In reply to UKC News: But Bear you big frilly pair of Girls Pants, If you are supposed to be leading why is there a toprope at 1.43 ???
Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC)19 Apr 2012
In reply to UKC News: You know I think he's a sound fella who has seen a niche and exploited it. For some younger people he is a bit of an inspiration so what's wrong with that ? So there is a fair bit of 'toffee' being banded around about him staying in hotels and using a top rope etc etc etc but hey ho good luck to the guy.
He doesn't claim to be good. He just says that the climbing makes him feel alive. There is some serious rock-snobbery here. Who really cares if he's top-roping or not doing it in rock shoes? Its a promotional video if you don't like it don't watch it. I swear, some of you lot must just spend your weekends standing at the bottom of crags looking down at people who don't climb as well as you. Stop your whinging.
In reply to llamaglama: Im not sure its snobbery. I think its a bit crap thats hes trailing the rope to make it look like a very bold lead. Its just odd. Personally I think he must do a lot of his telly trying to supress a smile and visible tongue protrusion from side of cheek.
In reply to UKC News: Given the worries about rising obesity, lack of fitness and general lack of adventure seeking mentalities of the younger generations, I think the Hollywood-isations of any outdoor activity is only going to beneficial. I certainly don't want to give the impression that you'll be tutted upon by other know-it-alls if you venture outside for the first time.
In reply to jonathan shepherd:
Technically he's wearing Approach shoes! This means he's well equipped to get to the crag AND scramble up it!
I can guess the footage we don't see is a lot of 'scrambling' and dogging... (and not in the biblical sense) Although that may prove MORE entertaining...
Personally I think shame on him! Its bad enough he does stay in his hotels etc. And OK so he does inspire kids to get out and do stuff (this does upset me, poor role model) but to blatantly have a Top Rope on his spread-eagle crack, and a beautifully black looking rope in the background of another shot... poor effort Mr. Producer/Editor.
We all have our views on the guy, mostly negative (there are a few fans hiding behind their hands at the moment) but this is poor effort, at least fake it without letting everyone know!
Remember... Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
> (In reply to UKC News)
> He doesn't claim to be good. He just says that the climbing makes him feel alive. There is some serious rock-snobbery here. Who really cares if he's top-roping or not doing it in rock shoes? Its a promotional video if you don't like it don't watch it. I swear, some of you lot must just spend your weekends standing at the bottom of crags looking down at people who don't climb as well as you. Stop your whinging.
Get real, I've been looking down on people for over 40 years! Bear is just a new kid on the block in that regard
jeeeeez, I guarantee that everyone whinging about him watches his programme and sits sniping about how he has a safety line and he's rigged up to the top and blah blah blah. Its an entertainment programme that should be taken with a pinch of salt, its tuned into by most of the public to see him eat various animals and do some extreme looking stunts, it's not a factual documentary on climbing so if you don't like it again....don't watch it! I watched the adventure show with Dave MacLeod and Alan Cassidy the other day, as a climber.....i loved it, my girlfriend (non climber) hated it and found it boring.....yet guess what, she loves bear grylls! Stop whinging and let the guy do what he does........que catty forum fanatic replies..........
> (In reply to LaylayPants)
> Your definatly in the 90 percent!
> If you don't like bear grylls and what he does, surely this should be enough for you to stop yourself from watching his videos.
> I don't like sprouts, so guess what..... I don't eat them, and then moan about it on UKSPROUTS
You'll learn that climbers (on the internet, anyway) are generally snobby about this kind of thing.
No idea why, but that's a whole other issue. If you need to call someone a c*ck because he doesn't wear rock shoes (or whatever), then I guess that's down to you..
I know a lot of it is just humour; but a lot of people seem to genuinely get pissed off at Bear Grylls.. lol. It takes all sorts, I guess.
in reply to daniel : if someone fed you some kind of crap that looked like sprouts but tasted awful (i love sprouts by the way, specially after a good winter... anyway, i digress) would you go on uksprouts and moan? Its not climbing what hes up to, which is why UKC, when sent it from some promoter, decided to pick it up and have some fun fully aware (and promoting to an extent) a piss take response. Sorry if it has upset you. Didnt he baloon or paraglide or someting over evere....... on no hang on.
people will defend because they like him and want to be him. people will attack him because hes false and very annoying. facts. get used to it.
I didn't realise it was a race, if it was Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay win hands down. He is very successful with what he has done, has tried some things I am very much jealous of, such as paragliding over Everest, and seen far more places than I am ever likely to do too.
If I could get a job doing that I jump at it, worth it be rich and well travelled. I couldn't eat the stuff he does mind.
A lot of people enjoyed this as a kid, including me, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106582/
and it hasn't made me hate sly stallone, I just giggle at how incorrect it is......shall we all post about how stallone never even climbed half the climbs in the film and how he is a disgrace and blah blah blah whine whine whine?
Maybe it is laughable to an audience of adult climbers (and clearly it is) but, if I had seen this as a kid, I may well have been inspired. And I certainly wouldn't have wondered why he was wearing approach shoes with a black top rope from above. To be fair, he even looked like was doing a bit of easy leading at the start of the climbing proper.
If you don't like, why do you feel the need to watch and moan.
The point is instead of being positive you continously seek to put a downer on something that doesn't really matter. He hasn't and probably never will say he is an amazing climber. Its an excellent produced video, with bear giving his aspect on climbing.
Don't forget that he doesn't have to follow your choice of climbing.
And for anyone that use's a rope while climbing, will certainly know the reasons why bear will have safety ropes on man vs wild and his other videos. He isn't going to kill himself to make good TV.
In reply to JoshOvki: Did they say in your program he paraglided over everest then?
Greedotheferret19 Apr 2012
In reply to ricky6386: I have to say I watched the adventure show last week, and I found it really boring. Normally I'll watch some climbing footage and be inspired to get out and play on the rock. But half way through I was just starting to switch off.
Climbing up a wet cave just seems pointless to me.
In reply to JoshOvki: Now now josh, lets not get personal. i havent, however nor have i claimed to have....
"No evidence has ever been produced to substantiate the initial claim to have actually flown over Mt Everest in a Paramotor, or the later claim to have flown higher than 8848m (29035 ft), but nevertheless it was a remarkable achievement to even take off with such heavy equipment at 4200m (14000 ft) near Pheriche in Nepal. The sole existing GPS record of the flight suggests they reached about 7600m (25000 ft) which exceeded the existing World Record."
I agree it was an achievement. Please remember that I think in a lot of peoples cases their main beef with your boy is that he has made some pretty wild claims in the past, and produces programs that are sexed up and not transparent. That is all. Why are you so upset that some folk on an internet forum poke fun at him?
In reply to UKC News: 'Spose he appeals to youngsters and wannabe's but myself I just hate this kind of self promotional dipsh1t, masquerading as some sort of icon when in reality there are probably thousands of UK based climbers and mountaineers who are way beyond his capabilities. So I've just gotta agree with the comments of some of the others on here; he's an utter cock and he should be wearing a helmet!
In reply to UKC News: So he's using the 'wrong shoes' (how many people would thing about going at a climb like that without rock boots? It's actually quite impressive ) and there's a top rope somewhere. This is a program about someone interested in the same sport as us, possibly getting other people into climbing who wouldn't otherwise, helping to expand our sport... and that is a bad thing is it ukc? It's that kind of snobbish attitude that keeps less popular sports less popular. This guy likes climbing, ukc likes climbing, we all like climbing... win win?
I wasn't getting personal, just amusing how so many people try and down play some of the achievements he has made. It is good viewing, most of the things on TV and sexed up and non transparent. You don't rip into Dave McLoed for not showing his failed attempts while working a route
I am not upset, slightly bored mind (8,000 words to go) and this is keeping me occupied
In reply to Danielg: What you fail to grasp is that to "Market" in this way is nothing short of embarassing. Only those that don't know any better won't see it for what it is, to sell climbing as nothing more than a adrenaline experience is selling if far short.
For someone who is nothing more than a crass self publicist famous for being famous built on nothing more than a tissue of lies. I come from a generation where our Hero's really were role models, Kevin Keegan skidding off in superstars and getting up or John Noakes nearly dying in a variety of Bluepeter assignments, these were real Hero's !!!
You might think he's a cock, I see someone who sucessfully fills a media niche and good luck to him. He is a TV presenter not a climber - how many TV presenters can do what he does better ? certainly not 1000s
the problem with it is that he's portraying himself as some sort of hero. He's effectively saying "I Bear Grylls, a real life human being, am awesome and deserving of your adoration for my awesome stunts" when really he's not doing them. He could easily present and do some stuff while introducing real life heros of various activities who could do it for real, and still with the benefit of the camera work and high budget. That would be equally inspiring and yet true as well.
What he's doing is immoral really! And someone who is lying should not be a role model (I'm not saying he might not be a fair role model based on some of his actions but a lot of them are lies)
In reply to GrahamD: The thing is Noakes never pretended he wasn't scared, or ever professed competence. A mate of mine ran an abseil for Ghrylls at a popular cornish tourist attraction and even had to show him how to put a harness on.... Extreeeme Hardcore PUNTER ;0)
> (In reply to UKC News) This is a program about someone interested in the same sport as us, possibly getting other people into climbing who wouldn't otherwise, helping to expand our sport... and that is a bad thing is it ukc? It's that kind of snobbish attitude that keeps less popular sports less popular. This guy likes climbing, ukc likes climbing, we all like climbing... win win?
Participants in any other sport would react in the same way. If a minor celebrity filmed themselves running a marathon in 4 hours for charity, overlaid it with motivational sermons and presented it as a master class they'd get ridiculed by marathon runners.
Noakes DID pretend to do the Penine Way (where presumably he PRETENDED to be cold, wet and tired unlike like the rest of us who actually did do the PW). I became pretty cynical about veracity of all these TV shows when I found out.
> (In reply to summitjunkie)
> You might think he's a cock, I see someone who sucessfully fills a media niche and good luck to him. He is a TV presenter not a climber - how many TV presenters can do what he does better ? certainly not 1000s
The press release for the video, undoubtedly sanctioned by Mr Grylls himself states, "Extreme mountain climbing icon Bear Grylls". I therefore stand by my earlier comments; there are thousands of UK climbers and mountaineers out there who are way beyond his capabilities. He is a self-promoting cock.
In reply to GrahamD: The penine way may be the peak of teenage televisual world (long distance lowland walks aren't my bag baby)
However a Bosuns chair secured by a Manilla rope clovehitch hanging off Nelsons Column or standing atop the Rigging on HMS Ganges... "Real fear" and "Real Risk", and if you watch Keving Keegan on superstars there is lots of real blood.
The thing I don't quite get is why the cinematic slow-mo slapping and big tracking shots have to be to the complete exclusion of the actual process of climbing. I mean it actually seems they've gone to great lengths to hide 'how' roped climbing works! Why, it's just plain weird?
'Authentic' climbing video doesn't have to be all about painfully dull shaky close-ups of a gurning man failing his desperate project for the umpteenth time. 'Commercial' climbing video surely doesn't have to look like the 'too silly to be believable' out-takes from Mission Impossible?
You obviously have some serious issues when it comes to bear.
At the end of the day, all he's doing is making a living surely you can understand that he is hardly going to turn down money because you don't like it, like you wouldn't stop being you, because bear doesn't like what you do!!!
The guys ex 23 SAS, and definatly has a hell of a lot of life experience.
In reply to Danielg: If he's ex 23 then I'm a Yankee Navy SEAL - no-one has yet been found that remembers him in 23. The boy is a fantasist! ...and as for "a hell of a lot of life experience" you are surely having a laugh!
In reply to Danielg: Please bear (pun intended) in mind above I stated that one of my workmates had to rig up an abseil for Grylls and show him how to put on a Harness it is blatantly clear he couldn't do my job ;0)
Its all lies,not everything you see on the Telly is true, im sorry. It's like finding that girl you lusted after for months has a "Crying Game" in the pants....
> (In reply to muppetfilter)
> You obviously have some serious issues when it comes to bear.
> At the end of the day, all he's doing is making a living surely you can understand that he is hardly going to turn down money because you don't like it, like you wouldn't stop being you, because bear doesn't like what you do!!!
> The guys ex 23 SAS, and definatly has a hell of a lot of life experience.
I recall his website referring to that and an 'operational deployment' to North Africa (this being long ago, of courseand not a mysterious reference to Libya). I don't believe 23 ever had such a depolyment BITD. Probably very different now, but not back then.
In reply to UKC News: As many people have said this video is embarrassing to watch if taken seriously as a climber, but for a 10 year old kid it is inspirational if he is motivating kids to get out and see the world as he is then that has to be a good thing!! the fact that he is chief scout proves that he wants to help get kids into the great outdoors. the only issue i have is that he is not wearing a helmet! if youthink that you can do a better job of getting kids excited about the mountains then why dont you go out and do it instead of criticising people that are at least trying!
I'm sure everyone in this thread could make a more entertaining and more accurate TV show than Bear. People in this thread obviously have a lot more charisma and confidence to talk in front of the camera and present their own show, along with all the necessary survival skills and techniques to talk about and display.
I'm just wondering why you all haven't done that, but would rather snipe at someone who has? Interesting.
> (In reply to ericinbristol)
> Thank you thank thank you... that is feckin' brilliant
Agreed - awesome. '..an actual anchor'
Oh yes. Bear Grylls is a liar and a fraud. For all of those who say 'what's the harm?' the harm is that he misrepresents what he has done, he misrepresents what we do and he misrepresents how things should be done (harming animals? running down glaciers? wearing a gore-tex jacket everywhere?). He dishonestly, and knowingly, steals what is due to those whose records he falsely claims - para over Everest, youngest Brit on Everest etc.
It affects how us and these activities are seen in the mainstream and that affects how we are treated by the media, the authorities and other organisations like land managers, insurers, law enforcement etc. A dishonest and/or inaccurate representation of anything is rarely good, it propagates misinformation and prevents genuine understanding. It diverts attention from the genuine and useful toward the contrived and frivolous. Some people, like Grylls and his supporters, are simply unable to see beyond their greed and self-interest, that the world is not theirs alone, that their actions affect others. They don't deserve our 'respect', they deserve exposure and condemnation.
I think a lot of you have secret man crushes on Bear Grylls, which are causing you to speak cruelly about him, maybe some councelling might help you to come to terms with this? I have heard of this condition once "Bearcrushphobia" and it can get pretty nasty, it has similar symptoms to "Sharmalitus" which can have an equally nasty outcome.
In reply to SteveSBlake: I'd be very surprised if he was in 21 either - the selection for both TA SAS units is just a little bit harder than feckin' about on a hillside with a film crew and perfecting a 'thousand yard stare'. If he'd been on any course I ran just as a cloudpuncher you could guarentee I'd RTU him just for being a total wanker.
As Jim Royal would say, "Bear Grylls? TA SAS? My arse!"
> (In reply to summitjunkie)
> 21 SAS TA selection, is exactly the same as 22 SAS! Its run by the same training staff and in the same locations. To the same standards.
> 21 SAS when they were called that, would have carried out operations in conflicts around the world with 22 SAS and other special force's.
> You do surely know this though, and are not as ignorant as you project yourself to be.
I resignedly place my head in my hands and concede itis time to leave this forum........
If there was a smiley that summed the above up, I'd use it NOW!
The difference between films like Cliffhanger and Mission Impossible and the tosh that Grylls trots out is that the former are pure entertainment, bits of high octane hokum that nobody pretends are true or even anything like it.
Grylls, by contrast, presents his programmes and this kind of promo video as factual documentaries. People are therefore entitled to believe they are true and that they can believe what they are seeing. If the content is flammed up then they are defrauding the viewers because the overall impression of the film is to convey a lie, to present something that did not happen opr did not happen in the way shown as if it did.
Grylls may or may not have some outstanding achievements behind him. I have no way of knowing because I cannot believe some of what he tells me and if some of it is lies then I have no way of knowing if I can believe any of it. By overplaying his hand he just comes over as phoney.
> (In reply to Danielg)
> I resignedly place my head in my hands and concede itis time to leave this forum........
> If there was a smiley that summed the above up, I'd use it NOW!
I'm surprised you bothered to repy. I think the irony of the post in question will clearly pass over the head of the guy who made it
> (In reply to UKC News)
> Goodness me! So much anger and elitism all in one thread.
> I am sure the producers had much to say about the making of this, and him very little.
Josh, I completely agree.
Personally, I can be a sucker for over produced shmultz (?), and yes, this promo is a tad embarrassing, but I know how much I'd have loved this, as a ten year old kid, in a "boys own" kind of way. Most of my own climbing has been about inspiration, enthusiasm and imagination, the wonder of it all. Isn't Grylls trying to convey something similar here?
In our seriousness, haven't we forgotten how climbing may have captured our imagination in the first place?
I don't think Mr. Grylls is a fake either. If you look past the production, there are plenty of subtle clues, things like the way he holds/places the cam etc. Have to admit though, he fails to make the slap for the mono! Punter.
By the way, which cream cracker do you prefer, reduced fat or normal? I'm partial to the poppy seed variety with my cheese, but they're twice the price.
> Grylls, by contrast, presents his programmes and this kind of promo video as factual documentaries.
Come on. Its presentation style. Just as 'big brother' is presented as 'real'. It only takes a moments thought to think of the logistics involved in setting up a film / production crew for any of the 'lone adventurer' type things you see on TV.
Brilliant, UKC does it again with such style, trashing someone who, lets be honest, is exploiting a gap in the outdoor market, and at the same time helps produce some quite watchable television. I'm sure that lots of contributors to this thread would be less cynical if they had the opportunity to be in the same position.
In fact, UKC threads are often incredibly judgemental about people who, in their opinion, fall below their supposed high standards; fat,unfit,smokers,people who don't want to climb E whatever within two weeks of starting climbing etc.
Keep up the good work UKC
What makes Bear an arse pebble is that rather than be an instructional video, to get kids interested, it is a festival of onanism which handily forgets that the world over is full of people who do what he just did week in and week out. It's all about Edward and not the climbing. Mind you, be handy for his Fitness Singles profile....
As to the TA guff, as someone who was Utrinque Paratus at weekends I would not place myself in the same category of the Regs (or TA lads with tours), something our Edward seems to do with annoying regularity.
If you stop the video a 01:45 you can see Rich Simpson holding the top rope.
that film is so annoying in so many ways. he probably is a great guy and has good knowledge about many things from being in the SAS ect.. but the survival programs and this video are complete bollocks. there designed to be entertaining programs that are supposed to look extreme for people who don't know anything about survival or the outdoors. For anyone who even has the foggiest idea about the outdoors or rock climbing for that matter the program just looks like a joke, and a rubbish one at that.
just a bit embarrassing really.... the most annoying thing for me is how he carries coils of rope round his body all the bloody time??? not really any need... they producers are trying to make him look like action man. Just looks like a nob.
Genuinely interested in this so don't take this as a snipe but did he claim to have paraglided over Everest ? His wiki page says not, and though the height is disputed it was taken as a new record height for a paraglidy thing. Was he not the youngest brit to climb everest at the time ? I think it's been beaten since though 2 or 3 times.
TBH harming animal, running down glaciers and wearing gore-tex everywhere covers many presenters nowadays in his vein.
Just don't mention Ben Fogle on this thread. That really will get people's backs up :0)
I'm surpised nobody's yet commented on the section in the behind the scenes video where the camera crew talk about how much rock they've had to level and break off to make it safe for them to film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5eWlTYeHyk&t=20s
To the few thousand in this country who know what is what with climbing. To the 1.2 billion who apparently watched born in the wild and lived with wolves or whatever it was called he looks like an extreme hero. Job done !
I've met him too filming in the Lakes for countryfile. Proper nice bloke i thought, but my comment was aimed at the fact that he too is seen as an evil man as he has had the audacity to use his fame to make some programmes that were made out to be more extreme than they actually were so he could get some cash. HORROR !
I remember watching an episode of extreme dreams where he was talking about the remote area of Nepal where they were and how they were miles from civilisation and if anything went wrong they were in deep trouble. They were stood on a very well maintained track and on the hillside behind him was a large concrete building.
I agree it's wrong but that's the media we have nowadays. Just like all premiership footballers are cheats nowadays. Just look at John Terry last week or any of the players every week who exaggerate contact in an effort to cheat the game, paying fans and viewers. Just like all papers exaggerate as do news programs etc etc etc. As i say i don't like it but i find it hard to believe people still get so upset by one individual.
All i can see is an un referenced quote that says he did break a world record but didn't fly over Everest, something he says himself on his wikipedia page. Did he claim to have flown over Everest or higher than Everest at the time ? That's an important difference. He says his permit didn't allow him to fly over Everest so he didn't.
As for the youngest Brit thing was that true or made up ?
That's either a whopping, hard to hide, lie or a very impressive achievement.
He's not making the film for climbers, and that's up to him surely... (plus we've already got plenty of people making nice climbing films for us).
I'm not saying it shouldn't be the subject of some light hearted piss taking - but the character assassination on this thread is massively OTT.
All I see is a guy who's onto a good wheeze for making a few quid. I would do exactly the same in his position. Who cares if he tells a few porkies here and there, it's for entertainment. I'm pretty sure The Apprentice isn't an accurate representation of business either but no city bankers would get worked up about that.
Agreed. He is clearly making a film to entertain the masses and any sensible person would view it as such. Yes he is a bit inclined towards the spotlight, but then most people are.
Take this site for instance, it's full of people's photos showing how 'extreme' they are! Are all of these photos real? Take the photo on the old eastern grit back cover end of the affair - am i correct in recalling that there was a toprope on the other side of the arete? That may just have been a rumour and I may be wrong here, but my point is that the climbing community as a whole has been known to play up the drama too...
It's yet another UKC staff playing judge and jury story. Who cares how he choses to conduct himself so long as he isn't breaking laws or hurting people.
In reply to UKC News:
sadly i bought a pair of bear grylls trousers hoping that if i was wearing his trousers perhaps i could be the same as him.
(anyone remember "billys boots")
mind you anyone that can sleep IN a camel deserves respect.
(try FINDING a camel when you need one)
> (In reply to Wiley Coyote)
> Hadn't you realised up until you saw this video that TV land is not real ?
I've got to confess that being married to a TV producer/director for 20 years did eventually lead to the odd glimmer of suspicion. Sadly you only have to earwig conversations in a pub to quickly realise that an alarmingly high proportion of people actually believe this crap is real.
> an alarmingly high proportion of people actually believe this crap is real.
So what? No harm done - absolutely no consequences at all in fact. Might even inspire people to get outdoors and have their own adventure.
People might hold him in higher esteem than he 'deserves' but why do you/we care about that?
Smiler H19 Apr 2012
In reply to Ed FBeldman: But does he inspire people to get out there?
I often hear people say how amazing what he does is but how they could never do it themselves, when in actual fact, they could!! Bar the eating of animals raw, he does little that a fit, healthy average Jo(e) couldn't do, but by embellishing it all and making it look extreme, he makes the simple seem hardcore and unattainable.
I don't care what grade he climbs, as long as he honestly portrays it rather than lying.
In reply to UKC News: You all can take the piss and argue whether he stays in hotels or if he did or didn't paraglide over Everest. But at the end of the day, the bloke made it in to the SAS reserves (by no means easier than regular SAS but one of the only ways a civilian can get in), survivived a sky diving accident where he broke his back in 3 places. A couple of years later he had summitted Everest at 23. He may do promo vids for multinationals now but he's put the effort in beforehand to get there.
Give the guy a break, I'm sure there will soon be another sucsessful person for you all to to ridicule when you get bored of Bear Bashing
In reply to leeplastic: Yeah ... Lets Bash Kenton Cool .... Hold on he climbs hard and guides on big mountains and wins international mountaineering awards and all of this without a clothing line at Millets.
In reply to UKC News: maybe people should do something constructive with there evening instead of "bear bashing", maybe if people spent less time behind there computer screen tearing the guy to pieces they may achieve even a fraction of some of the things he has done. get out there!!
> (In reply to leeplastic) Yeah ... Lets Bash Kenton Cool .... Hold on he climbs hard and guides on big mountains and wins international mountaineering awards and all of this without a clothing line at Millets.
Kenton's hardly adverse to self-promotion to be fair.
In reply to UKC News: He did really well with 40' of rope..we had to use on the first ascent a 200' lenth. .This "ascent" by the Bear was possibly only the third since 2003.However we did not use chalk ,and managed to get to the foot of the climb in 3 mins from our truck...so there....
In reply to thommi: I think in both cases they could climb the routes they were filmed/photographed on and Grylls is no doubt the inferior climber, it's just they chose to sensationalise those routes (you mention the lack of padding, surely the situation looks more serious without padding?) subsequently and that's where I thnk the similarities lie.
In reply to UKC News: Some seriously snobbish, jealous tontos on here. Jealous that someone has found a way to do what they love and get paid for the Privaledge of doing so. I think Bear's great, would far rather kids growing up with him as a role model than anyone else.
In reply to shaggypops: Ermmm, let me think about this. Well actually yes I would, cheesy as he is to us older folk. I would rather my Son get excited about him and other people like Steve Batchel, than some Tosser Football player, or wanky rapper, or X factor pop star.
In reply to WillC: Totally agree!!!! Steve "look at my muscles" "if I was a bar of chocolate I'd eat myself" Backshall wins hands down, watch deadly 6o with my 3, 5, 6, & 9yrd old sons and we collect the cards ;}
> Just don't mention Ben Fogle on this thread. That really will get people's backs up :0)
May I just mention that Ben Fogle has actually rowed the Atlantic, holding his own with his Olympic champion companion. Respect. Nothing phoney about that - shows up Grylls for the utter joke that he is (though I do have s grudging respect for the way he has got away with it so spectacularly successfully).
In reply to Jim Crow: After the somewhat homoerotic raft video, just what was he doing with that tube, sounds bust on my PC found this one, How to get a wet suit from a dead seal, NO not the ones who shot Asama!
I can't wait to see the full program, he'll likely solo parts, hang off by his finger tips whilst adjusting his sunglasses, and use super cool words to describe how difficult this is! Although to be fair he is getting youths interested, and appealing to audiences which would otherwise not be exposed to climbing!
> (In reply to thommi)
> All i can see is an un referenced quote that says he did break a world record but didn't fly over Everest, something he says himself on his wikipedia page. Did he claim to have flown over Everest or higher than Everest at the time ? That's an important difference. He says his permit didn't allow him to fly over Everest so he didn't.
> As for the youngest Brit thing was that true or made up ?
> That's either a whopping, hard to hide, lie or a very impressive achievement.
Well, he tried to hide it, but failed.
Wikipedia is not 'his' page. Others can edit it, and they do. Pages like his are often a final balance of diplomatically worded opposing views. Mine was completely created by another person I've never met. If you log in to Wikipedia you can tell who has made changes to any page.
People saw him at Pheriche and saw where/how he went and so he was forced to change his story. However in very recently published books the claim is still there that he 'flew over Everest'. Some may exonerate Grylls and blame his publisher/PR etc but he has control over his image, his media, he benefits from it, he's no amateur. He knows he can let that stuff slide as so many don't care or know any better.
James Allen was the youngest Brit to climb Everest. He did the north ridge in 1995. He hold dual citizenship but does have a British passport. He was 22 at the time. Initially his dual nationality was not well-known, and in the early days of the internet the research and stalking we take for granted now was not so easy. So Grylls had an excuse, sort of. HAD in the past tense. James has informed the Bear camp about their error and they have ignored it, and continue to propagate the lie, as with the par Everest thing.
I won't go trawling the web for links, because I've done it before and they're on here somewhere. ExplorersWeb did a good coverage of the para Everest thing. And contrary facts don't seem to change some peoples' minds. So many comments above smack of mindless consumerism, blithely accepting and narrow.
As is typical here, people repeatedly post about how much they don't care. If you don't care, don't post. Go do something else. Some people do care, about the principles and wider issues involved, and want to debate and discuss that back and forth, agreeing or not. That is not a pointless exercise. People continually popping in to say they don't care, slagging the posters not the post - that is pointless. But Bear loves you, damnit, he NEEDS you!
"No matter, on Grylls's website he proudly announces that in 1998 he was the "youngest British climber to reach the summit of Mount Everest".
A spokesman for Grylls says this is indeed the case.
"There was some dispute as to whether the other man was British or Australian and it was looked at by a panel of adjudicators who agreed that it was an Australian mounted expedition and that Mr Allen was registered as an Australian himself."
A panel of adjudicators? ROFLMAO! James was on an Out There Trekking (OTT) expedition, a British company founded and run by Briton Jon Tinker, guided on this occasion by Briton Mike Smith. But again, ignore the facts, keep repeating the lie.
In reply to UKC News: I've always liked Bear Grylls and dislike all the pompous types who disrespect him. Remember he's just a guy making a (successful) living based around outdoor pursuits and he is partially slave to a production team who have their own ends. What I like about this short film is that the sentiments he conveys verbally are all good. The film is not accurate in terms of how you go about climbing a route, but who gives a shit - it's a nice dramatic piece of filming and I think the production team behind it should be proud. The small minority of the population who actually climb may scoff, but the vast majority of the population will find it exciting and possibly inspirational to explore this wonderful sport.
For everyone saying that it doesn't really matter; he's just making a living. I wonder what your opinion of me would be, if I posted an over-the-top video of me supposedly leading Parthian Shot, but on closer inspection I was top roping it.
Would you say fair play to me, or think I was a big timing liar?
In reply to Damo: No need to trawl for exagerated claims, look at the further information on the video. Bear Grills needs no introduction. .....and the youngest man ever to climb Everest!! A few facts missing I feel
Bizarre vid. I guess if you just accept that everything you see on TV is lies and unrealistic then fair enough, it's entertainment for the stupid. I can't help thinking that treating everyone as stupid has more sinister effects as well?
It's surreal that anyone who does anything remotely unethical gets a 50 page slating, but Bear makes a fantasy video seen by tens of thousands of Joe Bloggs and it's a 50/50 judgement. Half the 'unethical' things that people get so firebombed for on here are caused by ignorance rather than malice...
Thanks for the piece and the not unexpected thread it produced. I see Bear as typifying the current malaise that inflicts our country at the highest levels. Lying old etonians living it up having 'halmless fun' in a land above the rest of us. Its not evil as such but it is dishonest, exploitative, nepotistic, degrading of real quality and detrating from real heroism. These people almost run politics, the media and the judiciary. They know that they are increasingly unrepresentative and publicly 'wring their hands' about how to inspire and encourage the 'lower classes' to do better; then do their level best to help their families and those like them retain the benefits that they have. Many, I'm sure (like Bear), fully beleive their ability got them their just rewards but it isnt likely true and the armies of the more able who don't get the positions awarded to nephews and members of the same rowing club etc are a loss to the future success of our country. The mechanism for all this is the right school, the right university, the right sports club, the right unpaid internment and the right contacts. Nothing individually in this is that bad but the collective effect will ensure very few outsiders make it.
As cheif scout I'm sure he will inspire plenty of plebian couch potatoes already hooked on TV adreneline bollocks and leave the fewer but still plentiful young kids, who were sold the lie and did engage in adventure, with a bad taste when they grow up and realise the truth.
> I wonder what your opinion of me would be, if I posted an over-the-top video of me supposedly leading Parthian Shot, but on closer inspection I was top roping it.
> Would you say fair play to me, or think I was a big timing liar?
If the video was to support a career as a pro climber and was, therefore, aimed at the climbing community, you should be called out on it. Obviously.
If, however, you were putting the video out to the non-climbing public and not making a big deal about the route per se, I think we (as climbers) would laugh but the public might find it good.
I'm surprised people can't see the difference.
I'm not saying that I admire Bear (I don't) or that what he does is good (I think it's pretty trashy and I've never managed to watch one of his prog's all the way through, or even close to it) but I can see that kids in particular like it and I don't see any harm in that. If it gives them a thirst for adventure, then that's a good thing in my book. Do I mind the fact he makes money out of it.. not really for various reasons that are a bit irrelevant in all honesty. I find many TV personalities far more offensive than Bear.
In reply to UKC News: My biggest qualm with it being bear grylls in this video is the company the producers have seen fit to put him in. Darren Berrecloth for example is a genuinely talented athlete, as are the others in the series. Grylls is a talented entertainer.
Good rant. I never had you down as a class warrior until recently
I see where you are coming from and, to an extent, I agree. However, I don't think the interest of some people in Bear and hence his 'success' is anything to do with class. You might not like the fact that he comes from a bit of a privileged background (compared to some) but I doubt that has very much to do with where he is now and seems to say more about your prejudices than anything else. He did happen to get into the TA SAS, has had a few adventures, and looks/sounds ok on TV (if that's your taste). Of course kids are fascinated by him.
Do you think that appropriate climbing heroes for youngsters should be from a Manchester plumbing background where the lore is of pub fights?
Presumably you have a problem with Bonners for the same reason?
In reply to UKC News: Meh. Yeah, the video looks bullshit from a climber's point of view, but it's a cool route at least.
Bear Grylls has always given the appearance of not being what he's trying to portray, even from the time of his first book when he seemed to be giving the impression he was out doing his own thing in the wilderness of Everest (when in fact he was being guided on one of Henry Todd's trips as far as I'm aware). Not saying getting up Everest isn't an achievement in itself -- he just shouldn't need to portray it as anything other than what it was.
So yeah, he comes across as dishonest which is a shame, though it does give us fun opportunities for Bear Baiting. He's young, noisy and does all sorts of stuff so he's a good, inspiring chief scout I would have thought. Just a shame he leaves himself open to criticism with all the bullshit. In part it's probably that he's very dramatic and macho, and we Brits can't help ridiculing that as teenage behaviour.
> And we all expect adverts to be truthful and accurate.
No. But if someone - celebrity or otherwise - claims to have run a marathon I expect them to have run the 26.2 miles. If they get a lift most of the way and are caught out then they deserve all the public humiliation they get.
Similarly, if someone claims to have done a rock climb, they better have actually done it. I wouldn't care if he went with a guide and got a top rope the whole way and didn't try to hide it. But top roping on a hidden rope and having gear on your harness and a much more visible bit of rope dangling to make it look like you lead it is cheating, just like missing out ten miles of a marathon course. Even worse would be using rope assist to pretend to climb something you can't actually climb, which is what that shot of him hanging by one hand going for chalk for no apparent reason with his feet smearing on nothing rather than wedged in the crack looks like.
I'm not a class warrier in anything like the normal sense. This is about an undeserved elite growing like ivy and chocking off many of our key institutions from the best talent; and the drip feeding of airbrushed shite to the public. If you really think background makes no difference in current entry to the media you are very very mistaken. Julie Birchill (not someone I'd normally recommend) put the position very well in much better rants than mine. Bonners knows full well his background helps open doors but he seems honest, puts climbing first and recognises and nurtures talent.
We put liars and cheats on pedestals and regard them as role models at our peril.
In reply to UKC News:
How lazy and misleading can editorial get...
The clip is alongside a dozen others that are from a Unilever advertising campaign for antiperspirant. It doesn't take more than 3 clicks to find that bit out. They include somewhat more interesting making of films, and 'Bear and Chubby in the woods' with Chubby on a giant hamster wheel...all true shame on you Bear.
Assuming consistency, are other editorials as accurate as this one...maybe Adam Ondra is just a Disney character...or maybe you've just viraled for £30 billion company.
> So your lack of criticism for one of the most 'public school' climbers is nothing to do with not wanting to attack a climbing legend in public?
I couldn't give a stuff about their schooling. I'm only interested in what they've done with their lives in our sphere and how their actions might affect others.
Bonington put his talents to the market - his books sold, his talks sold, he worked for a living, for years. He organised and led genuine hard expeditions doing difficult new things, respected within his field. He could also actually climb, off camera. At 50 he was climbing harder than most people on this forum. He didn't lie about his trips, he didn't claim firsts that were rightfully others. To match his climbing accomplishments nowadays would be impressive, to do what he did in his time is astounding. Real trips, real accomplishments. A lifetime of unmatched contribution to his field, and stints of unpaid service in his later years.
Grylls has lied about his trips, shown no respect for the community whose heritage he draws upon for his image, has accomplished no expeditions of any genuine merit, and has smarmed a vacuous television 'career' out of fake drama for an undiscerning mainstream.
Public schooling is about all they have in common.
> (In reply to tom_in_edinburgh)
> "claimed to have 'done' a rock climb" - what does that mean to the TV watching public ? I'm sure that an array of ropes and hammering in pitons is almost expected for them.
Two very simple things which the general public understand by 'doing a rock climb':
1. Actually climbing the difficult bit.
2. Being at risk of falling.
Hanging on a rope posing as if you are climbing is just as obvious as cheating to a member of the public as not running the full course on a marathon. The people involved obviously know this or they wouldn't have bothered trying to hide the top rope.
When someone describes themselves as a Mountaineering Icon in a movie called 'Masters of Movement' and then fakes a 5.9 climb and goes on to hand out a lecture on bravery while pretending to lead when he's top roping it's reached a vomit inducing level of hypocrisy.
In what possible sense is Bonners one of the most public school climbers?because he is well known and sounds posh?? Plenty of good honest climbers went to public school. I fail to attack him as I don't anything he's done that is so wrong (and plenty he's done that is good).
flattened spottter20 Apr 2012
Bear never claimed he was solo climbing. He said ‘at those sort of times I go off on my own and I climb’ that statement is open to interpretation. If you put emphasis on the ‘and’ they are two different things he likes doing ‘going off on his own’ AND ‘climbing’.
It wasn’t an elaborate cover up as everyone seems to be making out. At 1.01 you can see the black rope touching the ground. At 1.02 you can actually see him tie into the black rope. At 1.07 you can see both ropes in question before he starts the climb.
Maybe the yellow rope and the reason for carrying the rack was so Bear could utilise them for rests on a technically challenging route. On such a short clip and with no other detail, all the facts are not apparent so improvident judgements should not be made.
Last point - of course it will be glamorised by the producers, their objective is to sell a product, welcome to the world of advertising. Looking at your comments they have done a real good job aswell as you have all seen the video and are talking about it.
In reply to GrahamD:
and what do the the public think...
that we go to areas of carboniferous limestone, rip all the vegetation and loose rock off, use industrial power tools and anchor systems, spaced far enough apart that the chance of any uncertainity is removed but allows the opportunity to spend 43 days working a 12 move none line while allowing the passing public to understand the full range of vocabulary not available in a dicktionary.
Silly me I was thinking it was BG who was misrepresenting our noble sport. Welcome to our world of elitism and double standards.
For all the criticism of Bear Grylls perhaps we should consider for a moment why it is that UKC felt the need to run this as a news item. On receipt of the press release the editors could easily have chosen to dismiss it and, therefore, taken away any chance of Grylls getting any of the attention that the press release sought. Was this ascent considered truly newsworthy? Or was the decision to give it front page status (complete with commentary and use of ‘quotation marks’, ostensibly for “extra effect”) to provoke a reaction and create an interest in UKC itself, as the 11,000+ views and 225+ comments appear to attest? Lest we forget that UKC is a commercial company which requires users so as to attract advertising revenue etc. So while it is easy to find fault in the actions of others who promote themselves for their own gain, by participating in these forums we tacitly acquiesce to the commercialisation of climbing. In the end we all have the choice of whether we wish to read, watch and participate in this kind of stuff and Grylls is not the only one to cash in on it.
> Bear never claimed he was solo climbing. He said ‘at those sort of times I go off on my own and I climb’ that statement is open to interpretation. If you put emphasis on the ‘and’ they are two different things he likes doing ‘going off on his own’ AND ‘climbing’.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"
If you have to do mental gymnastics to see it in a way that its not lying, its probably lying.
> (In reply to UKC News)
> ...So while it is easy to find fault in the actions of others who promote themselves for their own gain, by participating in these forums we tacitly acquiesce to the commercialisation of climbing. In the end we all have the choice of whether we wish to read, watch and participate in this kind of stuff and Grylls is not the only one to cash in on it.
Promoting oneself for commercial gain and the commercialisation of climbing may be related, but they are not the same thing, or necessarily as closely aligned as you imply. Somewhere along the way most people 'promote themselves' for gain. Climbing has had commercial elements from its earliest days, just as it has always had competition, cheating and lying. What is debatable is the degree to which we, as a group or community, allow, or like, or dissuade, either of those. It's a question of degree. A good way to hash that out is arguing back and forth in forums. Not as much fun as the pub but a lot more efficient. UKC serves some very good purposes, and if that needs to be supported by a few ads that are easily ignored then so be it.
The item as a click-magnet I thought was obvious. I have no problem with contributing to that if the thread is a discussion of issues related to climbing, which this is. Sort of.
> (In reply to tom_in_edinburgh)
> now what was I saying about double standards, elitism and hypocrisy...
> >>Been Climbing For
> Less than 1 year
> Main Sport/Activity
> Indoor Climbing
So what. I don't claim to be anything more than a middle aged punter. The hypocrisy bit comes when a 5.9 top roping punter calls themselves a 'mountaineering icon' and makes a self promoting video. The cheating bit comes if they also make it look like a lead climb and don't even do the moves.
As you probably know well (given the smile and the dig) I'm a liberal academic who, although active in trade unionism, spends too much of my valuable time opposing trotskyist motions.
I became an adult in the late 70's in a world where the old upper classes were losing their hold and much larger numbers were progressing from modest backgounds on merit, even than under the old grammar system (including some on the increasing number of public school scholarships). Some of the most conservative oxbridge colleges were letting women in for the first time, cutting the need for latin or greek and favouring A/S level entry over entrance exams; black british kids from comps were alongside the sons of African and Arab cabinet ministers. My comp had transformed from a relative backwater to a very successful school, partly as the the grammar route closed. Sex and sexuality had stopped being matters of public shame (at least outside the world of the biggotted Daily Mail readers). Even Conservative leaders had stopped being from Eton through Oxford PPE. I was an optimistic young man with a strong belief in fair play and things seemed to be getting better.
Sadly since those days things seem to stall and more recently gone clearly in reverse. In high positions, nepotism and dishonesty and sometimes even superiority seem almost accepted. Those challenging unfairness and lies (even with evidence) are almost regarded as mad. The large media organisations are probably the worst offenders in this respect but even public sector management in some Universities and Hospitals and Police Forces are in on the act now. People pretend that the NoW scandal and Met Police problems are exceptions.
Honesty is important, fairness is important, equality is important. Unlike the trots I dont think you need to smash the system to achieve these but you do need to challenge wrongs and look at ways to improve things and campaign for them.
Bear is just a tiny part of the bad shit going in in UK media at the moment. He does repetedly profit from lies and as such is a bad role model for kids. His public school linked background isn't the main problem as such but the reality is he almost certainly wouldn't be where is if he was from a poor housing estate and a comp education.
> What's your point? Does that in some way undermine what he said?
What that the advert has mislead the public into thinking that its not Dave McLeod on Echo Wall...99% of the public have no concept of the difference between soloing, free soloing, rope protection, top ropes, bolts and more importantly are not bothered anyway. Lets assume it was done as a trad lead or an Alex Honnold solo what exactly would it have achieved (more sales)...its not a public information film...its a nice bit of over hammed cinematography for deodorant that has the 'I own that' climbers pulling their trainspotting note books out..That the comments of risk and misrepresentation of the sport are drawn on 1 years climbing on plywood panels for £6.50 a session is the height of taking yourself too seriously.
> If, however, you were putting the video out to the non-climbing public and not making a big deal about the route per se, I think we (as climbers) would laugh but the public might find it good.
> I'm surprised people can't see the difference.
I see your point, he doesn't actually talk about the route, or the grade at all, it's just him going up a bit of rock.
Personally I think the advertisers have shot themselves in the foot a bit with the BG clip being a bit pony, amongst a field of other genuinely talented, top of their game people. Kinda devalues their message.
Amazing production quality in all the clips though.
Bear is an amazing adventurer. I read his book and he is truly inspirational. That said, he become a commercial product, he found a way to make a lot of money and his producer probably pushes him to do something silly like this video. It has pure commercial and advertising meaning. The video is done well and like many other videos with this style it tries to shock you with slow motion filming and cool sounds (come on did the bird really squeak!!??)... of course he was not leading especially with those shoes. I think that for Bear faking something on TV for the sake of entertainment (and cash) is probably totally normal. However, I'm slightly disappointed at UKC... Not sure why they mixed this type of Holliwood style videos with the real stuff they post regularly. We need real mountaneers, real people... i feel much more inspired and entertained by the usual videos you post. I would expect to see this video on the daily mail not UKC.
In reply to deepsoup:
sweeping statements as evidenced below by Tom's repost.
and how many climbers face certain death if they fall off on in an advert, on a top rope with the scouts , at a climbing wall, on Right wall, a boulder problem, where is the difference?
He is seen using some kind of equipment (in a very entertaining way ) ...'No Ethel, thats his safety equipment he pulls on, it falls on it, fires it in with a bolt gun...but I know for certain Ethel...Bear knows what he is doing)
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Hmm I missed the bit where he called himself a 'mountaineering icon'...remind me where that was?
I missed the bit where he was making a self promoting video...he's paid by Unilever in a huge multi million $ multi layered North American product campaign ...so I take it that's his job...a bit like waving Samsung banners on Everest...
Listen to the commentary and then decide if there is anything that you feel uncomfortable about if it was said by... [pick a name].
It must be appalling to have a '5.9 top roping punter' become Chief Scout and boost the falling numbers of kids involvement in scouting and the outdoors against every trend in the book.
As a separate point, and having done this ...for an unroped scene we filmed for a docudrama the talent who climbs at E6 did not climb at any point with out a safety line on a VDiff move...its removed in post production. It is a an appropriate safety measure to prevent foreseeable accidents and matches our H&S method statements and the expectations of our insurance cover and duty of care. A week before we filmed him climbing 'normally' for actuality with normal rules of engagement and risk. 2 completely diff things.
> Bear is an amazing adventurer. I read his book and he is truly inspirational.
Being inspirational is one thing. Some people felt his book was misleading and that he wasn't an amazing adventurer, just an amazing bullshit-artist.
There's nothing wrong with what he does. What's wrong is the disparity with what he does and what is presented. Too much spin turning some cool activities in their own right into a steaming pile of crap.
One of his "amazing" adventures was to be first to cross the Atlantic with a stopover in Iceland in a boat with a big outboard motor on the back. So much more impressive than those lightweights who have done it solo non-stop with sails or even oars for propulsion.
In reply to Robert Durran: people seem to be implying that only those adventurers who are among the most accomplished in the world should be allowed to be featured in TV programs as an entertainer. What planet are you on? And what have YOU done?
In reply to UKC News:Been very entertaining reading all the comments on Bears effort on this climb of mine. The main difficulty on the first ascent of this climb was not the 5.9 bits but the clean aid(no pitons)on the sections that have quite soft rock. I took two short falls at the start of the second pitch (cams ripping out) and another longer fall from near the top of the same pitch ripping out three cams ending up at the bottom of the groove Bear was pretending to layback.The final crack was solid and worth the problems of the lower looser sections.Its the climbers who ever they were who got Bear in those positions and almost hid his top rope that should be commended for their effort.
> One of his "amazing" adventures was to be first to cross the Atlantic with a stopover in Iceland in a boat with a big outboard motor on the back.
Reminds me of an Orcadian fishermen I met living in the Faroes. He was showing me his boats -- "this one I had built in America". I asked how he had it delivered to the Faroes and he replied "oh, I just flew over and drove it here." When I opined that would be tiring he assured me that he had a quick stop in Iceland for a rest.
> (In reply to summitjunkie)
> 21 SAS TA selection, is exactly the same as 22 SAS! Its run by the same training staff and in the same locations. To the same standards.
> 21 SAS when they were called that, would have carried out operations in conflicts around the world with 22 SAS and other special force's.
> You do surely know this though, and are not as ignorant as you project yourself to be.
In reply to UKC News: im really not bothered what he does.he is not harming anyone.
i find some of the replies far more entertaining,people who can hardly climb any harder slagging the bloke off....
he's making money out of it so good on him
KTT20 Apr 2012
In reply to mark s: Is it just me or does anyone else find the initial post by Jack Gerald, sneering, elitist, mocking and rather unpleasant?
In reply to UKC News: The technicalities of the production of this climbing sequence and video aside, to those who patronise Bear Grylls remember he has completed one of the toughest selection processes in the world...if you are in the Special Forces then have a go at Bear for staying in hotels, or top roping for that matter, by all means...
In reply to UKC News: When any adventure sport - especially climbing, is packaged up to be presented to the general public, it is invariably never a technically correct or realistic portrayal.
And the reason for this is very simple - the general public don't care.
They have no in-depth knowledge of the sport, and therefore don't spot, or are not in the least bit interested in the often laughable inaccuracies and un-realistic aspect of it - it's simply entertainment.
Climbers are not Bear Grylls target market, and at the end of the day, it's all about making money for those involved in the production of his programmes and activities.
And, Bear Grylls is not the first, or last individual, to put an inaccurate 'spin' on his supposed achievements in order to further his career.
i'm sure there is a forum somewhere, where scientists are up in arms over the unrealistic and inaccurate 'technical' presentation in the media, of how the Hadron Collider actually works, and operates, but I wouldn't be able to spot it.
At the end of the day, it's all about entertainment, and money!
Argiung about it on here, is only giving Mr Grylls even more publicity.
> (In reply to UKC News) if you are in the Special Forces then have a go at Bear for staying in hotels, or top roping for that matter, by all means...
Nobody is having a go at him for top roping or sleeping in hotels. It's about honesty, not elitism. In every sport there is an basic expectation of honesty about performance and passing selection for Special Forces doesn't give you a free pass.
In reply to UKC News: What an absolute tool! Would have been so easy just to do the route properly, and not much harder to fake it well. Probably had several guys just paid to chuck rocks past the camera every now and then. I bet he cried like a baby as the guide short roped him onto the top (before hiding behind a rock for the 'hero' shot)
If he'd just been honest and filmed himself being taken up it without all the faking BS, this wouldn't bother me at all. What will all those kids he's inspired think when they find out the truth about their hero, shattered dreams...
> (In reply to lots)
> the problem with it is that he's portraying himself as some sort of hero. He's effectively saying "I Bear Grylls, a real life human being, am awesome and deserving of your adoration for my awesome stunts" when really he's not doing them. He could easily present and do some stuff while introducing real life heros of various activities who could do it for real, and still with the benefit of the camera work and high budget. That would be equally inspiring and yet true as well.
> What he's doing is immoral really! And someone who is lying should not be a role model (I'm not saying he might not be a fair role model based on some of his actions but a lot of them are lies)
That's bollock, he is doing no such thing. So many fookin snobs on here makes me sick. He's doing something he enjoys and he's perhaps inspiring some fat kids to get out and do something similar. We all know there are bits which are staged, so fookin what? I quite like the show as that's what it is, an entertaining show hosted by a passionate likeminded soul. If you want to watch some proper climbing then YouTube C.Sharma and jack yourselves off whilst giving yourselves a great big pat on your superior backs. FFS, don't like it don't watch it. We Brits won't, no can't ever praise anyone who's doing something which is actually quite good. Jealousy!!! Why don't all the Naysayers go get yourselves a TV show rather that wasting time putting someone down who at heart, probably thinks much like you.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: Praising someone for doing something good would be saying .. I like the quality of the programmes that Ray Mears chap makes, The balance between Botany, scenery and real proven survival skills is really interesting. The deference he showed to the skills of others and the insight and humour shown without patronising indiginous peoples.
> (In reply to Robert Durran) people seem to be implying that only those adventurers who are among the most accomplished in the world should be allowed to be featured in TV programs as an entertainer. What planet are you on? And what have YOU done?
How accomplished he is and what I have done are utterly irrelevant. If I top rope a Diff. and am honest about it, then there is no problem. The issue is that Grylls' achievements are misrepresented and bigged up to be far more noteworthy than they actually are (Yes, I know it is all done by his paymasters to make money, but that is not an excuse)
> (In reply to Scarab9)
> We Brits won't, no can't ever praise anyone who's doing something which is actually quite good. Jealousy!!!
Obviously, that is total and utter pish. Plenty of people deserve and receive praise for their achievements. In fact, I'd say the ones we slag off are in a tiny minority, the climbing press is mostly about positive stories when it comes to personal achievements.
> (In reply to mloskot)
> Yes. That was my point.
In the interests of honesty and transparency, necessary or not, that Grylls and quite a few here don't give a toss about, I should add something, bizarrely, in defence of Grylls:
This question of Grylls' evac from Antarctica was brought up on another site some time ago, and while I might agree with the sentiment expressed I don't think the underlying facts were correct, as much as you might think I would like them to be. It was brought up in this thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=442426&v=1#x6219142
And I posted there at the time that despite my views of Grylls and his people, I'm not sure the issue of dodgy/unnecessary insurance claims applied to his situation.
Since then, I have been informed by a knowledgable source that the claim that was critical to the insurer's decision, or seemed to be the one, was actually another incident around the same time, not involving Grylls. The Grylls incident may have factored into the overall picture for some of the parties involved - or not - but from what I know it was not specifically Grylls' evac that forced the decision on insurance.
> In the interests of honesty and transparency, necessary or not, that
> Grylls and quite a few here don't give a toss about, I should add
> something, bizarrely, in defence of Grylls:
> but from what I know it was not specifically Grylls' evac that
> forced the decision on insurance.
I didn't try to aim at Grylls. I actually asked with intention to get things clarified for myself too. I understand the truth behind sudden increase of BMC premiums hasn't been revealed yet. Having no hard proof, accusing Grylls is not right indeed.
> (In reply to UKC News) What an absolute tool! Would have been so easy just to do the route properly, and not much harder to fake it well. Probably had several guys just paid to chuck rocks past the camera every now and then. I bet he cried like a baby as the guide short roped him onto the top (before hiding behind a rock for the 'hero' shot)
my point exactly,you climb e2!! im sure bear can also, hardly pushing the boat out there.
if he is keeping people entertained,whats the problem.
he is a presenter of popular outdoor programmes.
i'm with you 100% on this one. It really p*sses me off too when people are wrong on the internet.
You just have to show them how wrong they are, even if it takes days and days and dozens of posts. Some people will try to make out that you are some sort of obsessed loser for doing so, but ignore them, this is a point of principle you are fighting
of course, even when shown that they are wrong, some of the haters just wont accept it. Well, you're right again, there must be something wrong with them, they are bound to be dark, troubled individuals, and no doubt sexually frustrated to boot.
People will say you sound angry yourself, but i know you're not, because this would be a stupid thing to get angry over, and you're not stupid, and if you are angry, well, its righteous anger, so that's ok
so you keep at it, eventually everyone else will stop posting, and that means that you have shown that they were wrong, and it will all have been worth it, all those hours posting here will really have paid off
> (In reply to howlingbaboon)
> my point exactly,you climb e2!! im sure bear can also, hardly pushing the boat out there.
> if he is keeping people entertained,whats the problem.
Did you read the thread before posting? Rather than parrot the same old question as others why not address the points made far above, if you see fault with them.
The 'problem' is that as Grylls' telegenic idiocy becomes more 'popular' his antics are the filter through which many more of us are seen. People with no experience of normal, genuine outdoor activity think that what he does is OK, even good, when much of it is rubbish, let alone faked. So when real incidents in the outdoor world - expeditions, climbs, accidents, disasters - hit the media a lot of people use Grylls as some kind of popular reference point. His name has become a brand associated with adventure, something the mainstream audience will recognise. Even if he and his theatre have nothing to do with the reality of adventure, survival etc.
Get in an accident in the outdoors and the media jump on you and the readers pillory you as some kind of nutcase-who-thinks-he's-Bear Grylls etc. cos all them adventure types is MAD eh! Genuine, normal outdoor people and the real outdoor industry (not his clothing line) have enough challenges with shrinking insurance options, land management,access and liability issues without us being associated with this unrepresentative pap.
Leaving aside his on-the-record conflict with animal rights activists, he presents outdoor activity as desperately adversarial, even the name 'Man vs Wild', like it's some kind of war. I thought 'wild' was a good thing. Don't we strive to protect wilderness? It's all a bit mad and crazy and whoo-hoo dangerous, so of course don't try this at home, don't even get off your ass and do anything because it's MAD out there, nature is dangerous, it's hard but don't worry, kids, Bear's a bit rufty tufty and knows what's what so watch and learn.
It's fantasy, but fantasy that leads people to misunderstand the reality on which it is supposed to be based. Why does he need to run down everything? It would be stupid, dangerous and completely unnecessary to do that in real life (eg. down a glacier) but it looks good on telly so he does it.
> (In reply to Danielg)
> i'm with you 100% on this one. It really p*sses me off too when people are wrong on the internet.
> You just have to show them how wrong they are, even if it takes days and days and dozens of posts. Some people will try to make out that you are some sort of obsessed loser for doing so, but ignore them, this is a point of principle you are fighting
> of course, even when shown that they are wrong, some of the haters just wont accept it. Well, you're right again, there must be something wrong with them, they are bound to be dark, troubled individuals, and no doubt sexually frustrated to boot.
> People will say you sound angry yourself, but i know you're not, because this would be a stupid thing to get angry over, and you're not stupid, and if you are angry, well, its righteous anger, so that's ok
> so you keep at it, eventually everyone else will stop posting, and that means that you have shown that they were wrong, and it will all have been worth it, all those hours posting here will really have paid off
> best wishes
In reply to Offwidth:
I stopped reading the Telegraph when it turned into the Daily Mail with longer words.
Elitism in Public Schools? If that's what it's about then it's hardly surprising given the reduction in assisted placers for the intelligent poor.
> (In reply to UKC News) Brear Grylls is a complete nob with a shit name. Word.
Yeah, but he's probably richer, better looking (my wife would probably say so), more influencial, has better health, gets to meet interesting people, goes to more interesting places, is more intelligent than you any many others here. Most of you, like me, probably dont see more than a climbing wall in Sheffield or a few rock in the peak district. I know who i'd rather be.
Jeez folks, I bet a lot of you on here would secretly prefer to watch soaps and Britain Got Dancing On Ice Voice or whatever rather than hard hitting documentaries about real life or hard to understand operas.
Its slighly overplayed entertainment folks, deal with it. Would any of you find yourselves falling out of a plane in the jungle or your car break down in the desert? I suspect not. My wife and kids love it, its a great hour of learning stuff they didnt know before, watching an overly enthusiastic man eat live worms and beetles whilst laughing at him swimming in sub zero temps. Do I take everything seriously, nope, do I think I must find the nearest camel to sleep in for the night, nope, will I ever find myself in the Canadian wilderness with only a rope for survival.
So he has a top rope or he sleeps in hotel, so what? We all know he does but he's a hell of a lot more entertaining than Ray Mears (who i also like before I get castrated).
Do some of you write in to complain about WWE as well. "Oh no, that wrestler isnt really hurting that man in the spandex, I must complain but it all looks so real".
Jump off those high horses folks and worry about something which needs worrying about.
> (In reply to TheDrunkenBakers)
> Most of you, like me, probably dont see more than a climbing wall in Sheffield or a few rock in the peak district. I know who i'd rather be.
> It is a shame that you feel so inadequate. Live your OWN life rather than aspire to be Edward Grylls.
> PS - wtf is WWW or whatever? You maybe do need another life.....
Perfectly content, my friend, which I why I dont see the need to complain about something which really isnt worth it. Have a look at the Ched Edwards thread, sunshine, and see something with deserves debate.
Any there again, you are not getting the point J2V. We all KNOW Bear isnt a hardcore climber, its entertainment, for crying out loud.
When the pompous on here accept that he is doing something different, like being the head of the scouts, most of whom would not be seen climbing upside down without protection. Just accept what he is, relax, and enjoy the sillyness of it and then you wont burst a blood vessel every time you hear his name.
Folks really need to chill out and get the heads from their backsides.
> Perfectly content, my friend, which I why I dont see the need to complain about something which really isnt worth it. Have a look at the Ched Edwards thread, sunshine, and see something with deserves debate.
This isn't some 'importance competition'. Congratulations for not caring about dishonesty in climbing (if only this was a climbing forum!); you can happily leave this thread to people who think it's interesting and go and chat about rape elsewhere.
Right, I'm off the the Ched Edwards thread to point out it isn't the single most important issue in the world right now so there's no point discussing it.
It's a climbing forum! Of course we're going to take the piss out of him, and he deserves it. It's those who are saying "you can't criticise him because he's richer and better than all you" that are taking things a little too seriously I think .
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> Any there again, you are not getting the point J2V. We all KNOW Bear isnt a hardcore climber, its entertainment, for crying out loud.
> When the pompous on here accept that he is doing something different, like being the head of the scouts, most of whom would not be seen climbing upside down without protection. Just accept what he is, relax, and enjoy the sillyness of it and then you wont burst a blood vessel every time you hear his name.
> Folks really need to chill out and get the heads from their backsides.
> Like, knarly, dude!!!
I accept your point. I was challenging your other point that we always have to knock people down, when it is in fact a rarity.
> It's a climbing forum! Of course we're going to take the piss out of him, and he deserves it. It's those who are saying "you can't criticise him because he's richer and better than all you" that are taking things a little too seriously I think .
In reply to GrahamD: You do yourself a disservice, Graham - I don't for one minute believe you're so far from the top of the sport as to claim that you have done something physically and mentally demanding whilst actually sitting it out in the warmth of a film-crew's Landie or, worse still, whilst chewing on sirloin n' slugging merlot at the nearest 5-star hotel!
> (In reply to UKC News)
> I liked it. So what if it's faked? Who cares!? Bear fills the imagination of the young and promotes these activities and places. Who are we to criticise? It stinks of ego and clique.
But to point out someone is lieing to the public and presenting false situations as the truth to sell a brand isn't ego and clique.
I can criticise because climbing is a huge part of my life and I hate to see it dragged down and under represented for all the things it can offer. Maybe it inspires a few kids to poke frogs with pointy sticks and torture the odd cat or to try and climb alone without a rope like Bear ???
> (In reply to UKC News)
> Oh, we are still debating this,
There is no debate. There's some people repeatedly coming on and parroting 'who cares?' without reading the thread and actually addressing the multiple reasons above why plenty of people care. Wittering defence of your apathy is not debate. If you truly don't care, don't post.
I'm not sure how you want a TV presenter (which is what BG is) is expected to present climbing ? because the truth is dull as dishwater TV for most people. Are you saying that you would rather see nothing on TV rather than a highly stylised version of the the truth ?
Its the same as trying to make a serious driving program. Its dull. Thats why we have Top Gear but do you really think of Clarkson as a serious motoring commentator or a TV presenter that talks about cars ?
Well, I for one don't care. I enjoy the show and I admire the passion of Bear and all that he is doing for bringing adventure sports and the environments in which they are undertaken into the eyes of many. If it offends you when he's found to use a hidden top-rope then quite bluntly, you need to get a life. (don't mean to be nasty ... I say it in the nicest possible way)
UKC is a climbing forum where people come to discuss the ehtics and style of climbing (amongst loads of other gumf) and many get a bit passionate about it (can you suggest another forum where they might do it?) To suggest then that anyone on UKC who criticises the way BG climbs or, more importantly, the way in which he represents his style of climbing/mountaineering needs to "get a life" seems incredibly imbalanced, naive and to be honest, gives the impression of a fawning groupie. BG has chosen to be a public figure who is making capital from his climbing exploits (amongst other things) and it seems therefore fair that he is open to comment either way on the way he goes about his business.
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer: I guess Bear manages 7 out of the 10 pledges of scout law.... Look there is a one about TRUTH, hardly a great role model.
1. A Scout is honourable, truthful and reliable.
6. A Scout is kind to animals.
10. A Scout is upright in his/her conduct.
Revised by Muppetfilter 2012
1. A Scout will claim to be Honourable Truthfull and Reliable except when toproping or staying in Luxury Hotels.
6. A Scout is kind to Animals except when he needlessly kills them in an inhumane manner for the sake of selling a few extra pairs of sweatshop manufactured trousers.
10. A Scout is Upright in His/Her conduct unlike the lass who his press agents also represented who spent a fair bit of time on her back while hitching a lift with her cameraman and got up the duff.