UKC

Having saved a solo ascent of the route for a 'perfect day' this video shows Dave MacLeod turning seven pitches of roped climbing into a one long ropeless pitch.

Read more

In reply to UKC News:

"Free Solo" .... speak English for pity's sake.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

I've always assumed "free solo" is used to distinguish from rope solo.

In reply to UKC News:

As if dave puts climbing shoes on for VDiff!

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Chill, dude. This is so it'll show up on YouTube along with that Honnold chap.

In reply to uniquechill:

How many solos are rope solos? 5%? 2%?? Whatever the figure is, it must be low. 

For decades 'solo' sufficed. If it was one of the 5% or 2% or whatever, it would be 'rope solo'. So 'solo' and 'rope solo' worked just fine.

Before the film came out, had you ever heard the term 'free solo' used? Neither had I. But now it's all over the place. 

Allegedly they used 'Free Solo' because 'Solo' might have involved them in an intellectual property dispute. If so, it's deeply ironic that Hollywood lawyers should dictate climbing terms. 

For me 'free solo' is like 'wild swimming' - unnecessary and narcissistic. I guess, as Dave MacLeod is a professional climber, he has to play the game for keyword searches, etc. But I bet that, in his heart of hearts, it's good, old-fashioned soloing. 

Mick 

In reply to Mick Ward:

Come on, Mick. It's free climbing. It's solo. Where really is the problem?

'Wild swimming' I get. Like 'wild camping', rarely will there be anything wild about it. It's a naff term intended to impress the ignorant.

But free solo - that's just like the term we usually would have used until just a few years ago, but without any potential ambiguity. I really struggle to see the problem with it.

In reply to john arran:

It's climbing. That's it. Climbing.  There's no need whatsoever for the 'free' bit in this context.

Anyone less likely to aid solo the Diff to end all diffs than Dave Macleod I can't imagine.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

No 'need' at all, no. But neither does it do any harm to add it.

Me neither. But that really is beside the point, which is a perfectly correct and harmless term being objected to for no good reason.

In reply to john arran:

Another entry in the ‘Most UKCish thread on UKC’ 2023 runnings 🙂

In reply to Mick Ward:

I have heard and used the term "free solo" since the early 80's.  Maybe it's just an American expression.

Both Pete Whittaker and Alex Honnold soloed El Cap.  The difference is only in the details.

In reply to uniquechill:

I would hardly call it detail.

Here I think it is the context which is crucial. If someone said they had soloed a Yosemite big wall, then the understood default would be that it had been a rope solo unless indicated otherwise by the word "free", whereas, if someone said they had soloed a British climb, then the understood default would be that it had been a free solo unless indicated otherwise by the word "roped". 

It is very like the default understood difference in what "hockey" is taken to mean in Britain and in Canada; here the understood default is "field" hockey whereas in Canada it is "ice" hockey. 

So, in the context of this video, the use of "free" is certainly not incorrect, but probably unnecessary. I therefore took it, on such an easy climb, to be simply a jokey tongue in cheek allusion to Honnold.

Anyway, I am wondering how this was filmed. Does he have a camera mounted on the end of a magic invisible, yet shadow-casting, stick? Or is it a drone buzzing around his head like an angry fly?

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

Hang on, we haven't established if it was onsight yet

In reply to Robert Durran:

Basically yes, however I believe “magic invisible” is not the correct technical term…

Edit: From Fraser’s link below. The technical term is “invisible selfie stick”.

In reply to Robert Durran:

The "invisible...stick" as you call it, is an Insta360 action camera which has software that clones out where the stick would normally appear. It actually has two internal cameras recording front and back and you can frame which one/overlapping combination you want to see in the final edit. They're incredibly good for action footage, but yeah, you see the shadow in some shots.

https://www.insta360.com/product/insta360-x3?gclid=CjwKCAjws7WkBhBFEiwAIi16...

The long shots in the video however are still done by drone. 

In reply to Fraser:

Sometimes it seems to pan around. Do you operate its with a toggle somehow or is just a case of the user moving around and the stick following?

It's a great way of making things look ridiculously exposed. I nearly fell off Crib Goch the other day and I was only watching it on you tube.

In reply to uniquechill:

So has Andy Kirkpatrick!

It is an Americanism but for an actual reason, not just overhyping. It's because the distinction of free is a lot more relevant somewhere like Yosemite, where free ascents are the minority, and lots of people 'solo' but most will be aid.

In the global, Internet age it seems fair to use this terminology, even in places where other types of 'solo' are unlikely.

In reply to alan moore:

It certainly didn't seem to follow his head movements.

Yes, not sure I like the unrealistic perspective of this sort of filming.

In reply to alan moore:

You do all that stuff when editing the footage. It records 360, you choose what you want to show after the event.

In reply to alan moore:

As jezb1 says,  the camera effectively records everything, ie. the full 360 sphere round the cameras, then you crop or 'frame' your final view in the software. So it doesn't 'follow' anything as such since everything is already captured in the recording. 

In terms of 'not liking the unrealistic perspective', that's too bad, it's a consequence of seeing a wide view than you normal perceive with the human eye. Your brain just ignores the wider peripheral vision. Most people do actually 'see' the same as what's shown here via the Insta360, it's just that your brain essentially filters out the image around the edges. 

In reply to john arran:

Yes it does. It's the start of the slippery slope to getting it completely wrong. It introduces confusion and misunderstsnding amongst laymen 

L&G,  one of the biggest life insurer in the UK, are unwittingly invalidating the cover of hundreds, if not thousands if their customers...

Or from Quora....

Can free climbers (who climb without ropes) take out a life insurance policy?

From cura insurance...

Using the completely unnecessary prefix " free" when describing soloing in the UK adds nothing and just encourages mistakes 

In reply to TheGeneralist:

I think one thing people aren't picking up on is the fact that Dave has an increasingly international profile, with lots of American followers, podcasts with Americans, etc. Just look at any of the comments on any of his youtube videos. 'Free Solo' is a term that everyone, especially in north america, understands. 

In reply to PaulJepson:

I know from my YT channel that only 33% of my viewers are UK based. I’d be surprised if Dave’s figures aren’t broadly similar.

All about engagement so it seems to be doing its job with this thread 😂

In reply to PaulJepson:

As stated above:

'I guess, as Dave MacLeod is a professional climber, he has to play the game for keyword searches, etc.'

But, as also stated above:

'But I bet that, in his heart of hearts, it's good, old-fashioned soloing.'

Mick  

In reply to uniquechill:

That's interesting. Before the film came out, I don't think I ever heard it. 

As Robert pointed out, there's a default setting. 

Mick 

In reply to john arran:

It's Snowdon (well actually it's Yr Wydffa)... it's a mountain... 

But Mount Snowdon?

Mick 

In reply to UKC News:

add me to the list who heard of free soloing before the film.

and yeah, just like ‘wild camping,’ i can see how it could be read as unnecessary specificity – whenever you don’t really need to discern between camping on a camp site and just anywhere, the generic ‘camping’ is sufficient. *if* the audience is aware of the fact. this presupposed knowledge of context is increasingly less feasible the larger and more diverse an audience you’re speaking to.

however, since dave both rope and free solos, and has made several videos on the particulars of each, it can hardly be said to be overly specific of him to opt for the accurate term as a default.

In reply to Removed User:

I mean he wouldn’t want to be accused of polishing it up by climbing it in trainers…

In reply to Mick Ward:

I am extremely surprised at that, I’ve been climbing for decades less than you and run into the term pretty quickly, pretty much always in an American setting.

In reply to Fraser:

I can't bear telly-tubby helmet-cam footage, other than in extremely small doses, but the 360 camera on a magic invisible stick seems to work very much better.

There's a good example here.  (V short little film, but he just takes the opportunity to pan right around and take in the view a couple of times.)  Besides the ability to pan and zoom a 'virtual' camera within the footage later, because of the 360 degree view the stabilisation is amazing.  You can chuck the camera about all over the place and the horizon stays perfectly level in the footage.  Unfortunately they seem to be a bit prone to hanging on to a drop of water on the lens, or I'd be v tempted to get one and have a go at some sea kayaking videos myself.  (Not that I'd presume to compete with John Willacy.)

youtube.com/watch?v=VfPXDOLDGjY&

It's also possible to upload 360 degree footage to youtube and allow the watcher to pan & tilt their own view as they watch it back.  (A bit like Google street view.)  Here's an example a bit more relevant than the above:

youtube.com/watch?v=FRGF77fBAeM&

In reply to TheGeneralist:

I climbed Snowdon from Pen-Y-Pass the other day

In reply to Brass Nipples:

You Free-Walked it.  Way to go dude. Rad send.

In reply to deepsoup:

Cheers for that, and I'd agree it's way better than the usually unwatchable helmet-cam footage. Couldn't get your first link to work but I'd seen the second one before and it's a great example of the added functionality provided by the 360.

In reply to Fraser:

Something a bit odd was going on with that first link.  I copy/pasted the short version of the address but it gets mangled in the post for some reason.  The long version was this:

youtube.com/watch?v=VfPXDOLDGjY&

Funnily enough, in the context of UKC terminology wrangling, JW often 'climbs' in his sea kayaking vids.  (Meaning that he paddles upstream - upstream is 'higher up' on moving water.  And in a manner of speaking it really is higher up, that's why the water is moving.)

Edit:  Nope.  The long version of the youtube URL gets mangled too.  Weird.  It's just a bit of footage of a paddler enjoying a nice mellow surf on the 'Snowdonia Wave' on the Menai Strait on a sunny day.  If you put "Snowdonia Freeboard" in the Youtube search box it takes you right to it.

In reply to Alkis:

I'm sure there have been debates on UKC about "solo" -vs- "free solo" etc. for as long as UKC has been a thing.

In reply to deepsoup:

I think in the past they have usually been about the misapprehension that they are not synonymous.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Sometimes.  Every possible angle has been done. (To death!)  The subject is what they used to call a 'groaner'.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Not "not"!

In reply to Alkis:

Think the American setting might explain it. 

Don't they call routes routs?

Mick 

In reply to uniquechill:

The very first reply had it.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

Did it on my own with no ropes. Definitely free solo 😃

In reply to UKC News:

Of course "free solo" is an unfortunate term because "free" already has the meaning of not using aid. So you could have a free roped solo, or an aided free solo, or, as here, a free free solo. 

In reply to Robert Durran:

Dave could use 'All Right Now' as background music then he'd be doing a free free solo with a Free solo

In reply to Lankyman:

I doubt that he paid anyone for the climb either so .......

In reply to uniquechill:

There is a book by Alex Huber called Free Solo, the term got used broadly.

To just call it solo is just being casual about it.

In reply to Mick Ward: Having climbed since the late 1960s I’m with Mick on this one. Climbing without ropes was always just “soloing”. The term “free” I associate as distinguishing a climb from one where “aid” was used. However, “Free Solo” now seems to describe what I always have thought of as just “soloing” but so far, in conversation, I have only heard it used by non-climbers or those relatively new to the game. I suppose it is a terminological change like “so fun” which is now widely used but to my ear needs an intervening word.