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I recently wandered up a fairly tricky summit in the Dinorwig Quarries (the ridge between Twll Mawr and Mordor just above the Khyber Pass - it would be proper climbing to get to the top except for a conveniently dangling chain) and it started me wondering. If you take a fairly relaxed definition of what constitutes a summit (below Munro requirements) but exclude sea stacks, what is the hardest English or Welsh summit?
The Lakes offers Napes Needle, and the Needle on Black Crag (Pike o Blisco) if these are considered big or separate enough and Pillar Rock (easier but certainly big enough for what I have in mind) as contenders. The Peaks (couldn't resist that) offer Rivelin Pinnacle (which outdoes the others I can think of for difficulty.
In Wales, Dinorwig offers, in addition to the ridge I mentioned above, the Peppermint and Trango Towers (both probably no more than a scramble) and not far away is the Pillar of Elidir which doesn't rise very far above the neck but feels like proper climbing.
Do you have any other suggestions for worthy inland contenders both in size and difficulty (ideally proper rock climbing to reach the summit and bigger than just a needle)?
The Lakes offers Napes Needle, and the Needle on Black Crag (Pike o Blisco) if these are considered big or separate enough and Pillar Rock (easier but certainly big enough for what I have in mind) as contenders. The Peaks (couldn't resist that) offer Rivelin Pinnacle (which outdoes the others I can think of for difficulty.
In Wales, Dinorwig offers, in addition to the ridge I mentioned above, the Peppermint and Trango Towers (both probably no more than a scramble) and not far away is the Pillar of Elidir which doesn't rise very far above the neck but feels like proper climbing.
Do you have any other suggestions for worthy inland contenders both in size and difficulty (ideally proper rock climbing to reach the summit and bigger than just a needle)?
In reply to harold walmsley:
Can't think of any substantial summits that require much effort, though from a punter's point of view, Crib Goch must be in with a shout. Helm Crag is a bit more than a walk, but only the last few feet.
Depends on your definition of "bigger than just a needle". Ilam rock is hardly a Munro, but there's no easy way up it.
Can't think of any substantial summits that require much effort, though from a punter's point of view, Crib Goch must be in with a shout. Helm Crag is a bit more than a walk, but only the last few feet.
Depends on your definition of "bigger than just a needle". Ilam rock is hardly a Munro, but there's no easy way up it.
In reply to tmawer:
I was about to suggest the same - well, the Old Man of Mow, anyhow (Mow Cop itself is just a walk). The Old Man is in the subMarilyns and Humps lists and there haven't been many logged ascents on the hillbagging site:
http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?rf=18980
It was years before Rob Woodall managed it and he's done almost everything. There are access issues too - I think Rob and his pal climbed it at night or at least at dusk.
As a boy I seem to recall visiting some hard-looking slab-like pinnacle up Alport Heights way.
> Mow Cop, if it still exists!?
I was about to suggest the same - well, the Old Man of Mow, anyhow (Mow Cop itself is just a walk). The Old Man is in the subMarilyns and Humps lists and there haven't been many logged ascents on the hillbagging site:
http://www.hill-bagging.co.uk/mountaindetails.php?rf=18980
It was years before Rob Woodall managed it and he's done almost everything. There are access issues too - I think Rob and his pal climbed it at night or at least at dusk.
As a boy I seem to recall visiting some hard-looking slab-like pinnacle up Alport Heights way.
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In reply to Dave Hewitt:
Yes, couldn't remember the real name! I did it in 1983 and I suspect I was not supposed to climb it even then.
Yes, couldn't remember the real name! I did it in 1983 and I suspect I was not supposed to climb it even then.
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
>As a boy I seem to recall visiting some hard-looking slab-like pinnacle up Alport Heights way.
Yes, the Alport Stone, just below the top of Alport Heights. Quite hard IIRC
Then there's Alport Towers in the Peak, a rather nasty tottering mass, a real 'summit' but in a valley
>As a boy I seem to recall visiting some hard-looking slab-like pinnacle up Alport Heights way.
Yes, the Alport Stone, just below the top of Alport Heights. Quite hard IIRC
Then there's Alport Towers in the Peak, a rather nasty tottering mass, a real 'summit' but in a valley
In reply to harold walmsley:
The easiest line up Ilam Rock seems to be HS (with everything else being in the E-grades) but the Rivelin Needle is HVS at its easiest I think, so that trumps (if I can use that word thse days) Ilam Rock.
The easiest line up Ilam Rock seems to be HS (with everything else being in the E-grades) but the Rivelin Needle is HVS at its easiest I think, so that trumps (if I can use that word thse days) Ilam Rock.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Ta, that's the one. Is 8m high, quite big as these kind of things go. There's a VS line up the shoulder, though, so that also loses to Rivelin. Are there any hard and precarious mini-pinnacles in any of the Lakeland corries, along the lines of what you get on Bidean/SCnL? Grasmoor might have some chossy things that are small but hard. There are some messy off-path bits of Fairfield, too. Sadly the Matterhorn Rock on Grey Friar isn't high enough to be hard!
> Yes, the Alport Stone, just below the top of Alport Heights. Quite hard IIRC
Ta, that's the one. Is 8m high, quite big as these kind of things go. There's a VS line up the shoulder, though, so that also loses to Rivelin. Are there any hard and precarious mini-pinnacles in any of the Lakeland corries, along the lines of what you get on Bidean/SCnL? Grasmoor might have some chossy things that are small but hard. There are some messy off-path bits of Fairfield, too. Sadly the Matterhorn Rock on Grey Friar isn't high enough to be hard!
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
I'm a bit surprised no-one's mentioned Scafell Pinnacle, which is quite awesome even by the short 'easy' scramble up the back.
I'm a bit surprised no-one's mentioned Scafell Pinnacle, which is quite awesome even by the short 'easy' scramble up the back.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Don't forget the Sea Stacks!
Old Man of Stoer is a mini expedition offering a scenic walk in, a thought provoking down scramble, a swim for one member of the party, a tyorolean traverse, multi pitch trad climbing of varying difficulty from HVS upwards (that's if you do the 5a traverse to start the Ordinary Route), an abseil usually done in two bites, the Tyrolean back again, the steep scramble back up and a scenic walk out.
How many British peaks or mini peaks offer such variety?
Don't forget the Sea Stacks!
Old Man of Stoer is a mini expedition offering a scenic walk in, a thought provoking down scramble, a swim for one member of the party, a tyorolean traverse, multi pitch trad climbing of varying difficulty from HVS upwards (that's if you do the 5a traverse to start the Ordinary Route), an abseil usually done in two bites, the Tyrolean back again, the steep scramble back up and a scenic walk out.
How many British peaks or mini peaks offer such variety?
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Or Pillar Rock?
Or the Cioch - not really a summit, but a defined objective?
Or Pillar Rock?
Or the Cioch - not really a summit, but a defined objective?
Post edited at 09:50
In reply to harold walmsley:
Brimham must have some pinnacles that are harder than hvs to get up but I don't have a recent guide to check!
Brimham must have some pinnacles that are harder than hvs to get up but I don't have a recent guide to check!
In reply to Trangia:
Harold's asking about English and Welsh summits though, not Scotland. Could be some hard E+W mini stacks, mind you - eg the IoW Needles.
> Don't forget the Sea Stacks! Old Man of Stoer is a mini expedition
Harold's asking about English and Welsh summits though, not Scotland. Could be some hard E+W mini stacks, mind you - eg the IoW Needles.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Not super hard, but a definite independent "mini summit" is the Long Stone at Symonds Yat easiest way up Vertigo (S 4a) but Whitt (VS 4c) is an altogether more memorable way to the top.
Not super hard, but a definite independent "mini summit" is the Long Stone at Symonds Yat easiest way up Vertigo (S 4a) but Whitt (VS 4c) is an altogether more memorable way to the top.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Right enough - so does that make Rivelin, the Alport Stone and the Mow Man (which also has a Spiral Route at VS) joint-leaders at present?
> Isn't the Spiral Route on Rivelin Needle meant to be VS?
Right enough - so does that make Rivelin, the Alport Stone and the Mow Man (which also has a Spiral Route at VS) joint-leaders at present?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
What about some of the mini summits on chalk ridges. Also some of the Dovedale pinnacles must be at least VS .. the old easy ways are often loose lethal VS 4a stuff (unlike Mow which is solid if it doesn't fall over).
What about some of the mini summits on chalk ridges. Also some of the Dovedale pinnacles must be at least VS .. the old easy ways are often loose lethal VS 4a stuff (unlike Mow which is solid if it doesn't fall over).
In reply to Trangia:
Me too - I was forgetting the inland requirement when suggesting the Needles (otherwise Press Gang Pinnacle, HVS at Purbeck, would be in the mix). Offwidth's right that some of the Dovedale pinnacles could be contenders, although are any of them harder than Ilam Rock?
> Oh dear! Didn't read the question! Fail!!
Me too - I was forgetting the inland requirement when suggesting the Needles (otherwise Press Gang Pinnacle, HVS at Purbeck, would be in the mix). Offwidth's right that some of the Dovedale pinnacles could be contenders, although are any of them harder than Ilam Rock?
1
In reply to harold walmsley:
For completeness a couple more inland pinnacles that come to mind are Nicodemus Knob on Portland, mostly Sport routes in the low 6s to ascend, but there is a Mod scramble round the back.
Also the French Pinnacle at Cheddar, several straightforward routes on this, Mariette Route (VD) probably the pick of them.
For completeness a couple more inland pinnacles that come to mind are Nicodemus Knob on Portland, mostly Sport routes in the low 6s to ascend, but there is a Mod scramble round the back.
Also the French Pinnacle at Cheddar, several straightforward routes on this, Mariette Route (VD) probably the pick of them.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Some of the Tors on Dartmoor??
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=288291
Some of the Tors on Dartmoor??
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=288291
Post edited at 12:44
In reply to harold walmsley:
What about this one?
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154651
What about this one?
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=154651
Post edited at 14:47
In reply to JimR:
> Does French Pinnacle exist or has it fallen (or been pushed) down yet?
It was very much there when I soloed a few routes on it back in 2014, didn't appear to be on the brink of demise either. There are logged ascents as recently as last Summer, so I'd be pretty confident in its continued existence!In reply to harold walmsley:
There must be thousands!
Cheeswring
Terriers Tooth
South Face direct summit at Chair Ladder
Bowermans Nose
Top Hat at Hound Tor
Upstream Pinnacle at Seven Sisters
Devils Chimney at Leckhampton
One at Llangattaock but can't remember the name
The Constable on Lundy
A whole tick list of Peak summits in 'On Peak Rock'
Cwfry Table
Helm crag summit
Carlin Maggie in th eLomond Hills
All the famous ones on Skye...
A lot of Mods and Diffs in there mind, so not exactly hardest.
There must be thousands!
Cheeswring
Terriers Tooth
South Face direct summit at Chair Ladder
Bowermans Nose
Top Hat at Hound Tor
Upstream Pinnacle at Seven Sisters
Devils Chimney at Leckhampton
One at Llangattaock but can't remember the name
The Constable on Lundy
A whole tick list of Peak summits in 'On Peak Rock'
Cwfry Table
Helm crag summit
Carlin Maggie in th eLomond Hills
All the famous ones on Skye...
A lot of Mods and Diffs in there mind, so not exactly hardest.
Post edited at 15:33
In reply to alan moore:
S Face Direct?? How very odd. I know it finishes on top of a small pinnacle, but isn't it quite a short, straightforward downclimb down the back ... almost a walk-off?
S Face Direct?? How very odd. I know it finishes on top of a small pinnacle, but isn't it quite a short, straightforward downclimb down the back ... almost a walk-off?
In reply to harold walmsley:
The thread title is "Hardest English and Welsh mini summits"
and the OP clearly asks for "worthy inland contenders both in size and difficulty (ideally proper rock climbing to reach the summit and bigger than just a needle)?"
So in the usual UKC fashion we have sea cliffs, sea stacks and Scottish suggestions aplenty!
The thread title is "Hardest English and Welsh mini summits"
and the OP clearly asks for "worthy inland contenders both in size and difficulty (ideally proper rock climbing to reach the summit and bigger than just a needle)?"
So in the usual UKC fashion we have sea cliffs, sea stacks and Scottish suggestions aplenty!
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In reply to The Ivanator:
I know, I'm sorry. Sometimes the urge to make a list is just overpowering!
I know, I'm sorry. Sometimes the urge to make a list is just overpowering!
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I remember an awkward down climb; probably because I wasn't expecting one.
I remember an awkward down climb; probably because I wasn't expecting one.
Post edited at 21:43
In reply to The Ivanator:
I think the sad truth is that we have not really found a single one in the sense defined by the OP – i.e. if we don't allow smallish needles. Frankly, I think we're scraping the barrel if we include pinnacles in ex-quarries. i.e man-made bits of rock left standing. If we allow scrambling (i.e something beyond the bounds of walker with no head for heights, or scambling ability) then I think Pillar Rock wins hands down.
I think the sad truth is that we have not really found a single one in the sense defined by the OP – i.e. if we don't allow smallish needles. Frankly, I think we're scraping the barrel if we include pinnacles in ex-quarries. i.e man-made bits of rock left standing. If we allow scrambling (i.e something beyond the bounds of walker with no head for heights, or scambling ability) then I think Pillar Rock wins hands down.
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In reply to alan moore:
Yes, but that means you can get to the top of that small pinnacle from the back. It's really not v memorable as a pinnacle per se.
> I remember an awkward down climb; probably because I wasn't expecting one.
Yes, but that means you can get to the top of that small pinnacle from the back. It's really not v memorable as a pinnacle per se.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Some great fells around that area, one of the best areas for hill walking I find
Some great fells around that area, one of the best areas for hill walking I find
In reply to alan moore:
> ..A lot of Mods and Diffs in there mind, so not exactly hardest.
Well what I asked for was contenders to be considered the hardest. From exam-ples quoted so far that would mean at least VS, preferably more.In reply to davidbeynon:
Only Mod by the easiest route though.
From what has been suggested so far it seems to boil down to the hardest being about Mod if you requite sat a minimum of 12 to 15 m on the short side. Of these Pillar must be the grandest.
The hardest goes up to VS (so far) if you include moderately large needles and quarry towers. Rivelin seems the hardest of these to be mentioned so far although maybe one of the Dovedale pinnacles could be harder?
It is harder still if you include relatively small gritstone blocks. Of these, The Egg at Bridestones would be much harder than any mentioned so far. Banned for climbing but still a tiny summit. Also, still at Bridies, what is the easiest way to the top of the block with SH Arete?
> vixen tor.
Only Mod by the easiest route though.
From what has been suggested so far it seems to boil down to the hardest being about Mod if you requite sat a minimum of 12 to 15 m on the short side. Of these Pillar must be the grandest.
The hardest goes up to VS (so far) if you include moderately large needles and quarry towers. Rivelin seems the hardest of these to be mentioned so far although maybe one of the Dovedale pinnacles could be harder?
It is harder still if you include relatively small gritstone blocks. Of these, The Egg at Bridestones would be much harder than any mentioned so far. Banned for climbing but still a tiny summit. Also, still at Bridies, what is the easiest way to the top of the block with SH Arete?
Post edited at 00:54
In reply to harold walmsley:
The main difficulty involved in getting to the top of Vixen Tor isn't technical unfortunately.
The main difficulty involved in getting to the top of Vixen Tor isn't technical unfortunately.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
CLach Glas is harder than Pillar Rock isn't it? Old West is mostly ledges and steep grass.
The hardest goes up to VS (so far). Rivelin seems the hardest of these to be mentioned so far
Udolpho is E1 and Old Man of Storr might be E4 depending on who you ask....
> Of these Pillar must be the grandest.
CLach Glas is harder than Pillar Rock isn't it? Old West is mostly ledges and steep grass.
The hardest goes up to VS (so far). Rivelin seems the hardest of these to be mentioned so far
Udolpho is E1 and Old Man of Storr might be E4 depending on who you ask....
In reply to alan moore:
Clach Glas and the Storr aren't in Wales or England, though...
> CLach Glas is harder than Pillar Rock isn't it? Old West is mostly ledges and steep grass. The hardest goes up to VS (so far). Rivelin seems the hardest of these to be mentioned so far Udolpho is E1 and Old Man of Storr might be E4 depending on who you ask....
Clach Glas and the Storr aren't in Wales or England, though...
In reply to harold walmsley:
OK, this probably doesn't qualify on size and quarried grounds, but maybe of interest in terms of danger and technical difficulty:
https://ukc2.com/i/123903.jpg The feature in the background of this photo at St. Aldhelm's Head in the cliff top quarry is known as Thors Hammer (V2) and is possibly the scariest V2 in the land, sitting as it does on the edge of a large crumbling cliff, no stack of mats is going to save you if you come off the wrong side of this one. I've stood alongside, contemplated, and wisely thought better of an ascent.
OK, this probably doesn't qualify on size and quarried grounds, but maybe of interest in terms of danger and technical difficulty:
https://ukc2.com/i/123903.jpg The feature in the background of this photo at St. Aldhelm's Head in the cliff top quarry is known as Thors Hammer (V2) and is possibly the scariest V2 in the land, sitting as it does on the edge of a large crumbling cliff, no stack of mats is going to save you if you come off the wrong side of this one. I've stood alongside, contemplated, and wisely thought better of an ascent.
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Talking of small gritstone blocks, we should perhaps remember the rather big ones at High Rocks: Hut Boulder (4b by easiest route but would be 5a in mountains - amounts to a VS solo), and the huge Isolated Boulder, again quite tricky (4a Severe) by the easiest route (very long and awkward). I remember finding soloing Simian Progress, 5a (amounts to HVS solo) almost easier.
> ... It is harder still if you include relatively small gritstone blocks. Of these, The Egg at Bridestones would be much harder than any mentioned so far. Banned for climbing but still a tiny summit. Also, still at Bridies, what is the easiest way to the top of the block with SH Arete?
Talking of small gritstone blocks, we should perhaps remember the rather big ones at High Rocks: Hut Boulder (4b by easiest route but would be 5a in mountains - amounts to a VS solo), and the huge Isolated Boulder, again quite tricky (4a Severe) by the easiest route (very long and awkward). I remember finding soloing Simian Progress, 5a (amounts to HVS solo) almost easier.
In reply to harold walmsley:
Pillar rock is officially a "Nuttall", a 2000 foot hill in England or Wales with a minimum height separation of 50 feet. It is the only one on the list (of about 440) which requires any rock climbing to reach its summit.
> Of these Pillar must be the grandest. >
Pillar rock is officially a "Nuttall", a 2000 foot hill in England or Wales with a minimum height separation of 50 feet. It is the only one on the list (of about 440) which requires any rock climbing to reach its summit.
In reply to Dave Hewitt:
I don't know Udolpho so can't comment. No description in UKC. Crag description doesn't mention a pinnacle and it sounds like a sea cliff. I guess if we consider sea cliff features that are too far from the sea to be stacks, Shag Rock would be a contender?
I don't know Udolpho so can't comment. No description in UKC. Crag description doesn't mention a pinnacle and it sounds like a sea cliff. I guess if we consider sea cliff features that are too far from the sea to be stacks, Shag Rock would be a contender?
In reply to The Ivanator:
Thors hammer looks a strong contender. Its hard to ssize it from the picture but it sounds fierce.
Thors hammer looks a strong contender. Its hard to ssize it from the picture but it sounds fierce.
In reply to harold walmsley:
Gwynant Needle.
VDiff on the inside but I think E1 on the longer outer arete. Seldom visited I think
Gwynant Needle.
VDiff on the inside but I think E1 on the longer outer arete. Seldom visited I think
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In reply to harold walmsley:
Udolpho is in the UKC database under Treborwith Strand. There is a photo there as well. Hundreds of feet above the shoreline. 80ft high with a seesaw abseil descent, if I remember correctly from the Iain Peters guide.
Udolpho is in the UKC database under Treborwith Strand. There is a photo there as well. Hundreds of feet above the shoreline. 80ft high with a seesaw abseil descent, if I remember correctly from the Iain Peters guide.
Post edited at 07:02
In reply to harold walmsley:
Not sure if this is what your thinking of, but its a bit tricky to get on top of The Sphinx on the The Napes.
Not sure if this is what your thinking of, but its a bit tricky to get on top of The Sphinx on the The Napes.
In reply to harold walmsley:
The cork stone
http://www.stone-circles.org.uk/stone/stantonmoor.htm
A ladder up on one side it's true, but trickier otherwise.
The cork stone
http://www.stone-circles.org.uk/stone/stantonmoor.htm
A ladder up on one side it's true, but trickier otherwise.
Post edited at 08:28
In reply to alan moore:
Udolpho (E1 5a) was still standind when I went there a year ago. It's in a slate quarry about 200m from the shore. Udolpho (E1 5a)#photos
Udolpho (E1 5a) was still standind when I went there a year ago. It's in a slate quarry about 200m from the shore. Udolpho (E1 5a)#photos
In reply to Siward:
Had forgotten about that - good call. I was there years ago (but not up it - the footholds looked too scary). Alan M's suggestion of Udolpho looks like a strong contender overall. In terms of things-in-lists, it can't be far off the dreaded Tump status, ie 30m drop all round, although if it is just 80ft then that's not quite enough.
> The cork stone
Had forgotten about that - good call. I was there years ago (but not up it - the footholds looked too scary). Alan M's suggestion of Udolpho looks like a strong contender overall. In terms of things-in-lists, it can't be far off the dreaded Tump status, ie 30m drop all round, although if it is just 80ft then that's not quite enough.
In reply to Siward:
Have you been up it Simon? Seemingly the metal staples alongside the carved footholds are 19th-century. It was only 2011 when I was there - more recent than I'd have guessed. I can remember thinking I'd be able to climb up the staples but wouldn't fancy coming back down without some kind of protection as it overhangs slightly at the bottom. Another list/category would be to rank in terms of hardest/easiest the various boulders etc that have man-made ways up them, eg the Bowder Stone with its ladder. The Cork Stone might be at the harder end of that list.
> The cork stone
Have you been up it Simon? Seemingly the metal staples alongside the carved footholds are 19th-century. It was only 2011 when I was there - more recent than I'd have guessed. I can remember thinking I'd be able to climb up the staples but wouldn't fancy coming back down without some kind of protection as it overhangs slightly at the bottom. Another list/category would be to rank in terms of hardest/easiest the various boulders etc that have man-made ways up them, eg the Bowder Stone with its ladder. The Cork Stone might be at the harder end of that list.
Post edited at 09:48
In reply to harold walmsley:
Aren't we looking for something that's both very big on a human scale, and very long-lasting on a human time-scale? (i.e. something that's hundreds of feet high and has been the same for thousands of years?) In which case, I think we have to come back to Pillar Rock.
Aren't we looking for something that's both very big on a human scale, and very long-lasting on a human time-scale? (i.e. something that's hundreds of feet high and has been the same for thousands of years?) In which case, I think we have to come back to Pillar Rock.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
<Aren't we looking for something that's both very big on a human scale, and very long-lasting on a human time-scale?>
Originally I deliberately left the criteria vague to see what came up. Later I came up with three possible, but still ill-defined, categories. Pillar clearly wins the relatively easy but big and permanent category. I think Udolpho is ahead in the medium sized one (although it reportedly exceeds Pillar in the height of the shortest side and so arguably may be in the big category, I'm not in a position to comment on its permanence). If Udolpho is considered big then maybe Rivelin or one of the Dovedale pinnacles may still be the hardest in the medium category. There are so many small but difficult blocks that this category is very hard to finalise (e.g. Brimham has been mentioned but without singling out any particular block. SE sandstone has been mentioned but the odd grades make comparison difficult and I am sure there must be a lot in the SW).
I should note that I only consider the difficulty of the easiest possible route so it if has a scramble down the back it won't count. Several suggestions fail this criterion.
<Aren't we looking for something that's both very big on a human scale, and very long-lasting on a human time-scale?>
Originally I deliberately left the criteria vague to see what came up. Later I came up with three possible, but still ill-defined, categories. Pillar clearly wins the relatively easy but big and permanent category. I think Udolpho is ahead in the medium sized one (although it reportedly exceeds Pillar in the height of the shortest side and so arguably may be in the big category, I'm not in a position to comment on its permanence). If Udolpho is considered big then maybe Rivelin or one of the Dovedale pinnacles may still be the hardest in the medium category. There are so many small but difficult blocks that this category is very hard to finalise (e.g. Brimham has been mentioned but without singling out any particular block. SE sandstone has been mentioned but the odd grades make comparison difficult and I am sure there must be a lot in the SW).
I should note that I only consider the difficulty of the easiest possible route so it if has a scramble down the back it won't count. Several suggestions fail this criterion.
In reply to harold walmsley:
In the 'medium' category I would always favour Pickering Tor over the other suggestions, simply because it's not quarried i.e a natural feature. Udolpho looks like it could fall down any minute
In the 'medium' category I would always favour Pickering Tor over the other suggestions, simply because it's not quarried i.e a natural feature. Udolpho looks like it could fall down any minute
In reply to tmawer:
I suspect you're right, but I don't either!
> Brimham must have some pinnacles that are harder than hvs to get up but I don't have a recent guide to check!
I suspect you're right, but I don't either!
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In reply to harold walmsley:
I wandered up the Oaks Pinnacle once and then realised I'd done the easiest way up. Only V Diff, but heck I was young and frightened Oaks Pinnacle#overview
I wandered up the Oaks Pinnacle once and then realised I'd done the easiest way up. Only V Diff, but heck I was young and frightened Oaks Pinnacle#overview
In reply to harold walmsley:
" Brimham has been mentioned but without singling out any particular block. "
The block I am thinking of is by Lovers Leap/Birch Tree wall, on the left as you face the crag...I am not at all sure it has been climbed!?
" Brimham has been mentioned but without singling out any particular block. "
The block I am thinking of is by Lovers Leap/Birch Tree wall, on the left as you face the crag...I am not at all sure it has been climbed!?
In reply to harold walmsley:
Harter Fell? Hard for walkers and an actual summit.
then there's that pinacle in High Cup Nick, Northern Pennines - Cobbler's Chair or something? If it's still standing. Bagsy not climb it.
Harter Fell? Hard for walkers and an actual summit.
then there's that pinacle in High Cup Nick, Northern Pennines - Cobbler's Chair or something? If it's still standing. Bagsy not climb it.
In reply to harold walmsley:
There's always Peakstone Rock, in the lower Churnet Valley. Certainly one of the most impressive summits in Staffordshire. After the Old Man of Mow and Ilam Rock, that is.
There's always Peakstone Rock, in the lower Churnet Valley. Certainly one of the most impressive summits in Staffordshire. After the Old Man of Mow and Ilam Rock, that is.
In reply to harold walmsley:
It's already been mentioned, but seems to have been forgotten, https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=222862 the Cheesewring, the easiest route up this is Northside Route E1 5c 6m. (Not, as far as I can see in the UKC database.)
It's already been mentioned, but seems to have been forgotten, https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=222862 the Cheesewring, the easiest route up this is Northside Route E1 5c 6m. (Not, as far as I can see in the UKC database.)
In reply to Mark Kemball:
I'm sure Bill Birkett and (then) Baby Dave thought 6a in his South of England Climbs.
> the Cheesewring, the easiest route up this is Northside Route E1 5c 6m.
I'm sure Bill Birkett and (then) Baby Dave thought 6a in his South of England Climbs.
In reply to tmawer:
That would definitely make it a contender in the blocks category
> "...I am not at all sure it has been climbed!?
That would definitely make it a contender in the blocks category
In reply to alan moore:
There's 2 other climbs - Northeasterly Route (V4 6a) and Nomadic Jam Session (E2 5c) - all info from Barney Carver's latest edition of the Cheesewring and South East Cornwall guide. (2012)
There's 2 other climbs - Northeasterly Route (V4 6a) and Nomadic Jam Session (E2 5c) - all info from Barney Carver's latest edition of the Cheesewring and South East Cornwall guide. (2012)
In reply to harold walmsley:
A query about the "no sea stacks" thing. Is that "no sea tacks no way no how!", or is more of a logistical objection and it is ok if it is something you can walk to at low tide?
If the criterion is "things you can walk to" then it opens it up a bit more.
Also: Nobody has dared to say "stonehenge" yet
A query about the "no sea stacks" thing. Is that "no sea tacks no way no how!", or is more of a logistical objection and it is ok if it is something you can walk to at low tide?
If the criterion is "things you can walk to" then it opens it up a bit more.
Also: Nobody has dared to say "stonehenge" yet
Post edited at 21:26
In reply to harold walmsley:
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Eagle Stone at Baslow. The easiest route is given 4b but always seemed more like 4c to me, which would make it comparable to Spiral Route on Rivelin and harder than Pickering Tor.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Eagle Stone at Baslow. The easiest route is given 4b but always seemed more like 4c to me, which would make it comparable to Spiral Route on Rivelin and harder than Pickering Tor.
In reply to davidbeynon:
The no sea stacks was because there are so many and I wanted to know about inland summits. I would still like to exclude all of them so as not to overwhelm the inland stuff. Could be another thread.
The no sea stacks was because there are so many and I wanted to know about inland summits. I would still like to exclude all of them so as not to overwhelm the inland stuff. Could be another thread.
In reply to harold walmsley:
What grade is the jump between Adam & Eve?
I did it about 35 years ago and thought I'd soloed the North Face of the Eiger!
What grade is the jump between Adam & Eve?
I did it about 35 years ago and thought I'd soloed the North Face of the Eiger!
2
1
In reply to alan moore:
Ah, Devil's Chimney... I used to run up and down that as a kid. Pretty sure I was at primary school when I first did it. As teenagers, once the council had done all that hideous reinforcement work, a group of us concocted a plan to paint it pink with a purple head. Like all great plans we lost interest after a while...
Ah, Devil's Chimney... I used to run up and down that as a kid. Pretty sure I was at primary school when I first did it. As teenagers, once the council had done all that hideous reinforcement work, a group of us concocted a plan to paint it pink with a purple head. Like all great plans we lost interest after a while...
In reply to Mark Kemball:
Those things on the Cheesewring are awkward affairs too. No doubt the Trebarwith Strand stuff is considerably harder in real, not just paper terms, but surely disqualified in terms of it being quarried.
Those things on the Cheesewring are awkward affairs too. No doubt the Trebarwith Strand stuff is considerably harder in real, not just paper terms, but surely disqualified in terms of it being quarried.
In reply to Mark Kemball:
On second thoughts, I think I have the leader in all this so far with Will Luke's Hat, there bring four existing routes at E2, 2x E3 and an E6. Totally natural isolated pillar of rock in Luxulyan Woods.
Possibly disqualified as you can make a fairly scary jump onto the summit.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=174390
PS, the VSs don't count as they're on the 'land' not the pillar.
On second thoughts, I think I have the leader in all this so far with Will Luke's Hat, there bring four existing routes at E2, 2x E3 and an E6. Totally natural isolated pillar of rock in Luxulyan Woods.
Possibly disqualified as you can make a fairly scary jump onto the summit.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=174390
PS, the VSs don't count as they're on the 'land' not the pillar.
1
In reply to steveriley:
Oaks Pinnacle is a lovely isolated bit of rock. First time we did it, we solo climbed the VS; which is a smashing climb, then sat on the top contemplating the descent, the V Diff looks most unlikely, but eventually had to commit to it as it was getting dark.
Another contender, Oldridge Pinnacle in the Upper Churnet.
John Gresty
Oaks Pinnacle is a lovely isolated bit of rock. First time we did it, we solo climbed the VS; which is a smashing climb, then sat on the top contemplating the descent, the V Diff looks most unlikely, but eventually had to commit to it as it was getting dark.
Another contender, Oldridge Pinnacle in the Upper Churnet.
John Gresty
1
In reply to Tom Last:
No, if you check Harold's original post, he started the whole thing by talking about something in the Dinorwig slate quarries.
> .... surely disqualified in terms of it being quarried.
No, if you check Harold's original post, he started the whole thing by talking about something in the Dinorwig slate quarries.
1
In reply to Tom Last:
Sounds interesting, a far more worthy summit than the clay tips the marilyn baggers are currently obsessed with.
Sounds interesting, a far more worthy summit than the clay tips the marilyn baggers are currently obsessed with.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
OK I've checked the guide.
The one I was thinking of is the pinnacle near White Rose Flake where the easiest (and only?) way to the top is George II (HVS 5a) - descent by abseil.
Is there an easy descent off the back of the pinnacle containing Roadside Crack? If not then the crack is the easiest way up (E1 5b)
> > Brimham must have some pinnacles that are harder than hvs to get up but I don't have a recent guide to check!
> I suspect you're right, but I don't either!
> I suspect you're right, but I don't either!
OK I've checked the guide.
The one I was thinking of is the pinnacle near White Rose Flake where the easiest (and only?) way to the top is George II (HVS 5a) - descent by abseil.
Is there an easy descent off the back of the pinnacle containing Roadside Crack? If not then the crack is the easiest way up (E1 5b)
In reply to harold walmsley:
It doesn't fit Harold's criteria as it's north of the Border, but what grade is the easiest way up Rob Roy's Putting Stone at the head of the Kirkton Glen? There doesn't look to be any trivial line, and the 1899 efforts mentioned here:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1432962
suggest that it's quite hard. I was there today for the first time in a decade - had a late lunch at the stone having come over various tops. Had forgotten what a lovely place it is, a candidate for the nicest spot in the southern Highlands - at least in terms of main-path locations - what with the big stone itself plus the crag it fell off and there's also a very nice lochan just round the corner.
It doesn't fit Harold's criteria as it's north of the Border, but what grade is the easiest way up Rob Roy's Putting Stone at the head of the Kirkton Glen? There doesn't look to be any trivial line, and the 1899 efforts mentioned here:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1432962
suggest that it's quite hard. I was there today for the first time in a decade - had a late lunch at the stone having come over various tops. Had forgotten what a lovely place it is, a candidate for the nicest spot in the southern Highlands - at least in terms of main-path locations - what with the big stone itself plus the crag it fell off and there's also a very nice lochan just round the corner.
Post edited at 00:03
1
In reply to harold walmsley:
Priapic Worship (E2 5b) Is good, little jump off the top of the tower, there is a Diff up the back I think?
Priapic Worship (E2 5b) Is good, little jump off the top of the tower, there is a Diff up the back I think?
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