UKC

The topic of finger strength vs climbing grade comes up all the time, so why not try with some statistics?

I can do 2 full pull-ups with an open grip on what I assume is a standard doorframe. For climbing grades, let's say what you can generally get up in a session or so, for me about 6c.

How many can you do? If I get enough replies to this I'll make a graph and see how much of a link - if any - there is!

In reply to EspenK: Three ( prior to pulley injury), climbing 6b.

In reply to EspenK: start you off 3 at 6B

In reply to kyebrooks: OK i didn't start you off just a little too slow

In reply to EspenK:

Zero 5+ or VS

P.S. I hate pull ups.

In reply to davegs: They only seem go serve the purpose of f*cking one's elbows.

In reply to EspenK: 15ish depending on warm up and strength of the door frame... broken a few!
I boulder, whether that counts as climbing to you at about 7c

In reply to everybody: Cheers for the replies, guys! Assuming Font 7c, yes? Bouldering is definatly climbing - more so than sport if you ask me.. we still need more replies, tho, I see a lot of people look at the thread without answering. Even if you never train finger strength or hang on doorframes (I certainly don't) it's interesting to get an average.

Cheers, Spn

In reply to clare_bear: No-one likes a show-off

In reply to EspenK:

I think i'll screw up the stats; 4, f8a...

In reply to EspenK: once warmed up about 15-18 normally.

Climbing about sport 7b-c, bouldering font 7b+/c

In reply to EspenK: 2 pullups - sport climb 6a+

In reply to EspenK: I gave up, as last time I didn't pull myself up, I pulled one side of the house further down into the foundations. . . oh, I did a 6a the other day, get in there!

In reply to EspenK:

Six, climbing f7a+

In reply to EspenK: warmed up 12 is my record, climbing about F7a outside, bouldering V7/6 indoors and V7 outdoors, trad E3 5c

In reply to EspenK:

Zero, 7a/+ (sport).

In reply to Pagan:

That gives me hope!

None and Fr 6a onsight (just). Or Vs 4c trad onsight (again.. just...).

In reply to EspenK:

5 full pull ups , climbing around 6b sports , bouldering around 7b .

In reply to EspenK:
I'm unbelievably crap at doing this type of thing but i once witnessed Phil Davidson do 10 one arm pull ups on a door frame. Never seen it before and probably will never see it again.

In reply to Submit to Gravity:

they only seem to serve the purpose of f*cking ones door frames.

In reply to EspenK:

8, F7a

In reply to EspenK:

5 - 8 on a good day. F7b+ or font 7a ditto.

In reply to EspenK:

Open handed i'm not sure about as I find that just hurts my fingers by the edge putting pressure on my joints so I don't try it!

In a half-crimp 10 warmed up (probably could do more but I don't like to push hard on my fingers as I've only climbed 9 months so any time I've tried it I've kept comfortably within my limits), climbing 6c+ bouldering around v3'ish.

In reply to EspenK:
5, 6b/c. ish. pullup ability seems to fluctuate allot more than my climbing ability.

In reply to EspenK:

10 climb 6c.

In reply to EspenK:

2 - 3 pull ups (if the door frame lasts that long!), 6b - 6b+ sport.

In reply to EspenK:

Just to ruin any correlation, I used to be able to do 30 when my best bouldering grade was around font6c/+. I can now only do around 6, but my bouldering grade is around f7b/+.... there's more to climbing than just grab'n'pull.

In reply to EspenK: 2, 6a

In reply to EspenK: On my door frame, which is about the width of the final `segment` of my index finger, 5.
I haven't led for ages, just Bouldering- but I reckon I can do 6b/c on shorter routes.
I boulder v4ish.

In reply to EspenK: On my door frame around four on a cross beam or bar around thirty.

Just wondering what way people have their palms facing: towards them or away from them, maybe something to think about is the diffrent grips people are using?

In reply to EspenK:

10 6c

In reply to EspenK:

About 8 & ~bloc 8a

In reply to Cameron94:

Anyone doing it to improve climbing strength would be doing palms away. Palms towards you is called a chin up and works mainly the bicep. Away is a pull up and works mainly the triceps and upper back.

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose: I think beyond a certain number it just becomes a power stamina issue. Being able to do a million pull ups isn't going to help on a 3 move powerful problem. Where as being able to do 5 with 15kg attached might.

Likewise if you're leading a very delicate and technical f7b slab route then once again how many pull ups someone can do isn't going to help them.

In reply to Lord_ash2000:


Anyone capable of doing fingertip pullups aerobically is going to be the strongest climber in the world

In reply to EspenK: It will probably spoil your link but none and F6c+ at the moment.

In reply to EspenK: None f6a+/6b

In reply to EspenK:

Dunno, maybe half a dozen or something. And right now in a session, in the UK, I'd probably get a French 7a+ or something.

But then I know when I was climbing about 2 grades less well I could do 8 or more. And at the time I could do most, I'd imagine, I was struggling up 6a.

Which probably does nothing helpful for your plot!

In reply to Dan1984:

Point of order....you might want to look up the function of the triceps!

a

In reply to Removed User: Not sure what you mean... If you don't think pull up's work the tricep then try doing them to your limit and then tell me your arms aren't sore afterwards..

Maybe I emphasized them a bit too much, as it is more the lats etc that are worked, but the tri's still get a good workout.

In reply to EspenK: I actually really want to see this graph. I have a feeling that there will be a very vague correlation but loads of anomalies. Btw I climb F6a+ ish and can do 1

In reply to EspenK:
I guess its all about the feet. The people who can only do 1 or so but climb 7a upwards obviously use their feet! People who can do 10 but only climb at 6b don't. I can do 6ish and can climb up to 6c+/7a.... I need to use my feet more though!

In reply to EspenK: About 20, and about font 7C.

In reply to DavidRex:

Also I'd guess it is more likely that the lats are fatiguing before the forearms? I would have thought the forearm strength is way more important that strength in the lats.

Might be better to get a variety of stuff for the graph? Maybe the most weight you can hang on the bottom rail of the BM for 5 seconds. How long can you lock-off for. How many normal pull-ups can you do. What is the max grade you can ARC for 30 minutes on. What is the max grade you can 4x4 without failing.

In reply to leon: Quite possibly, but I'm only doing this for fun. I remember reading somewhere that the only factor that had a clear corrrelation with competition results was the distance between the climber's hips and the wall! I just want to see if there is a correlation and if so what the average is. If anybody wants more scientific results; go for it

In reply to EspenK:
There's a small study in the book performance rock climbing. He showed results from competition climbing where the top 5 ladies (i think) were all placed according to how quick they climed.

In reply to EspenK:
I think you'd find a stronger correlation between fingertip dead hang time and climbing grade.

In reply to EspenK: One pull-up, climb 7b+... I'll apologise for ruining your graph in advance.

In reply to EspenK:

There is obviously correlation in strength/power/power-endurance in pull ups to some degree on styles of routes that relate to the exercise e.g. Something that requires a lot of pulling without much rest on steep ground : P

I guess around 15-20 finger tip pull ups (Beastmaker small edges in full crimp position). Redpointing 8b+ and onsigthing/flash 8a/8a+.

In reply to EspenK: I used to do 3 sets of 8 - 10 when fully warmed up, regularly climbing 6a+/b and HVS. My friends used to comment that I had much more strength than technique and ability!

In reply to EspenK:

None.
Low/mid F7s.

jk

In reply to EspenK: Probably about 5 or 6.

I climb around font7a/7b territory.

In reply to EspenK:

I've always been able to do quite a lot (relatively speaking). But it doesn't correlate that well with climbing grade. Two other finger edge measures are more useful for measuring where I'm at compared to where I've been at in the past. How this might compare one individual with another I'm not so sure:

1. How fast does max two-handed fingertip pullup capability fall off if I do a set, rest for a minute, get back on and do another set, rest for another minute, get back on and do another set etc. I'm not sure if this is a good way to train power endurance, but I've always found it's a reasonable measure of my personal level. So, when unfit, I could usually do a good first set total, but the numbers attained thereafter would fall off dramatically.

2. On a given edge, what is the least assistance needed to hold body weight one handed? - a measure of max strength. This is a reliable guide to my personal bouldering ability, on problems requiring finger strength at any rate.

In reply to EspenK: About 7 or 8, f6c, E15c, font 6c

In reply to EspenK: Most I've managed is 5 so far. Climbing F5c tops.

Therefore I know it's my footwork that lets me down :P

In reply to EspenK:
Climb about 6b sport on an average - good day (I don't redpoint, best onsight is 6c+)

Can probably do about 2 pullups on a doorframe which is about the same number of pull-ups I can do on a bar. I'm rubbish at pullups!
That said I did manage a second joint pullup on a flat edge last week while kayaking which got me+bouyancy aid+spraydeck+ dagger mamba 8.5 (old heavy version) out of the water and locked off for 5 seconds, I've not managed that without a boat before

In reply to EspenK:

Zero. I could do about two in a crimp grip, I expect. I can get up 6c+ in a session as a rule.

jcm

In reply to EspenK: 2 openhanded, palms facing away f6b/f6b+

In reply to Dan1984: Thats what i was thinking but you get some funny stuff on here!
When i train for routes its palms out but for bouldering i do it palms in.
Must just be me :L

In reply to EspenK: 10 pulls ups, get up about 7a+ in a session.

In reply to EspenK:
3, palms away, no warm up. V3/4, F6b+

In reply to EspenK:
0, 6b

In reply to EspenK: 15, 7a+ sport, 7B/+ boulders.

In reply to EspenK:

Can usually manage around 8-10, but have only led F6b indoors, F6b+ outside.

Chris

In reply to Chris Ellyatt: I can manage 4 but then im another boulder about v4-5 (F6b/c ish)

In reply to EspenK:

When a bit younger,I could grab my own shirt collar and lift myself off the ground!

In reply to climbing:

No; that was me

In reply to EspenK: When I was a lad I used to spend most of my time hanging from doorframes and climbing at Pex Hill and had very strong fingers but I cant remember how many fingertip pullups I could manage. I could do 30 standard pullups, five one arm pullups and two one arm/two finger pullups on a bar but never managed my holy grail of a one arm/one finger pullup a la John Gill.

Just tried doorframe pullups and managed five with no finger training at all. Don't know current climbing grade but have bouldered up to V5 in the last year.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Could you run the half hour in 10mins?

Not sure there is any relation. I can do sets of 12 on my first two fingers of both arms and sets of maybe 5 of my first finger of both hands. 6b indoors. I do however use my upper body to tackle most things.

In reply to EspenK:
By door frame do we mean the architrave? If so, in order to not rip the top bit off I have to do wide armed pullups with my fingers very nearly above the uprights. As such they're harder than if I can do them on someone elses which may have more than brad nails holding it up.

Anyway, i can do about 5 before my missus tells me off, on bars I can do more and campussing i can get to the top and back down alternating 1-2-3-4 etc

I only boulder and would be at about v4 and have useless feet

In reply to Milesy:

You can do sets of 5 mono first-joint pullups but climb 6b? UK 6b?

Look down. You see the things on the ends of your legs...

jk

f6b sorry. I managed to second up 6a uk though.

I can do pull ups fine but my strength gives up with extended holding. Lots of technique issues I imagine. Maybe need to do dead hangs as well.

In reply to EspenK:

None, I have led/lead 7a and E5.
Climbing is not just about strength.
How do you measure technique/

In reply to Milesy:


I suspect deadhangs are the last thing you need to do! I wasn't joking about your feet, it sounds like you have massive grade gains very easily accessible!

jk

In reply to EspenK: None, F6a+ at the wall, F5 outdoors, VS trad HVS on a good day.

In reply to jkarran: I would have thought that with that strength he could easily be climbing 8a!

In reply to EspenK:
door frames are different depths this is more important about how many pull ups a person can do

In reply to jkarran:

I would like to improve but limited by my leading grade outdoors which is way behind what I am physically capable of (just pushing HVS just now). I do not fancy sport but I am trying to push myself at the wall but as I said I literally pulling myself from top to bottom with my upper body.

I would love to get better technique and structure to my training and I wouldn't go to the gym and do arm curls the full time so why do I climb the same way up and down for the full time I am there.

On the plus side I am searching the web for building suggestions for a overhanging wall in my new garage for training.

In reply to EspenK:

1 - vs / 6a / III

In reply to Dan1984:

Yes, you are not wrong that they do get some exercise during pull ups. One of the heads of triceps attaches to the shoulder blade and aids in getting the body closer to the arm or vice versa and in stopping the shoulder from dislocating. It is as you say more the lats that are the workhorse of the pull up (along with the flexors of the elbow and fingers). Really what I was getting at was that the principal function of the triceps is to straighten the elbow.

I do make an effort to do pull ups to exhaustion for a number of sets or in pyramids (depending on motivation levels!) but if the same effort is applied to triceps extensions/bench press/triceps dips the effect on the triceps is a very different one.

Anyway, sorry, this has drifted from the point of the thread. Will be interested to hear the results.

a

In reply to Dan1984:

its been a while since I was a sports coach, so what with evolution and all... but up until the mid-1990's the triceps were mostly responsible for straightening one's arms. In my humble opinion the reason one's arms are sore after doing a session of pull ups will be due to the "negative" portion of a pull up i.e. the controlled lowering of the body.

In reply to Milesy:

if you're not sure whether there's any correlation between pull up strength and climbing ability (and I recognise many other factors DO come into play), and you state how quickly you lose your strength, just imagine how challenged other climbers are when their strength fails but didn't begin the climb with your basic strength. You could easily be climbing high 7's with a different attitude towards what is an obvious advantage, and some focus on improving your footwork. Good luck, I'm jealous...

In reply to EspenK: hey espen i did 200 this morning and still lag behind u lol

In reply to EspenK: normally after a warmup I can do about 15-20, but I use a hangboard and not doorframes(broke too many!). I can normally climb at about 7b/c, and boulder at V10. Hope this helps

In reply to EspenK:

just did 4 door-frame pull ups I would be disappointed with myself if I didnt get up a french 6a+ lead on plastic can do some 6bs.

In reply to EspenK: About 10, onsight F7a just, boulder about V6

In reply to EspenK:

Started at 8, then 10 then did 12 but crimped with thumb. Edge was too painfull and glossy to do open handed. Would expect to get up 7b+ and Font7A in a session outdoors.

In reply to EspenK:

I can just about manage 1 and climb 6a+b but more importantly, I think you have enough information for a graph now which I would like to see!

In reply to EspenK:

PS. I reckon your graph will have two 'hills', if you have grade on the x axis and number of pull ups on the y.

Reason for this is poor climbers are week, people then get better once they get a bit of strength. People then get weaker or plateau a bit to get the technique to climb upper 7s, then to get really good you need strength again.

In reply to EspenK: would like to see this graph also represent body weight vs pull up number.
I weigh in at 96kg's
half crimp on a 20mm deep fingerboard edge (i pulled the door frame off last time) 2 chins
Climbing grade sport 6a+-6b on a good day ; trad VS-HVS 4c-5b depending on how cruxy the route is or how sustained

In reply to EspenK: 10 pull ups (from cold). climb around 6c

In reply to WILLS: would like to see this graph also represent body weight vs pull up number.


Why? Fingertip pull-ups are a power-to-weight exercise - total mass is incidental.