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"My knees are killing today and I think I've got whiplash," said Twenty-eight year old onsight purist Adam Long after a ground-up ascent of the 1994 Johnny Dawes' creation The Angel's Share, at Black Rocks in the Peak. A climb that was originally given E8 7a.
Question is, did he do it with or without a patio?
You can see for yourself at the news page of UKClimbing.com http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Question is, did he do it with or without a patio?
You can see for yourself at the news page of UKClimbing.com http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Ground up is NOT the same as onsight. Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
> "although some have been onsighted, or in modern parlance 'ground-upped'
Ground up is NOT the same as onsight. Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
In reply to Anonymous:
As the common truncation of "Onsight flash". In the same way that ground up is the common truncation of "Onsight ground up".
I can see why Mick might be confused, but it is certainly worth drawing the distinction.
> Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
As the common truncation of "Onsight flash". In the same way that ground up is the common truncation of "Onsight ground up".
I can see why Mick might be confused, but it is certainly worth drawing the distinction.
In reply to Fiend: How high is the route? Video and pics always seem to make things seem much smaller than when you are actually there.
In reply to Anonymous:
Dude...that's a ground-up flash!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
>
> Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
> [...]
>
>
> Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
Dude...that's a ground-up flash!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: And no clues on where to go, apart from the line of brushed + chalked holds.......
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Ben moon tries this in the extras section of dosage 4 and he doesnt get it - Good effort Adam
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Something that short doesn't deserve E8 7a.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Dude, that is sooo last week..
> Question is, did he do it with or without a patio?
Dude, that is sooo last week..
In reply to aln: Looks more like a highball boulder problem. But easy for me to say !
In reply to aln:
Try to onsight it without pads (what the E8 7a is given for) and tell me it doesn't deserve E8 7a then.
Try to onsight it without pads (what the E8 7a is given for) and tell me it doesn't deserve E8 7a then.
In reply to TobyA:
It might not look high, but believe me, pads or no pads, as soon as you stand in that runnel the ground seems a long way away! Fine effort Adam taking the falls, you could easily damage yourself quite badly.
> (In reply to Fiend) How high is the route? Video and pics always seem to make things seem much smaller than when you are actually there.
It might not look high, but believe me, pads or no pads, as soon as you stand in that runnel the ground seems a long way away! Fine effort Adam taking the falls, you could easily damage yourself quite badly.
In reply to Fiend: He is trying it with pads.
In reply to aln:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) Something that short doesn't deserve E8 7a.
repeat it and downgrade it then.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Good effort on Adam's behalf. Wonder what Dawes thinks of this style in contrast to his own?
Good effort on Adam's behalf. Wonder what Dawes thinks of this style in contrast to his own?
In reply to Fiend:
It's the short grit route grade conundrum, which at last is being solved by giving them Font grades. Much more meaningful, with the fear factor depending on how level the ground is and how many pads and spotters are in tow.
> (In reply to aln)
>
> Try to onsight it without pads (what the E8 7a is given for) and tell me it doesn't deserve E8 7a then.
>
> Try to onsight it without pads (what the E8 7a is given for) and tell me it doesn't deserve E8 7a then.
It's the short grit route grade conundrum, which at last is being solved by giving them Font grades. Much more meaningful, with the fear factor depending on how level the ground is and how many pads and spotters are in tow.
In reply to aln:
And he's not claiming it's E8 7a in the style climbed - he's claiming it's a ground up of a highball V9.
FFS do you really think an effort as fine as this deserves such ignorance??
And he's not claiming it's E8 7a in the style climbed - he's claiming it's a ground up of a highball V9.
FFS do you really think an effort as fine as this deserves such ignorance??
In reply to Tom, UKC News Editor:
Or, better, being solved by the BMC way of giving them the original grades for the original style, and V grades for the new style....best of both worlds.
> It's the short grit route grade conundrum, which at last is being solved by giving them Font grades. Much more meaningful, with the fear factor depending on how level the ground is and how many pads and spotters are in tow.
Or, better, being solved by the BMC way of giving them the original grades for the original style, and V grades for the new style....best of both worlds.
In reply to andi turner:
Sooooo, 2000 for me in the Bishop, nice to see you catching up at last.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> Dude, that is sooo last week..
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> Dude, that is sooo last week..
Sooooo, 2000 for me in the Bishop, nice to see you catching up at last.
In reply to Anonymous:
We have style of ascent terminology for routes that is well established, for bouldering that is less established, for those climbs that are between routes and boulder problems we have a mix of the two. Plus there is some duplication of terms and crossover.
We are working on a glossery.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> Ground up is NOT the same as onsight. Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
> [...]
>
> Ground up is NOT the same as onsight. Onsight implies doing it on your first attempt.
We have style of ascent terminology for routes that is well established, for bouldering that is less established, for those climbs that are between routes and boulder problems we have a mix of the two. Plus there is some duplication of terms and crossover.
We are working on a glossery.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
A dictionary would also be useful in addition to the 'glossery'.
> (In reply to Anonymous)
> [...]
>
> We have style of ascent terminology for routes that is well established, for bouldering that is less established, for those climbs that are between routes and boulder problems we have a mix of the two. Plus there is some duplication of terms and crossover.
>
> We are working on a glossery.
>
> Mick
> [...]
>
> We have style of ascent terminology for routes that is well established, for bouldering that is less established, for those climbs that are between routes and boulder problems we have a mix of the two. Plus there is some duplication of terms and crossover.
>
> We are working on a glossery.
>
> Mick
A dictionary would also be useful in addition to the 'glossery'.
1
In reply to aln:
think you missed the point of the article?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) Something that short doesn't deserve E8 7a.
think you missed the point of the article?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: although some have been onsighted, or in modern parlance 'ground-upped' (not to be confused with big upped).
I do think this ought to be corrected, I know you say above that the terms we use are now being inter mixed, but this is misleading and there is a clear difference in approach. I hope the glossary your working on is less so.
I do think this ought to be corrected, I know you say above that the terms we use are now being inter mixed, but this is misleading and there is a clear difference in approach. I hope the glossary your working on is less so.
In reply to Paul B:
Be our guest Paul.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) although some have been onsighted, or in modern parlance 'ground-upped' (not to be confused with big upped).
>
> I do think this ought to be corrected,
>
> I do think this ought to be corrected,
Be our guest Paul.
A fantastic achievement, a truly beautiful line.... massive well done to Adam....
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I missed the point Yorkspud? If the point was youre mate's pure dead brilliant for climbing that thing he climbed then I'm wrong for not telling him how brilliant he is. On the other hand if the point is I don't think a bit of rock that short should be given the grade of E8 7a then I think my point is correct.
> "My knees are killing today and I think I've got whiplash," said Twenty-eight year old onsight purist Adam Long after a ground-up ascent of the 1994 Johnny Dawes' creation The Angel's Share, at Black Rocks in the Peak. A climb that was originally given E8 7a.
>
> Question is, did he do it with or without a patio?
>
> You can see for yourself at the news page of UKClimbing.com http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
>
> Question is, did he do it with or without a patio?
>
> You can see for yourself at the news page of UKClimbing.com http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
I missed the point Yorkspud? If the point was youre mate's pure dead brilliant for climbing that thing he climbed then I'm wrong for not telling him how brilliant he is. On the other hand if the point is I don't think a bit of rock that short should be given the grade of E8 7a then I think my point is correct.
In reply to aln:
Look. You have already demonstrated you don't understand the British grading system nor how it is changing in line with the new style of climbing. So just quit while you're behind, okay.
Look. You have already demonstrated you don't understand the British grading system nor how it is changing in line with the new style of climbing. So just quit while you're behind, okay.
In reply to aln: I really hate to agree with Fiend, but
"You have already demonstrated you don't understand the British grading system"
Sums it up quite nicely.
Congrats Adam, looking forward to checking this bloc out.
"You have already demonstrated you don't understand the British grading system"
Sums it up quite nicely.
Congrats Adam, looking forward to checking this bloc out.
In reply to Paul B:
oh and not to miss the point: Absoloutely amazing achievement, very impressive and bold.
Good to see it on the UKC news as well.
oh and not to miss the point: Absoloutely amazing achievement, very impressive and bold.
Good to see it on the UKC news as well.
In reply to Fiend: You're obviously "in line" with "new style" stuff, how's that working out for you? After 20 odd years of climbing, the one thing I've objectively realised is how subjective grading is.
In reply to aln: And my subjective opinion is that a 5m bit of rock doesn't deserve E8.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:But what's he ever done on Stanage....?
In reply to aln:
You clearly have no proper understanding of the British grading system. Although the application of it is subjective the criteria to be applied are not. Height by its self is not a criteria.
> (In reply to aln) And my subjective opinion is that a 5m bit of rock doesn't deserve E8.
You clearly have no proper understanding of the British grading system. Although the application of it is subjective the criteria to be applied are not. Height by its self is not a criteria.
In reply to All:
Move along, move along, nothing to see people - except a bloody talented guy climbing a bloody hard piece of rock irrespective of your grade quibbles
Nice one Adam
Move along, move along, nothing to see people - except a bloody talented guy climbing a bloody hard piece of rock irrespective of your grade quibbles
Nice one Adam
In reply to aln: your are fully entitled to your opinion, but many on here will try and change it its a bit more than 5m,
knotgrass stunt at RHS is 5m and got e5, but with pads its a nice problem, ntbta is 6m and old skool e2 safe landing ish and hard part over with
ive stood in that gutter, that was high enough for one mat, with no mats any route up that slab is a serious proposistion, especially if its a bit green, which it will be!
knotgrass stunt at RHS is 5m and got e5, but with pads its a nice problem, ntbta is 6m and old skool e2 safe landing ish and hard part over with
ive stood in that gutter, that was high enough for one mat, with no mats any route up that slab is a serious proposistion, especially if its a bit green, which it will be!
In reply to Glyn Jones: It's padding up a slab FFS. Totally condition's dependant. And what, 6m's instead of 5? Big deal.
In reply to aln: 8m. http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=10806
Plenty high enough to hurt yourself.
Plenty high enough to hurt yourself.
In reply to aln: yes climbing hard lines totally conditions dependant i will agree with you on that, as you can see by the green on the slab
it takes technique to pad up a slab like that, which is why i havent done it
it takes technique to pad up a slab like that, which is why i havent done it
In reply to aln:
And??? It's British 7a padding up a slab. And if you can name a hard grit route that isn't conditions dependant you will also have demonstrated your total lack of knowledge of any hard route not just this one.
> (In reply to Glyn Jones) It's padding up a slab FFS. Totally condition's dependant.
And??? It's British 7a padding up a slab. And if you can name a hard grit route that isn't conditions dependant you will also have demonstrated your total lack of knowledge of any hard route not just this one.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
seem to remember there being a very nasty boulder edge right under the crux. With mats its a severe shaking up and sprains. Hitting the ground from the crux is a trip to hospital. I couldn't do it on a tight toprope, so more than likely it is 6c. It is a bloody bad fall, even with mats. That's why there's no queue.
seem to remember there being a very nasty boulder edge right under the crux. With mats its a severe shaking up and sprains. Hitting the ground from the crux is a trip to hospital. I couldn't do it on a tight toprope, so more than likely it is 6c. It is a bloody bad fall, even with mats. That's why there's no queue.
In reply to John Kirk:
There are a few big roots under the pads, but no major rocks. A few years ago I fell off the top of Velvet Silence due to snow, without pads, and got away with just a bruised heel.
Interestingly I just got an email from Paul Mitchell who reckons Johnny piled pine branches underneath to soften the landing, and apparently tested it a couple of times too! Ahead of his time as ever...
There are a few big roots under the pads, but no major rocks. A few years ago I fell off the top of Velvet Silence due to snow, without pads, and got away with just a bruised heel.
Interestingly I just got an email from Paul Mitchell who reckons Johnny piled pine branches underneath to soften the landing, and apparently tested it a couple of times too! Ahead of his time as ever...
In reply to Adam L: Again, nice one - is there any chance you could bottle off some of your talent for sale to mere mortals?
In reply to Adam L:
It's the anti-gravity beanie that made the difference!
Impressive stuff, well done.
It's the anti-gravity beanie that made the difference!
Impressive stuff, well done.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Ha, great stuff. Glad to see that we are still on catch up, in the Peak at least (well the East anyway....)
> (In reply to andi turner)
> [...]
>
> Sooooo, 2000 for me in the Bishop, nice to see you catching up at last.
> [...]
>
> Sooooo, 2000 for me in the Bishop, nice to see you catching up at last.
Ha, great stuff. Glad to see that we are still on catch up, in the Peak at least (well the East anyway....)
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Last time I was in the peak I had a look at this line. Defo deserves the grade if you ask me.
You are on nothing holds fairly high up... Very dangerous without mats and spotters (dangerous with them too)
Mr Long never ceases to amaze me. Top effort boyo!
Last time I was in the peak I had a look at this line. Defo deserves the grade if you ask me.
You are on nothing holds fairly high up... Very dangerous without mats and spotters (dangerous with them too)
Mr Long never ceases to amaze me. Top effort boyo!
In reply to Adam L:
poor eyesight and memory combined ! Both Johnny and Gabe's routes were fairly futuristic. I think Gabe used the old three rucsacs routine.
> (In reply to John Kirk)
>
> There are a few big roots under the pads, but no major rocks. A few years ago I fell off the top of Velvet Silence due to snow, without pads, and got away with just a bruised heel.
>
> Interestingly I just got an email from Paul Mitchell who reckons Johnny piled pine branches underneath to soften the landing, and apparently tested it a couple of times too! Ahead of his time as ever...
>
> There are a few big roots under the pads, but no major rocks. A few years ago I fell off the top of Velvet Silence due to snow, without pads, and got away with just a bruised heel.
>
> Interestingly I just got an email from Paul Mitchell who reckons Johnny piled pine branches underneath to soften the landing, and apparently tested it a couple of times too! Ahead of his time as ever...
poor eyesight and memory combined ! Both Johnny and Gabe's routes were fairly futuristic. I think Gabe used the old three rucsacs routine.
In reply to aln:
Padding up a slab is doing sunset slab, or the top half of Tody's Wall. 'Padding' up a 7a slab is a completely different kettle of fish. I think thats pretty obvious from the video.
> (In reply to Glyn Jones) It's padding up a slab FFS.
Padding up a slab is doing sunset slab, or the top half of Tody's Wall. 'Padding' up a 7a slab is a completely different kettle of fish. I think thats pretty obvious from the video.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
(poor) photo of The Block & Angel's Share here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=62914
Phil.
(poor) photo of The Block & Angel's Share here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=62914
Phil.
In reply to Phil West:
Those forerunners to the modern bouldering mat were certainy a strange shape, Phil....
Those forerunners to the modern bouldering mat were certainy a strange shape, Phil....
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