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Hi, just after some suggestions for some good first HVS leads on Grit please.
I am a confident VS leader and have recently lead my first HVS - Prudence (5b), Stanage Black Hawk area. Now I want to start building my confidence and consolidate the grade.
My strength is definitely technical slab climbing as opposed to thuggish overhangs (I am comfortable climbing 4c in this style but 5a is a struggle) and I would like to avoid anything too bold to begin with.
I'm also only 5"6 and don't have a huge reach.
Any suggestions (and reasons for them if possible) welcomed! As is any advice on routes to avoid for now!
I am a confident VS leader and have recently lead my first HVS - Prudence (5b), Stanage Black Hawk area. Now I want to start building my confidence and consolidate the grade.
My strength is definitely technical slab climbing as opposed to thuggish overhangs (I am comfortable climbing 4c in this style but 5a is a struggle) and I would like to avoid anything too bold to begin with.
I'm also only 5"6 and don't have a huge reach.
Any suggestions (and reasons for them if possible) welcomed! As is any advice on routes to avoid for now!
In reply to KatieB:
Knight's Move at Burbage North is the default recommendation. Not a slab, mind, and with a reachy crux, so perhaps not your style, but the reach is very well protected and the climb feels decidedly soft at the grade.
The best introductory HVS I've climbed on slabs is Extraction http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=28743 on the Dental Slab at Rylstone. Not in the Peak but very well worth the detour. The neighbouring President's slab offers the Hot Line http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=28740, a one move wonder, but, as the guide puts it: "what a move!"
Knight's Move at Burbage North is the default recommendation. Not a slab, mind, and with a reachy crux, so perhaps not your style, but the reach is very well protected and the climb feels decidedly soft at the grade.
The best introductory HVS I've climbed on slabs is Extraction http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=28743 on the Dental Slab at Rylstone. Not in the Peak but very well worth the detour. The neighbouring President's slab offers the Hot Line http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=28740, a one move wonder, but, as the guide puts it: "what a move!"
Post edited at 14:08
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In reply to BnB:
I'd say Knights move would be perfect. Its not a slab as such but its certainly not big and butch in the way of a Tower Crack or Surgeons Saunter etc.
In a similar style there is Croton Oil.
I'd say Knights move would be perfect. Its not a slab as such but its certainly not big and butch in the way of a Tower Crack or Surgeons Saunter etc.
In a similar style there is Croton Oil.
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In reply to KatieB:
Chequers Buttress at Froggatt and Croton Oil at Rivelin are both top quality, well-protected routes which, while not slabs per se, earn their grade through a more technical/delicate style of climbing
Chequers Buttress at Froggatt and Croton Oil at Rivelin are both top quality, well-protected routes which, while not slabs per se, earn their grade through a more technical/delicate style of climbing
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In reply to kingborris:
Not much of a route though, fun to solo but a bit short lived if you're faffing with gear?
Not much of a route though, fun to solo but a bit short lived if you're faffing with gear?
In reply to KatieB:
Knights Move is a good suggestion but it is a VS in all but name.
Dovers wall, Route Two - Stanage
Lancashire Wall - Stanage (not a slab but the steepening is short lived)
Queersville - Stanage (delicate and not smothered in gear but a lovely route and it rewards those who can stand on their feet)
Bamford Rib and Happy Wanderer - Bamford (Happy Wanderer might have a slight reach at the top)
Peddlers Slab and Arete are nice at Stanage, but again, more micro routes/solos than climbs.
HVS is a tricky grade as they all feel either full on physical battles (brutal, thrutchy, hard work) or VS. It's not till you get to E1 that you seem to get nice paddy slabs again. No idea why........
Knights Move is a good suggestion but it is a VS in all but name.
Dovers wall, Route Two - Stanage
Lancashire Wall - Stanage (not a slab but the steepening is short lived)
Queersville - Stanage (delicate and not smothered in gear but a lovely route and it rewards those who can stand on their feet)
Bamford Rib and Happy Wanderer - Bamford (Happy Wanderer might have a slight reach at the top)
Peddlers Slab and Arete are nice at Stanage, but again, more micro routes/solos than climbs.
HVS is a tricky grade as they all feel either full on physical battles (brutal, thrutchy, hard work) or VS. It's not till you get to E1 that you seem to get nice paddy slabs again. No idea why........
Post edited at 14:42
In reply to KatieB:
Three Pebble Slab (HVS 5a), although some think its E1
*grabs coat*
n.b. probably not the best second HVS as it's a bit bold.
Three Pebble Slab (HVS 5a), although some think its E1
*grabs coat*
n.b. probably not the best second HVS as it's a bit bold.
Post edited at 14:25
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In reply to KatieB:
Another one is this Mississippi Variant (HVS 5a) it climbs like a steep slab in the main (once you leave the VS crack) although it is following a crack line in places - its soft in the grade.
The best ones I've done are as mentioned above are chequers buttress and croiton oil
Another option after you've lead a few is this http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10913 the climbing is quite hard for HVS but you can get plenty of runners in the severe to the side (that's how its graded). I think you will really like the climbing but the route does feel quite eliminate.
Another one is this Mississippi Variant (HVS 5a) it climbs like a steep slab in the main (once you leave the VS crack) although it is following a crack line in places - its soft in the grade.
The best ones I've done are as mentioned above are chequers buttress and croiton oil
Another option after you've lead a few is this http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10913 the climbing is quite hard for HVS but you can get plenty of runners in the severe to the side (that's how its graded). I think you will really like the climbing but the route does feel quite eliminate.
Post edited at 14:34
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In reply to galpinos:
dovers wall route two is quite steep and go-y on the crux although soft and well protected I agree
dovers wall route two is quite steep and go-y on the crux although soft and well protected I agree
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Good climb but that crux move is hard even with the protection!!
> Another option after you've lead a few is this C.M.C. Slab (HVS 5a) the climbing is quite hard for HVS but you can get plenty of runners in the severe to the side (that's how its graded). I think you will really like the climbing but the route does feel quite eliminate.
Good climb but that crux move is hard even with the protection!!
In reply to BnB:
yeah I just figured the OP could put it in the bucket list. It looks about as hard as it is I think.
yeah I just figured the OP could put it in the bucket list. It looks about as hard as it is I think.
Post edited at 14:35
In reply to KatieB:
Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) - Slab, HVS, easy at the grade - what more could you ask for!
However I'd recommend saving this one for a day when you want to do TPS - I did them both on the same day, and doing Sunset slab first was a good confidence boost.
Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) - Slab, HVS, easy at the grade - what more could you ask for!
However I'd recommend saving this one for a day when you want to do TPS - I did them both on the same day, and doing Sunset slab first was a good confidence boost.
In reply to KatieB:
One or two odd suggestions here, Chequers Arete is pretty reachy and Pedlar's Rib is E1!
Chris
One or two odd suggestions here, Chequers Arete is pretty reachy and Pedlar's Rib is E1!
Chris
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In reply to KatieB:
Just in case you aren't aware of these lists
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/graded.php?area=1
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/graded.php?area=7
You don't really want to take advice from me - there's a risk my suggestions would be bold and reachy - but maybe GNR, LCH or Svelt at Millstone, or Old Salt at Stanage ( http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=398)
Just in case you aren't aware of these lists
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/graded.php?area=1
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/graded.php?area=7
You don't really want to take advice from me - there's a risk my suggestions would be bold and reachy - but maybe GNR, LCH or Svelt at Millstone, or Old Salt at Stanage ( http://www.rockfax.com/databases/r.php?i=398)
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
It's a while since I've done it so the OP should go with your opinion here!
> dovers wall route two is quite steep and go-y on the crux although soft and well protected I agree
It's a while since I've done it so the OP should go with your opinion here!
In reply to KatieB:
Speaking as a fellow slab-lover dipping my toes into HVS -- it might be worth having a look at Svelt (HVS 5a) at Millstone.
Well-protected, most people seem to think it's low in the grade, and most of it's a technical slabby corner. The finish is steep but short-lived, and there's a little ledge before it so you can rest, slot in lots of gear and psyche yourself up.
(Ah, beaten to it by Chris the Tall. But I can vouch that it's not bold, and didn't feel reachy to me at circa 5' 7".)
Speaking as a fellow slab-lover dipping my toes into HVS -- it might be worth having a look at Svelt (HVS 5a) at Millstone.
Well-protected, most people seem to think it's low in the grade, and most of it's a technical slabby corner. The finish is steep but short-lived, and there's a little ledge before it so you can rest, slot in lots of gear and psyche yourself up.
(Ah, beaten to it by Chris the Tall. But I can vouch that it's not bold, and didn't feel reachy to me at circa 5' 7".)
Post edited at 14:45
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In reply to KatieB:
Also how good are you with jamming? If you're pretty solid at jamming, you should find Bond Street (HVS 5a) quite a cakewalk.
Also how good are you with jamming? If you're pretty solid at jamming, you should find Bond Street (HVS 5a) quite a cakewalk.
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In reply to Chris Craggs:
I said Pedlar's Arete didn't I......... (cheeky edit)
> One or two odd suggestions here, Chequers Arete is pretty reachy and Pedlar's Rib is E1!
> Chris
I said Pedlar's Arete didn't I......... (cheeky edit)
In reply to galpinos:
I wouldn't recommend this for someone 5'6 without a long reach. It's a jump for me to reach the good holds under the roof from the ledge (where the good gear goes).
> Queersville – Stanage (delicate and not smothered in gear but a lovely route and it rewards those who can stand on their feet)
I wouldn't recommend this for someone 5'6 without a long reach. It's a jump for me to reach the good holds under the roof from the ledge (where the good gear goes).
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
I stand corrected again! Do you really have to jump?
> I wouldn't recommend this for someone 5'6 without a long reach. It's a jump for me to reach the good holds under the roof from the ledge (where the good gear goes).
I stand corrected again! Do you really have to jump?
In reply to Dave Garnett:
I'm 5'7 and I don't have any recollection of it being about a long reach. Isn't there some kind of intermediate move there?
I'm 5'7 and I don't have any recollection of it being about a long reach. Isn't there some kind of intermediate move there?
In reply to galpinos:
Having done Pedlar's Arete, I'd say the OP might well want to put it on their wish-list for the future as it's a lovely technical slab, but I wouldn't call the gear overly confidence-inspiring, and there's a longish runout along the traverse after the crux, even if you are on much easier ground by then.
Might depend on where the OP's current threshold for "too bold" is?
And Pedlar's Slab has no gear until well after the crux, IIRC.
> I said Pedlar's Arete didn't I......... (cheeky edit)
Having done Pedlar's Arete, I'd say the OP might well want to put it on their wish-list for the future as it's a lovely technical slab, but I wouldn't call the gear overly confidence-inspiring, and there's a longish runout along the traverse after the crux, even if you are on much easier ground by then.
Might depend on where the OP's current threshold for "too bold" is?
And Pedlar's Slab has no gear until well after the crux, IIRC.
In reply to KatieB:
As already mentioned, Croton Oil. It's brilliant with good gear, has to be a top 5 grit HVS?
Tody's Wall at Froggatt? Tricky/hilarious getting onto the block if you can't reach the break easily then an impossible feeling crux however, it's actually straightforward once you commit. Then after that, a nice slab and crack up the final wall.
Plenty of low-grade HVS at Stanage Popular too, you could have a really good day there ticking them off.
As already mentioned, Croton Oil. It's brilliant with good gear, has to be a top 5 grit HVS?
Tody's Wall at Froggatt? Tricky/hilarious getting onto the block if you can't reach the break easily then an impossible feeling crux however, it's actually straightforward once you commit. Then after that, a nice slab and crack up the final wall.
Plenty of low-grade HVS at Stanage Popular too, you could have a really good day there ticking them off.
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In reply to KatieB:
Prudence is a tricky little number - an excellent start to the HVS grade! Chapeau!! Apart from the more obvious thuggy ones, you can pick-and-choose at will. My first grit HVS was Queersville (5a) (much easier than Prudence, I'd say) followed by The Flange (5b) What about Rugosity Crack at Stanage, or almost any of the HVSs at Bamford? On grit I always think - if you like the look of a climb within your compass -try it!
Prudence is a tricky little number - an excellent start to the HVS grade! Chapeau!! Apart from the more obvious thuggy ones, you can pick-and-choose at will. My first grit HVS was Queersville (5a) (much easier than Prudence, I'd say) followed by The Flange (5b) What about Rugosity Crack at Stanage, or almost any of the HVSs at Bamford? On grit I always think - if you like the look of a climb within your compass -try it!
In reply to galpinos:
And is quite reachy
> Queersville - Stanage (delicate and not smothered in gear but a lovely route and it rewards those who can stand on their feet)
And is quite reachy
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
What is this - dwarf's corner? I'm 5'6 and always found it reachy. Have only ever soloed it though (lots of times) so no jumping for me, thank you. I always seem to note gear possibilities even when soloing (go figure) and Queersville always seemed OK but far from brilliant. I just wouldn't recommend it as an early HVS. Would also not recommend Sunset Slab. OK it's technically easy (and Brown got a cam in that pocket) but...
From the suggestions above, I'd go for Bond Street - surely as safe as it gets. With a probe into the next grade up, I'd be looking for safety most of all. There are loads of good, safe HVS cracks at Millstone.
All I can remember of Croton Oil is that it was a superb little route. Maybe a good choice too as the crag is quite sheltered.
Mick
What is this - dwarf's corner? I'm 5'6 and always found it reachy. Have only ever soloed it though (lots of times) so no jumping for me, thank you. I always seem to note gear possibilities even when soloing (go figure) and Queersville always seemed OK but far from brilliant. I just wouldn't recommend it as an early HVS. Would also not recommend Sunset Slab. OK it's technically easy (and Brown got a cam in that pocket) but...
From the suggestions above, I'd go for Bond Street - surely as safe as it gets. With a probe into the next grade up, I'd be looking for safety most of all. There are loads of good, safe HVS cracks at Millstone.
All I can remember of Croton Oil is that it was a superb little route. Maybe a good choice too as the crag is quite sheltered.
Mick
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In reply to KatieB: I was in a similar place to you last year ( sadly nowhere near this year) and second recs for Knights Move and Chequers Buttress. Sunset slab is nice enough but pretty much unprotected. Lancashire Wall is fine up until the last reachy move which I didn't get. I did manage to do it on a rope a couple of weeks ago and it didn't seem so bad but it is easily escapable if you can't do it,
In reply to KatieB:
I wondered about Queersville but wasn't sure about it being a bit reachy for someone who's 5ft6. Although with most HVSs they're rarely ever truly reachy in the sense that there is simply no other way to climb it than make a very long reach. What was it Brown said when asked how he'd reached the holds? "I climbed up to them". The gear on Queersville is good when you get it and just about sufficient in quantity. I remember thinking that just when you got to the next piece was just when the last piece was becoming redundant. An excellent route at any rate.
Extraction at Rylstone is a bit of a sandbag (and not in the requested area). The 5b boulder problem start is not one to fall off without a pad and is going to feel stiff to a new HVSer. And then it's quite goey, although the OP does say she likes slabs. But then most people breaking into HVS think they like slabs, but what they really mean is that their physical strength and technique on steep ground has not yet caught up with their head and their footwork. Well, there's only one way to fix that!
Best suggestion so far (of the ones I've done) must be Chequer's Buttress? Safe as houses, not thuggy, technical. The difficulty is in finding the hidden hold around the corner and if you get that then you're laughing. And it's a classic.
I wondered about Queersville but wasn't sure about it being a bit reachy for someone who's 5ft6. Although with most HVSs they're rarely ever truly reachy in the sense that there is simply no other way to climb it than make a very long reach. What was it Brown said when asked how he'd reached the holds? "I climbed up to them". The gear on Queersville is good when you get it and just about sufficient in quantity. I remember thinking that just when you got to the next piece was just when the last piece was becoming redundant. An excellent route at any rate.
Extraction at Rylstone is a bit of a sandbag (and not in the requested area). The 5b boulder problem start is not one to fall off without a pad and is going to feel stiff to a new HVSer. And then it's quite goey, although the OP does say she likes slabs. But then most people breaking into HVS think they like slabs, but what they really mean is that their physical strength and technique on steep ground has not yet caught up with their head and their footwork. Well, there's only one way to fix that!
Best suggestion so far (of the ones I've done) must be Chequer's Buttress? Safe as houses, not thuggy, technical. The difficulty is in finding the hidden hold around the corner and if you get that then you're laughing. And it's a classic.
Post edited at 15:39
In reply to KatieB:
I love hvs grit slabs! a few not above
Blizzard ridge whilst you're doing Croton Oil at Rivelin (don't stray onto white out)
Stanage: Tower face, Cold Turkey, Leaning buttress direct, Billiard buttress or just push the boat a little for milsom's minion as first e1 (share start which is harder to protect if you can't reach the crack from the ground), Lucy's slab has a fun little move
castle naze - scoop face (short steep bit at top)
I love hvs grit slabs! a few not above
Blizzard ridge whilst you're doing Croton Oil at Rivelin (don't stray onto white out)
Stanage: Tower face, Cold Turkey, Leaning buttress direct, Billiard buttress or just push the boat a little for milsom's minion as first e1 (share start which is harder to protect if you can't reach the crack from the ground), Lucy's slab has a fun little move
castle naze - scoop face (short steep bit at top)
In reply to KatieB:
Flippin' 'eck! Is Sunset Slab really getting HVS now? There's only so far the "we'll have to upgrade it to scare the punters away" argument will go. It'll be E9 before we know it!
Best route on Western Grit that fits the spec must be Pebbledash?
Flippin' 'eck! Is Sunset Slab really getting HVS now? There's only so far the "we'll have to upgrade it to scare the punters away" argument will go. It'll be E9 before we know it!
Best route on Western Grit that fits the spec must be Pebbledash?
Post edited at 15:46
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In reply to Will Hunt:
Even the guidebook recommendes eliminating the boulder start for a more balanced 5a route. Goey? Only for a couple of moves above the gear and then you realise how good the friction really is. It's still not in the Peak though
> Extraction at Rylstone is a bit of a sandbag (and not in the requested area). The 5b boulder problem start is not one to fall off without a pad and is going to feel stiff to a new HVSer. And then it's quite goey, although the OP does say she likes slabs. But then most people breaking into HVS think they like slabs, but what they really mean is that their physical strength and technique on steep ground has not yet caught up with their head and their footwork. Well, there's only one way to fix that!
Even the guidebook recommendes eliminating the boulder start for a more balanced 5a route. Goey? Only for a couple of moves above the gear and then you realise how good the friction really is. It's still not in the Peak though
In reply to BnB:
I'll grant you that Rylstone is perhaps the frictioniest gritstone crag out there. It does take a few routes to realise just how good it is. Or is it a perspective thing and those slabs are slabbier than they look? The mysteries of Rylstone...
I'll grant you that Rylstone is perhaps the frictioniest gritstone crag out there. It does take a few routes to realise just how good it is. Or is it a perspective thing and those slabs are slabbier than they look? The mysteries of Rylstone...
In reply to Will Hunt:
I thought of pebble dash - personally I think its VS up the crack, and about HS 4c across the slab (as there is gear above you half way across and a good foot hold and its no where near the limit of hvs friction). I've done it twice and can't see why it get's HVS.
I thought of pebble dash - personally I think its VS up the crack, and about HS 4c across the slab (as there is gear above you half way across and a good foot hold and its no where near the limit of hvs friction). I've done it twice and can't see why it get's HVS.
Post edited at 16:03
In reply to Will Hunt:
Sunset Slab has been HVS for at least 20 years, and possibly a lot longer then that,
Chris
> Flippin' 'eck! Is Sunset Slab really getting HVS now? There's only so far the "we'll have to upgrade it to scare the punters away" argument will go. It'll be E9 before we know it!
Sunset Slab has been HVS for at least 20 years, and possibly a lot longer then that,
Chris
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In reply to KatieB:
Queersville (Stanage) is one of my all time favourite HVSs, mentioned by a previous post. It's also my profile picture.
Perhaps too much beta, but notice the run out from the last pieces of gear. Ground fall potential most of the way
till good gear above my head. I'm 5' 9" and found the reach to the overhang a bit of a stretch!
A brilliant route that tests your nerve.
Was told Centre Stage HVS5a (Stanage) good and safe. It's on my list.
Queersville (Stanage) is one of my all time favourite HVSs, mentioned by a previous post. It's also my profile picture.
Perhaps too much beta, but notice the run out from the last pieces of gear. Ground fall potential most of the way
till good gear above my head. I'm 5' 9" and found the reach to the overhang a bit of a stretch!
A brilliant route that tests your nerve.
Was told Centre Stage HVS5a (Stanage) good and safe. It's on my list.
Post edited at 16:09
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'm inclined to agree with you. But then these slabs can often feel soft when you can just do 'em.
And for a steady VS leader the main difficulty of doing a first HVS is getting on one, so it can't hurt to tick a softy to start with. A spanking could make it the last HVS! Kelly's Overhang anyone?
I'm inclined to agree with you. But then these slabs can often feel soft when you can just do 'em.
And for a steady VS leader the main difficulty of doing a first HVS is getting on one, so it can't hurt to tick a softy to start with. A spanking could make it the last HVS! Kelly's Overhang anyone?
In reply to galpinos:
More of a hop. It's one where when I first get onto the ledge I can't reach the break. If I fidget around, find the highest little edge, stand on tippy toes on my right foot and really stretch with my left hand over about 10 minutes I grow enough to just latch it. Another inch of reach would make all the difference and then I dare say I'd barely notice it.
I'm about 5'6 but seem taller.
I'm quite good at using intermediate holds (case of having to be!) and it isn't obvious to me that there are any.
> I stand corrected again! Do you really have to jump?
More of a hop. It's one where when I first get onto the ledge I can't reach the break. If I fidget around, find the highest little edge, stand on tippy toes on my right foot and really stretch with my left hand over about 10 minutes I grow enough to just latch it. Another inch of reach would make all the difference and then I dare say I'd barely notice it.
I'm about 5'6 but seem taller.
I'm quite good at using intermediate holds (case of having to be!) and it isn't obvious to me that there are any.
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In reply to KatieB:
Parker's Eliminate (HVS 5a) at Hobson Moor would fit the bill: decent gear and although not really a slab, the climbing is technical rather than thuggy.
Parker's Eliminate (HVS 5a) at Hobson Moor would fit the bill: decent gear and although not really a slab, the climbing is technical rather than thuggy.
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In reply to KatieB:
To be a bit more positive, how about:
Avalanche Wall, Curbar - I've done this quite a few times and it always feels pretty straightforward, not too steep and well protected. Neighbouring Peapod is a bit marmitey - I think it's OK and well protected but can be awkward.
On Western grit, the graded list linked above is pretty good, I'd particularly recommend:
Baldstones Arete, Baldstones: balancy and steady (not on a windy day!)
Scoop Face, Castle Naze: friendly and well protected if you can get up the first 10 feet!
Portfolio, Windgather: short fingery crux just below the top but well protected.
Diamond Wednesday, Roaches: a bit of an eliminate, nice position but good gear.
Libra, Roaches: steady up a technical groove, needs small wires if I remember correctly.
To be a bit more positive, how about:
Avalanche Wall, Curbar - I've done this quite a few times and it always feels pretty straightforward, not too steep and well protected. Neighbouring Peapod is a bit marmitey - I think it's OK and well protected but can be awkward.
On Western grit, the graded list linked above is pretty good, I'd particularly recommend:
Baldstones Arete, Baldstones: balancy and steady (not on a windy day!)
Scoop Face, Castle Naze: friendly and well protected if you can get up the first 10 feet!
Portfolio, Windgather: short fingery crux just below the top but well protected.
Diamond Wednesday, Roaches: a bit of an eliminate, nice position but good gear.
Libra, Roaches: steady up a technical groove, needs small wires if I remember correctly.
In reply to SenzuBean:
Gear?
Not wanting to be a pedant, but OP said "I would like to avoid anything too bold to begin with."
Please don't think I'm knocking the route, its a lovely bit of slab climbing, and I've done it many, many times.
> Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) - Slab, HVS, easy at the grade - what more could you ask for!
Gear?
Not wanting to be a pedant, but OP said "I would like to avoid anything too bold to begin with."
Please don't think I'm knocking the route, its a lovely bit of slab climbing, and I've done it many, many times.
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In reply to John_Hat:
Ah yes - you're correct. I hadn't noticed that part. With that said, I still think Sunset Slab is an extremely easy HVS (I didn't even think it was 4b to be honest, felt like 4a), and would still recommend it. I've been more scared soloing VDiffs than I did 'leading' Sunset Slab.
> Gear?
> Not wanting to be a pedant, but OP said "I would like to avoid anything too bold to begin with."
> Please don't think I'm knocking the route, its a lovely bit of slab climbing, and I've done it many, many times.
Ah yes - you're correct. I hadn't noticed that part. With that said, I still think Sunset Slab is an extremely easy HVS (I didn't even think it was 4b to be honest, felt like 4a), and would still recommend it. I've been more scared soloing VDiffs than I did 'leading' Sunset Slab.
In reply to SenzuBean:
When I last walked past Sunset Slab a few years ago, there was a guy on it who'd got about 6-7 quite decent looking runners on it. I was astonished. None looked like they would fall out I think I've got a picture of it somewhere.
When I last walked past Sunset Slab a few years ago, there was a guy on it who'd got about 6-7 quite decent looking runners on it. I was astonished. None looked like they would fall out I think I've got a picture of it somewhere.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
I've always found this quite tricky.
> To be a bit more positive, how about:
> Avalanche Wall, Curbar - I've done this quite a few times and it always feels pretty straightforward, not too steep and well protected.
I've always found this quite tricky.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I don't know if I believe it!
> When I last walked past Sunset Slab a few years ago, there was a guy on it who'd got about 6-7 quite decent looking runners on it. I was astonished. None looked like they would fall out I think I've got a picture of it somewhere.
I don't know if I believe it!
In reply to KatieB:
My first HVS lead was Bond Street and I'm 5'4" so I understand the reach issue.
Pebbledash at the Roaches is another good shout although it was only VS 5a when I led it. And I did fall off the traverse on Sunday while seconding. .....
My first HVS lead was Bond Street and I'm 5'4" so I understand the reach issue.
Pebbledash at the Roaches is another good shout although it was only VS 5a when I led it. And I did fall off the traverse on Sunday while seconding. .....
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Please try and find this picky - I'd love to see it.
I've always thought there must be a cam out there that will fit one of the pockets perfectly - it just doesn't happen to be on my rack.
I've always thought there must be a cam out there that will fit one of the pockets perfectly - it just doesn't happen to be on my rack.
In reply to Michael Hood:
A #2 (red) slider/ball nut fits perfectly in the back of the big pocket...
A #2 (red) slider/ball nut fits perfectly in the back of the big pocket...
In reply to charley:
I think it's a lot harder for shorter climbers even if the break is reached, and would be much more dynamic (I suspect anyway, I haven't managed to become shorter yet to test the idea!) than it is for taller climbers to make 'the move'.
> As already mentioned, Croton Oil. It's brilliant with good gear, has to be a top 5 grit HVS?
> Tody's Wall at Froggatt? Tricky/hilarious getting onto the block if you can't reach the break easily then an impossible feeling crux however, it's actually straightforward once you commit. Then after that, a nice slab and crack up the final wall.
I think it's a lot harder for shorter climbers even if the break is reached, and would be much more dynamic (I suspect anyway, I haven't managed to become shorter yet to test the idea!) than it is for taller climbers to make 'the move'.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Chequers Buttress is fine at 5'7 - but I remember feeling glad I wasn't much shorter...
Chequers Buttress is fine at 5'7 - but I remember feeling glad I wasn't much shorter...
Post edited at 21:10
In reply to KatieB:
Some of my early HVS ticks, (and I favoured slab climbing to overhangs) included:
Froggatt
Sundowner (using Sunset Crack for a key runner before the overlap) HVS 5A (the guidebook said so)...
CMC Slab (using the occasional runner in Heather Wall on the right... the guidebook... ) HVS 5B
Curbur (at the Froggatt end)
Green Acres HVS 5A (I think this was E1 5B in the Blue Froggatt guide) but there is good gear where you need it (a nut for the overlap and a cam on the slab).
Short Slab HVS 5A - I remember good pockets over the overlap and pleasant slab climbing and a runner above...
These are all leads I did in the 1990's and so I may be wrong about some of the detail as I haven't got my Froggatt guidebook to hand.
I am 5ft 11in... since height has been mention-worthy on this thread... just so you know.
Good Luck!
Jim
Some of my early HVS ticks, (and I favoured slab climbing to overhangs) included:
Froggatt
Sundowner (using Sunset Crack for a key runner before the overlap) HVS 5A (the guidebook said so)...
CMC Slab (using the occasional runner in Heather Wall on the right... the guidebook... ) HVS 5B
Curbur (at the Froggatt end)
Green Acres HVS 5A (I think this was E1 5B in the Blue Froggatt guide) but there is good gear where you need it (a nut for the overlap and a cam on the slab).
Short Slab HVS 5A - I remember good pockets over the overlap and pleasant slab climbing and a runner above...
These are all leads I did in the 1990's and so I may be wrong about some of the detail as I haven't got my Froggatt guidebook to hand.
I am 5ft 11in... since height has been mention-worthy on this thread... just so you know.
Good Luck!
Jim
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In reply to KatieB:
Croton Oil (HVS 5a) is the second best route I've lead in my (relatively short) climbing life.
Land's End Long Climb (HVD) is probably the best.
Croton Oil (HVS 5a) is the second best route I've lead in my (relatively short) climbing life.
Land's End Long Climb (HVD) is probably the best.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Avalanche Wall is another good recommendation. Steady, well protected, technically interesting/enjoyable. Not particularly memorable.
Peapod is way harder. Absolutely fascinating, a megaclassic, and feels much longer and bigger than it is. Right near top of grade, though, I'd say.
Avalanche Wall is another good recommendation. Steady, well protected, technically interesting/enjoyable. Not particularly memorable.
Peapod is way harder. Absolutely fascinating, a megaclassic, and feels much longer and bigger than it is. Right near top of grade, though, I'd say.
In reply to KatieB:
Rubberneck and Crabbies crack at the Roaches Clouds are well-protected
Pisa SuperDirect at Shining Clough - short crux, well-protected
Rubberneck and Crabbies crack at the Roaches Clouds are well-protected
Pisa SuperDirect at Shining Clough - short crux, well-protected
In reply to KatieB:
Hi Katie!
I would definitely echo other posts here and recommend Sunset Slab Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) at Froggatt. I know you said you would prefer to avoid big bold run-outs (last runner is half way up the route) but it is fantastic slab climbing which u clearly prefer and technically quite easy too (4c I think). The only reason it's HVS is due to the bold nature. I think u would enjoy it. Alternatively there is Scoop Face at Castle Naze which after a tricky start has more great slabby climbing. A massive reach isn't necessary for either and I think you would enjoy both.
J
Hi Katie!
I would definitely echo other posts here and recommend Sunset Slab Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) at Froggatt. I know you said you would prefer to avoid big bold run-outs (last runner is half way up the route) but it is fantastic slab climbing which u clearly prefer and technically quite easy too (4c I think). The only reason it's HVS is due to the bold nature. I think u would enjoy it. Alternatively there is Scoop Face at Castle Naze which after a tricky start has more great slabby climbing. A massive reach isn't necessary for either and I think you would enjoy both.
J
Post edited at 14:25
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In reply to JJL:
Yes, Rubberneck is ace and the start features some elegant technical bridging which can be used to overcome any lack of reach. The gear is perfect.
> Rubberneck and Crabbies crack at the Roaches Clouds are well-protected
Yes, Rubberneck is ace and the start features some elegant technical bridging which can be used to overcome any lack of reach. The gear is perfect.
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In reply to Rocknast:
To be honest I'm quite comfortable with a 4b slabby run out so I might give it a look. When I say "not too bold" I'm more concerned with the 5a(+) moves being well protected.
> Hi Katie!
> I would definitely echo other posts here and recommend Sunset Slab Sunset Slab (HVS 4b) at Froggatt. I know you said you would prefer to avoid big bold run-outs (last runner is half way up the route) but it is fantastic slab climbing which u clearly prefer and technically quite easy too (4c I think). The only reason it's HVS is due to the bold nature. I think u would enjoy it. Alternatively there is Scoop Face at Castle Naze which after a tricky start has more great slabby climbing. A massive reach isn't necessary for either and I think you would enjoy both.
> J
To be honest I'm quite comfortable with a 4b slabby run out so I might give it a look. When I say "not too bold" I'm more concerned with the 5a(+) moves being well protected.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
Rubberneck is a good HVS. Gear where it's needed. Not thuggy. Layback after the starting puzzle and then balancy at the top.
Rubberneck is a good HVS. Gear where it's needed. Not thuggy. Layback after the starting puzzle and then balancy at the top.
In reply to KatieB:
I'm hesitant to recommend routes on such threads as it really depends on your skill set. Hence I'm much happier with points to take note of (they may not worry you depending on your strengths).
Sunset Slab is one of the boldest HVS climbs on grit and has a few tricky moves where you will deck from high up on a less than ideal landing if you start to panic (I've rescued a few climbers off this only just in time). The grade tells you its equivalent to an onsight solo of a HS. The Knights Move start is reachy and bold (and anyone sensible knows it's VS so why bother... the so called reachy crux above is safe and isn't reachy or the crux). Queersville (my first onsight HVS.. other than subsequent upgrades) is reachy below the crux finger flake as Dave Garnett points out.. its is also pretty bold below.
On the safe side. Peapod is a potential full on total body pump experience but trivial if you are really good at chimneys and jamming Friend 2 sized cracks. Bond St you also need to know how to jam.
Of my fellow experienced guidebook workers Dave Garnett as a shortie is normally reliable on his suggestions but unusually I'd avoid all of them as a very early HVS onsight except the quite tough for the grade Avalanche Wall (for various reasons). Chris Craggs (the most experienced of all of us) is correct in his comments in my view.
Chris the Tall ironically has a reasonable list for the short.
My 5.6 partner with a negative ape index did Short Slab at Curbar as her first and breezed it but she is a pure slab maestro.
I'm hesitant to recommend routes on such threads as it really depends on your skill set. Hence I'm much happier with points to take note of (they may not worry you depending on your strengths).
Sunset Slab is one of the boldest HVS climbs on grit and has a few tricky moves where you will deck from high up on a less than ideal landing if you start to panic (I've rescued a few climbers off this only just in time). The grade tells you its equivalent to an onsight solo of a HS. The Knights Move start is reachy and bold (and anyone sensible knows it's VS so why bother... the so called reachy crux above is safe and isn't reachy or the crux). Queersville (my first onsight HVS.. other than subsequent upgrades) is reachy below the crux finger flake as Dave Garnett points out.. its is also pretty bold below.
On the safe side. Peapod is a potential full on total body pump experience but trivial if you are really good at chimneys and jamming Friend 2 sized cracks. Bond St you also need to know how to jam.
Of my fellow experienced guidebook workers Dave Garnett as a shortie is normally reliable on his suggestions but unusually I'd avoid all of them as a very early HVS onsight except the quite tough for the grade Avalanche Wall (for various reasons). Chris Craggs (the most experienced of all of us) is correct in his comments in my view.
Chris the Tall ironically has a reasonable list for the short.
My 5.6 partner with a negative ape index did Short Slab at Curbar as her first and breezed it but she is a pure slab maestro.
Post edited at 10:59
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In reply to Offwidth:
katie as a 160 cm (5'3") climber I can probably help a bit
I had a complete 'mare on Queersville....couldnt reach to place gear after the traverse , but found the Knights Move ok because although the start has little gear the moves are not hard. Todys wall is burly and if you are little you will have to do an intermediate smeary move at the crux, but its safe as houses because the gear is at the lip and its bomber. Peapod is probably that rare thing, easier for the short (so long as you can back and foot). Chequers Buttress has a reachy move at the arete but the gear protecting the reachy bit is very good (at your feet when you do the move, but the fall is safe) so you can go for it... there are sneaky solutions for the short. CMC slab might suit you...its technical but you are allowed side runners, the guide suggests two at the grade so keep one for the quite high crux. Pedestal crack at froggat has no reach issues. Tower face is balancy rather than reachy, just be wary of placing gear in the rather rickety flake...its good for holds though and you get good gear again once you stand up. and Leaning Buttress Direct might suit you...its got a hard and bouldery first few moves but its quite low down and a bouldering mat would make it feel a lot more user-friendly
katie as a 160 cm (5'3") climber I can probably help a bit
I had a complete 'mare on Queersville....couldnt reach to place gear after the traverse , but found the Knights Move ok because although the start has little gear the moves are not hard. Todys wall is burly and if you are little you will have to do an intermediate smeary move at the crux, but its safe as houses because the gear is at the lip and its bomber. Peapod is probably that rare thing, easier for the short (so long as you can back and foot). Chequers Buttress has a reachy move at the arete but the gear protecting the reachy bit is very good (at your feet when you do the move, but the fall is safe) so you can go for it... there are sneaky solutions for the short. CMC slab might suit you...its technical but you are allowed side runners, the guide suggests two at the grade so keep one for the quite high crux. Pedestal crack at froggat has no reach issues. Tower face is balancy rather than reachy, just be wary of placing gear in the rather rickety flake...its good for holds though and you get good gear again once you stand up. and Leaning Buttress Direct might suit you...its got a hard and bouldery first few moves but its quite low down and a bouldering mat would make it feel a lot more user-friendly
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In reply to pebbles:
Did you onsight Knights Move as most people don't usually find those bold start moves that easy first time. Moff refuses to accept the so called crux is reachy... its an obvious 4c rockover that is not a stretch even with her short arms.. she found the moves to the next break harder in reach terms and couldn't reach to place nuts at the top of the bold section as comfortably as I could (which makes the start bolder).
Did you onsight Knights Move as most people don't usually find those bold start moves that easy first time. Moff refuses to accept the so called crux is reachy... its an obvious 4c rockover that is not a stretch even with her short arms.. she found the moves to the next break harder in reach terms and couldn't reach to place nuts at the top of the bold section as comfortably as I could (which makes the start bolder).
Post edited at 11:24
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In reply to Offwidth:
I found the hardest bit moving up to that second big hole at the start..cant remember if I onsighted or not, I'v repeated since but I first did it ages ago as one of my first HVS's. The solution for doing it as an early hvs lead might be to use a mat? its low enough that that will make all the difference to your head. purists will disagree but its all about making progress in your climbing and breaking into a new grade . I agree about the higher 'crux' , its a rockover with good gear
I found the hardest bit moving up to that second big hole at the start..cant remember if I onsighted or not, I'v repeated since but I first did it ages ago as one of my first HVS's. The solution for doing it as an early hvs lead might be to use a mat? its low enough that that will make all the difference to your head. purists will disagree but its all about making progress in your climbing and breaking into a new grade . I agree about the higher 'crux' , its a rockover with good gear
In reply to KatieB:
Are you confident on VS cracks? If so maybe try some HVS cracks too because they tend to be safe even if you find the climbing hard, and I do! I am far from consolidated at grit HVS, but I've now on sighted a fair few. My recommendations will be well protected before anything else as I'm a wuss and can't pull hard if I'm scared.
Parker's Eliminate (HVS 5a) is nice and I remember as quite straightforward, but being on quarried grit, possibly cheating. Ditto Bond Street. Also at Millstone Great North Road (HVS 5a) seemed like a VS that just keeps going. Avalanche Wall (HVS 5a) is another early one I managed after moving to Sheffield after a long time far away from any grit, but I thought the crux was tough. Tody's Wall I did ages ago but I remember thinking it was surprisingly OK once you get on it. Brooks' Crack (HVS 5a) went surprisingly easily for me; I did break a rib doing it but I'm sure you don't need to do that too!
I also enjoyed Goliath's Groove (HVS 5a) at Stanage but you probably need to find udging up wide cracks fun to find it reasonably straight forward like I did. One to do in pair of jeans or cordura troos!
Are you confident on VS cracks? If so maybe try some HVS cracks too because they tend to be safe even if you find the climbing hard, and I do! I am far from consolidated at grit HVS, but I've now on sighted a fair few. My recommendations will be well protected before anything else as I'm a wuss and can't pull hard if I'm scared.
Parker's Eliminate (HVS 5a) is nice and I remember as quite straightforward, but being on quarried grit, possibly cheating. Ditto Bond Street. Also at Millstone Great North Road (HVS 5a) seemed like a VS that just keeps going. Avalanche Wall (HVS 5a) is another early one I managed after moving to Sheffield after a long time far away from any grit, but I thought the crux was tough. Tody's Wall I did ages ago but I remember thinking it was surprisingly OK once you get on it. Brooks' Crack (HVS 5a) went surprisingly easily for me; I did break a rib doing it but I'm sure you don't need to do that too!
I also enjoyed Goliath's Groove (HVS 5a) at Stanage but you probably need to find udging up wide cracks fun to find it reasonably straight forward like I did. One to do in pair of jeans or cordura troos!
Post edited at 11:56
In reply to pebbles:
Agree with pebbles, I'm 5'6 and Chequers is real reach round for me so it's definitely harder if you're short. Queersville is ok but you'll need a confident approach - gear is at your waist and once you commit, by your feet but it's a long reach to the holds and once you get them it's not all over - you have to get your feet up etc. Sometimes I go up left first to get onto the traverse rather than jumping.
Tody's wall - it was my first HVS and is great. The gear is good and it's just one stiff pull over the lip - just put your feet a bit higher if you're small. Some other suggestions from my logbook:
Randy's Wall, HVS 5a Bamford, low in the grade apparently, can't really remember it.
Knight's move, Burbage - as others have said a good HVS lower in the grade.
Croton Oil, Rivelin, great climb.
Blizzard Ridge, Rivelin - it's a little bit bold at one point but it's fine and I don't think you'd deck so safe.
Overhanging wall, Stanage Plantation - better if you're short as it's a bit cramped under the roof.
Tower face, Stanage Plantation, as others have said don't place gear behind the flake - you don't need it, I took a fall there onto a nut placed below the flake and was fine. Great route and you can do the direct for a first E2 tick later.
All of the above are from my logbook back in 2010/11 when I was just starting to lead HVS and trying to consolidate at that grade - they are all fine and not too bold. What I've actually learn't about HVS is that there are lots of E1's that are easier so don't be afraid to try a few of the softer E1's too. Don't listen to whoever suggested Kelly's Overhang, it's nails but safe and I'm sure gets E1 5c on here now and I was going well when I did it, would probably fail on it if I tried it at the moment!
Agree with pebbles, I'm 5'6 and Chequers is real reach round for me so it's definitely harder if you're short. Queersville is ok but you'll need a confident approach - gear is at your waist and once you commit, by your feet but it's a long reach to the holds and once you get them it's not all over - you have to get your feet up etc. Sometimes I go up left first to get onto the traverse rather than jumping.
Tody's wall - it was my first HVS and is great. The gear is good and it's just one stiff pull over the lip - just put your feet a bit higher if you're small. Some other suggestions from my logbook:
Randy's Wall, HVS 5a Bamford, low in the grade apparently, can't really remember it.
Knight's move, Burbage - as others have said a good HVS lower in the grade.
Croton Oil, Rivelin, great climb.
Blizzard Ridge, Rivelin - it's a little bit bold at one point but it's fine and I don't think you'd deck so safe.
Overhanging wall, Stanage Plantation - better if you're short as it's a bit cramped under the roof.
Tower face, Stanage Plantation, as others have said don't place gear behind the flake - you don't need it, I took a fall there onto a nut placed below the flake and was fine. Great route and you can do the direct for a first E2 tick later.
All of the above are from my logbook back in 2010/11 when I was just starting to lead HVS and trying to consolidate at that grade - they are all fine and not too bold. What I've actually learn't about HVS is that there are lots of E1's that are easier so don't be afraid to try a few of the softer E1's too. Don't listen to whoever suggested Kelly's Overhang, it's nails but safe and I'm sure gets E1 5c on here now and I was going well when I did it, would probably fail on it if I tried it at the moment!
In reply to KatieB:
A few that haven't been mentioned yet are Central Crack at Wilton 3 (you could do Shiver's Arete afterwards if you felt good, it's well protected with a cemented peg and a softie at E1), Meringue at Lawrencefield, Namenlos at Stanage and Lyon's Corner House Direct at Millstone. These were all early HVS leads for me and fairly steady.
P.S. I'm sure you'd be fine on Chequers Buttress. I found it reachy and it took me a long time but I'm only 5'2" ish so you're a towering colossus comparatively!
A few that haven't been mentioned yet are Central Crack at Wilton 3 (you could do Shiver's Arete afterwards if you felt good, it's well protected with a cemented peg and a softie at E1), Meringue at Lawrencefield, Namenlos at Stanage and Lyon's Corner House Direct at Millstone. These were all early HVS leads for me and fairly steady.
P.S. I'm sure you'd be fine on Chequers Buttress. I found it reachy and it took me a long time but I'm only 5'2" ish so you're a towering colossus comparatively!
Post edited at 12:55
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In reply to JJL:
I fell off Nowanda earlier this year, so agree it feels tough. The crack is fine, it is where it narrows down and you need to pull up onto the ledge that felt desperate.
Tower Crack at Stanage is another one that felt desperate - I fell off that too where the crack closes down!
I fell off Nowanda earlier this year, so agree it feels tough. The crack is fine, it is where it narrows down and you need to pull up onto the ledge that felt desperate.
Tower Crack at Stanage is another one that felt desperate - I fell off that too where the crack closes down!
In reply to climbingpixie:
Meringue gear was proper sketch and roof route is mega burly (maybe I just can't fist jam). If you give up on roof route and wander onto groove route that is safe and slabby but tricky, I was kind've upside down on the crux
Meringue gear was proper sketch and roof route is mega burly (maybe I just can't fist jam). If you give up on roof route and wander onto groove route that is safe and slabby but tricky, I was kind've upside down on the crux
In reply to trouserburp:
Maybe my post wasn't clear - I was saying NOT to try Roof Route as an early HVS! Well, not unless your fist jamming is well up to scratch...
Maybe my post wasn't clear - I was saying NOT to try Roof Route as an early HVS! Well, not unless your fist jamming is well up to scratch...
In reply to climbingpixie:
oh sorry - I concur. Don't do jeepers creepers either unless you have good jamming or loose morals about wandering lines
oh sorry - I concur. Don't do jeepers creepers either unless you have good jamming or loose morals about wandering lines
In reply to trouserburp:
Sketch? Meringue gear is a nut in the crack, reachable when standing on the ledge? Boldish to there.
I agree with Climbing Pixie on the ease of Namenlos if you get it right but it has sneaky part-hidden gear (very bold if you miss it and it was E1 in the older guides), so it depends on the level of VS experience. Lyon's Corner House is a great weaving line.
Sketch? Meringue gear is a nut in the crack, reachable when standing on the ledge? Boldish to there.
I agree with Climbing Pixie on the ease of Namenlos if you get it right but it has sneaky part-hidden gear (very bold if you miss it and it was E1 in the older guides), so it depends on the level of VS experience. Lyon's Corner House is a great weaving line.
Post edited at 16:11
In reply to Offwidth:
Meringue at Lawrencefield? All I remember is equalising tiny tiny gear. Logbook entries looks like I'm not alone
Meringue at Lawrencefield? All I remember is equalising tiny tiny gear. Logbook entries looks like I'm not alone
In reply to KatieB:
Another for the Millstone list would be "Great Portland Street" - Not strictly an entry level HVS but no worse than several previous suggestions. Get past the tricky start and the climbing after that is steady well protected bridging; a lovely route.
It's less strenuous than Great North Road and far easier than Rubberneck at the Roaches.
P.S. The start can't be a mantleshelf, I was able to do it!
Another for the Millstone list would be "Great Portland Street" - Not strictly an entry level HVS but no worse than several previous suggestions. Get past the tricky start and the climbing after that is steady well protected bridging; a lovely route.
It's less strenuous than Great North Road and far easier than Rubberneck at the Roaches.
P.S. The start can't be a mantleshelf, I was able to do it!
In reply to trouserburp:
Maybe time for a reclimb.. it's been a few years ... seems from the logbook the crack is wearing but still sounds safe with offsets and micro-cams.
Maybe time for a reclimb.. it's been a few years ... seems from the logbook the crack is wearing but still sounds safe with offsets and micro-cams.
In reply to Offwidth:
I think Meringue has always been v badly protected, thus HVS 4c. I don't remember v much about it, but the 1991 entry in my logbook says: 'V. relaxed on this despite v. poor pro (a virtual solo).'
I think Meringue has always been v badly protected, thus HVS 4c. I don't remember v much about it, but the 1991 entry in my logbook says: 'V. relaxed on this despite v. poor pro (a virtual solo).'
In reply to Hat Dude:
That first move is pretty desperate though! 5b easily I reckon.
> Another for the Millstone list would be "Great Portland Street" - Not strictly an entry level HVS but no worse than several previous suggestions. Get past the tricky start and the climbing after that is steady well protected bridging; a lovely route.
That first move is pretty desperate though! 5b easily I reckon.
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In reply to KatieB:
Hi Katie
After the first few moves Sunset Slab is basically soloing Hard Severe with a tricky move (for Hard Severe) quite near the top. It's graded HVS because most people would, I think, want to be happy leading sensibly protected HVSs - and have a few under their belt - before going for it. Most competent VS climbers would get up it fine and wonder what all the fuss was about. But I wouldn't want you to be the one who made a slip on that move.
It's a great route which I've done several times over the years, but I wouldn't myself want to take over-stack the odds by taking that sort of chance every weekend.
I presume you're the KatieB I know? Good luck!
Martin
> To be honest I'm quite comfortable with a 4b slabby run out so I might give it a look. When I say "not too bold" I'm more concerned with the 5a(+) moves being well protected.
Hi Katie
After the first few moves Sunset Slab is basically soloing Hard Severe with a tricky move (for Hard Severe) quite near the top. It's graded HVS because most people would, I think, want to be happy leading sensibly protected HVSs - and have a few under their belt - before going for it. Most competent VS climbers would get up it fine and wonder what all the fuss was about. But I wouldn't want you to be the one who made a slip on that move.
It's a great route which I've done several times over the years, but I wouldn't myself want to take over-stack the odds by taking that sort of chance every weekend.
I presume you're the KatieB I know? Good luck!
Martin
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
The pro on meringue changed in the late 90s when something came out near the crux at the top and left a good small friend in a horizontal break.
The pro on meringue changed in the late 90s when something came out near the crux at the top and left a good small friend in a horizontal break.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I once belayed a friend on this as either his first or early HVS and when he pulled the ropes up after leading all his gear fell out! Obviously some bits were placed badly but it is not safe route to do as a first HVS and is becoming increasingly polished due to top roping and abseiling down these routes.
> I think Meringue has always been v badly protected, thus HVS 4c. I don't remember v much about it, but the 1991 entry in my logbook says: 'V. relaxed on this despite v. poor pro (a virtual solo).'
I once belayed a friend on this as either his first or early HVS and when he pulled the ropes up after leading all his gear fell out! Obviously some bits were placed badly but it is not safe route to do as a first HVS and is becoming increasingly polished due to top roping and abseiling down these routes.
In reply to Offwidth:
neither of which are part of many peoples standard rack at that grade
> Maybe time for a reclimb.. it's been a few years ... seems from the logbook the crack is wearing but still sounds safe with offsets and micro-cams.
neither of which are part of many peoples standard rack at that grade
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
It's clear in the guidebook that tiny cams help and I'd strongly advise HVS grit onsighters to invest in them and brass offsets or stick to burly cracks or otherwsie obviously protectable stuff. You are certainly right its not a good first HVS. When I first led it in 1990ish it had a good small nut. If those placements have so badly worn that the placements can't be trusted the route is E1 and Gingerbread is HVS.
It's clear in the guidebook that tiny cams help and I'd strongly advise HVS grit onsighters to invest in them and brass offsets or stick to burly cracks or otherwsie obviously protectable stuff. You are certainly right its not a good first HVS. When I first led it in 1990ish it had a good small nut. If those placements have so badly worn that the placements can't be trusted the route is E1 and Gingerbread is HVS.
Post edited at 09:20
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
Really? I just bumble around VSs with the odd soft HVS and everyone I climb with has microcams and the only reason their offsets aren't on show is this is grit, not dolerite.
> neither of which are part of many peoples standard rack at that grade
Really? I just bumble around VSs with the odd soft HVS and everyone I climb with has microcams and the only reason their offsets aren't on show is this is grit, not dolerite.
1
In reply to TobyA:
>That first move is pretty desperate though! 5b easily I reckon.
I would say (still looking the wounds to my ego) absolutely nails for the short!!!!
>That first move is pretty desperate though! 5b easily I reckon.
I would say (still looking the wounds to my ego) absolutely nails for the short!!!!
1
In reply to pebbles:
What's grit for? To humble us! It's certainly had its fun with me but I'll always come back for more.
That start is certainly a bit goey. If I remember correctly (long time ago) you can compose yourself before the rest - nice bridging, decent gear at intervals. Not something one would want to rush at though.
Come back on a nice summer evening when you're on a roll. There's nothing quite like a successful rematch.
Mick
What's grit for? To humble us! It's certainly had its fun with me but I'll always come back for more.
That start is certainly a bit goey. If I remember correctly (long time ago) you can compose yourself before the rest - nice bridging, decent gear at intervals. Not something one would want to rush at though.
Come back on a nice summer evening when you're on a roll. There's nothing quite like a successful rematch.
Mick
In reply to KatieB:
This tick list: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=787 has some good suggestions for stuff on eastern grit which are mostly well protected. Obviously with all these things everyone is different and you should make your own call but I'd personally favour well protected stuff even if it isn't your most favoured style of climbing when breaking into a grade especially on grit where ground fall can be a reality if you get it wrong or gear rips on some routes until you have better judgement of these things:
personally I avoid a few of the suggestions on here at this stage,
Sunset slab - easy but bold where it matters,
Queersville - quite reachy to gain the ledge below the crack could deck, also harder to place wires in the crack before the moves to get onto this if short.
Peddlers Slab - no gear until after the hard (5c) difficulties
Peddlers Arete - remember this being hard and gear lower/worse than expected could be wrong
C.M.C - side runner rubbish, could place blind cams with my reach but know the right size due to soloing the other route so many times.
Blizzard ridge - bit run out above uninspiring worn gear? Do Croton Oil it's a much better and well protected route though harder to get your gear back if you can't do it. Take care with the flake which flexes at the top and gear there though!
Leaning buttress direct - hard moves off the low ledge with gear a foot level not a nice fall could invert, generally soft though.
Billiard buttress or Milsom's Minion which have different starts both are not easy and bold if you do them as per BMC guide and the HVS is bold above too!
Sundowner - its a Bold and E2 situation without side runners which miss the point of the climb anyway not the place to be if you've only done a handful of HVS let alone 1!
Green Acres - is not very well protected despite what Jim says, there is ground fall potential on the slab (though this is easier) before the cam
This tick list: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=787 has some good suggestions for stuff on eastern grit which are mostly well protected. Obviously with all these things everyone is different and you should make your own call but I'd personally favour well protected stuff even if it isn't your most favoured style of climbing when breaking into a grade especially on grit where ground fall can be a reality if you get it wrong or gear rips on some routes until you have better judgement of these things:
personally I avoid a few of the suggestions on here at this stage,
Sunset slab - easy but bold where it matters,
Queersville - quite reachy to gain the ledge below the crack could deck, also harder to place wires in the crack before the moves to get onto this if short.
Peddlers Slab - no gear until after the hard (5c) difficulties
Peddlers Arete - remember this being hard and gear lower/worse than expected could be wrong
C.M.C - side runner rubbish, could place blind cams with my reach but know the right size due to soloing the other route so many times.
Blizzard ridge - bit run out above uninspiring worn gear? Do Croton Oil it's a much better and well protected route though harder to get your gear back if you can't do it. Take care with the flake which flexes at the top and gear there though!
Leaning buttress direct - hard moves off the low ledge with gear a foot level not a nice fall could invert, generally soft though.
Billiard buttress or Milsom's Minion which have different starts both are not easy and bold if you do them as per BMC guide and the HVS is bold above too!
Sundowner - its a Bold and E2 situation without side runners which miss the point of the climb anyway not the place to be if you've only done a handful of HVS let alone 1!
Green Acres - is not very well protected despite what Jim says, there is ground fall potential on the slab (though this is easier) before the cam
1
1
In reply to KatieB:
Overhanging Groove at Almscliff is very good.
Rockfax Description
16m. The shallow overhanging groove in the left wall of Parsons' Chimney proves to be quite superb. Layback the lower section and bridge the upper, with an exciting finish on huge jugs. An Almscliff rarity, a route that is low in the grade! © Rockfax
Overhanging Groove at Almscliff is very good.
Rockfax Description
16m. The shallow overhanging groove in the left wall of Parsons' Chimney proves to be quite superb. Layback the lower section and bridge the upper, with an exciting finish on huge jugs. An Almscliff rarity, a route that is low in the grade! © Rockfax
1
2
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Bond street was an early HVS of mine, but Sunseet Slab was my second VS lead, in the days when it was a VS. Thus I seem to have gone from Severe to HVS in 2 routes. Happy.
What grade does Bypass at MIllstone get now? I used to like Bypass, being a jammer.
Bond street was an early HVS of mine, but Sunseet Slab was my second VS lead, in the days when it was a VS. Thus I seem to have gone from Severe to HVS in 2 routes. Happy.
What grade does Bypass at MIllstone get now? I used to like Bypass, being a jammer.
In reply to hedgepig: It's still HVS 5a since it finishes up GNR - although it's milder than GNR since the first bit is only 4b - long time since I did it - presumably the blocks near the start aren't more solid than they used to be.
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
I'd support most of that and the list is a good one to tick through as a new HVS climber.
I don't think Greenacres is as bad as you make out.. safe crux then boldish but not especially so but it is a downgraded E1 so would not be in my list of recommendations for the OP.
I'd support most of that and the list is a good one to tick through as a new HVS climber.
I don't think Greenacres is as bad as you make out.. safe crux then boldish but not especially so but it is a downgraded E1 so would not be in my list of recommendations for the OP.
In reply to Graeme Hammond:
Blizzard Ridge - bomber gear never felt any chance of groundfall the whole way
Milsoms minion and billiard buttress - same start according to Rockfax? Reasonably protected whole way
Leaning buttress direct bouldery start at harmless height, then protected it's fine
CMC side runners utterly bomber??
What HVS slabs would you recommend for someone asking for HVS slabs to climb?
Blizzard Ridge - bomber gear never felt any chance of groundfall the whole way
Milsoms minion and billiard buttress - same start according to Rockfax? Reasonably protected whole way
Leaning buttress direct bouldery start at harmless height, then protected it's fine
CMC side runners utterly bomber??
What HVS slabs would you recommend for someone asking for HVS slabs to climb?
In reply to trouserburp:
V odd suggestions for first HVSs. My memory of BB and MM (from v long ago) is that the former was v hard for the grade and poorly protected ... and isn't the latter E1?
> Milsoms minion and billiard buttress - same start according to Rockfax? Reasonably protected whole way
V odd suggestions for first HVSs. My memory of BB and MM (from v long ago) is that the former was v hard for the grade and poorly protected ... and isn't the latter E1?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Yes is why I said push the boat a little for your first e1. There's a blind but good cam to protect start and a couple of ok cams to protect the main crux. Technical slab climbing is generally light on protection
...on the plus side less faff and more flow
Yes is why I said push the boat a little for your first e1. There's a blind but good cam to protect start and a couple of ok cams to protect the main crux. Technical slab climbing is generally light on protection
...on the plus side less faff and more flow
2
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
They both have rather intimidating, steep (and slightly different) starts from which, realistically, you would hit the ground if you misread the moves but which are straightforward given a positive attitude and the gas in the tank. Not really first HVS territory, pretty obviously.
MM has a good runner protecting the reachy crux move, but I recall BB being pretty scary myself.
> V odd suggestions for first HVSs. My memory of BB and MM (from v long ago) is that the former was v hard for the grade and poorly protected ... and isn't the latter E1?
They both have rather intimidating, steep (and slightly different) starts from which, realistically, you would hit the ground if you misread the moves but which are straightforward given a positive attitude and the gas in the tank. Not really first HVS territory, pretty obviously.
MM has a good runner protecting the reachy crux move, but I recall BB being pretty scary myself.
In reply to Dave Garnett:
That's exactly as I remember. MM actually OK after a scary start, and BB easier but just plain scary.
That's exactly as I remember. MM actually OK after a scary start, and BB easier but just plain scary.
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