UKC

Hello, 

I have posted something similar before but alas we are here again. 
 

I am currently making some big decisions on where to buy my first home. I have recently moved up to Preston but not settling here. 
 

I am considering both Manchester and Bristol to live and move careers. 
 

I realise from a purely climbing point of view, Manchester may be the no brainer. But I’m unsure if the North is my vibe and if Manchester is too industrial. I’m from Worcester
 

is it possible to have a good climbing life from Bristol? Stanage to Bristol is 180 miles each way which is ALOT. 
 

I prefer trad over sport genuinely and have heard Avon is glass city. 

If you're looking to spend a good few years of your life somewhere, dedicate a weekend to going down to Bristol, check our the city and the climbing.

One key question is which bit of Manchester?

I live in SW ( Altrincham) and it's a complete desert for quick climbing. Loads of places for a weekend, or a proper day but it is shit for evenings /short days. East Manchester is probably loads better.

Ideally I’d like to live in the South of Manchester. But first time single buyer seems that the property could be limited. I currently also have a role in Samlesbury, Preston way. So would either need to be a North Manchester or move roles. 
 

Do you have any advice on where to start ? Are you from Bristol?

appreciate the advice 

I live just up the road. I would agree evening can be a struggle due to traffic, and I don't bother, but for short days this surely ain't no dessert.... there's loads! Actually some pretty good venues before getting into all the esoterica.

Of the two I’d pick Bristol….

If climbing is a big part of your decision making there are better places to live….Sheffield for example. 
Good luck….

How rich are you? Bristol ain’t cheap. 

First time buyer in my late 20s so have a guess 😂

Aerospace is prevalent in Bristol. There is some in Manchester also to be fair but not as big 

Bristol is a really, really good city to live in but the immediately accessible climbing is quite poor (at least at the lower grades; I can't speak for 8a sport and I'm sure there is loads of great sport at harder grades in Cheddar). After 2 or 3 years I felt like I'd climbed the crags out of the stuff I wanted to do. It seems a bit of a theme amongst climbing friends I have there that they kind of lose their inspiration a bit after a few years; there are only so many times you can go to Wyndcliffe quarry in the winter to climb the same 6as or Fly Wall on a summers eve to climb the same VS. Being in the south west, the conditions are a lot more fickle and crags stay wet for a lot of the winter. 

It is however very well situated for a variety of weekend climbing trips. The South West, Pembroke, Gower, Eastern Grit, Dorset coast, etc. are all within 3 hours. North wales is only about 3.5 hours. The south wales sandstone is underrated and only an hour or so away. 

I live in Sheffield now so cannot speak for Manchester but being able to get to actually good climbing half an hour after I clock out for the day is priceless to me. There is an element of climbing grades out on the popular edges but I've not felt the same lack of enthusiasm for repeating things as I did in Bristol. There are also a lot more options to progress your grade and get better so you're getting on new stuff. 

Manchester seems really well situated for places like Lakes/North Wales but I can't speak from experience how plausible they are for after-work cragging or whether it's just weekend-worthy. I knew a couple of people who lived there and they weren't keen on the after-work options (either Wilton or driving all the way to the Eastern edges). I've climbed a few places in Lancashire and they do seem to be an acquired taste (a lot of shite?). 

As a city, Bristol beats Sheffield (and I'd wager Manchester) by a margin but I wouldn't move back because the climbing here is so much better. 

Affordability is also another thing, which may or may not be critical for you. Bristol is double-the price for housing as the north and the cost of living is much higher. 

Context: lived in Bristol for 12 years, have lived in Sheffield for 3 years. Climb predominantly trad but do participate in occasional sport. About HVS/6b. 

I've lived in Bristol for about 20 years. 

The house prices point is a good one, I think you'd get less for your money in most parts of Bristol.

I think Bristol might trump Manchester on what you can access within the city and up to 30 mins away, so the sort of thing that's viable on a weeknight. The Avon Gorge is better than most people give it credit for, and particularly in the E2-E5 range I'd say. Depending which side of Bristol you're on, you can get to Cheddar or the Wye Valley in about half hour, which both have some good sport.

For weekend trips I think it matters less - most climbers will be willing to drive 2 or 3 hours and there's loads within that range for both cities. It just depends which crags you'd want to be closer to. Bristol is well located for Pembrokeshire, the S Wales sport crags, Portland, Baggy Point, Cornish sea clouds, Swanage, Berry Head, Dartmoor (and probably others I'm forgetting). I know Manchester less well but obviously the Lakes, N Wales and Peak are within range.

Both are great cities to live in, in my opinion. Bristol is much smaller and feels like it ends abruptly, which I like - there's no suburban sprawl. I live about 3 miles from the city centre yet can be cycling in the countryside within about 10-15 minutes, but it still has all the city things like a vibrant art, music and food culture. It's the perfect sized city for me.

Definitely spend a bit of time in both before you make what is a big decision, and good luck. 

Bristol if you like better weather, quick hit after work cragging, and easy weekend access to sea cliffs.

Manchester if you want easier access to the Lakes and North Wales and gritstone at weekends and aren't so fussed about midweek/after work climbing.

I enjoyed the Avon Gorge when I lived closer to it. It's not a patch on Pembroke or the Gower, but it's a lot better than most Peak limestone.

I will add it depends on what grades you see yourself climbing. If you plan to climb mostly V Diffs and Severes then the area around Bristol is not a great choice, once you get up to about VS and HVS there's way more quality stuff to go at.

Also if you're counting Stanage for Manchester you really need to be counting the whole Wye Valley for Bristol. I would prioritise exploring the climbing there when assessing Bristol over Avon Gorge. Avon itself is a very divisive crag, but if you build a relationship with the place there's some incredible adventures to be had, but it's not for everyone.

I have lived in both. Bristol for only 2 years and Stockport for 20 years. Cost of living / houses is a real factor which led me up North 20 years ago. 

To me Pembroke would be the real pull of living in Bristol. Plus I am really into mountain biking these days and Bristol would arguably be closer to better biking. 

However, if you want mountains whether it is the lakes, North wales or even Scotland than Manchester would be better. Plus Manchester has the excellent new big depot and the depot bouldering wall which is a real factor when it rains so much 6 months of the year. 

My vote would be Manchester. 

If you work at Samlesbury and live in Preston have you actually considered moving a little further north? Lancaster or Morecambe might suit (the latter now has a fast connection to the M6). Easy commute down to work and you have good access to the Dales and Lakes crags.

Manchester is probably the best place to live for variety of quality climbing feasible in a full day, or comfortably within a weekend.

There are some quality routes in 'Lancashire', the 3 star routes are genuine...... it's just not the  concentration of quality you have around Hathersage. I don't bother with evening cragging because of the traffic and I'm paying for the wall anyway. There's a lot of venues in all directions I would consider for a half day when the roads are quieter.

Yeah I’m climb up to VS 4C but prefer Severe/HS territory. My biggest hesitation (apart from house prices) has always been climbing accessibility. But reading the comments. It may not be as limited as I once thought. I think Manchester will definitely always trump on “elite” areas such as Lakes, North Wales and Peaks. 
 

just don’t wanna be doing 400mile round trips for weekend of climbing either 😂 can’t have it all though 

I think it’s the life balance. My family are in Worcester. More non climbing events going on in places like Manchester and Bristol. Better airports etc and shows. 

There's multiple guidebooks of climbing within an evening hit of Bristol, including one of the most accessible city centre crags in the country, plus the entire south west of both England and Wales a steady (~3 hr drive max) weekend away. There's reasons why you might not like Bristol, but it would be crazy for "lack of climbing access" to be one of them!

If you're talking weekend trips then not really. If you're counting North Wales for Manchester you should really count Pembroke for Bristol.

Also while Cornwall is still far away from Bristol it's a lot closer to Bristol than a lot of other places!!

Maybe a more fair summary is

Midweek climbing - Bristol

Weekend day trips - Manchester 

Weekends away - score draw: Bristol for sea cliffs and Manchester for mountains.

That fair summary at the bottom makes a lot of sense and puts it into better perspective. Thank you. 
 

im assuming the mid week refers to Avon, the Wye and Cheddar ? 

Hmmmm. I think we're largely in agreement. Just seem to disagree on the "short day" bit....

If I have say four hours spare, or 5 at max, imho there's nowhere worth going to climb outside from Alti.  Castle Naze is a bit of a one trick pony. Windgather doesn't really warrant a repeat visit very often. Peak is just too far away, Ditto Lancashire, North Wales Slime etc 

What am I missing?

And the rest - there's the myriad of other smaller outcrops around Bristol, like Goblin, Portishead etc, the cluster of things down near Weston (Uphill, Brean etc), there's the other climbing in Bristol itself (Blaise/Trym, and the various sandstone bits and bobs), and anything else you can reach the other side of the bridge (Yat and it's conglomerate surrounds, potentially the nearest edge of the south Wales sandstone quarries, etc)

To me it's an easy choice. Bristol (where I lived for 10 years) is an ace city IMO and also really great for climbing IF you like Avon and if Avon suits you, also, there's a ton more climbing within an easy drive. Avon is minutes from anywhere in Bristol

(Can't speak for Manchester though)

Frodsham  Helsby or even  Pex Hill Quarry ?

Although Altrincham is on the wrong side of town for evening cragging. 

Well ok you aren't as well connected as me, further up the A56 in Stretford, but still it's not that far to the M60?

I would say Pex Hill, the Wiltons and Hobson moor all fit the bill and have quality climbing  (some of Lancs is an all day affair but Wiltons are a short walk in and not far from A666).  That's quite a lot of 3 star routes across the grades.

There's a load of other venues which are good for 1 or 2 visits.... maybe 2 1 star routes in grade range, fine for a short day. The UKC maps work well for scoping those out.

If you are willing to be a short train ride (up to 30mins) out of Manchester, eg New Mills/Whaley Bridge etc then you can have midweek evening trad in minutes from your house. Eg Castle Naze is particularly nice on a sunny weekday evening. It's no Stanage though so probably not enough for lots of visits.

I do like Bristol though and we went through a similar decision many years ago....and picked Manchester. But job opportunities swayed that as much as climbing opportunities. If climbing was the main driver we would have picked Sheffield, but jobs for us there were a bit thin.

Do not underestimate how wet the Manchester side can be ...

I worked in Manchester for many years and lived at quite a few locations on western side of Peak and north of Manchester. It is wet.  Have now lived on eastern side of PeakD for over 30 years. 

.... you could almost say the best place to live in Manchester is Sheffield, lol. (if you wanted a city)

That said, I've got a soft spot for Bristol and the SW. Could quite happily live down there.

I live in Ramsbottom near Bury and rate it. I had similar concerns re industrial Manchester and Ramsbottom is a rural market town. You can get the tram into Manchester as necessary and Preston isn't far to drive, maybe 25 mins. 

Its obviously a fair bit further to the Peak than from south Manchester but its an hour to the Dales and an hour to south Lakes. You also have Wilton 15 mins away and numerous random bits of Lancs rock which are decent enough for after work hits. Happy to answer any specific questions if you have any.

You won't want to live in Manchester per se, but the outer fringes should suit you fine. Only skim read but think Ramsbottom area, or New Mills way (or anywhere else really that sort of distance from town!). All well connected for the city if you need it for work but all smaller and without the industrial grime of the city itself. 

Grit cragging in the summer evenings is under an hour away from S and E Manchester.

Pex shoukd be under 30 minutes from Altrincham.

Nesscliffeshoujd be about an hour. Quality cragging there.

Only problem with Ramsbottom is the transport links into Manchester are not that great. Even with the tram in Bury.

Footnote - Bristol wins for enjoyability of local accent.

Castle Naze and Windgather are the Peak -both are in the PDNP.  How much longer does it take you get to the Staffordshire grit like Roaches and so on? I would imagine Harpur Hill and the Buxton crags aren't so much further on as well from the Western Grit you mention.

How about Cheshire sandstone and the stuff just across the Welsh border? I would imagine that's not too bad from SW Manchester? 

My Tuesday night crew are all mainly based in SE Manchester - Stockport, down to Macclesfield etc. we climb all over the Peak after work - normally starting after the Easter holidays. Obviously for me (just SW of Sheffield), the Eastern Edges are really easy, but if we meet over on the west side, they normally have the quicker drives. 

I lived in Thameside (a long time ago), which is still greater Manchester, and access to cragging from there was good. Central Manchester was harder even when I did have a car, I do remember getting a bus to Hobby Moor though! 

Yep, my proper Bristolian nephews and niece are known as the pirates up here in the top of the Midlands to their cousins! 😉

I've not lived in either city, but when I was looking for climbing clubs from Sheffield, they all seemed to be in south Manchester! 

I lived 15 years on the Fylde (ex-Wartonite) and 20 years in Bristol.

NW - decent evening cragging (Wilton etc, Ingleton limestone) for several years.  Excellent prospects for weekend trips (Lakes, Llanberis, Hathersage etc).  Lots of my friends now go to the Lakes for the day.

Bristol - excellent evening cragging for several years (Avon, Wintours, both at/above HVS).  Cheddar and FCQ didn't ring my bell.  Not bad for weekend trips (Swanage, Cornwall, Pembroke, Peak).  N Wales is a bit of a flog cross-country - 5hrs.  Lakes is 6 hrs.  Peak is 3hrs.  Biggest downfall is day trips - lots of interesting places are a good 2 hr drive each way (Swanage, Baggy, Ogmore, Gower) which makes for a very tiring day for the poor driver.

Me and several friends really enjoyed Brizzle for 5/10 years and then either lost interest or yearned for a change.  I can see the same could happen if you pick one side of Manchester for the next 30 years.

The answer to your question is Horwich near Bolton. Anglezarke, Brownstones and the Wiltons are near, Egerton not much further. Rockover Bolton is close and Boulder UK up the motorway.  Samlesbury not too far.

Easy enough to manage a trip to Big Depot Manchester.  Lakes, Dales and even the Peak much nearer than from Bristol. 

It depends what you need. There is a bus direct to the city centre and the tram is 5 mins away. That more than suffices for me, but maybe if you needed to commute every day it might be a drag. 

Thinking nights out, cultural activity in the city, rather than a commute.

I like Ramsbottom and have a few friends that live there, but there is a reason why there has been a big (but doomed) campaign for a proper rail connection.

Yeah fair enough, I'm boring and don't go out much so non issue for me!

I find Manchester over-expensive and not that nice to be honest.  There are places just outside like Marple which are affordable and nice (and near climbing!) but if you didn't take to Preston (which has similar places that are a lot cheaper) then you may not take to there.  I was a student in Manchester and loved that, but part of the whole thing was living in a place that was almost "interestingly rough" and very ethnically diverse having grown up in a comfortable middle class white type place - all a bit Common People I guess.  And in many ways during your student years it's about people more than place.

I think if I wanted actual urban living and nothing else mattered e.g. family proximity I'd choose Bristol out of the two, to be honest.  Though I've not lived there I have been there a lot and know people who do.  It just to me has a nicer vibe than Manchester by quite some margin, and while it's still expensive too it seems to me to be just better value.  Sure Didsbury is nice at London prices but I find Chorlton for instance just an overpriced dump, while the more affordable parts seem to be just swathes of poorly-maintained red-brick terraced grim.  Even Liverpool tries to cheer those places up a bit with some masonry paint (as does Bristol)!

This opinion is of course worth exactly what you paid for it, and of course in reality unless emigrating there are normally other factors e.g. proximity to family and job possibilities.  And climbing.  I note others have mentioned Sheffield, which I find has a much nicer feel to it than Manchester and is equally close to the Peak (and loads cheaper than Manchester) - have you considered that?

The wettest part must be where you lived, the edge of the Pennines, north and west.

Manchester itself is ~15% rainier than Sheffield, which I doubt most people would actually notice and fits with my recollection of living in both (ie this isn't a maritime climate vs continental, they are pretty similar).

Unfortunately for us the hills are the rainiest places in the UK!

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/d29ad7056f3548eb8affeb1c0ad50106

I’m not really a fan of South Manchester, but Didsbury isn’t London prices and Chorlton isn’t a dump.

I am guessing it is at least 15 years since you lived in Manchester, possibly more. It has utterly changed as a city in that time.

I don’t generally find Manchester rainy. Statistically, it actually gets less rainfall than Bristol.

I live ten miles from the city centre, in the shadow of the Pennines and get a lot more rain.

I did say Manchester side - west of Pennine spine. Lived in Mobberley, Greenfield (Chew Valley) and further north under Pendle Hill (Fence) - all when working in (and driving to) Manchester; and also then drove to Manchester for ~ 3 years over the tops when I first started living in Hope Valley (still here!).  Got to experience every weather type driving over the tops, usually on the same day, lol.  Fun times though.

Fence felt like the wettest place on earth, I blame the witches.

I lived in Bristol for years. I started out loving it and then grew to hate it. The traffic is awful, people are quite transient, and the local climbing is not that great. As someone has already said you may be bored by the crags after a couple of years. Many climbers in Bristol seem to eventually move on to Sheffield or North Wales. It is an excellent gateway to the rest of the South West though (and Pembroke!), and has lots of good climbing walls. Outside of climbing it is excellent for bars/restaurants, culture etc. If you want the Peak though, pick Manchester.

Didsbury is about as expensive as the North gets, certainly.  It's nice but it's not worth what it costs.

Chorlton I knew very well in the 90s-2000s as I was Scout Leader at the 392nd while I was a student.  I have been back a couple of times and I don't particularly like it now either.  It's not absolutely horrible, but it is in no possible way worth the premium prices it now commands.  I guess the tram has mostly caused that because away from that most of Manchester's public transport is a bit crap.  (Mind you so is Bristol's, being almost entirely bus based).

The city centre has changed probably for the better (aside from Piccadilly Gardens which must be one of the biggest issues of failed policing in the country), but the suburbs are still swathes of grim, worse in some ways.  And much less affordable than it was.

If I was going to move to the Manchester area I'd definitely be looking for one of the nicer (and oddly quite affordable) small towns to the north and east, not the main built-up area.  Marple, Glossop and the likes.  The main built up area is in my eyes mostly either grim or expensive.

This is the thing though. Sheffield is much closer to the best bits of the peak than Manchester is

I did read somewhere that Manchester is now the most expensive city to live in when you compare cost of living to wages, though it could have just been an MEN clickbait article.

Didsbury is not much more than Chorlton for house prices at the mo. I moved to Manchester and ended up the dump that is Chorlton in order to escape the hellscape that is Milton Keynes so I imagine what we want out of somewhere to live is somewhat different!

To the OP, if you work in Samlesbury, are required to be there in person and intend to stay there for a while then don't live in south Manchester, the traffic on the daily commute will grind you down.

Just because I live in MK doesn't mean I think it's the best place for me to live.  It's mostly inertia that's kept me here to be honest.  It certainly doesn't offer me everything I want in a place to live - in particular the utterly crap public transport and car dependency really doesn't appeal, and I seem to spend half my life on the M1/M6 and WCML to get anywhere near hills.  It does have good sides, though, such as being very green with parkland everywhere - something Manchester very much lacks - it's not a green city at all.  There are parks but far less parkland than say London.

I've always described it as the logical place to bring up 2.4 kids and cheap for the South East/London commutable places, but I'd not give it much more than that.

That said I'd still rather live in West Bletchley than Chorlton. I really don't like Chorlton.  If someone else was paying (houses cost considerably more there than here) I'd be happy with Didsbury though!

FWIW I find it quite odd how some people seem to think that someone who lives in an area that is perhaps a bit crap in some way can't comment on whether somewhere else is also crap.  We all have our reasons for living where we do, but they aren't necessarily that where we live is an idyll, it's often for reasons of inertia or convenience (or budget) rather than how nice it is.

It was more a comment on the fact that different people like different things.

We stayed in Chorlton (moved less than a mile down the road to a bigger house) party due to inertia, but also because we couldn't find anywhere we would prefer to live. Glossop and Marple, for example, among many other reason, would preclude cycling to work for both my wife and I. That wouldn't work for us.

The idea that Manchester isn’t green is a myth, it has as high a percentage of public green space (parks and the like) as London, with a much lower population density. Of course Heaton Park is the largest municipal park in Europe, much bigger than Hyde Park, Regents Park etc.

Less so in the city centre, but that is changing with Mayfield being the first of several new city centre parks and there has always been lots of green space on the edge of the city centre.

I live to the north and east of Manchester. Glossop and Marple are of course south and east.

And to reinforce my point, having lived in Didsbury we managed to escape to Chorlton and wouldn't move back! Horses for courses......

100% agree. As a Chorlton resident who has walked through Chorlton Park to get to the kids school every day for the past 8 yrs, and has Longford Park, Alexandra Park, Hough End Fields, Longford park, Chorlton Eees, Turn Moss etc all within 10 minutes (max) on our bikes as a family, we do ok!

Within the inner ring road is poor, outside of that it is surprisingly leafy.

FYI they are no longer and were amalgamated with the 123rd and are now the Chorlton and Northenden Scout Group (and kept the 123rd, the 435th were amalgamated into them too I think).

My daughters in the Whalley Range Scouts which, confusingly, is also in Chorlton.

Although I cast my vote Manchester, at the end of the day you won't go far wrong with either choice for climbing and outdoors 

There's loads of pleasant suburbs all around Manchester. I don't think you understand the factors which affect house prices. We all have our hang-ups me included, but it's good to have some self awareness of when it is a personal taste/experience thing, as describing peoples neighbourhoods as 'dumps' and 'grim' is just rude.

The factors which affect house prices are supply and demand.  That's it.  Though there's a practical cap based on what lenders will offer too.

The supply is the number of properties (of a given type).

The demand is based on what reasons people have to wish to live in a particular place.  It being nice is only one of those factors; often people choose to live in places that aren't nice but are convenient for other reasons.  I'd probably say a lot of north west London comes under that - most of it isn't exactly lovely but it's at the cheaper end of London property (still silly, though) and journeys into London are quick.  South of London is leafier and nicer by and large, but doesn't have the Tube so is less convenient.

Everything I post of that sort of nature on forums like this is my opinion, there's no such thing as fact about whether someone likes an area or not because tastes as you say do vary. It seems spurious to type "my opinion is that most of the Manchester suburbs are a bit grim" (and that remains my opinion) because of course it's my opinion, what constitutes "grim" is very much a matter of opinion.

To be fair on Chorlton, you could maybe compare it to (much larger) Croydon in that it does have pleasant enough leafy bits.  However the "centre" is a bit nasty in my view (some people mentioned the ring road, I guess they meant that?), whereas the bit of Didsbury along Wilmslow Road, while busy with cars, is quite nice.  Croydon town centre *is* grim and I doubt very many would disagree, but to be fair many people who live there in the leafy bits don't care because they just drive to Waitrose for food or have it delivered, while if they're going into town the town they go into isn't Croydon, it's central London.  And for measure, Bletchley town centre is also pretty grim!

Skoda Octavia 

and ...

Sheffield

I was considering an Octavia but instead went for a Kia Ceed estate.  It's basically the same thing, with quite a nice interior, but was a lot cheaper and has a 7 year warranty.

Rebel I guess!

BANNED

I don't think it is at all!

You have quite strong opinions on localities and wrt Manchester you are quite obsessive about expressing those negative opinions strongly (I've got more than a feeling of dejavu). You do this with an obvious lack of up to date local knowledge. 

Exactly, but you seem to post a lot that contradicts your understanding of that. There's no way you can really know the localities you post about well enough to understand the demand, perhaps just accept that?

I suspect we have very different views on what constitutes a nice place, then, and can wholly understand why we differ.  Bletchley town centre is dying - effectively all the business has moved away to the stadium site which is now effectively the town centre.  It is fairly leafy, but in terms of the business offering and the kind of people you get there it's heading towards just being similar to one of those London local centres - chicken shops, charity shops and bad driving, basically.  

Not what a town centre should be - an attractive place to shop for provisions and an attractive place to spend time in hospitality businesses.  I think round here Newport Pagnell has just about managed to survive in that vein, Stony manages the hospitality but not so much the retail, but Bletchley is just failing and gets worse all the time as shops close.

Nope, I've been there plenty of late.  Some places have even got a fair way worse than they were when I was there at uni - most notably Withington.

As I said in my view the city centre has got markedly better aside from Piccadilly Gardens which really needs the Police to get a proper handle on it, and I remain amazed they don't - there must be loads of openly committed drug offences there daily as well as breaches of vagrancy laws.  But that aside the expansion of the centre is going well, e.g. towards Ardwick and the regeneration of inner Salford. But we're never going to agree about most of the inner and mid suburbs, certainly.  There *are* nice bits, but they're getting very expensive now compared to similar areas of Liverpool and the likes.

I don't agree.  As I said I am no fan of Chorlton, but it's clear that the coming of the tram is what has significantly boosted prices.  Previously it was a bus-only area and that isn't attractive to the likes of young professionals who might choose not to have a car at all in an urban area.

(That doesn't mean to say the OP shouldn't check it out and buy there if it suits them - as I said everything I post on a forum unless I cite evidence is opinion, and that's true of what you post too).

It's one of the factors, as well as the buzzing social hub now being fully gentrified (which is well away from where you consider the centre), and Media city, schools ect...... all adds up.

I think we'll agree to disagree, I've lived in Greater Manchester all my life and there are 'huge swathes' I wouldn't comment on because I don't know them well enough.

You emphasis on a 'traditional' town centre does explain how you come to these judgement, but I doubt most people would be looking for that, times do change and retail certainly has. I still like London, despite all the dodgy sweet shops.

Where abouts is that out of interest?

I certainly find the sweet shop, chicken shop and money-laundering barber shops to be the sign of a place I absolutely would *not* want to live - it is the sign of a failed town centre.  I don't think the traditional butcher, baker and candlestick maker necessarily works any more, but town centres can become places for specialist shops and hospitality plus more residential than is usual for the UK - basically more European style.  I love the way you see young kids playing out in European city centres - because they *live* there.

I seem to recall Peppercorn Lodge was still in use last time I looked there - is it now or has the merged group moved?

Thanks for that by the way!

Interesting thing about the hut - it was called BP Peppercorn Lodge, which most people thought referred to Baden-Powell, but it was in fact because British Petroleum gave them the site at a peppercorn (i.e. zero) rent.

I was unaware that it was called BP Peppercorn Lodge but it is still in use and kept in pretty good nick by the looks of it, I regularly cycle past it.

Love a story like this!

Beech Road. It's changed over the years and is a lot smarter now, and the pubs have gone upmarket. At the end there's Chorlton Green and I don't think they have the parties there they did when I was younger.

Sure. That starts with younger people moving into an area and making the best of what is available.

Freaky-I've done Salisbury to Llanberis in four and and half hours and that includes fuel stops. Before the M6 existed. In a 1956 Ford.

Cheers.  That certainly looks quite nice - somewhat Didsbury-ish!  Perhaps my perception that it had gone downhill was because any decent small retail and hospitality has shifted away from Wilbraham Road around the station and Morrisons (which classically was the centre) further south?

The “best retail” on Wilbraham Rd is now the other side of Barlow Moor Rd. There’s a fishmonger, cheesemonger, bookshops, jeweller, some lovely bars and restaurants etc. It’s a bit of a mess where the precinct used to be, we shall see what it turns into when the plans are finally approved.

Sorta... both areas lost retail to online as everywhere has, and like you say the station side is scruffier for it (but there is a screwfix next to Morrisons which is useful). Beech Road got a higher concentration of hospitality and boutique retail which has created an attraction with a village feel. As galipos says there is still a good collection of independent retail the other side and also further up Manchester Road.

I live next door in Stretford which is undergoing it's own 'regeneration' which will be interesting as that is replacing 60s shopping centre with the type of accommodation retail mix you mentioned above. Anyway back to OP.

OP

Both Bristol and Manchester are great places to live for climbers, I think most outdoor enthusiast can adjust what they do a little to take advantage of what's closest. I really missed Sheffield when I fist moved back this side, particularly the very convenient access to the Peak.... but I did soon adjust. Generally, Manc and Bristol are quite different in character which you obviously know about and I'd say that's the thing to think about. I know loads of people who have happily settled in Manchester, but a few who never go on with it because they'd be happier somewhere like Bristol.

This is my problem. Job opportunities (for my industry) seem slightly better in Bristol. I work in Defence and Bristol is the defence hub. Also family are in Worcester so closer than Manchester.

but my biggest worry. And that’s why I started this forum. Was choosing Bristol and being miserable for weekend climbing. 200 miles to places like Stanage just seemed unrealistic. 
 

I understand there are crags in the southwest. But outside of Pembroke. There is nothing which I would class as elite trad which can be revisited on multiple occasions. To my knowledge. I would LOVE to be persuaded / taught otherwise but my gut feel is there isn’t. The Peaks offer a huge range of crags within close proximity. I like the Lakes but mountain days are never as convenient. So I would probably visit the Lakes for climbing only slightly more than if I was in Bristol. I think of them as “special episodes” in a Tv show rather than the backbone. That’s just the type of climbing I like, fun but convenient for the everyday stuff. Then the odd big day here and there. Same for North Wales although the walk ins feel like they have a bit more flex than the Lakes. I could be wrong though. 
 

I think that’s where I’m at. For me, Bristol aligns better for Work and family. But I don’t know how I feel doing 400 mile round trips to go climbing in the Peaks. Pembroke is slightly less than the Peaks but not exactly on your doorstep. 
 

Dartmoor has some great stuff, but I’ve never been there and been desperate to return immediately. 
 

South West like baggy point etc just feels far out also. 
 

I must stress, this is based on my own knowledge. I’ve been on the scene for 4 years and I am 100% sure there are people on UKC with fountains of knowledge which could potentially change my opinion drastically so I apologise for any ignorance on my part. 

What statistic?
 

Bristol mean monthly rainfall = ~20mm

Manchester mean monthly rainfall = ~75mm

Number of rainy days are similarly much greater in Manchester.

https://weatherandclimate.com/compare-city-of-bristol-and-manchester

What is the information that we could provide about Bristol that would help? You've had dozens of responses and clearly none of them have convinced you of the wealth of climbing on offer, but without really understanding why that is I'm not sure what more information would be useful.

I don't know what your definition of "elite trad" really means under the hood, because there are crags in Bristol and the wider south west with hundreds of routes on that should trivially satisfy your definition of being able to be "revisited on multiple occasions" - but people have pointed these out already. Maybe expanding on what exactly it is you're looking for in a crag would help?

At the moment you're describing Bristol like it's in deepest Norfolk, so it's a view so wholly alien to me that I don't really know where to start!

A quick sense checks says that sounds ridiculously dry for somewhere in the west of the UK.

The closest Met Office weather station to Bristol (5 miles away) averages  819mm rain annually so nearly 70mm per month.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/location-specif...

Buy Rockfax SW and S. Wales.

One or two climbs in the region of Bristol 

This may not help, but my experience of times from South Stockport (ie 10-15 minutes off the A6, M56 and M60) are:

45 minutes: Tameside grit, Pex Hill and Cheshire sandstone

60 minutes: Western Grit, Raven Tor and Chee Dale

75 minutes: Eastern Grit

sub 2 hours - N Wales limestone

2 hours - Snowdonia mountain crags

2.5 hours Gogarth and most of the Lake District

3 hours Scafell

Matches my experiences with climbing from Manchester.  Not necessarily the best for very quick access for evenings/short days but much of the climbing in the peak/northern England plus north Wales is accessible for day trips and the rest is an easy weekend distance.  

If gritstone is your priority then it's hard to beat Sheffield but the flip side is it's much further to Yorkshire, Lakes and North Wales.

I think you are overestimating how good Peak grit is, and underestimating how much quality and quantity there is elsewhere.

It is unrealistic, and mad - drive half the distance to Pembroke instead! It is vastly superior. 

There's something wrong with your link, nowhere in the UK gets so little rain as you have there for Bristol.

https://www.bristolweather.org/30year_ave_pptn.htm

That's not going to happen. All the info you need is at your fingertips, it's up to you how important being close to your favourite climbing is to you.

What I would say with the benefit of age is these preferences do change over time and psyched climbers seem adaptable to what is most accessible, and there's certainly enough within a day trip of Bristol.

The 30 year annual average for Bristol is 915mm and it has been higher in recent years. For Manchester it is 830mm.

Pex fair enough. But I still maintain that Helsby and Frodsham aren't worth a return visit.

Hmm, yep. I guess that's the thing. 1 or 2 visits.

In reply to TobyA:

Yep, agreed. But not that much there

Roaches about an hour and a quarter. Not huge by any means, but too far for me for a short day. Basic rule of thumb is that I have no interest travelling for longer than I climb. ( To save anyone scrolling back through the thread, short day is 4 or 5 hours)

There was some quite reasonable sandstone sport that I did years back 

Is that THE Tuesday Nighters?  I did indeed climb with them a few times a decade or two ago but it just wasn't worth it in terms of metres climbed.  At the time I was seriously time poor ( new dad) and needed to optimise.  Bridging this comment with your earlier one, I did indeed climb Staffordshire Grit with them. Some random gent asked me what grade I climbed and then pointed me in the direction of some heinous VS/HVS crack, which luckily suited my climbing style. As I was thrutching away Seth shouted up that I'd been poisoned, which confused hell out of me. It was only when I asked my temporary partner's name that I discovered what he actually said: " you've been Boysenned"

Agreed. Thameside is however a small but significant distance from Altrincham. There are loads of places in Manchester good for evening/ short day trips. ( But Alti ain't one)

Surely the trick is to work as close to home as possible*, in order to enable a swift getaway for a post work climb? This applies to Bristol I would imagine just the same as Manchester.

*Or to work somewhere near a crag and just go straight there.

Basically being a wage slave is cack for climbing 

I assume that we are talking about Tameside here, Thameside sounds like a leafy London suburb.

I lost my heart to Bristol long ago.  Manchester is a fine place to be based but somehow it never quite did it for me.  Bristol is special.

Keep calling the Peak "the Peaks" and you're going to be condemned to a rock-less hellhole like Essex.

Sorry Essex climbers but I'm sure you know what I mean. 

If you are a Worcester boy, have you climbed at all the prime Worcestershire spots? I'd stick with the limestone and avoid the sandstone personally.

I'd have more of a think if I were you.  Some of what you're saying sounds like it's just going to stir up more problems which you haven't anticipated.

For example, getting to work.  The main problem with living in south Manchester and working in Samlesbury is commuting round the M60 or the M6 and there are frequent issues where they cross the Mersey.  Bristol is no better as the area you'd potentially work in is between the M4/M5 junction, which is routinely hideous, and the M4/M32 junction which is only better by comparison.  Do you really want all that traffic hassle?

Bristol may be a nice city in parts but underneath that it's not so very different from any other city.  The city centre has been an ongoing road planning disaster for decades.

Climate-wise there is a difference.  The figures others are quoting don't tell you what the difference is, and that difference is this.  In the north west of England you can have days on end where the grey clouds look close enough to touch and it looks like it's going to rain any minute.  In Bristol you get a lot less of that and more fair weather; when it stops raining, the sun comes out.  I'd be interested to see what the Olthwaites of the parish have to say when they turn their attention away from the rain gauge and on to sunshine levels.

But the truth is that if the place you want to climb most is Stanage, then you want to live in Sheffield; and if that's not an option, start looking for the positives in other places.  You can get to lots of places both sides of the Pennines easily enough from north of Manchester.  You can get to lots of places west or south of Bristol easily enough too.  Think of what you're getting, not how difficult it may be to get to what you want.

T.

I'd make an early call for the 'UKC Most obscure slight of 2025'!

I'd then advise looking at maps to get a real idea of location related weather in the UK and the actual scale of the differences eg

https://solaradvice.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Sunshine-Hours-Map-UK-...

These threads always seem to provoke comments that would be more appropriate when comparing Glasgow to Seville, not locations in the UK with ~10% differences in rainfall or sunshine.

I do agree that a long commute can eat up loads of time. That may not be time that directly eats into climbing or other pastimes but can make a big difference indirectly.