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Newbies to fingerboard training club

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 joem 17 Mar 2020

Well as like it or not it looks like lots of our normal indoor training facilities are going to be closed for the foreseeable and outdoor training might well be restricted by many things not least the weather. I thought there might be quite a few people like me who’ve just pulled there finger board out of the loft and are thinking about using it in anger for the first time. So I’ve started this thread to:

- share tips on finger board training 

- share motivation 

- share workouts 

- any other positive vibes on this subject, lets keep our complaining to other threads!

 Iamgregp 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Great idea!  My BeastMaker 1000 has been up for a while but just did my second ever (!) session at the weekend.  I'm using the hangboard guru app and did the Beginner 30 Minutes Strength and endurance session. 

It was pretty strenuous, and comes at you pretty quickly, but I looked at the intermediate version of the same and it's pretty much the same but with a couple of extra seconds on the half crimp hangs and a couple more pull up on jugs so I might give that one a go next time.

It's going to be a frustrating time for the next few months but we can all come out of it much stronger.  Albeit with terrible footwork!

This thread is just what I need.  Let's find some positivity out of all of this!

Post edited at 14:37
 Alex Riley 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

The Crimpd app is a great tool for Finger strength testing and Is supported by the lattice videos on YouTube.

Take it slow and steady, tendons like routine and  can easily be injured by loading too quickly/much/frequently.

 joem 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

Ill have a look at the hangboard guru app I’ve not heard of that before.

ive got the crimpd one, but thats lots of wall based stuff with only some body weight and fingerboard stuff.

 Iamgregp 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

I really recommend it - free, massive variety of workouts at different levels and was developed by Neil Gresham.

Works for all kinds of different boards too...

 Iamgregp 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Alex Riley:

I'll have a look at that, my finger strength isn't all that so might be a good area to work on whilst all this is going on...

 lorentz 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Beastmaker app ...  powered by Corona Labs. Conspiracy theory alert!!!

 joem 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

Sounds not working on it for me which is mildly annoying 

In reply to joem:

As someone of (ahem) advancing years, I had started to get really tweaky fingers. I used the Beastmaker to develop my open handed grip, and never looked back.

 joem 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

Managed to get the sound working. 
did the beginner strength endurance fingers shoulders and core one and I’m nearly dead.

I'm claiming the having also been for a run excuse..

Post edited at 19:52
 mark s 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

how long till a thread about bust A2 pullies from finger boards.

In reply to joem:

As an ageing climber suffering with tennis elbow, which Beastmaker board would you recommend? 

 ianstevens 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

Rehab your elbow first. Then a 1000.

In reply to ianstevens:

Cheers. I’ve been trying to rehab my elbows for five years without success.  I’ve tried all sorts of exercises, I use an armaid regularly and have been treated by physios and osteopaths, it has now been become a case of trying to manage it and keep on climbing.

 joem 17 Mar 2020
In reply to mark s:

Approximately 5 mins I expect.

In reply to joem:

I found when starting off even the beginner routines were too much so I came up with my own.  To get used to small holds use a harness and pulley system to take off weight.

 Lemony 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

You’ve never been for a run in your life! 

 ianstevens 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

> Cheers. I’ve been trying to rehab my elbows for five years without success.  I’ve tried all sorts of exercises, I use an armaid regularly and have been treated by physios and osteopaths, it has now been become a case of trying to manage it and keep on climbing.

Fair enough, sounds shit. Unless you climbing right up in the high 7s there’s nothing on a 1k too easy.

 joem 17 Mar 2020
In reply to Lemony:

I’ve now been for atleast one ;)

 Lemony 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Was The Bake having a chuck out? 
 

watch that knee...

 kevin stephens 17 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

how did you get the sound to work?

 pec 17 Mar 2020
In reply to RX-78:

> To get used to small holds use a harness and pulley system to take off weight.

A simpler alternative can be to hang an old bike inner tube from the board and stand in that for a bit of support.

In reply to pec:

I don't have a fingerboard but as a result of my PT1 workshop Katherine from Love to Climb has advised my to do pull ups to increase pull power.

I do Crimpd on the minute upper body work out sometimes but not every time.

S

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

I'm just gonna drop this here: 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B91amoGqvtf/ 

Please, please be careful with your fingers. Fingerboarding is far more intense than climbing and the risk of developing a stress injury from a sudden increase in volume/regularity is far higher. 

Write yourself a training plan focused on muscle conditioning (pull, push, core, flexibility) with a moderate amount of fingerboard work (2-3 times a week) and don't push too hard. The last thing you want when all the gyms are back open and the crag season is back on is to have a finger injury that ruins your year. 

Not looking to ruin psyche but there's nothing better for ruining psyche than a pulley imploding. 

2
In reply to MischaHY:

What about pull ups on jugs.

I have been doing yoga which is good for climbing including Chataranga Dandasana (Four Limbed Staff Pose).

Also I Y T on my belly at home.

 Iamgregp 18 Mar 2020
In reply to MischaHY:

Sound advice as always there.  Gently gently with the fingerboard... 

All the routines I'm looking at right now only use the jugs, or hangs on half crimps so I doubt I'm even putting as much strain on my fingers as my normal climbing routine. 

However I imagine the longer this goes on the more I'll start to introduce the more challenging holds into the routine, but it's still very early days right now.

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Mountain Spirit:

Probably fine Sav, just be careful with those shoulders. Yoga sounds great, as does IYT. Stay safe. 

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

Sounds good. I'm more worried about the mega keen lads/ladys who are now thinking they can fingerboard 5x a week because they're not climbing! 

In reply to MischaHY:

Thanks Mischa. 

I have been advised to get one with large holds jug holds such as the 1000.

I always warm shoulders up and precondition them with rings and TRX work.

 I have doing yoga since I found out my flexibility was rubbish when I started climbing and now I can almost pancake. 

In reply to MischaHY:

Fore arm balances will strength the fore arm muscles. I was told fingerstrength comes from the forearms.

Post edited at 11:35
 joem 18 Mar 2020
In reply to MischaHY:

Yeah going to start on the easier workouts that don’t seem too extreme. The apps I’m looking out also have good core and flexibility workouts so that should help.

In reply to joem:

I am a big Crimpd fan and sqwark gives me a lot good advice for core n flexibility.

In reply to MischaHY:

What Mischa says...

there used to be a section on on the Beastmaker website describing how slowly tendons strengthen, so don’t expect too much progression too soon.

Also, dont wait for elbow injuries, start antagonistic exercises now.

Don’t train tired, don’t sag onto straight arms and straightened out shoulders.

work on that open hand!

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

I'm taking this an opportunity to finally address my piss poor sloper strength! BM2K 'Slopercentric' left my forearms feeling wrecked. 

In reply to MischaHY:

I’m finally transitioning over to my BM2K, but the wood isn’t worn I yet (that’s my excuse) so it’s very slow going with the slopers. Waiting for a delivery of small crimps for my wall which should keep me busy for quite a while.

i think me and wife are going to start walking over and ticking unfashionable Peak limestone sports routes over the next few weeks.

1
 JLS 18 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

I reckon good approach as a gateway into harder fingerboarding would be to look at the crimped apps endurance routines which calls for around 50% weight subtraction with a pulley system. Anyone that’s just beginning fingerboarding and typically climbing in the sixes need not get too hung up the exact weight to subtract, just start easy (50% body weight rather than 50% max hang) and play it by ear. Maybe a month in, when your fingers are used to the exercise, do max testing and hone the weights involved.

Go open handed rather than half crimp. It may be less effective but it’s just safer.

Post edited at 18:16
1
 joem 18 Mar 2020
In reply to JLS:

That’s a great tip, with the openhanded thing, i find myself just doing this in most of my climbing, i have to really focus to full crimp stuff

 MischaHY 18 Mar 2020
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

They're really hard. My board also overhangs a couple of degrees which makes the 45's ridiculous.

I'm thankful that I have some fairly rarely frequented sport/bouldering in the area where I live and some projects on the go so for the moment can carry on with some level of normality - but I suspect the German government will be going for full lock down for a couple of weeks at some stage in the near future (although I do think it depends on the extent of infections/deaths and load on the health system). 

Me and the girly are racking our brains looking for ways we could get some kind of board or similar up but we live in a tiny rented house and space is non-existent. 

In reply to MischaHY:

There was a rumour that London will go into lockdown with all public transport stopped.

3
 Iamgregp 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MischaHY:

The 45's are hard I have to be really warmed up and chalky before I can even hang on them.  A couple of degrees more would render them useless to me!

 Iamgregp 20 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Did another 30 min workout yesterday, but having seen lots of posters on social media advising caution when fingerboarding, including Neil Gresham who made the app I used I stuck to a beginner workout.

I wish there was another level of holds on the BM1000, the jugs are great for pullups, the deep pockets are good to do a kind of half crimp on, but I feel I could do with something a bit smaller, but not so small as the next set up, which are pretty challenging for a newbie such as me....

 MischaHY 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

> The 45's are hard 

> I wish there was another level of holds on the BM1000

Possibly you've got the 35's in mind? IIRC that's the steepest angle on the 1000. Still savage! 

You can use a pulley system to remove a bit of weight on the 20mm crimps (bottom left and right) in order to do some more repeaters on them. 

Go steady on the crimps though  

 Iamgregp 20 Mar 2020
In reply to MischaHY:

Oh really, those are 35?  Bloody hell....

Yeah I'm thinking I'll rig up a pulley during the lockdown.  I've got it set up halfway down my stairs so you can just keep one foot on to make an assist but it'll be easier to monitor and control the level assist with a proper pulley and weight system

Yes. Easy on the crimps. I had a finger injury a few years back and do not want one again!

 Stone_donkey 20 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Taking it back a step - putting your fingerboard up! My house (or at least the rooms that I could get away with installing a board) have plasterboard walls, not brick/stone. Is it possible to use a fingerboard on these without pulling your wall down? If so, what fittings are recommended?

 Iamgregp 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Stone_donkey:

This is the first difficult challenge presented by all fingerboards!

 There's loads of threads on here about it.. This was a recent one - https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/another_beastmaker_mounting_thread-698554 

Good luck!

 UKB Shark 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Stone_donkey:

> Taking it back a step - putting your fingerboard up! My house (or at least the rooms that I could get away with installing a board) have plasterboard walls, not brick/stone. Is it possible to use a fingerboard on these without pulling your wall down? If so, what fittings are recommended?

This is an option: http://crusherholds.co.uk/fingerboard-hangboard-mounting-device-2

 joem 20 Mar 2020
In reply to Stone_donkey:

I managed to make a door frame mount with a small amount of ply board a 1inch by 1inch 75cm ish bit of wood and few screws using basic tools. I’d post a picture but I can’t work that out.

edit: basically the same as the crusher holds one linked above but less pretty.

Post edited at 16:50
In reply to joem:

Is the best fingerboard for pull ups Beastmaker 1000?

 lorentz 21 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

I'm using the beastmaker app on a 1000. I struggle to  hang  7 secs on/3 secs off for more than a set or two. 

Should I do fewer reps in a set (say 5 instead of 7) in this time scenario or should I put in more reps on say 6 secs on 4 secs off which seems easier. What's best for themz gainz, yo!?

 JLS 22 Mar 2020
In reply to lorentz:

If you can, just subtract weight with a pulley. I’ve just completed my first CV internment session with -10kg. I figure I’m likely to be doing a lot of these sessions in the coming weeks so was kind to myself, reducing the intensity down to a fairly comfortable level. Plan on reducing the negative weight by 1kg per week. Expect that’ll gently ramp me back up to full body weight and beyond.

In the past, on the hardest hangs, I’ve gone for 5on/5off and that let me complete the sets as a steppingstone up to 7/3.

Post edited at 15:07
 joem 22 Mar 2020
In reply to joem: I have now got distracted from fingerboard training by panic constructing a woody in the loft.

Ill most likely get back on the finger board when I’m “working from home” next week. How’s everyone else coping?

 lorentz 22 Mar 2020
In reply to JLS:

Cheers. Good idea. I'll look into it as a little DIY project.

 Stone_donkey 22 Mar 2020
In reply to UKB Shark:

Thanks, that looks worth a look 

In reply to joem:

Second session today on my new Beastmaker 1000, find the 11 on 3 rest difficult to coordinate......

 joem 24 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Did another session from the hangboard guru app today felt like a right beasting even on beginner!!!!

 lorentz 25 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Had a jam this morning. Managing to hold 7 on 3 off on the easier holds for 7 reps in a set with 2:30 off between.  Dropped down to 6on 4off on harder hangs. Forearms were pumped to hell, but seeing improvement!

Tune selection is all important. As is not having the dog running around under my feet while I'm hanging. Most distracting!

 joem 25 Mar 2020
In reply to lorentz:

I was just dealing with the girlfriend wanting to change rooms

 lorentz 25 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Mine kept wanting to change the playlist. Turns out she's not as into 90s drum'n'bass as me. :/

 joem 26 Mar 2020
In reply to lorentz:

found that the beginner fingers only workout was easier than the others obviously my finger strength isn't the main issue.

In reply to Iamgregp:

> I wish there was another level of holds on the BM1000, the jugs are great for pullups, the deep pockets are good to do a kind of half crimp on, but I feel I could do with something a bit smaller, but not so small as the next set up, which are pretty challenging for a newbie such as me....

I panic bought a 1000 and a 2000 last week having tried both at the wall. I'm very glad I did. I'm focussing on max hangs for pure finger strength (this is my main climbing weakness so a good chance to work on it!), following a Dave Macleod vid. I've been doing four different grips and really do find I need one board for two of them and the other for the other two, though I'm hoping all will end up on the 2000 as I get stronger!

 MischaHY 28 Mar 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

> I wish there was another level of holds on the BM1000, the jugs are great for pullups, the deep pockets are good to do a kind of half crimp on, but I feel I could do with something a bit smaller, but not so small as the next set up, which are pretty challenging for a newbie such as me....

Bang a AAA battery into the deep slots, it works great and offers a medium sized hold. 

 barbeg 29 Mar 2020
In reply to joem:

Is there an Android version of hangboard guru ?

 Dyfed72 04 Apr 2020
In reply to joem:

I mainly use the Beastmaker app sessions, but also have custom workouts including max hangs (try Crimpd app) and sessions that utilise additional training tools (Metolius rings and power grips). It was a huge challenge working though BM app sessions - took 18 months to get to 7a (those grades are a bit nuts (and demoralising) by the way). 
 

The key for me was creating an environment conducive to training: music on, climbing film/bouldering comp on YouTube on iPad, mug of tea, climbing mag or guidebook to flick through during rests. I also put an old bouldering pad under my fingerboard - nice to sit on in between sets and you can pretend you are actually climbing (or at least makes you associate what you’re doing with climbing). Do everything you can to make it enjoyable and something you want to do. 
 

good luck. 
 

 Tom Loughlin 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Dyfed72:

Word to all this - very sound advice. Some inspirational pictures on the wall, a cup of tea, a guidebook with some too-hard problems, round of goes and a rest, could almost be at the crag..!

On a side note: you’re Cheltenham based aren’t you? I moved here last year with my family for work purposes - virtual rock poverty but once this craziness is over we should get down to Gandalf’s. email me if you’re ever stuck for a spotter etc. Go safe and enjoy those killer repeaters 

 Dyfed72 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Tom Loughlin:

Sounds good; I’m up for that. Plus there’s the new Boulders Centre to look forward.

And I have that massive North Wales bouldering guide that needs some proper use. 

 Tom Loughlin 04 Apr 2020
In reply to Dyfed72:

Now you’re talking - got the same guide as my resting reading material in the garage for beastmaker nights. So much to go at. Shout me up when we’re out of lockdown and we should pilgrimage up to cymru

 Dyfed72 05 Apr 2020
In reply to Tom Loughlin:

make it so

 birks3746 09 Apr 2020
In reply to Dyfed72:

As a relative newbie to the club, I've been working may through the crimpd app to get some structure.

Really surprised how doing just the front three (half crimp) is for me sooo much harder than full hand half crimp. 

Any general advice on how to improve here? 

Also if you are failing very quickly at something eg front 3, is it best to abandon for time being and work something easier or keep trying but failing?

Cheers, Luke 

 Tom Loughlin 10 Apr 2020
In reply to birks3746:

Hi Luke,

With the proviso that I am not claiming to be any source of authority: it is totally normal to have imbalances and weaknesses, particularly if you have never isolated grip types and trained them. It's a process of natural selection for most - we feel more comfortable on one grip type, so use it more, so it gets stronger and more reflexive, so we neglect the weaker grip types and it becomes ingrained behaviour with concomitant physical differences that you are now noticing!

In response to your query: I would, personally, consider 'working the weaknesses' as one of the most time efficient and effective ways of proceeding. If you are noticing that one grip type is so comparatively weak then imagine the relatively swift gains you will get from focusing on that rather than trying to strengthen an already pretty strong grip type. The main adjustable factors you have to manage intensity are weight and hold type i.e. remove weight and/or increase hold size to reduce intensity and vice versa. If you can't hang body weight on the biggest holds you have then you could rig up a pulley system so you can add weight to a backpack and reduce measurable quantities of weight (e.g. 5x 2 litre water bottles = approx. 10kg)

Ways to achieve increase in maximal strength on a grip type - there's loads of advice and, again, I'm not an expert. My understanding from Macleod's video is that one method is : spend a session (or several) finding what your max hang is on the hangboard (this will be a gradual process of finding what edge/ weight combo you can actually hang for 7-10 seconds only). That then becomes your max: train that as he suggests, by warming up thoroughly, building up to your max and then do a 10 second hang - 2 minute rest x3. You can then move onto a different hang type or several if you want, but you will notice you lose your edge really quickly doing this as you are putting in maximal effort, so I tend to focus on three grip types (so 9 hangs in total) and then move on to something else e.g. pull ups, shoulder stability routines etc. That is then a good session and takes me around an hour only including warm up - very time efficient.

There are other methods to train grip types, such as the beastmaker repeater routine of 7 seconds on, 3 off x 7 and cycle through different grip types. I have used a slightly amended version of this, which I find beneficial, which is where you choose a grip type (e.g. three finger drag) and do for a repeater set of 7 seconds on, 3 seconds off x 7, rest for 3 minutes then do same grip (three finger drag in this case) + 4kg (or 2, or 5 or whatever feels a moderate increase in intensity) for a set of 7 seconds on, 3 seconds off x 6, rest for 3 minutes, then do same grip type for a repeater set + 8kg (or 10 or 12 or whatever) for 7 on, 3 off x 5. If it's too easy, add weight next time, if too hard reduce weight etc. I tend to do 3 - 6 grip types with this, depending on how intense or volumey I want it to be.

As I say, I'm no expert but I have got good gains from these two methods. Above all: go steady, warm up properly, don't overdo it, make sure you rest properly, it's better to play around and find your limits rather than going too far too fast and wrecking yourself. Listen to your body and do not ignore tweaks. Make sure you are doing antagonist exercises and maintaining good form (engaged shoulders etc.) throughout. I hope this helps.

Post edited at 09:53
In reply to Tom Loughlin:

> Hi Luke,

> It is totally normal to have imbalances and weaknesses, particularly if you have never isolated grip types and trained them. It's a process of natural selection for most - we feel more comfortable on one grip type, so use it more, so it gets stronger and more reflexive, so we neglect the weaker grip types.

While I can see the point in training 4 fingers, 3 fingers and 2 fingers (because not all the fingers will always fit on a hold or in a pocket), I am still not entirely convinced that it is worth training both (half) crimp and open handed if you are already far stronger with one of them - why not just stick with the one you prefer on all holds and maximise your strength with that?

1
 JLS 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

There are times when my poor half crimp has let me down quite badly of certain holds. Mainly on plastic it has to be said...

 Tom Loughlin 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Hi Robert,

Again, I’d emphasise I’m not an expert but I would disagree with your contention that strengthening strengths is more effective. I am happy with strengthening tendons in a variety of hold types and grip types, as it would seem fairly conducive to good climbing and injury prevention to be more well rounded than relying on one type.

Specifically - what if the hold you hit requires you to drag, or drag and then bump into a crimp/ half crimp? If you’re strong on the half crimp but can’t hang open handed you’ll fall off..?

PS the dislike is not from me btw

Post edited at 19:48
In reply to JLS:

> There are times when my poor half crimp has let me down quite badly of certain holds. Mainly on plastic it has to be said...

What sort of holds specifically? I don't think I've ever used a crimp or half crimp or felt that I need to do so.

In reply to Tom Loughlin:

> Specifically - what if the hold you hit requires you to drag, or drag and then bump into a crimp/ half crimp?

Why would I need to bump into a crimp if I am strong in the drag position? Sorry, I'm struggling to imagine a situation where a crimp or half crimp is necessary or preferable.

Post edited at 20:18
1
 Tom Loughlin 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Well that’s because you’re strong in the drag/ open position. The guy I’m responding to seems to be in the opposite state to you, where anything other than full crimp is notably weaker. Depends how much you want to be reliant on one grip type - your call. Lots of people get stuck into one grip type and for me I had a bad tendon injury meaning I could no longer just rely on crimp/ half crimp and had to develop a different strength set. Feel much more rounded and less injury-probable now. If you want to be strong in one grip that’s cool with me, although when I am cranking on edges I still naturally go into a half crimp but have a wider set of options now. 

 birks3746 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

> While I can see the point in training 4 fingers, 3 fingers and 2 fingers (because not all the fingers will always fit on a hold or in a pocket), I am still not entirely convinced that it is worth training both (half) crimp and open handed if you are already far stronger with one of them - why not just stick with the one you prefer on all holds and maximise your strength with that?

Well yes and no to your point, there's a significant body of evidence that training in half crimp position is very beneficial, for both half crimp and all other grip positions.

For me, my half crimp is weaker than open hand (I believe this is normal but not 100% sure) so Im focussing on this position the most, as I believe this will yield greatest benefits longer term. 

In reply to Tom Loughlin:

I'd always understood that crimping was far more prone to injury than open handed, so I've always been happy to stick with with open handed which seems totally natural to me (I climbed for about 20 years without even knowing anybody used any other type of grip!) and I've not had any significant finger issues in 40 years. So, having in the last few weeks looked into fingerboarding seriously (for obvious reasons), I've, for the first time had anyone tell me I should start using any other grip type. I just don't want to risk doing so unless there are really, really good reasons for it.

 Tom Loughlin 10 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

I don’t think there’s any particular prescription to do anything! I like to isolate different fingers and different grip types and work on them and measure progress. If you are happy with open handed grip and are going to climb on that exclusively then I don’t know if training a different set would be appropriate for you. Whether you would get benefits from training half crimp I don’t know, you’d need to do some research. 
 

Even if not, there’s loads to go at to improve open hand strength: different holds/ fingers combinations etc. I’m currently enjoying three finger drag one-arm hangs having never been able to touch these when I started. Go safe and enjoy!

In reply to joem:

Just taken a potentially dangerous fall off my fingerboard. Warm up pull-up ripped it off the wall and I flew backwards down my stairs. Fortunately only minor scrapes and bruises...... Who said something about lockdown DIY accidents? Or just a matter of total incompetence......

 Tom Loughlin 11 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Or you’re just too strong already.

 lorentz 11 Apr 2020
In reply to Tom Loughlin:

> Or you’re just too strong already.

The beastmaker worked. "And lo... A beast was created. And verily he was hench."

Hope you're okay, Robert! Sounds like it could've been nasty. 

Post edited at 09:17
 Dyfed72 11 Apr 2020
In reply to birks3746:

Short answer: keep trying. I found half crimp really hard (and posted about it on this forum) but persevered and now it feels fine, even with added weight. As for 3 fingers vs 4 fingers, I have short little fingers, which I can’t engage in half crimp position; they just drag. 
 

my unscientific advice is to keep trying (but pay close attention to your tendons and stop at first sign of a tweak).

For scientific advice, see other posters above. They know a load more about this stuff than me. 
 

Good luck

In reply to lorentz:

> Hope you're okay, Robert! Sounds like it could've been nasty. 

Thanks! Just feeling a little battered, but fingerboard back up more securely. 

In reply to Tom Loughlin:

> Or you’re just too strong already.

I was just doing some warm up pull ups. Dynamic load must have been too much for it!

 JLS 11 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Not sure if they are Core or Bleustone but GCC have ear shape/size holds that have space behind them that tips can be squeezed into, to do which, requires a half-crimp grip. It’s shaped such that it’s poor open-handed. You probably wouldn’t manage to get you tip in the space and just reach past these holds.

Shame you didn’t get a video of you fingerboard fall for Rock & Ice Whipper of the Week.  

In reply to JLS:

> Not sure if they are Core or Bleustone but GCC have ear shape/size holds that have space behind them that tips can be squeezed into, to do which, requires a half-crimp grip. It’s shaped such that it’s poor open-handed.

I'm trying to imagine that. Not sure how a hold doesn't either support the joint nearest the tip of a finger in a straight position or else allow it to be bent.

> Shame you didn’t get a video of you fingerboard fall for Rock & Ice Whipper of the Week.  

It would have been quite comical and spectacular! Never really hurt myself falling off anything before I don't think - could have been very much worse. Biggest problem it broke my phone wire and killed internet - very fiddly to repair!

 Inhambane 20 Apr 2020
In reply to joem:

Been a while now since this thred was started It Would be interesting to see if people have recorded any gains or losses.  

I have managed to double my hang times from 10s to 20s on a 20mm edge. I am finding this very bizarre as I've been stuck at the 8-10s mark for over 3 months and I've not changed anything about my protocol. My hypothesis is that I must have lost weight in my legs from the inactivity, but with out a scale I cannot test that. 

​​​​

 C Witter 20 Apr 2020
In reply to joem:

Hope everyone's staying positive and not restlessly moping, feeling personally tormented by the constant sunshine and generally pining for the crags and fells.

Below is what I've been doing on a BM2000 fingerboard - if you have any advice on how to improve it, please let me know. The aim is, as far as possible, to not only maintain climbing fitness but also make good finger strength gains during the lockdown. Advice much appreciated!

- Warm up with some joint mobilisation, 'mountain climbers', pressups, pullups
- 7s on, 3s off x 6 on the four-finger pockets, chisel grip then a few mins rest and pressups, plank, or similar
- 10s on 50s off x 4 on four-finger pockets, half crimp (which I find harder!), then a few mins rest, pressups, maybe some core
- 10s on 50 off x 6 on shallow four-finger pockets, chisel grip, few mins rest
- 8s on 50 off on medium two-finger pockets, middle and ring finger, open grip; alternated with 6s on 50 off on deep two-finger pockets, middle and index finger, open grip x 4 on each. Then rest for a few mins.
- Pullups on the four-finger pockets (perhaps 4 per minute x 5)
- "Hang" various holds that I'm unable to hang with body weight with feet on floor, body at 45', as though on very steep ground; then freeplay on various holds in the same manner until I get pumped silly; shake out and repeat a bit more until I'm done in.
- Perhaps a few more pushups and quit.

Repeat roughly three times per week... Obviously the "routine" keeps evolving slightly, e.g. being able to add a couple of seconds or move one hold smaller; or simply doing something a bit different one day due to boredom/misplaced enthusiasm.

As I say, if you've any advice or ideas on different approaches or exercises, it'd be great to compare notes.

Post edited at 17:10
 Andy Reeve 20 Apr 2020
In reply to Inhambane:

> Been a while now since this thred was started It Would be interesting to see if people have recorded any gains or losses.  

> I have managed to double my hang times from 10s to 20s on a 20mm edge. I am finding this very bizarre as I've been stuck at the 8-10s mark for over 3 months and I've not changed anything about my protocol. My hypothesis is that I must have lost weight in my legs from the inactivity, but with out a scale I cannot test that. 

> ​​​​

Last year I had a very busy (thesis writing) period when I was not climbing much but did write a bit of hang boarding. I did unusually well at the hanging but I think that was because my body only had that stimulus to recover from. Had I been climbing at the same time I suspect that I would not have had as good scores on the hang board as my body's resources would have been stretched more thinly. I wonder if this could also explain your improvements? If that is the case, then I guess that the trick will be to consolidate and maintain your increased finger strength even when we go back to some form of normal climbing.

 1poundSOCKS 20 Apr 2020
In reply to C Witter:

> As I say, if you've any advice or ideas on different approaches or exercises, it'd be great to compare notes.

Overall I tend to target strength over endurance when I'm training. Happy to build up some endurance on the rock when we can get out. And I only have 2 campus rungs screwed to a beam in the garage, so limited equipment. Would love to have a board.

Anyway, I like to switch priority between repeaters and max hangs every couple of weeks. Repeaters for hypertrophy/power endurance, max hangs for max recuritment/max finger strength.

I tend to do far less than you on a single day, but keep the intensity high and do more days, maybe 4 or 5.

A single day might be just warm up and 6 sets of repeaters. If they get too easy I'll make them harder by adding weight. Not scientific but keeps the suffering manageable. And I get bored standing in a manky garage. But less is more for strength gains as they say.

Another day might be max hangs, but just 6 hangs in total, mix of half crimp and 3 finger open. Using hang to failure for a change, with weights to make sure it doesn't take too long (10 to 20 seconds) to fail. Followed by some shoulder engagement work, but maybe only for 15 mins. This included weighted shoulder engagement, weighted lock offs and slow negatives, body weight one arm negatives.  Just whatever feels hard for me.

I would do more core and set up a TRX but an injury is stopping me atm and these exercises don't aggrevate it. I really rate I, Y, T on the TRX. Start on the knees and build up slowly so you can do them on your toes.

On the evening been doing some hip strength and antagonist work.

I feel like I'm getting stronger but it's hard to tell atm.

Post edited at 17:45
 Andy Reeve 20 Apr 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Hi, happy to give my (enthusiastic punter) view but perhaps you could fill out some context first? Such as previous training leading up to this, kind of routes wanting to do once we get the chance, etc

 C Witter 20 Apr 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Thanks, that's already useful and interesting.

 C Witter 20 Apr 2020
In reply to Andy Reeve:

Hm.... context! Well, I've been climbing about 6 years and my training is mostly bouldering and climbing itself, with a few punts at fingerboarding and some slightly boring sessions doing laps on the autobelay at Kendal.

This year's goals were: consolidate E1, get a couple of good E2s done, and see if you feel like a punt at a few harder things (an E5 I've top-roped previously; and E3 I've seconded). In bouldering, I wanted to get my first font 7A done, as I've done a small number of 6Cs. Sport climbing outside, I just wanted to get more in.

Does that help? Any friendly punter advice very much appreciated.

 Andy Reeve 20 Apr 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Thanks.

For me I would avoid doing strength and power-endurance (i.e. getting really pumped) in the same session. You could split them into different days (PE can probably be adequately maintained on 1 session each week), or, my preference is it were me would be to do much lower intensity longer-term stamina (aka AeroCap) by making your endurance sessions easier longer. This will any as a good base for your endurance and is very applicable to most trad.

Is also consider alternating between pull ups and Frenchies, for the variety as well as both being helpful.

You are doing more volume at your stronger grip (chisel) than weaker (half crimp). I'd change this round.

That's a lot of hangs so can't ask be max, but given the lack of time on the wall art the moment I think having some extra time hanging is good to keep the level of conditioning up.

Sorry for brevity, battery about to die and in at work without a charger!

 C Witter 20 Apr 2020
In reply to Andy Reeve:

Thanks Andy - that seems like sound advice! I have to say, I hate half crimps because I feel so weak on them, but I'm sure you're right. I've started trying to put in some "Franglais" pull ups, but I need to look  up Frenchies again to see how other people do them. And, what you say about splitting power and power endurance makes sense. I do avoid maxing out my hangs, mostly because I find it to be a bit of practical nuisance to add weight (I've been hanging weights off a harness, between my legs), but I have been wondering about whether adding weight more regularly would be more effective.

Thanks again!

 Iamgregp 21 Apr 2020
In reply to C Witter:

Neil Gresham reckons that the Chisel grip is fine for endurance training and actual climbing, but basically useless for improving finger strength, to the extent that he says if your index finger does straighten, finish the set and adjust you weight or hold as maintaining the index at 90 degrees in a strict half crimp is the most point in finger strength training.

Not exactly sure why, something to do with the science of the half crimp and what it does to to your tendons.

I also absolutely hate half crimps and basically never do them when i climb but in the few weeks of lockdown we've had I've been using Gresham Hangboard Guru App (and some others) and am just about getting half crimp repeaters on the 20mm edge.  That felt absolutely impossible to me a month back.  

I'm still proper shit mind.  But I feel not as shit as a few weeks ago.

 Andy Reeve 21 Apr 2020
In reply to C Witter:

No problem 🙂

 C Witter 21 Apr 2020
In reply to Iamgregp:

I best hitch my horse to the half-crimp bandwagon, it seems! I'll report back if it becomes less of an arse! ;)

In reply to Andy Reeve:

Anyone ideas for using a fingerboard for trad climbing? A slightly desperate idea I know! I'm using a Beastmaker 1000 and the Beastmaker 1000 training app. The app is great, I am slowly moving up through the levels and it's fun but it's probably not going to help very much when doing mountain trad. I'm wondering whether its worth rotating every couple of weeks between finger strength and stamina. Stamina is about more reps, longer hangs and shorter rests? Could anyone suggest a basic skeleton of a plan?

thanks

mike

 joem 24 Apr 2020
In reply to mike lawrence?:

Pete whittaker had something on instagram where he was doing moves around his beastmaker with his feet on a hold this might be useful for a more route based approach. You would use a chair set back at by different amounts to change the intensity. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_VXwcxpUJY/?igshid=11aacmenf3zni

Post edited at 16:43
In reply to joem:

I'm a big fan of evidence based training, so I'd recommend you check out the Eva Lopez website for studies on fingerboarding and the protocols. Also, the app Complex Timer is great for hangboarding (but maybe watch the tutorial on how it works, as it is complex). Also, my experience with injury qualifies me in saying don't rush anything related to hangboards; start very easy and build up gradually. The advice I've read from Eric Horst is: don't touch a fingerboard til you've climbed regular for two years. Though I know others who don't follow this advice, your risk of injury is higher! Good luck.

In reply to Iamgregp:

> Neil Gresham reckons that the Chisel grip is fine for endurance training and actual climbing, but basically useless for improving finger strength.

I can't see the logic of this. If I use the chisel grip and go from being able to hang for 10 seconds with no added weight to being able to hang for 10 seconds with 10kg added weight, it has got stronger and I will be stronger using it actually climbing.

Having said that, I'd never heard of the chisel grip before I read this, so I tried it and couldn't do it because my index finger is too long (either all fingers are bent or none of them are!)

Post edited at 15:37
 Iamgregp 25 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yeah like I say, I’m not sure of the science or reasoning behind it. I think perhaps his theory is that by doing the half crimp all of the tendons are being worked and strengthened so by doing that it’ll improve the strength of all the different grips (crimp/half/chisel/open), but I’m really just guessing! I’m just gonna stick with it for now, he literally wrote the book on training so I’m just going to take his word for it!

The whole figerboarding malarkey has made me think a lot about grip. I’ve read about the chisel grip in the past but never done it. And, like you said, I don’t find it comfortable at all. However weirdly when I was trying half crimp repeaters the other day I noticed when I got tired my hand relaxed into a chisel grip. Weird.

Also, I realised early into lockdown that what I call a crimp I’d actually just a half crimp, and that I never have fully crimped in my life. Truth be told I’d rarely half crimped! BUT.... (drum roll please) I got my first set of half crimp repeaters on the 20mm edge just now!

Super pleased. At the start of lockdown even putting a little bit of weight on the 20mm edges made me feel like my fingers were going to snap in half, never thought I’d be doing hangs on them soon.

Think it’s more to having the confidence to try and better technique rather than any strength gain, but that suits me fine!

Two days off now. Gently gently with the Beastmaker!

Post edited at 16:33
GoneFishing111 25 Apr 2020
In reply to Robert Durran:

I cant use chisel grip either, im not sure why you would tbh.

Training it on a finger board is basically training back three with assistance from the straight index. Good for balancing out dominant index's i suppose.

And for some reason i am way stronger in half crimp than i am in a drag grip?

In reply to Christheclimber:

Get a pull up bar to rehab your elbow and do isometruc hangs on it, it’s sorting my long term tennis elbow. 

 1poundSOCKS 25 Apr 2020
In reply to GoneFishing111:

> I think perhaps his theory is that by doing the half crimp all of the tendons are being worked and strengthened so by doing that it’ll improve the strength of all the different grips

As I understand it, finger strength comes from your muscles. Obviously you want strong tendons or they tear, but they're just connective.

In reply to Christheclimber:

Hear hear, though I’ve only been injured for two years. Have you tried isometric hangs? 

 Iamgregp 25 Apr 2020
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Yes of course, I mean strong as in robust and, not strong like the strength of the muscles pulling on them.  I could have written that better.

After all we’re only as strong as the weakest link and as shown by the volume of finger injuries, this can often be the finger tendons!

In reply to Ramon Marin

> Hear hear, though I’ve only been injured for two years. Have you tried isometric hangs? 

Hi Ramon, no I haven’t tried isometric hangs, I’m not sure what they entail. Is it hanging off pull up bar with forearms facing in towards the body? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

In reply to joem:

> Pete whittaker had something on instagram where he was doing moves around his beastmaker with his feet on a hold this might be useful for a more route based approach. You would use a chair set back at by different amounts to change the intensity. 

Interesting way to use a Beastmaker. Do you or anyone else have any tips or programmes for this way? Thanks.

Chris

 luke glaister 30 Apr 2020
In reply to Christheclimber:

Have a look at neil Greshams Instagram account.  This last week he has been releasing brilliant finger board workouts. 1for boulder power

1 for short sport routes or long boulders.

1 for power endurance long sports routes

And tomorrow is trad endurance. 

I did his 2rd session yesterday and it was class. Destroyed me. 

Luke. 

In reply to luke glaister:

Hi Like, thanks for the info. I’ve looked at Neil’s Instagram Beastmaker workouts.

They look brutal!  I think I’ll have to adapt them..........

Chris


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