UKC

Hi

Heading for Skye at the end of the month and staying at Glenbrittle.

We are looking to do 2 days of climbing. I like the sound of Cioch West- a long severe.

What are people's thoughts on the best multi-pitch within reasonable walking distance from the Glenbrittle campsite please? Only up to Severe 👍

You should think of the enchainment

Cioch West (S 4a) +

Arrow Route (VD) or Cioch Slab Corner (D) or Cioch Nose (VD) +

Wallwork's Route (VD) or Archer Thomson's Route (VD)

Did Cioch Direct (HS 4a) + Arrow Route (VD) + Integrity (VS 4b) last time. Spoiler alert Arrow Route P2 has zero (or one) runner.

There are a few bits of gear if you wander about a bit but nothing in the last 8m or so, where it is steepest (shat myself on it last week). 

Cioch West is really good. Cioch Direct is a lot less good and quite dangerous; I wouldn't recommend it to all but the experienced, as it seemed due another big accident. 

Cioch Nose after Cioch West is another alternative to Arrow Route, and has a sensible amount of gear (from memory). It's also closer to where Cioch West finishes (I think you'd have to drop back down to the terrace and go quite far left off the end of CW to do Arrow Route?)

Edit: if you have a decent guide then the following may not be of much use but getting off the crag is a serious proposition in itself; allow at least an hour and take head torches just in case. If you do Arrow Route, a ~50m abseil will get you back to the terrace (tat at the base of the Cioch). If you go up the Cioch, you'll need to first ab off the fixed anchor on the top of that to either the aforementioned shoulder (where another ab will have you back on the terrace), or a bit of an ab & swing/side climb to the rh (looking in) end of the terrace. Don't try ab from the Cioch to the terrace down the Arrow Route slab in one; you can reach it with 60s but the ropes won't pull. 

Once on the terrace, scramble off the bottom lh (looking in) end of it (wet) but then follow a dyke of non-gabbro rock (Basalt maybe? Geologist might know) on the other side of the gully to traverse out the gully and avoid the nightmare awaiting below. The first time I didn't read the descent description properly and went straight down the gully. I think this involved a couple of abseils down tricky steps and then a 20m abseil down an overhanging waterfall next to the buttress. I would not recommend this option. 

To get out of the gully you have to up, c5m if my memory is good.

We did Central Buttress (D) just over a week ago on a minging day. Rescued the weekend and very enjoyable for the grade(you can see my notes)

If it was in the lakes or North Wales it'd be polished to death. Severe next to it is meant to be good(white slab direct)

Window Buttress is worthwhile for half a day.

Median (VD) - big, rambling, fun route.

Commando Crack (HS 4b) - fairly short but varied and interesting.

Edit - I see Commando Crack has been upgraded to HS. Probably fair.

I had a great time on Cioch West but, impressively, we ran out of time to do any continuation. Another party had just started when we arrived, so that lost us a bit of time. We then had a little trouble route finding at one point (“follow crampon scratches” wasn’t very helpful). Stopped for a while to take photos on the Cioch of course. We were unsure of how much time we needed for the descent, and were aware of the time of last food orders at the pub in Carbost, so just did the one route. We did some epic faffing on the descent. I’m sure more competent parties won’t have this problem.

Sounds like an adventurous day! 

Thank you. This will probably be our objective should the weather cooperate 🤞😊

Also if you end up topping out it's straightforward (if climbing with packs) to descend Sron na Ciche to the Coire Ghrunnda Path.

I hope you cleaned it up afterwards! 

On the only occasion that we attempted Arrow Route, we went off route. My friend was leading the traverse, and asked how far. I shouted back 15metres...

Yet he kept on going, and belayed on less than ideal anchors...Then I realised that he had gone as far as the rope would go (we were on a 60m rope). He had traversed about 50 metres (he had misheard). I managed to get the idea to him that he should traverse back towards me. He refused, saying that it was not the easiest traverse (with not so much gear). So I had to follow him. When I reached him, we discussed if I could head back onto the real route. It was decided not to bother.

I just headed vertically upward. This proved to be about VS standard. I tried to place gear, but nothing was appropriate. So I ended up on the 2nd terrace/ledge, and managed to find anchors there. What relief! 

If it has no name, perhaps this (off-) route could be called something like flaming arrow (we were cursing our joint route finding).

I’ve chickened out of Arrow Route when I was leading the odd E2. I’ve only ever seconded it.

Cioch West, start sharp and get on it first then you'll have time to get on the cioch.

Thank you 👍 Would be nice not to feel rushed for this one 🙂

This pretty well answers your question. The Cioch Direct/Arrow Route/Integrity link up is one of the best I know in the UK, but may be a bit fruity for your diff to severe instruction. I believe there was a serious accident involving rock fall a few years back on Cioch Direct, but I don’t know if there is still a hazard warning in force. Arrow Route is infamous for lack of gear, and IIRC the wandering indirect nature of the line could be scary for a nervous second. On the other hand, Integrity, while technically harder, is probably a safer option with good gear all the way including (I think) the crux moves near the start. Whatever you do, it’ll be agreat day out.

This pretty well answers your question. The Cioch Direct/Arrow Route/Integrity link up is one of the best I know in the UK, but may be a bit fruity for your diff to severe instruction. I believe there was a serious accident involving rock fall a few years back on Cioch Direct, but I don’t know if there is still a hazard warning in force. Arrow Route is infamous for lack of gear, and IIRC the wandering indirect nature of the line could be scary for a nervous second. On the other hand, Integrity, while technically harder, is probably a safer option with good gear all the way including (I think) the crux moves near the start. (Not an alternative to Arrow Route, of course) Whatever you do, it’ll be agreat day out.

Cioch Direct is an accident waiting to happen to be honest. I did Cioch West a number of years ago but don't remember any problems (other than tricky route-finding, which is par for the course on Gabbro).

Did CD a couple of weekends ago and there are some BIG blocks ready to go. They can be avoided by an experienced hand but an enthusiastic beginner yarding on things could set things off. There are also some smaller bits (smaller being microwaves rather than the larger bits, which are more car-sized) just lying prone on ledges. All it would take is an errant hand or a caught rope and they would be ricocheting down the line. The route also acts like a funnel; from any part of the route if you look down, it's pretty much a perfect chute to direct any and all material at your belayer or parties below. 

There was the odd loose bit in the crux chimney but mostly avoidable and not too bad. The real bad area is the following pitch, where I think the 'yardarm' collapsed 20 or so years ago. There are lots of loose blocks on ledges and lots of massive loose blocks that seem to just be resting on each other on the slabs you climb up. You can mostly avoid touching any of it if you have grades in hand and can do some techy stemming between the solid bits but if you were a severe leader and were climbing it like the ungraded pitch it is in the guide book (yarding on cracks around the loose blocks), then you're playing roulette in my opinion. I really hope that those blocks go in bad weather when the crag is empty, rather than with people on the wall. 

I was glad to tick CD as a Classic Rock tick but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone and it should come with a severe health warning. The crux pitch was fun in a grovelly kind of way but CW is a much, much better route. 

Will a single 60m be okay for these routes? 

Halves are a better choice, mainly because if you need to get off at any point you'll want the ability to abseil more than 30m. I expect those routes would be fine climbing on a single rope but getting down is more of the consideration. They will have all been done originally on one. 

Thanks Paul. We'll need to study our route off as we only have singles- a 60 and a 70. Thick ropes too, so weight will be the issue 

If you get up early enough and move well, you can top out (do something like Yanks (S) to top out). The day seems to go quicker on that crag though, so having an 'off' option of 50m abseils is golden. 

Ab down slab corner, then just use the terrace and traverse left (facing the crag), then it's low grade scrambling terrain off. All this talk of double ropes, big abs.. etc makes it sound like you need to be abbing hundreds of metres and can't climb anything unless you're prepared to retreat with big multi pitch abseils. 

You can get to the cioch via a scramble and just 40m of Diff(slab corner), the start of which is straight forward and not even diff, the confident ab off the cioch down slab corner until they run out of rope and just down climb the last bit to the terrace (it's not as hard as Diff).

Slab corner is 45m, so you're not abbing it with a 60m single unless you plan on leaving it there....

Edit: I also tried the ab off the Cioch to the terrace down Slab Corner and the ropes wouldn't pull (also >50m to the terrace). Partner had to split the final ab at the neck of the Cioch/top of slab corner. The Skye guide who went before us also split this abseil  (they were with another experienced climber, not clients), so there must be something to it. 

As I said many scramble from the point their ropes run out. Or as you say you do two pitches. For me, even if I planned to ab twice down it, it wouldn't justify climbing with 2 ropes all day, to reduce that to 1 abseil. But it's horses for courses. 

There isn't an intermediate abseil point. The abseil from the top of Cioch Corner to the terrace is 45m. I wouldn't have felt comfortable down-soloing 15m so wouldn't presume someone else would. Especially someone who has asked for routes up to Severe.

Is this your first visit to Skye ?  Have you done big mountain climbs with alpine proportions like on Skye ? It’s a huge corrie but there is plenty of daylight. If you have a lot of mileage especially in descent it’s okey dokey. 

If it’s a first trip I would go in on day one and have a look round. On all of the climbs bailing if you go wrong is a right old malarkey. Super comfortable rock shoes. The best thing two days can do is give you an idea what it all looks like and get used to gabbro and come back with more time. The best thing I ever have taken to Skye is big cams for the parallel placements. 
 

Thanks Barry. This will be my first Skye trip. Yep, plan is to arrive at Glenbrittle Saturday midday, walk in, have a look around, scope the routes and retreats. Head back to camp and up very early Sunday for the climbs.

We won't have the biggest cams- we mostly rely on nuts and hexes.

Keen to get up there and get on it. Just as keen not to make any big errors 👍

I'd chuck in White Slab Direct (S) as a good outing from Glen Brittle. The slab itself is a bit out there, with only a small wire at mid traverse but overall a good route. 

first time on Skye 

The scale of the climbs and linked climbs that you can do on Skye is bigger than anything in the uk. Being able to move together roped on easier sections is a big advantage but Skye is not the place to learn it for the first time.
The best climbing I have done on Skye has been in boots that climb well like mescalitos or similar and wearing a bag. I would drop the grade to diff and do big mountaineering days rather than dogged multi pitch rock climbing. Any big mountaineering days mean that the party still has to deal with jumbled piles of loose rock.
Bear in mind that big routes often mean that you descend a different way to the climb and not by multiple abseils. Gabbro jams abseil ropes because of the friction. A rope laying on a bulge can bind just by lying on it. Seconds get out of sight and out of earshot so they need to know what to do when the rope goes tight and gets tighter and they hear or see nothing. 
Be very wary of parties that climb above because of the loose rock.

its an amazing place that takes learning. 

Thanks Barry, lot's to consider. A very early start will be key for us.

We'll have a plan B for the day - something a bit less technically involving, possibly Central Buttress (D) or The Dubh Ridge (M) 

I've arrived at routes and backed off before- no shame having a go look see and turning back.

If I'm feeling good enough on the day then these routes and the technical aspects of them are definitely doable.

As is often the case, the weather may decide for us.

I was more keen to go for Sou'wester Slabs (VD) instead. But my brother is more up or Skye.

We always pitch the ascent in reverse, to get off the cioch. Nothing too worrying for a Severe leader and the strongest climber seconds of course.

Dubh ridge is a long way from glen brittle as a plan b.

Thanks Mike. Dubh Ridge is probably a plan D tbh.

We'll be on Skye for 3 days. The main objective is quality low grade multipitch climbing on at least one of those days. Should be a great time whatever we get up to. 

I'm trying not to worry about the 14 day forecast which predicts that it may turn wet that weekend.

Typical

Clach Ghlas Blabheinn traverse is great.

That's even further from glenbrittle.

A couple of years ago we did the dubhs from the glenbrittle campsite. It was a long day but perfectly doable.

I forgot to write that you can drive to the start (and a good one to do on the way home)

From Glenbrittle one of my favourites is jsut the Round of the peaks of Coire Lagan, starting up the area of the Sgumain stone chute, or working up L of it then on to the peak and across to Alasdair and Sgurr Thearlaich, descending to the bealach for Collie's Ledge via what I now believe is called the Eastern Traverse though I've been using it since the 90s as an unnamed way.

Then Sgurr Mhic Choinnich and then stay on the crest to do the amazing epic scramble of An Stac which gets you exactly to the start of the Inn Pinn, a suitable closing highlight.

Did this on Monday, solo and what a wonderful day out it is, you really feel as if you've been mountaineering.  I wonder what Alpine grade the round would be worth? PD+/AD- perhaps?

I think there are easier ADs in the Alps.  Next favourite is Pinnacle Ridge of S nan G, starting early which was just the job for Tuesday starting through a cloud inversion.

Wow! That does sound like an amazing day out 👍🙂 And you had great weather too. Fantastic!

Agreed. Your Coire Lagan circuit as described, via An Stac direct, is a 5-star outing. I'd say AD-.

CW, Arrow Route and Woolwark's were amazing with my daughter a few years ago.  One of my top 10 days out ever.  I got the impression that there is a descent path down the ridge - there wasn't in 2021!!!!  Come down the stone shoot or carry on up the ridge if you have time.

Thanks Ben 🙂

On a glorious day back in the 70s my wife and I set off from Glen Brittle, did Window Buttress to Sgurr Dearg, then dropped down from the Bealach Coire na Banachdich into Coireachan Ruadh to Coruisk.  Back up the Dubh slabs, over Dubh Mor and Dubh na da Bheinn, and home down Coire a'Ghrunnda.  A feast of rock scenery and flowing movement (or so memory says, we were young and fit).  Truly one of the Great Days.  Highly recommended.