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FFS guys, the following climbers are spelled like this.
Pete CREW.
Rusty BAILLIE.
Ray and Pete GREENALL.
Neddy GOFF.
Have some ****ing respect. How can you possibly not know how to spell Pete Crew's name?
jcm
Pete CREW.
Rusty BAILLIE.
Ray and Pete GREENALL.
Neddy GOFF.
Have some ****ing respect. How can you possibly not know how to spell Pete Crew's name?
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
No need to swear dude. I'm sure they could complain if they were really upset by a spelling error.
Chill.
No need to swear dude. I'm sure they could complain if they were really upset by a spelling error.
Chill.
In reply to Fraser:
You should buy Summit magazine...
> FWIW, I've never heard of any of those people.
You should buy Summit magazine...
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
A copy dropped through the door at the weekend but I've not opened it yet. It doesn't often inspire me tbh.
I assume the OP's list is of some big names from 'back in the day'.
A copy dropped through the door at the weekend but I've not opened it yet. It doesn't often inspire me tbh.
I assume the OP's list is of some big names from 'back in the day'.
In reply to Fraser:
I think the OP is sleeping it off, looking at the time of his post! It was obviously a 'big deal' at 00.30
I think the OP is sleeping it off, looking at the time of his post! It was obviously a 'big deal' at 00.30
In reply to Fraser:
You surprise me Fraser! Never heard of Peter Crewe?
> FWIW, I've never heard of any of those people.
You surprise me Fraser! Never heard of Peter Crewe?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
There is more - apparently the FA of Suicide Wall was Charlie Preston, and page 45 gives us that old favourite Chris Bonnington. Never mind, they spelt Wide Boyz correctly.
There is more - apparently the FA of Suicide Wall was Charlie Preston, and page 45 gives us that old favourite Chris Bonnington. Never mind, they spelt Wide Boyz correctly.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: it
It did strike me as odd how Geoffrey Winthrop Young, a poet and mystic, author of On High Hills appeared in Summit as a kind of 'respect dude' who set up the BMC.
It did strike me as odd how Geoffrey Winthrop Young, a poet and mystic, author of On High Hills appeared in Summit as a kind of 'respect dude' who set up the BMC.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Indeed you did. Just me reading your post wrongly. Interestingly I've always had Crew's name down ending with 'e'. I'm still surprised Fraser has never heard of him - even without the 'e'.
Indeed you did. Just me reading your post wrongly. Interestingly I've always had Crew's name down ending with 'e'. I'm still surprised Fraser has never heard of him - even without the 'e'.
Post edited at 11:42
In reply to jon:
Confusion with Richard Crewe?
Fraser's a paid-up member of the Who's Joe Brown generation. I'm not surprised at all.
jcm
Confusion with Richard Crewe?
Fraser's a paid-up member of the Who's Joe Brown generation. I'm not surprised at all.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Spelling misstaks apart I thought it was a really enjoyable read, nice one BMC!
Spelling misstaks apart I thought it was a really enjoyable read, nice one BMC!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
As an aside, what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
As an aside, what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Same generation as you I'm afraid! Misplaced arrogance perhaps that everyone should know what you do?
> Fraser's a paid-up member of the Who's Joe Brown generation. I'm not surprised at all.
Same generation as you I'm afraid! Misplaced arrogance perhaps that everyone should know what you do?
In reply to Fraser:
Don't be stupid. Who said 'should', let alone 'everyone'?
jcm
> Same generation as you I'm afraid! Misplaced arrogance perhaps that everyone should know what you do?
Don't be stupid. Who said 'should', let alone 'everyone'?
jcm
In reply to Fraser:
What has what John does have to do with your ignorance of the significant figures of British climbing history?
What has what John does have to do with your ignorance of the significant figures of British climbing history?
In reply to The New NickB:
Maybe he should have said '... should know what you KNOW?' which is what he meant, I'm sure.
Maybe he should have said '... should know what you KNOW?' which is what he meant, I'm sure.
In reply to The New NickB:
As a small aside, what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
As a small aside, what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
As you seem to be from the hard-of-thinking school, I'll maybe bother replying to that when I'm not at my work computer.
As you seem to be from the hard-of-thinking school, I'll maybe bother replying to that when I'm not at my work computer.
In reply to jon:
I am sure you are right, but I struggle to see how someone can spend over a decade on UKC and presumably open the odd guide book, but have never of heard of any of these people.
> Maybe he should have said '... should know what you KNOW?' which is what he meant, I'm sure.
I am sure you are right, but I struggle to see how someone can spend over a decade on UKC and presumably open the odd guide book, but have never of heard of any of these people.
In reply to Fraser:
Fraser, probably don't bother. So you've never heard of some guys that did some significant routes back-in-the-day. Big deal. What's more interesting and noteworthy is the offence a few people choose to take becuase of that. I guess they must be eith silly or insecure. Hopefully they'll get over it (but of course we both know they wont)
TTFN
> As you seem to be from the hard-of-thinking school, I'll maybe bother replying to that when I'm not at my work computer.
Fraser, probably don't bother. So you've never heard of some guys that did some significant routes back-in-the-day. Big deal. What's more interesting and noteworthy is the offence a few people choose to take becuase of that. I guess they must be eith silly or insecure. Hopefully they'll get over it (but of course we both know they wont)
TTFN
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Nobody has taken the slightest offence. I certainly haven't. Where on earth do you get that from?
Nobody has taken the slightest offence. I certainly haven't. Where on earth do you get that from?
Post edited at 13:31
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Again, don't be stupid. I'm not in the least offended Fraser hasn't heard of these people. I would have bet any money he hadn't.
What I'm offended at is the BMC publishing an interview with Britain's greatest ever climber in which they can't be arsed to spend five minutes finding out how to spell the names of half his climbing partners and clubmates.
jcm
Again, don't be stupid. I'm not in the least offended Fraser hasn't heard of these people. I would have bet any money he hadn't.
What I'm offended at is the BMC publishing an interview with Britain's greatest ever climber in which they can't be arsed to spend five minutes finding out how to spell the names of half his climbing partners and clubmates.
jcm
In reply to The New NickB:
Rusty Baillie has a Cobbler connection IIRC but having spent my formative climbing years in Scotland, I only really became aware of Crew after moving back south and buying southern guidebooks, by which I mean south of the border. Fraser's Scottish or Scottish based isn't he? I'm not sure if JCM knows the history of Highland climbing so well for instance, at least not winter.
I don't think I had heard of Neddy Goff before reading this thread. What did he do and where/when? Is Mr Goff still about? And the name Greenall stirs a few memories of, maybe, 70s/80s grit? But I'm not really sure if I know what Messrs Greenall do/did either.
Rusty Baillie has a Cobbler connection IIRC but having spent my formative climbing years in Scotland, I only really became aware of Crew after moving back south and buying southern guidebooks, by which I mean south of the border. Fraser's Scottish or Scottish based isn't he? I'm not sure if JCM knows the history of Highland climbing so well for instance, at least not winter.
I don't think I had heard of Neddy Goff before reading this thread. What did he do and where/when? Is Mr Goff still about? And the name Greenall stirs a few memories of, maybe, 70s/80s grit? But I'm not really sure if I know what Messrs Greenall do/did either.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I don't get Summits, so who is Britain's greatest ever climber John? Brown? And is that you or Summits giving out that title?
I don't get Summits, so who is Britain's greatest ever climber John? Brown? And is that you or Summits giving out that title?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Slightly off-topic but still hopefully relevant, my German g/f is a member of the DAV; when I showed her the latest Summit this weekend and asked her how it compared to the DAV monthly mag, her exact words were "it's just a load of adverts, you can't read half of it 'cos the text's too small - basically, it's shit" (and yes, her English really is that good).
JW
Slightly off-topic but still hopefully relevant, my German g/f is a member of the DAV; when I showed her the latest Summit this weekend and asked her how it compared to the DAV monthly mag, her exact words were "it's just a load of adverts, you can't read half of it 'cos the text's too small - basically, it's shit" (and yes, her English really is that good).
JW
In reply to Choss:
I'm sure that's the case then Choss. I know I've seen the name in first ascent lists or guidebook descriptions, but can't remember which ones!
I'm sure that's the case then Choss. I know I've seen the name in first ascent lists or guidebook descriptions, but can't remember which ones!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: It is a bit worrying that that one of the people credited with compiling the feature in question is the BMC's Guidebook Officer, and Crew certainly did do things on grit!
Bob
Bob
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I dont think it Matters one iota whether Climbers Know whos who in climbing history.
Ive Known climbers with an Encyclopedic Knowledge of climbing history who could put any mastermind Specialist subject Champion to Shame. And ive Known climbers who couldnt give a flying Hoohah about all that.
Myself, i Know my British history because im Interested, but apart From pat edLinger Know nothing about International climbing people and history, and care about it even less.
Each to their own.
I dont think it Matters one iota whether Climbers Know whos who in climbing history.
Ive Known climbers with an Encyclopedic Knowledge of climbing history who could put any mastermind Specialist subject Champion to Shame. And ive Known climbers who couldnt give a flying Hoohah about all that.
Myself, i Know my British history because im Interested, but apart From pat edLinger Know nothing about International climbing people and history, and care about it even less.
Each to their own.
In reply to wynaptomos:
A good question. I´m probably of the right generation and climbed with Rusty Baillie ten days ago but I´ve never heard of Neddy Goff either.
> John, I'm aware of the first 3 but who was Neddy Goff?
A good question. I´m probably of the right generation and climbed with Rusty Baillie ten days ago but I´ve never heard of Neddy Goff either.
In reply to TobyA:
RB would be most well known in UK rock-climbing terms for making the FA of the Old Man of Hoy and Coronation Street, being in John Cleare's famous photo of Cenotaph Corner and bombing the Gates. However he has done one or two other things, I believe, revealable by Google.
NG was a minor member of the Rock and Ice, known as 'Count' NG (it occurs to me that the Stanage routes of that name may or may not have been called after him?), and more famous for his social contributions than his climbing skills, although I imagine those were reasonable if he was an R&I member.
The Greenalls were also minor members of the R&I, although I think you would find their names in the FA lists rather more. Not as much as Peter Greenwood, perhaps, who I think may be the person Choss has in mind.
I don't know Highland climbing history very well, which is why, if I were to write an article on it, I would spend five minutes googling the names of the people I mentioned so that I could spell their names right. Not doing that's a bit crap.
Britain's greatest - yes, JB.
jcm
RB would be most well known in UK rock-climbing terms for making the FA of the Old Man of Hoy and Coronation Street, being in John Cleare's famous photo of Cenotaph Corner and bombing the Gates. However he has done one or two other things, I believe, revealable by Google.
NG was a minor member of the Rock and Ice, known as 'Count' NG (it occurs to me that the Stanage routes of that name may or may not have been called after him?), and more famous for his social contributions than his climbing skills, although I imagine those were reasonable if he was an R&I member.
The Greenalls were also minor members of the R&I, although I think you would find their names in the FA lists rather more. Not as much as Peter Greenwood, perhaps, who I think may be the person Choss has in mind.
I don't know Highland climbing history very well, which is why, if I were to write an article on it, I would spend five minutes googling the names of the people I mentioned so that I could spell their names right. Not doing that's a bit crap.
Britain's greatest - yes, JB.
jcm
Post edited at 14:06
In reply to Bob Moulton:
>Crew certainly did do things on grit!
Even including a route helpfully called I Peg Diffs.
jcm
>Crew certainly did do things on grit!
Even including a route helpfully called I Peg Diffs.
jcm
In reply to John Ww:
I don't agree with that at all. It's perfectly easy to read. Obviously it's not as good as the paying mags, but then you wouldn't expect it to be.
jcm
I don't agree with that at all. It's perfectly easy to read. Obviously it's not as good as the paying mags, but then you wouldn't expect it to be.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Of course you're offended John. Being offended by other people on UKC appears to be your main/sole preoccupation in life. That and being right, of course.
> Again, don't be stupid. I'm not in the least offended Fraser hasn't heard of these people. I would have bet any money he hadn't.
Of course you're offended John. Being offended by other people on UKC appears to be your main/sole preoccupation in life. That and being right, of course.
In reply to jon:
By reading the posts, boss. People accusing the OP of being ignorant and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation is fairly indicative of people taking offence.
> Nobody has taken the slightest offence. I certainly haven't. Where on earth do you get that from?
By reading the posts, boss. People accusing the OP of being ignorant and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation is fairly indicative of people taking offence.
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Is it?
> By reading the posts, boss. People accusing the OP of being ignorant and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation is fairly indicative of people taking offence.
Is it?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
They need one of these:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/the-genius-of-the-spectato...
Disclaimer: the article is about a friend and ex-colleague. Still, you do need one. I can think of a suitable candidate not a million miles from this thread
> What I'm offended at is the BMC publishing an interview with Britain's greatest ever climber in which they can't be arsed to spend five minutes finding out how to spell the names of half his climbing partners and clubmates.
They need one of these:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/the-genius-of-the-spectato...
Disclaimer: the article is about a friend and ex-colleague. Still, you do need one. I can think of a suitable candidate not a million miles from this thread
In reply to Frank the Husky:
A glaring factual error here: the correct title of The Who's track was My Generation, rather than Joe Brown Generation. As any fool know.
> ... and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation
A glaring factual error here: the correct title of The Who's track was My Generation, rather than Joe Brown Generation. As any fool know.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I thought someone might have mentioned the UKC ref on p55 .. "grumpy armchair climbers a golden opportunity to vent opinions about very small things that clearly been bothering them for a very long time." !
I thought someone might have mentioned the UKC ref on p55 .. "grumpy armchair climbers a golden opportunity to vent opinions about very small things that clearly been bothering them for a very long time." !
In reply to Frank the Husky:
'People accusing the OP of being ignorant and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation is fairly indicative of people taking offence'
Well the OP is the person who called someone else a member of the who's Joe Brown generation, so I think at the very least we can deduce that your powers of English comprehension tend towards the limited.
'People accusing the OP of being ignorant and sarcastically calling him a member of the Who's Joe Brown Generation is fairly indicative of people taking offence'
Well the OP is the person who called someone else a member of the who's Joe Brown generation, so I think at the very least we can deduce that your powers of English comprehension tend towards the limited.
In reply to Frank the Husky:
Could it be that you no longer understand the written word if it's not sprinkled liberally with lols and smileys?
> By reading the posts, boss.
Could it be that you no longer understand the written word if it's not sprinkled liberally with lols and smileys?
In reply to Frank the Husky:
+1
> Of course you're offended John. Being offended by other people on UKC appears to be your main/sole preoccupation in life. That and being right, of course.
+1
Dear everybody,
as the person who wrote the interview I must admit it is indeed slack of me to get those spellings wrong. No excuses.
I am at present bent over awaiting a good old spanking,
Niall
as the person who wrote the interview I must admit it is indeed slack of me to get those spellings wrong. No excuses.
I am at present bent over awaiting a good old spanking,
Niall
In reply to Niall Grimes:
Never mind that... what possessed you to put Gollums in boulder Britain???
Sick!
> Dear everybody,
> as the person who wrote the interview I must admit it is indeed slack of me to get those spellings wrong. No excuses.
> I am at present bent over awaiting a good old spanking,
> Niall
Never mind that... what possessed you to put Gollums in boulder Britain???
Sick!
In reply to TobyA:
Oh FFS Toby, it's spelt Summit not Summits!!!!! How can you not know how to spell Britain's highest circulation climbing magazine? Part of the On the Edge generation I shouldn't wonder.
Oh FFS Toby, it's spelt Summit not Summits!!!!! How can you not know how to spell Britain's highest circulation climbing magazine? Part of the On the Edge generation I shouldn't wonder.
In reply to Niall Grimes:
One last go and an opportunity to make amends ... what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
One last go and an opportunity to make amends ... what's the Stanage route that the fella on p89 (I think) is doing? Green t-shirt man. It also feature on a flyer about BMC insurance.
Rich
In reply to TobyA:
JB is one of the few (I presume there are others) who are in Who's Who for their climbing. He is generally acknowledged by most who know their climbing history to be one of, if not the most significant rock climber that the UK has ever produced.
> I don't get Summits, so who is Britain's greatest ever climber John? Brown? And is that you or Summits giving out that title?
JB is one of the few (I presume there are others) who are in Who's Who for their climbing. He is generally acknowledged by most who know their climbing history to be one of, if not the most significant rock climber that the UK has ever produced.
In reply to Solaris:
Ah, a fine literary reference Molesworth!
> A glaring spelling error there: "as any fule kno".
Ah, a fine literary reference Molesworth!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
It's Simon Nadin I feel sorry for! Jerry wins one round of the World Cup, but Simon becomes overall World Champion at the end of the year, plus he flashes The Groove at Malham (first flash by Brit at the grade I think), on-sight solos Menopause E6 6b at Stoney etc etc etc but all he's mentioned for is holding Lynn Hill's ropes ffs!
Then there's Nick Dixon: first E8 on grit, Face Mecca (fewer ascents than Indian Face)..., James Pearson (what's he ever done?...), Dougie Hall... Proctor/Street... Pete Biven...Gaskins/Smith...Le Menestrel's solo of Revelations.. OK, I know, you can please all the people some of the time... so I'll stop there.
But it got me thinking!!!...
It's Simon Nadin I feel sorry for! Jerry wins one round of the World Cup, but Simon becomes overall World Champion at the end of the year, plus he flashes The Groove at Malham (first flash by Brit at the grade I think), on-sight solos Menopause E6 6b at Stoney etc etc etc but all he's mentioned for is holding Lynn Hill's ropes ffs!
Then there's Nick Dixon: first E8 on grit, Face Mecca (fewer ascents than Indian Face)..., James Pearson (what's he ever done?...), Dougie Hall... Proctor/Street... Pete Biven...Gaskins/Smith...Le Menestrel's solo of Revelations.. OK, I know, you can please all the people some of the time... so I'll stop there.
But it got me thinking!!!...
Post edited at 19:38
In reply to Graham Hoey:
Yes, absolutely Graham, unsung hero. Simon took the engine out of my old VW van single handed (I'd asked him to). Hope that balances things up a bit...
> Simon Nadin (...) but all he's mentioned for is holding Lynn Hill's ropes ffs
Yes, absolutely Graham, unsung hero. Simon took the engine out of my old VW van single handed (I'd asked him to). Hope that balances things up a bit...
Post edited at 19:44
In reply to Niall Grimes:
Can't see it can be your fault as its notoriously difficult to spot errors in one's own work. The proof reader would presumably be at fault. I'm sure you deserve that good spanking for something else though.
Can't see it can be your fault as its notoriously difficult to spot errors in one's own work. The proof reader would presumably be at fault. I'm sure you deserve that good spanking for something else though.
In reply to Tyler:
Fair cop guvnor, I'll come quietly.
Anyway, my totally misinformed armchair opinion is that Summits is a Peaks based magazine, so what do I know?
Fair cop guvnor, I'll come quietly.
Anyway, my totally misinformed armchair opinion is that Summits is a Peaks based magazine, so what do I know?
In reply to Choss:
I was going to reply about the importance of knowing where you come from - but then realised that you don't care one iota.
So I won't.
> I dont think it Matters one iota whether Climbers Know whos who in climbing history.
I was going to reply about the importance of knowing where you come from - but then realised that you don't care one iota.
So I won't.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Sorry JCM, who's that, Franco or Big Ron...
> What I'm offended at is the BMC publishing an interview with Britain's greatest ever climber
> jcm
Sorry JCM, who's that, Franco or Big Ron...
Post edited at 21:00
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Re the Joe Brown article, which was quite a good read, and I am looking forward to Zoe's biography (not autobiography) of her dad. However to quote from the opening of the interview
"I was always into adventure when I was little. Four of us used to mess around together, playing around in bombed out houses..."
Well a couple of years back when I was invited to an afternoon drinks & nibbles party at a villa in Alicante, an elderly chap siddled up to me and said "I believe you are a climber?" He wasn't a climber, bit it turned out that he was a close schoolfriend of Joe Brown in Longsight days, being one of the four that Joe mentioned in his article. It's a small world at times even when you are overseas.
I also recall Bowdon Black telling me of the Thursday evening get-togethers at Plum Worral's house in Levenshulme, which included some of the original Rock & Ice, Brown, Whillans and the Greenall brothers. Audrey, Whillans future wife was also part of this group. To get everybody in the mood so to speak, Plum had painted a mural of the Alps on all the walls of his lounge....complete with gritstone wall! As Littlejohn of the Mail is fond of saying..."You couldn't make it up!"
Re the Joe Brown article, which was quite a good read, and I am looking forward to Zoe's biography (not autobiography) of her dad. However to quote from the opening of the interview
"I was always into adventure when I was little. Four of us used to mess around together, playing around in bombed out houses..."
Well a couple of years back when I was invited to an afternoon drinks & nibbles party at a villa in Alicante, an elderly chap siddled up to me and said "I believe you are a climber?" He wasn't a climber, bit it turned out that he was a close schoolfriend of Joe Brown in Longsight days, being one of the four that Joe mentioned in his article. It's a small world at times even when you are overseas.
I also recall Bowdon Black telling me of the Thursday evening get-togethers at Plum Worral's house in Levenshulme, which included some of the original Rock & Ice, Brown, Whillans and the Greenall brothers. Audrey, Whillans future wife was also part of this group. To get everybody in the mood so to speak, Plum had painted a mural of the Alps on all the walls of his lounge....complete with gritstone wall! As Littlejohn of the Mail is fond of saying..."You couldn't make it up!"
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
And while I'm on the subject, which let's face it I am, Don Roscoe's wife was not called Barbara Spark, although I'm not absolutely sure whether she was Sparks or Sparkes. Still, at least they can spell Ray Greenall right on page 75.
jcm
And while I'm on the subject, which let's face it I am, Don Roscoe's wife was not called Barbara Spark, although I'm not absolutely sure whether she was Sparks or Sparkes. Still, at least they can spell Ray Greenall right on page 75.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Funnily enough after reading it I was going to post about how much I enjoyed it but didn't in the end. I had a rant on here a couple of years ago about one which was indistinguishable in my eyes to Trail magazine but this was a return to form for me - a really good read, thanks BMC!
Funnily enough after reading it I was going to post about how much I enjoyed it but didn't in the end. I had a rant on here a couple of years ago about one which was indistinguishable in my eyes to Trail magazine but this was a return to form for me - a really good read, thanks BMC!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Dear me, there's more. Climber and Rambler split into The Great Outdoors and Climber in 1986, not 1977.
Dear me, there's more. Climber and Rambler split into The Great Outdoors and Climber in 1986, not 1977.
In reply to Michael Hood:
Cheers Michael - funny thing is I've done it ...! Not for along time mind you.
Rich
Cheers Michael - funny thing is I've done it ...! Not for along time mind you.
Rich
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Well apart from a few minor typos, it's an interesting article.
Well done Neil.
Well apart from a few minor typos, it's an interesting article.
Well done Neil.
In reply to Steve Crowe:
You dont seem to realise minor typos make the whole thing worthless God help the Guardian.
You dont seem to realise minor typos make the whole thing worthless God help the Guardian.
In reply to Steve Crowe:
>Well done Neil.
Very dry. I agree, actually, it was interesting. I particularly enjoyed Joe's observation that he could still climb 5b at 80 but that his joints hurt so much on the walk down he gave up climbing. He should have moved to Cornwall.
jcm
>Well done Neil.
Very dry. I agree, actually, it was interesting. I particularly enjoyed Joe's observation that he could still climb 5b at 80 but that his joints hurt so much on the walk down he gave up climbing. He should have moved to Cornwall.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Crikey are you still going?
> And while I'm on the subject, which let's face it I am, Don Roscoe's wife was not called Barbara Spark, although I'm not absolutely sure whether she was Sparks or Sparkes. Still, at least they can spell Ray Greenall right on page 75.
> jcm
Crikey are you still going?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Defo, it gives me great amusement to watch an odious Alpha male wind himself up.
Nice sexist comment by the way.
> Why not, sweetie? You're still watching.
> jcm
Defo, it gives me great amusement to watch an odious Alpha male wind himself up.
Nice sexist comment by the way.
In reply to Hirosim:
Who was it said: Resist not evil?
I'll burn that book, so help me devil.
I'll sing a psalm as I watch it burn
And the ashes I'll keep in a one-handled urn.
I'll penance do with farts and groans
Kneeling upon my marrowbones.
This very next lent I will unbare
My penitent buttocks to the air
And sobbing beside my printing press
My awful sin I will confess
From Gas from a Burner, James Joyce
Us Irish are well versed in begging forgiveness from those who like to judge.
Who was it said: Resist not evil?
I'll burn that book, so help me devil.
I'll sing a psalm as I watch it burn
And the ashes I'll keep in a one-handled urn.
I'll penance do with farts and groans
Kneeling upon my marrowbones.
This very next lent I will unbare
My penitent buttocks to the air
And sobbing beside my printing press
My awful sin I will confess
From Gas from a Burner, James Joyce
Us Irish are well versed in begging forgiveness from those who like to judge.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I thought it was called 'Crew Pegs Diffs' ?
> Even including a route helpfully called I Peg Diffs.
> jcm
I thought it was called 'Crew Pegs Diffs' ?
In reply to Fredt:
Indeed. And it isn't by Crew either. That was my idea of humour.
Been quite a success, this thread. I don't normally have two stalkers at once, let alone three. I'm used to FTH, of course, and to a certain extent Fraser, but this Hirosim fellow is new.
jcm
> I thought it was called 'Crew Pegs Diffs' ?
Indeed. And it isn't by Crew either. That was my idea of humour.
Been quite a success, this thread. I don't normally have two stalkers at once, let alone three. I'm used to FTH, of course, and to a certain extent Fraser, but this Hirosim fellow is new.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Your ego needs a good pegging, more so than crew's diffs. Exhasperated critics are not likely the same thing as stalkers. I think its just sad to see a man with your brain, knowledge and potential to make positive inputs to UK climbing, so consistantly and destructively angry (which of course means people will treat your sensible and well argued opinions with less though than they deserve). Why do you need to play the cartoon character, like Sloper and so many others before him.
Your ego needs a good pegging, more so than crew's diffs. Exhasperated critics are not likely the same thing as stalkers. I think its just sad to see a man with your brain, knowledge and potential to make positive inputs to UK climbing, so consistantly and destructively angry (which of course means people will treat your sensible and well argued opinions with less though than they deserve). Why do you need to play the cartoon character, like Sloper and so many others before him.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
If a 'successful' thread, is a divisive thread, where many (not just 3) think your a a bit silly, then you must be a very strange person.
> Indeed. And it isn't by Crew either. That was my idea of humour.
> Been quite a success, this thread. I don't normally have two stalkers at once, let alone three. I'm used to FTH, of course, and to a certain extent Fraser, but this Hirosim fellow is new.
> jcm
If a 'successful' thread, is a divisive thread, where many (not just 3) think your a a bit silly, then you must be a very strange person.
In reply to Offwidth:
It's always the authors fault and should always take responsibility. A good proofreader should spot things like this, but that doesn't excuse the author getting it wrong in the first place.
> Can't see it can be your fault as its notoriously difficult to spot errors in one's own work. The proof reader would presumably be at fault. I'm sure you deserve that good spanking for something else though.
It's always the authors fault and should always take responsibility. A good proofreader should spot things like this, but that doesn't excuse the author getting it wrong in the first place.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I presume you mean Cheddar's Coronation Street? Cheddar guidebooks make no mention of his name regarding the FA. Stated as Bonnington, Cleare and Greenbank. So maybe for most of us he won't be as well known as you think for a route he's not credited with?
> RB would be most well known in UK rock-climbing terms for making the FA of the Old Man of Hoy and Coronation Street
I presume you mean Cheddar's Coronation Street? Cheddar guidebooks make no mention of his name regarding the FA. Stated as Bonnington, Cleare and Greenbank. So maybe for most of us he won't be as well known as you think for a route he's not credited with?
In reply to Stuart Williams:
Is that right? Bollocks, I knew I should have checked that, but I couldn't be bothered to walk downstairs.
He's in some way associated with CS, though, isn't he? Is the model in Hard Rock, perhaps? or maybe I'm just wrong - happens often.
jcm
Is that right? Bollocks, I knew I should have checked that, but I couldn't be bothered to walk downstairs.
He's in some way associated with CS, though, isn't he? Is the model in Hard Rock, perhaps? or maybe I'm just wrong - happens often.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
>http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1967_files/AJ%201967%2024...
Well, according to that (amazing picture of Kilnsey Main; did they really used to take that hanging belay there, or was it just for TV?) RB played the same role as AG, ie Sherpa.
jcm
>http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1967_files/AJ%201967%2024...
Well, according to that (amazing picture of Kilnsey Main; did they really used to take that hanging belay there, or was it just for TV?) RB played the same role as AG, ie Sherpa.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
RB was from South Africa, wasn't he? I'm pretty sure he used to hold the record for the quickest time from the summit of Mt Kenya to the summit of Kilimanjaro (or vice versa), driving in between.
RB was from South Africa, wasn't he? I'm pretty sure he used to hold the record for the quickest time from the summit of Mt Kenya to the summit of Kilimanjaro (or vice versa), driving in between.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
...and indeed, again according to that, the 'other' climber was not John Cleare but Mike Thompson, although JC had climbed most of the route the weekend before with Chris B.
jcm
...and indeed, again according to that, the 'other' climber was not John Cleare but Mike Thompson, although JC had climbed most of the route the weekend before with Chris B.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
The guide does mention that the route had been prepared and nearly climbed previously by some of the same party, perhaps RB was involved in a previous attempt? I'm not sure to be honest, I have to plead ignorance to any names other than Bonnington's regarding that route; I only learned of the others involved by checking the guide just now.
The guide does mention that the route had been prepared and nearly climbed previously by some of the same party, perhaps RB was involved in a previous attempt? I'm not sure to be honest, I have to plead ignorance to any names other than Bonnington's regarding that route; I only learned of the others involved by checking the guide just now.
In reply to John2:
I think he was, but he later moved to either America or Canada and achieved various distinctions there. (as well as in the Alps).
No idea about MK-K. I'd imagine modern technology has played a big role in such records!
jcm
I think he was, but he later moved to either America or Canada and achieved various distinctions there. (as well as in the Alps).
No idea about MK-K. I'd imagine modern technology has played a big role in such records!
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Yeah, I noticed the mention of Thompson instead, interesting. The names I listed were lifted straight from the CC guide so that's a little curious.
Yeah, I noticed the mention of Thompson instead, interesting. The names I listed were lifted straight from the CC guide so that's a little curious.
In reply to Stuart Williams:
Just means they haven't asked me to proof-read it, that's all.
I suspect Hard Rock may provide a better answer to this question.
I wonder if the original OB is on youtube yet? I've never seen it, but someone put Hoy up there recently.
jcm
> Yeah, I noticed the mention of Thompson instead, interesting. The names I listed were lifted straight from the CC guide so that's a little curious.
Just means they haven't asked me to proof-read it, that's all.
I suspect Hard Rock may provide a better answer to this question.
I wonder if the original OB is on youtube yet? I've never seen it, but someone put Hoy up there recently.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I believe he used a Jaguar, so the road part would have been done fairly quickly.
I believe he used a Jaguar, so the road part would have been done fairly quickly.
In reply to tony:
The individual piece was written by Niall whom I'd always forgive the odd error for the quality of the writing and the celebration of climbing his work beautifully epitomises. Having worked as a guidebook co-editor alongside him I could have been furious with the number of things he did that then that required editorial changes but I chose to regard it as part of the process heading towards being chuffed to bits with the final quality of what we managed to make. He is a bit cheeky linking himself to JJ though.
What would you prefer, drier pieces perfectly written or what we got and more time for employees spent on BMC business rather than editorial polishing?
The individual piece was written by Niall whom I'd always forgive the odd error for the quality of the writing and the celebration of climbing his work beautifully epitomises. Having worked as a guidebook co-editor alongside him I could have been furious with the number of things he did that then that required editorial changes but I chose to regard it as part of the process heading towards being chuffed to bits with the final quality of what we managed to make. He is a bit cheeky linking himself to JJ though.
What would you prefer, drier pieces perfectly written or what we got and more time for employees spent on BMC business rather than editorial polishing?
In reply to John2:
No wonder he got on well with Mac the Telly.
jcm
> I believe he used a Jaguar, so the road part would have been done fairly quickly.
No wonder he got on well with Mac the Telly.
jcm
In reply to Stuart Williams:
As this is a thread all about precision it is worth pointing out that it is 'Bonington'. :0)
> I presume you mean Cheddar's Coronation Street? Cheddar guidebooks make no mention of his name regarding the FA. Stated as Bonnington, Cleare and Greenbank. So maybe for most of us he won't be as well known as you think for a route he's not credited with?
As this is a thread all about precision it is worth pointing out that it is 'Bonington'. :0)
In reply to Offwidth:
Is getting a person's name right 'editorial polishing'? Getting a name right doesn't have any impact on the dryness or otherwise of a piece. I'd prefer authors to get details like this right, and they shouldn't rely on anyone else picking it up. Proofreaders and copy-editors might make the correction, but the mistake is there because the author put it there - it's their responsibility.
> What would you prefer, drier pieces perfectly written or what we got and more time for employees spent on BMC business rather than editorial polishing?
Is getting a person's name right 'editorial polishing'? Getting a name right doesn't have any impact on the dryness or otherwise of a piece. I'd prefer authors to get details like this right, and they shouldn't rely on anyone else picking it up. Proofreaders and copy-editors might make the correction, but the mistake is there because the author put it there - it's their responsibility.
In reply to Andy Say:
"As this is a thread all about precision" - and the OP has already admitted that " I knew I should have checked that, but I couldn't be bothered to walk downstairs."
Priceless really. Clearly the OP can't stand hippocresy, but is always happy to make an exception in his own case.
And I know I spelt a word in the last statement incorrectly. I'm hoping his head will explode in rage.
"As this is a thread all about precision" - and the OP has already admitted that " I knew I should have checked that, but I couldn't be bothered to walk downstairs."
Priceless really. Clearly the OP can't stand hippocresy, but is always happy to make an exception in his own case.
And I know I spelt a word in the last statement incorrectly. I'm hoping his head will explode in rage.
In reply to Hirosim:
Actually, y'know, that was pretty dry too. I must admit it went over my head at the time.
Either that or Hirosim's an even bigger fool than I'd imagined. I can't tell. Always my favourite kind of post.
jcm
> it gives me great amusement to watch an odious Alpha male wind himself up. Nice sexist comment by the way.
Actually, y'know, that was pretty dry too. I must admit it went over my head at the time.
Either that or Hirosim's an even bigger fool than I'd imagined. I can't tell. Always my favourite kind of post.
jcm
In reply to Sally Bustyerface:
I think you will find that most people agree there's a difference in the degree of research to be expected before posting on internet forums on the one hand, and publishing articles in the course of one's job on the other.
I only get angry at people who are worth it, like those who produce Summit. Anonymous internet pillocks don't come into this category.
jcm
I think you will find that most people agree there's a difference in the degree of research to be expected before posting on internet forums on the one hand, and publishing articles in the course of one's job on the other.
I only get angry at people who are worth it, like those who produce Summit. Anonymous internet pillocks don't come into this category.
jcm
In reply to tony:
It is very much editorial polishing if you don't realise you have spelt it wrong and have to waste time going to look up all the names you have used. Niall writes the way he does and it comes with the odd error (not so many really that it will annoy anyone but a pedant), so yes, you either want what he writes or you don't. Having worked with people much worse, who are dyslexic, driven crazy by editorial effort or plain lazy, and where their output had to be used, author responsibility sometimes blurs and proofreaders and copy editors can take a very important role.
It is very much editorial polishing if you don't realise you have spelt it wrong and have to waste time going to look up all the names you have used. Niall writes the way he does and it comes with the odd error (not so many really that it will annoy anyone but a pedant), so yes, you either want what he writes or you don't. Having worked with people much worse, who are dyslexic, driven crazy by editorial effort or plain lazy, and where their output had to be used, author responsibility sometimes blurs and proofreaders and copy editors can take a very important role.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Niall gets asked to do all sorts of shit outside his main job role. I'd rather he use more time on guidebooks and less time checking he is spelling names correctly. Non anonymous internet pillocks are so much more classy.
Niall gets asked to do all sorts of shit outside his main job role. I'd rather he use more time on guidebooks and less time checking he is spelling names correctly. Non anonymous internet pillocks are so much more classy.
In reply to Offwidth:
It's not about Niall. It's about the BMC. If they're going to produce a magazine, it mustn't be crap. If you can't spell Pete Crew and half a dozen other people right, then it's crap. If doing that is too much trouble, then don't bother with historical articles.
I venture to suggest that spelling Joe Browne like this would have alienated more than just pedants, and it's not that big a difference. Crew and Bonington aren't exactly nobodies. Even the Guardian can spell Clegg correctly.
jcm
It's not about Niall. It's about the BMC. If they're going to produce a magazine, it mustn't be crap. If you can't spell Pete Crew and half a dozen other people right, then it's crap. If doing that is too much trouble, then don't bother with historical articles.
I venture to suggest that spelling Joe Browne like this would have alienated more than just pedants, and it's not that big a difference. Crew and Bonington aren't exactly nobodies. Even the Guardian can spell Clegg correctly.
jcm
Post edited at 14:50
In reply to Offwidth:
I disagree. Getting names right is, to my mind, pretty fundamental. As someone who makes quite of big chunk of my living from rewriting poorly written manuscripts, I have no doubt about the value of good editing, but getting names right is not polishing, and getting names wrong is the responsibility of the author.
> It is very much editorial polishing if you don't realise you have spelt it wrong and have to waste time going to look up all the names you have used.
I disagree. Getting names right is, to my mind, pretty fundamental. As someone who makes quite of big chunk of my living from rewriting poorly written manuscripts, I have no doubt about the value of good editing, but getting names right is not polishing, and getting names wrong is the responsibility of the author.
In reply to Offwidth:
What would you prefer, drier pieces perfectly written or what we got and more time for employees spent on BMC business rather than editorial polishing?
JCM might get on his high horse at times, but in this instance it's perfectly justified.
Additionally, I wouldn't call it 'editorial polishing', but rather having respect for the history of the activity that the BMC is supposed to represent.
What would you prefer, drier pieces perfectly written or what we got and more time for employees spent on BMC business rather than editorial polishing?
JCM might get on his high horse at times, but in this instance it's perfectly justified.
Additionally, I wouldn't call it 'editorial polishing', but rather having respect for the history of the activity that the BMC is supposed to represent.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Hi John
I would imagine that the exact make-up of the first ascent team of CS depends on which event is regarded as the first ascent. As Cleare's piece explains, the whole of the route was climbed over two visits in January 1965. His account differs slightly from Bonington's in suggesting that they were climbing at Avon on the saturday and opened their account with CS on sunday, whereas Chris recalls spending the whole weekend at Cheddar with Cleare and Greenbank; he did Ready Steady Go with Greenbank on the saturday and, as before, got up to The Shield on CS with Cleare on the sunday before traversing right to finish up Sceptre Direct. Thompson should have been present but was in bed with 'flu (or possibly, as it's known these days, "man-'flu"). Cleare doesn't offer any detail about the second visit, but Bonington relates that it was a week-and-a-half later and that it involved him, Cleare, Greenbank and a still weak Thompson. Rather than repeating the lower section they abseiled from the top to a small ledge in the break, presumably somewhere on or between Osiris and Sceptre Direct, whence Bonington led across to the stance beyond The Shield. I think the plan was for him and Thompson to complete the route while Cleare took photos and Greenbank acted as his "minder", but in the event Thompson decided he felt too weak to follow the pitch so Greenbank took his place; whereafter the ascent was duly completed. So, arguably, Cleare and Greenbank were both involved in establishing the finished route, whereas it was probably Thompson who accompanied Bonington on the first continuous ascent during the outside broadcast in May 1965 (the guidebook FA date), assuming that that hadn't already happened in the course of practice-runs with other members of the team.
The 1992 guidebook contains a Cleare b&w shot of Baillie "traversing below the headwall of High Rock.... during the 1965 Coronation Street television broadcast" which appears at first glance to show him crossing The Shield; I'm sure you have that edition, and maybe that's why he popped into mind. On closer examination, however, it looks to me as if he's actually further left - somewhere near Crow, perhaps, and taken in the course of accessing and setting up a camera position; I could be wrong, but the scaffolding tower at the bottom of The Amphitheatre in the background looks too close for him to actually be on Coronation Street.
Ironically, at least two pre-Crocker guides managed to give Bonington that annoying extra "n"!
Hi John
I would imagine that the exact make-up of the first ascent team of CS depends on which event is regarded as the first ascent. As Cleare's piece explains, the whole of the route was climbed over two visits in January 1965. His account differs slightly from Bonington's in suggesting that they were climbing at Avon on the saturday and opened their account with CS on sunday, whereas Chris recalls spending the whole weekend at Cheddar with Cleare and Greenbank; he did Ready Steady Go with Greenbank on the saturday and, as before, got up to The Shield on CS with Cleare on the sunday before traversing right to finish up Sceptre Direct. Thompson should have been present but was in bed with 'flu (or possibly, as it's known these days, "man-'flu"). Cleare doesn't offer any detail about the second visit, but Bonington relates that it was a week-and-a-half later and that it involved him, Cleare, Greenbank and a still weak Thompson. Rather than repeating the lower section they abseiled from the top to a small ledge in the break, presumably somewhere on or between Osiris and Sceptre Direct, whence Bonington led across to the stance beyond The Shield. I think the plan was for him and Thompson to complete the route while Cleare took photos and Greenbank acted as his "minder", but in the event Thompson decided he felt too weak to follow the pitch so Greenbank took his place; whereafter the ascent was duly completed. So, arguably, Cleare and Greenbank were both involved in establishing the finished route, whereas it was probably Thompson who accompanied Bonington on the first continuous ascent during the outside broadcast in May 1965 (the guidebook FA date), assuming that that hadn't already happened in the course of practice-runs with other members of the team.
The 1992 guidebook contains a Cleare b&w shot of Baillie "traversing below the headwall of High Rock.... during the 1965 Coronation Street television broadcast" which appears at first glance to show him crossing The Shield; I'm sure you have that edition, and maybe that's why he popped into mind. On closer examination, however, it looks to me as if he's actually further left - somewhere near Crow, perhaps, and taken in the course of accessing and setting up a camera position; I could be wrong, but the scaffolding tower at the bottom of The Amphitheatre in the background looks too close for him to actually be on Coronation Street.
Ironically, at least two pre-Crocker guides managed to give Bonington that annoying extra "n"!
Post edited at 15:38
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Must be spot on then as its annoying you and other more sensible peeps find the article really interesting.
Must be spot on then as its annoying you and other more sensible peeps find the article really interesting.
In reply to John2:
Have you ever tried to drive fast on Kenyan "roads"!
> I believe he used a Jaguar, so the road part would have been done fairly quickly.
Have you ever tried to drive fast on Kenyan "roads"!
In reply to tony:
There once was a climber called Niall
entertainingly informative in style
Yet muddles with Baille
Had the pedants howl fail
Thats enough, lets go climb The File
There once was a climber called Niall
entertainingly informative in style
Yet muddles with Baille
Had the pedants howl fail
Thats enough, lets go climb The File
In reply to Fredt:
I have been in a minibus which went from Mount Kenya to Kilimanjaro. Some of the potholes were possibly large enough to swallow the minibus.
I have been in a minibus which went from Mount Kenya to Kilimanjaro. Some of the potholes were possibly large enough to swallow the minibus.
In reply to John2:
In a recent trip to Mount Kenya, the bus driver drove with two wheels just on the edge of the tarmac, and the other two wheels off road.
> I have been in a minibus which went from Mount Kenya to Kilimanjaro. Some of the potholes were possibly large enough to swallow the minibus.
In a recent trip to Mount Kenya, the bus driver drove with two wheels just on the edge of the tarmac, and the other two wheels off road.
In reply to Offwidth:
So what do you think of the fact that Chris Preston, who made what is one of the candidates for the most ahead of its time first ascent in the history of British climbing, is called Charlie Preston? It's not a misprint, it's not a typo, it's just plain wrong. Why should I waste my time reading something written by someone who is ignorant of the basic facts?
So what do you think of the fact that Chris Preston, who made what is one of the candidates for the most ahead of its time first ascent in the history of British climbing, is called Charlie Preston? It's not a misprint, it's not a typo, it's just plain wrong. Why should I waste my time reading something written by someone who is ignorant of the basic facts?
In reply to Ian Parsons:
>The 1992 guidebook contains a Cleare b&w shot of Baillie "traversing below the headwall of High Rock.... during the 1965 Coronation Street television broadcast" which appears at first glance to show him crossing The Shield; I'm sure you have that edition, and maybe that's why he popped into mind. On closer examination, however, it looks to me as if he's actually further left - somewhere near Crow, perhaps, and taken in the course of accessing and setting up a camera position; I could be wrong, but the scaffolding tower at the bottom of The Amphitheatre in the background looks too close for him to actually be on Coronation Street.
That's probably right - fits in with him being a Sherpa as per Cleare.
As to the actual FA party - agreed, far from clear, but I reckon Thompson ought to be in there as well!
jcm
>The 1992 guidebook contains a Cleare b&w shot of Baillie "traversing below the headwall of High Rock.... during the 1965 Coronation Street television broadcast" which appears at first glance to show him crossing The Shield; I'm sure you have that edition, and maybe that's why he popped into mind. On closer examination, however, it looks to me as if he's actually further left - somewhere near Crow, perhaps, and taken in the course of accessing and setting up a camera position; I could be wrong, but the scaffolding tower at the bottom of The Amphitheatre in the background looks too close for him to actually be on Coronation Street.
That's probably right - fits in with him being a Sherpa as per Cleare.
As to the actual FA party - agreed, far from clear, but I reckon Thompson ought to be in there as well!
jcm
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Actually, that piece by Cleare has some other interesting features, notably that the famous picture of Crew on Great Wall was actually first taken for the Observer (and recycled for RCIAIS, unless I misremember its being in there), and, slightly more sensationally, that Crew soloed up to that point for the picture as they only had the two of them there since it was midweek and wet!
jcm
Actually, that piece by Cleare has some other interesting features, notably that the famous picture of Crew on Great Wall was actually first taken for the Observer (and recycled for RCIAIS, unless I misremember its being in there), and, slightly more sensationally, that Crew soloed up to that point for the picture as they only had the two of them there since it was midweek and wet!
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Very much so! I don't think that's a hanging belay in the Kilnsey picture - the two climbers appear to be on different ropes, and both are presumably actually climbing; Mac (I think) is following whoever's belayed over the lip (atop the hanging rope) and Ingle's leading the second rope. Cleare refers to rigging a fixed rope along the "Moseley Band" on Moseley's original route, from which he would have had good views looking in at the climbers as they came out across the roof on the later direct route. Moseley's route started up Brainstorm to the righthand end of the roof, then traversed the whole length of the hanging crackline to the common exit at the lip - consecutive A3 pitches of 70 and 90 feet with an intermediate hanging belay somewhat out in space. As far as I know, however, the direct route always crossed the roof in one pitch.
Ian P
> Actually, that piece by Cleare has some other interesting features,
Very much so! I don't think that's a hanging belay in the Kilnsey picture - the two climbers appear to be on different ropes, and both are presumably actually climbing; Mac (I think) is following whoever's belayed over the lip (atop the hanging rope) and Ingle's leading the second rope. Cleare refers to rigging a fixed rope along the "Moseley Band" on Moseley's original route, from which he would have had good views looking in at the climbers as they came out across the roof on the later direct route. Moseley's route started up Brainstorm to the righthand end of the roof, then traversed the whole length of the hanging crackline to the common exit at the lip - consecutive A3 pitches of 70 and 90 feet with an intermediate hanging belay somewhat out in space. As far as I know, however, the direct route always crossed the roof in one pitch.
Ian P
In reply to John2:
Its a simple silly mistake, not something that renders the whole article useless. People spell my real name incorrectly more times than not including in some far more important scenarios than a magazine article and I can deal proportionately and calmly with that.
Its a simple silly mistake, not something that renders the whole article useless. People spell my real name incorrectly more times than not including in some far more important scenarios than a magazine article and I can deal proportionately and calmly with that.
In reply to GeoffRadcliffe:
http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1967_files/AJ%201967%2024...
jcm
http://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/Contents/Contents_1967_files/AJ%201967%2024...
jcm
In reply to Offwidth:
It's the mistake of someone who doesn't know what he's writing about.
And it's not Action Direct, it's Action Directe.
These are some of the most important routes in the history of rock climbing, and they deserve writing about by people who can spell.
It's the mistake of someone who doesn't know what he's writing about.
And it's not Action Direct, it's Action Directe.
These are some of the most important routes in the history of rock climbing, and they deserve writing about by people who can spell.
In reply to John2:
Wow that is pretty embarassing. That's poor and they just definitely work on their proof reading, it's really basic stuff this.
> So what do you think of the fact that Chris Preston, who made what is one of the candidates for the most ahead of its time first ascent in the history of British climbing, is called Charlie Preston? It's not a misprint, it's not a typo, it's just plain wrong. Why should I waste my time reading something written by someone who is ignorant of the basic facts?
Wow that is pretty embarassing. That's poor and they just definitely work on their proof reading, it's really basic stuff this.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Just thought of something, perhaps it was an April Fool's edition...
Just thought of something, perhaps it was an April Fool's edition...
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Hard Rock was no use, of course; the article's by Jim Perrin and not about the FA at all. It does have a picture of Tony Greenbank which claims to have been of the FA, and another of Bonington and Thompson which presumably was from the OB.
On the bright side, while researching for further moanings I've discovered Gwen Moffat published her latest detective novel in 2012 at the age of 88. Good for her. Anyone read them? Not really my genre, but should I try?
On another theme, I hadn't realised Don Roscoe's wife was actually mis-spelled in an article about Don R himself. Hmm.
jcm
Hard Rock was no use, of course; the article's by Jim Perrin and not about the FA at all. It does have a picture of Tony Greenbank which claims to have been of the FA, and another of Bonington and Thompson which presumably was from the OB.
On the bright side, while researching for further moanings I've discovered Gwen Moffat published her latest detective novel in 2012 at the age of 88. Good for her. Anyone read them? Not really my genre, but should I try?
On another theme, I hadn't realised Don Roscoe's wife was actually mis-spelled in an article about Don R himself. Hmm.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
It does have a picture of Tony Greenbank which claims to have been of the FA, and another of Bonington and Thompson which presumably was from the OB.
If there's snow visible it's almost certainly from the initial visits in January; if not probably May.
It does have a picture of Tony Greenbank which claims to have been of the FA, and another of Bonington and Thompson which presumably was from the OB.
If there's snow visible it's almost certainly from the initial visits in January; if not probably May.
In reply to Ian Parsons:
Yes, indeed; the Tony G picture has snow everywhere, while the B/T one doesn't at all, as the RB one in the guide doesn't.
jcm
Yes, indeed; the Tony G picture has snow everywhere, while the B/T one doesn't at all, as the RB one in the guide doesn't.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Here's my chance!
Many years ago (obviously) I read a children's book that I since came to believe might have come from the pen of Gwen Moffat, writing under a nom de plume; I've no idea why I arrived at that impression. The plot opened with some kids investigating a cromlech on the slopes of Foel Fras/Tal y Fan and finding two potions - a pain enhancer and a pain supressant (it was about fifty years ago and I have a good memory - honest!); if smeared on some offensive implement the first could induce short-term unconciousness through the application of a light tap - probably best not tried at home, children - while the latter could reverse the effect. When administered via pea-shooter pellets and the like on the unsuspecting cheeks and necks of various officers of the law, members of the armed forces and various self-pompous representatives of local officialdom, this secret weapon could - and obviously did - lead rapidly to the belief that insurmountable terrorist forces were at work and that their subsequent demands should be taken seriously; such demands included, if I recall, an urgently-needed by-pass around St Asaph to ease bank-holiday congestion.
It all gets a bit hazy after that, but if anyone can either confirm my theory or pour cold water on it I would be most interested. Maybe it was J K Rowling's grandmother, after all!
> On the bright side, while researching for further moanings I've discovered Gwen Moffat published her latest detective novel in 2012 at the age of 88. Good for her. Anyone read them? Not really my genre, but should I try?
Here's my chance!
Many years ago (obviously) I read a children's book that I since came to believe might have come from the pen of Gwen Moffat, writing under a nom de plume; I've no idea why I arrived at that impression. The plot opened with some kids investigating a cromlech on the slopes of Foel Fras/Tal y Fan and finding two potions - a pain enhancer and a pain supressant (it was about fifty years ago and I have a good memory - honest!); if smeared on some offensive implement the first could induce short-term unconciousness through the application of a light tap - probably best not tried at home, children - while the latter could reverse the effect. When administered via pea-shooter pellets and the like on the unsuspecting cheeks and necks of various officers of the law, members of the armed forces and various self-pompous representatives of local officialdom, this secret weapon could - and obviously did - lead rapidly to the belief that insurmountable terrorist forces were at work and that their subsequent demands should be taken seriously; such demands included, if I recall, an urgently-needed by-pass around St Asaph to ease bank-holiday congestion.
It all gets a bit hazy after that, but if anyone can either confirm my theory or pour cold water on it I would be most interested. Maybe it was J K Rowling's grandmother, after all!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I've read one of the Miss Pink novels. It was some sort of climbing-related mystery (I think there might have been something about was the rope cut or did the knot come undone accidentally), set in Skye I seem to recall. I definitely got to the end of it, so it must have been quite acceptable in a Dick Francis cum Enid Blyton sort of way.
I've read one of the Miss Pink novels. It was some sort of climbing-related mystery (I think there might have been something about was the rope cut or did the knot come undone accidentally), set in Skye I seem to recall. I definitely got to the end of it, so it must have been quite acceptable in a Dick Francis cum Enid Blyton sort of way.
Post edited at 08:20
In reply to John2:
Rhodesia (or Southern Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, since this thread is about precision). Commemorated here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=74650
He's still climbing, some good articles reproduced in this supertopo thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1941318/Rusty-Baillie-The-Globetrot...
(Started by that website's equivalent of jcm)
> RB was from South Africa, wasn't he?
Rhodesia (or Southern Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, since this thread is about precision). Commemorated here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=74650
He's still climbing, some good articles reproduced in this supertopo thread: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1941318/Rusty-Baillie-The-Globetrot...
(Started by that website's equivalent of jcm)
In reply to flaneur:
Thanks for that. What a superb article on the FA of the Old Man of Hoy - "Today we must succeed," Bonington announced, "or we will be too late for the Sunday edition".
Thanks for that. What a superb article on the FA of the Old Man of Hoy - "Today we must succeed," Bonington announced, "or we will be too late for the Sunday edition".
In reply to John2:
So do you think he someone who doesnt know what he is writing about or more that this was an embarrasing lapse of spelling/checking. Seems like you want your cake and to eat it with this verbal spanking.
In reply to Paul in Sheffield
No i didn't, I will look later. As another example from real life Moff climbed mount Elbrus on a Russian Visa that said she was a man. On the plus side most climbers climb and employ a better quality of banter around mistakes than the prim school teacherish stuff on show here. As another example we both had quite a few good evenings with Tony Greenbank in a pub in Ambleside having just met him on Little Cham (sic) where a certain one eyed climber was soloing a VS below us and we had of course displayed ignorance around the fine art of soloing and spotting famous climbers.
So do you think he someone who doesnt know what he is writing about or more that this was an embarrasing lapse of spelling/checking. Seems like you want your cake and to eat it with this verbal spanking.
In reply to Paul in Sheffield
No i didn't, I will look later. As another example from real life Moff climbed mount Elbrus on a Russian Visa that said she was a man. On the plus side most climbers climb and employ a better quality of banter around mistakes than the prim school teacherish stuff on show here. As another example we both had quite a few good evenings with Tony Greenbank in a pub in Ambleside having just met him on Little Cham (sic) where a certain one eyed climber was soloing a VS below us and we had of course displayed ignorance around the fine art of soloing and spotting famous climbers.
Post edited at 09:45
In reply to flaneur:
It does say he started climbing around Capetown, but if you say he was Rhodesian I'll take your word for it. I'd read Patey on the OMOH before, but enjoyable to read again having done it recently - that 'closest I've been to a peel for some time' section resonates rather more now I know exactly where he's talking about.
I always thought the famous Dreamboat Annie was just Al's description of his then girlfriend, but on googling I discover it's an album by Heart, whoever they are. Oh well.
So what episode does the Swanage RR commemorate, then?
jcm
It does say he started climbing around Capetown, but if you say he was Rhodesian I'll take your word for it. I'd read Patey on the OMOH before, but enjoyable to read again having done it recently - that 'closest I've been to a peel for some time' section resonates rather more now I know exactly where he's talking about.
I always thought the famous Dreamboat Annie was just Al's description of his then girlfriend, but on googling I discover it's an album by Heart, whoever they are. Oh well.
So what episode does the Swanage RR commemorate, then?
jcm
In reply to Offwidth:
>So do you think he someone who doesnt know what he is writing about or more that this was an embarrasing lapse of spelling/checking.
Well, the whole point of Action Directe, as is well known, is that it's named after a French terrorist group. So to spell it in English does suggest that the author doesn't know what he's writing about as well as he might, yes.
jcm
>So do you think he someone who doesnt know what he is writing about or more that this was an embarrasing lapse of spelling/checking.
Well, the whole point of Action Directe, as is well known, is that it's named after a French terrorist group. So to spell it in English does suggest that the author doesn't know what he's writing about as well as he might, yes.
jcm
In reply to Offwidth:
>The individual piece was written by Niall
Actually the errors mentioned span four pieces written by various people, including Ed Douglas.
jcm
>The individual piece was written by Niall
Actually the errors mentioned span four pieces written by various people, including Ed Douglas.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I see now, you think pretty much everyone at the BMC doesn't know what they are talking about, including Ed. Is this the start of a take-over bid?
I see now, you think pretty much everyone at the BMC doesn't know what they are talking about, including Ed. Is this the start of a take-over bid?
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