UKC

After a great holiday at Ogwen Valley. (as beginner trad)
The day after climbing Cwn Cneifion, We where going to climbing Idwal Slabs.
Got to the bottom of the slab and there were 8 people on pitch 2.
Got ready to climb, Got racked up, rolled the rope out and then looked at my partner.
He was taking off his gear and putting it in his bag?
I asked what he was doing?
He answered "I don't what to climbing in a jam".
I packed up and walked back to the car, not questioning his decision.

We had planned this trip for two years, picket out what we were going to climb.
The weather was perfect with no clouds.
We had had 3 days of perfect routes.
Being back in home, it started to bug me. Why?

Have you ever had to stop before you started?

In reply to resqueman:














It happens sometimes ;(

You're lucky that it happened at a crag with a short walk in in fair weather

In reply to resqueman:
Like the other poster it happens I have had it happen to me and I have done it to others. In my case it was a jam there must a have been about 10 people on the route. We ended up scrambling instead that day so was still worth it as we took in a couple of summits etc.

Another time we got to the base of a winter route, geared up I started up first pitch and my mate said, I'm not feeling this.

Don't let it bug you, it happens.

In reply to resqueman:

why not find another route, go for a walk, scramble, to just bin the day is pretty poor and would render them an ex climbing partner.

In reply to Alan M:



I'm still smarting about the time that I drove for 3 hours and then completed a long walk in through rain at valley level and a whiteout above the snowline before my partner got the heeby-jeebies

In reply to resqueman:

With any of my regular climbing mates there seems to be an unwritten rule that if you don't want to climb you'll still belay for the rest of the day. Although we tend to climb mostly on single pitch crags.

In reply to resqueman:

I've driven 2 and a half hours to climb and had my partner say they have a dentist appointment after 1 route.

I assumed it was because I'm a c*nt; but you've got me questioning them now...

In reply to resqueman:

I'd possibly have suggested looking for something else interesting to do?

I think it's commendable that you didn't question his decision.

In reply to resqueman:

I don't get why you didn't do another route.

In reply to resqueman:

Completely unreasonable......I would want to kill him!

In reply to resqueman:
Happened to me once that I can remember, at Craig an Dubh Loch, I ended up soloing Theseus groves (summer version) while he sunbathed by the lochan.

In reply to resqueman:

Just be thankful that you aren't married to the bugger! Not that I'm bitter, nor investigating divorce solicitors.....

In reply to resqueman:

Confess to refusing even to belay on one occasion,

Warton Main Quarry

the debris at bottom of the big routes and the hanging choss caused me to wimp out, think we found something less intimidating on RHS of quarry IIRC

In reply to resqueman:

It's quite understandable not wanting to queue for ever on one of the Idwal slabs routes. However, I don't know why you both didn't agree to look for another, quieter, route to do. It happens.

In reply to resqueman:

I've had partners suddenly refuse to climb once or twice, because of fears or just not feeling right that day. I respect that and think it's probably best if they don't climb that day, in that case. I've done it once to a partner too.

I know your case is different, as is the case above of the partner with a dental appointment: those 2 occurrences seems less excusable IMO. (For example, if a route was too crowded for me, I'd certainly either suck it up and do the route, or suggest doing a different route).

In reply to resqueman:

Yeah, it happens.

Walking in to the Italian ridge of the Matterhorn my partner simply refused to carry on as he felt it was too loose. No amount of carrots or sticks would shift him, and he was a far better climber than me.

Really annoying at the time, when you've invested so much time and energy getting to the route. But I guess it happens a fair bit in the Alps when 1 partner gets spooked.

In reply to abseil:


Yes. If choosing a popular route either a) get there early or b) anticipate and have a contingency plan - then no-ones taken by surprise

In reply to resqueman:

I went to a crag with my partner and she said no. She's got no sense of adventure that woman, I had even brought a condom so it wasn't as though she was at risk of being up the duff!!!

In reply to resqueman:

Only once, many years ago towards the end of a group trip to Chamonix. I was much the worst rock climber in the group and it was unusually warm (for those days) so rock was all there was: we had tried the Chèré Couloir in the dark and retreated because it just wasn't frozen. Maybe we were just out of our depth but we seemed to have more than a few upsetting experiences.

Towards the end of the trip, two of the party had been up in the Aiguille Rouges to do something fairly hard and the plan was for me to go up on the first cable car the next morning (they had bivied near the Index) and do the Chapelle de la Gliere with one of them. They had had rather an epic with lots of rockfall and walking round on the scree to the start of the route, my mate just sat down and said he did't want to climb anything so we went back down. Can't blame him we were all a bit frazzled by then.

In reply to Babika:


Was climbing in the Swiss alps once, with a perfectly competent technical climber, who was just overawed by the situation. It was awkward ground, not very hard but continuous low risk, where there was no real way of protecting the situation for an extended period. When we got back down to Sass Fee, he simply said "Simon, I don't want to carry on, I am too frightened by these Alpine situations".

I had vast admiration for him being totally honest, and having the courage of his cowardice. No pretence that it was bad weather or conditions, he was just overawed by the situation and was prepared to admit the fact. It was a damn nuisance, but we are still on good terms and I recognised that anybody has the right to turn back just because they don't want to continue.

Completely different if they invent spurious reasons to cover their fear.

In reply to Simon4:


Too right. I have no problem refusing to do a route that looks like it'll end in tears. I point-blank refused to abseil into Blind Bay, Pembroke to do the perma-damp E5 overhanging corner, with someone who could just-about-maybe lead E5 on a good day. No ta, I said, let's do something else.

But yes, let's do something else. I wouldn't give up climbing for the weekend just because I didn't like the look of a particular route. I'd say "how about we give Blind Bay a miss today and do something with less risk dangling and prusiking over/in the cold, cold, sea for the rest of the day". When you say you're going climbing with someone, there's a degree of commitment. You may have to scale-down your ambitions if you're not both up for the route you had in your sights, but in my view if the conditions are good and you're fit and well, it's pretty much a duty to do *something* even if you're truthfully not that keen.


It isn't the right partnership IMO if you're bullshitting each other like that, probably best to bin it anyway.

In reply to resqueman:

I was the one to get spooked before. Had a long and hazardous scramble to get to the start of a route that went two or three pitches up a big face. I wasn't happy. I was certainly intimidated by the face but something else was nagging in the back of my mind. My partner led the first pitch. I tied on then shouted up that I'd 'bottled it'. My partner was understanding and started prepping to ab of the first belay. Then he shouted down that he didn't have enough rope to ab off and bring the rope back. I had an eventful scramble to get another rope. Some time later he was down. If I hadn't 'bottled it' we would have found ourself at the top of the route, in the middle of a big face with no viable route off. I learned two lessons that day. 1) get to know a new climbing partner before tackling anything committing with them, and 2) trust your instincts even if it means 'bottling it' and letting your partner down.

In reply to resqueman:

I have been with friends who have done and said this. I have done and said it myself. On one ski tour I left five other to go on without me and I took a valley retreat. I respect my companions decisions.
I have been climbing for 50 years and am still alive. Nobody gets it right all the time but listen to your inner voice.
Dave H
Ps on the ski trip there were five empty spaces on the flight home.......they took three days to get out from the snowed in hut.

In reply to resqueman:


Over 20 replies and no one has said anything about this yet?!

In reply to resqueman: I once declined to queue at the bottom of Spartan Slab. I think there were about four parties waiting in front of us, and the rate that the party on pitch one were moving suggested that we'd be there at least two hours before getting on the rock. I did have a good reason (for me) not to be too late home.

We couldn't easily have done a different route: SS was pretty much at the limit of our combined capability (me being the weaker). I don't think the guide book we had at the time listed any others on the Slabs in our grade range.

We could have bailed to somewhere else nearby and done something less popular and/or at a lower grade, but by that time my partner seemed to have given me up as a bad job. IIRC they were driving, so the atmosphere on the way back was a little frosty.

It wasn't a day trip: we'd done North Face Route on BEM the day before and stayed overnight. However, it turned out that they had wanted to do Agag's Groove as well, and blamed me for being slow on NFR for us not having time to get it done.

Although I did feel bad for spoiling their weekend somewhat, I do think in retrospect that if our situations had been reversed then I wouldn't have wanted to be climbing with someone who really didn't want to be there.

In reply to resqueman:

I've done it once and once only to my partner. We'd decided to do the N. Face of the Plan and as I approached the place we were going to bivvy before attacking it next day. I felt more and more reluctant. Martin said " you don't want to do this route, do you?" No, I responded. "So don't let's " Martin replied. It is the only time I've turned back with absolutely no reason and the next day was perfect. Was it bad vibes or what? In any case Martin detected it and never said a word of reproach. For me it was an example of how a partnership should work. And we made up for it by doing the N Face of the Badile.

In reply to jcw:

Also had this feeling. Look at it one way, if you jumped on the route you wouldn't have had much commitment. This might have led to a mistake and through to an epic.

In reply to resqueman:

If a partner gets spooked there is no point in trying to push them. It can happen to any of us. Many years ago two mates of mine went to the Himalayas. On about their second day of climbing following a week's walk in they were narrowly missed by an avalanche, and avalanche activity generally was unseasonably high.

One of them completely lost his nerve and just wanted to go home, leaving the the with no option other than to abort the whole trip.

They have never spoken to each other again.

But as has been said these things can happen.

In reply to resqueman:

Myself and 3 mates were climbing in two teams in a pretty remote area in New Zealand (5 hour drive and 6 hour walk in) to climb two different routes over 3 days. After a successful first day from both party's one of my mates woke up the next morning and just said "nope, sorry, not feeling it today". His partner was pretty gutted to say the least, but then found out they'd accidentally climbed a 6 pitch first ascent on their first day so were fairly stoked after all.

In reply to Removed User:


What do you think should be said?

Genuine question.

In reply to resqueman:

I went up to do Parsley Fern Gully relatively early in my winter career, met a guy on the way in who was going to solo Sinister Gully, III 4, who asked if I wanted to climb as a pair on his route - ok. Walked up to the base of Sinister Gully and expected him to take the lead - his route etc. No, he was happy for me to lead the first (crux) pitch - interesting. What gear had he got (I hadn't got any for Parsley Fern)? A few nuts and one ice screw. OK, ish. I placed the ice screw from the top of the approach slope, at the base of the steep section and wobbled up the pitch on my less than technical axes. Phew! I sorted a belay. A voice from below asked if the rest looked ok - yes I said, it was a steep but easy snow gully. The voice from below came back,
"I don't fancy it, chuck down my gear and rope and I will be off then."
And so I did the rest of the route on my own, wondering what on earth had just happened.

Another time I walked into Rhossili carrying all the kit for 2 people - and my partner declared as it was in shadow she wasn't climbing there, and we walked back to the car and drove to 3 cliffs. We are divorced now.......

In reply to resqueman:


This is why you didn't climb that route. A sensible decision! But you should have gone to do something else instead. Sounds like he just wasn't in the mood for a climb, but wasn't able to tell you in a mature manner.

In reply to philhilo:


I think I'd have tied the rope off to the screw and left it there!

In reply to resqueman:

Anyone who has climbed for a while will have had days when they just didn't fancy it or got spooked by a particular place on the day. I certainly have, and it's much better to bottle it before you start than to lose it somewhere complicated, just be grateful you hadn't just abseiled into Great Zawn or similar.

That said, climbing doesn't get much less threatening than seconding a route on Idwal Slabs, so I'd be wondering what was really going on.

In reply to resqueman:

I think if your partner gets a bad feeling about a route, then you have to respect that, however frustrating it might be. It's happened to me and I've done it to other people. Best to take it out on an inanimate object in private later. I once had to walk away from the foot of my dream route in the Alps having finally found it in condition the eigth time I'd been up to do it.......

In reply to Robert Durran:

The night I fell off and broke my thumb in 2008 my partner had a bad feeling about the evening. He decided not to say anything as he thought I'd have been annoyed if he'd said he didn't want to climb. With what happened next I kinda wish he had but I'm thankfully still here and just have a slightly wonky thumb and a somewhat more paranoid approach to climbing than I did back then. That said, if he'd said something I suspect I may have dismissed him. These days I'm much more likely to listen to him or indeed my own head saying bad/good idea.

I don't think we've ever turned around straight away on arriving at a crag. In our early days of doing multi-pitch routes we turned up at the foot of Sou'Wester Slabs in Arran and discovered two other parties gearing up. Despite arriving last we were geared up and ready to go before both parties and probably should just have gone past them but were too polite. After an hour of waiting little progress had been made and we gave up and carried the rack over 3 Corbetts instead. We'd stupidly only taken a photocopy of one route description with us so didn't have a plan B. These days we usually have several alternative plans and make sure if we're heading for something in Classic/Hard Rock that we get ourselves to the crag early!

We've had days where neither of us can be bothered but that tend to be mutual. E.g. the day after doing Centurion we'd slogged into Aonach Dubh in blistering heat, did one route, then lay around at the bottom of the crag for a bit in the sun trying to summon some motivation to climb something else but none came so we sacked it for the day. It was too hot to climb (yes, it does happen in Scotland occasionally!!) and after a long day the day before we were tired and more up for chilling in the sun than rock climbing.

I once mutineed in the Northern Corries. Blowing a gale in the car park, and very reluctant to go out with a very keen partner. I was saved when the window of the car next door imploded in the wind. Ended up agreeing that Abernathy Forest was a rather more congenial place to spend the day.

In reply to Removed User:


Because it does not matter. I have been spooked out of a summit day, having lost my nerve following a crevasse fall the day before. Would have not made any difference if we had just driven down to the Bernese Oberland for the weekend, rather than having planned the whole thing for months.

I have also bailed from a shorter trad climb after the crux pitch, again just not feeling up for it even though the remaining pitches were well below my technical limit. Since my partner was not leading at that level, that was it for the day. I will only consider whether I am in a state of mind to justify the risk I am going to undertake. Tiredness, nervousness, stress levels, ability to concentrate all are valid factors, but planning time wasted does not count.

That said, backup plans (other routes or other activities) are always a good idea.

CB

In reply to resqueman:





You obviously didn't plan very well if you expected the Idwal Slabs in perfect weather to be anything other than mobbed.

In reply to resqueman:

I'm not sure this has happened to me in quite that way but the disappointment would be intense and if I couldn't do anything else I'd be very pissed off. I'd most likely go off and do Idwal Staircase on my own as compensation. That's one of my favourites anyway.
I don't understand the bit about planning for two years. You just get in the car and go there don't you?

In reply to resqueman:

Good thread. Partner and I have a good balance I think. No one gets fussed about the other not being keen/not climbing route, with that said, if either of us is mad keen for a route- we usually put on a smile and climb it regardless. Well my partner does anyway! Always happy to belay though if not feeling the route! Thank you!

Went down to baggy with an occasional climbing partner, my 3rd time there-whilst abbing into what was thought to be Vdiff scrattling crack in B2boots-turned out to be the E1 4c to the right I smirk up, chuckling to myself and say 'you're gonna enjoy leading that'! Partner has a wobbly, ranting that I'm no one to be telling him what to lead and when. Getting too competitive and what is my problem.

Well, que the ascending rope drama, me declining to climb chossy top slab of ben/marion if I still didn't know what the freak out was about earlier and not climbed together again.

In reply to Simon4:

Really interesting thread. Makes me feel better about refusing even to leave the Couvercle hut to do the normal route with Mrs B on the Droites a few years ago. It was our first route of the summer and I had probably read too much about it in the guidebook, but I still felt very bad as the weather next day was (of course) perfect as we trudged back down the Mer de Glace. As it happens this was the same day that Roger Payne (and others) were killed on the Tacul. Fortunately she did the peak a week or so later (without me) on her way to completing the 4000ers last year. A few weeks of (very) steady stuff to get my head in gear, and that summer ended on a real high by traversing the Matterhorn (up the Italian Ridge, down the Hornli). Time to slay a few dragons by hopefully getting up the Droites in a couple of weeks....

In reply to resqueman:

See that pointy thing on the end of your leg, that is under the control of the squishy thing between your ears. Use the squishy thing between your ears to swing the pointy thing on the end of your leg very very hard at the thing your mate sits on. Then do it again. And again.

Next time consider choosing a different route, there are lots. Or a different crag, there are lots. Or perhaps best in your case, a different partner, there are lots.


Sure, rain, sea, heat, sickness, the fear, late for a flight, midges, hangover, the whole crag had fallen down (this has happened twice now!)... On most of those occasions I've gone on to do something good, often climbing related with the rest of the day.
jk

In reply to zimpara:

If you had abbed into the wrong route, poorly equipped, without prior discussion about who was leading etc, & smirked/chuckled about me now having to lead you up an E1 4c (I presume it's easy climbing with very little protection) I think I'd have been tempted to pull up the rope & leave you down there. Perhaps your labrador could lead it for you.

In reply to resqueman:

I went to a country and my partner said no. He hooked up with a girl on the 2nd day and I spent the week playing gooseberry. Not a route was climbed.