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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Hardly earth shaking news since Labour only lost 2.2% of the vote they had last time.
Considering what the Labour party have been putting themselves through in the past year I'd say it's not such a bad result. Hopefully the bickering will stop and Labour can start building on a solid foundation.
And Enright was one of the traitor PLP who voted for a new leadership election, so he's hardly a Corbyn supporter, so maybe the core Labour voters in Whitney were voicing there disdain towards Enright.
No of this hardly supports your implication that its the fault of Corbyn.
Hardly earth shaking news since Labour only lost 2.2% of the vote they had last time.
Considering what the Labour party have been putting themselves through in the past year I'd say it's not such a bad result. Hopefully the bickering will stop and Labour can start building on a solid foundation.
And Enright was one of the traitor PLP who voted for a new leadership election, so he's hardly a Corbyn supporter, so maybe the core Labour voters in Whitney were voicing there disdain towards Enright.
No of this hardly supports your implication that its the fault of Corbyn.
Post edited at 10:02
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
What's that got to do with Jeremy (assuming you mean Corbyn?) Didn't the tories drop 15,000 votes?
> He's made the LibDems look electable again!
What's that got to do with Jeremy (assuming you mean Corbyn?) Didn't the tories drop 15,000 votes?
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In reply to RyanOsborne:
turnout was shit though.
It doesnt show anything useful beyond, maybe, that people are thinking about forgiving the lib dems and returning them to the second place they had for the last couple of elections before their 2015 wipe out.
turnout was shit though.
It doesnt show anything useful beyond, maybe, that people are thinking about forgiving the lib dems and returning them to the second place they had for the last couple of elections before their 2015 wipe out.
In reply to KevinD:
As a "Remain" constituency, I would imagine it show that the Tory faithful are unhappy with the way May and Brexit are progressing and are protesting. Not sure it implies anything more than that?
As a "Remain" constituency, I would imagine it show that the Tory faithful are unhappy with the way May and Brexit are progressing and are protesting. Not sure it implies anything more than that?
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In reply to krikoman:
No, but nor does it indicate that Corbyn is making an impact on the middle ground that Labour needs to win if they are ever going to challenge the Tories. And as people see the LibDems becoming credible again, that will make the task even harder.
This is hardly earth shattering to most of us, sadly predictable would be a better way of putting it.
No, but nor does it indicate that Corbyn is making an impact on the middle ground that Labour needs to win if they are ever going to challenge the Tories. And as people see the LibDems becoming credible again, that will make the task even harder.
This is hardly earth shattering to most of us, sadly predictable would be a better way of putting it.
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In reply to galpinos:
I am not sure it even shows that much. The crap turnout and switch from PM to unknown all throw chaff up.
Libdems apparently also threw people at it at a level they couldnt sustain at GE.
> Not sure it implies anything more than that?
I am not sure it even shows that much. The crap turnout and switch from PM to unknown all throw chaff up.
Libdems apparently also threw people at it at a level they couldnt sustain at GE.
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In reply to krikoman:
It's hard to interpret as anything other than a disaster for the 'main' opposition party given that a) oppositions would usually be expected to poll much better in by-elections than in general elections, and b) the Tory candidate was a relative nobody rather than the ultimately high profile current PM. That Labour's share of the vote actually went down in those circumstances says a great deal about its current focus on party members above electability.
It's hard to interpret as anything other than a disaster for the 'main' opposition party given that a) oppositions would usually be expected to poll much better in by-elections than in general elections, and b) the Tory candidate was a relative nobody rather than the ultimately high profile current PM. That Labour's share of the vote actually went down in those circumstances says a great deal about its current focus on party members above electability.
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In reply to KevinD:
It was a by-election, that's what one does; assuming a modicum of political nous, of course.
> Libdems apparently also threw people at it at a level they couldnt sustain at GE.
It was a by-election, that's what one does; assuming a modicum of political nous, of course.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
It quite clearly means whatever each particular commentator wants it to mean.
It quite clearly means whatever each particular commentator wants it to mean.
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In reply to Mike Highbury:
or if you want to burn through funds and volunteer goodwill.
> It was a by-election, that's what one does; assuming a modicum of political nous, of course.
or if you want to burn through funds and volunteer goodwill.
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In reply to KevinD:
I would imagine the volunteers are pretty chuffed with the results of their efforts, tbh.
I would imagine the volunteers are pretty chuffed with the results of their efforts, tbh.
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In reply to KevinD:
Do you think it would be a better use of funds to hold more meeting of the converted to congratulate themselves on the finer points of policies they'd never get chance to enact unless they actually communicated with the wider electorate at some stage?
> or if you want to burn through funds and volunteer goodwill.
Do you think it would be a better use of funds to hold more meeting of the converted to congratulate themselves on the finer points of policies they'd never get chance to enact unless they actually communicated with the wider electorate at some stage?
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Does anyone else remember the spitting image spoof of "call my bluff", where MPs of the day were asked to define "second place in a by election" ? basically any definition you wanted.
Does anyone else remember the spitting image spoof of "call my bluff", where MPs of the day were asked to define "second place in a by election" ? basically any definition you wanted.
In reply to john arran:
You don't think it could be opposition to the candidate rather than Labour then?
Given the same situation, I might struggle to vote for what I perceive as a traitor to the party, and I'm a moderate (ish) so it's not surprising at all to me that some Labour voters desert their only candidate on offer.
> It's hard to interpret as anything other than a disaster for the 'main' opposition party given that
You don't think it could be opposition to the candidate rather than Labour then?
Given the same situation, I might struggle to vote for what I perceive as a traitor to the party, and I'm a moderate (ish) so it's not surprising at all to me that some Labour voters desert their only candidate on offer.
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
To be back in the same position as 2010 after throwing everything they had at it?
Like most of the recent results doesnt really show anything useful. Its more of Roschach test. People are going to see what they want.
> I would imagine the volunteers are pretty chuffed with the results of their efforts, tbh.
To be back in the same position as 2010 after throwing everything they had at it?
Like most of the recent results doesnt really show anything useful. Its more of Roschach test. People are going to see what they want.
In reply to krikoman:
If a party is not fielding an electable candidate surely that's a disaster in itself. You could also, of course, say something similar about the party leader.
If a party is not fielding an electable candidate surely that's a disaster in itself. You could also, of course, say something similar about the party leader.
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In reply to Sir Chasm:
I'm suggesting there's a lot of ill feeling towards a number of Labour MPs and to read anything more into a Tory safe seat with regards to a Labour GE is basically looking at tea leaves and predicting the future.
The original OP was a ludicrous as that, and a poor attempt to link Corbyn to the end of the world as we know it. There are myriad reasons for a drop of 2.2% and yes some of them could have been due to JC being leader of the Labour party but "some" being the operative word.
Integrity of the person you voting for may have a far high influence on who people vote for.
After all it was the integrity of Clegg and his "no tuition fees" that lost most of the support for the LibDems in the first place.
> Are you suggesting that the 172 traitorous labour MPs should be de-selected?
I'm suggesting there's a lot of ill feeling towards a number of Labour MPs and to read anything more into a Tory safe seat with regards to a Labour GE is basically looking at tea leaves and predicting the future.
The original OP was a ludicrous as that, and a poor attempt to link Corbyn to the end of the world as we know it. There are myriad reasons for a drop of 2.2% and yes some of them could have been due to JC being leader of the Labour party but "some" being the operative word.
Integrity of the person you voting for may have a far high influence on who people vote for.
After all it was the integrity of Clegg and his "no tuition fees" that lost most of the support for the LibDems in the first place.
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In reply to john arran:
No, you could
> You could also, of course, say something similar about the party leader.
No, you could
In reply to krikoman:
'The original OP was a ludicrous as that, and a poor attempt to link Corbyn to the end of the world as we know it.'
No; it was an observation that HM 'official' opposition couldn't even maintain it's share of the vote in the context of a government that has pretty much got us into the worst financial and political crisis since WWII, and instead lost ground to a party which - as you noted - was supposedly blown out of the water 6 years ago.
'The original OP was a ludicrous as that, and a poor attempt to link Corbyn to the end of the world as we know it.'
No; it was an observation that HM 'official' opposition couldn't even maintain it's share of the vote in the context of a government that has pretty much got us into the worst financial and political crisis since WWII, and instead lost ground to a party which - as you noted - was supposedly blown out of the water 6 years ago.
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In reply to krikoman:
All the traitor talk doesn't make you sound very moderate.
> what I perceive as a traitor to the party, and I'm a moderate (ish)
All the traitor talk doesn't make you sound very moderate.
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In reply to TobyA:
They aint. They are about as far one way as some of the others are the other way.
> All the traitor talk doesn't make you sound very moderate.
They aint. They are about as far one way as some of the others are the other way.
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In reply to krikoman:
You're something of a Corbynista, though, aren't you?
I suspect the general electorate don't view the shenanigans in the Labour Party as the treachery that you see. They may see a shambles, but I doubt if many of them consider the anti-Corbyn members of the PLP to be 'traitors'.
They just see the Labour Party in a mess, and don't think they're currently worth voting for, no matter what candidate was put forward.
It's worth remembering, once again, that the vast majority of the electorate are not members of any political party.
> Given the same situation, I might struggle to vote for what I perceive as a traitor to the party,
You're something of a Corbynista, though, aren't you?
I suspect the general electorate don't view the shenanigans in the Labour Party as the treachery that you see. They may see a shambles, but I doubt if many of them consider the anti-Corbyn members of the PLP to be 'traitors'.
They just see the Labour Party in a mess, and don't think they're currently worth voting for, no matter what candidate was put forward.
It's worth remembering, once again, that the vast majority of the electorate are not members of any political party.
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In reply to TobyA:
I did say "ish". Like most things in life it's not simple, there are shades of treachery that were demonstrated during the recent Labour troubles, I don't for one second imagine it's over.
But at the risk of repeating myself it's not about JC but the process of the election and the reaction and actions of the PLP who didn't like the result.
I just don't think the dust has settled from the second leadership election yet, and I do think that those who tried to oust JC may find it hard in the short term to convince the electorate they are sound people to vote for.
We'll see what happens, people forgive and move on, but it just takes a little time. This is aptly demonstrated by the LibDem result.
> All the traitor talk doesn't make you sound very moderate.
I did say "ish". Like most things in life it's not simple, there are shades of treachery that were demonstrated during the recent Labour troubles, I don't for one second imagine it's over.
But at the risk of repeating myself it's not about JC but the process of the election and the reaction and actions of the PLP who didn't like the result.
I just don't think the dust has settled from the second leadership election yet, and I do think that those who tried to oust JC may find it hard in the short term to convince the electorate they are sound people to vote for.
We'll see what happens, people forgive and move on, but it just takes a little time. This is aptly demonstrated by the LibDem result.
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In reply to krikoman:
you should hope the public do, otherwise after 2020 the SNP and/or the LibDems will have more MPs in westminister than labour.
> I do think that those who tried to oust JC may find it hard in the short term to convince the electorate they are sound people to vote for.
you should hope the public do, otherwise after 2020 the SNP and/or the LibDems will have more MPs in westminister than labour.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Are you encouraged by this result, you being a Tory voter?
An answer to the latter part would be most appreciated, thank you.
Are you encouraged by this result, you being a Tory voter?
An answer to the latter part would be most appreciated, thank you.
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In reply to Lusk:
Sorry to disappoint you but I've never voted Tory and never will. It isn't going to happen.
Sorry to disappoint you but I've never voted Tory and never will. It isn't going to happen.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Has anyone stopped to think that this may be disaffected tories shifting. Given I can't imagine a Tory voting labour of any flavour it leaves not voting or the lib demos. I've done the same after I got fed up with new labour. No way I could vote Tory, so I switched to the lib demos as a protest, as I think one should vote.
Has anyone stopped to think that this may be disaffected tories shifting. Given I can't imagine a Tory voting labour of any flavour it leaves not voting or the lib demos. I've done the same after I got fed up with new labour. No way I could vote Tory, so I switched to the lib demos as a protest, as I think one should vote.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Argh, you bugger, I'm looking for a Tory voter, Remain voter and who complains about the result.
I know they're on here!
As for your voting history, keep it up.
Argh, you bugger, I'm looking for a Tory voter, Remain voter and who complains about the result.
I know they're on here!
As for your voting history, keep it up.
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In reply to krikoman:
Dood. Stop talking about treachery. It's childish and unhelpful.
Seriously. Think about it.
jcm
Dood. Stop talking about treachery. It's childish and unhelpful.
Seriously. Think about it.
jcm
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
You Should. When you come out of the closet everything will seem different. So much less difficult. There's so many shades of blue in the rainbow.
D
> Sorry to disappoint you but I've never voted Tory and never will. It isn't going to happen.
You Should. When you come out of the closet everything will seem different. So much less difficult. There's so many shades of blue in the rainbow.
D
In reply to captain paranoia:
Let's face it. The biggest traitor in Labours history, if you count voting against the Labour Whips, is JC himself. I imagine that the PLP wish that they had de-selected him for his dis-loyalty. Now that he is in charge, he will not court any opposition. Looks like a replay of the Lenin/Stalin saga, but hopefully there will be fewer than 20 million deaths!
Let's face it. The biggest traitor in Labours history, if you count voting against the Labour Whips, is JC himself. I imagine that the PLP wish that they had de-selected him for his dis-loyalty. Now that he is in charge, he will not court any opposition. Looks like a replay of the Lenin/Stalin saga, but hopefully there will be fewer than 20 million deaths!
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In reply to Dauphin:
It isn't going to happen. Being on the same side as May ('Ooh they don't like us very much do they, how mean!') Cameron - David Davis (x2) - Redwood - Hunt - Ledsome . I'd rather chew my arm off.
It isn't going to happen. Being on the same side as May ('Ooh they don't like us very much do they, how mean!') Cameron - David Davis (x2) - Redwood - Hunt - Ledsome . I'd rather chew my arm off.
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> No, but nor does it indicate that Corbyn is making an impact on the middle ground that Labour needs to win if they are ever going to challenge the Tories. And as people see the LibDems becoming credible again, that will make the task even harder.
Thing is, there's no point in making an impact on th middle ground if it means being a pro- rich, anti immigration/ racist party like the tories. What Corbyn's about (and I still have serious reservations about him) is recovering alienated old labour supporters and capturing new (young) voters who can't get a decent job/ can't afford student loans/ are stuck in private rented accommodation. I just wish he would bloody well focus on the core issues and stop farting about on the floors of Network Southeast trains - which are of no interest to voters inGrimsby or Glasgow.
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In reply to colinakmc:
You're joking, right?
> Thing is, there's no point in making an impact on th middle ground if it means being a pro- rich, anti immigration/ racist party like the tories. What Corbyn's about (and I still have serious reservations about him) is recovering alienated old labour supporters and capturing new (young) voters who can't get a decent job/ can't afford student loans/ are stuck in private rented accommodation. I just wish he would bloody well focus on the core issues and stop farting about on the floors of Network Southeast trains - which are of no interest to voters inGrimsby or Glasgow.
You're joking, right?
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