In reply to Lloydfletch:
> Not sure who started the abseil sub-section of this thread, but surely it is a totally different issue to bolts? Having ab stations doesn't change the crag as bolts would, which does seem to have been insinuated. I was at grochan in the pass recently, no bolts in sight but ab stations here and there which avoid a horrible descent. On a crag like that it's not about avoiding the mountain experience, it's just convenient and makes for more climbing, which for me is a good thing. It wasn't too busy though, so there was no danger of abbing over a leader. Having the stations there is fine, as long as people have a brain and use their judgement as to whether or not it's reasonable to ab at that moment.
FFIW it was Frank, he suggested " a few bolted/fixed stations". This confuses the issue of abseil stations , which are generally accepted now, with bolted ab points and those using fixed trad climbing gear.
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> As for bolts, bolts on one crag won't necessarily mean bolts on all routes. Pretty much everywhere else manage to have bolts and trad side by side. Admittedly where I've seen it it's mostly been granite crags which lend themselves bolts/trad mix, and have seen some shocking instances of bolts by cracks. It's just whether or not people think it's ok to sanitise some routes, as it would undoubtedly do. Could end up being a shame for future generations - in 200 years when all the honeypots are ruined with polish current esoterica could become a haven for trad climbers. On the other hand they'd undoubtedly see more use as sport crags, and provide potential relief to popular areas.
It might have been better to explain that these examples are not in the UK ( I hope ).
Here we have a consensus on bolting , painfully and painstakingly achieved and generally agreed on the crag, in the pub/cafe and in BMC meetings.
It works. I am amazed and saddened/despair when folk think it wise to discuss otherwise.
Post edited at 12:12