UKC

Ticking 7a can be a significant achievement for a keen sport or indoor climber. Compared to routes in the 6th grade, 7a typically requires greater finger strength, endurance, route-reading and technique. This combination of skills and physical attributes can take time to develop, but it's not outwith your reach with consistency and focus.

Here are some tips for breaking into the 7s...

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Indeed. I climbed my first UIAA VIII-, 7a and 5.12a in consecutive years. Sadly the progress largely stopped at that point.

Lots of great advice. To the point in the last paragraph, you can climb 7a and then you can climb 7a at the Cornice. 

And for those of us outside the bubble ... 'the Cornice'? 

(Not my Dislikes btw)

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/chee_dale_lower-10866/#clarion_wal...

Martial Music and Clarion Call didn't seem outrageously tough at 7a to me...

Is there a tip for not getting injured?

The Peak natural lime crags are relatively short and quite bouldery, so unless someone is good at that style (which a lot of people climbing 6s won’t be), the grades will feel hard compared to something longer and more stamina based (Llanymynech is the best example that I’ve come across in the UK, also Portland and many other places). Even Yorks crags like Malham and Kilnsey can feel easier at those grades and they aren’t exactly soft touches! 

I suspect you weren’t trying to break into 7a at the time but if you did MM and CC as your early 7as, that’s pretty impressive. MM isn’t too bad for the Cornice but the crux is still harder than a lot of 7as. CC had a notoriously vicious crux move off nasty crimps which regularly shuts down people from what I’ve seen.

Great question. I suspect the answer is sticking to 6a

Thanks for the info. but you missed my implied question which was: what or where is 'The Cornice'? I had no idea (till JLS posted a link to Chee Dale) and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Never mind breaking into 7a, I've done them many times - and climbed multiple 8as - and still find them desperate 😂

It's a very popular sport climbing area in Chee Dale, lots of hard routes (it starts at 7a). Grades are perfectly reasonable IMO, and not particularly sandbagged as is being implied. 

We've published quite a lot on this topic previously.

Whilst it's 10 years old, Robin O'Leary's series is still a fantastic resource and covers a lot of ground. Another article worth reading is the one Natalie Berry wrote on the psychological impact of injury, which is excellent. 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/series/injury_management/injury_managem...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/injuries/patience_pending_the_mental_si...

When it comes to my own experiences of injury, the answer regarding why I've got injured in the first place has always been obvious in retrospect, insofar as I've inevitably overdone it!! Learn to listen to your body, acknowledge when you're tired, and know when to stop. Also learn to warm-up properly, don't go into a session dehydrated or under nourished, and don't expect a PB each and every time you go climbing. Build up slowly and be consistent.

Interestingly all the injuries I've ever had have come off the back of bouldering. There's a variety of reasons for this, with the main one being that it is - by its nature - the most intensive of all the various disciplines of climbing; however, it's also my weakest, hence when I was trying to progress I really had to push at my limits which, on several occasions, led to me overdoing it.

The resources linked by Rob Greenwood are good, but if you are really serious about it, my suggestion would be to get Dave Mcleod's book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Make-Break-Climbing-Injuries-Dictate/dp/0956428134

also probably best to start changing your mindset from "how to avoid injuries" to "how to manage injuries" as it will help with your longevity in the sport.

These are good tips on adapting yourself to your chosen 7a. It’s also worth a few thoughts on choosing the best 7a for you. 

Does it suit your strengths? An anti-style 6c might be harder for you than a 7a that is more your cup of tea. If you are a boulderer then Raw Deal, where the business is 3-4 moves, might be a good choice. If you’re a plodder like me then something in Spain or Llanymynech might be a better option. 

Can you find a supportive partner for the route? Not everyone is happy indulging you whilst you rehearse your beta again when they’d prefer to be somewhere else. Ideally they want to try it with you or have done it already so you can share ideas. Intangible positive vibes - the right kind of encouragement for you - can make a big difference too.

How are the logistics? A hard-for-you route might take several visits. Something at The Cornice or The Promenade might only be in condition two months of the year. Choosing somewhere climbable most of the year like Portland or the North Welsh Coast might tip the odds in your favour. 

Does it inspire you? Should be self-explanatory.

The only time I've been able to climb 7a consistently enough to be able to claim I'm a 7a climber is when I can climb every day, with a few rest days, for a month. Soon after getting back from the holiday I'm back down to 6c's. And that's only on a good day

I only skimmed through the article but agree with that.

Finding a regular partner/s that you build trust with is invaluable. Lots of people don’t have a person they can get out with loads which can limit the amount of days they can get out.

Indeed a good partner is a valuable resource. Especially If working on a really hard project (for you), it might also make sense to learn How to toprope solo… and How to set up said toprope also solo (some crags are not a straight forward, walk to to top and clip the anchors). This will allow low stress practise/training even If your to-go partner is not available. 
 

my trusted partner is my wife, but now with kids our climbing together time is rather limited. So nowadays we often end up working our project solo. And then only drag the partner when we have things more or less dialed. 

I had seen JLS’s response so just picked up on the nature of the climbing. There are in fact two Cornices in the Wye Valley. The other one is a couple of miles downstream, in the Water-cum-Jolly area. Usually referred to as WCJ Cornice. Incidentally, I don’t think many people refer to the wider area as the Wye Valley, though a 90s (?) gudie book was actually called that. Then there is the other Wye Valley… All rather confusing!

They aren’t sandbags, it’s just that a lot of other area / crags (including Peak quarried lime) are soft. 

This article is absolutely spot on, very good!

Something I found that really helps me get up hard (for me) routes that you often don’t see a lot written about is mental focus.

If your going for the redpoint on a hard project use the time in between attempts to visualise what you’re going to do, what the exact sequence through the crux is, where you’re going to rest and breathe and get your pulse down and (important one) visualise yourself clipping the chains having climbed the route, think about how that’s going to feel.

When you pull on you’ll be relaxed and ina kind of xen state and able to enter that flow state more quickly - sometimes it can feel almost out of body as your a spectator watching your body do the moves you’ve been thinking about. Total focus, total control.

I know this all sounds a bit woo, but it worked for me, may do for others too.

The couple I have done (which, if we are honest are probably more like 6c/+) were both a bit knacky and just required rehearsing the moves until they went. There are 7as which there is no way I'd be able to do without some serious physical training but there are for sure some that just need working out. 

If you really want to just tick the grade then this has to be the easiest way to go about it!

Thank for the injury links and comments. I still think it's responsible to link one standard 'avoiding injury' article to all these 'how to improve'  articles. Too often 'wide eyed' but inexperienced climbers misread things and hurt themselves and there are very real additional concerns for kids. I had the same concerns on the excellent 7A article.

Yeah. To some extent, some notatiin of injury prevention should be part of these training/progressing articles. 
 

if you get an injury, you can’t train. And then you won’t progress.

Doesn't that mean that they are effectively graded for the onsight, so don't really "count" as a redpoint if it is all about the grade (which it is in this context!).

I only climb on sight.  I was once persuaded to have a go at redpointing on a 7a on Kalymnos.  It felt two grades easier than on sighting but I did not enjoy the experience and got very little satisfaction from getting up it. Not a criticism just me

How many slabby 7as are there? Of the pictured routes, that Discomancer (7a) looks like the most approachable style for me. I've never really thought of trying a significantly harder route than normal in my style, but the only 6b+s I've done in recent decades have been on the Library Slab at  Moss Rake and I flashed the 6c next to them on a top rope...

Not a massive redpointer myself to be honest. I don’t mind if a route takes me several attempts over the course of a day (I call it a mini-redpoint) but I’m unlikely to go back for several sessions. 

I did go back for 3 sessions on my first 7a, but I felt an enormous sense of satisfaction when I got it so for me it was worth it. Not sure I’d make it a habit though!

Thousands, probably.....

Depends on your definition of slabby. 

I'd be interested to know why my earlier post is getting all the dislikes. If a route is hard to onsight so gets 7a because of a hard to read or trick sequence or a hidden hold or very unobvious way of using a hold or whatever, but after hanging on a rope for a bit and working it out means it is no harder to redpoint than most 6c's then I would say someone claiming the 7a grade on the redpoint is kidding themselves somewhat; if the grade were for the redpoint it should be getting 6c rather than 7a.

I’m rarely a sport climber, so this might be a dumb question….  Isn’t the grade, in a guide, on UKC, etc, for climbing it whether onsight, flash or a multi session redpoint siege?

I appreciate some people have a greater appreciation for a climber onsighting or flashing something but I’m not aware of different grades being applied.

I have generally understood that sport grades are generally given for the onsight up to 7a or so and redpoint above that (though I am sure there is plenty of variation and exceptions). So there would be some routes correctly given 7a for the onsight which are particularly hard to read and so very soft at that grade to redpoint.

Do you just give up if you don't get it first go?

Depends but essentially yes. If I'm over half way I may continue to the belay simply because it's more convenient..  But the onsight is blown so in my head it's a compromised ascent.

To be honest, that's as much to do with it being on Kalymnos than you practicing the moves...

I think we can agree that the idea of redpointing is to find the easiest way of climbing the route for you and then practice it (adjusting as required) until you can do it.

Routes which have hidden holds or unobvious ways to use a hold are a bit of an anomaly in that they may well need a practice run (unless you find the hidden hold etc - typically because you have a few grades in hand so can hang around to work it out) but once you know what to do they are no harder than grade X. There’s then a grading dilemma - should it get X or X+? If most people whose onsight grade is X have to redpoint it, I’d say it’s X+.

Routes up to about 7a being graded for the onsight and beyond that for the redpoint has been debated here a few times. Opinions vary but I think the general consensus is that above about 7a they are certainly given for the redpoint but opinion is divided on the position up to about 7a.

One argument is that most ascents up to about 7a are onsights or at least attempted as onsights, so the grading reflects this. However I’m not sure this is actually true as plenty of people work routes to some extent, certainly at 7a (it’s probably true up to about 6a though). Going back to my earlier example of the Cornice, I really don’t think the 7as there are graded for the onsight!

That's far too subtle and nuanced for a plain speaking Yorkshireman like me to get

I will be the first to admit that I don't think I could climb anything harder than 7a without prior knowledge and practicing the moves.

Well it should certainly get X+ if graded for the onsight, but quite possibly not if graded for the redpoint. All I'm saying if that if it is graded for the onsight, people might be kidding themselves that they have really redpointed X+ if they have only redpointed one or two such anomalous routes. Same as I would be kidding myself I had done a route of grade Y if on the only one I had done I could reach past the crux.

The one and only Redpoint I have done involved a couple of hidden holds.  On sight they were impossible to see and difficult to find while trying to hang on with rapidly diminishing arm strength.  Once you did it dropped two grades IMO.

I always thought sport climbing grades (and bouldering) were based on the easiest sequence, for an average size climber, in good conditions, irrespective the number of attempts.

I found an old thread from 2016 that where Alan James referred to so something he wrote about grading:

Onsight or Redpoint?

An onsight grade assumes that you turn up at the base of the route and climb it with no prior knowledge; a redpoint grade assumes that you have practiced every move on the route until you know it intimately before your ascent and the redpoint grade is the grade of the route on the final clean ascent. Some sport routes can become significantly easier once you know a trick or a sequence, and others barely change in grade at all no matter how familiar they are. For example, two routes could both be given 6c+ for the onsight ascent, yet one of them becomes dead easy once you figure out the sequence. This presents a grading problem since, in reality, one of the routes is a lot easier than the other and it is conceivable that someone could hit the correct sequence on their onsight.

What generally tends to happen with grades across the world is that routes are graded in the style that they are usually climbed. So for easier routes below about 6b+ the grade is almost invariably an on-sight grade. For routes above about 7b it is almost always given a redpoint grade. In between is a bit of a grey area and the practice can vary from location to location. The best advice if unsure and you wish to onsight a route is to read the signs:

So, if I were to redpoint my first 7a, I’ve not climbed a 7a?  If I redpoint my first 6a, I’ve not climbed 6a?  But if I redpoint my first 8a, that would count as 8a?

I was going to say that this was the key advice missing from the article. If you want to climb your first 7a, go climbing somewhere that's full of soft touches! It's no coincidence that my first '7a' onsights, my only '7a+' onsights and my only '7b' flash (which hilariously was given 7b+ in my guide at the time) were all on Kaly... 🙄

Only, arguably, if it is graded for the onsight and then only if it is one of the quite rare anomalous routes as discussed where the redpoint and onsight grades are different. So probably, for a big majority of routes, you will have redpointed 7a.

I always assumed all sport climbs are just graded as they are. If you onsight a 7a then kudos. If you work it that's fine too. It doesn't stop it being a 7a.

Trad is a different beast and the difference between onsighting and redpointing is vast. 

Well yes, but does that grade take into account, say, a completely hidden hold or completely unobvious trick?

So is the difference between onsighting and redpointing sport. 

Yep! I've just back from my first Kalymnos trip and on average everything seemed about 2 grades out of sync with the rest of Europe. And about 4 grades out of sync with Slovenia. My ego was loving it though.

On reflection, think you’re right - if it feels like grade X to redpoint then it’s grade X, assuming the grading is for a redpoint. Which it should be from about 7a. 

Of course not, if you’ve redpointed grade X, you’ve repointed grade X, even if the grade is for an onsight. The reality is that for routes which are graded for the onsight, the onsight vs redpoint difference is relatively small. The average 6b+ is relatively easy to read. That’s another reason easier routes are said to be graded for the onsight - it’s just not that different to a redpoint. 

…but you’d get a lot more satisfaction from doing a 7a at Kilnsey 😉

Ah, fair enough. Some routes really get in my head if I don't get them, some don't I guess. Although, I generally tend to work routes ground up, I've tried faffing about with a clipstick but at the sort of grades I operate at it does feel too much like cheating (not that I'm above cheating, but routes harder won defo feel more fulfilling so I get your point)

There is only one grade.

This sort of distinction about whether a route is graded for the redpoint and therefore hard to onsight, graded for the onsight and therefore an easy redpoint tick or whatever comes up more in idle internet chatter than it does in the real world. I wouldn't worry about it

See discussion above - the quote from Alan James is a very good summary. If in doubt, assume it’s for a redpoint…

Grades in Kalymnos are softer than your average Lancastrian 

IMO it's quite rare for a grade to be for an onsight, even for routes of grade 5 and 6. I expect that could be the case if routes were to be graded by consensus (e.g. as per voting on here) but the vast majority of routes are graded by the equipper, who will usually have intimate knowledge of holds and possible sequences. Inertia then takes over and it would take quite a bit of convincing for a grade to be raised simply because people were missing the easiest sequence.

I completely agree and I also think most people on here who are saying "6b and below is for the onsight" regularly onsight 6b. In fact is this the real trap below 6b in that the consensus and discussion all comes from climbers who don't really find it too much of a challenge.

If you don't regularly onsight 6b and find it hard to redpoint most of them, then I think the situation seems quite different. 

Some of the early European Guides specifically said graded for the redpoint so I assumed this to be the case universally for sport which is why I was surprised some years ago to read in one of the Orpierre guides "graded for the on sight".  I have one Costa Blanca guide that is graded with UK trad grades.

It's very fashionable to slag off Kalymnos grading. Much like many newer areas this has some truth but is mainly down to a change in standards rather than softer grading.

Take a benchmark Kalymnos route at whatever grade, 7a since this is the topic. Now strip 2/3rds of its bolts, next polish the holds to a fine Yorkshire sheen, finally add poor weather and conditions preceded by a stressful.week at work.

The grades don't seem too far apart now.

I reckon this is right.

FWIW I live in a southern european sport climbing area, one that gets accused of sandbagged grades and not soft grading: Slovenians even come and sometimes complain about sandbagging in some areas, which makes the locals very proud.

Here in the local climbing scene there is very little emphasis overall on onsighting. Onsighting just doesn't have the same 'purest/best climbing style' status as it does in the UK. People will set off, place the draws, sit at the crux, have a look around, maybe french up a bolt or two, look at the holds, try the sequence, come down, rest, and then give it a second go to climb clean. Basically like a flash attempt but youre the only one who is going to put the draws up, so you have to do it yourself.

So redpointing is the absolute norm, but not 'practice every micromovement 1000x until you can do it in your sleep' redpointing, but rather 'have a quick look, see if there are any nasty surprises, put the draws up, see where the holds are, then give it a good blast on second or third go' redpointing. Obviously on top of this is people pushing their limits with longer redpoint projects, which imo is not dependent on the grade itself but only the grade relative to their maximum. I really rarely see local climbers going to battle to get the onsight of a near-limit climb.

This makes me very very very much doubt that grades here are 'for the onsight' (at any level), but also that it is an exaggeration to say that the grade is for a redpoint in which you have investigated every milimetre of rock and practiced every movement thousands of time.

Fair point. 

My impression is that this is pretty much the norm at euro-crags and that a full on onsight fight (and walking away from the route if it fails) is often seen as a bit of a British eccentricity - admirable but a bit odd. 

Yet, at the top end, the likes of Ondra clearly massively value the onsight/flash.

People still value onsight/flash and are impressed when someone climbs a climb in those styles, but it just isn't common to see someone fighting to the death to get the onsight. I think that due to redpointing being the norm many people are used to climbing above their onsight limit and so consider that if you can onsight something, it wasn't hard enough. Connected to that is that due to people not giving their all to onsight something very often (or barely at all, except for onsighting things because they find them easy), I think that the onsight grade remains quite low in general, and people don't develop the skills needed for onsighting (confidence, quick decision making, decisiveness, willingness to plow on despite doubt, etc.).

I get the impression that people don't want to risk wasting energy going properly for the onsight, whereas I don't want to waste energy having a second go when there are other routes to try to onsight!

This makes sense when you're on your holibobs visiting new crags but for locals who have climbed everything at a crag within their onsight abilities (whatever they are) the only thing left is to try the harder climbs.

Of course. I redpoint on local crags but almost never on holiday. But there still seems a cultural difference in approach.

Absolutely. If I’m on a trip somewhere like Kalymnos and have a go on something that feels super hard for me, but doable, I have to weigh up the satisfaction I’ll get from climbing that against all the other climbing I’ll miss out on because I’m going back for repeated tries on a route. 

Three sessions on the same route was defo worthwhile enough to get my fist 7a as it was a bit of a benchmark. Maybe I’d do that many again for a 7b. Just haven’t found one that feels doable yet!

But I get the impression that visitors from other countries in Spain or Greece are rarely fighting for the onsight the way a good proportion of British climbers are; I think Blackmud is probably right that our culture tends to value the onsight more, probably transferred from our trad approach. 

Can’t say that it’s soemthing I’ve noticed, but then a lot of things go over my head. 

On the recent trip, a friend (currently working over there) thought the Americans didn't get worked up about the onsight like we do either.  

I don't think many here get "worked up about it".  There may be a few and I think it is a very few who take it more seriously than others.  I certainly don't, I simply find it more absorbing and satisfying than what I perceive as f ing about on a route. As far as belaying is concerned, that's even more boring

I think they're just better at it, so it doesn't look like a fight

My experience doesn't really gel with your impression at all, fwiw

I'm not convinced by that. Ondra makes it look like a fight and he is good at it. I doubt anyone onsighting at their limit makes it look easy.

In that there is less British focus on the onsight or more from Euros, or both?

It could be that our different perspectives are coloured by the grades we climb, the crags we visit or possibly the company we keep.

Really? I think there is huge variation from those who just aren't bothered as long as they are having a nice holiday to those who love staking the whole trip on the all or nothing all out onsight fight.

100% go to Santa Linya and no one is onsighting, visit a popular Costa Blanca crag and I guess most are.

I think even in the UK there’s more and more people redpointing.

From my formative trad beginnings it was onsight or nothing for me on sport as well. These days I do get some satisfaction from an onsight although not really any more than a flash and I get so much more enjoyment from redpointing something above my flash grade.

Onsighting probably leads to disappointment more often than elation, plus I’m just not very good at it 😂

Without doubt.

Definitely.

There wouldn't be the elation without all the failures. How many 9a's did Ondra attempt to onsight before he got one?

I don't really buy this idea that Brits are more uniquely focused on it than anyone else. 

It’s not the failures per se, rather when I under achieve, which I regularly do onsighting.

Onsighting means very little to me personally, but I see the appeal of course.

Yes, the failures need to be "good" failures!

I'd agree with that.  As said it probably varies depending on crag and style of climbing - in my recent trips to Chulilla I saw lots of of people from all over the world going full out for onsights right through the grades.  On the other side if you go to (e.g.) Malham or Kilnsey in the UK you will see the majority of people redpointing.

What I would agree with is that ancedotely it feels like the number of people who are  redpointing climbs at at all grades has increased through the years.  Not that this is a particularly new thing - I've certainly equally valued and enjoyed both onsight and redpoint climbing for decades.  

Ok, sounds like I may have got a skewed impression and I'm happy to hear it if it means onsighting is very much alive and well!