UKC

UKC Fit Club Week 760

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 AlanLittle 10 Oct 2021

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

The following training article by Alex Barrows gives an excellent breakdown on training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing:- http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/training-for-sport-climbing.html also this - https://www.instagram.com/p/CEGfCg7DbkK/?igshid=4a1o55jwpus2

For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here:- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502

And for those looking for more theoretical background, there's a useful subject index of published research studies on the Beta Angel project. Not sure how actively maintained if is though. https://beta-angel.com/research/research-inventory/

This week's psyche vid: 

Last weeks post - https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_cub_week_758-739557

AJM - a few years back when I was heavily into photography I read a book called *Art and Fear*. One of the key messages from that is that doing *something* connected with the goal is always progress - cleaning lenses, improving one's board, whatever.

biscuit - a pretty good week's haul on what look like some serious pumpfests, especially considering non-ideal conditions. How's the pre-Chorro deload/recovery going?

Liam P - solid efforts there, but I'm a little worried you might hurt yourself trying 20 second "max" hangs. Somewhere in the 5 to 10 second range is the general recommendation.

mattrm - at least you went up the hill

Ross Barker - one good moonboard session in there at least. Did conditions (weather and body!) let you get back on Rigpa this week?

Si dH - as somebody who's always found hamstring stretching & forward bending easy, I can confirm there's much more to hip mobility than that. Glad to hear the family are home & doing well.

Somerset swede basher - shame about the un-calling of the lime with the project still open. Such is life.

Steve Claw - if you find the secret of how to effectively train trad endurance on plastic I'm sure many people will be eager to hear about it. Seems to me hanging around to place gear, then moving slowly & cautiously, is a different kind of endurance than doing lots of moves at sport climbing tempo.

the sheep - I wouldn't worry too much about isolation comfort eating - you'll get moving again afterwards

Tom Green - sounds like furniture and box shifting was the right (erm) move for your general conditioning goal. Removal man fitness. Glad the back held up

Tyler - impressed by the Z1/2 motivation -is it for a specific target?

AlanLittle - decent training week, but some sign of actually getting up something would be even better.

@Somerset swede basher - you still ok to take over statting from the end of the month? My last round will be on the 24th, heading to Greece on the 30th.
 

 AJM 10 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

> AJM - a few years back when I was heavily into photography I read a book called *Art and Fear*. One of the key messages from that is that doing *something* connected with the goal is always progress - cleaning lenses, improving one's board, whatever 

Cheers Alan. Yes, that’s the way I’m trying to see it - steps forward, even if everything else going on means they can be quite small!

Bit more indoor training this week. MicroAJM hasn’t been tip top over the weekend, so didn’t manage to get outside - a shame with the nice weather and with a run of busy weekends coming up but these things happen. Two good wall sessions and a nice walk, could be worse! Skims suffering a bit from reintroduction to plastic though!

Want to try to start getting more “infilling” sessions done this week, at the minute I seem to be climbing or resting but if I could start doing stretching or pinch block or antagonists or something in some of the gaps that would be pretty good.

<you have linked to a fortnight ago rather than last week, by the way>

Monday - regrowing skin

Tuesday - ditto

Wednesday - climbing wall after school with miniAJM. Decent session, did a bunch more new problems, again mostly the 1-5 goes range. Tried some of the stuff on the comp wall which is good for some slightly different styles. 

Thursday - busy day and ended up working most of the evening

Friday - nothing, resting in the hope of enjoying Saturday sunshine, possibly combined with the high tide!

Saturday - microAJM up in the night and not 100% all day, so a slow start for all, dws off the menu as a result. Had been looking forwards to checking out White Hole but apparently it was condensed with some tidal race too, so the others ended up at cave hole anyway. Tired myself, so motivation lacking a bit despite the nice weather. Ended up at the wall, because it was easy and miniAJM was keen. A good session, got a couple of new things done including a white, and reacquainted myself with the board. Did a 6B+ and failed on a number of other things. As good as going indoors on a sunny afternoon could be!? Walked back through the park with miniAJM and enjoyed an ice cream, which at least made me think I’d made some decent use of the weather.

Sunday - much like Saturday, another poor night and lacking in energy as a result. Skin sore. Did some random (useful) household admin and took the children out for about 8-9km walk along the beach in the afternoon. Flashbacks of the lockdown beach walks that were about all I could do this winter gone.

 AJM 10 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

> the secret of how to effectively train trad endurance on plastic I'm sure many people will be eager to hear about it. Seems to me hanging around to place gear, then moving slowly & cautiously, is a different kind of endurance than doing lots of moves at sport climbing tempo.

Havent you said it there? Different tempo on the rock, so a different tempo in training?

I used to go to the wall in Gloucester, which didn’t have a great bouldering room at the time but did have a massive bendcrete boulder in the middle of it. Various places to rest on it at shakeouts, climbing in between. I had a phase where I had a bad elbow which didn’t mind volume but did mind intensity (odd, but there you go), so I just went round and round - sometimes pushing it further between rests, sometimes stopping at each rest but only briefly, whatever. Anyway, I’ll never claim to have been fit at the sort of 30 degrees and beyond sort of stuff, but a bunch of this was certainly a lightbulb moment in terms of ability to hang around on medium steep (vert or slightly beyond) ground, on sport and trad - previously I’d been a sprinter, short power endurance red points but not much more, and suddenly I could go out and hang about on steep onsights without the permanent ticking clock. 

In reply to AlanLittle:

> impressed by the Z1/2 motivation -is it for a specific target?

I want to get out in the hills a bit more and the only way to enjoy this is to be CV fit which, like everything, has really gone for a burton in the last two years. Ideally I’d be doing this outside but treadmill seems to stop my calf flaring up although I am aware that when I get up to the level of effort I want my hip will start giving me grief.

M: Treadmill, 47 mins

T: Depot, no blacks to warm up on and as soon as I pulled on my shoulder was sore (I strained it last week). Got as far as taking my shoes off to go home but decided to stick it out. Climbed carefully on about half the reds

W: Treadmill, 60 mins

T: Yoga

F: Treadmill 26mins (cock up on timing again so arrived not long before closing, possibly for the best)

S: House purchase is dragging so set myself the stretch goal of doing Free and Easy before I leave. This is unfinished business from a few years ago when I got through the (low) crux a couple of times but fell off the middle section. Went up once to work out logistics and warm up but didn’t really try the moves. Second and third goes I reacquainted myself with the moves but unfortunately I’m much worse than previously (obviously), holds I could comfortably drag now need to be properly crimped and I struggled on the moves, three of which I didn’t do at all. 

S: Treadmill, managed 10km in just under an hour (@2% incline). This was an unarticulated sub-goal so I’m pretty pleased. I was going to complain about my disturbed night’s sleep but then remembered how many parents of young children there are here and realised I’d have no sympathy - instead you have mine!

This week I’m going to do some emergency fingerboarding, obviously I’m limited in what gains I can make but maybe a bit of recruitment. I also want to start getting a bit more scientific with my running (speed sessions, proper Z1/2 and recovery runs)

In reply to AlanLittle:

Yep, but I've managed to get psyched for winter training now so feeling more upbeat this week. The plan is to do a shed load of endurance training over the winter then emerge with the sunshine in the spring and lay waste to 8a routes all over the Peak! It's rare that I can't do the moves so this is going to be the winter of getting pumped!

Mon. 3x10 shoulder shrugs, 6x max hangs (+22kg), 10 laps of a 6c+ on the steeper circuit board at the depot with 2mins rest between each lap then 3x10 press ups.

Tues. Rest (well, 13hrs in school wasn't really very restful but I didn't do any proper exercise). 

Wed. 3x10 shoulder shrugs, 6x max hangs (+23kgs), 5x5 BW pull ups, 5 sets of repeaters (+5kg). 3x10 press ups. 8km run. 

Thurs and Fri. Rest. 

Sat. Managed to redpoint Stone the Loach (7c) which was cool. I tried this a few weeks ago so was a second session send but felt a lot easier with all the foothold dry! Still pretty pumped at the top but held it together. Did another victory lap on top rope after for fitness which was clean apart from one slip where the top rope got in the way but I pulled straight back on.

Sun. 5ish mile walk with the kids (grouse, white edge, Froggatt) then up to the attic for: 3x10 shoulder shrugs, 3x10 press ups, crimpd compression, crimped tension and 3x10mins on 10mins off aerocap. 

I've no idea if the shoulder shrugs are doing anything but when I first started my shoulders made all sorts of unhappy grinding clicking noises and now it's pretty smooth so if nothing else I think they are probably less injury prone now. Still doing the rings stuff off knees not toes but a knock to the ego in order to get the full range of movement seems like a good idea. Glad I ran out of time for the 6th set of repeaters on Wednesday as I was redlining by that point but I'd not had time to rest between hangs/pull ups/repeaters so it was probably for the best. My primary goal for any finger board session is to leave the board without an injury so at least that's a tick! Quite a high volume week this week so will rest the fingers tomorrow and hopefully get an outdoor boulder session in on Tuesday if the weather holds. 

In reply to AlanLittle:

Thank you Alan.

I think training for trad indoors can only be done in part.  When decided on the "endurance session" it was mainly because it seemed hard and appropriate, but also because it fitted with most trad stuff being a mix of easier and harder ground, so the need to de-pump being particularly important.  I think this works well for placing gear as well, only improvement might be some 10-15s one arm hangs every so many moves.  On reflection, I found I was able to rest and de-pump really well today, so hopefully all the time on the autos did help.

Less training this week as been in Cornwall climbing since Friday.

Tues - Indoor ropes - all mid 7's

Wed - Saw a Physio about my elbows and numbness in my little fingers.  Luckily diagnosis is no major issues, and most likely an irritated Ulnar nerve caused by hypertrophy of the forearms near the elbow.  Avoid too much bending of elbow training and use anti-inflammatory gel until symptoms subside, (could take months) then gently ramp up training.

Thurs - Was going to train, but as weather was good, decided to extend Cornwall trip, so didn't want to over do it.

Fri - Went to Pentire on route into Cornwall and did Eroica (E4 6a) Conditions were damp, so it was a scary experience, but not overly hard. Got to the crux and struggled to get decent gear in, thought I saw what looked like an Eco bolt, so went for it, but when I got there it was just some bird mess playing tricks with my head.

Sat - Bosigran Grendel (E2 5c) A bit greasy, but went ok. Tried Kafoozalem (E3 6a), but a mixture of greasy-ness and my own ineptness caused a defeat early on.  Followed with The Armchair (HVS 5a) and then Suicide Wall (E1 5c).

Sun - Determined not to accept defeat, I managed to pull together a couple of Micro Trax and set-up top rope on Kafoozalem.  Surprisingly, as soon as I didn't have to think about trad head game and gear, my body sub-consciously moved as it should, found good positions and I did it on the warm-up. Twice more for luck , then lead it with no drama's later in the day. 

 Si dH 10 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

Thanks Alan. 

M: morning - 5*5 one arm scap pull-ups on the pull-up bar. Light theraband assistance with left arm, no assistance with right.

T: morning - 3*30 second density hangs, 5 *3/6/9 half crimp hangs on the 23mm edge with 10kg (2), 15kg (2) and 20kg (1). Finger seemed ok. Then 3*3 power pull-ups.

W: morning - 5*5 one arm scap pull-ups on the pull-up bar. Light theraband assistance with left arm, no assistance with right. Afternoon - crimpd app hip/leg flexibility 'B' routine.

T: afternoon -  3*30 second density hangs, 5 sets of 3/6/9 half crimp hangs on the 23mm edge with bodyweight + 20 kg. Finger ok. Evening - did 3 sets of 3/6/9 with front 3 drag on the 23 mm edge but then got called in for parenting. I find the weight I can hang on this (front 3 drag) is very friction dependent.

F: rest (had planned a flexibility session but didn't get around to it)

S: rest

S: took son No. 1 out to Bridestones for a couple of hours. It was really good just to be outside again - the first time for about 6 weeks - and he had a good time too. The only problem I did was Horror Arete (f6C), which is brilliant. I really didn't fancy the jump off to the next boulder at all, so bum-slid off the top and took the drop down to the pads. Scary but fine in the end.

Question for those of you who have done much 2 and 3 finger drag training on a fingerboard. Do you tend to just drag using friction, or do you also consciously try to push your pads down in to the hold by slightly flexing your DIP joint? I have found that doing the latter makes it harder, but I'm not sure if it makes it better training. In years past I think I just used to drag using friction.

Si

Post edited at 23:14
In reply to Steve Claw:

> Went to Pentire on route into Cornwall and did Eroica (E4 6a) 

Good effort 

 Tom Green 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

Hi Fit Club. Thanks for another week of stats, Alan.

A relatively good week, getting back to a bit of activity after the recent few disrupted weeks. Just need to get some structure back now.

Week 40:

M: Nowt.

T: Alpine start and finish for work.

W: Nowt (except a lot of driving!)

T: Trail run. 7.3km, 326m vert, 7:22/km. Just a little local explore to wean my joints back in to running.

F: Climbing. Treated myself to a glorious afternoon bouldering/soloing at Scugdale. Highlights were Hangover (VS 4c) and The Nose (HVS 5b)

S: Trail run. 6.9km, 273m vert, 6:44/km. Supposed to be a repeat of Thursday's run, but somehow must have cut some corners! 

S: Climbing. Joined some mates at Stanage. Remembered why I haven't climbed at Stanage on a weekend since having free weekdays! But also remembered why Stanage is so great... The Little Unconquerable (HVS 5a) was pure type one fun; then Tower Chimney (E1 5b) was, well, something else! I didn't know chimney's went above VDiff in the UK* so was pretty intrigued... lost a lot of skin, gained a lot of life experience! One of the most satisfying thrutches I've done outside of Scottish winter! 

Week 41:

120 mins running.

2 x climbing

2 x core and strength

3 x prehab

STGs (end 2021):

Heavens Above

Run all segments of the Cleveland Way 

Average 1 E-point per week (1/1).

MTGs (end March 22):

Lots of Scottish mixed at VI and VII

Something long, hard and suffery in the Alps.

*sub-topic: we need a ticklist of UK hard chimneys!

Post edited at 05:59
 AlanLittle 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

STG: Actually climb something.
MTG: Leonidio in November. Ditch the lockdown weightbelt (3 to 5 kgs) beforehand and get fit. Duolingo Level One Greek
LTG: Be a confident, well rounded low to mid 7's sport climber. For measurable definition see Fit Club 658

M: 
T: Wall, Thalkirchen. Spending more time on steep ground, trying to get used to keeping going on straightforward jug hauls when pumped - something that I always find intimidating.
W: Bike 45 minutes
T: Buggeration. Drove to the wall only to find my vaccination certificate hadn't copied across to my new phone. Drove home, re-scanned the paper certificate, did some better-than-nothing sets of repeaters.
F: Important milestone in my Leonidio-specific training plan: completed Duolingo Level Zero Greek.
    In less happy news, my intended climbing partner for Saturday had to drop out & I couldn't rustle up a subsitute at short notice. Considered going bouldering instead, but then decided an extra wall session and going for a walk would be more beneficial in terms of my immediate endurance goals. So ...
    Wall, Weyarn. Up-down-ups on autobelay at around 6b up, 6a down.
S: Hillwalking, Kreuzeck. This is quite a nice little training/benchmark route - 900 metres of ascent, fairly steep on good paths through scenic woodland, with the added benefit of a nice knee-saving lift to get back down. To my surprise I seem to be getting fitter - was 10% faster, with less perceived effort, than on the same route last summer. 
S: Wall, Thalkirchen. Once again focus on maintaining composure on steep ground when tired

 Ross Barker 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

Morning Alan, good stats this week.

> Did conditions (weather and body!) let you get back on Rigpa this week?

Indeed they did, and it was a pretty decent session indeed. Still not ideal as the air was stagnant most of the session, but I suppose it's good to ease into the cold season gradually.

For a discussion topic, has anyone ever came up with a way to warm fingers up while on a crag approach? As time can sometimes be limited, getting a head start on the fingers could bag an extra burn or two on the problem before having to leave.

Last Week:

M - Rest.

T - Rest.

W - Rigpa (V9). Productive. Many duff goes but several promising ones. About as close to doing "the move" without actually doing it. Psyched.

T - Rest.

F - Rest.

S - Set up a TRS on Grady Balls (V5), but it was mega humid and was drizzly, so spent time refining my system before heading to the gym for a Moonboard Power Hour™️. Bashed out a couple of repeats up to 6C, then had two burns on Airforce Moldova. Managed all moves but last two are bloody hard!

S - Rest.

Next Week:

M - Rest.

T - Rigpa.

W - Rest.

T - Gym.

F - Rest.

S, S - Busy again, so hopefully able to squeeze in a session on something.

Goals:

Rigpa.

Suavito.

T-Crack.

Big Al Qaeda.

In reply to Ross Barker:

I have a couple of stress balls in the car, a soft one and a harder one. 15mins playing with these on the drive in speeds up warming up. I don't squeeze the living daylights out of them just gentle keep the blood flowing.

If it's time out of the house that's short and I'm going to the crag from home (rather than after work) I always warm up on my board at home. It means you can get straight on your project at the crag. The stress ball is good here too for keeping the fingers warm. 

Post edited at 09:27
 Liam P 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

Cheers Alan. Much of the sameness this week unsurprisingly.

I read about ‘Long Max Hangs’ in Beastmaking and thought I’d give them a try. They’re supposed to stimulate Hypertrophy as opposed to Neuromuscular Recruitment with 5-12s hangs. I had the same concern so I’m being mega strict with form - any deviation from a half crimp and I stop. 

Recovery Club Goals

  • Recover
  • 3x3 5sFrenchies
  • 20s Half Crimp 20mm (+12kg)
  • Bent Arm Planche
  • Full 20x Core Circuit (tick)
  • Front Lever
  • Weight under 175lb

Mon

  • 1 set 5x 20s Half Crimp 20mm (+3kg)
  • 3x 2&2/3, 2&1/3, 2&1/3 Frenchies
  • 3x 18 Knee Raise
  • 10x 30 wrist curls (5kg)

Tue

  • 3x 30 Dips
  • 1:50 Plank
  • 3x 1 PPPU (40” foot-hand)
  • 5x 6,6,5,4,4 Advanced Tuck Front Lever
  • 8x 25 reverse wrist curls (5kg)

Wed

  • 1 set 5x 15s Half Crimp 20mm (+5kg)
  • 3x 20 Knee Raise
  • 10x 35 wrist curls (5kg)

Fri

  • 3x 32 Dips
  • 1:55 Plank
  • 3x 1 PPPU (39” foot-hand). Finally reached my limit so did 5x 12s Planche Leans at the same distance
  • 5x 6,6,6,5,5 Advanced Tuck Front Lever
  • 10x 25 reverse wrist curls (5kg)

Sat

  • 1 set 5x 20,20,15,15,15s Half Crimp 20mm (+5kg)
  • 3x 2&2/3 Frenchies
  • 10x 40 wrist curls (5kg)

Weight: Back to 172lb after last weeks decadence.

 Si dH 11 Oct 2021
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

> I have a couple of stress balls in the car, a soft one and a harder one. 15mins playing with these on the drive in speeds up warming up. I don't squeeze the living daylights out of them just gentle keep the blood flowing.

I do the same albeit with a putty ball. I still have to warm up at the crag too, but this makes the early warm up slightly quicker. My warmup time has increased exponentially with age...

> If it's time out of the house that's short and I'm going to the crag from home (rather than after work) I always warm up on my board at home. It means you can get straight on your project at the crag. The stress ball is good here too for keeping the fingers warm. 

Oh for a crag within 20 minutes of the house...

 Ross Barker 11 Oct 2021
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

> I have a couple of stress balls in the car, a soft one and a harder one. 15mins playing with these on the drive in speeds up warming up. I don't squeeze the living daylights out of them just gentle keep the blood flowing.

That's a pretty good shout. I'll pick one up and try it out.

For me the issue isn't necessarily time outside but time in general, especially during the week. I'm quite fond of early morning sessions but that puts a hard cap on when you must finish, whereas with an evening session you can say, "ah, just a couple more goes" and push for a bit more time.

I also don't have a board to warm up on at home, unfortunately!

 AlanLittle 11 Oct 2021
In reply to Tom Green:

> *sub-topic: we need a ticklist of UK hard chimneys!

Just as well you only want UK, otherwise I‘d have to upload a ticklist of half the Kaisergebirge guidebook. I particularly enjoy the part where the occasional pegs simply stop halfway up the pitch for no apparent reason.

 AlanLittle 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AJM:

>  <you have linked to a fortnight ago rather than last week, by the way>

Oops, thanks for the heads-up. First time I‘ve got that wrong (I think). Here’s the correct link: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/ukc_fit_club_week_759-739821

 AJM 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

In the U.K. - maybe you’d define them more as flared grooves (but isn’t that at least one way that chimneys get hard?) but Gin Palace (7c) and maybe The Quarryman (E8 7a)? From videos, they both have at least some back and foot action?

 Tom Green 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AlanLittle:

Sounds terrifying!

 Tom Green 11 Oct 2021
In reply to AJM:

Good point… I guess there should be a threshold angle of flare where a chimney becomes a corner, but both of those look like they climb like chimneys at some points!

There are probably loads of hard chimneys that have escaped my attention (can’t think why?!)

edit to add: hadn’t realised Gin Palace was one of the Vivian rockfall casualties. That’s a shame. 

Post edited at 11:54
In reply to AlanLittle:

Last Week

Monday

* Some problems at Substation. Finding the latest reset a bit "reachy" which I just found frustrating...so did a couple of problems on the system board instead. May stick to that for a while for pure training purposes

Wednesday

Routes at  Millstone Edge

Embankment 4 (E1 5b) Lead OS. First route on the "road to regent street". Don't know if that will happen this year but good to get onto some of the classic finger cracks. Belayed Sam on Tea for Two (E4 6a) - was *so* tempted to giveTime for Tea (E3 5c) a go but will leave for another day. First (proper) E3, maybe? Entertained by Randall and Whittaker doing some simul-bouldering insanity on Technical Master.

Sunday

Routes at  Burbage South Edge

* Lead attempt on Goliath (E4 6a). Hahahahaha No. Actually it was quite fun, and sneakily suspect it might be a bit easier in B2 boots. As it was I couldn't advance past the pod - retreated for a future ground up attempt.

* Millwheel Wall (E1 5b) Lead OS. Nice to a do a route that was pretty much the total antithesis of Goliath. 

Next Week

Not really done much in the way of actual training, enjoying climbing too much especially with gritstone season now making an appearance. Still, should try and fit in some conditioning sessions -

  • 20km trail runnning
  • 2 strength and conditioning sessions
  • 2 routes at E1 or above.
 davkeo 11 Oct 2021
In reply to Tom Green:

Your suffering training for winter has started well!! We need to get on that ‘Dirty Dozen’ challenge in Brimham to escalate matters. 

In reply to Tom Green:

> *sub-topic: we need a ticklist of UK hard chimneys!

One of the most bizarre routes I've ever done - 

The Whistling Chimney (E3 5c)

 Tom Green 11 Oct 2021
In reply to davkeo:

I think it’s Andy Kirkpatrick who said ‘only a fool practices suffering’! But I reckon it’s good to not be surprised by it! 
 

Very psyched for the dirty dozen. It’s my chance for a rematch with charming crack!

 Tom Green 11 Oct 2021
In reply to planetmarshall:

Hmm, is that good bizarre or terrifying bizarre! Given the location I’m thinking the second?! 

 the sheep 09:01 Tue
In reply to AlanLittle:

Cheers Alan, a much better week gone by. Although feeling fine just wandering around covid certainly has had an effect on exercising, running especially is tough. I don't feel like i can get enough air in the lungs at times and leg recovery is taking a lot longer. Anyway glad to be out and about and swimming doesn't feel too bad.

Week went as follows;

Monday, 1km swim

Tuesday, Interval run with youngest daughter, 5km in total

Wednesday, 1km swim

Thursday, 1km swim and stretch class

Friday, 3.5km run with he wife

Saturday, pizza, beer and rugby on the TV 

Sunday, glorious hilly 8.5km trail run. Took it slow but a beautiful morning to be out.

 biscuit 06:57 Wed
In reply to AlanLittle:

Thanks Alan. I'm sure you're going to be ready for a statting rest, but i'm going to miss the efforts you put in. Thanks.

Last week was a recovery week really but went OK too:

M - Half hour boulder at the wall before work. Just to do some movement and see how tired i felt. Surprisingly tired was the answer.

T - Went to the gym - shock, horror! Very much an easy session to just try and remember what it was all about. 

W - Despite purposefully keeping it easy and then taking more weight off whatever i thought was an easy starting weight i still have DOMS today. Good session with 4xV6's done. I do think the setting at BUK is a bit soft atm. This area (my favourite) is due a reset and was set when the weather was hot. Now it's cooled off things feel a bit easier. Even if they're actually V5 i flashed 3 and the other one only took a few goes as i had got my beta wrong. Earlier this year i'd have been pleased with that at BUK and this was meant to be a 75% session, which is how it felt.

T - Can't remember - probably nothing

F - Can't remember - but i think i did something as well as a cold swim in Ullswater

S - Gym again - i've no real structure at the moment just hinge, squat, push, pull on whatever is free. I'm enjoying it. Tried a bit harder. The plan is to visit a couple more times before the hols and then to make it a big part of winter training.

S - Kendal wall - routes. 6b, 6b+, 6c, 6c+, 7a+ second go. 7a+ was a surprise. I fell off half way up the steep section on the onsight. Second go i was a bit more relaxed. I think my fitness has reached a new level as i was able to keep the pump at bay with a quick shake as i moved my hand in the top third. If the route was twice as long i could have kept going like that forever is how it felt. It was hard work, but i just felt that without another crux i could keep motoring. Very pleasing.

This next week will be a couple of intense sessions and the gym to keep ticking over before flying to Chorro on Saturday. I think i'd like 2 more 7b's in a day and a 7b+ as my goals.

> @Somerset swede basher - you still ok to take over statting from the end of the month? My last round will be on the 24th, heading to Greece on the 30th.

Yep, good job you said, I was expecting to start on 7th Nov! 

 Ross Barker 11:17 Wed
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

So I've not picked up a stress ball but I found an old grip-master squeezey spring thing (I'm sure that's the technical term). It felt like it was warming up the forearms but not so much the tissues in the fingers themselves.

Possibly the slightly different motion compared to a stress ball might be why I didn't find it particularly effective, so I'll still be tempted to pick one up.

 biscuit 19:42 Wed
In reply to AJM:

Those steps all add up - or at least stop decline! 

I spent 3 years in maintenance mode (i was in denial about this and still setting goals) and it's surprising how little you need to maintain. So if you're disciplined and structured - yes i'm looking at you - progress is possible.

 biscuit 19:49 Wed
In reply to AJM:

> I used to go to the wall in Gloucester, which didn’t have a great bouldering room at the time but did have a massive bendcrete boulder in the middle of it. 

Best trad training I ever did was at Cockermouth 'climbing' wall. A 15 metre long 4 metre high natural sandstone wall that had become an inside wall when they built the climbing wall extension. Round and round, up and down, hard bits, easy bits, shakeouts for ages. They also had a bendcrete panel. I mourn its loss. 

Get fit, get strong for £30 a year.

To be honest it was the under the radar E7 onsighters who also went there that were the best performance boost.

 AJM 19:50 Wed
In reply to biscuit:

I think maintenance is a lot easier for some things than others (I tend to think you can maintain strength better than fitness in the same small number of hours), but yes, generally I agree.

I remember seeing or listening to something from the Anderson brothers at some point - they'd gone back through training logs and were making strength improvements off 6 hours a week total time investment, which was a great comfort in some ways when miniAJM first arrived and my free time fell off a cliff!

 biscuit 19:53 Wed
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

> I've no idea if the shoulder shrugs are doing anything but when I first started my shoulders made all sorts of unhappy grinding clicking noises and now it's pretty smooth so if nothing else I think they are probably less injury prone now. 

For someone at your level (which always seems to be consistently high btw) i'd want to see 6 single arm scap shrugs (without losing engagement) and a 30 second single arm hang (without spinning round) off a bar as a base level for shoulder capacity.

 AJM 20:38 Wed
In reply to biscuit:

Out of interest, how does that scale down to the "would like to hit fb7B in my strengths, can't do 7A in my weaknesses" sort of level?

I self diagnose my shoulder engagement and general shoulder capability as weak, but it is always good to get a more objective view.

Roughly, of course! I mean, if the answer has "single arm" and "unassisted" in it that's probably all I need to confirm versus my current position!

Post edited at 20:38
In reply to biscuit:

Thanks, that confirms what I though i.e. that the shoulders are a massive weakness in the chain and the reason why I started the shoulder shrugs after a conversation on here last year.  I tried one arm shrugs and I can't do one. I tried taking 30kg off and still couldn't engage at all!  I remember you suggesting that I added some weight to the two arm shrugs but i was concerned about elbow injury as you do them with a straight arm.  Maybe its worth starting to add weight here and see what happens?

This weakness is why I can't do boulder problems where the holds are miles apart as I can't get the engagement to start the upwards drive e.g. Undercuts to Crimp Problem (f7B+).  I can latch the crimp every go and have no issue finger strength wise holding it, I just can't pull.

I should add that I've started the rings work with the idea that it might add some shoulder strength too.

Post edited at 09:45
 AlanLittle 12:35 Fri
In reply to AlanLittle:

Just a heads-up that stats will be late on Sunday - possibly as late as Monday lunchtime.

Weather forecast is sunny but v. cold north of the Alps so we're fleeing to South Tyrol for the weekend. Long drive back on Sunday evening then I have a big meeting on Monday morning.

 biscuit 09:41 Sat
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Not sure why I got a dislike? 
 

Anyway, those figures are my best educated guesses. Holding for 30 secs shows a good endurance base.
 

One or two rep max shrugs would be very intense and tweaky for most. 6 is a decent number that is still within the strength bracket but shouldn’t cause tweaks.

I’m similar in that I don’t normally ping off a hold I fail trying to get to the next one. 
 

Half kneeling cable rows are pretty good for climbing specific strength through range 

https://youtube.com/shorts/MhYTi4AUZG0?feature=share

 biscuit 09:42 Sat
In reply to AlanLittle:

You seem to have suffered with the weather many times this season so I hope you have a cracking weekend 

 biscuit 09:47 Sat
In reply to AJM:

Normally for someone like SSB I’d be looking at other positions and recruitment etc in more detail but I can only really do that face to face. I’d be looking for something that stands out as a difference or a weak bit in the chain. There’s no research that I know of with standardised targets for grades. 
 

 For anyone operating in the 7’s (sport or Boulder) those tests still hold for me. 
 

A good place to start would be the assisted single arm hangs for 3x30secs. Once you can do those at body weight - engaged not dangling - move on to assisted scap pull ups. 

 AJM 09:48 Sat
In reply to biscuit:

Cheers!

 biscuit 09:51 Sat
In reply to AlanLittle:

I’ve come to a decision about what I’m going to go for in El Chorro and just feel the need to state it publicly to affirm it whilst I am packing to fly later.

I will try a 7b, or 7b+ if I like the look of it, every climbing day, rather than trying a 7c over a couple/few days, or 7a/+ onsighting.

So my aim is 5x 7b or above routes over the 5 climbing days we have. 

In reply to biscuit:

The shoulder shrug has got me thinking, as I already know I'm weak in this area. Due to the recent Ulnar nerve issue, I'm avoiding too much bending elbow stuff.

What would you recommend for someone around my level, who climbs more by technique than strength?

Lead 7b steady, either onsight or 1st RP

Boulder V6 indoors within a few attempts, V7 is an achievement.

Max 10s hangs 2 arms around +17kg

Thanks 

 mattrm 14:08 Sat
In reply to AlanLittle:

S/M/LTG - TBC, probably diet related

Weight - 15st 5lbs

M -
T - Wall session
S - S - Rest

Back down the wall this week.  Steady progress on routes and there's already been some definite improvement.  Which is nice.  Diet is sort of in hand now.  Started weighing myself properly.  Had hoped to get out on a decent walk at the tail end of the week, but serious lack of sleep meant that didn't happen.

In reply to biscuit:

Thanks. I'll try and experiment next week and see how much I'd need to take off in order to engage. When I had a go before it was trying to do a full one armer so maybe I'll need less off if just doing shrugs.

I wouldn't worry about the dislike. Seems pointless if the person isn't going to put their viewpoint across too. Shame we can't remove the dislike option on the fit club threads. There's no place for negativity here! 

Post edited at 15:50
 Ross Barker 17:51 Sat
In reply to biscuit & SSB:

I wouldn't worry about the dislike either. Could likely just be someone fat-fingering the wrong but, I've done it a few times myself.

Good shoulder discussion as well guys, been interesting to take ideas to incorporate into my own sessions.


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