some time for a repeat. I thought Bam Bam was a really amazing route and, so good in fact that I have now decided that I won't do any more routes on the Stigmata...
Bit more info on Bam Bam: I found it almost like a route of 3 halves... I was scared for the first half, as I didn't like the gear, then I was scared and pumped for the second half, as I didn't like the gear and my arms didn't like the angle, then I was all out for the third half, as well, I was committed by that point.
I personally thought the physical crux was a longish run-out with some hard and steep moves above what turned out to be some of the better gear fortunately, a 4cu 0.5 and a 3cu 0.5 in a horizontal break. That was a few metres above the ledge in the photo in the report.
The mental crux was of course setting off. And leaving the resting ledge.
The lower section was relatively easy (maybe like E6 6a/b), but a bit scary and I had a bit of a moment a few moves before the ledge too when I stuck a cam in a slot that I really needed for my fingers, but I didn't dare take it out as the no. 1 wire I had in below didn't inspire me much.
A 3 star route and one that should really get more repeats.
Er, I think you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole trying to use French grades to grade a loose route. Also worth remembering 'Eye of the Tiger': a solid route, but spaced gear with some interesting fall potential E6 6c - F7c/Fc7+ only on-sighted once (let's call it 'flashed'), to my knowledge, with pre placed gear by Steve McClure. So E8 for a loose pumpy 6b route seems a little high to me...try E7 in old money, but what do I know?
Personally I think it was a great effort by stevie to put the route up and an amazing effort by jack. Its a shame about all this controversy. I've heard fairhead mentioned but didn't ricky bell clean the route done in Onsight before climbing it. He didn't recieve criticism for this, and rightfully not IMO.
obviously ground up is the ideal but I can't believe cleaning the route has been mentioned in the same breath as chipping etc.
Just a note stevie has done his 9a project! Awesome.
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