UKC

I have a couple of the regular-sized BD skyhooks, but I'm in need of something a little larger.. It needs to span a ledge of approximately 2 inches.

I'm sure I've seen them about before somewhere, but I'm not having any luck. It's potentially a really bomber placement and is not unlikely to see me fall onto it, so it would be good if it was an actual manufactured one, rather than a home-made jobby.

I'm happy to pay or trade or whatever. Thanks!

Franco

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Wasn't Andy Kirkpatrick selling this sort of stuff? Nothing on his website now though, perhaps he sold it all.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I have a couple exactly like you describe, but I have no idea what make they are and as I'm not going to be home for another month or so this post isn't a lot of use to you. Except to know they do exist!

In reply to john arran:

haha brilliant. I'm in no rush - need to source them for next spring probably.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Struggling to understand what you are after... A hook where the point is 2" from the side where your sling etc is attached? Or one that is 2" wide?

In reply to balmybaldwin:

So the hook can span over a 2 inch hold - the distance between the tip and the rest of the hook.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

These any good? http://www.needlesports.com/2297/products/black-diamond-grappling-hook.aspx

In reply to Rob Parsons:

I'm a fan of the grappling hook - 4cm or 1.5" to the tip.

In reply to Kafoozalem:

Ah right, thanks - probably don't fit the bill then.

To the OP: Fish make big ones - http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/hooks_heads.html

The website says 'sold out' - but, since you don't need them right now, maybe you could enquire.

In reply to Franco Cookson: I had exactly the sort of hook you're looking for, unfortunately I sold it along with almost all my other aid gear
Best of luck sourcing one.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I hope you are not thinking of using a skyhook in Northumberland?

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Have you had a look at cam hooks as they tend to come in bigger dimensions both depth and width.

On this web site you can click on "Ask tool man a question" they might be able to sort you out or even make some.

www.mtntools.com/toolman/index.html

In reply to Franco Cookson:

....Sandy Crag perchance.

In reply to petegunn:

Beat me to it.... great for granite aid as well.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Not cheap, but then as you know, nor are your legs!

http://blumental.us/store/products/pikamtncom

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Why not get some manufactured by a blacksmith ?

http://www.anvilman.co.uk/index.php

In reply to Franco Cookson:
Fish Products do make the 'Fish Hook', though it's out of stock right now http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/hooks_heads.html

Their ring angle version is in stock though and if you need a flat tip for more stability I'm sure you can modify/file the end down.

I think at one point Moses Climbing was also producing a large hook. Although I'm not 100% sure http://www.mosesclimbing.com/

You could also try maybe asking http://krukonogi.com/en/ to see if they can produce you a custom large hook. Being a smaller company than BD, maybe they're more receptive/able to do a custom job.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

TBH Franco you may as well make a purpose sized heavy duty on yourself.

Get a strip of steel and put a hole in one end.

Hammer it to the required shape. If you don't temper or harden it, think that the amount of energy to bend it into shape will be similar to that required to straighten it in a fall, ie it will be strong enough.

I cannot be bothered to do the maths but if a few folk can dead hang it together it will hold a fall, if it stays on, Blutack and duct tape.

A heavy duty home made hook will probably be stronger than factory produced light weights, you are only carrying one.

If its used on sandstone, expect the rock to fail first. Remember Steve is bigger than you

In reply to Franco Cookson:

how about put a bouldering mat on the ledge instead

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Definitely avoid the home made jobby skyhooks.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jobby

In reply to Franco Cookson:


The technical term is the 'gape' of the hook. http://stevenojai.tripod.com/images/hooks/hookanat_fr.jpg

Ask on Supertopo, they'll tell you who make suitable hooks. Failing all that use a filed down small boat anchor such as a Bruce type

In reply to Donald82:

You might try lorry tarpaulin hooks.

In reply to Steve Crowe:


What's the problem with using a skyhook in Northumberland?

In reply to timjones:

County Ethics. They are clearly presented in the introduction of the Northumberland Climbing Guide by the NMC.

In reply to timjones:

Due to its softness, the rock needs a little care. A fall onto a skyhook would most likely just snap the flake it's on.

In reply to Dervey:


It's obviously not a good idea on sandstone but unless my geographic/geologic perceptions are wrong there must be igneous crags in Northumberland?

In reply to timjones:

There's a few Dolorite crags (Crag Lough, Peel, a few others) and one main Andesite crag (Henhole) but when people say Northumberland they almost invariably mean sandstone.

In reply to Lemony:

I have an original Fish hook in good nick. 6cm gap. However I don't want to part with it. I can lend it to you. Usual terms and conditions. Replacement if damaged beyond use. Not sure Steve will thank me for posting this. I'm near to Wetherby.

In reply to Lemony:

You're right Lemony, when folks refer to Northumberland they are usually discussing Sandstone. We don't know the what or where regarding Franco's use of the skyhook he's seeking, but for those unfamiliar with the issue in Northumberland it's worth reiterating their unsuitability on the County's softer rock. A lot of what we climb on up here has to be treated gently if it is to survive. The principle applies to all pro, for example cams behind anything other than enormous flakes, gear at the edges of cracks and flakes and so on. A more subtle point is that if you are likely to fail, and fall, gear that rips may put you in a less than optimum position if or when when deck . Given the height of the routes in the County there's a good possibility of hitting the ground should gear or rock fail.

So, if it does fail or rip, you may get hurt and in doing so it will probably damage the rock, a good example can be seen on the layback flake of Lorraine. We need to remember there's nothing wrong in walking away and doing something else.......

Skyhooks are probably the most tenuous tool to use for pro. The last admitted to use in Northumberland was posted up on Youtube at the start of the year, on the classic 'On The Rocks' at Back Bowden. The hook ripped, thankfully with no damage to the route, (That was luck not design.) or indeed the climber, who was gracious enough to admit it was an error.

So, be careful about what you place and where, and aim to protect both yourself and the rock.

Cheers,

Steve

In reply to Franco Cookson:
I'll swap you one for a long weight...

In reply to Duncan Campbell:

I'll see your long weight and raise you a bubble for a spirit level and a tin of tartan paint.

In reply to SteveSBlake:

For interest, I had a German flatmate who was from the former DDR and had grown up with the knotted ropes-no chalk tradition. I took him to Kyloe out and he was outraged that nuts and cams were deemed acceptable. He refused to place anything except his knots, which worked fine (there was some live testing). On the journey back he kept banging on about the irony of brit pride over our natural gear tradition yet we used metal on sandstone. It was an interesting perspective. He thought Kyloe was one of the very best crags he'd been to anywhere.

In reply to Removed User:

Of course he would! I have yet to visit the German and Czech sandstone crags and it's probably good that I haven't. (I've tried to give up ritual humiliation!)

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake:

I would not worry too much, Elbe sandstone is definitely worth a trip. Of course the area is full of chop routes that can only be prettily decorated with knotted slings. However, quite a few routes at any level will also contain large bolts that are admittedly widely (and in many cases idiotically) spaced. Typically, the level of bolt protecting rises with the difficulty of the routes. I normally lead up to French 6c or so sport, and with dropping a couple of levels in difficulty I find enough routes that are safe enough for my taste. Hard to say exactly, but maybe a third of the routes that I would be able to competently second.

Rock quality also varies, Rathen is Weetabix, but parts of Bielatal and especially some crags like Tyca on the Czech side are harder than most grit outcrops. Also, on the Czech side you are not limited to free standing rocks, setting up topropes is therefore easy, just walk to the anchors and extend around the edge.

Finally, the Czechs have developed a new type of pro called Ufo, a kind of active camming device made entirely from webbing. Essentially it is pack of webbing rolled up and tightly sewn into a wedge shape that is under load pulled into an outer, V shaped piece of webbing coated with rubber, which then expands. Much better and trustworthy for protecting sandstone cracks than the traditional slings (although a loosely tied figure of eight can also fitted into a crack so it expands under load, makes bomber placements if you have suitable constrictions). Buying a set of Ufos has expanded the number of routes I am comfortable to lead by quite a bit.

CB

In reply to cb294:

I've been aware of the Czech sandstone since the 70s when a friend gave me a book about the Skalak rock towers, it's in my library somewhere. There's quite a few videos of climbing over there. I was recently entertained by this one....

vimeo.com/85903606

The body stack technique could be very useful at Bowden!

Steve

In reply to SteveSBlake:

Traditional body stacks are hardly done anymore, most of the bits where they used to be done have since been freed. However, climbing clubs sometimes go and build the biggest stacks possible.
The German comment in your video was very funny, at around 12 min some crack climbers discuss how to get to the top after the crack runs out. Solution: Find a useful idiot happy to lead the final slab pitch, something no one in their right minds would be willing to do.

CB

In reply to Steve Crowe:

I can't find any mention of skyhooks in the NMC guide.

I think knee-jerk reactions like this are pretty unhelpful. A taped-up hook on a ledge (this isn't a flake - hence the need for a large one) is unlikely to cause any damage to a route. To arbitrarily ban them seems a bit daft.

I think of far greater concern is excessive top-roping or ground-uping. Many of us may be guilty of that.

Thanks for all the kind replies and emails.

In reply to Franco Cookson: Using a skyhook on sandstone is clearly a bad idea. It is a very soft rock (as you well know) and can shatter easily. Even on a ledge, the potential for permanent damage is high in the event of a fall. Which you, in your first post said was 'not unlikely to see me fall onto it'.

Andy F

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I'm with Andy on this one, I wouldn't like to see it done as the potential for damage is just too high. Even one fall would liklely gouge a fairly significant groove . Though I know you're no stranger to hard sandstone routes, so you know all this.

Defintely not knee-jerk by the way, in fact a rather considered opinion.

In reply to Dervey

I can understand why you might think a normal hook would damage sandstone, but have either of you ever fallen on or tested a hook with a tape- covered point? They really don't damage the rock. The tape acts as a cushion and helps it seat better. Seems very strange to comment with such certainty on a placement you don't know at a crag you presumably don't know very well.

I had the same kinds of messages after using a hook on Divine Moments of Truth - from people who didn't realise it was in an iron pocket. I'm not sure at what point people might start trusting my judgment on a rock type I know a little about now..

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Valid points Franco, thanks for taking the time to address my concerns. I wasn't commenting on the exact placement, but more generally. If you say it'll cause no damage then I'll take it at that.

Good luck on the new route!

In reply to Franco Cookson:



I may not know the exact crag but I have climbed on a fair bit of sandstone. I hope you are right about taping the tip protecting the rock.

Andy F

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I'm sure Franco wouldn't do the route if he thought it would damage the route, he's as much a rock fan as any one of us, especially that shite sandy stuff.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

By springtime, Northumbrian sandstone will be even softer than usual due to the constant rain and snow we always get through the winter. best to stay well away until mid summer.

In reply to graeme jackson:

Right on brother.