UKC

UKC Fit Club Week 843

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity. 

Link to last week’s thread; 

UKC Forums - UKC Fit Club Week 842 (ukclimbing.com) 

Another keen week of comments where I inadvertently started a sub-topic with what was intended to be a supplementary comment to Inglesp.  Anyway, glad it caught fire and very interesting reflections all on the ‘old chestnut’ - clearly a worthwhile thread if it caused Si DH to join in!  I think the comment from Ian about the mental side is also intriguing, so I am including my own comments in the normal write up for the week.  Another week where Tom has impressed with some big mountain days. 

Stats: 

Mattrm:  Nice to discover an area that was ‘wonderful’ although seems a bit further to get to for training and recce work.  At least it should inspire some trips out (assuming you recover at some point). 

That sounds like a genuinely rough week.  I have heard of a few people testing negative for days on end, only to then start getting positive results, so something strange may be going on.  Glad that the preamble section at the front end of the week didn’t prevent heavy duty DIY work at the back end of things – obviously you are on the mend so hope you can get back into some sort of routine. 

‘Let’s see how it all goes’ – well yes, but at the moment I confess I may be watching through clasped hands!  Fingers crossed that you have had a better week that is more like your plan. 

SSB:  You really were keen on Earth Quarry!  A decent return marred by the slip and trashed shin, though very big points for going out for a run on return!  That is some dedication to the cause. 

Good to see you back to the campusing.  At least that doesn’t need your legs.  Also interested to see the repeater sets, which seem quite popular across FC at the moment.  I find them a bit tedious, as well as being hard to drive through at BW anyway, so I do them very rarely.  I probably should do some though as the weather is preventing a lot of mileage, which is how I usually get my stamina back to something like. 

A nice weekend in the Dales by the look of it – those kids are going to be TdF competitors at this rate! 

Alan:  Germany sounds as if the weather is even worse than here, which is saying something this year.  I know that work can interfere, but I have quite a bit of flexibility really, yet only one day out in March and five in April shows what it has been like. 

Sounds like you are struggling to get takers for your Konstein projects.  If only FC sponsored air tickets! 

For a deload week you have managed a surprising amount of exercise, with a good bit of variety in there as well.  Interesting results at the end of the week with your project work, probably demonstrating that being rested is a good state for things at your limit.  Sounds like some core strength indicated by the filming (sag away) as it seems to be a body tension thing? 

A good end to things, despite feeling tired at the outset. 

Tyler:  I refer you to your post from the previous week ; ‘Went on Old Guys Rule but literally can’t do one of the moves, I spent a long time and can’t fathom it which is annoying as it’s not supposed to be that hard and is on my unfinished business list!’.  Interesting what a different perspective comes along a few days later with ‘no routes on it that are impossible for me’!  Excellent. 

Your comments did make me wonder about what divides a ‘project’ from a bit of ‘unfinished business’.  It is different from trad, in that everyone knows unfinished business on trad is because of a previous failure.  Yet sport includes the concept of setting out to (well, sort of…) fail.  I’m interested because this is a bit of the mindset that I struggle with – the disappointment of not getting up the thing on the flash is quite powerful still.  Perhaps I just need to go for something much harder where I ‘know’ I won’t get up it – treat it as a training project! 

Reflections aside, you had a good week with four days spent on rock. Including three at the elbow trashing steepness of Pen Trwyn.  I can help with your ‘rule’ btw – don’t go on things that you have already described as ‘very unpleasant’ would do it, unless you want to add some sort of Catholic penance on top of your Sisyphean tasks. 

Ian Parnell:  No, not defensive at all and no apologies needed!   

Does Amanita Muscarina not count as your E4 by the end of May?  Just trying to get you over the line with your STG, but it is your rules anyway!  Regardless, good effort from both of you.  It is a long trip down there, so is bound to impact on your work week, but good to see that you got back to something later in the week and indeed had a good session at the wall, a decent run and a nice bit of outdoor bouldering as well.  Much more positive reflections from you this week and progress looks consistent to me. 

Great to hear that you are now available Mondays.  Sorry that I couldn’t help this Friday, but away for a family jamboree.  A shame, as it looks to be a decent day. 

Very entertained by your enthusiastic contributions to the grade discussion.  FWIW, your initial post listing the basic comparisons (E1 = 5-6a+ etc.) is about where I always felt things were at for me as a steady E3 climber who would typically onsight 6c 90% of the time, and battle up E4s with a following wind and E5 with a gale and the stars in alignment.  I think the main difference is that ‘proper; sport climbing adjusts this by projecting everything, so you find people doing 7a who have a trad limit of HVS. 

Steve Claw:  Amazing to hear how quiet it has become.  I guess Cheddar is a draw these days, whereas nobody went there in 1977!  It always was an outlier, but people used to go to test themselves on the runouts.  Again, perhaps out of fashion now! 

Agree, slabs can be very hard to grade at that sort of level.  Another really strong week for you though, with the Monday trip up AM only an appetiser.  Completing the Handsome Jim Experience is really going some in the sun as the (fairly few) logbook comments make it seem very tenuous indeed.   

Press ups rarely make for a fine end to the week, so another good effort on the Avon route in yet more intense heat.  The only blip in the week was the challenges of your project, which sounds as if it needs a lot of work, plenty of practice and perhaps some out of reach training? 

Tom Green:  The testing results were probably expected given that you haven’t been consistently working at these.  After all, much of the gain with max hangs is neural adaptation, so they need consistency.  Anyway, interesting to see what the re-evaluation brings and I’d also reflect that you’ve had a lot of outstanding successes lately, so the fingerboard goals aren’t really that important. 

The hill day/s at the weekend follow your recent pattern of pulling something big out of the bag – really impressive and great training for your alpine goals which look like they will be appearing on the MTG with this next cycle in mind? 

In amongst this a trip to Kilnsey.  I’ve been once to do Central Wall, before much of the modern development had taken place.  It was a bit of a PITA to get to from Lancaster and didn’t have loads at my grade, so interesting that you are projecting there now.  I haven’t really looked in the guide for 45 years, so there is probably stuff to put on the plan and I used to like steep things! 

Ross Barker:  I’m planning micros as well as I feel like I need to introduce a fair bit more variety.  I did set off to get my basic strength back and I feel that has largely been achieved.  Now I need a good way of working some other areas and am beginning to resign myself to plenty of wall sessions next winter! 

Magic Wood does look lovely in photos!  Yes, you are going to run out of conditions soon for some of the hard bouldering goals that you have.  Interesting to see that you are including a lot of light (rehab) hanging – I think you were doing density hangs type-length.  Anyway, plenty of them across the week, so good to see serious work on rehab (if not antagonists)! 

Good weekend session at Caseg in that you have added another goal.  Might be the wrong time of year for lots of new bouldering goals, but good to see you psyched for a particular SDS!  As with Tom – I’ve no idea what a ‘small box move’ is, which may explain my modest success! 

Biscuit:  Your falling practice has featured in the ongoing discussions as a shining example of thinking-outside-the-box training.  Good to see more of it this week, though again the unplanned variation!  There’s no telling what will hold sometimes, and hopefully your faith in small nuts – even RPs – might be restored.  I once had a pretty big fall onto a No.1 when the top of a crag decided to give up and I was amazed that I stopped.  My brother (belaying) ended up surrounded by suitcase-sized boulders, but unscathed.  A lot depends on the amount of rope out I think. 

Never heard of Gaitkins and looks a good recommendation, though a bit spread out perhaps?  Less impressed with the sound of the Duddon thing… 

Plenty of work in the early part of the week and good to see another recommendation for campus board stuff.  There have been a few applying themselves this winter and ‘brutally effective’ sounds like a good outcome. 

The Sheep:  Yes, I guess the cycling is reasonably easy to complete if you have good base fitness in your legs, though another thing where technique might make a difference. 

Good week training for your next event with some pretty big distances in the hills.  Excellent to then throw yourself at the weights with very predictable results.  Obviously, a degree of over enthusiasm, but you will settle into a routine with it reasonably quickly.  Progress is always pretty rapid, so care needed, but I like your idea of combining stretching and swimming – probably very complementary. 

AJM:  Great to hear that your troublesome shoulder seems to be recovering somewhat, despite giving it a degree of hammer at the Yat.  Good also to see that you are doing some proper rehab work on it through the week as I’m not convinced that doing nothing is effective in repair or in strengthening things to help with prevention. 

Interesting to see a return to the fingerboard work and good to see you were in a similar place to before.  I’d suggest that probably indicates you have some way to go with these as it is an exercise that responds quite quickly to repetition.  Either your neural pathways haven’t forgotten much, or possibly you hadn’t previously applied yourself for long enough to see the gains develop strongly.  Maybe it is age, but if I hadn’t done them since February, I’d be starting at something like 40% of my previous best and that would feel grim for a few sessions before it started to get back into the groove.  Perhaps try two sessions a week, six sets each session with the aim of completing a six-week cycle. 

I like the Sunday session – this is something I do feel qualified to comment on! 

Randy:  Those Wednesday start-the-week lock offs look strong, particularly at the 170 end of the range.  Impressive to be holding ten seconds!  Pull ups going along nicely as well, so the basic platform is still in place.  I think the weak feeling fingers are just a legacy of illness. 

We are all waiting for this send to happen, but the conditions continue to frustrate you!  I’m not sure how far you have to travel to find wet holds, but hopefully not too far.  Although the wet holds prevented a redpoint effort, you’ve got some useful further learning done in any case.  Good to get a play on the other project as well, although it sounds as if you are not convinced that you have found a better solution. 

A sensible plan to continuing your recovery – a bit more time using the climbing facilities is probably necessary to get your movement going again.   

Liam P:  Yes, the weight loss is impressive and surprising when you consider how heavy those weights can feel – I still find weighted pull ups quite difficult as I haven’t worked them for long, so even just plus 10kg feels pretty tough.  That used to be my bodyweight two years ago, when I was managing 100 plus a couple of times a week!   

Interesting that campus board work didn’t make you any better.  I guess it depends what sort of routes you are doing and anyway, all these energy systems inter-relate. 

OA hangs look steady though I think you’re doing more sets now at 86%.  Good to see the fairly focused micro work on the schedule and it will be interesting to see how this feels outside soon.  Forward folds going really well now and a good reminder to me to do more of these!   

A hot trip to Portland by the sound of things and more time spent on the bouldering.  I’ve never bothered with this when down there (why would you after five hours drive?), but you seem keen to test yourself.  Some decent results anyway. 

Ally:  These muscle injuries can take a while, so good to hear that things are improving.  Less good news on the wrist though as that can also really interfere with things. 

BW pull-ups in tens on the minute is hard work!  I haven’t been doing as many pull-ups as I used to do, but having a short rest cycle really does make them pumpy – I used to feel that I could sustain sixes on the minute for ever (certainly 30 mins was common), but performance would quickly fall off when I went up to 7, 8, 9 or 10. 

20mm edge lifts at 66kg is really heavy so good progress there.  I know it is ‘only’ BW, but a completely different set of muscles engaged in a lift.  Good work also on the one-arm hangs and the stuff on micros (another reminder to extend my training set-up). 

Good session at Manley Knoll helped by friendly grading – certainly a productive sub two-hour session.  Some hard bike riding in there as well – a decent week despite three days of ‘lazy’! 

SteveJC94:  Good to see some proper bank holiday shenanigans taking place in Gdansk.  Hopefully managed to get through without feeling the long arm of the local law. 

As statter, I do look at comparisons, especially with training elements that I don’t really have in my portfolio – it is a way of getting some grip on performance.  Your Monday ride at 28.5km/h is classified as zone 2, whereas Ally called >29kph ‘pretty hard’.  You’ve been doing quite regular bike training, so clearly paying off in terms of cycling fitness – good work.  It would be interesting to see what words you’d use to describe your Thursday zone 3 ride at 33 kph? 

Good to see continuing rehab and more work on the circuit board taking place, all with no mention of the wrist.  At least you have done enough to know that it has repaired well and shouldn’t cause any problems, even if you don’t feel that you are in the place that you want to be yet. 

Small Step:  Interesting reflections on motivation and I completely agree.  I had a bit of a moment myself this week as a frustrating day chasing weather ended up somewhere where I and my partner hadn’t got much left to do.  Predictably, we didn’t get a lot done, which was a poor return for a longish drive.  I was kicking myself on return for not making better choices (all with hindsight of course) and pretty demotivated generally.  However, I got back to my schedule and started to make a plan for more focused development for next winter (addressing weaknesses more directly) and two sessions later felt much better again! 

More good results for you at the wall – twelve routes in and 6b+/6c is a strong result, especially with a new partner.  It sounds like the visit two days later was less rewarding, but you have been hitting the wall a lot.  Introducing variety is important to keep changing the stimulus, so good to see some different stuff at the weekend.  If only the weather would improve! 

Thanks for responding to Ian’s thoughts on mental preparation.  I haven’t watched the video yet, but I will try to follow it up over the weekend. 

Inglesp:  Good to see you getting away to North Wales and having a decent session on the Grochan and what looks like a very pleasant run in a different environment. Both of the training runs looks positive, with the Thursday cycle of Fartleks particularly impressive – they look like a fairly brutal training pattern and probably very effective. Indeed, re-reading, you’ve put four runs into the week and the long run at the start was a strong pace for the distance as well. 

Nice to get a two-destination day in completing stuff on the Grochan and an evening in the quarries – they can be a very pleasant place to be despite the powerful sense of a tough history. Similarly with Newborough followed by Moel Siabod – another excellent double-header.  

No worries about your last-minute entries – I always do a last-minute check! 

Interesting to see what forms our perceptions of this sort of thing. A couple of my best buddies at uni were nearly-national-level time trialists, which led me to regard 25mph/40kmh as "normal". Which I'm sure it isn't.

Yeah, and it not looking much better. It rained a lot during the week so it did not even bother to check out the conditions this weekend. Just was not motivated to drive more than 2 hours just to confirm that it is not in condition, yet . At least weatherforecast for next weeks look better, so maybe i could give it a try, though i am also not convinced that i am in necessary shape to send it.

Recap last week:

Mon: Rest

Tues: Indoor Climbing, Elements Bouldering; did a lot of easy to medium volume in  the 5a to 6a+ range, felt quite out of shape but nevertheless managed to flash everything, including a couple of more comp style problems, finished the session with weighted Pullups + 28kg; 4x6

Wed: 2x20s L-Sit, Handstands, 2x8 Pikepushups, 10 Fingertips Pushups, 30 pushups, 45s V-Situps, went better than expected, especially the Handstands felt quite ok

Thur: Indoor Climbing, Elements Bouldering; 1 6b+ flash, 1 6c second go, apart from that i basically got my ass kicked on a bunch of 6c to 6c+ problems, Weighted Pullups +28kg; 4x6, one-arm-lockoffs 170°, 2x20s which felt suprisingly easy

Fri: Rest

Sat: Rest, trying to recover from a party with a bunch of colleagues, i am definately getting to old to be able to operate on 2h hours of sleep

Sun: Indoor Climbing, Elements Bouldering, sent one of 6c that shut me off last session after a couple of tries, Kilterboard at 40° afterwards: 2x 6a+, 2x6b, 2x6b+, tried a 6c but got shut down; 2x6b+, 2x6b, 2x6a+, 2x6a; Weighted Pullups + 28kg: 3x6, 8 (completely maxed out with bad form on the last rep) with 3 min rest, One-Arm-Lockoffs @170° with 6kg added weight: 2x20s; not really in board shape, yet and still quite tired despite sleeping more than 10h; pullups went suprisingly well, the one-arm-lockoffs were also interesting, did not felt much harder despite a big jump in weight, possible explanation that the hard part at that angle is stopping the rotation where the weight does not really matter

Slowly getting back in shape, but still a lot to do. Interestingly i did not really loose my pullups shape and feel like i am back on the same level already. I also don't think that much is missing for the one-armer. Goal is to get this done till end of june. For the next 2-3 week i plan to continue with weighted pullups, but increase weight and reduce reps to get more max power. Afterwards, some more specific one-armer training will hopefully result in getting this long term goal done.

Thanks Derek. Excellent level of detail as ever and much appreciated.

This week went awry quite early with some sort of virus hitting me on Sunday night. Monday was a total wipe out spent in bed. Tuesday and Wednesday I was able to work but nothing else. Thursday I felt well again but rested.

Friday I went to Malham again. I’ve been there more this year than in the last 5 years put together. That’s still only 4 times though. My aim was to get a couple of low 7 ticks. I got on puddle jumper and once I realised I was doing the start wrong I felt it should go. 4 goes later I still felt it should go but I kept falling off the easy finish. This has prompted some thoughts about active and passive hand grips that I am going to do an article on. Give me something to hook onto and I’ll hang on it all day. If I’m forced to make a shape with my hand and hold it I melt in about 5 seconds. 
 

Today I went to  Egerton Quarry as the lakes looked rainy. I started off by getting confused on Satin Sapphire (E3 5c). 3 different guidebooks with 3 different descriptions. I went for the protection but had to pull off a pretty hard move to get to the arete - foot swap while full span holding a mono and the arete. It turns out I should have traversed with my hands where my feet were.  I should also have gone around the arete onto its other face for a good rest. Either way when I got to the crux move it felt very bold and I decided it wasn’t for me. 

Next up was Niff-Niff the Guinea Pig (E2 5b) which was all going fine until I broke a foothold totally unexpectedly. That freaked me out for a route that has spaced micro gear. So again I bailed. I’m sure I would have done it, but it would not have been fun as I’d have constantly been worrying about snappage.

So, not a great day, but I’m pleased with my decision making. It kept me safe today. And I had a good catch up with a couple of friends I’ve not seen for a while. 

On that note I did also top rope what is going to be a new E4/5 6a. Eliminate route but some great moves. 
 

I forgot I went for a (hot) run yesterday. Just under 10k.240m ascent in an hour. First proper run in a LONG time. I enjoyed it. 

I might be the exact counter example to this, I’m having to relearn how to crimp after 15 years for dragging and draping. Now my fingers won’t physically go into a crimp without some real concentration and effort.  

Hi clubbers. Thanks for the continued thoughtful feedback, Derek.

Yes, some of the more physical, focussed climbing goals have fallen by the wayside, but I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I still made a little progress with things like max hang weight despite the lack of consistency. Although I think that, at some point, these areas of performance will need prioritising to make continued improvement, I think at the moment I will still get bigger returns from skipping these sessions to climb if the opportunity presents. Hopefully the imminent Mingulay trip supports that!

Week 19:

M: Rest.

T: Rest -work over ran so no opportunity for planned session.

W: Indoor climbing. Max hangs, short limit boulder sesh, 4x4s on the autobelay.

T: Trail run. 13.2km, 478m vert, 6:30/km.

F: Sport at Trollers Gill. Got back on The Jim Grin (7a) (after two sessions last summer) -actually felt harder than I remembered, but I think with beta refinement it may go without too many sessions.

S: Hill run. 17.4km, 547m vert, 8:56/km. Epically gruelling fight through tussocks, bog, streams and sink holes! The numbers do not reflect how big a work out this was!

Social bouldering up to 6A at  Goldsborough Carr -lovely venue, would like to revisit to get stuck in to some of the highballs.

S: Sport at Kilnsey. Managed target of getting The Directissima (6c) in a session (not counting the soaking wet aid ascent as P1 of the Overhang last year!) Pleased to get this despite a moderately savage hangover and third day on.

Week 20:

M: Rest.

T: Run.

W: Climb.

T: Rest.

F: Glen Coe Skyline. 

S: Set sail for desert island climbing.

S: Climbing.

STG (End of May)

Sula (E2 5b)

Glen Coe skyline.

Cuillin ridge.

MTG (End of July)

Two of my Grande Course wish list.

Two more chilled alpine rock routes.

Thanks Derek, an excellent set of stats as always.

Going off feel, I'd say "moderately hard". My power meter's been playing up and is currently being recalibrated by Stages so I haven't got any power data, but my average heart rate for that ride was 168bpm, so towards the top of Zone 3 (155-174bpm for me). I've always struggled with long endurance but Tempo/Sweet-spot fitness (generally 30minute-90minute rides, or putting in hard efforts on climbs) has always been a strong point for me and I find I can maintain Zone 3 and 4 efforts for longer than typical, though my Zone 2 stats are very poor by comparison. Overall, I'd say my physiology is naturally far more suited to cardio sports than climbing or strength based sports, with middle-distance track and cross country running being my main sport as a junior. Just a shame that I find running really boring now that I'm no longer competing! 

I'd say the main thing that's helped my speed over the years is getting progressively more aerodynamic on the bike, which has taken a lot of fine tuning, stretching and core strength training to hold a low position and still put out power in an uncomfortable position.  

M - HB repeaters @40%. 20mm edge / varied grips / 7s on 3s off x 6 / 10 sets. General bouldering session on the V5-7 Depot circuit

T - Flat zone 2 ride. 42km / 206m ascent / 1hr24mins / 29.8km/hr average

W - Rest 

T - Rest

F - 4 x 10 minute easy ARCing sets on the circuit board

S - Flat zone 2 ride. 60km / 310m ascent / 2hr6mins / 29km/hr average

S - A steady day bagging some of the HVS classics at Millstone

I'm not planning to climb this week to give my skin a chance to fully recover before 2 weeks of abuse on Pabbay and Skye, though I'll try and squeeze in another bike session.

Likely no signal for next weeks' Fit Club so I'll probably check-in sometime the week after while we're on Skye. 

It's pretty grounding riding with strong riders but is definitely motivating. One of my riding buddies, who weights a kilo less than me, has an FTP of 317 watts (5.1 w/kg) and has ridden a sub-20 minute 10 mile time trial (just shy of 50 km/h average!)

It's bonkers when you take a look at the pro riders stats, where 300 watts is still zone 2 for the likes of Van Aert and Van der Poel who both have FTPs approaching 450 watts!  

Thanks Derek. Another week where training results seem to be coming along nicely - although it would be nice now to get out and put some of it into practice! I did get at least get a day out in the hills, even if it was not on rock and definitely type 2 fun.

STG: depends on local weather & conditions
MTG: tick any of my local long term projects and/or a new-to-me 7a 
LTG: Be a confident, well rounded low to mid 7's sport climber. For measurable definition see Fit Club 823
LTG: Winter 24 or 25 - do an actual off piste ski tour.

M: Strict rest day, having done two fairly hard training days at the weekend. I now have my rings permanently hung up at home and have been doing gtg pull-ups, false grip hangs etc, but none of that today. Did stretch for half an hour before bed

T: Wall, Thalkirchen. 5c 6a 6b (desperate!) 6a 6b+ 6b 6a+. I rarely have a good routes session at Thalkirchen, and today was no exception. Partly I just find it less congenial than the other local walls, partly also - definitely today - because I'm not fully recovered if I've done a hard session on Sunday.
    I keep going largely for social reasons, and from that perspective today was a success. Met up & climbed with an old friend I've hardly seen since before the pandemic. And recruited a belayer for one of my Konstein projects at the weekend, weather permitting.

W: Ten minute bike ride to the local market in full waterproofs and pouring rain discouraged me from trying to ride anywhere further away.

T: Rings session at home in the evening - 3x5 pullups, dips, rows, one arm planks

F: My potential Konstein partner for the weekend bailed due to a deteriorating weather forecast. Fair enough. At least that allows me to get to Thalkirchen today for another session on my kilterboard project. And  - allez moi! - now I need a new project. Same thing again but 5° steeper, possibly.
    Deadlifts 5x70, 4x80, 3x90. First time I've ever ventured above bodyweight - scary
    Bike 45 minutes

S: Rainy day hillwalking, Hohe Kisten. Kept the pace steady on the uphill, both to stay in Zone 2 and in the vain hope of mitigating the boil-in-the-bag effect of hiking uphill wearing waterproofs
    Unwelcome discovery of the day: there are holes in the lightweight drybag I use to protect my wallet and other valuables when I'm out & about in the rain.

S: Wall. In which I continue to climb better at Freimann than at Thalkirchen. 6a 6b 6c (os) 6b+ 6b 6b+ 6b 6c (dog). The 6c I onsighted was definitely soft, but it was on the steep comp wall, so I'm still awarding myself brownie points for venturing onto something at my onsight limit at an angle I find intimidating.

Thanks Derek, shin getting gradually better but not there yet. Seems ok climbing and cycling now but still sore running.

Mon. 6km run.

Tues. Max hangs (+28kg), 5x7 pull ups, 3x10 press ups.

Wed. 5km run.

Thurs. Rest.

Fri. Raven tor session. I've done all the boulders I can do there and everything else seems really hard. Ended up failing to climb undercuts to crimps for ages. Did a lap of A little extra when some kind souls took pity on the fact I'd not actually done any moves and gave me a belay instead! Did a few laps of weedkiller then campused it in 2 sections a few times. A good workout but nothing new.

Sat. 11km kiddy cycle.

Sun. Robin hood's stride and Cratcliffe with the kids. Small Swede was a beast. It's the first time we've tried proper guide book problems and he did about 10 Font3/3+ problems and a 4. He was really happy 'just imagine what I'll be able to do when I'm 7 daddy!'. In between I flashed The Kid (f7A), then 4th go on The Kid Direct Finish (f7A+). The big effort of the day was Dry Wit in a Wet Country (f7A) which was utterly desperate. I couldn't reach the crack to rock up onto the right foot and the short beta pebbles are gone now so I eventually botched something with a desperate smear on nothing. Felt way harder than 7A to me. Pretty beat up after some heft falls but the leg felt fine which was a bonus.

Thank you Derek,

I am definitely weaker with pull strength than I was last year, mostly due to the Elbow tendons meaning I can't do any proper pull training.  I did go back to the project again this week and sorted out the first half again, so not as far behind as I thought I was.

I have been trying to get some hard climbing in the past few weeks, and am loosely trying to do 1 hard route a week (sport redpoint 7c or Trad ground up E5)

M - Rest

T - Physical day at work

W - Another short session on the Wild West Project.  Got the first half sorted again, but it feels harder than I remember.  The top half is still way too hard.

T - E5 tick with The Cover Up (E5 6b) done pretty much on-sight. Also a short 7a+

F - Had a TR play on Academic (8a), but the steep round doesn't allow for shunting to work the beta, so gave up.  Luckily a friend came later and showed me how its done, so might work that again soon.  Had a play on the Railed off cave with TR on Tunnel Vision (E4 6c) and a look at the other close by.

S - Nothing

S - TR play on the Ramp.  Arms Race (E4 5c) first go and surprised how I wasn't too pumped at the top (obviously not placing gear, so moving fast).  Then nearly got Bold as Love (E6 6b), but messed up the beta a bit.  I think this could be a good way to build up the strength and stamina in a fun way that is less intensive (for the elbows) than a hang-board.

Thanks Derek for your sterling stats work. I’m afraid the E4 needs to be onsight so no tick!

STG - E4 end of May (0/1). 20 6th grade boulder problems (16/20). 50 sport routes by end of May (15/50). 30 trad routes by end of May (13/30) MTG: Pabbay Trip – onsight E5

Mon – Depot bouldering wall. Warm up 5 each white, blue, black, then 24 x pinks. 3rd day on, felt tired.

Tues – Rest

Wed – 4 miles easy run around the woods.

Thurs – rest

Fri – Amazing day at Gogarth. Dropped kids off at school then drove to N Wales. Got to main cliff just after 2pm, climbed till 9pm, got home 2am. Started with Syringe (E4 6a) watched by seals. Described in the guide as ‘requiring a wide repertoire of skills and a cool head’. Led pitch 1; long, sustained and very traditional. Seconded pitch 2, foot slip on last move of crux – bit gutted, as about as close to the onsight as possible. Bit of a debate on what next with my partner calling for something easier but went for The Needle (E3 5c), which according to the guide ‘defines the top of the E3 grade’.  Absolutely amazing route which I was pleasingly able to climb well, leading the crux pitch 2. Walked out as sun dipped into the sea with Ireland very visible on horizon.

Sat – Rest. Scraped through work on vapours

Sun – 4 mile walk with Ali riding her horse. Foot on campus board 1min on 1 min off x 5, 58 secs on 1 min off, 38 secs on (Total 396 secs on with 360 rest, prev 371secs but 328secs rest)

Reflection - Not a big week in terms of training, but finally felt a real step forward in my climbing this year. Yes, I was on routes that really suit my strengths, and yes, I still haven’t onsighted my E4 yet. But I was able to keep calm and in control on all 4 hard pitches of both routes on Friday. The first time I’ve felt this year that the training has had a noticeable tangible effect.

This weeks training question. I'm planning on doing 3 more lots of foot on campusing over the next few weeks before Pabbay. Should I... (a) Go back to my old system of climb to failure x 7 with rest equaling time on i.e something like 90 secs, 70 secs, 50 secs, 40 secs etc (b) do as I did this time and aim for 7 x 60secs on 60secs off, and add extra sets if I can do that. (c) do as for (b) but to add progression reduce rest time or (d) do as for (b) but to progress extend time on to 70secs etc?

Yeah, I did wonder about Old Guys Rule when I wrote that! Given other people's experiences of the route I'm convinced I should be able to do the move and when I can the route will follow very quickly....

For me a project is something that is all consuming and you devote all your climbing to it whereas unfinished business is something you'll get on next time you're at the crag. Some of my unfinished business will become projects but, hopefully, pretty short ones.

M & T: Rest

W: No after school club so forced out bouldering. Weather dictated the coast and as I was parking up for Manor Crag I realised I wanted to go to Bodafon which I thought would be a shorter walk. After 45 minutes I'd still not found the bouldering buttress so phoned a friend, I eventually found the bouldering but gave up on climbing there as getting my matts though the vegetation was just too exhausting. I had an hour at Parisellas before dark where I managed the third quarter of Left Wall traverse in four, non-overlapping sections. Believe it or not I was pleased with that.

T: Martin was 'desperate' to climb so wasn't to be persuaded to the Beacon despite the iffy forecast. Various esoteric venues were visited but the weather got wetter as the evening wore on. We ended up at the Beacon 1.5 hours before closing and blasted ourselves.

S:  Drove down Ogwen late afternoon with various half baked plans. There was a parking space at Milestone so decided on a trip up Grooved Arête (HVD 4a) which I'd never done. I'm not a natural soloer so was quite anxious about polish or getting lost (I got lost trying to find the Heather Terrace!) but knew once I started I'd find the climbing easy enough for my worries to evaporate. As it turned out the climbing was much more tricky than I expected and there were a couple of bits that really gave me pause, one in particular felt almost risky. After getting lost again on the decent I was pretty knackered by the time I got back to the car so called it a day. I'm glad it turned out that way though as the route deserves to be engaged with fully, its absolutely brilliant and it was a memorable day.

S: Forecast turned poor overnight but lucky for me Pete was still keen for LPT. Warmed up on a new (for me) route so I was happy. The new guide shows Mean Mother going slightly left at the crux which was a relief so I went back on it to try this way. Pretty quickly found some reasonable beta and investigated the other tricky section I'd not really looked at. Managed the route in two halves which is better than expected then had a flailing TR on Pink Pinkie to remove the remaining skin on my fingers

That *is* a good day and makes me feel quite pathetic that I've not visited Gogarth since I moved back here. Syringe is a rare route for me in that it is one I've done twice, I'm very keen for Assassin down that end of the crag and now I can OS French 6b I'm more than qualified to get on it.....!

Ha ha yes 6b should get you up Assassin. It's got a squeeky bum bit mind!

There’s a definite difference. I’ve always been much better at positive holds than flatties. There’s one slopey/flatty on puddlejumper and it nailed me. So time to do something about it. 

Thanks Derek - in depth stats as always.  Just to be clear though - 66kg is nowhere near body weight, which as crept up to a fairly consistent 79kg

Week 19

M – Lazy. Gentle COMPEX on oblique.

T – 5x10 BW pull-ups on-the-minute (unsurprisingly hard). Yves style 20mm edge lifts in half-crimp. Progressive warm-up, then bailed on the 5x working sets of 4x reps @67kg after failing even the first set; beans just not there.

W – 20min stretching and weighted mobility.

T – Half-day at the gorge. Oblique just about pain-free, but core feeling weak.  Working sections on a chunky link.  Going to need some extra juice for this one: A) be core fit B) increase PE C) move quicker!  Later, experimenting with different options to provide incremental difficulty on the half50kg York blob I’ve purchased. I found that a combination of 4fingers+thumb with RH and 1 finger+thumb made for a very difficult, but obtainable lift. Perfect 😊

F – 23km flat / 51min road ride. COMPEX on core/oblique.

S – Half day wandering around Ness gardens with family. When home, 5x7 BW pull-ups on-the-minute. Yves style 20mm edge lifts in half-crimp. Progressive warm-up, then 5x working sets of 4x reps @66kg (67kg R; 65kg L).  Very very hard, just finished all the reps. 3x10 OHP with 25kg barbell.

S – Spent most of the day gardening, split with an hour on the Moonboard. First time using the board in a month. Oblique weak but not grumpy. Wrist gentle grumble when trying to undercut on a 7C (dropped off immediately). Managed 2x 6B+ and 1x 7A BM that were recent additions and did some project shopping at higher grades.

Really interesting stuff (even for a non-cyclist).  As you are heading out of signal, best of luck with your trip - hope you get some good stuff done!

Morning all! Top stats job as always Derek.

You're not wrong there! I've updated my goals accordingly. Some aren't too conditions dependent, so on days that aren't scorching I could still have decent sessions.

I think these very light hangs are working quite well too, so I'll try and keep them up as long as I can. It only takes 10 minutes so even if I'm not rehabbing any injury it is probably a good thing to continue. The A2 is still improving to a point where I'm getting quite confident in it.

High feet, square hips, tiny hand holds, and an awkward off-balance lurch to something that definitely isn't a jug!

A good week from me. Short board session, good number of light hangs, productive dugout session, and fabulous exploration of some esoteric Welsh highball.

Last Week:

M - AM very light hangs. Evening short (40m incl. warmup) board session and a few sets of pushups. Ice baths before bed.

T - Weigh-in at 78.1kg. AM and PM very light hangs.

W - AM very light hangs. Evening The Dug Out. Opted for some longish (to me) links to build up a bit of power endurance in hopes of being able to do more than 15 moves when DWS season rolls around! Short session but the forearms definitely felt it. Ice baths before bed.

T - AM and PM very light hangs.

F - Rest.

S - Scenic day at Craig Y Hyrddod. Warmed up on Feral Streak (f6C+), then Dame Wander (f7A), both excellent problems. The main event, however, is the gobsmacking Silence of the rams (f7B). Sussed a reasonable sequence to about half way, the top looks immensely thin but doable. Hard to try on a shunt, none of the holds are incut enough to get established from the seated harness position! Conditions were pretty good with the altitude and northerly aspect.

S - Rest.

Next Week:

M - Dugout.

T - Rest.

W - Antagonists.

T - Bouldering.

F - Rest.

S, S - Bouldering.

Goals:

Sort out the A2 injury.

Improve ability on tiny edges. Still unsure on logistics, but the weekend had some small hold ratting and I fared okay.

Work on PE.

Oberth Effect Proj.

Harvey Oswald SDS.

Good effort Ross!  Great to see some pioneering. 🙂

No fat shaming was intended in the making of this post 😂

Cheers Derek, had a good week of tapering, it came very easily which is worrying....

Monday, chilled day, got the caravan home and pottered around.

Tuesday, 1k swim

Wednesday, 1k swim

Thursday, stretch cancelled so got a 7k run done in the evening

Friday, work hectic all day so no exercise

Saturday, drove down to the in-laws for the race the following day, nice evening with plenty of food and a few glasses of wine. My eldest and her cousin decided to pop to the local for a quiet drink. The first one may have been quiet but the rest I imagine were pretty noisy given the state they rolled in at at 2 a.m. !!

Sunday, after the early wake up from the eldest our youngest then woke us up at 5.30 to tell us she couldn't sleep, by this point we gave up as we had to be off at 7.30 to get to the start. Still it gave me plenty of time to get ready and have a few coffees. Got to the start nice and early to collect my number and have a look around. It wasn't a very big race but there were some very serious looking athlete. As well as the half i was doing there was a full marathon and an ultra all starting at the same time. 

I therefore decided to start near the back as I didn't want to get in anyone's way who wanted to go all out. It was a lovely route that followed the river Chelmer from Chelmsford to Maldon. The majority of the way was single track trail so was happy not to hold anyone up and even occasionally passed some folk!! Having had better training in the lead up lead up to this event I felt pretty good all the way round, although my knees were aching a bit towards the end. The joys of getting old!

Anyway to cap it all off Strava told me it was my second fastest half which I'm happily taking  especially as my fastest would have been road based

Thanks Derek.

Monday - more fingerboard. I decided to focus on open hand, following Saturdays session. I tried the various front3 and middle2/front2 combinations. Who knew that rotation was a thing? - have to use the 2 fingers on the outer edge of the hold and the 3 fingers towards the inner side of the hold to stop the feeling that the board wanted to spin. I managed to do 5-7 second hangs on all the various combinations which is good, it’s nice to discover more options within the setup I usually take to my parents house. I don’t really want to end up lugging too much stuff about, so I generally take the portable fingerboard, a theraband, and I’ve got some ankle weights which chain together to make a 6kg belt and then there’s an extra 2kg I can tuck into it. At the moment that means front3 and back3 half crimp with some weight and now 3&2 open hand hangs at bodyweight.

Tuesday - rest

Wednesday/Thursday - walking to and fro work

Friday - rest

Saturday - Portland for a family faff day. First day of the year where it felt a bit hot over there. Cuttings, did a few easy things, out ropes up for the kids, managed to do a new (tricky!) 6b which should be on my graded list ticking, and did the classic Cutting Edge second go. Climbed like a bag of spanners first time up, struggled to read it and definitely a bit hesitant about some insecure positions and falling where the rope always seemed to be running across the arête - Ian’s thoughts from last week feeling very pertinent!  But after a few falls it felt better and it was fine second go.

Sunday - family faff day again, this time took them to the overgrown sandpit of the Agglestone where I mainly mooched about but also did a couple of cool steep juggy boulders.

Should have done more midweek but had some life admin going on that occupied a bunch of my time and focus. Hopefully it might be good for climbing in the medium term though, so hopefully worth it.

Hi all

Long time since I have posted on here (last time was fit club 634). Fit club really helped me get in shape for what I was aiming for back then by keeping me accountable, the goal then was getting fit for an alpine trip. This year its all focused on getting better on rock. Looking over the past few weeks there looks to be a really good community going on and Derek the stating looks amazing.

The big reason for posting is more to keep me on track on my main goal which is don't get injured. Like lots of people during covid I took up running and then when I could get back out on rock decided to try to hard straight away and hurt my shoulder then my arm. Past 6 months I've been injury free though so currently good going.

The aim for summer is trad climb as much as possible with the goal of e4 by the end of the year and then through the winter follow an actual training plan with the long term goal as e5 next summer.

So, I suppose I better right some goals down.

STG

Push ups at least once a week, minimum 3 sets of 10

1 Yoga session

Eat healthily all week and 1 cheat day on the weekend (I have a problem with I like food too much and working in the food industry its constantly available and before I know it I've ate 4 meals before finishing work 🤣 )

Write down what I am doing and create some form of log so I can see any trends and weaknesses.

MTG

e4 - I want Arms Race (E4 5c) but think I probably should settle for a potential soft route first to get my head into it, maybe something like Piggy Malone (E4 6a)

Visit more crags around the UK. I spend a lot of time in the wye valley, go to at least 2 new crags in the Gower and 2 in the south west.

Last week

M - Indoor lead climb session, routes up to 6c+, 

T - Rest

W - Indoor bouldering up to v4, lots of push ups (really need to start counting these)

T - Long day at work, rest in the evening

F - quick stop at Wintours after work and had a nice easy climb up Zelda (HS 4b) 

S - Trip to Shorncliffe, climbed Rebellion (E1 5b) and Cool Heat (E2 5b), wish I had read the comments on UKC before this as it turned out the thread had gone, the climbing as lovely just a bit more bold than I was expecting. seconded The Phoney War (HS 4b) and ...One for All (HS 4b)

S - Drive to Portland and walked around the Island with the better half. Next weeks stats will tick off one of my new crags.

Lee

Welcome back and hope you recognise some of the continuing community.  I'll provide some proper comment at the weekend. 🙂

Cheers Derek, another sterling set of stats.

I’m slowly reducing the weight taken off and occasionally testing BW. If comfortable on that I’m reducing the edge size and taking weight off again. Goal for this year was sets of OA hangs on the 20mm.

Yeah the Lattice Micros are getting used regularly - although all my PBs are on the ones at the wall which must be more sticky! I’m comfortable on 8mm but 6mm feels like the living end (even with weight off) so let out an audible ‘phwoarrrrr’ when reading Ally’s 6mm +9kg!

Tue

Antags

• Goodmornings 5x 10
• Tuck Dragonflags (Negatives) 3x 5
• Wall Handstands 3x 50s
• BA Planche 3x 10s

Wed

Fingers/OAPU

• OA Hangs 6x 10s 35mm (87%BW)
• OAPU Negatives w/Lockoff at Top/90/120 3x 1 (87%BW)

Thu

Wall

• OAPU (assist hand on shoulder) 3x 1
• Micros 3x 7s 8mm BW
• Campus 32mm: 1-3-5, 1-4-6, finally got a 1-3-6 so next progression is 1-4-7….then on to the 20mm rungs.
• Hour on comp wall

Sun

Portland Bouldering

• Stitched myself up last week when I climbed Years Around the Sun (f7A+) in two halves but missed the linking crossover move in the middle (which turns out to be the crux). Shut down for about 3 hours whilst working out beta but think I’ve got it. Now it’s getting warmer I was going to move on to routes but I’ll have to go back before I forget how to do it!

Weight has crept up 0.5kg (81.2kg) and my parents are down next week (mum is a feeder and dad loves Guinness) so need to stay strict this week…

Not the best week from me, though got a bit more disciplined with training.

Sun - Mon BH celebrations

Tues - chased the weather across North Wales, including walking to a couple of A55 crags to look at wet rock.  Eventually, in desperation chased it all the way to Castle Inn, which was boiling.  Realised fairly quickly why I hadn't been for years and my partner felt similarly, so a very demotivated day.  Did half-a-dozen routes, but not feeling it.  A bit disillusioned at the start of the drive home, but had rationalised it later.

Wed - did a mixed up session of starting a new cycle of max hangs on slopers (must have known what Biscuit was going to post) at 9kg, then 10.1kg to get going.  Weighted six sets of 2 from 9kg all the way to 20.3kg, so quite pleased to get back to this.  5x10 push ups and five sets of stretching.  Five sets of HB1 and 2.

Thursday - a bit pressed for time, but 5x10 @ 3 mins BW pull ups and four sets of stretching.

Away the rest of the week at family jamboree.  Great fun, but not much opportunity for activity and not home until Tuesday night, so a sort of unplanned deload.

Reflections:  I know this already, but no point going places where there is nothing left to do, particularly if they aren't much cop in the first place.  I definitely need the inspiration of new places in particular.  On top of that, I haven't got out enough recently and I'm finding that frustrating because things don't feel as straightforward as they should - again, slow down and do what I can.  It will come back!

Hi Derek, thanks as ever – I really enjoy reading your contributions to all of our doings. We can consider ourselves fortunate to have such a ‘minder’ to report to. The mental preparation is quite interesting for me in as far as I am hopeful to one day integrate all the stuff I do for my general wellbeing / trauma processing into climbing. At the moment, a work in progress. And just as we picked up on Dave Macleod, another video by him appears – where he comments the climb (posted on the website here). Which leads me to a general question, i.e. mental execution (as differing from preparation) – do Fit Clubbers intentionally / consciously talk to themselves on routes, affirmatively of course and not some trashy, denigrating self-talk? I’ve always aimed at stillness inwardly (blot out the negative voice) and tuned the senses outward and try to keep the verbalisation to a minimum (‘here’, ‘there’, etc.). Needless to say not always with success! But now becoming a bit more self-accepting, perhaps it’s time to try something else…mentor oneself through a route?

A better week for me. The black dog settled. The couple of days off the week before helped. Lots of volume and onsighting rather than projecting. Not what I intended, just how it turned out…

Mon: new wall for me, Heaven’s Gate, big moves with fewer footholds than I’m used to = far more dynamic climbing, pushing me well out my comfort zone – phew! 8 routes between 5c and 6b+. Route 7 was a 6b+ which I onsighted and I was quite chuffed about – as if I’d finally gotten into the groove. That said, a 6c+/7a I tried – I’ll have to come back in another lifetime to have even the ghost of a chance. New partner (from the week before), new rhythm, quite enjoyable.
Finished with a mini boulder session, which went well on slabby / vertical terrain: 1 x 6b, 2 x 6a’s.
Tue: upper body exercises & stretching.
Wed: wall, Thalkirchen. Only did 6 routes with my partner – she’s having a difficult time of it emotionally and has had to resort to antidepressant medication. A topic in itself – I feel quite safe but of course the usual ‘psyche’ isn’t there. Halfway through she needed a smoko, so we spent a large chunk of the session standing under an awning, talking or wrapped up in stillness while the rain pelted down. Taken together, at times we’re like a therapy group…if that’s what’s needed, then so be it…added 6 autobelay routes later: 2 x 6a+, 1 x 6b, 1 x 6b+, 2 x 6c. So, 12 routes again.
Thu: stretching & light jog
Fri: finger board session
Sat: long stretching session after filling sandbags for the farming co-op. Heavy labour. But certainly not as hard as tile laying…
Sun: wall, Thalkirchen, blitz session with the wife: 7 routes, incl. 2 x 6b+; climbed smoothly, albeit well within my limit; mega two-hour session on the 15° spray wall after – finally putting bigger links in, two self-defined problems, running diagonally across the whole board, ca. 15 moves.

Hopefully better weather ahead for you all in the UK or wherever…here the deluge continues…to the north, Frankenjura, there may be a chance…

In answer to your question Top Stepper my inner voice or quite often voices have often been quite loud. I’ve had many different experiences from literally talking myself out of routes whilst on lead, to a near euphoric rising crescendo of positivity through to a calm quiet observational non voice.
 

Nowadays I do try and give myself positive reinforcement. When placing gear I’ll quite regularly confirm to myself how good a placement is, I’ll then reinforce that by telling my belayer out loud that I’ve got bomber gear. When starting a hard sequence or a committing run out I do psyche myself up with a simple command by I’ll use non commital language like ‘ok let’s take a look’ to down play any tension. Once on crux sections I often get a bit growly or shouty which is embarrassing but I’ve come to realise is an unconscious system to block out the negative voice in my head. If I’ve got a good positive head of steam I’ll often cheer myself on when I reach a better hold again very simple ‘yes! Come on’. One thing I do quite consciously is calm myself down focusing on breath and muscle relaxation at shake outs.

I’ve heard top climbers describe their best ascents as having a very quiet mind almost waking up at the end of an ascent. But that’s never really occurred for me even when I’ve been climbing really well and tapping into proper flow. 

Going well Tom.  I guess you might also be off grid for a while?  Hope it goes well.

Yep! Just trying to get organised for it… it’s kind of crept up on me!

I’ll send my apologies for next FitClub now, but brace yourselves for a double post the following week! 

I’ll make sure I don’t blow your onsight by putting too much chalk up those E5s!

I don't go there often, but I remember years ago finding routes in the silos very spooky.

I spent some time on there last night trying to simulate the crux of one of my Konstein target routes, which involves a swap on some rather poor footholds while holding a semi-ok sidepull. Conclusion: there are no sufficiently bad footholds on the board.

I usually have a song running through my head while I'm climbing (Ohrwurm!), and I kind of let that be my focus if I don't want my mind getting up to other things. Sadly my conscious mind doesn't get to choose the song.

Or, if I'm climbing with one of my regular partners who I know is an excellent belayer, I'll try telling myself "hey, that's (for example) Stephan down there, it's perfectly ok to fall off"

The earworm thing is surprisingly effective as a tool!

I meant to add this into my report, but didn't...

I'm like Ian in managing myself.  I do have a quiet dialogue going on - sometimes including using the second for affirmation.  I keep this positive in the main ('gear is good', 'another stopping place up there') and I also use breathing - 'resonant' breathing to be precise on route and beforehand.

That said, I find this most difficult when physically pressed (no surprises there!) so have learned that my mental state is most relaxed when I'm climbing smoothly and most challenged when I'm climbing clunkily, so much so that I almost regard the two (physical / mental) as the same thing.  They sort of are, being the same body at play and I actually find it difficult to separate them out.  Perhaps that's my problem, but striving for smoothness, flow or whatever, is what delivers mental peace on a route.  As an analogy, I know that being able to do longer max hangs makes little difference to smoothness and flow, but it is a factor in the mix somehow and when I get smooth, the added strength helps.  No amount of training delivers smooth (even on walls for me) and (I think) the physical state of smooth / flow is what gives me mental calm - the impact of training this aspect feels marginal to me.

Have a great trip Tom!

Great discussions this week and last.

Since doing deliberate fall practice my dialogue has changed. It used to be a jumble of thoughts and trying to distract myself from the fact I was scared. The fall practice involved a lot of honest reflection between myself and my belayer (also my partner). This was a two way transaction and has been very positive. We also tested trad gear placements. Even after 25 yrs+ of climbing this has been a great learning experience. So now I am able to shut off much more the extraneous noise that can go on and focus on a risk assessment and then make a rational decision based on that. It's still ongoing and has a long way to go yet.

So my internal dialogue is now much more around assessing gear, assessing the risk and then making what I feel is a much more objective decision now. I am also much happier when I decide not to go on. I've thought it through, don't like it (for whatever reason) and it's not for me at the moment. Don't beat yourself up over it. 

Indeed.  As another analogy to your comment 'much happier when I decide not to go on' (which I agree with), I am also happier now with last year's approach of 'tie on and see how it goes' - better to have a go, learn something and possibly 'fail', then it is better than not stepping on it while waiting for the ideal state to arrive.

There may be a natural limit to this approach as the DNFs stack up, but I am some way off at the moment!

Meant to say - very positive reflections and summary from you as ever.  I think the 'objective' aspects of the decision making are useful particularly around assessing gear and things you might hit, partly because this is often more positive than the initial 'scared' feeling might be.  I notice this particularly when good gear is nearby, but out of sight beneath a bulge or around an arete - it can feel disproportionately scary and rational assessment helps.

Roughly what my partner said, 'unheimlich' - strange muffled echoes...we were outside on the new terrace area, urban climbing. Felt a bit like being back in Berlin...

That's true with the spray wall - it's the one thing that's bugging me at present. From a certain height onwards it's difficult to see the spax footholds - and even then most of them are pretty positive, certainly not slopey .... a shame because there are a couple of good sidepulls.

I can really relate to your Thalkirchen feeling. I only keep going there because I can go in the early afternoon. Escape time is about 5 pm...is it because of the general vibe there? Or it just gets too crowded and loud and pushy? If you're interested in trying an afternoon session, let me know...

Ha! Reminds me of Joe Simpson and Boney M...what was it? 'I dont even like Boney M'...

Climbed a route set by Rikki last week: 'take a chance on me'. I  was expecting the worst...my mental fortitude held firm...

Thanks for your answer, Ian. Trad is of course an entirely different ball game.
I certainly think a bit of embarrassment is a small price to pay if it means that the negative voice is muted. Whatever gets you / us through, whatever works...

By the way - great photos. A terrific way to spend a Friday...

Thanks, biscuit.

Even for a sport climber like myself, this is a wonderful description - internal dialogue about the matter at hand, assessment. A sound basis for everything else that may follow mentally.
And of course the value of fall training. And that learning never ends in climbing...
When the outcome is 'don't beat yourself up over it' - then the process can only be good. This is a clarity I am aiming for when I get back into it. Exemplary...thanks!