UKC

Euro's 2021

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 Sean Kelly 11 Jun 2021

Well I must admit to a sneaking feeling that Italy might be the Dark Horses of the tourament. Mancini has got them working well as a unit, and they are unbeaten in 27 games. England however are always overhyped. When they won the WC in '66 they were absolutely smashing teams. They beat Mexico 8-1  I think. Two 1-0 results recenty (one a penalty) is hardly convincing form. Too much back-passing which infuriates me no end. They have the players to run at teams but rarely do. Nothing terrifies the opposition more than a player that runs at them, they have to commit. Combinations up front are so important. Peters & Hurst, Shearer & Sherringham, Rooney & Owen. Kane & ?

Post edited at 19:57
 Hat Dude 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Italy have just won the national anthems

But they always do

 Fredt 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> When they won the WC in '66 they were absolutely smashing teams. They beat Mexico 8-1  I think. 

No they weren’t. They beat Mexico 2-0, France 2-0, and 0–0 against Uruguay.

Then they beat Argentina 1-0, Portugal 2-1, and West Germany 4-2. They were lucky to beat Portugal and West Germany.

And it was Hunt and Hurst up front.

Post edited at 20:30
 Babika 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Hat Dude:

> Italy have just won the national anthems

> But they always do

Disagree. They have the best tune but the Turks belted theirs out with more gusto. An impressive anthem display from both teams 

 Sean Kelly 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Fredt:

> No they weren’t. They beat Mexico 2-0, France 2-0, and 0–0 against Uruguay.

> Then they beat Argentina 1-0, Portugal 2-1, and West Germany 4-2. They were lucky to beat Portugal and West Germany.

> And it was Hunt and Hurst up front.

I'm talking in the build up matches played before the WC started. They played 8 friendly games in '66 and won 7and another against Germany (May '65). Also 10-0 against the US. And it was 6-1 against Norway. The Mexico game was in '61 when they won 8-0. Hurst and Peters, near & far post! I blame it on dementia setting in!

Post edited at 21:05
 Hat Dude 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Babika:

I just think Italy has the best ever anthem, sounds like it belongs in a comic opera

 Fredt 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Hurst didn’t get in the team until during the World Cup, and it was Greaves and Moore who scored against Norway.

 Sean Kelly 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Fredt:

Greaves was playing out of his skin and Ramsey drops him. Unthinkable! Italy on top tonight but lucky with rebounds etc.

Post edited at 21:26
 The Norris 11 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Italy look very impressive. Completely dominated the turks, who some pundits thought might be a bit of a dark horse for doing well.

 Babika 13 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Today's been a good day

After the horror of last night's match (watching it live - although outcome obviously a huge relief)  its good to be back at the fun times again. 

Disappointed North Macedonia folded tho, I'd like to see them get out of the group.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Greaves was playing out of his skin and Ramsey drops him. Unthinkable!

He wasn’t dropped, he got injured in the group stage game against France.

 Yanis Nayu 13 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Holland v Ukraine - what a game!

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Best game to watch ( some iffy defending tho).  Ukraine’s goals were ace. 

In reply to Hat Dude:

> Italy have just won the national anthems.

How cam you say that when Wales havn't even sung yet?

Post edited at 22:15
 streapadair 13 Jun 2021
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yes they have -

'Dad! Dad! Why don't you shaft Auntie Glad?'

or something like that. 

In reply to Sean Kelly:

> I'm talking in the build up matches played before the WC started. They played 8 friendly games in '66 and won 7and another against Germany (May '65). Also 10-0 against the US. And it was 6-1 against Norway. The Mexico game was in '61 when they won 8-0. Hurst and Peters, near & far post! I blame it on dementia setting in!

You can't possibly compare the two run-ins from 1966 to 2021 seriously. It was 55 years ago! The game was barely professional by today's standards and many now-decent national teams were rubbish. Friendlies meant something completely different. Today they are practice matches in which no-one wants to get injured. 

If you want to do a comparison then look at the form of all previous winners in recent competitions going into tournaments. There will certainly be a correlation between winning form and doing well but it is far from conclusive. Think Portugal 2016, Denmark 1992 and Greece 2004. Even Germany at the WC in 2014 weren't that rated going into the tournament, and the Dutch were hopeless in the run-up to 2010 where they made the final.

Having said that, I reckon England will struggle this time because of the draw which pits them up against teams they have not beaten in major knock-out stages for many years. Their progress to 1/4 finals and 1/2 finals for the last 30 years has been almost entirely due to fortunate draws pitting them against relatively middle-ranked teams.

Alan

In reply to Robert Durran:

> How cam you say that when Wales havn't even sung yet?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000wyx5

15.06 in.

When it comes to anthems the only real competition Land of My Fathers has is from Nkosi Sikelel'i Afrika

In reply to Dave Garnett:

> When it comes to anthems the only real competition Land of My Fathers has is from Nkosi Sikelel'i Afrika

Yes. I rate Russia, Germany and the USA highly too. Flower of Scotland is also good, but only when played slowly enough to be dignified and with the spine tingling second last note correctly flattened.

Post edited at 11:29
 Roadrunner6 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Goal of the tournament. Brilliant vision and execution.

 Tony Buckley 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Top notch.  I could hear the thud of thousands of cans of Irn-Bru being dropped and hitting the floor from Somerset.

T.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Good game. Bit frantic at times. Good save just then. Scotland at risk of pushing up too far and getting hit on the break. That guy who scored that goal - impressive player, never heard of him. 

 Roadrunner6 14 Jun 2021
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

Yeah, good game. Scotland have had chances to be fair.

 Iamgregp 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Kane & nobody-plays-two-strikers-anymore

In reply to Roadrunner6:

It looks like Scotland will be taken out of the euros  against their will.

I wonder if Sturgeon will campaign for a replay?

 cb294 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Hat Dude:

Only since the Soviet Union disintegrated....

Nothing beats the good old Soyuz nerushimyy, not even the new Russian anthem (even though the music is unchanged) or Fratelli d´Italia!

CB

 streapadair 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Pitiful.

O my Dalglish, and Jordan long ago.

Try to keep Kane/Sterling/Foden to single figures, lads.

 cb294 14 Jun 2021
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

Played for Sampdoria and AS Rome in Seria A and for Leverkusen and Leipzig in Bundesliga, no real surprise he seems to know where the goal is!

CB

 jimtitt 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Croatia became independent, it's the bloody English holding the Scots back

In reply to streapadair:

> Pitiful.

Not at all - we've already knocked England off the top spot in the group.

 Babika 14 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Come on Slovakia!  Good to see Hamsik still on form. 

Now of course if Poland had started with Fabianski......

 Roadrunner6 14 Jun 2021
In reply to skog:

I didn’t think Scotland played that badly. Moment of brilliance killed them but created some good chances.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Agree. And That Goal: deflection landed perfectly, but then some mega skill. 

Im also really really enjoying the lack of VAR!

 elsewhere 14 Jun 2021
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

VAR is in Switzerland, but it is far less intrusive.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/13/euro-2020-is-var-being-used-14759870/

 Sean Kelly 15 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Sometimes there is good fortune as with the initial deflection, but the way he sized up the situation before hitting and fighting the ball over the keeper but under the bar, and all from just inside the halfway line. Stunning breataking skill. Then others have an easy shot in front of goal and the ball flies into earth orbit.

 jimtitt 15 Jun 2021
In reply to Sean Kelly:

My wife asked why there wasn't a goalie!

 The Norris 15 Jun 2021
In reply to elsewhere:

I have to say from the games I have seen, the use of VAR has been really good. Seems much more sensible and appropriate than it has done in the premier league. Hope the changes are implemented in the club game.

In reply to The Norris:

> I have to say from the games I have seen, the use of VAR has been really good. Seems much more sensible and appropriate than it has done in the premier league. Hope the changes are implemented in the club game.

Have to agree there. Barely noticeable so far and nothing really controversial. Dutch close second goal for offside looked okay. Denmark penalty was dodgy but he missed it anyway.

Alan

 elsewhere 15 Jun 2021
In reply to The Norris:

VAR is impressively invisible. I wonder if it works because when the match referee thinks he should ask VAR in Switzerland he gets a quick decision. No delay while the match referee looks at replays, he just accepts what VAR panel say when he thinks they are worth asking.

 streapadair 15 Jun 2021
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

VAR went oddly missing when McTominey burst through deep into the penalty box and was taken out by a full-scale bodycheck. Not that a penalty  would have affected the result.

 Roadrunner6 16:36 Tue
In reply to streapadair:

> VAR went oddly missing when McTominey burst through deep into the penalty box and was taken out by a full-scale bodycheck. Not that a penalty  would have affected the result.

Come on he ran into the guy. The defender didn’t change his position - just turned sidewards. If he’d stepped across and done that there was a genuine call but not for holding your position.

 Roadrunner6 16:37 Tue
In reply to The Norris:

The only one I’ve not fully understood was Lukakus. He looked a mile off, I know the defender touched it but it was a ball through to him. Only saw it once though nor any analysis of it.

 Roadrunner6 18:52 Tue
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

3-0 Portugal. Not fair on Hungary, it's been a close game then 3 goals in the last 6 minutes.

They have a strong team Portugal, not unbeatable though.

In reply to Roadrunner6:

> 3-0 Portugal. Not fair on Hungary, it's been a close game then 3 goals in the last 6 minutes.

Following on from our VAR of earlier...

What happened with that last Ronaldo goal - miles offside and no goal check!

Alan

 Roadrunner6 23:35 Tue
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

I think it was checked. It looked off side and the ESPN commentators said it’d get ruled out and then they kicked off. There was certainly none of the usual VAR offside lines shown.

 Greenbanks 00:19 Wed
In reply to Roadrunner6:

Probably allowed the goal just to spite that Orban-fuelled racist sh*t that pours out of Hungary.

Politics & sport - don’t get me started...

 Roadrunner6 01:30 Wed
In reply to Greenbanks:

I saw they (Hungary) brought in some anti homosexuality education legislation or something today. 

 Maggot 17:28 Wed
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Great match at the moment, Wales.

Got to laugh at the Beeb ... interviewing Turkish fans ... kebab shop workers and barbers 😆🙃😆🙃

 rlrs 17:53 Wed
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Australia one-nil up at half time vs. Turkey.

In reply to Maggot:

Yes, enjoying it. I kept re-winding that penalty shout and was convinced the Turkey player hand balled it away - but the close revealed some elbow action. 

In reply to willgriggsonfire:

Wow!  Proper, full on game. 

 wbo2 18:59 Wed
In reply to willgriggsonfire:  Liked that.  Not welsh but liked to see Wales win.  Bales penalty was godawful but he put in a one heck of a shift for the team and is acting like a real captain.  He's gone up a few notches in my opinion

Post edited at 18:59
 Welsh Kate 19:05 Wed
In reply to wbo2:

Phew!

Tense at times, but what an exciting game. Cymru am byth!

 sjminfife 19:10 Wed
In reply to Welsh Kate:

Taking that penalty Bale forgot which game he was playing..."Three points will get us home"

But apart from that absolutely brilliant.

 Roadrunner6 19:24 Wed
In reply to sjminfife:

Good game that. Wales have got a decent team. 

That second goal could be crucial. 

 squarepeg 19:34 Wed
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Bet bale was feeling sheepish after the penalty... 

In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> Following on from our VAR of earlier...

> What happened with that last Ronaldo goal - miles offside and no goal check!

> Alan

I was at the match in Budapest and it looked onside from where I was. The replay on the stadium screens looked pretty conclusive. Great atmosphere in a full stadium.......I think it’s the only full capacity ground this Euros.

 Sean Kelly 09:23 Thu
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Ramsey goal is 2nd best goal of the tournament. The best is obvious!

 stevieb 09:58 Thu
In reply to Roadrunner6:

It looks like the refereeing and VAR is being handled much more flexibly in the Euros than in the PL.

In the PL, Davies and maybe others could’ve been sent off for that bust up.

In reply to wbo2:

> Bales penalty was godawful but he put in a one heck of a shift for the team and is acting like a real captain.  He's gone up a few notches in my opinion

Did you not watch Euro 2016 or the qualifiers for that and this tournament? Bale always shows up for Wales.

Wales.Golf.Madrid

In that order

 Roadrunner6 11:57 Thu
In reply to stevieb:

I'm surprised Rudiger wasnt banned tbh. that looked a bite.

 stevieb 12:01 Thu
In reply to Roadrunner6:

I think the French doctor should be banned 

 Yanis Nayu 12:26 Thu
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Ramsey goal is 2nd best goal of the tournament. The best is obvious!

The Bale penalty was the best conversion. 

 Roadrunner6 12:28 Thu
In reply to stevieb:

> I think the French doctor should be banned 

For sending the player back on after the head injury? I don't get how this is still happening. As a high school coach I'd be fired for it. Every year we do concussion training and return to play protocols. There was no way he should have gone back on.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> The Bale penalty was the best conversion. 

It was a loft conversion...

 stevieb 12:37 Thu
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> For sending the player back on after the head injury? 

Yes. It’s a small bit UEFAs fault, because they are not using head injury subs for this tournament, but the doctor has the biggest duty of care. 

 Sean Kelly 14:37 Thu
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Thinking back to the last England game, I remarked to a friend that Pickford by booting the ball upfield was continually giving away possession and that perhaps he ought to look at the distribution of Gordon Banks. He mostly threw the ball and nearly always found his own player unlike Pickford. His last two kicks found touch. I was screaming at the screen, this ain't rugby!

In reply to Tyler:

I thought he was fantastic in the Turkey game, but....

> Wales.Golf.Madrid

> In that order

Don't be an idiot, I thought, when he did that, when he was in employ of a club paying him zillions, as he still is. If behaviour was everything,  he should have been sacked on the spot.

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Re Pickford, totally agree. Top goalies (and many England players are in teams with top goalies) rarely boot it up field. 

 Yanis Nayu 16:20 Thu
In reply to stevieb:

Don’t they have 5 subs though? 

 stevieb 16:32 Thu
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

In rugby, they allow temporary substitutes to allow proper head injury assessment. Football is trialling a solution (not at the euros), though looking at the detail, it’s not as straightforward. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/16/concussion-substitute-trials-get-go-ahead-and-fa-ready-to-act-in-cup

 Roadrunner6 19:11 Thu
In reply to Sean Kelly:

There was arguments over it within the England team. With the skill of the defenders these days there’s just no need to go long. I love the new goal kick rule so you can pass within your box. 

 Roadrunner6 20:52 Thu
In reply to stevieb:

Eriksen has had an ICD fitted, Daley blind plays with one so maybe he’ll play again. He’s young enough to try to come back.

 Babika 23:36 Thu
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

> Re Pickford, totally agree. Top goalies (and many England players are in teams with top goalies) rarely boot it up field. 

Agree. Pickford seems particularly weak at this.

But having watched the Gazza goal from 96 for the zillions time tonight I hadn't appreciated that it started with a massive hoof up the field from Seaman. 

Now if that could happen tomorrow...?

 mike reed 19:16 Fri

And another thing.....

Female pundits.... please No!!!!

Guessing most watch the euro’s on tv, but I’m listening via BBC sounds and I have to say, the female pundits are awful. Karen Carney on Belgium v Denmark was dire. Cliche after tired cliche.

I’m sorry, but I want to hear Waddle, Sutton, Nevin, etc, ex international pro’s! I accept this may be a dated view, but let the men pundit for the men’s game, and the lassies do the women’s game....please. 

BBC being too ‘PC’ for its own good. 

 john arran 19:36 Fri
In reply to mike reed:

> I accept this may be a dated view

Too right!

 abr1966 19:49 Fri
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Here we go.....my punt....

Scotland 2

England 1

In reply to abr1966:

Good game so far. Scotland way more organised and less frantic (then their last game).

Post edited at 20:41
 jimtitt 20:43 Fri
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

You must be watching a different game!

 Toccata 20:53 Fri
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Not a big football fan but enjoying this one. Just back from London with a lot of pissed (but well-behaved) Scots milling about. Even if we lose I’d like Scotland to score.

 The Norris 21:30 Fri
In reply to abr1966:

Kane hasn't performed very well again, the system doesnt really seem to fit his style of play, a bit too much passing around and not enough crosses.

Cue him coming off!

 PaulJepson 21:51 Fri
In reply to mike reed:

What about Alex Scott? Karen Carney is decent too.

There are some awful male pundits. Martin Keown, Roy Keane, etc. 

I think if pundits were judged on their skill as pundits rather than on the pitch 30 years ago, there would probably be a lot more women and a lot less men. I rate Dublin though, great pundit. 

 Yanis Nayu 21:52 Fri
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

Good in the sense of being even. Pretty uninspiring and average quality though. 

 abr1966 21:52 Fri
In reply to The Norris:

...agree!

Scots happy to not be beaten by the English...

England to still go through but Scots happy to go out as long as not beaten by England?!

 Sean Kelly 21:54 Fri
In reply to Sean Kelly:

A very negative England performance, but the best player was probably Pickford. Stirling was outstanding at back-passing. At least Scotland looked like they wanted to win the game. Unlucky not to be awarded a penalty for stepping on Stirling, and Grealish fell over as usual. They were obviously playing for a clean sheet!

 PaulJepson 22:03 Fri
In reply to Sean Kelly:

What's all this about England's being favourites for the Euros? I've heard it a couple of times now and no idea where it's come from! I would say Holland, Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal and possibly even this weak Spain team are more likely.

In reply to PaulJepson:

> What's all this about England's being favourites for the Euros? I've heard it a couple of times now and no idea where it's come from! I would say Holland, Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal and possibly even this weak Spain team are more likely.

Exactly. They are not even better than Scotland.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Scotland managed the game well, stoped England from playing their game. Scotland made England look leggy and bereft of ideas (coz they got closed down quickly).  

In reply to PaulJepson:

> What's all this about England's being favourites for the Euros? I've heard it a couple of times now and no idea where it's come from! I would say Holland, Germany, France, Belgium, Portugal and possibly even this weak Spain team are more likely.

You’ve missed out Italy (who could win it).

 stevieb 22:24 Fri
In reply to PaulJepson:

What with the Italians scoring for fun, I’m hoping that we’re taking on their traditional role - bore our way out of the group then keep going all the way to the final. 

 PaulJepson 22:28 Fri
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

Doh! Yes they've looked very strong. Them or France I think.

In reply to PaulJepson:

> Doh! Yes they've looked very strong. Them or France I think.

Yes, or as stevieb says (it’s often how it happens).  Kane needs rested. We flounder along with different players upfront like Calvert-Lewin and Rashford.  Kane comes back for the last few games, fresh and Roy of the Rovers style and wins us the cup. 
On a more boring note: our players upfront are used to different styles. The TV pundits where whaffling about ‘Kane wasn’t getting the balls to him’, but Fodden and Sterling don’t normally play that style - it’s small intricate passing to the feet rather than crosses  etc. Few players did much (Pickers did and I had a go at him the other day !)

 Roadrunner6 23:12 Fri
In reply to PaulJepson:

> What about Alex Scott? Karen Carney is decent too.

> There are some awful male pundits. Martin Keown, Roy Keane, etc. 

> I think if pundits were judged on their skill as pundits rather than on the pitch 30 years ago, there would probably be a lot more women and a lot less men. I rate Dublin though, great pundit. 

Keane is brilliant. No mixing it. He sees the game so simply it's brilliant. I think it's why he struggles as a coach as his tolerance for not doing the basics is zero. I think too many try to make it too complex and Keane just calls out the basics like not closing down, turning your back to block a shot etc. And he's right. 

I like the female pundits, I think they are far better than they were but the game is a much higher standard, much more professional so they are in a better position to commentate. 

I like Lee Dixon. We have Rob Green over here, he started off poorly but I like him now. Evra's good but he's bat shit crazy and gets totally overly emotional. 

 Roadrunner6 23:18 Fri
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

> Scotland managed the game well, stoped England from playing their game. Scotland made England look leggy and bereft of ideas (coz they got closed down quickly).  

This is modern international football though. Lots of teams are strong, fit, well drilled, good shape, decent players. It's tough. Sweden did it this week to Spain.

I watched it on multi view on ESPN. It's just one camera down the field for the main view and you could see how well drilled Sweden were. They were almost like a Table Fussball team, they literally just slid back and to across the field. quick short presses and back in their shape, constant communication. It was brilliant to watch. I want to get a copy to show the high school team I coach.  

The general standard these days is much higher, the days of beating Turkey 8-0 or whatever it was back in the 80's are over for the most part. It's the old cliche of 'no easy games at this level'. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Great performance from Scotland. I was worried about the potential for 3-0 or 4-0 to England, and when Stones got a free header and hit the post within 10 mins I though our chances of escaping a drubbing were slim. But the longer the match went on, the more Scotland got into the game, and overall Scotland looked more comfortable with the ball, and more likely to score by the end. England’s confidence and invention just seemed to drain. If we had a good goal scorer, this Scotland team would be a real threat. As it is- need to beat the World Cup runners up to qualify, having failed to score twice…. Oh well, I’d have taken that if you’d given it at the start of the tournament…

 Roadrunner6 01:04 Sat
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

This is a decent Scotland team, Robertson, McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour, Tierney, Adams are all established premier league players, work hard, good shape. I thought it was far too negative after the first game when they played pretty well. Football is fine margins, this week Stones' header bounces out and its game on, last week a lucky break and a guy kills them off from 50 yards with a wonder strike. 

McTominay at the back is interesting. He's comfortable on the ball, tall and a fantastic athlete. He could turn into a top class center back.

Post edited at 01:05
 Myfyr Tomos 08:34 Sat
In reply to PaulJepson:

Oi! Wot about us? We're still in there. C'mon Cymru. 😜

In reply to Roadrunner6:

Re Scotland: I’m not too sure about them being too negative. In their first game I thought they went for it too much and hence not as controlled.  England do seem to struggle against organised teams who are prepared to sit back. 

 stevieb 11:10 Sat
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

I think RR meant the reviews were too negative. 
In two games Scotland have had 30 shots, 5 on target, 0 goals. Scotland haven’t been negative, they’re just not good in front of goal.

In reply to stevieb:

I’m utterly choked with hay fever and not thinking straight etc. That makes sense. 

 Phil1919 12:30 Sat
In reply to mike reed:

I'd vote for more PC. The fans should represent both sexes equally, tickets available at a price everyone can afford, and a representative racial mix. Water down the drunken rabble.

 wbo2 12:50 Sat
In reply to Roadrunner6: Oh come on, Keane is desparately bad at being a pundit.  Just rolls out the same moany , whiny cliches again and again.  Ditto Jamie Carragher.  Not enough  energy, not enough passion, not good enough blah blah blah.  Totally designed to get them on the Daily Mail sportspages

Pat Nevin is good, Chris Sutton, and plenty of others, male and female.

The problem with Kane isn't that he needs resting, he's simply not very fit at this point (injured and then finished the season at dysfuntional Tottenham), and there isn't really a like for like replacement in the squad.  Certainly not Rashford, and Foden and Sterling have been playing in a team where they haven't even been playing a centre forward.

I think Wales have a better frontline with their best players out, and they also understand how they work with each other

I'm liking Italy (Immobile! What a name), France, Belgium , Netherlands. 

 Roadrunner6 13:00 Sat
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

> Re Scotland: I’m not too sure about them being too negative. In their first game I thought they went for it too much and hence not as controlled.  England do seem to struggle against organised teams who are prepared to sit back. 

Yeah I mean peoples views on them. Football is all about results so it colors our view on the game. Look at England 90, we look back as though we were great. We just escaped the group stage with a narrow win over Egypt, probably deserved to lose to Belgium (they hit the woodwork constantly), and needed a late penalty to save the game against Cameroon.

 Roadrunner6 13:09 Sat
In reply to wbo2:

You are having a laugh about Wales?

bale has been bang average, James and Wilson are squad players, Ramsay can’t get a game at an average Juve, Moore isn’t that good at all.

sterling, Foden, Kane, Rashford, Sancho, Grealish and CL are individually and collectively much stronger. England aren’t playing well but the attacking talent they have is pretty much unrivaled. The problem is supply and playing two defensive midfielders and not just taking the game to teams. We’re so cagey. 

 Roadrunner6 13:21 Sat
In reply to wbo2:

Italy haven’t played anyone yet.

belgium look solid but squeezed the win against Denmark. France look good. Holland likewise too early.

its early days I don’t think you can take anything from group matches when few teams are really challenged. Things change fast and the tournament can be over in a game. Look at United in the Europa, destroyed Roma then shit against villa real. All this talk about form and momentum is always funny to see as there are plenty of examples of it meaning nothing. 

 wbo2 14:58 Sat
In reply to Roadrunner6:  No., not a laugh at all. They look like they have a better plan to me.  They don't have strengh in depth , and they might not be individually as good, but they fit. and know how to work to each other

Apart from Kane none of those players are traditional centre forwards, or even play as centreforwards.  Swapping Kane for a.n.other doesn't work, so you need to rearrange the entire team a la City

In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Yeah I mean peoples views on them. Football is all about results so it colors our view on the game. Look at England 90, we look back as though we were great. We just escaped the group stage with a narrow win over Egypt, probably deserved to lose to Belgium (they hit the woodwork constantly), and needed a late penalty to save the game against Cameroon.

I seem the same thing in the football as in pretty much everything else:

England are massively overconfident and strut about like they have a chance of winning things they've not got a hope in hell of winning.  They are just another fairly good mid-rank team.

Scotland don't have enough self confidence and are actually a fair bit better than they think.   The way people talk you'd think they were hopeless, but like England and Wales they're actually an OK mid-rank team.

Post edited at 15:38
 Roadrunner6 15:59 Sat
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

That may be the most idiotic post. Greece won a European championship. Denmark won a european championship having not even qualified for it. Portugal won it last time with 3 draws with Iceland, Hungary and Austria (I think), finished 3rd and went on to win the tournament. The history of this tournament is crazy so anyone ruling out any team is silly. 

did you watch yesterday?! Overconfidence? England look scare of their own shadow.

Post edited at 16:22
 Roadrunner6 16:01 Sat
In reply to wbo2:

Eh CL is every bit of the traditional center forward?

france just drew with Hungary. This is the most open championship in decades. 
 

England are either seen as god awful over confident or world beaters when they are just a decent team, with good attacking players. We’ve 4 points from two games in a 3 game group and it’s the end of the world..

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

> I see the same thing in the football as in pretty much everything else

😀

 Wainers44 18:09 Sat
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Germany are good...surprisingly....not....

In reply to Wainers44:

Really enjoying Portugal v Germany, great game and plenty of goals.

 Roadrunner6 18:38 Sat
In reply to Wainers44:

> Germany are good...surprisingly....not....

Played 1 lost 1. First game they got away with a 1-0 defeat. France tore them apart and some how Rudiger wasn’t banned.

Now  after looking two good teams one of France or Portugal could possibly go out. 3rd places teams can go through though.

Post edited at 18:41
 Babika 19:14 Sat
In reply to Christheclimber:

I'm enjoying it all!

The pleasure of watching an international football tournament with excited fans after 16 months of s**t is wonderful. Come on England, Scotland and Wales - we can all make it to the round of 16.

More goals from everyone please- Portugal and Germany seem to have got the message.

 Roadrunner6 19:21 Sat
In reply to Babika:

Shaping up for an excellent last round of games. I’m well enjoying it. 

In reply to Roadrunner6:

> That may be the most idiotic post.

Thanks.  It's a tough competition but I do my best.

> Greece won a European championship. .... The history of this tournament is crazy so anyone ruling out any team is silly. 

My point was about the media and the effect the media has on expectations and self confidence.   The media fuel a narrative that England are brilliant and quite likely to win Euro / World Cup and that Scotland only got in by a fluke and have no hope of getting to the next round.   

The reality is that England aren't as good as the media make out and Scotland are a bit better than the media make out.

 RobAJones 21:37 Sat
In reply to Roadrunner6:

> Yeah I mean peoples views on them. Football is all about results so it colors our view on the game. Look at England 90, we look back as though we were great. We just escaped the group stage with a narrow win over Egypt, probably deserved to lose to Belgium (they hit the woodwork constantly), and needed a late penalty to save the game against Cameroon.

On the other hand we were either a deflected goal or a penalty shoot out away from a final. It would have been against an Argentina side  beaten by Cameroon (pleased you don't see "tackles" like that any more) managed to finish third in their group and who "won" their quarter and semi finals on penalties. I agree results are what people remember and even then top level football was about small details.

I thought they did a professional job against Croatia. Like most I thought the display against Scotland was disappointing, but the result all but ensures progress which probably contributed to the second half performance in particular.

Post edited at 21:54
 RobAJones 21:48 Sat
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

> The reality is that England aren't as good as the media make out and Scotland are a bit better than the media make out.

I'd have agreed previously, but I do think England have the players now to justify it to some exetent. CL final? I have no argument that Scotland played well, possibly could have won and England played poorly. A bit like a Championship teams against one of the big 6 in the FA Cup? There is a reason Scotland are the third lowest ranked team. I don't remember any lack of media hype for Scotland  in '78. 

 Andy Hardy 22:05 Sat
In reply to RobAJones:

> A bit like a Championship teams against one of the big 6 in the FA Cup? 

What about League 1 teams?  

“Will Griggs On Fire

Your defence is terrified “

(sorry Man City fans, again, not)

And this is why football is brilliant: a ‘lesser’ side can get organised, play their hearts out, have a wee bit of luck, and slay the giant. Fine margins can be overcome. 

 RobAJones 09:38 Sun
In reply to willgriggsonfire:

> What about League 1 teams?  

> “Will Griggs On Fire

That season he was already a proven goalscorer against "top flight" opposition, so I didn't think the comparison with Scotland was fair. 

> And this is why football is brilliant: a ‘lesser’ side can get organised, play their hearts out, have a wee bit of luck, and slay the giant. Fine margins can be overcome. 

In one off games, quite often, much less likely to get to and win the final, but Greece managed it.  I'm still dreaming of Wales doing the same. 


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