UKC

What's your plan if you drop your belay plate on a multi-pitch climb or sea cliff? Mine is to use an Italian hitch on an HMS 'biner, but I seem to notice very few people carry one these days. There are lots of nice little locking 'biners on the market which everyone seems to use, but I don't think they'll working for the Italian hitch.

In reply to Rog Wilko: Most screwgates on the market will work just fine for an Italian Hitch.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Belay plate?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Well I'd go for an Italian hitch on a HMS 'biner (of which I carry two). But, if I dropped them as well (one of those days?), I'd revert to a waist belay which served me well on Extremes on Cloggy, Gogarth, etc, etc.

Mick

In reply to Rog Wilko: I have a mini belay device, must be half the size of a normal device, very thin but strong. Bought one after seeing a partner had one. Cant remember the make though.

Wouldn't want to use it a lot but it'd survive an emergency belay/having to arrest a fall.

In reply to muppetfilter: Really?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I'd also use an Italian hitch on a HMS, if i manage to drop this as well i guess i'd use my partner's belay plate to belay the leader and the leader would bring up the second by constantly adjusting a clove hitch, slow, but it'd work.

Or of course you'd just use a body belay...

In reply to Tim Chappell: Sorry, that's my age showing. I remember when they first came out.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

1) Shout down and get my mate to throw his up to me - obvious risks
2) Get mate to put a knot in one rope and clip his plate to it and then pull it up
3) Ask mate to remind me what an Italian hitch is
4) Use an Italian hitch

I've done all four and by far the best is 4).

In reply to Rog Wilko: it'd be mountain rescue for me but if they couldn't find me due to lack of post code then plan b would be the italian. Actually had to do this on two half ropes too. Used one crab for each rope and it worked fine in a faffy kind of way

In reply to Rog Wilko: you can fashion a belay device of sorts using carabiners but its a faff and wastes valuable gear - italian hitch is the simplest option...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

yeah I always forget to carry my italian hitch!

In reply to Rog Wilko: If you climb with hexes you can just use one of those instead. Also means you can continue to belay easily with double ropes, using italian hitch(s) with doubles is an absolute chore!

In reply to henwardian:

Little gems of knowledge like that are why I love UKC. Great tip.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Belaying? - I just pull the rope in hand over hand. Use the right calls and the second will never know...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I havee a small lightweight belay device tacked into the bottom of my chalkbag for such emergencies.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

If you are bringing up a second why not use a Classic Belay?
Otherwise:
Italian Hitch or
Figure of Eight Decender

In reply to Rog Wilko: I find you can fit an Italian hitch onto most screwgates. I'd use that or a body belay depending on the ground, in fact for speed quite often I'd use one of these anyway.


That tip with the hex is a good one mind.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Have a spare.

If you drop that, throw yourself after it.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I had to abseil with an italian hitch and snap gate the other day which was ok.

In reply to henwardian:

How does that work?

In reply to Pylon King: you pass the rope(s) through the void, like an old style tuba belay device and clip the rope witth your krab. make sure the hex isn't too big or too small!

In reply to Rog Wilko: I Thought that happened to me! i was seconding the last pitch of a route at bosigran and got to a ledge where i found the exact same belay plate as my partners just lying there D:
totally forgot about body belay in the moment

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Aye, love the hex idea!
Assuming you haven't dropped all your hexes, which would you use first, the hex or the munter hitch?

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

On mulit pitch i attach my belay device to the spine of it's krab with a rubber o ring twisted round, like you use to retain the rope krab on a long sling. Then you can't lose it!

In reply to Rog Wilko: I like how everybody agrees that it is an incontravertable fact that at some stage in our climbing career, we will drop our only dedicated belay device and have to revert to improvising when in reality you shouldn't be so clumsy!

In reply to Mick Ward:

Rope? You were lucky to have a rope!

Don't drop it in the first instance!!

In reply to PaleMan:

Teehee, you as well.....?

In reply to Rog Wilko: I had EXACTLY this situation on Moonraker - as I was mantling onto the second belay on Moonraker my device (sprung stichtplate)caught under a ledge and the string securing it to my harness snapped and it fell straight into the sea. I had to belay my partner up the last pitch with italian hitches on half ropes. Made for an entertaining end to the day!

In reply to ed_babington:

Once I arrived at the top of the Cioch on Sron na Ciche on Skye with my belay device safely clipped to a gear loop on my rucksack. Unfortunately my rucksack was beside my mate on the terrace below. The Italian Hitch came in handy for that short but exposed traverse.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Having dropped a few in my time, I now always carry a spare. As a preventative strategy it works well, as I've never dropped one since carrying a spare. The spare's only ever been used in anger once, by a friend, when she turned up for a week's climbing in Rjukan without a you-know-what. I told her that she needs to think about carrying a spare ....

Dave

In reply to Rog Wilko: One would have used the Italian should push comes to shove.... Not happened yet but it's only a matter of time.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I'd go for a body belay, and given that there is a good chance I've dropped all my nuts I'd skip the setup for the belay and just dig my heals in.

In reply to Blue031177: Dig heels in? Pah, one remembers using a head jam in a depression in the ice... in the pre-helmet days!!..

In reply to Horse:

Done this!!

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

The only time I've dropped my belay device was when abseiling in to the Verdon Gorge!! Used an Italian Hitch for the rest of the abs and found my device next to the foot of the bottom abseil

ALC

In reply to Dave Williams:
when she turned up for a week's climbing in Rjukan without a you-know-what. I told her that she needs to think about carrying a spare ....

Yes, it's always as well to be prepared

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Amaze me people actually bother to rack up a spare plate. Muppetfilter is right, you don't need an HMS to run an IH, especially with modern skinny ropes.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Not half as serious as dropping the rope at the top of a sport climb....

In reply to Trangia: ouch..!!

In reply to Trangia:


My mate did that from a top of an ice climb back in Feb. How I laughed.

I've dropped my belay plate once in 20 years of climbing - down the North Buttress of the Buchaille about 15 years ago. Friction hitches worked well enough, but not well enough to encourage me to drop again.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Unfortunately, shit happens!

In reply to aph257:

See above.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Thread juxto, this is just under this thread;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=462878

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Excellent thread Roger.....very interesting it would be the Italian Hitch for me....but will have to look at the Hex option now aswell

In reply to Rog Wilko: For many years everyone (except maybe eccentric continentals) used a waist belay. My recollection is that belay plates only came into general use in the UK during the early 1980s. So dropping a plate really isn't such a big problem.

In reply to Gav Parker:

I wounder if the rope moving next to the sling of the hex will damage it much?

In reply to Rob Davies: Waist belays? Pah! At Harrison's you would see the belayer just hold the rope in one hand, while rolling up with t'other hand..

In reply to Rob Davies:


I've used a waist belay plenty myself but I wouldn't be happy belaying a leader with one. I've experienced mild rope burns, and they were bad.
I'd say that most climbers of my acquaintance were using Sticht plates by 1972 or so.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

As has been said, dedicated belay devices only came into general use during the late 70's early 80's.

Simply use a waist belay. NB. belay device is your waist!! It works quiet well unless you like climbing naked.

Alternatively a Blackwall hitch on a crab used correctly gives instant arresting capabilities but is not dynamic.

So does twisting a rope around a a crab a couple of times. But you've got to place it carefully or it can open the crab.

In reply to henwardian:



you, sir, are a legend. this is inspired stuff, I thought I knew all the tricks but I didn't know this one. thanks for posting obi wan

In reply to JoshOvki: (I wounder if the rope moving next to the sling of the hex will damage it much?)


Personally I wonder if the rope running through your hands will damage your leader/second in the event of a fall :P

If I were careless enough to drop my belay plate, then I don't think I'd worry too much about having to use a hex as a substitute if it got us down from the crag safely. But I'd also be careful of which way round the hex was so as to minimise the chances of the sling being in the way.

In reply to Rog Wilko: You already have a spare belay device - your partner's. Whoever is belaying the leader can use that, and the leader then brings up the second on a waist belay, Italian hitch or whatever else they can improvise.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I came to climbing through Colorado plateau canyoneering, where there are many floating disconnects (abseil into water, tread water while disconnecting, assuming you haven't set the length so you can just abseil off the end). In such circumstances, with an ATC type device, one quickly learns to keep the wire handle inside the carabiner at all times!

In reply to sarahlizzy:

Que?

In reply to jonny2vests:

When pulling the rope out, manoeuvre the belay device round so that the wire is below the gate of the carabiner before opening it. That way the rope can be removed from the belay device without the belay device having to ever leave the carabiner it's attached to.

In reply to henwardian:
What a brilliant idea...only ever forgotten my belay device once and was able to use an italian hitch but just tried the hex idea and it's great...I nearly always have at least one hex on my harness even once my belay is constructed

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Had to do this in winter once. My hands were so cold I dropped my reverso. Then spent about 15minutes trying to get the Italian to work- my hands just wouldn't function!!! It will always be my back up plan though!

In reply to Rog Wilko: Ha, I forgot how to tie an Italian hitch. Thanks for the reminder

In reply to MelH: Now that raises another question - will an Italian hitch work on a frozen rope?

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Italien hitch, waist belay, alpine clutch, hex/belay, shoulder belay.

Then if all else fails you could go with what I've heard as a russian belay... just pulling in the rope hand over hand :P

In reply to Rog Wilko:


They work well enough.
jk

In reply to Rog Wilko:

A single chain link can also be pressed into service at a push, likewise forged rap-rings and as someone else has already mentioned, mid-size hexes. A chain link is the sort of 20pence thing you can just drop in your chalk bag and forget about (usually until long after the epic where you actually needed it!).

I never cease to be amazed by the number of people that plan for eventualities like dropping a belay plate, it's one of those times where you just make do.

I've dropped pretty much everything but my belay plate. Only time I've missed it (I occasionally forget it) was getting off Lost Arrow Spire in the rapidly descending evening gloom. Memorable for sure but not enough to make me even consider carrying a spare.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

You did the LAS without a belay plate? The tip or the whole thing?

In reply to jkarran:
Sounds interestingly epic - how was the plate part of the fun?

In reply to jonny2vests:

Just the sort of Ab/Tyrolean thing to get down off the tip, my partner picked up my plate by accident and helpfully took it back to the valley rim for me

jk

In reply to jkarran:
So did you go from rim to tip - down to notch and back up to rim?

In reply to robw007:

Ay, we walked to the rim, abbed into the notch, climbed the two pitches to the top trailing the ab rope, got scared, took photos, misplaced my belay plate, abbed part way down the spire then pulled across to the rim-wall and jumared out. I believe that's the normal way the tip is done, it saves jumaring ~100m of bouncy thin ab rope. Easy (aid) climbing but a fun day out.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

We tensioned it (which is what I'd always thought was the norm) and sent the first across (me!) belayed with the rest of the ab rope from the tip. Then we re-rigged it for the 2nd (my wife) so she came across on a doubled, retrievable tyrolean. It was the safest way I could think of.

In reply to Howard J:

What if you've dropped it at the top of your pitch and they are at the bottom??

In reply to staceyjg:

Then you pass it down on the rope (!)

In reply to Rog Wilko:

haha- well it did work (of a fashion) but I suspect my hands were more frozen than the rope... ;-/

In reply to Rog Wilko:
Alpine Clutch on anchors above you. Instant guide mode belay! :-D