UKC

... there should be one, so we can all sit round a virtual fire, spitting into it, reminiscing about the old days - hemp waist bands, Rocksport, and the BMC just the name of some obscure organisation that published a leaflet called Safety in Mountains.

Posts only allowed from people who were climbing in 1970 (that excludes all women apart from Angela, obviously) but deprived youngsters will be welcome to watch and wonder...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Count me in.


Chris

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Sounds like a great idea, but can the 1970 eligibility date roll forward each year to give us "youngsters" something to aspire to in our dotage?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I thought they were all down at Stoney.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Phew. Made it by a year.
I'm now trying to remember the name of the (quite thick) paperback book that we learned to climb from..... I can't remember whether there was a section covering those new-fangled front point things, but there was definitely a section about nailed boots.
And, of course, we mostly learnt to climb by going out to do it - Irby Quarry was our main local crag and we were blessed with some walls made of sandstone blocks that were good for getting finger strength during school lunchtimes.

In reply to pneame: Blackshaw. My first copy (with the yellow cover) fell aprt, I read it so much. I've tracked two down in charity shops since, one to read, and one to pass on to my grandchildren!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

What a brilliant book!though have you seen the picture of the bong in it,they were obviusly so new that they couldnt get hold of one and had to make a homemade copy of one.Ithink I qualify as an Old Fart.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

My Blackshaw was a school prize - 5th Form Top Swot or something line that. I believe it was Rupert Hart-Davis who presented it to me!


Chris

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
That's it. Thanks. There's one available at Chessler books....

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I had two copies but one has gone missing. I still have the signed one ! My dad used to work with him.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

You forgot to mention FEB Kletts but include me in all the same...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Cue blanchie in Derby mountain centre buying a Troll 'climbers belt', separate leg loops and a pair of Croft B3's. Yep, I'm in the 'club' I think.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: As somebody who first ascended Aran Fawddwy at the age of seven(in specially hobnailed SHOES) and climbed every month at Swanage in the late sixties I claim life membership.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I think it might be my Desert Island book choice. I practically memorised it.

Sorry, I miss your entry qualifications by 6 years, so I'm still aspiring to full enlightment!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I don't think nostalgia is as good now as it was 40 years ago

... and I was climbing in the 70's... trees if you must know!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I remember klets, hemp rope, vibrams, molecord breeches and red socks, Whymper and Meade tents, wooden shafted ice axes and Ventile jackets so count me in!

In reply to Trangia:

And the tunnel entrance Blacks mountain tent

In reply to Trangia:

Don't forget the Whymper and Meade, and Itisa, and Good companions, and Bukta kestrel and hawk tents.

Then you got hand made boots at Robert Lawries, great shop.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: <pulls up chair by fire to watch and wonder> ooh old people

In reply to Trangia:

Which I think was Ventile also? At least the advertising suggested that you didn't need a flysheet. So we didn't have one.

It leaked.

Like a sieve.
On my first camping trip ever - below Tryfan

We repaired to Williams barn outside Capel Curig.

I developed an early cynicism about advertising claims as a result and was thankful that I was too cheap (and poor) to actually buy a tent myself.

<spits into fire>

In reply to sutty:
>

And it was like walking into a private house. If I remember you had to ring the door bell.

In reply to pneame:

A blackshaw for sale here if it has not gone;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=424873&v=1

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I remember waist belays, tying on with a bowline round the waist, tweed breeches, Chouinard ice hammers, wooden ice axes, Mountain Craft, Rocksport, Wendy's cafe, playing darts with Joe Brown in the Padarn, The Stoney Stallions presentation to a young lady at the Moon closing do, aiding routes at Millstone and Ravenstor, Snells Field, The Bar National in Chamonix, the days when climbing VS made you an advanced climber and climbing extreme made you a star or a liar. I remember EWD's claims that a route of his would never be repeated and another climbers claim to have climbed stuff at Gogarth that no one else could get up.

I claim honorary membership but only on the basis that all members should still be active climbers.

Al

In reply to Trangia:

And not a helmet in sight.

I've still got my wooden shafted axe.

In reply to pneame:

The Mountain tent in ventile was off white, the canvas one was orange, and needed a flysheet in rain as it was so small you touched the sides. The Arctic Guinea was six inches wider but we slept 3 in it regularly with the girl in the middle, but turned the other way like sardines.

In reply to mypyrex: Remember the Compton helmets?

Al

In reply to sutty: Lawries was great but quite intimidating. I remember going to look for something more comfortable than Super RD's. I was met by a granny in a pinny rather than a gnarly alpinist.

In reply to sutty:

Ah. Canvas then. That explains it.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: All the old farts online on a Saturday night rather than being out on the lash! Must be my bedtime soon.

In reply to earlsdonhammer:

I would not be here if the cat was not sick. Was supposed to be at old farts reunion at Stoney. Am gutted.;-(

In reply to tradlad: Yes, didn't they come in in the seventies?

In reply to mypyrex:

I used to come in the seventies!

In reply to tradlad:

i smashed a compton helmet, wearing it. upside down pendulum into an arete.

In reply to idc:

The original Compton helmets were faulty. someone sat on theirs on top of their sack and it cracked so around 300 went back for exchange according to Pete who worked in the shop.

In reply to tradlad:

first pair of eb's £6

the introduction of the whillans harness, my dreams of a troll belt went out of the window.

chouinard climbaxe - possibly the worst piece of kit they ever made - i've still got it.

staggering backwards through campsites throwing up

the music remember the music!

and how little gear we carried, look at those pics in hard rock.

but in reply to the op, an old farts forum ?, no way. I climb better now, and enjoy it more, than ever before.

In reply to Trangia:

and the Blacks Icelandic sleeping bag.

In reply to idc:
First pair of Hawkin's Masters £4 12s 6d

In reply to RichardMc:
In reply to idc:
First pair of Hawkin's Masters £4 12s 6d

First shag..packet of wine gums!!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Sounds fascinating, though I will give the watching and wondering a miss on account I suspect it will smell of wee and boiled cabbage.

In reply to Paul F:

And the Blacks Oregon tent. Despite hours, maybe months, practising erecting it in the back garden I never got it right.

In reply to tradlad:

I can confirm that Compton helmets do not fit in Monolith Chimney. They did ,however, give one very strong neck muscles.

In reply to Horse:

lol, quite a few were but still pulling hard and some good ticks getting done. Come down tomorrow.

J

In reply to Postmanpat: ' the Blacks Oregon tent' Was that the one without a groundsheet? On the basis that it would 'last longer'? In the same way that car without an engine would 'last longer'?

Ah, Blacks... Managed to go from being everywhere to nowhere at the same time as their target market went from being nowhere to everywhere,

In reply to Paul F:
>

I re-discovered mine in the depths of the attic last year. It stank!! So I ditched it, although not without a feeling of remorse.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

And remember the A5 to N Wales? No M6, no M56. The M1 had just been built but stopped at Rugby.

Stopped at Greasy Lil's near Cannock for anything with chips. Great portions. Outside loos with no lights - probably a good thing too because it was best not to know what you were standing in.

In reply to Trangia:

Was that the "Hollies"? Is it still there?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: You'll have to give Alex (only a hill) an honoury membership.

In reply to Postmanpat:

Jesus , the Hollies, its still there!

http://www.transportcafe.co.uk/a5cafe1.html

In reply to Postmanpat:

The Hill Street Blues accompaniment is a bit startling and random!

In reply to Postmanpat:

That's the place! We always called it Greasy Lil's.

I remember the menu which stated:-

Cod (fish) and chips 7/6d

Haddock (fish) and chips 6/-

Sausages and chips 5/6d

The "fish" in brackets was to asssist travellers not familiar with subtle differences in the ingredients. The chips were good.

Sliced bread with lashings of marge and a half pint of tea was included in the price.

In reply to Trangia: I think I've been stuck hitchhiking at every junction on the A5 between Shrewsbury and Capel. It was always a point of honour to be absolutely skint on the way back (and that means no cash, credit cards hadn't been invented.) Came back once with some money, got stuck at Llangollen, met up with some other hitch hikers so we spent our last pennies on a carry out, camped in a field, lit a fire and cooked a tin of beans in it. Honour was restored.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: some of us were even climbing in the early 60,s Hawkins Walkins boots ,and tight black plimsolls ,had a pair of breeches made out of moleskin thought i was the bees knees !! Alan Austin at Almscliff awesome..Paul Ross when he was the bad boy,etc .etc

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Remember the BMC Magazine? Very professional and nice and compact like a booklet, none of this A4 stuffed with adverts. No articles on blodering or sport (what the hell's that?). Just good old trad articles and mountaineering, and a raging debate about the advantages of tricounis over the new fangled "Commando" soles.

Grades were simple :- Easy, Diff, V Diff, Severe and Very Severe. The latter contained some nasty suprises and a new grade "Extreme" was being muted.

For sheer winter warmth a pure wool Gurernsey sweater took the biscuit, and Kendal mint cake was the stuff for the inner man.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Started in 69, must have been keen it was a 3hr car journey (pre motorway) from Hull to Stanage, Yorkshire Grit, the Lakes and Wales was 6hrs plus.

Parba H section nuts, Troll nuts brass hexagonal , No 4 and No 9 two hole wedges

The recall of Hiatt angle pegs by Blacks

AGV Eiger helmet

The launch of Clog chrome moly pegs starting at 8s 9d and 9 bob ,

300ft of Viking No 2 ( half red, half white) used as doubles.

Ron James 30s selective guide for Wales

Mk 1 Gollies at £5 19s 6d

3 Mountain Magazine covers were also the fronts of shop catalogues - which issues , which shops ?

Brown Best rucsacs

Brown Best and Karrimor ( was the original spelling Karrimore ?) sold a very similar sack to each other one was the Dru , the other was the Aguille.

Foreign expensive stuff Erve and Fairy Down sleeping bags ( used by you know who), Millet Rucksacks.

The Tarbuck knot

The Exceptionally Severe grade

The original Mountain Equipment down gear, who bought Redline duvets ?

20 of you at a club meet on a sunday with one guidebook between you.

and so much more.

In reply to victorclimber:

Ah Hawkins walking boots.I've got a photo of me doing Tennis Shoe in them and wearing breeches I'd sewn myself from an old pair of corduroys,

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

It's a great idea, only spoiled by the virtual odour of stale urine. Oh god, it's not virtual - it's me!



Steve

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Nice one Rob - a pity I actually qualify - tho' better than at least one of the alternatives. Still - only just got to this as I was out on the hill for a few days - one of the benefits of that greater maturity (wee and cabbage notwithstanding - are Rushby's [parents married?)

In reply to JonRoger:

At the risk of being called a wet(and urine scented) blanket, I would like to remind people on this thread that growing old, like skin colour and ( so I've been told repeatedly) sexual proclivity is somethng over which we have no control and therefore is not an appropriate butt for boorish jokes.

In reply to pneame:

Cow and Calf for me, although I'm talking 80's not 70's. Still no walls really (nothing like the 3 a town now neway).

As you say, we mostly just turned up and got on with it. Occasionally someone brought a rope and maybe some pieces of hardware...but none of us really knew what to do with it.

I stopped in 1987 following a bad fall at Malham, when I started again last November by taking no.1 son to Leeds Wall for lessons, I refused for a while to tell him the sort of things we got up to. Once he knew a bit and I told him the stories, you could see the look of incredulity on his face...but it was a different world then, accidents were almost accpeted as part of the game.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Somebody mention "Bukta kestrel" 1965 camping by Llyn Bochlwyd a whole 10 days without rain. Ah seems like yesterday! colin

In reply to CJBar:

Whillans tent in Chamonix 1961 was a Bukta Kestrel, he and Bonington shared it so their may be some pis in Bonington's archives. No sewn in groundsheets those days, or flysheets. I had a bivi sheet for two weeks, shared with Clough.

In reply to sutty:

Does that make him an old fart?

In reply to Postmanpat:

Absolutely correct. I had to take mine off to get into and climb the chimney.

Some of the key features of starting to climb in late 1966:

Hemp waistlines
Hiatt D screw krabs
Cassin krabs
Tape slings tied with a tape knot (which came undone very easily)
No 9 perlon slings tied with a figure of 8.
Needlecord breeches
Woollen shirts
Oiled Norwegian sweaters (that almost should be top of the list)
Black's Good Companion tent
Compton helmet
Waist belays
Masters climbing boots (absolutely excruciatingly uncomfortable, and with very unsticky rubber)
The very first MOACs
A Viking No4 120 white nylon cable-laid rope.
The Tarbuck knot
Blackshaw's book (BTW, I was fortunate enough to meet him in person about three years ago at Kendal, and tell him just how much his book had meant to me.)
Don Roscoe's guide Llanberis North, plus the two Ogwen ones by Moulam

PS. Almost everyone had more or less the same gear, with very little variation, because there was very little else available.

In reply to sutty: Lets hear it for Parba "H" chocks !

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Stubai peg hammers, fig8 descenders, belay gloves, Gollies, steel krabs, very short but very stretchy ropes, Hiebler prussik clamps (still have them), Whillans Alpiniste sac, Troll Mk3 waistbelts, jeans. Vango Mk2 tent, still have that too. "Exceptionally Severe" grade. I have the original Cloggy Guide (green spine) with page after page stuffed with routes of that quality.

In reply to unclesamsauntibess: Forgot Ron James's book "Rock Climbing in Wales" - 200 selected routes. Long thin hardbacked format - shaped to fit in the back pocket of your jeans I think? Some excellent photos, one of some dude in knee britches on the edge of nothing on White Slab - inspired me for years did that one.

My copy sports a date stamp of 17.9.70 from XXXXXXXX City Libraries, publication date was 1970, I reckon it's a bit overdue......

In reply to unclesamsauntibess: Forgot something else (you see, I definitely qualify, my memory is going) - Humphrey's (Camping) Barn, Was that in Nant Peris?

In reply to unclesamsauntibess:

Yes, it was Humphrey's. Come to think of it Wendy's Cafe in Llanberis has only been mentioned once, and the cafe at Stoney Middleton not at all!

In reply to unclesamsauntibess:
If you look at the gradings in Ron James they are still remarkably accurate. He didn't like giving ES so things got bunched up below that but if you intepret HVS- as HVS, HVS+ as E1, ES- as E2 and ES as E3 (I think thats's about right) they still look very sensible.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Humphrey owned the shop just down from the Vaynol as well if I recall. I was telling somebody last week but can't for the life of me remember if it was a post office as well.

Al

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Klets,direct tie-on with bowline knot, moleskin breeches, JB woolly hat - perhaps we were behind the times at Helsby?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I remember at the age of 14 on school trip to North Wales being taken up Original Route on Idwal Slabs by our science master and my mate pete who had read all the books,you know The White Spider etc had made a set of etriers out of sash cord and old tv ariel,got out a lump hammer he had knicked from his Dads shed and proceeded to bang in his prize possesion a real Piton he had bought from Blacks in Bristol(behind the Colston Hall)Round the corner came "real" climbers you know university types all beards and corduroy,we were in ice blue jeans and donkey jackets and the look of absolute horror on their faces at the desacration of "their" precious piece of rock was priceless!

In reply to alan edmonds:

We only rarely came across anyone using Klets. On South-East sandstone we always tied on directly with a bowline, but in the mountains used a Tarbuck Knot with a hemp waistline, exactly as instructed in Blackshaw's book. I seem to remember that my second pair of breeches, after my originals had worn through, were moleskins, and quite a lot warmer. Again, for some reason I don't remember having a JB balaclava until about 1969 or 70.

In reply to alan edmonds:

Further note: I always wore jeans to climb in on SE sandstone, and also in Snowdonia and the Lakes between 1970 and 75 (breeches were absolutely OUT then). But I still wore breeches in the Alps.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
But I still wore breeches in the Alps.

Lederhosen??

In reply to Padraig:

No, from 66-69, needlecord, and from 70-75, 'moleskin' (which was just a type of very densely woven cloth). The point about breeches they were good to climb in, giving you huge freedom of movement, protected the knees, acted as kind of long shorts in hot weather etc. The downside was that the socks never quite seemed to reach the knees properly, and there was quite a lot of faffing around with gaiters.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


God, was there ever so much faff as winding that hemp waistline around you, again and again? Binned the Tarbuck take on climbing life and reverted to a bowline pretty quickly.



Moleskin breeks! Heavy as sin and they stank to high heaven (especially when wet, which, in Ireland, they usually were.) Binned them too and reverted to jeans.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward: I've still got my moleskin breeches upstairs in a box, I've no idea why but there you are.

Ian Smith

In reply to Mick Ward:

I absolutely loved that ritual, and could get it on slightly faster than the average climbing harness I think!

>Binned the Tarbuck take on climbing life and reverted to a bowline pretty quickly.

I really got to like the Tarbuck too. Made for very easy belaying (i.e adjustment thereof).

As soon as we got a double rope (1969), though, that was all over, and we used figure or 8s to tie in.


Yes, ditto for rock climbing (see above). And yes, they were terrible in the wet, when they got really heavy and clung to you. But of course you couldn't wear jeans in the Alps.

In reply to S11:

Weird thing is I can never remember throwing this stuff away, but it all goes ...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Not sure if I qualify. i wasn't climbing per se but we had a pretty good cub leader that used to take us into the simonside hills and got us scrambling about on some of the shorter routes. Didn't start climbing proper until 72.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I only used a Tarbuck Knot once - I tied it round my waist!

1) it was a slip knot,

2) it came undone before I topped out.

It was back to the Bowline!


Chris

In reply to graeme jackson:

72 is a grand age to start. Inspirational really.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

. . . why didn't anyone tell me that? And all those patches I put on. What a waste!

In reply to HB1:

I remember climbing "Unclimbed Wall" at Harrisons in old flaired jeans in 1980. I couldn't see my feet and had to shake the jeans each time I placed them!

In reply to Trangia:

Also the tightness of the jeans round your knees (even on the flared ones) meant you had to tweak the jeans just above the knee before almost every move - quite hairy when leading in the mountains. Also, you used the sides of the flares to clean your boots on, and higher up, to wipe your hands on, pre-chalk.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Anyone remember the Llanberis Pass Guide (before Llanberis North) - was it Harding or Moseley. Anyway we called it 'the bumper fun book' - and what fun it was to tick the routes !

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I have a terrible feeling that I used to climb in the Avon Gorge in 'moleskin' breeches (bought from Arvons in Bethesda) and a thick wooly shirt - even when the sun was shining and it was cracking flags, and you couldn't get further from a mountain if you tried.

We then heard about Rouse climbing in loons, so I got a pair of purple velvet ones and climbed in those for a while. I also had a pair of white jeans, that was so I could carry my Stubai peg hammer in my back pocket.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I remember Arvons in Bethesda. Wasn't it run by a chap called Dave. We used to stay at an ATC hut behind the garage near the football ground. We used to drink in the Douglas Arms. Mrs Davies took my order for a round and then said "Three pounds eighteen and six please". When I asked what it was in real money she very promptly and indignantly(and rightly) said "That IS real money"

I also used to wear breeches(still got a pair) and a woolly lumberjack shirt.

In reply to pneame:

Yes, that tradition with shirts survived for many years, and made a lot of sense before modern synthetic materials and fleece etc. ... BTW, can you remember that original, vastly overrated Helly Hansen fleece, that went into piles and mothballs after about a year ??? It was virtually uniform wear for most climbers throughout the mid-70s, however.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Yeah I was never impressed with that so was a rare exception and didn't buy a pile jacket for about 20 years as a result! I usually used an oiled cloth jacket over one of the above mentioned oiled wool sweaters. Pretty impervious combination.

If it was really vile, a Helly Hansen cag went over that. Didn't breath at all, but the condensation ran between the cag and the oiled cotton.

Mostly.

Helly Hansen really made awful gear, thinking about it. But there wasn't much good by todays standards!

In reply to S11:


Bless you, Ian. Why do we keep stuff? Does it link us to the past and we just don't want to let go? If you ever do let go of them, please find them a good home.

Mick

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


< Coughs discreetly >

"Das bluejeans!" North Face of the Matterhorn, circa 1960...

Mick

In reply to mypyrex: They were still dealing in £sd in the Douglas Arms in the late 80s, to my certain knowledge.

In reply to graeme jackson: good on you Graeme,took my mate climbing for the first time when he was 72,first route was Apple Arete vs 4c I think,not very elegant but he was so strong he got up it fairly easy..

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: can you remember Keswick back when ..we used to see : Proper : !! climbers wearing down jackets with tape on them,even in summer .How I wanted one..

In reply to victorclimber:

What a brilliant first route!

Mick

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Can you remember the very attractive young lady in the adverts for Helly Hansen fleeces that used to appear on the back cover of Climber & Rambler magazine.

In reply to victorclimber and dave garnett.

I meant 1972 but I'm sure you knew that. I'm only as old as my profile says

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Moac Gollies on the feet, yes and they'll be a moac and mini moac there. What other nuts though? Harness - quite correct... What about that descendeur - obscurely implicated in Tom Patey's accident? And there's a couple of karabiners that should have been museum pieces, they were always so dangerous...

In reply to Postmanpat: Pinnacle rucsac! How come I used to be able to get all the gear needed for a weekend's climbing and camping in one of those, and nowadays need a car to transport all the stuff?!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I can't remember who made those brass-coloured spindly figure of eight descendeurs, but they were very widely used. I replaced mine by one of those fatter alloy ones (Clog?)

Some of the krabs look like Stubais.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I think the bent wire one was a Blacks one, a cheap version of the better made brass ones (Fisher?) and superceded by the Clog.

I think some of those krabs are lightweight Pierre Allains, which had no lip on the gate so were known to have opened under body weight alone (though not by me at the time.)

And some of those nuts were single holed Troll spuds, which although they weren't much good definitely saved my life on Great Slab when my mate fell off a year or two later.

In reply to blanchie14c:

Was your first rope your umbilical cord?

The criteria to be in the "Old f*rts forum" is climbing in 1970 and you're 40 years old...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Ah, yes, the brass one definitely was made by Fisher.

In reply to deepstar: There was also a picture of a rather fetching young lady wrapped in a rope or was that a bit later. That's the other qualification for membership, a lapsing memory.

Al

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Just heard that I'm the oldest one on my EBC Trek next month. I think that definitely makes me an old fart.

In reply to tradlad: about the same time I think. I'll try and find it and scan it in later......

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I have just read all of the posts, it's brilliant, the best post that's been on her for ages.
I have a Whillans sac, Troll belay belt, which seems to have shrunk a little over the years, still got and us a Moac, my first pair of rock boots were a pair of Masters, then EB's, I still use my Scarpa cragrats, carn't wear the buggers out(love them) I have a pair of B3's hardly used. My first tent was a Good companions majors I think it cost about £30 at the time, My latest tent is a vango Mk3 and that must be 30 yeatrs old ,the list is endless.
Happy days.

In reply to johnwright:

Mine's a Vango Zephyr - 28 years

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Forgot to mention one bit of equipment I've had even before I took up climbing; in fact I've had it since birth ;0)

Can you remember the very attractive young lady in the adverts for Helly Hansen fleeces that used to appear on the back cover of Climber & Rambler magazine.



Surely, it was for Javelin jackets.... not that I rememeber attractive young ladies!

I still have copies of such smutty publications from the early days. ...things like crags No 1....the one which was like a tabloid newspaper size.

In reply to earlsdonhammer:


With the pullout photo of Big Ron on L'Horla (taken by Al?), with the caption 'Remember Last Summer'.

Mick

In reply to johnwright:

If anyone's interested I have an absolutely mint pair of Hawkins GTH boots needing a home. They can't have been used at all.

Unfortunately, I can't work out what size they are (though I know it's less than 11)

Immensely stiff and with proper ankle protection.

Come on - give the crag a chance.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
For placing bolts?

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

BB Snowcap, half the KMC bought them as good but I gave mine away as never got on with it and went back to the Aiguille. Still have a BB sack of some sort upstairs, along with a Bonnatti day sack.

Cragrat rock shoes, only ones I can use now, BrianT says they are good resoled with sticky rubber.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I've reported you lot to the mods for having an interesting thread about climbing in The Pub!

In reply to fimm:

Wow! That was quick...! Thanks mods!

In reply to fimm: I had that poster in my room at university, I can remember my then girlfriend commenting on it. She - ahem - compared my physique with that of Big Ron. Not favourably. 'I didn't even know you could HAVE muscles there' was one comment I remember.

The 'attractive young lady' modelling Edelrid rope by having it draped around her presumably naked body was Leo Dickinson's then girlfriend, later wife. You can still recognize her face(!) in the pictures in Tremadog cafe.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Snap. Ken Wilson once mistook me for ron fawcett. Well, actually he said "I've never met ron fawcett, for all I know he (me) could be ron fawcett"

Guess I'm too young (doesn't seem to happen often anymore) as I didn't start climbing till (I think) 1973, although I was hill walking in 1970. That said, most of the gear being talked about was still in use when I started. We recently cleared my parents house, and found quite a few bits of memorabilia in the loft - a decaying Blacks Icelandic sleeping bag, a Joe Brown expandable rucksac (was it really called that ?); an old pair of RD super guides, a Henri Lloyd waterproof (once almost dayglo orange)...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Good grief this is like being trapped in a Fell and Rock hut on a rainy morning after the night before. Although the 1970 date would only be for the FRCC Youth Section obviously

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
No mention yet of woven rope slings where the ends were plaited into each other rather than being tied. Each one used to cost a full week's paper round money so I had to walk five miles to Almscliffe to use it and then five miles back as I could not afford a sling and a bus fare.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, whaa..! (wakes up from loud dozing, farts..)... I say, does anyone recall a chap called John Conn, used to frequent Stanage around 1970, usually surrounded by youngsters hanging on his every wise word?
What the devil happened to him?

In reply to Fredt: I knew John. Stocky build. I think he was a refuse collector or something like that.

Al

In reply to Tom Valentine:
My first new hillwalking boots (I'd had several pairs of hand me downs by then) were a pair of Hawkins 'The Scafell'. Best boots I ever had. Very comfortable until halfway across the lyke wake walk sometime in the mid 70's when the screws started poking through the insole.

In reply to Fredt:

John was a great bloke. Didn't know him in the 70s but in the 80s he spent a lot of time hanging around Stoney and he was always good to talk to.

It would have been great to get him back there for last week's get-together.

<trivia>
John held Johnny Dawes' ropes on the 2nd ascent of Beau Geste.
</trivia>

Just realised I only started climbing in 1980 so can't post here for ten years. DOH.

Phil

Phil

In reply to Wiley Coyote: forgot all about the woven slings ,must be an age thing,Kletterschue theres another name from the past..climbing at the wainstones in the snow because thats what I thought everyone did,cutting steps ,leather gloves for the hands and the frost nip afterwards....

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Count me in

Early climbing memories include

Second hand galibier PA's - the red and black ones
Viking 100' no3 hawser laid rope
Cassin D Steel Screwgates
Galibier Saussois boots
the 1964 Northumberland guide (the thin one with the cardboard cover)

Climbing aid routes on Northumberland sandstone

The Edelrid rope girl advert


I could go on .........

Yep -- I'm definitely and old fart!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

The series of adverts had progressively less and less of the rope strategically draped around her body, until finally nothing was left to the imagination! -- I've probably still got the magazine (Mountain or Rocksport) in a box in the loft.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Like you, I have boxes of early editions of Climber and Rambler, Mountain and Rocksport in the attic. So maybe I should scan that advert some time?...

Some other details: my first proper hill walking boots were Hawkins' Scafells, and the first proper mountain boots, Terray? Fitzroys. First guidebook: Ted Pyatt's South-East Sandstone (1963).

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I worked at Strensham services one summer (£7.19/6 a week for a 6 day week) and one of the first things I bought were - Terray Fitzroys, £12 I think, from Frank Davies in Brum. Trouble is, I bought them too small and as I couldn't afford to replace them they crippled me for the next four years.

I also had a pair of red and black PAs inherited from my brother, they were practically rigid but I thought they were great! I think I led Vector in them, certainly did White Slab and a few others.

The other gear in my photo was hand knotted tape slings, the lurid puce 'Tiger's web' and (I think) Troll Supertape. And also, of course, it's not a chalk bag dangling from my harness, it's a pair of gardening gloves, highly advisable if you relied on a waist belay.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

My Fitzroy's were also rather tight (too narrow for my foot).

I'd forgotten that pink/puce tape was called Tiger's Web.

Yes, we used Woolworth's leather gardening gloves in 1970 - before that, just bare hands.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Brighams Scafell boots were what I really wanted when I started but at £7.50 fully nailed they were beyond my pocket, it was two months pocket money as an apprentice.

Nobody mentioned Stables boot shop in Ambleside where the Gimmer boot ruled the roost of walking and easy climbing boots.

Seeing the checked shirts, there is a MOAC one still around somewhere. Fat chance of ever getting in it again.

Anyone mentioned XWD karabiners, 4/6 each but soon redundant apart from aid routes after one was found to open with a load of 390 lbs!!

In reply to sutty: They were before my time, I used Hiatt steel krabs, strong enough but 4oz each and they had gates so sharp you cut your fingers on them.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I did the Lyke Wake Walk in my Fitzroys 40 miles in 24 hrs,that was over 40 years ago and the Blister I got on my heel from the boots is still with me as a hard lump on my heel..

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

There's too many people involved in this forum - maybe start an even older chaps forum, say, 10 years previously to qualify.(that'll be the 1960's for those who've forgotten how to do maths)

Did my first climb in 1961 with a bowline on my fathers old (even then) hemp rope. He had a couple of hemp slings and krabs to belay at the top.I think this was on Moel y Gest, overlooking Porthmadog. I remember it being wet and I was scared.

Nearly 50 years later I'm still hooked and still get scared every time I climb.

In reply to sutty:

My father had a couple of ex WD krabs, we still used them into the 1970's! The last of them was last used to hoist the engine out of my mini in 1976. It must've been a good one because it held!!

In reply to philmorris:

Oh Bugger -- I qualify for that one as well -- my first climb was around 1968 in a grotty Leicestershire quarry whilst at Uni, though it was around 69/70 when I really got in to climbing and started leading in Northumberland

In reply to Lord of Starkness:
-- my first climb was around 1968 in a grotty Leicestershire quarry whilst at Uni ....

I was at Leicester at that time. I've got the impression that the climbs I put up in the local quarries have either been blown-up or filled-in.

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Me too - probably 1966 Wainstones, a pair of plimsolls and a 40' length of hemp garden rope.



Chris

In reply to Lord of Starkness: I started in 1964/5. Black Hawk Traverse on Stanage was my first route.

Al

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Brilliant so many memories,in the r.a.f. at Hereford 1965,had to travel to Newport,to buy my first walking boots,that was the nearest supplier,did first pinnacle route on Tryfan,my first long route (would now be called multi-pitch) in 1965.
Recall buying my first whillans harness from Brennans Capel Curig(now Joe Browns in 1969/1970 for £2;7;6.
Anyone recall the cafe at Portmadoc,called"Bustys"on account of the chest of the lady who ran it.
Still actively involved in climbing although ill-health and age have taken their toll and even further reduced my very limited abalities,but what fun I have had,what wonderful life-long friends I made.
thanks to all who have contributed to this post

In reply to philmorris: 1961 me first climb at Eskdale Outward Bound,my house master was one Ben Lyons of Lyons Equipment,first real climb Central Gully with him by myself on his day off,Dow Crag,got to the top and he said now find your own way back..hooked from that day..Tom Price the Warden

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

>> This post of yours has prompted some of the older climbers I know to remember climbers of that era & not only boots & cafes. e.g their conversation has moved to "Who's Who in British climbing" by Colin Wells & similar books.
(Posts do drift in subject so forgive them.) A major concern seems to be
the Lakes climbers entry under "Sid Thompson". This is considered incomplete on the grounds that there were three climbers called Sid or Syd climbing in the Lakes.They were known by these nicknames:-
First:- Ancient Sid, who was very old, just did v.diff at his age.
Second:- Old Sid, who seems to have been the Sid Thompson in the book. He could have been a pest contoller for Maryport council.
Third:- Young Syd. This was & still is Syd Clark who has recently climbed Ama Dablam when aged 60+.
P.S. I am under orders to post this, but not by any of the "Sids or Syds" mentioned.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Started climbing at school in '66. My first lead was Josephine in Ilkley quarry, which I recall had twin cracks either side of a pillar half way up in those days. Now it's a chimney! Wonder who's name that one had on it?
I must have done it in my 'Hawkins Walkins' (which I doubt I'd try now) because the teacher was so impressed he lent me his PAs to top rope Walewska as my first VS straight after.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: Teachers were good in those days, weren't they? I first went to Llanberis when I was 15 by myself with a teacher, (Frank Cochrane - he was with Whillans on the first ascent of Aiguille Poicenot, though they didn't get on) - you can't imagine that now. I'm sure he pushed me into the lead on some V Diff pitches, even though I was wearing baseball boots and hardly knew what a runner was.

In reply to pyle:

>> I should have explained that from time to time I am asked to read these climbing posts over the phone & then I get a reaction.

In reply to sutty:

Bloody hell Sutty, there can't be many pairs off Cragrats left, you have a pair and so do I, looks like they are only fit for us old b***ers like us.lol
BTW I'm 63 next thursday so I'll retire the cragrats and start climbing in my slipper.lol

In reply to pyle: anyone remember the landlord of the Wasdale Inn back in the 60,s wel before the campsite was there we camped near the stream,hardly anyone in the pub most of the time,and you got charged different prices for the same round of drinks,our record was 4 different prices in the one night..but he did have a problem...

In reply to victorclimber:

>> I have asked. This may have been Wilson Pharaoh (spelling of surname?)
Was this the Wasdale Head hotel? If so, climbers would hear of a party there & would walk over the fells to Wasdale, enjoy the booze up, sleep in a barn & sometimes just walk into empty bedrooms, sleep there then jump out of the window early & walk back to Langdale/Borrowdale the next morning. They didn't get caught because the chamber maids thought that those rooms were vacant, so didn't check them. Some would jump out of the window then walk into the Inn & order breakfast. So I am told.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Yes, I too was a Wainstones brat in 1965. I also went on a "beginners" M.A. course in Skye in the August. The first climb was Cioch Direct and we were told to lead the slab. The instructor was a certain Al Harris.

Nice to see the wonderful red & black P.A.s mentioned. It was Pierre Allain's attempt to get back into business after the terrible court case over his alloy krabs forced him to sell his boot patent to Emile Bronneau (hence "EB").
The first batch of "New PA's" were great, but they went and ruined them by making them wider to suit the British market, and I have narrow feet.

The Galibier rock boots that somebody mentioned were those clumpy brown suede things.

I'm still climbing, despite something of a layoff in the nineties as arthritis took its toll. A new hip sorted that and I put up three new routes last year.

In reply to Andy Long:

Has nobody mentioned RD's? I found then stiffer than PA's and EB's but I think they demanded a more precise technique.

In reply to alan edmonds: As a qualified member, does anybody remember the 'Desert Rat`' the butty tea wagon that used to park in the layby between Fox House and Millstone, it was essential visiting for me and my Sheffield climbing mates in the 1960´s. I think it is now the Millstone car park and only has an ice cream van these days

In reply to ian woodyatt:

I think it was one of the daughters if you mean the Tremadoc cafe, not the lady who ran it, but yes her bosom was spectacular.

In reply to alan edmonds:

RD's alledgedly never wore out - unlike sticky rubber. I wore Masters (I think they were slightly cheaper than EB's) until the toes parted company with the rest of the boots half way up Pincushion at Tremadog. The previous pair were retired when the lace holes ripped on West Rib on the Mot. Unprotected padding in slippers - scarey.
Talking of protection, my first wired nuts (1971?) were clog hex's on rigid wire so they just lifted out when you climbed past. Used to extend them with a short tape loop to solve the problem. So when did quick draws appear?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
It may be my memory going (essential entry qualification anyway??), but didn't everything in 1970 cost £3/19/6?

That year I bought -
EBs
Compton helmet
1-pint primus stove (which I still use!)
Fairy Down sleeping bag
Poplin jacket (couldn't afford Ventile!!),
and I'm sure they were all the same price.

Also started with hemp waistlengths, and 2 Hiatt steel screwgates for attaching the Tarbuck knots with!

Cheers
Andy

In reply to Andy Cairns:

No it all cost 79/6d

In reply to philmorris: I'll have to scan the relevant page of a 1970 Rocksport that describes 'a revolutionary new method of racking gear...'

In reply to Al Evans:

I was not interested in Bustys chest, it was outdone by Penny's who we went there with and my GF at the time.

In reply to alan edmonds: I had RD rock boots. You are correct, they were stiffer and an excellent edging boot. They also seemed to last a little longer than EB and Masters. Can't remember if they were any more expensive though they probably were as the uppers were far more robust, brown suede I think. I loved mine and was gutted when I couldn't get them any more.

Al

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: First a confession, I'm not sure I qualify for this thread as I can't remember whether it was 1970 or 1971 when I started.

I think I may be able to claim to be one of the very first 'wall bred' climbers. I started climbing in 70 or 71 on a course on the newly built climbing wall at the sports hall at the local YMCA. The wall was bricks sticking out or recessed but equiped with top ropes etc.

It did take me about two weeks before I was out on the real rock and I'm not sure I even finished the course. Soon had EB's, a troll waist belt and an agv dolomite (I think) helmet.

In reply to Andy Cairns:


. . . I made my own - double ventile, french seams, lovely to look at, but miserable to wear in the wet

In reply to tradlad:

Yes, RDs were quite a bit more expensive even than EBs, I started with Masters, which were the cheapest, and I think British made.

No one's mentioned that in those days people still often climbed in the Pass and Lakes in mountain boots, especially in the rain, but at lower grades as far as the people I knew anyway.

Did one else have any of those soft steel oval Stubai crabs? Not strong and with an unpleasant stiff action but cheap... all for slings and home made nuts, filed out engineering. I still have a cable laid nylon rope sling that I use.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Peck Crackers.

In reply to Bruce Hooker: I used to work night shift as an electrician at a steelworks and spent a lot of the time drilling out and filing nuts and putting them on slings. I used to trade these with my mates for a pint down the pub.

Al

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

. . . it's true. We did. Fools all. And, of course, with round-the-waist belaying we were always so DIRTY (and wet. And cold)

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
What were those blue suede climbing shoes, available from 68 - 72, I think ? British made and cheaper than anything else. Which is why I had a pair. They were not as good as EBs but lasted fairly well.
The memory is completely toast on this...

In reply to pneame:

Gollies?


Chris

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Yes, Main Wall of Cyrn Las was de rigueur preparation for the Alps in big boots.

Comically on the continuation up Fallen Block Crack on Clogwyn y Ddysgl I got my boot so jammed leading that my partner soloed up to release it.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
No wonder I couldn't remember the name - but yes, that seems to ring a bell.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Technological progress was a mixed blessing even back in the '70's. A cotton windcheater and tweed breeches were great for classic abseils. By 1973, I think I had an orange cagjac which suffered badly when subjected to such basic means of descent.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
My mate and I got our first gear from Black's in Nottingham which included 6 krabs, all steel, each a pair of EBs, some Tiger Tape, 2 MOACs, and 120ft of 3/8ths Viking rope and the, just out: Chatsworth Gritstone guide. I think it all cost about 7 or 12 pounds with shillings and pence. Then we set off for Black Rocks and climbed Lone tree Groove for our first route. He'd done it previously with the Scouts, it seemed hard. Later we did Sand Buttress which was graded S which I was only able to get a couple of pieces of pro in that stayed in, scared the crepe out of me, but that was what we did it for wasn't it? Clothing was jeans, or regular trousers and shirt, I worked in an office, not at mill. This was April 1971, so I can't be in the Old Forts Club --- thankfully, unless you can make me an ornery member. The following summer, a bit better equiped I went to Switzerland with Bill T and Maurice using the same rope but with the addition of a polyprop rope that Bill T got from his dad at Preston Docks, it was very stretchy but very psychologically strengthening to have two ropes.

Our winter exploits were aid climbing at Millstone and Ravensdale, etc. That was my first experience of clipping into a slimy wooden wedge. Clothing to keep the cold out was an RAF greatcoat (very stylish). We slept under Great Corner at Willersley, the barn at the back of Robin Hood's Inn farm near Birchen's, under The Prow at Raven's Dale, that was a tight fit, and the wood shed at Stoney amongst other high class doss spots. Flared jeans did not come in until 1972 or so.

Transportation was almost always hitchhike or bus. The best breakfast was in Baslow: egg and beans on toast with bacon, but the tea was better in Stoney. We often ended up at the Moon on Saturday, but there were a host of good pubs throughout the land. I recall The Hart (I think that was the name) a few miles west of Stoney where we stayed till closing and beyond, then slept on the floor of the bar. Very kind farm folk owned it then.

I saw with interest the photos of the Stoney weekend. Some familiar faces there, a bit grizzled now. But keep going lads, I find it just as much fun now as back then.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

A mate of mine had a pair of Gollies which were a sort of turquoise colour anyway we did Eden Crack in Cheddar Gorge in a snow storm(we were keen in those days)and crossing the snow bank to get back to the descent gully he left a trail of bright blue footsteps,it looked like a Smurf kangaroo had hopped across it.

In reply to deepstar:
Yep, that's gollies. I remember the blue feet very well.
Fabulous.

In reply to pneame: OK, here's a question. Who remembers Tremadog barn, when it was just dirty unchanged straw to sleep on? Used to find treasures there - a home made broddler, 50p pieces (after decimalisation, obviously), occasional tins of sardines... I used to love that place, though it was cold in winter. The owners of Tremadog (crag, barn and petrol station) the Williams, they were wonderful people.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

My first proper harness was a Davek (c1968/9 maybe) - very simple, a belt and two leg loops, a couple of gear loops, just the job.

Years (and years) later I spotted a Davek harness in sale bin in a shop in Ambleside. Keen to show the assembled team how good they used to be I struggled to get the 'leg loops' over my chunky thighs - eventually the rather embarrassed shop assistant said - "sir, its a chest harness" - the masses were well amused!


Chris

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I claim to qualify. I went on a MA course in N Wales in 1963(?) instructed by Spider Penman.

I took a long break (of several decades) to go skiing, but am climbing again a bit now.

In reply to Chris Craggs: I had a Davek, they were OK I think. Why didn't they catch on?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Well, I remember doing routes on Tryfan in big boots and with a bowline 'round the waist. Great days.

Can I join?

Y.

In reply to Yrmenlaf: In five years time, grasshopper.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I do and know what you mean about finding stuff. A mate of mine serviced his rack from venues such as yon place.

In reply to Andy Cairns: Occasionally £3/19/11

In reply to Padraig: You shagged a packet of wine gums???

In reply to loose overhang:


I don't know if you mean concerning yourself but we were buying them from Carnaby Street from the mid 60s... I didn't start climbing until 68 but by then my old trousers for climbing in were flares. As said they weren't always that handy as they hid your feet... good freedom of movement though.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Just missed, started in 1971. Climbed on a bowline using waist belay then classic abbed down again last saturday....history lesson!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: I seem to recall that they were comsidered to be only suitable for aid climbing. I'm sure that was how they were sold.

I also had a lightweight combat jacket which worked very well. I bought it from an Army Stores. In retrospect it worked very much like a soft shell i.e. windproof, showerproof and not too much insulation.

Al

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
>.. good freedom of movement though.

Unbelievably dangerous in descent as well if they caught over a spike of rock (which you couldn't see).....
But one looked good. That was the important thing.

You lot can't be that old... because you can REMEMBER all this stuff.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Tremadoc barn, actually stripped a mini engine in there when I blew the crank revving rather high near Beddgellert. Got towed there, stripped engine and went back in mates van. Found SH crank and new bearings and fitted them next weekend. There was a hoist in the barn of course.

The story does not end there, during the week mates van, that had new ground crank ran its bearings so had to rebuild that as well, due to them giving 30mil oversize bearings on 20 mil regrind.

Intended to start new thread on epic journeys, worth it?

In reply to sutty: Intended to start a thread on epic journeys,worth it? Oh Yes please do!

In reply to Bruce Hooker:That's true about the flares, but climbers didn't wear them until later. A bit slow don't you think?

I realise now that I should be a member because I started free soloing (ooooh) as a lad on the old forge walls in Ironville Derbys. When I was 10 they seemed like they were hundreds of feet high.

Enough of this for now, off to the physio.

In reply to loose overhang:

Flares may have been earlier but I think the later ones were loons, only flared from the knee from memory.

In reply to sutty:

Choice!


Yes

In reply to sutty: You're right, and homemade too. I think they went out of style when they were sold in stores. Now, somewhere I have photos of them.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Willies Barn at Nant Peris had RATS in it. Remember coming back from an evening in the Vaynal Arms in the early 60's. My mate lay down on his sleeping bag (A Blacks Icelandic). Suddenly with a scream he sat bolt up right, grabbed one of his boots (a big leather one) and started beating the shit out of a lump under his bag. "F*cking rat!" he exclaimed. Eventually he gingerly peeled back the sleeping bag to reveal he had just "killed" a pair of his rolled up socks (red ones at that).

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Remember it well - yes it was bloody freezing, anytime!

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I hope I qualify for this group! I started in the mid 60's as a teenager. Our chemisty teacher used to take a small group to Harrisons and for a week in Helyg in the summer.
He had a number of old boots which we used, tricounis etc, hauser laid rope (Nylon I think)and just a few rope slings and ex WD karaniners. No helmets, harneses, belay devices, nuts or other modern stuff.
We climbed as a big group in the traditional manner, with several stops for lunch, tea and rests. We would take all day to do a Tryfan buttress.
He had started climbing in the 20/30's.
Later I remember leading Spectre in the pass with a hauser laid rope tied on with a bowline, waist belay a few slings and nuts on rope. My overweight second fell off on the butterfly overhang and it was a real epic getting him back to safety. Those were the days.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Thinking about the evolution of tying on. First climbs were direct onto the hemp rope with a bowline. Progressed to a hemp waistline and a huge steel screwgate krab (even after we'd got a nylon rope). Then I got a padded waist belt probably around 1968 or 69. Took my first leader fall on this and nearly asphixiated! Even tried a chest harness with which belaying became a major problem. At last, in 1971, the Whillans harness. Luxury and safety in one. What a great guy he was.

Picking up another comment about the age of the contributers, I'm not very old, but I did start very young!!

In reply to Trangia:

Right... in the 70s (and maybe even now, I've no idea) there was a photo above the bar in the Vaynol of a climbing hero of the time. The caption was:

'God made him as ugly as he knew how - then hit him in the face with a shovel.'

Who was it???

In reply to pyle: Wilson Pharaoh it was we used to drive there regularly around the bottom of the Lakes ,the old Ford Popular wouldnt go over the hills,winter and summer ,tents with no groundsheets ,or flysheets and Vesta Curries for breakfast to warm us up..

In reply to tradlad: mate of mine still has is RD,S and remember the Handwag ones ?

In reply to jon:


"'God made him as ugly as he knew how - then hit him in the face with a shovel.'

Who was it???"


Are you sure there wasn't a mirror above the bar?

In reply to MJ:

Very good... But who was the photo of?

In reply to sutty:

In the interests of authenticity, shouldn't you be giving these measurements in thousandths of an inch? ('A' series rebores are still givin in thou for what it's worth).

In reply to graeme jackson:

Of course you are correct, I knew something was wrong but could not think of thous. Had micrometer in my mind and got it wrong, ARSE.

In reply to victorclimber:

Vesta curries - lived off those in Norway for 6 weeks. We finally got some whalemeat late in the trip, but had trouble chewing it as our jaw muscles had atrophied from a diet of Vesta food, bread, cheese, dried eggs and sticky cakes.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: On a school trip in the 60`s we camped at Bedgellert for a week,one of the party was a big farmers lad called Bill who whinged the whole week.On the last evening of the trip it was time for some retribution but he was to big and strong to beat up so we waited till he was asleep then did up the drawstring of his sleeping bag up round his neck and smeared his face with "DeepHeat"he looked like a lobster in the morning and it was a good job we were young and fit so we could keep out of range of his massive fists.

In reply to jon: Pete Minks?

In reply to pneame: Vesta, ah yes! Used to buy those at Humphries shop in Nant, he was a PO because I'd cash a postal order then immediately give him half the cash back to pay for the barn (2/6 a night), Vesta curries and Walls skinless sausages.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I don't know who it was, hence my question (it wasn't a quiz...!), but for some reason, I had it in my mind that it was Minks but couldn't think why anyone would caption it that way. He was, after all, quite a hero of the time. I did wonder if it was Wilson. I was actually going to start a thread about it, then 'Old Farts' appeared and I thought it was appropriate to ask the cognoscenti, and that I'd be flooded with the right answers! So, anyone else for PM???

In reply to tradlad:

Desinitely AGV helmet. A soft foam rim round the front covered in black plastic as a shock absorber...

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: can i have a visitors pass please! was born in 65 (maybe that could be the limit), have s**t equipment, old guide books,can<t coope with cumputors,oh and aren<t policemen(not officers) younge these days? UKC..SET IT UP ..PLEAEASE

In reply to alan edmonds: Yes I had RDs and they were much too stiff for me. It was a revelation to move to EBs!

In reply to jon:

Jon, I've been pondering on this photo thing for a while. I'm thinking early-mid 70's - I can half picture it and I'm almost certain it wasn't Minks - too good looking (he would have confirmed that). You could always ask him as he's alive and well in Tahoe and well-photographed on a sort of time-shifted old f*rts blog from across the pond at http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1129140/Pete-Minks-where-is-he (well worth a visit). My tentative vote is for the supremely talented but not quite so handsome Mr D Whillans, the Vaynol was his watering hole at that time. I could be way off the mark, but the inscription seems to work!?! Thoughts?

In reply to granitbahn:
I've been wondering where Minks was for ages - I thought he was in Tahoe but my data was about 15 years old, at least. Good to see he's still around.

In reply to tradlad:


Helmet is indeed AGC Eiger (still have mine, in red) waistbelt looks like the Troll Mk3, don't have that anymore.

In reply to unclesamsauntibess: Sorry - AGV Eiger helmet.

In reply to Al Evans:
Yes I remember the Dessert Rat van from the late 50's. Used to get tea and Eccles cakes whilst staying at the hut on Millstone. Coincidently, I recently spoke to a bloke who was married to the van owner's daughter. She was p!ssed off having to spend all of her youth in the van.

Someone mentioned John Conn, I'm afraid he died some time ago. Hot and cold was John. Very dodgy to be around after a few pints.

Lots of fond memories on here but what about a bad one, classic abseiling.

In reply to Baz47: classic abseiling down the right wing at Goredale Scar ,still got the rope mark on my kneck where it slipped up..dont ask..and the same abseiling down the descent route after doing the Spigolo del Velo in the early 60,s

In reply to Baz47:

I recall someone called Conn pelting us and other parties with snowballs as we climbed the face of Mam Tor.

In reply to Trangia: I still wake in a cold sweat wondering how on earth we didn't set Willie's Barn on fire, sleeping on the hay and smoking and all that....

In reply to MadProfessor:

I doubt if the contents of Willies barn was ever really dry enough to become combustible.....unlike the Vango Force 10 that caught fire at Braemar on New Year's Eve 1974 shortly after its owner extolled the virtue of his new camping gaz lantern. It took less than a minute to reduce the tent and most of its contents to smouldering ashes. The owner, ironically a glaciologist from Manchester, was administered large quantities of firewater from the Scots fraternity to alleviate his distress. Shortly afterwards someone fell into the bonfire, but managed to avoid spilling the contents of his tumbler. Give me a damp barn anyday.

In reply to granitbahn:
I think that was when I learnt the meaning of the phrase "better to be pissed off than pissed on" - apparently nicking a glaswegian's beer is considered poor form north of the border

In reply to pneame:

And very dangerous!

In reply to Baz47:


There was a period when I used classic abseils most of the time... wearing moleskin breeches and a pullover there was no problem and I thought it was both kinder on the rope and quicker to set up.... until one day when messing about on a small limestone outcrop in the S of France I tried the same in shorts and a tee-shirt. It was only a few feet but hanging free but I soon got the message - and the burn.

In reply to MadProfessor: Tremadog barn was straw too. Never mind setting it on fire (it was probably too damp for that) how come we never caught any diseases?

You could practice climbing on the wall at one end and traverse the beam in the middle - and practice handjamming to reach it!

The Williams who owned it all (and later left Bwylch y Moch to the BMC) were lovely people. Whenever I hear about miserable Gogs (North Walians) I always remember how friendly they were to us when we stayed there.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
You have to remember that the folks who developed the classic abseil wouldn't have been seen dead in shorts and t-shirt. Tres gauche.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:
I was still at school in the late fifties so couldn't afford moleskin breeches or thick jumpers. Even my plimsols didn't have laces they were the slipper type. I certainly couldn't afford to do it now with jackets costing £200 plus.

I'm only! 50 and first climbed 1977, but I remember this little number.............
youtube.com/watch?v=AyaTIXdN5fI&

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Heres one from the distant past,anyone on here remember the old green caravan in Langdale next to the barn,it got burned down eventually ,it was an early club hut belonged to the York Mountainering Club..

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

John Disley's handbook "Tackle climbing this way". It was really more about hill walking and camping than climbing but every time I go walking I think of his introductory story about rushing up the PYG track at full speed laughing at his very slow mentor, who kept going at the same pace all day and ended up way in front.

In reply to Postmanpat:

I remember reading Disley. (Well,I read anything about climbing that I could get my hands on.) He came to a Buxton conference once; a very measured, civil servant mandarin type. One always imagined Blackshaw being like that.

Philosophically the choice always seemed to be between Blackshaw (technique) and Kirkus (go for it). Those that went for Kirkus seemed to end up soloing extremes.

Mick

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: Anyone remember the original Tea shack at Ogwen - Mervyns? Wasn't it tied down with wire to stop it blowing away?

In reply to Mick Ward: Did you know John Disley was one of the guys that paced Roger Bannister to the first 4 min mile. Along with another climber, Chris Brasher

In reply to Al Evans:

AND Chris Chattaway

In reply to Al Evans: Here's a link

In reply to Al Evans:

An early VS I did as a new club member, in the Moelwyns above the Liverpool MC club hut at Tan-y-Grisau, was Double Chris i.e. Chris Bonington & Chris Brasher.

In reply to sutty: My first alpine boots were from Lawrie's shop. It was like Alladin's cave as you walked in through what looked like a normal house door and into the Tardis.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Were you served by Mr and Mrs Lawrie themselves? I bought my first two pairs of boots from them... a cup of tea while trying on the boots, then be invited to try them on the marble fireplace which had some little rounded edges at the bottom... another era. I remember being impressed by the wolverine fur trimmed parkas on display.

The shop's not there any more, alas.

In reply to Postmanpat: wasn't that the book that included a chapter on the art of hitch-hiking ?

In reply to Doug:

Yes,"Always look as tidy and presentable as possible. Comb your hair and keep your face clean."

I've just dug it out! 7s 6d. It also has a chapter on building a rucsac out of a canvas bag and some wood. I actually did this and bloody uncomfortable it was too ....

In reply to Bruce Hooker: When Robert Lawrie died there was a fund set up because his relatives 'had been left in straightened circumstances.'

Presumably with his beautiful boots and idiosyncratic stocking policy he had basically been subsidising generations of alpinists. I still have one of his catalogues somewhere, though I never went to the shop. There was stuff directly from the Victorian era (candle lanterns! long straight pick ice axes!) with a curious selection of more modern stuff like 'Zdarsky sacs.'

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: 'Climbs of Quality!' Now that was an inspirational series in the old Climber and Rambler. An R B Evans topo of a selected climb, described in detail... As though it would be enough to travel from London to Borrowdale, spend teh day climbin Troutdale Pinnacle, then return home, to plan the next assault on the next 'climb of quality...'

In reply to granitbahn:

Re the photo, yes, I think Minks was too good looking for such a caption, but I'd suggest that Whillans wouldn't have put up with a photo of himself captioned thus. Hence I wondered about Wilson...

I remember Whillans setting himself up as a salesman in the Vaynol once. He was trying to sell waterproof trousers. His patter was along the lines of (and in a nasal drawl)

"... wanna buy some overtrousers, they're completely waterproof." He tried this with a mate of mine, Roger Lavil, who dared ask some questions about said trousers:

"Well how do they work, I mean what are they made of? Are they ventile, I mean do the threads expand and stop water penetrating? Or are they proofed or do they have a coating of something...?"

Whillans fixed him with a stare and replied menacingly

"They're COMPLETELY waterproof... "!

In reply to jon:

<"They're COMPLETELY waterproof... "! >

Very Good! Must have laid his hands on a consignment of Helly Hansen seconds - which were.

There are some wonderfully droll quotations attributed to Whillans, but one in particular that makes me chortle concerns his comments on a B&W slide of a group of hikers:

"This is a group of people I used to go walking with. (long pause) That's me on the left. (even longer pause) On the right is the woman I married, Audrey. (very long pause, speaker looks at shoes) Which just goes to show that danger lurks where you least expect it."

Re the photo and Whillans, you're probably right, unless inverse flattery was in play, so it could indeed have been Wilson.....the caption was clearly more memorable than the subject. Can't track down any relevant photos of KW of that vintage although the back copies of Mountain lost in the loft may provide a trigger. So who in those days was slightly deficient in the good looks department yet prominent enough to be on the wall? I'm half tempted to give the Vaynol a ring in the morning on the off-chance it's still there! Can't beat a good treasure hunt.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward: what about the early "rocksport" magazine,it was great,not like todays mags,rocksport was relevant to most british climbers of the day,it had a little black and yellow(i think) car sticker.recall trying to find "peak Scar"northyork moors for the first time in 1971,the clue was a mini van on the top with a rocksport sticker.woody

In reply to ian woodyatt: still got all my Rocksports Ian ...

In reply to ian woodyatt: I have about a half dozen Rocksports, some with the blotting paper covers and some with the more polished gloss covers. Never got a sticker though.

Which reminds me - what were the best editions ever of a magazine? My nominations would be Mountain 15 (with Asgard on the front cover, articles by Doug Scott 'on the profundity trail', Reinhold Messner 'killing dragons' and Frank Cannings on Cornwall. And an early Alpine edition of Crags, 1978/79? had two articles by people I knew (Dirty Alex and Dave Bradney) about people I knew at the time.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I've yet to see mention of the Irving Chest Harness. A gold tape affair that was closed with a buckle similar to some seat belt mechanisms, but then secured by a Krab. If you fell off it could (and often would) smack you in the jaw.

Around the same time Edelrid had a line in cord chest harnesses, though these were meant to be linked to a sit harness - the continentals were big on baody harnesses back then!

Steve

"In all sports standards are improving. Our younger generation of climbers is beginning to appreciate the need for self sufficiency and the importance of fitness as well as technique. But unfortunately protection devices have progressed much more quickly than climbers, with an extremely bad effect on climbing morality. Not so many years ago there were few climbers in this country who would use a peg on a free route normally done without. It was an unwritten rule of the game and, because it was generally accepted, climbing had a marked degree of respectability. Then along came the 'nut' revolution, a tremendous step forward in terms of safety but the cause of a decline in the standards of climbs. Because of this revolution climbing has not only lost it's respectability as a great adventure sport, in this country at least, but it is also rapidly becoming less dangerous than a game of rugby."

By a fine luminary of the game of climbing. Guesses?

Discuss? From December '69 - January 1970 copy of Rocksport, cover price 2/6.

My first ever climbing magazine purchase, I just picked it out as my earliest "experience", having done "climbing" as a sixth form Wed afternoon pastime. I was hooked.

Along with an article entitled "MY GOD HAVE I GOT TO DO THAT?" by John Hammond, detailing an early attempt by himself and Littlejohn of Dreadnought 310' XS and the ascent of Moonraker at the same crag.

In reply to jon:

The ultimate sales technique. Frighten the buggers into buying.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
By coincidence, the Troutdale Pinnacle edition was my first C&R . Either that or "Nightshade" in Donegal.

In reply to unclesamsauntibess:

Old man Humphries died years ago but I met up with Mrs Humphries again a couple of years back, well into her high 80's by then & living in Llanberis. She told me how it all started when some climbers (Midlands based) arrived one snowy winter night looking to doss in her barn. The following year they were back again and so they decided to set up the very basic bunkhouse. A shilling a night and no women in the mid 60's I recall.

In reply to Sean Kelly: He was a grumpy old beggar was Humphries but I used to stay there quite a bit and quite liked him. I even met his daughter - a suprisingly pretty girl - down the Cabin Club in Liverpool one evening, my mates all thought I ought to - ahem - 'hook up' so we could all enjoy free accomodation. Well I didn't, so we didn't, that didn't stop my mates implying it when Mr Humphries came in to give us the traditional boll*cking when we were climbing up the barn walls.

Women weren't allowed in the barn till well into the 70s. One really stormy night loads of tents blew down in the Pass, so the refugees piled into the barn. Humphries came in next morning, his eyes lit up at the sight of all those bodies, so he started shaking them all awake to demand his money. Someone rolled over and said 'Oi, that's my wife, stop that.' Humphries went ballistic: 'I don't care whether it's raining dogs and cats, WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE BARN.' Pause. 'That'll be £1 for the two of you.'

In reply to carl dawson: Hi Mr Dawson, I'll be in touch, usual autumn catch-up....

In reply to Lusk: