In reply to UKC Articles:
Interesting article and I think a good forum discussion with lots of men talking about their own preconceptions. Hope it carries on.
I've been reading a lot about this issue recently ever since the furore over the piece that appeared on Evening Sends a few months ago provocatively, and wrongly IMO titled 'when feminism goes too far.' There were a lot of issues with this piece,not least the shonky referencing which suggested some substandard research, but the fact remains that it was an important piece because it highlighted the view of a good chunk of the female climbing community, namely that in their experience they haven't encountered sexism in climbing. A lot of women, however have, and that suggests that there is certainly a problem. The scale of the debate but suggests that it's not a universal problem and so we shouldn't dismiss anyone's experience based on 'thats not what I felt.'
I wanted to ask what people thought about these two passages. Both written about women trying hard problems/routes, but with different suggestions about how to respond as a man in that situation. In this piece:
'If the guys fall off, this is usually met with comments such as “You mad bastard! That was badass!” or “It’s about time you fell off: now you know where your limits lie”, and even better “You wouldn’t have fallen off if you’d just cranked a little bit harder”. For the girls, it’s a different story: “Are you okay? That fall looked really scary”, “You don’t need to try it again if you’re not comfortable with it” or “If you like you could stick to seconding until you get your confidence back”.
In this piece by Shelma Jun:“
I’ve got you, Shelma,” my friend Mel said. “You can bail or try the crux, whatever you want to do, I’ve got you.” Her words of encouragement were soothing; I fully believed that she was there supporting me and my decision, whatever it might be. Rewind to a year earlier: same problem, male spotters. "Just stand on your leg and reach up,” one said. "You’ll be fine, just do the move,” said another.
I felt pressure not to appear weak, as if I were whining by confessing my fears of making that crux move so high off the ground. Unconsciously, I acted totally differently. Even in my own head, I told myself I needed to “man up.”
In similar situations, I can say with 100% confidence that I have encouraged both male and female climbers the same way, basically by telling them to go for it. This has always seemed to me to be the way to go because if I was to change my attitude because it was a woman climbing, I'd be in the wrong. I was really interested to read this piece by Shelma Jun because it really challenged that view. But this UKC piece suggests I might have been right before. Obviously, the truth is that every person, male or female, is different and each route/problem is different so having 'rules' on how to respond are counter productive. But in a pinch, I'm always going to tell people to go for it because it's how I always am!
So the question is, what's the best rule of thumb to suggest to make climbers? Because here we have two strands of the female climbing community with diametrically opposed views on how to react in this situation. Maybe we can't even have a rule of thumb? I'm not sure. Interested to hear what people, especially female users, think.