UKC

why are kids such gd climbers?
i was at MCC the other day and these 10 yr olds were awesome. then i found out they were on the british climbing team lol. but still why are young kids such naturally gd climbers?

In reply to james oswald: no fear and they bend far better

In reply to james oswald:

strength / weight?

enthusiasm and natural fitness?

In reply to james oswald:
mmm ye. and in a way im gonna say like of upper body strength which i know doesnt seem to make sense.
but wouldnt it help them develop good technique as they dont have the ability to pull up

In reply to james oswald:

I think part of it is that their engrams for ordinary movement are not so fixed. My small boy has been going on my home wall since he was four, and right from the beginning stuff like flagging and twisting came more or less naturally to him. Adults have to be shown that stuff, and I think it's because we're so fixed in one way of moving. I'd like of course to believe my son's an amazing natural talent, but I don't think that's what it is. I've seen lots of children on my home wall, including an 11-year-old girl who'd never climbed before but did lots of 5b/5c moves in trainers, and most of them move much better than adult beginners.

jcm

In reply to james oswald:

ive heard that it depents how young your talking about; aparently before children have reached puberty there muscles are not developed enough to create large amounts of lactic acid therfore they dont easlily get pumped. and they just run out of energy.

however i may just be talking shit.

:0)

In reply to james oswald: Read one of Tom Patey's essays called 'Apes not Ballerinas' where he states it is a natural ability inherent in everyone derived, through evolution, from the apes. It's just that you lose it after childhood and have to re-learn if you take up climbing in adulthood. In fact read all of Tom Patey's essays in 'One Man's Mountains'. They are essential reading for every climber.

However, on reflection, I don't think it does apply to all kids. I ran courses for years and came across quite a lot of kids with 'two left feet'. Maybe they were less directly descended from our simian ancestors?

In reply to james oswald:

before taking up climbing I used to dive(springboard and highboard). I got my first coaching certs for this and there was definatly a cutoff age where you could get most kids to have a go at absolutely anything. The cuttoff was I think about somewhere between 7-10. Before this point they will happily bellyflop or face splat and get up and do it again and again after a little cry. Past this age they start to anticipate. I think the psychological development and the aprehension that comes with development are a huge factor in both enthusiasm and lack of fear. If you can get a kid comfortable at a sport that is some way intimidating before this point then you set a really good start from which they can start to build technique.

The power to weight thing is also a huge factor as is general activity and flexibility. The sort of kids that get taken to a wall by the folks are often from households where activity is encouraged rather telly and playstation.

In reply to neilinut:

Do small children have a particularly good power to weight ratio? On a crude test, most men can do more pull-ups than most six-year-olds.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

all things being equal yes I think they do but throughout the entire body not in specific areas. The bones are much less dense for one thing. So they might lack coordination and recruitment for a pullup or other isolated movements but for anything gymnastic where they move their whole body around or up they have an advantage. Also due to length of limbs I think the torso has less work to do in dragging them up something. There is less leverage and mass out from pivotal points of the body.

In reply to james oswald:

lack of fear

In reply to james oswald:

This may not be bang on topic, but ...

What are the smallest rockboots available for kids? I want to get my 3yr old moving soon!

In reply to james oswald: 10 yr olds are not on the junior team you have to be 12/13 to enter the qualifiers!

In reply to james oswald: I think that its largely due to a lack of fear, they don't yet have quite so grisly a mental image of the price of failure as you or I do, and once you strap a rope on them the natural inclination of a young child to trust his/her elders unquestionably means that they have a much easier time getting over the mental challenges many who come to climbing later in life really have to battle with (especially when starting out).

Dynamic movement, which is ultimately the most fluid and efficient way to climb, requires a confidence that subsequently comes naturally to young children, where as adults who are stepping out of their comfort zone into perils they are far more aware of find it very hard to break away from carefully considered static movements (3 points of contact with the rock at all times).

In reply to james oswald: Bendy, lack of fear, they bounce. All off the above.


Who cares!? They are the best people to go climbing with. They have no limits. They don’t even know the is a grading system.

In reply to james oswald:

I think its also a lot to do with bodies moving more naturally when you are a child than learning the bad habits and laziness we pick up as adults. For example, a two year old picking something heavy up from the floor will actually do it properly without being shown (bend both knees and keep a straight back) however most adults get shown over and over by H&S and still fail to pick heavy boxes up properly. Same with climbing, it is natural instinct how to move the body before you learn bad habits and laziness.

In reply to neilinut:

Do you mean they have longer limbs relative to their bodies or shorter? They look about the same to me.

jcm

In reply to james oswald:

Can't say I've seen that myself. The ones that come to our wall reflect a cross-section. Some are good and others are hopeless or disinterested.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

shorter - and not just the length but the relative development.

Don't have time to find a proper peer reviewed study but look here for some numbers.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fq8DPhYMCooC&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&am...

In reply to staceyjg:
>it is natural instinct how to move the body before you learn bad habits and laziness.

Johnny Dawes said something very similar. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but IIRC he said we can all climb, but by the time we've grown up we've forgotten how.

In reply to AlisonS:
I'd have to agree with you on this one. The climbing clubs I supervise at are for 5-7 year olds and we get a cross section. Some are very natural (these are the ones I think the OP is getting at), some have it but aren't very confident and others just try to scrable up the wall like the rest of us

I would add though that the comments about natural movement are very relevant in my opinion. Where they perform a 'climbing move' I'm sure they did it naturally and without thinking, rather than us having to tell them to do this or that.

In reply to aw_j:

Regardless of other factors i believe that it comes down to the fact that the majority of children haven't yet learnt bad habits, developed bad posture, suffered from repetive strain and exposure to other damaing influences.

They are basically just more balanced and naturally supple. After walking, climbing is the most natural activity we can undertake. It is also one of few activities which involve what is called paralateral movement. The key thing about this is that it involves our limbs crossing the bodies mid-line, something which greatly improves co-ordination and brain function.

Us lucky adults have had years of training to become this rubbish..!

In reply to Anonymous: My little boy has recently turned two and gets up and down the stairs on all fours still. The other night I was running his bath while the loft ladder was down. I came out of the bathroom to see him laybacking his way up the rungs of the ladder - he was just about to go through the loft hatch with a huge grin on his face! There then followed a little eek, and a lesson in downclimbing... he managed that with some style too. I no longer leave the loft ladder down!

Ben B

In reply to james oswald:

They are not, my little girl when she was under eight was awsome, far better than me (I'm distinctly not awsome), she never climbed, but occaisionally bouldered for fun when not playing with her teddy bear. BUT, lots of the boys in her class were rubbish, they were great footballers and rugby players, but were just so pissed off that Jo burnt them off at climbing.