UKC

Looking to make the step up to multi-pitch routes? British Mountain Guide Polly Harmer recommends her top beginner spots in North Wales.

If you've been trad climbing on your local crags and you're starting to plan a bigger multi-pitch trip, then North Wales is a great place to start. This...

Read more

In reply to UKC Articles:

A welcome article with a selection I agree with. As a minor point it would have been nice to see a warning about the standard descent for the longest lower routes on Idwall Slabs, as this can become a cold snarl-up leading to too many MR call- outs. If there is any queue at all it's quicker and way warmer to scramble up left of the upper walls and take the path down from Cwm Cneifion. Milestone Buttress too often suffers a similar problem, where again you can scramble up and walk off behind. 

In reply to UKC Articles:

Whilst I don't doubt the good intentions behind that article, some of the suggestions are a bit rum.  I wouldn't hesitate to climb Striptease or Continuation Crack with someone new to multipitch climbing, as I wouldn't even attempt them with someone new to that part of the game.

Otherwise, there are some good suggestions for venues there.  The most important things I've always found when climbing with someone that hasn't done a multipitch route before are a refresher on calls are going to be used and having a clear line of sight so that progress can be assessed and help offered if needed.  It's the second reason that makes the Slabs so popular as a venue for starting longer routes.

T.

In reply to Tony Buckley:

That all depends on the skills of the 'beginner' who is maybe progressing well climbing outdoors but is new to multipich. I've taken such who were good on gritstone cracks to second me up those. The biggest issue I've seen for those on their first multipitch (in taking hundreds there over the decades, in a Uni club, and talking to Ogwen MR quite a few times) seems to be escape (due to unexpected bad weather, queues or a minor accident) or tricky descents, slowing things and leading to exposure.

In reply to UKC Articles:

A nice article. However my strong advice to people reading it and contemplating these routes is this: get a guide, at least for a day or two. 

These days people think that if they've got the right gear and they can 'build a belay', it'll work. There's a ton of things which can go wrong - communication, routefinding and weather, to name but three. A guide won't just check out your technical skills (e.g. placing gear). Hopefully some 'climbing wisdom' will be imparted. And ultimately it's 'climbing wisdom' which will keep you alive.

Anyway, good luck to all heading out on these routes. A lifetime of adventure beckons. Just be as safe as you can. 

Mick 

In reply to UKC Articles:

My experience as a relative beginner who's led a handful of these routes, minus a guide or mentor. 

After spending a season on the grit I was eager to try some multipitch. Having no formal training or mentor, and armed only with my at the time meagre rack and totally inexperienced girlfriend I decided on Flying Butress on the Cromlech to start. What an adventure it was, the climbing was easy for me, but the nerves and feeling of questing into the unknown was strong. I worried about the top pitch, wondering if my girlfriend would struggle. But we got through it. Enough excitement for one day.

The following day we went back to the Pass, and set off on Crackstone Rib. Perhaps a bit ambitious in hindsight, but all's well that ends well. I laced the traverse and rib with gear. Alas, when I arrived on the ledge I had nothing left but a few slings. Took a bit of imagination to build a belay. My poor girlfriend dare not look down on the rib. 'Just keep climbing and I'll keep taking in I said'. 

The second pitch contains the only move of any difficulty, subjectively of course. She just couldn't do it. However, fortunately you can avoid it entirely by dropping to the ledge and traversing below it. Another great adventure and more than enough for a weekend. 

I've since been back and done a fair bit of the list in the article. And other great easy adventures in the lakes and Cornwall. I always keep them well within my physical ability. And back off when we can't continue or it feels unsafe. I've backed of Noahs Warning at the Cromlech, and gone back the following year to cruise up it. 

Overall a good article, some of the routes seem stiff, but the willingness to back off and go home should be highlighted for sure 

In reply to JamesG:

I'm curious about Holyhead Mountain. I went there with my partner who leads S/HS when going well and there didn't seem to be any suitable routes? After much deliberation we ended up on a 0 star Severe which she had a mare on and lowered off in tears. I went up it to get the gear and felt it closer to VS 4b. 

I remember looking at the one or two routes below VS that got a star and I think they were wide cracks that would either be mighty bold or require a big cam (and experience with 'trad-style' climbing).

Quartzite is also a difficult rock to get used to initially, both in how to use the holds and place good gear. 

It is a cracking venue for VS/HVS but is that really 'Beginner'? It's also virtually all single pitch so doesn't seem to fit the 'Best Beginner Multi-Pitch' venues the title of the article suggests. 

In reply to PaulJepson:

Central Slab at Holyhead Mountain comes to mind - several fun VDiffs there with the option to break into two pitches (though some of them can feel quite bold).  I agree it's not a multipitch paradise.  

In reply to UKC Articles:

A couple of places to consider for medium grade routes are Cwm Silyn and Tryfan. Quality and both give good mountain experiences.

In reply to Tony Buckley:

A busy day on Idwall wouldn't be the same without dropped gear flying down the slabs at you or people getting taken off belay willy nilly. Continuation Crack and Original Route are also pretty hard from memory. I think Idwall is a great place for an experienced person to take a newbie and let them get stuck in with an experienced eye watching over, but an entire party of newbies can be a hazard. The best places for new multi-pitchers in my opinion are Tremadog and the crags in the pass like Cromlech and Wastad. 

In reply to Sean Kelly:

For beginners..?

In reply to PaulJepson:

Hmm. Tremadog has a couple of good beginner routes. I'd certainly rate plenty of other places above Cromlech and Wastad though.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Might be interesting if the 14 objectors climb out from behind the comfort of their keyboards and offer some viable counter arguments. 

Let's be hearing you! 

Mick 

In reply to Mick Ward:

I wasn't one of your objectors but the obvious argument against you is cost.  Climbers, especially at the start of their climbing, are often an impecunious lot and gear and transport ain't cheap.  Hiring a guide might be an expense too far for many when lots of knowledge can be acquired free from others they know with more experience.  Distilling this all into climbing nous, to use an old-fashioned term, takes personal experience, honest self-analysis, a bit of humility and time, even with help, even with the best of help.  Sure, a guide would help a great deal but would someone beginning multipitch climbing rather have that experience or a few new cams and trips away?

I know what I'd say now, but I also know what I'd have said when I was younger, keen as mustard, too skint to afford cams and guides were beyond my aspirations.

T.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Pedantic editing note:

The Idwal section refers to 'Original Route' on Holly Tree Wall but the picture show Mr Reeves on 'Ordinary Route' on the lower slabs..

Shurely Shome Mishtake?

In reply to Tony Buckley:

Cost is certainly an argument. I started with very little. My first lead was a 500 foot route. I only had a couple of slings and very basic nuts. Either four or six krabs (I know it was an even number!) No screwgates. I probably placed no more than five runners - roughly one every hundred feet.

But I'm constantly amazed at what climbers spend on gear these days. Hundreds of pounds on a jacket. Really? 

The problem with getting knowledge free from others is... how good is it? My early climbing mentors were frankly incompetent. I'm still grateful to them, mind you. They did their best. 

I'm not a guide or instructor; I have no personal axe to grind. But I think hiring a professional is probably the best investment a contemporary climber (coming from a wall and with limited sport experience?) can make in trad. Trad is unforgiving. It's the real deal. 

Agree, what you call climbing nous and I call climbing wisdom takes experience, self-analysis, humility and time - however you go about it. 

Thanks for your input. 

Mick 

In reply to Mick Ward:

I disliked the idea that a relative beginner, getting into an adventure sport, having read the article about friendly places to get started, should go and pay someone, (maybe an expert) to show them how to do it. Kind of destroys the adventure I thought. For me, one of the great things about getting into climbing was that there was nobody telling you what to do.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

These were my first choices for mountain routes. Didn't have much of a clue, but they were perfect places to learn.

In reply to PaulJepson:

Plenty of starred stuff at S or below.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/holyhead_mountain-616/

In reply to alan moore:

I think that's fine as long as your partner has the same adventurous approach and you both accept the risks of your lack of knowledge and skill. 

Self-rescue is an under-rated skill IMV.  Youthful exuberance and athleticism count for naught if your 2nd has smashed their knee after a short fall and you're tight on your belay and 100m up some high mountain face.  

In reply to UKC Articles:

I think good beginner crags / routes are complex. It's not just the grade, but having an obvious line, spacious stances, gear where it's needed, no bizarre or bold moves relative to the grade, straight forward descents. 

You often see people who can in a measured way cope with VDiff up Idwal or Milestone, but make a dogs dinner of the descent route. 

Most crags have several good beginner routes, but you only know them once you've climbed many routes there and aren't a beginner.

Best multipitch location, Craig yr Oen, Moelwyns. You can identify the line stood at the road, most routes go straight up, stances are reasonably sized and 25m or less apart, obvious walking descent route. 

In reply to UKC Articles:

Great article. One minor correction - Slack HVS variation (HVS 5b) is at Clogwyn yr Oen, not Tremadog.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Somewhat surprised by the choice of crags. Lion Rock?? Ok the author says it’s not multi pitch, so to my mind, why include it? Holyhead Mountain? Again, you really have to struggle to find multipitch here. And why has the both Milestone Buttress and the East Face of Tryfan been left out? 

In reply to Mick Ward:

I think much more widespread knowledge, many more climbers (who know what they are doing), lots of online groups (as well as traditional mountaineering clubs), and of course better gear are all helping people to be a bit more self sufficient with a reasonable degree of safety. There are many more ways to connect with competent mentors than hiring a guide, though I guess there is a greater chance that the mentor is likely to be competent if they are one.

In reply to alan moore:

Totally agree. That's what I loved about climbing. But I think that nowadays people actively want to be told what to do. "Should I get a gold or purple cam?"  "What's the best way up..." 

I see people on Portland who can't find really obvious crags. They haven't done any preparation whatsoever, just rock up on the day. They wave their Rockfaxes and (increasingly) phones around and haven't got a clue.

What's going to happen to them when they go into the mountains? I shudder to think. 

Mick 

In reply to Martin Bagshaw:

Highly debatable I'd have thought. In fact I'd argue the opposite. I think people are becoming far too reliant on gear, thinking the answer lies in technology. 

Is camming a gritstone crack to death being more self-sufficient? Not in my book.

What if someone's phone fails on Tryfan in bad conditions and they can't map read (or don't even have a map and compass?) 

And therein lies the rub. If someone's a guide, I think you've upped your chances of competence to close on 100%. And it's not just competence you're getting. If they're any good, they'll analyse their clients and help accordingly. Climbing wisdom/nous. Hard to put a price on that. On your own, it's hard earned. Believe me, I know. 

Mick 

In reply to Mick Ward:

Maybe good advice should never be general? 

If you have the means then hiring a guide for a couple of days is definitely going to decrease the learning curve. If you have the means and more time a course at PyB or similar would be even better.

If you can't throw £00s at instruction then finding a club / mentor is going to work better than an evening on YouTube and Google then turning up at a mountain crag with your equally keen and equally "competent" partner.

(I didn't dislike your post btw, but it's a far cry from the spirit of "Let's go climbing")

In reply to Andy Hardy:

If by "even better" you mean less bespoke and roulette of which guide you might get then I'd agree. 

In reply to Mick Ward:

It's an interesting conversation and I can see things from both sides but definitely agree with Mick to a degree. The problem with newbies learning from other people is that they have no idea if what they're being taught is right/safe and if they're having vital information left out. What may feel comprehensive could be leaving gaping holes in your knowledge.  

Guides with professional qualifications are drilled and cover all bases and take these sorts of people out on a weekly basis. They won't leave anything out. If you go on a 'learn to multi-pitch' course with an instructor, you can guarantee that you will cover all the knowledge you need to know to do that. Otherwise the course/weekend wouldn't be called that. If you go out with some dude who messaged you on facebook, you might feel like you've learned the tools to do this but you won't know whether you actually have, and chances are that you'll be lacking in some potentially critical knowledge.

I learned from being in a club, which was pretty good as you could get a feel for who knew what they were doing and who was better avoided. There are plenty of people about who fall into that latter category though, and I climbed with a few of them before I had a clue what I was doing.

I inwardly shudder every time I see someone post in a social media group saying they are brand new and want to pair up and learn the ropes in exchange for 'cake' or 'psych' or 'bad jokes'. Mostly because if it happens to be a woman then they'll get inundated with offers. 

Adventure and ignorance don't necessarily have to go hand in hand.

In reply to PaulJepson:

If I was teaching a multi pitch course Holyhead mountain would be a last resort if the weather was bad everywhere else. Lion rock is also a bit of an odd choice, but if your learners are really struggling or you don't have much time I suppose it could be ok. (It's close to the beacon at least).

It's a bit more related to traditional climbing in general but I wrote a few quick thoughts about the different avenues for getting started here;

https://www.howtoclimb.co.uk/post/how-to-start-trad-climbing

In reply to Mark Kemball:

I think we all can sometimes forget 'multipitch beginners' covers a wide range of skills and climbing experience. Places like Lion Rock and Tryfan Fach are brilliant for the lower end of the skills & experience combination, where a line (which could be a single pitch on 60m ropes), can be split into multiple pitches to build confidence without worrying about the extra risk factors you get on the longer higher mountain routes.  I think it's great Polly included them for that reason.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Am not bothered by dislikes. But they shouldn't be a lazy substitute for discussion. And this is an important discussion. Would be interesting to see MRT members' viewpoints? 

The times have moved on from 'Let's Go Climbing'. It's not the 1940s any more. I don't see much self-reliance anywhere these days. 

Anyway 'Let's Go Climbing' nearly got me killed. Kirkus never said he'd been the boldest climber of his generation. He never mentioned the suicide club. Although he did refer to the accident (which was maybe waiting to happen), iirc he never put it into perspective or mentioned the fatality. 

I thought he was a normal climber. He wasn't! He told how he went out into the mountains, soloing, as a beginner. I thought that's what you did. So that's what I did. Kirkus nearly died; I nearly died.

However affectionate we may feel about 'Let's Go Climbing', iirc it poses a very dangerous example  indeed.

Mick 

In reply to PaulJepson:

Indeed! But when they do go hand in hand, sadly there's a probable outcome. 

"It's a fine line between badass and dumb!" (Jim Bridwell)

Mick 

In reply to alan moore:

I've only climbed there since the rockfall but I wouldn't go back having seen how much loose rock there is perched along the top ledge above the routes.

We climbed Kirkus route which wasn't amazingly easy to protect lower down, hollow in places and now has a (presumably) harder last pitch.

In reply to Climbing Stew:

By even better, I meant there'd be more instruction, over several consecutive days, hopefully leading to a more thorough grounding in multi pitch climbing.

Picking a guide from the yellow pages as a complete novice would be just as much of a lottery 

In reply to Mick Ward:

Fair points. I am fond of L.G.C., but for the attitude rather than the practicalities.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Me too! Love his spirit. If you've not already done so, Steve Dean's 'Hands of a Climber' is well worth reading. 

Such a sad ending. I think that, for many, he will always hold a special place in our affections. Once was privileged to meet his brother, Guy - such a lovely man. Typical of that generation which gave so much. 

Mick 

In reply to Alex Riley:

If you are teaching multi pitch, you don't necessarily need a 50+m crag with multi pitch routes, but a crag where you can pitch several times, even if the pitches are shorter than the guidebook description. It's often better for a novice to just lead off, place a few runners then set up a new stance 10-20m away. So they don't feel over extended 40m up a crag out of sight, plus the oft more experienced second can still see what's occuring and offer some guidance. 

Holyhead Mountain has a few longish good easy lines, which are often doable in 3 pitches, even when damp and it's a wash out in the hills. No one learns new skills well if they are survival climbing hiding in their hoods etc..

In reply to ExiledScot:

I don't disagree, but I've taught at Holyhead and all the other venues quite a lot and i find people struggle with placing gear and feeling confident in their movement at Holyhead compared to any of the other places mentioned.

In reply to Alex Riley:

As you say, rock is a bit tricky to get “text book” placements. Quite good for a week long course, less so for a two dayer. 

Needs must on a grim day in the mountains though I guess!

In reply to Alex Riley:

Depends what you mean by teaching. As an experienced climber in a club my multi-pitch beginners were only ever seconding, so more compact rock types made little difference.

Grades include protectability so the climbing on such compact routes should be easier than on a well protected equivalent.  I actually think HM is maybe a tad undergraded from where it should be at times and will feel harder still for those learning to lead (we can't grade for inexperience, but to a outdoor climbing beginner some lower grade climbs will always feel a lot easier than others of the same grade). North Wales overall still has loads of low grade major sandbags away from the starred routes.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Again no dislike from me but the concept of either the Colin Kirkus ‘get a length of washing line and have a go’ or pay hundreds for a guide because it’s too risky nowadays, when it’s never been safer , seems a bit stark. 
there’s mates and clubs that can also plug the risk gap between single pitch safe and multi pitch safe. 

For those coming at it from a walking, scrambling background with single pitch competency it may not be much of a step up. Generally if you choose the correct route for your team and conditions and find the correct start, then things will probably go well. Personally I learn best when I feel personal responsibility. There’s also the sum total of human climbing knowledge available on the internet now. 

I’ve had great experiences with guides for example , plas y brenin , Adrian Berry on grit and Kalymnos and the Jonathan conville course 30 years ago! 
I’ve also had different experiences. Two Chamonix guides spring to mind. One who tried to elbow my 14 year old off an exposed arête route in fit of angered pride as we overtook him and his client. Another I paid puffing on a Galloise and saying ‘ shall we go left or shall we go right …. I decide, me!’ Whilst thumping his chest.😂. The only thing learned that date was a hilarious catch phrase. 
Needless to say not money well spent . 

Good luck to all setting out. If your gut feeling says it’s not right then back off. It will probably still be there

In reply to rurp:

Sorry you had some bad experiences. But Adrian Berry will have given it his all. And it'll have been well worth having. 

Wouldn't touch Chamonix guides with a bargepole. Many years ago I threw one notable out of my garret in Sheffield. (He'd quickly outstayed his welcome.) By the look of him in a recent film, he's not changed much. Brilliant climber - but the epitome of Gallic arrogance. 

Probably the best single piece of advice any climber could give any other climber. 

Put bluntly:

Heed this and you'll probably live.

Ignore it often enough - and you almost certainly won't.

Mick 

In reply to Mick Ward:

You've done it now, Mick; we'll all be trying to guess who it is! Did he say things like "Sept bey - pah!" - and then break wind in your general direction?
 

In reply to UKC Articles:

Really liked the article, thanks. As someone keen to introduce others to multi-pitch climbing, it's very helpful to have some informed ideas.

Would be keen for a similar article for the Lakes!

In reply to Mick Ward:

So erm, what we all did in the good old days? (or as I call them, 2007)

In reply to alan moore:

"Adventure" is a little disingenuous when we are talking about a selection of crags 30 mins or less from a road. Or any UK crag in general really.

In reply to PaulJepson:

I agree.  There are some very good suggestions in the article but I do find it a bit odd to be recommending enchainments including HVS climbing for inexperienced climbers when much more balanced combinations are possible. HVS at Idwal shouldn't be underestimated.

I think that people new to trad might find the runouts on some classic mountain routes a bit of a shock and I would strongly recommend having a huge technical safety margin until you are very comfortable with the gear.

In reply to ianstevens:

For someone new to outdoor climbing going to that crag can be up with the most adventurous feeling things they have ever done. I've been climbing things all my life and still regard lower grade trad as small adventures: its exciting,  but without care and skill an accident is possible.

In reply to ianstevens:

Think you might be being disingenuous there.

And proximity to the road means nothing.  Had plenty of scary adventures at Avon!

In reply to UKC Articles:

Lovely article, sensible route choices.

Bonus nostalgia for me.  My first climb (as a 2nd) was one of those and my first lead was another one listed, (back in 1992)