UKC

Winter Conditions in Snowdonia

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 Mike Peacock 07 Nov 2010
Looking at the webcams and it seems there is white stuff on the tops (and quite low on Y Garn) that must have come down over night. Snow, hail, frost?

UKC Edit - Title changed to include the word 'conditions' then it shows up automatically on our Winter Conditions page - http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/winter.html
banned profile 74 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: emulsion?
 Banned User 77 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Snow, stripping fast, Elidirs almost free from snow now, off up snowdon in a few hours.
 Only a hill 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Wow.

Hopefully that lot will be on its way here soon! The sky is getting blacker and blacker, and I can already see some of the Aonach Dubh icefalls starting to form (it's quite cold). Ice in Elliot's Downfall already!!
 chasm 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I bagged Snowdon (yesterday and again) this morning. The latter was in the crispy stuff. First snow from 1980 ft elevation.

fhc.co.uk shows temps down to -1 last night. With windspeeds gusting up to 40mph on the top then effective temperatures are -11C so go prepared.
OP Mike Peacock 07 Nov 2010
In reply to chasm: Cheers for the info. I think I might go for a bimble up to Cwm Lloer in a few hours.
 chasm 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
MetOffice fcast for wind and rain overnight combine with the 0 to -1 temps to give (imho) more sleet hail snow combos on the summits. Tomorrow afternoon's heavy showers. A MetOffice Advisory is out for Severe Weather so plan accordingly and have fun!
 jezb1 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Was climbing in the sun at Tremadog today with great views to some snowy tops.
 Banned User 77 07 Nov 2010
In reply to chasm: Just had a run up to Clogwyn station, which is about the snow line. Cold and looks like bad weather isn't far off..
 alexstudly 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Been in it today well camped in it last night.

Started hail/sleety snow about 11pm,

Then woke up to snow about 450m, only light stuff but was -3 plus wind chill on top of carnedd dafydd, got some pics but don't know how to up load them....

Started melting an seemed to be holding about 800m at about 4pm.....

Fingers crossed there is more to come!!
 alexstudly 07 Nov 2010
In reply to alexstudly:

Oh and thanks for the fire work display at the ogwyn mountain rescue centre last night not, put on for me, just happened to be camping and was right in front of me!!

(If any one who was at it last night reads this)
 The Bushman 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Some lovely images
 Rampikino 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Clear day around Ogwen today with some striking views of snow-topped peaks. Lovely stuff.
 dgp 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Walked over the Carneddau today - really good cover with drifts upto you knees in places. Freezing on the tops but thawing fast in the sun on the south side
 Andy Mountains 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

A couple of very nice pics there Mike!
Thickhead 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Went up the Carneddau from Bwlch Y Ddeuwaen today, lots of snow early this morning almost down to the Roman Rd. Bit higher up by the time I finished about 1ish. Knee deep on the ridge. Can;t believe its winter time again already...
 andyd1970 07 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Hi Mike forgive me if I am not mistaken but didn't you start the Welsh Winter conditions last winter. If so looks like you did it again!
Andy
OP Mike Peacock 07 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970: I didn't. It was Charlie Burbridge I believe.

I've just returned from Cwm Lloer. The ground was soft, but through the gloom extensive snow was visible on the headwall. It stayed dry, but the wind was gusting quite strongly.

Hopefully the rain forecast in the week will fall as snow on the tops.
OP Mike Peacock 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Looks like a lot more snow fell overnight. The snow line is quite low.
 GarethHarvey 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: If your interested here is an interesting website, recording the snowline (and iceline) in Snowdonia. Interestingly it also has historic details of the snowline for the last decade.


http://www.llansadwrn-wx.co.uk/ice/snow.html
OP Mike Peacock 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I've just seen some photos from Y Gribin and the Glyders today. It looks like the snow is quite deep in places.
stevo 30 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: just wondering at this time of year do routes such as central trinity on snowdon ever get in good condition, started my winter climbing properly last season and this ones first on my list I'm itching to do it! Cheers.
 WILLS 08 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30: unless you want to spend a few hours swimming through powder n slush i'd let it settle a bit first
 chasm 09 Nov 2010
In reply to alexstudly:


Not surprised by -3. If nothing else, my Snickers Bar was telling me it was pretty nippy. Not sure where the FHC instruments are.. must have been -1 inside!

Hopefully put some pics up later.
OP Mike Peacock 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: The snow has retreated but there's still plenty of white stuff hanging around in some places. It was 3 degrees at 500m, so must have been cold on the tops.

Tryfan West Face:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5161826630/sizes/l/

Glyder Fach:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5161222695/sizes/l/

Y Garn:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5161222411/sizes/l/

Cwm Lloer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5161825806/sizes/l/

Bristly Ridge:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5161824988/sizes/l/
 DH 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Great info & photos Mike....Good to see the elusive 'Banana Gully' on Y Garn almost looking in!
 Andy Mountains 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Y Garn looks interesting. I have never done BC Buttress or CD Buttress, but they will be the sort of mixed routes which will come into condition first. I have put an Y Garn topo on the Welsh Winter Climbs Wiki site here if anyone is interested: http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com/page/Y+Garn
 Andy Mountains 09 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970:

I think you are right Andy, it looks like Mike has startred this seasons Welsh Winter Conditions thread!!
OP Mike Peacock 09 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Nicely done Andy. I'm itching to get out, even if just for a snowy walk. However, I don't think I'll be able to escape until Monday!
 MikeLell 10 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30: Did Central Tinity Gully in November last year, so yes its possible. If there isn't enough snow to get over the chockstone there is a slightly sketchy diversion around it on mixed ground to the left.

Happy climbing!
 andyd1970 10 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: good its official winter has started. Can't wait too get out in the stuff
Andy
 ruaidh 10 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

There's a warm front from the atlantic due to assert over the next few days, but temperatures forecast to dip again after that. Two weeks I reckon.

Planning a trip up w/e 27th if anyone's interested.
In reply to Mike Peacock: Nice One, Mike, I think you've got it this year. There is always a cold snap at the end of November, a melt in early December and then if we are lucky winter starts in earnest. It was a great thread last year - here's hoping for a great one this year!

By the way, classic welsh conditions often involve little snow but water ice and rock. When the wind turns from the north in a week or so we may be in for some of those conditions.

Charlie
 andyd1970 11 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Hi All has all the snow gone it looked like there was a little left on the tops looking at the web cams today. I know it was due to snow high up late today was thinking of a nice walk tomorrow on the carnedds or Glyders depending which has the most left.
Andy
OP Mike Peacock 11 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970: I saw the mountains this afternoon at 1:30pm. There has been quite a thaw on. It looked like the Carneddau round Cwm Caseg/Llewelyn still had some, but it's tricky to guess how much will be left.
 Banned User 77 11 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970: From Nant it looks like there isn't much left in the Glyders. Elidir was totally clear from this side.
 chasm 11 Nov 2010
 Misha 12 Nov 2010
In reply to chasm:
I'd say those steps to the summit of Snowdon are in.
OP Mike Peacock 12 Nov 2010
In reply to chasm: Nice photos, but they aren't the Moelwyns. It's Moel Hebog and co.
OP Mike Peacock 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: It must be winter; Baggy has updated his blog!
http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.com/2010/11/welcome-back-first-signs-have-arrived....
 chasm 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Thanks. Its not my only error / omission it seems... will update.
In reply to Mike Peacock: any up-to-date info from today? planning to go out tomorrow and want to know what to expect.
 Banned User 77 12 Nov 2010
In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC): Much milder, classic SW last night, looking into Cwm Glas today, looked bare.
 andyd1970 12 Nov 2010
In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC): Been up to Bristley Ridge on the glyders but not right onto the tops due to bad winds today. Of what I could see there was nothing left really just bits that aint been in the sun.
 Banned User 77 12 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970: Wifes just been swimming (in the nude so she says..) in Llyn Clyd under Y Garn...said it was cold...
 MikeLell 13 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to andyd1970) Wifes just been swimming (in the nude so she says..) in Llyn Clyd under Y Garn...said it was cold...



 Glyno 13 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to andyd1970) Wifes just been swimming (in the nude so she says..) in Llyn Clyd under Y Garn...said it was cold...

I imagine there's a nip in the air
 Andy Mountains 14 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Did the promised 7cm of snow (according to snowforecast.com) happen last night?

The Tryfan & Ogwen webcams went off in the storms the other day (in case you are interested)
OP Mike Peacock 14 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: I've been elsewhere for the weekend. There were isolated patches on the Carneddau visible today but the high tops were hidden. It's cold now though, and the forecast looks good for more snow.
 johnnorman 14 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:




This photo taken today shows only a light dusting on the Glyders, but its set to get cold.

[IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/91jl1v.jpg[/IMG]
 Andy Mountains 14 Nov 2010
In reply to johnnorman:

Thanks for that Mike & John.

Don't think its set to get cold enough to get any winter routes climbed this week though. I had been (rather optimistically) hoping to get out winter climbing this tuesday & thursday. Ah well.
Fingers crossed for next week or the week after.
OP Mike Peacock 15 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: There was new snow on Snowdon this morning but I suspect it will melt in the sun. I'll get some photos up tomorrow but it looks like it's back to waiting for now.
OP Mike Peacock 16 Nov 2010
In reply to Cadairmanuk: Photos from today. Taken from a distance but they show what's left.

Snowdon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5182014889/sizes/l/

Carnedd Llewelyn:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5182014591/sizes/l/
stevo 30 17 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: anyone know if any of this rain fell as snow high up on snowdon 2day? Cheers
 iksander 18 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30: http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Snowdon/6day/top

Looks like rain, sign up for a snow alert
 Andy Mountains 18 Nov 2010
In reply to iksander:

Looks to be getting a lot colder next week though. Have a look on the 9 day forecast.
 iksander 18 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: I don't have a subscription, so can only see 6 days - possibly about as far ahead as you can forecast with reasonable accuracy?

Looks good up to Tuesday night though...
stevo 30 18 Nov 2010
In reply to iksander: nice one love the site feel like I can't miss a thing now cheers!
stevo 30 19 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: looking like there might be some snow mid week freezing levels getting lower and lower as week goes on so I've got mi fingers crossed for some routes in nick bi next weekend!
OP Mike Peacock 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Fresh snow on the Carneddau today, although it's been hard to tell how much due to the low cloud. Certainly quite low on Llwytmor behind Aber Falls.
 Mr Fuller 21 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30: Me too! The forecast is looking cold for the next week, but only time will tell...
 andyd1970 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Cool that must of come through the night or today as it wasn't snowing when we got down at about 5pm Saturday evening
Andy
In reply to Mike Peacock: Parsley Fern often freezes to form a ribbon of ice in these conditions... Fingers crossed!
stevo 30 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Charlie Burbridge: parsley fern left hand or shallow gully is what I'm hoping for nxt weekend judging by the guide book this area is one of the most reliable areas in Snowdonia, never done either of the routes so what are they like for soloing? Feel like a kid on Christmas eve can't wait to get axes and crampons out! Thanks!
OP Mike Peacock 21 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30: It seems Hourglass Gully had an ascent today:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=47788
 Andy Mountains 21 Nov 2010
In reply to stevo 30:

I will be down in the mountains on tues & thurs this week. I'm hoping by thursday there may be the odd route climbable (although it might be a bit premature)
Will post findings on here & of course my blog in due course.
stevo 30 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: that would be great cheers hope its in for you when ur there this week have fun!
 DH 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Hi Mike, me & a couple of friends went for a quick look - not much in the way of decent snow, but the turf was reasonable for the last 50 metres or so. Routes should be good next weekend after the weeks predicted cold snap....We live in hope!
OP Mike Peacock 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Darren Hollins: You must have been well prepared to have axes with you considering the lack of snow yesterday. Good stuff!

Any photos?
 DH 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Yeah, Knew that was going to be a dusting last night, along with the cold airflow, so thought it wouldn't hurt to take them along - besides I needed get get the dust & cobwebs off em! Photos to follow...
Mr Eddie 21 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: went up snowdon with the mrs today. Nightmare. All the polished rocks on the footpath had polished ice on them. I left the crampons in the car she took hers. Best decision she ever made. It was like an ice rink from where the pyg meets the miners.

Obviously there were loads of the jeans / trainers brigade there too.
 Slarti B 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Went up North face of Tryfan today. Thin coating of snow started about 600m level but didn't really get much thicker. Made it pretty treacherous and slippy tough.

While waiting for pick-up at Ogwen cottage in the afternoon saw the rescue helicopter go past twice, looked like East face of Tryfan both times. Hope everyone OK.
In reply to stevo 30:

Steve, in lean conditions the middle pitch of Parsley Fern gives about 10-12 metres of easy grade 3 ice (bit more than a Grade 2 ice step but only just). The stream at the bottom, if frozen, provides easy fun. Above the main pitch it forms as a thin ribbon, not steep enough to dagger but still fun. Easy solo. Parsley Fern left hand often forms in a more impressive ice fall in early season. It looks hard from below but depending on its formation it is similar in difficulty to Idwal Stream although much shorter. Taken steadily it is a nice solo. In early season, if formed, they form as pure ice and if you are not confident with crampon and ice axe placements, this can be a little scary - it is not the same as soloing a banked out Grade II. Bottom line is, they are both worth it. Have a look and see what you think.

Charlie
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
Can't believe people are even talking about winter routes in Snowdonia at the moment...Sat here looking at the Glyders, there is a mere sprinkling of snow at maybe 900m. Last winter was pretty exceptional, hardly the norm. We don't want to encourage climbing of routes with winter gear when the routes are no where near in nick, not even border line, it amounts to environmental vandalism..sorry to be blunt. Off for a run in the Carneddau or Yr Wyddfa in a few moments but won't be expecting scottish winter conditions...
OP Mike Peacock 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Iain, I share your concern but I don't think people are being encouraged to go and scratch away at warm rock just yet. A lot of people (myself included) have been looking forward to winter for a while. Now the temperatures have been dropping and the snow has fallen a few times, and the excitement builds, and this thread is a place to share that.

Obviously on any given day it's up to the individual to decide if a route is in and if conditions are good. Some people will climb stuff that isn't in, and yes it is vandalism, but that's always the way. I'm in no way excusing such behaviour but there's nothing wrong with people sat here discussing what they hope to get done for the winter, even if it is currently on the optimistic side of things
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I think when routes are in SSSI's I think caution should be the name of the game. When damaging pursuits such as off roading are being curtailed by changes to access I don't think winter climbing will be too far off the radar if we see rather extreme interpretations of what 'winter' is.
 timjones 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> Can't believe people are even talking about winter routes in Snowdonia at the moment...Sat here looking at the Glyders, there is a mere sprinkling of snow at maybe 900m. Last winter was pretty exceptional, hardly the norm. We don't want to encourage climbing of routes with winter gear when the routes are no where near in nick, not even border line, it amounts to environmental vandalism..sorry to be blunt. Off for a run in the Carneddau or Yr Wyddfa in a few moments but won't be expecting scottish winter conditions...

Threads such as this are as likely to reduce damage as they are to increase it. Good information that stops people travelling long distances on the offchance can only reduce the number of people that decide to climb in lean condtions because they've travelled miles and light as well get something done.

 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to timjones: I do agree, but reports of people climbing actual winter routes.....there was a slight covering of snow, but almost all snow had gone by Saturday. I was out yesterday and whilst it was cold and there was a sprinkling..it was hardly 'winter' conditions.

Also people proposing that there's a good chance of routes. I think there has to be a bit more restraint. The NT and NPA must be getting concerned, especially in places like Cwm Idwal. There's times you'll run over the Glyders and you'll hear the ping ping ping of axes bashing against rock. There's certainly too many who are overly keen to climb routes using winter gear before it's required.

I'm just offering the other side of the debate.

I think last year may have raised people expectations a tad too much. Snowdonia, no doubt provides great winter climbing, but its incredibly sporadic. We all know some routes can come into condition quickly, but the gully lines generally take a while to form and also they tend to contain some of the rarer plants.
OP Mike Peacock 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: You're entirely right. Especially round Cwm Idwal and Cwm Clyd. However, CCW and the BMC seem to be monitoring it. I recall a survey of Clogwyn Du in summer concluded that winter climbing hadn't done any damage to the vegetation there. But as ever people will have to pick a route that's suitable in the conditions. For those who have driven quite a way to grab a tick it may be hard to persuade them to climb elsewhere.

Perhaps the new guidebook will get people away from the honeypots to new areas...
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I know, but winter climbing in Snowdonia seems to be having a resurgence, there seems to be people talking it about it far more but you also hear the pinging of axes quite regularly now whenever the peaks look wet. I was on Tryfan the other NY's, incredibly mild, extremely wet snow thawing at all levels and at the summit all you could hear was pinging of axes on rock.

New guidebook will be great to see.
Footless Crow 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> Can't believe people are even talking about winter routes in Snowdonia at the moment...Sat here looking at the Glyders, there is a mere sprinkling of snow at maybe 900m. Last winter was pretty exceptional, hardly the norm. We don't want to encourage climbing of routes with winter gear when the routes are no where near in nick, not even border line, it amounts to environmental vandalism..sorry to be blunt. Off for a run in the Carneddau or Yr Wyddfa in a few moments but won't be expecting scottish winter conditions...>>

Absolutely Iain ! My experience living in NE Wales at 700' above sea level and looking across the valley at hills up to 1400' is that this year here it has been exceptionally mild. And that's going back 20 years here. My gut instinct-supported by statistics-is that after last years' unusually severe winter in N Wales,this will be a relatively mild and wet winter...as per usual !
The idea of winter climber's hacking away at slightly frozen,uncovered and possibly delicate eco-systems in the name of 'sport' is just bonkers,deluded and selfish.

Note to would be eco vandals. This is North Wales we're talking about..not the fcuking Rockies or even the Highlands of Scotland.

Go for a bike ride or the climbing wall if you're bored!

 LakesWinter 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: I think people are more looking forward to next Monday or Tuesday, when there could well be climbable ice in a number of higher drainage lines. If this is the case then vegetation should be quite safe as it will be well hidden under several inches of ice and not subject to damage.

I agree with the other point though, it's environmentally really selfish to go hammering away at unfrozen vegetation, so a proper hard freeze is needed before climbing, especially at the start of the season when the ground temperatures are higher
Irishonthewirral 22 Nov 2010
In reply to MattG: "environmentally really selfish to go hammering away at unfrozen vegetation"

were as hammering away at frozen vegetation is much better??

Environmentally hammering away at any vegetation should be avoided altogether
 timjones 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Footless Crow:

There appears to be a quote on your profile about "Proving the age of mountaineering romance isn't dead ! "

If you truly want to live up to that statement I'd suggest you quit whinging and allow the rest of us to dream a little
 Monkeyrock 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Footless Crow: Havent been on this site for months, mainly coz I got sick to death of sanctimonious, elitist, pr1cks like you. And is it any better to ruin the eco system of the rockies or anywhere else for that matter.

Also almost any weather forecast more than 6-7 days in advance is worth about as much as your superior opinions.

Get a life!

Aghhhhhhh "rant over"

Footless Crow 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Monkeyrock:

Point taken. Apologies for interrupting another winter 'boys with their toys' thread.

J
 Mr p 22 Nov 2010
This is supposed to be a post on conditions not a bunch of guys getting goby at each other, you should get a life for coming on here and wasting your time by typing rubbish.

What are the conditions like up there at the moment?

 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to philipb: Why not get out and have a look if you have such a life...Snow level at around 900m on the more shaded aspects. It was almost totally gone by Saturday, even Snowdon seemed to hold none at the highest levels, yet some more fell Sunday. Temps were cold again last night but the snow level is still very high. Forgive me for just mentioning that people should be cautious climbing in areas of national importance....
 Andy Mountains 22 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

We are at the beginning of another winter climbing season here in North Wales, wether some of you like it or not. My gut instinct after living in NE Wales for 24 years & after doing a LOT of research on weather patterns recently, is that we have NO IDEA wether it will be a very severe winter again or not, it is just speculation!
However the forecasts are telling us that it DEFINETLY is going to get very very cold for a period of at least a week, starting later on this week. So there will be some of us (plenty probably) who WILL be out participating in winter climbing. I for one will be very responsible in my route choices, and am definetly NOT an eco vandal or whatever other phrases are being chucked around on here.

I completely agree with what Tim said earlier about these winter conditions threads helping to protect areas being damaged, as we are discussing (or meant to be!) our findings in the hills, and winter conditions in Snowdonia in general. This can only be a good thing!

Now lets get this thread back on track.
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Lived here for nearly 8 years, after what duration is one able to hold a valid view....I seriously didn't think mentioning being careful climbing around rare alpine plants and in SSSi's would be so contraversial...
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Use of forecast and definitely...'Highly probable..in all likelihood'..but definitely....
 Rob Johnson 22 Nov 2010
I have been into Cwm Idwal and scrambled up North West Face Route and the top of the Idwal Staircase and then headed up into Cwm Cneifion. As you can see from the photo on the blog http://www.expeditionguide.com/blog.htm the upper Cwm is looking nice and white but at the moment it is little more than a cosmetic dusting. It is forecast to stay cold for the rest of the week so with some more snow and lower temperatures we could see the start of the mixed climbing season here in Snowdonia soon!
 Mr p 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: I live down south were the sun is always shining and people are happy to talk to each other on conditions of climbs, that’s why I don’t just go have a look.
 Banned User 77 22 Nov 2010
In reply to philipb: And I live and work in Snowdonia and am pretty concerned about people climbing in a SSSI hence why I made the post..who would have thought it would be so contraversial...
 Andy Mountains 22 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to trek) Use of forecast and definitely...'Highly probable..in all likelihood'..but definitely....

Point taken there.

Iain is completely right in pointing out that we all need to be careful & responsible in our route choices this winter.

Hard not to get a wee bit excited though eh.
 Rob Johnson 22 Nov 2010
With the cliffs of North Wales seeing more winter activity in 2010 (probably more than the last ten years combined!), there was concern that some of the protected plants and precious habitats found at these locations would be an inadvertent casualty.

In early July, Elfyn Jones (BMC Access Officer for Wales) accompanied Dr Barbara Jones (Upland Ecologist for the Countryside Council for Wales and a keen climber) and Hywel Roberts (Nature Reserve Site Manager) to Cwm Idwal to investigate if there had been any damage caused by climbers to these important protected sites.

The condition of the ledge and crack vegetation did not look to have been affected by last winter’s climbing. The tall-herb stands on the ledges appeared to be intact and in the cracks investigated, there was little evidence of vegetation having been cleared, despite them being on or next to known climbs. These sites are monitored quite frequently and so any obvious damage would be noticed.

This doesn't mean that we can be complacent though, if we do get more cold winters and if dry tooling and climbing on frozen turf becomes more popular, then it is possible that there will be an effect quite quickly on these vulnerable plant communities. So please be extra careful and avoid damaging any exposed turf, particularly on these cliffs where there is known botanical interest.

This is a shortened version of the full article. For the full article visit: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=3877
 Banned User 77 23 Nov 2010
In reply to Rob Johnson: TBH I'd have expected that. In a severe winter then climbing 'should' have little impact. You'd expect under the right conditions winter climbing should be one of the least impacting activities.

But generally I think damage will occur in the more marginal conditions.

 mynyddresident 23 Nov 2010
An emerging consensus amongst local mixed climbers is that we invest in a snipers rifle to police the mixed scene. A shot across the bow so to speak would curb the over-enthusiastic marginal conditions types. An example would be made. This will work as per the North Wales Bolt Fund drill and may be kept at V12 and can be signed out if required on thise milder days.
 Fiskavaig 23 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:Just our luck, just when the Snowdon and oggi cams are needed, they are all out of action!
OP Mike Peacock 24 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Hmm, an interesting morning.

The snow was quite low first thing, down to below 500m on the Migneint (the moor south of Betws), and it was a beautiful day.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5204387352/sizes/l/
I was fieldworking, but after an hour the blizzard swept in! We had to retreat in case the road became impassable:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5204387126/sizes/l/

It was therefore quite surprising to see that the snow must have passed south of the main ranges, as it was quite thin in the Ogwen Valley.

Y Garn:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5204386982/sizes/l/

Glyder Fach:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5204386788/sizes/l/

Tryfan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5204386584/sizes/l/
 Rob Johnson 24 Nov 2010
I have been out with Kate today who is on my trainee instructor mentor scheme. As I drove down the Ogwen Valley this morning I was surprised to see snow on the road and a good coverage on the tops. After a cup of tea in the cafe we decided to make the most of the snow and head over Crib Goch. Kate had not worn crampons for a couple of years but had previously done some winter mountaineering and climbing and so was well within her comfort zone. As you can see in the photos (on my Blog) the Northern aspects all have a nice coverage of snow whilst on the Southern side of the mountains there was less to see. We made our way over Crib Goch and discussed when to put the crampons on. As we gained height on Crib Y Dysgyl we were glad of them as a good layer of hoar frost and fresh snow covered the ridge. There were plenty of folk sliding down the zig zags on their backside who would have been glad of them too! As I drove home it was snowing hard again so it looks promising for the rest of the week.
Climbing Conditions: At the moment the snow is unconsolidated (except where its been compressed on the path) and needs a bit of a thaw and re-freeze to provide a snow pack for climbing on. The turf is also not yet fully frozen, even over 1000m. There was no ice forming yet today on the Trinity Face on Snowdon but hoar frost is developing nicely and so with a couple more days of cold weather there could be some good mixed climbing to be had. The classic grade 1 ridges like Crib Goch, North Ridge of Tryfan, Bristly Ridge & The Gribin are already giving some great sport.
 Run_Ross_Run 24 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Its nice to see this thread back on track after all the deviations of the last few days.

Keep it going I say.

Darren.
 Run_Ross_Run 24 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Hmmmmmm. p178 - North Wales Classic.
 Andy Mountains 24 Nov 2010
From my blog http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

Today I headed into Snowdonia to see how the winter was coming along. As I drove through Bethesda up the A5 I wasn't too impressed by the volume (or lack of!) white stuff on the mountains. However looking up from Ogwen cottage towards Cwm Cneifion area filled with with some optimism, & I opted for The Gribin Ridge. There is hardly any snow cover below the 700m mark in the Glyders, but as I got to the 'football pitch' & looked up at the ridge proper it was like a different world! I had just been walking up a hill on an autumn day & ahead of me was a mountain ridge in winter conditions. Excellent! At about the 800m mark where you get onto the ridge, there is a good 2 inches of fairly fresh snow cover & plenty of hoar frost on the rocks. The higher I went the whiter it becomes until when I popped out on the Glyder plateau I was greeted with a full on winter Glyder scene! By the looks of it none of the gullies even high up in Cwm Cneifion are anywhere near 'in condition'. I had a peep into the top of Tower Gully, but there is only a couple of inches of soft snow on top of loose scree & unfrozen turf. Hidden Gully looked pretty awful too. There was a bloke trudging up Easy Route at the head of the Cwm, and I could see again it was shallow snow & vegetation. The ominous looking Clogwyn Ddu cliffs looked dark & sinister & definetly not climbable. There is no ice whatsoever in Idwal, or any snow to speak of. All the popular ice routes are at present wet, black & slimy.
I would imagine that for the next day or two ridges & easy rocky buttresses are the way to go. Routes like The Gribin Ridge, Tryfan N.Ridge, Crib Goch & Crib Y Ddysgl, Clogwyn Y Person Arete, BC & CD buttresses on Y Garn etc..
The forecast suggests more snow over the next few days & very cold temperatures, so by the weekend or early next week there may be lots of fun to be had.

 chlobach 25 Nov 2010
Well it's snowing in Bangor at the mo so I assume there will be some up in the hills!
 mux 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: cheers Andy

I was dreaming of getting out on Sunday but I think I might let it set in a little longer...

I feel a dose of man flu on the way so dont want to drag myself out if its looking marginal.

keep up the good work on the blogs Andy and MMD
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010

Any conditions reports & photos anyone has, feel free to email them to me at andymountains@googlemail.com & I PROMISE to put them on the blog. Doesn't matter if you are into grade I gullies or putting up daring new mixed winter lines! The more information we have on conditions in our Welsh peaks the better.

http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

 mux 25 Nov 2010
In reply to mux: Although looking at the MWIS forcast I might need to crack out the Lemsip cocktails and sweat the barstool out of me.

hmmmm ....
 Banned User 77 25 Nov 2010
In reply to mux: We have snow/hail to the garden level in Nant, but there is very little. Last night I ran up to 2000ft and it was starting to freeze above ~400m. There's still not much up high though, just looks wintry.

Maybe some people on here should stop posting snide comments and get out. If you live in Wales get up in the hills. I'm out almost every night after work so have a good idea of conditions.
 Banned User 77 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: There's not that much more today than is shown in your pictures by the looks of things. Heading out tonight but probably just to Gyrn Wigau or Drosgyl, so will put some pictures up.
 Banned User 77 25 Nov 2010
In reply to Dan Halperin: Rob was out on Crib Goch and they opted for crampons. Not much snow up there but if it freezes they may well be needed.

http://rob-johnson.blogspot.com/2010/11/crib-goch-in-snow.html
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010
In reply to Dan Halperin:
> (In reply to trek)
>
> Did you need crampons for this? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vyq-y8_abEg/TO15R50JcJI/AAAAAAAAAYY/vgPaer5W4h8/s...

I didn't get my crampons out the sack no. But that was yesterday.
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010
By the way, if anyone is interested I have a brand new Columbia 700 fill down jacket for sale for £70 on a UKC ad here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=434751
 climber_medic 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Good man at C&A shot there Andy
 Rob Johnson 25 Nov 2010
We used yesterdays conditions on Crib Goch as a teaching aid to decide if crampons were necessary or not. We decided (having worn them for half the route) that they made life easier but were not essential. We were glad of them on the way down though.

Today I have been running a navigation course so did not go above about 450m. There is snow down to the road in Capel and the freezing level was down to about 400m. What we really need is a thaw and re-freeze as with any early season snow to consolidate and give a base to the snowpack. The mixed climbing should be good for the weekend though. More photos on the blog: http://www.expeditionguide.com/blog.htm

Rob Johnson MIC
 mynyddresident 25 Nov 2010
Ice forming in Idwal.
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Anyone fancy hooking up tomorrow? Don't mind what for. Was thinking something like Crib Goch. Whatever really.
 andyd1970 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Might see you out and about tomorrow, me and a friend are heading down there from chester
Andy
stevo 30 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: I will be there sat mornin bout 7:30 to 8 if u can wait forecasting a pretty nice day for sat!
 Banned User 77 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Ran over Moel Wnion tonight, only a low peak, just below the 600 mark, but was surprised how little snow there was. Nice night, cold at first. Even felt quite warm.

Weekend looks stunning weatherwise too. Running a nav course so would be good to not have too much more snow..
 carld 25 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: Hey Andy, I'm back out of summer hibernation! Can't go tomorrow but would like to get out on Monday by which time you never know there may be some ice about. Looks like weather goes a bit severe after Monday for couple days. I'll be out with a mate on Sunday somewhere, not sure where as yet, something ridgey probably. I've had a couple of days out so far, Bristly Ridge and down gribin last Sunday was fun.Let me know if you fancy Monday.Carl
Thickhead 25 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Hardly any snow on Wnion this evening but I suppose its right on the coast too - earlier on Cnicht (only about 100m higher) snow came down much lower right to below the level of the top of the Crimea Pass at about 380m.

Small/shallow lakes are starting to freeze above 600m.

Ground still boggy in places - but 2 clean dogs at the end of the run - bonus!

Its still very early days for this winter.
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010
In reply to andyd1970:

Andy, where are you headed to? I wont be at Pen y Pass until about 10.30 - 11.00am. Green astra estate (dirty & battered with a couple of climbing stickers om it)
I am thinking of a blast around the horseshoe.
 Andy Mountains 25 Nov 2010
In reply to carld:

Hi Carl, good to hear from you. I can't do monday I'm afraid, have to work. I have partners for tuesday & thursday next week & won't be able to get down there any other days. The week after though I am free. You have my number, let me know.
Andy
MarketBoy 26 Nov 2010
In reply to trek:

I'm Nantlle Ridging Saturday, west to east followed by South ridge and tourist track into Llanberis.

Sunday I'm looking for inspiration. Horseshoe, anyone ???
 Misha 26 Nov 2010
There's been some mention of mixed routes possibly being in by the weekend. Suspect this depends on what is meant by 'in condition' as I imagine it's been too cold for any freeze thaw, though the turf might be frozen. Would appreciate any tips on where could be worth a look. I wonder if some of the easier ice lines in Idwal and Cwm Cneifion might be just about doable on rock gear (I guess placing a screw in Wales in November would be quite remarkable). Only one way to find out, with a scramble as a back up plan. Originally was just thinking of doing some winter walking but some of the posts got me thinking...
 Banned User 77 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Misha: Snow fell last night, still falling this morning, right down to valley floor level in the pass. Should be some decent accumulations higher up.

Not sure many of the ice routes will have formed yet, we've only had a few days of cold sub 0 weather.



 ruaidh 26 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

w/e 4/5 dec looks like the one. Call me an optimist but we have a very cold patch coming and then temperatures are due to pop up again next week but with continued cold nights.
 lithos 26 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

wild punt - anyone know what conditions/ how much snow over on Carneddau

http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com/page/Carneddau

I'm guessing unconsolidated snow in the gullies
 Paul Crusher R 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: Cant access this photo Iwan.
 Iwan 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Hopefully the link will work now

http://imageevent.com/imagedude/blog?p=52&n=49&m=24&c=4&l=0...
 Iwan 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

The above link is Moel Eilio taken at 4PM on Friday.
 Iwan 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

and here's 'The 'Don'* from Deiniolen

http://imageevent.com/imagedude/blog?p=53&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&...




*heard someone refer to Snowdon as 'The Don' whilst in Llanberis today!
 Ander 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Irishonthewirral:


There's a big difference between hammerign away at frozen turf and hammering away at unfrozen turf.
 andyd1970 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Just got back form doing Y Gribbin and the glyders. Loads of snow all the way down to the road but its just very powdery and no where near in conditon.
Andy
 Rob Johnson 26 Nov 2010
Wow what a lot of snow! I have been working again today and headed up the Gribin Ridge. We topped out on the Glyders and then descended Easy Gully into Cwm Cneifion. It was a stunning day to be out. Climbing Conditions: There was a team on Clogwyn Du as shown in the photos and the crag looked nice and white. We found that on the Gribin ridge the snow added to the sport but was largely unconsolidated powder as you would expect. On the summit the ground was frozen and there were some nice patches of hard snow to enjoy. Easy Gully was basically snow on rock and scree, it was good fun but really needed a base of harder snow to look after our ankles! There was ice starting to form high in the Cwm but we are some way off having ice to climb on. There are lots of photos here: http://www.expeditionguide.com/blog.htm
 Cardi 26 Nov 2010
Did Crib Goch and down Pyg by moonlight last night. Incredible. Snowed up rock condition without consolidation was more tricky than 'full' winter nick, but still enjoyable.
 mike4563 26 Nov 2010
Any advice for what would be good to do on Sunday. Only had a few days on some grade 1 and 2 gullies in Scotland last year. So ill be looking to do something of a similar grade.

Any ideas. or advice on guides ect?

Cheers
 panad 26 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

In the cold, dry conditions the snow remains un-consolidated and powdery, with pockets of buried graupel. There is no base.

Above 950m the turf is partly frozen but most places remains snow covered/insulated and un-frozen. ie, the bottom of the highest crags are still out of condition.

Ice is just starting to form, slowly.

Light rime found on high crags (not much wind recently).
 Andy Mountains 26 Nov 2010
From blog http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

There is tonnes of snow everywhere at the moment, but it is very powdery, apart from on the tops where it has been scoured down hard by the wind. We could do with a thaw then refreeze before any of the gullies come anything like into condition.
The ice routes in Idwal are all starting to form, but are a long way off being climbable.
The weather forecast for the next week at least is for some very cold conditions.

Today's photos on the blog.
 cmsg 27 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I have a three day weekend coming up, and was thinking of what might be in nick. Should the temperatures stay similarly low right through to next weekend, could we expect the Cwm Idwal routes to be well established, or would they need somewhat longer than that?

Thanks,
Che Gannarelli.
 LakesWinter 27 Nov 2010
In reply to cmsg: well, if Idwal is in there will be 40000000 posts on here about it so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out!
 jimjimjim 27 Nov 2010
In reply to cmsg: Yes, i'd think there should be a bit to go at by next weekend, i hope so because i think i'll be having a look, might see you there. The big question is will kinder dow...

i'll get me coat.
 cmsg 27 Nov 2010
In reply to MattG: Never was a truer word spoken.
OP Mike Peacock 27 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I've been out today on Tryfan's North Ridge. We put crampons on quite low down as the popular paths are icy, but after another 100m we took them off and didn't need them for the rest of the day, although plenty were wearing theirs.

There's lots of powder snow around, and I even found one small section of windslab. Most people were avoiding the North Tower by the Eastern Traverse but we took it direct and found it quite exciting. A fantastic day though, and lots of smiley people enjoying the snow!

Tryfan:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5212067526/sizes/l/

Obligatory Cannon photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5211465523/sizes/l/

Eastern Traverse:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5212066506/sizes/l/

Down the ridge:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5212066900/sizes/l/

And finally, a group from Cardiff Uni who took the Eastern Traverse and ascended direct to the summit:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5211466421/sizes/l/
 rockcatch 27 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I think I played leapfrog with Mike most of the way up the North Ridge. The snow was extremely powdery going across the Eastern Traverse, and it looked like I was probably the first across it today. In hindsight sticking to the North Ridge may have been the better choice.

Views were excellent all day. Crampons weren't really necessary, but were useful in places. Actually more people descending from Y Glyderau seemed to be using them.

Photos are at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/

 edpd1b 27 Nov 2010
Cwm Lloer today, nothing consolidated in the gullies, did Right Dand Y Gully but wasnt much crack. OK but nothing special.

Anyone been in Black Ladders today, condition update???
OP Mike Peacock 27 Nov 2010
In reply to rockcatch: Excellent; I'm even in one of your photos!

Did we stop to chat to you at any point?
OP Mike Peacock 27 Nov 2010
In reply to rockcatch: Sorry, ignore that, I just saw your profile pic!
stevo 30 27 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: had a scout around cwm glas today and gully wise there's absolutely nothing anywhere near like being in condition, in the end made mi way onto crib goch just as the cloud lifted and it were stunning, for the stat fans I took a wind speed reading of 52mph and a windchill of -27 yea it felt bloody cold good day though!
 Banned User 77 27 Nov 2010
In reply to rockcatch: We just ran from Ogwen Cottage up to Llyn Y Cwn, then over Glyders Fawr and Fach and down from Bwlch Tryfan. Left at 7pm, -5, nice 2 hr run. Re-assuring to have an ice axe, needed in places on steeper climbs and descents of guly nuext to bristly ridge, no crampons needed for us, but we took them, icey in places, bogs not frozen..
 Andy Mountains 27 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Has anyone ever mentioned that you may be slightly insane???
 Banned User 77 27 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: A few.. Had XC today in Wrexham, leaving Snowdonia on one of the most beautiful days of the year to run 4 laps of some football pitches wasn't easy so thought I'd get out.

Must have been lots out today never had to use a map, just could follow the footprints. Hardest part was getting up to Glyder Fach summit, a few belly flops over rocks needed...

As we were heading off someone was heading up Tryfan and saw a few other head torches out.
 Andy Mountains 27 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Fantastic stuff! Getting into the mountains at night is a great experience, it makes even the easiest summits feel like great adventures.
I can't get back into Snowdonia again until tuesday & thursday, and can't wait!
 Banned User 77 27 Nov 2010
In reply to trek: At the top of the scree climbing out from Llyn Y Cwn the snow was deep enough and solid enough to take an axe, similarly dropping down that hideous gully next to Bristly ridge. Thought a few of the higher gullies may have been in nick.
OP Mike Peacock 27 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to trek) A few.. Had XC today in Wrexham, leaving Snowdonia on one of the most beautiful days of the year to run 4 laps of some football pitches wasn't easy so thought I'd get out.
>

Ah! A few of my mates ran that. I believe they were the Bangor idiots wearing vests with nothing on top!
 Banned User 77 27 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Good turn out from the Uni, yeah a few just wore vests, I was T-shirt + vests, plus gloves, plus calf socks...I'm going soft in my old age...
 stevez 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Minus 10 in Capel overnight!!
OP Mike Peacock 28 Nov 2010
In reply to stevez: Yeah, I just heard from a friend driving through it was -9 this morning. I'm heading out in an hour but possibly just for a walk.
 Tim Sparrow 28 Nov 2010
In reply to stevez: -16 in Rhayader!
 davegs 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Been up Idwal stream today, lots of good ice
 Andy Mountains 28 Nov 2010
In reply to davegs:

Great stuff! Any photos? Were the larger lower ice falls formed?
OP Mike Peacock 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I was out again today but just walking on Pen yr Helgi Du. A few photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/sets/72157625486181318/with/521521...

There were lots of icicles forming on shady slopes. On the way up Y Braich we took a look at the snowpack. In places there is a thick layer of windslab on a layer of graupel. If the same conditions are present on steeper, more extensive slopes it could be quite avalanche prone.
 Andy Mountains 28 Nov 2010
More reports on my blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

Keep them coming.
 mux 28 Nov 2010
In reply to all:

out in ogwen today. In my Eyes it still needs a wee bit of time yet.

Clogwyn Ddu was visibly black from the lake so we didnt bother.

Headed over to Clogwyn y Geif and did a turf route. This was ok, turf fully frozen and alot of fluffy white stuff to did about in.

Cracking day but I would give it a bit before we start getting too excited.

off to look at the forecast now!!

 rockcatch 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Myself and Steve went over Y Garn and Elidir Fawr from Nant Peris today. The snow is quite soft in most places making going hard work, although there are some icy patches. In places the top crust was starting to form.

Visibility was excellent, and we were out late enough to see the sunset. Photos are at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/
 davegs 28 Nov 2010
In reply to trek:

Here you go, poor picture I'm afraid

http://bit.ly/eMG91L
 Banned User 77 28 Nov 2010
In reply to rockcatch: I was running a nav course out on Crimpiau, finished at dusk, temperature seemed to plummet. Not that cold during the day, bogs not frozen, little ice at the levels we were operating. Stunning day out though.
In reply to Mike Peacock: Stunning weekend. I was on Siabod yesterday and the Carneddau today where it was really warm in the sun.

Gully-wise I would say that nothing is condition yet and looking down into Broad Gully it needs a lot more snow too.

Still, all who were out this weekend will testify that some great walking and scrambling was had in wonderful weather

 Misha 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Idwal Stream definitely climbable, even possible to place the odd screw in places. A fair few teams did it today. A great way to start off the winter season, can't believe it's only November! The only other ice route in Idwal that might have been doable today was The Ramp - we didn't look at it closely but from the descent path it looked thin but possibly viable. Most of the routes have started building up and the Screen in particular is coming along quite nicely. I was surprised how much of the Appendix had formed, with beautiful chandelieres towards the top (still large chunks missing though). Given the cold temperatures forecast, I should think a few of the Idwal ice routes will be in by next weekend.

On Saturday we enjoyed a scramble up the N Ridge of Crib y Ddysgl and then down Crib Goch into Cwm Glas. Snowed up rock and turf, axes and crampons not really necessary apart from a couple of short sections on the way up where we go the axes out. The weather improved as the day went on but it stayed very windy. Today there was a perfect blue sky with hardly any wind, couldn't have wished for anything better.
 Mr Fuller 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Nicholas Livesey: Absolutely. I was also up on Siabod yesterday too and had an incredible time. Half of the Snowdon Horseshoe was unbelievable today.

Snowdon's Trinity Face and much of Lliwedd is plastered in snow but it's all pretty cruddy. There's a fair bit of ice forming in the horseshoe itself, but it's all dinnerplating and bubbly. Not sure if that's representative or not of the wider region, though.
 Banned User 77 28 Nov 2010
In reply to Mr Fuller: This was yesterday and last night on the Glyders

http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/
 Simon Caldwell 29 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> I was running a nav course out on Crimpiau

I guess it must have been your group arriving at the summit just as we were leaving
 Rich Kay 29 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Went up Cneifion Arete yesterday,beautiful evening.
In the current conditions 1 classic axe and boots should get people up the 1st pitches (past chimney) much quicker than the preferred two technical axes and crampons which seemed to slow down a lot of parties.
bigstu31s 29 Nov 2010
Generally speaking, what is the easiest route up Snowdon when there is snow on the ground? This is from someone who has no winter mountain skills but will have ice axe, crampons etc
Mr Eddie 29 Nov 2010
In reply to bigstu31s: walk up the traintrack (check it ain't running first though)
 Mr Fuller 29 Nov 2010
In reply to bigstu31s: Pyg track is a piece of p!ss if you've got crampons. Without them it's pretty slippery at the moment.
 David Hooper 29 Nov 2010
In reply to Mr Eddie:
> (In reply to bigstu31s) walk up the traintrack (check it ain't running first though)

NO NO NO !!!

The conves slope below the train track is Snowdons biggest accident blackspot.

Probably easiest and quickest way up and down is vis Pyg Track from Pen Y Pass taking care at the "Zig Zags" section below the Fingerstone.

Dont attempt any route without axers and cramps just now.
 imkevinmc 29 Nov 2010
In reply to Mr Fuller: Came down it about noon on Saturday and it was turning into a bit of a rink. I dread to think what is what like by the end of the day. But what a beautiful day !!
 SimonCRMC 29 Nov 2010
In reply to bigstu31s:
> what is the easiest route up Snowdon when there is snow on the ground? This is from someone who has no winter mountain skills but will have ice axe, crampons etc

Absolutely not meant to be a rude question, but does "no winter mountain skills" mean not having practiced with the axe and crampons? People have slipped from the top of the Pyg despite being easy ground, so they might get used!

 Andy Mountains 29 Nov 2010
Yes it is true, there is ice to be climbed & it is still November! Today I was on my own & headed up to Idwal as I had heard there was a good bit of ice in Idwal Stream (II/III). And there was most certainly was! Not as fat yet as it was when I climbed it last winter in December & February, but plenty to climb. As usual it provided great sport & I had a thoroughly enjoyable day. Apart from spraining my ankle on the Devil's Kitchen descent path, which means I have had to cancel meeting up with my good friend Sean Mercer tomorrow (sorry Sean!) for some winter routes in Cwm Cneifion. I should be back climbing a route or two on Thursday with Davey C, so will have to wait until then.
There were 2 teams climbing White Hope on the Idwal Slabs today, and I saw 2 climbers starting out on South Gully at around 2.45pm which I was suprised at as it is only half formed. No other ice routes in Idwal are fully formed yet, but there is a good build up of ice on them all, so by the weekend I'm sure most will be getting ascents.

Pics on my blog: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

 cmsg 29 Nov 2010
In reply to bigstu31s:

Have to agree with much of the above. The number of accidents in recent hard winters - especially near the train track - has been horrific. People are so accustomed to British summer mountain walking being safe and non-technical. There's no such thing in snow and ice. I could never advise going up there in the present conditions without axe and pons.

That said, of course, if you go up there, you'll see plenty of people without such gear, and most of them won't be killed. But without traction, you basically aren't in control, and that'd be enough to dissuade me.
 Banned User 77 29 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
> .
> There were 2 teams climbing White Hope on the Idwal Slabs today, and I saw 2 climbers starting out on South Gully at around 2.45pm which I was suprised at as it is only half formed.

I think that was my wife....said it was OK in the ice, snow was poor...currently still at work so not chatted to her..
 Andy Mountains 30 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Ah right. Good to know the ice was OK. I fancy South Gully myself when its a bit fatter.

Ouch, ankle swollen & sore this morning.

 Rory Shaw 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): My good lady Jen did the Snowdon Horseshoe at the weekend (I'm out in El Chorro still). I've put some of her photos on my blog - can't beleive the conditions for November - wild!!
http://www.snowdoniamountaineering.blogspot.com
 Banned User 77 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Maybe it was central gully, I thought she said south gully last night...pics...http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/
 skippyridgway 30 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: yep - that was us. Some pics on the blog - http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/
 skippyridgway 30 Nov 2010
In reply to IainRUK: woops sorry - yeah - was south gully...
 Andy Mountains 30 Nov 2010
In reply to skippyridgway:

Nice one! More ice in it than I thought!!
 skippyridgway 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): sorry about your ankle - nearly came a cropper walking down also - I was loving the climb tho - its awesome! but I was more akin to bambi on ice walking off in plastics and heavy pack - missed my running kit - it was so much easier running off the glyders on sat night!!!!
 Andy Mountains 30 Nov 2010
In reply to skippyridgway:

I havent done South Gully. I think we will give it a go on thursday. What are the belay ledges like?
 skippyridgway 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): in my inexpert opinion (this is only my second ever ice climb...) belay ledges pretty good - plenty of space to step away from ice fall if belaying from below leader. Best to have a 60m rope. Belay stance on top of 2nd pitch to protect seconder ascending ok but wouldnt really want to have them bouncing off. We didnt bother roping up for the last pitch.
 climber_medic 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Hi Andy. I managed to haul my arse out of my car at 07:00 to have a look at what was in condition. As you quite rightly pointed out Idwal Stream was in okay nick, particularly the lastish pitch which was pretty fat. I saw a couple of guys leave before me and wondered where they went because on inspection nothing really looked in although i'm quite surprised South Gully 1V is forming nicely. I think it needs a bit more before I do it still looks a bit thin for me.

Definately needed my crampons on the way down and wore them as far as the carpark for added safety.

Sean
 Andy Mountains 30 Nov 2010
In reply to climber_medic:

Good stuff Sean, and sorry again for letting you down, but there was no way I could have even got my ankle into my boots today. It is now a lovely shade of purple & dark blue.
Re South Gully: I have 4 new ice screws & 4 old USSR stamped screws (which I would not like to fall on). Would we get away with just using 4 screws on South Gully? Can both the belays be set up using rock pro in these thin conditions?
Perhaps skippyridgway could answer this also, as she climbed it in its current conditions yesterday.
 climber_medic 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Hi mate. When I did South Gully with my friend Dave who you met the conditions couldn't have been better. At the top of the first pitch there was an in-situ belay consisting of pegs and some tat that was new and pretty solid. Also. At the beginning of the long second pitch there was another similar belay in the right hand corner-looking in on the right-at the beginning of the icefall. I would say you will have enough screws and I would use the USSR ones for the belays backed up with passive pro if possible. If the belays previously mentioned aren't there ot are unusable I would definately go for passive protection over anything else.
 The Bad Cough 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): After the first pitch there is a peg belay over on the right hand side and if IIRC the second belay i used a hex and a wire. Maybe even get a sling on something. 4 screws should be ok.

Have fun.
 skippyridgway 30 Nov 2010
In reply to The Bad Cough: 2nd belay we used 2 wires - on climb Calum used one ice screw on each pitch, there were a few wire placements as well as some icicle threads to use. Seem to remember massive big boulder at top of last pitch to chuck a sling around (we walked off the final pitch) - have fun!
 ruaidh 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

When I did south gully last year I used seven screws on P2 and a massive ice thread at the top.
 climbwales 30 Nov 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Anyone have any idea what Bannana Gully on y-garn is like at the momment?

Cheers,
Chester.
 rbyrne84 30 Nov 2010
In reply: I'm heading up to Snowdonia on Monday for a week and was wondering what the snow conditions are like on both the Carneddau and Glyderau, has the snow consolidated yet in to that lovely Neve that makes everything a touch more enjoyable? Thanks
 climber_medic 30 Nov 2010
In reply to climbwales: Hi mate. The clag was down a fair bit on Y Garn today but like alot of the areas it needs a good freeze/thaw to get some consolidation so I doubt Banana gully will be up to much.
 Gooders 30 Nov 2010
In reply to rbyrne84: Three of us went up Broad Gully in Cwm Lloer today. The snow is far from being consolodated - it's pure powder - but the turf is good and frozen and the ice start looked just about there. Might be worth a look this time next week. Was certainly a good outing today anyway.
 climbwales 30 Nov 2010
In reply to climber_medic: Cheers for that! Think i'll leave it and bag something a like Gribin or seniors ridge, should be some decent mixed conditions on the ridges.

Chester
MarketBoy 30 Nov 2010
Sorry it's taken a few days - been busy @ work since my return, but here's some pics from our sourjon over Crib Goch etc over the weekend. Stunning day - absolutely beautiful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56487490@N05/5221112391/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56487490@N05/5221121613/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56487490@N05/5221132741/

... M
 WILLS 30 Nov 2010
In reply to MarketBoy: was in idwal today testing the knee out 5 weeks on from my op. Walked around the cwm and had a look and spoke to a few people. Idwal stream is in condition takes a few screws but not yet fat.
The ramp and the screen saw ascents and the guys said it was taking "some" screws but could be fatter, the same guys wanted south gully but thought better of it today still forming. Central gully and chicane still need some time. Snow on the walk was powdery and it was bitterly cold when we left at 5pm. Hope this is of some help.
 mr mills 30 Nov 2010
In reply to WILLS:

Cheers for that WILLS hope to get over there tomorrow after work, headtorch job, hoping to get the Ramp and Screen done !
AlunP 01 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Bristly Ridge yesterday (Tue): lots of ice on path to Cwm Idwal and up to Bwlch Tryfan - but snow is unconsolidated higher up. Just as well there is not a huge quantity of snow around at the moment as the wind has produced unstable windslab. It was a case of find the hold buried under the powder. About -5 at the top of the ridge and a stiff breeze. Just the odd spot of verglas about to add interest

Just a couple of parties about, and we had the ridge to ourselves.

Top tip: Don't leave your ice axes in the house. It saves having to borrow one.

AlunP 01 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales:

Unconsolidated powder in all probability (see my posting). Ridge lines a better bet until we get some freeze thaw going (or the warm welsh rain washes the playground away).
 EamonH 01 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales: Hi - trudged up Banana Gully yesterday. Just a fine covering of very powdery snow.
 gavinj 01 Dec 2010
Idwal stream was very good yesterday(lots of quality ice and steepish little grooves), did high pasture afterwards in heavy spindrift, which is long, and good in the second half. A rope would be a waste of time.
 AB1965 01 Dec 2010
In reply to mr mills: Hope you enjoyed Idwal in the dark. we did the Idwal stream, Central Gulley and The Screen today. all very good, Central a little thin, Screen steep but good ice and good screws.
South had a lot of traffic today too. several other routes to be done but add 1 to the grade in the book would be about right for today.
 heist182 02 Dec 2010
In reply to AB1965: What are people recommending for the weekend? Grade II-IV.

Any signs of the snow consolidating higher up?
Gussio 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Gave Central Trinity a try yesterday. Lots of unconsolidated powder and no ice. Quite unpleasant and we backed off 20m from the top of the gully. Be back in the new year.... Beautiful day, mind.
 Banned User 77 02 Dec 2010
In reply to heist182: Quite heavily scoured in places so quite a lot of snows gone somewhere so I'd be wary of gullies. Snows still quite powdery.

Not been above freezing now all week so ice routes should be getting there. To get the gullies in I think we'll need a few thaw freeze cycles. Pack it all down a bit.
 Andy Mountains 02 Dec 2010
My ankle has proved more problematic than expected, so no reports from me personally at present unfortunately.

Any of your conditions reports & photos for the blog still greatly appreciated though. http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

 Dave Williams 02 Dec 2010
In reply to AB1965:

We also did Idwal Stream yesterday (amongst the masses). Taken direct it was satisfyingly steep and the ice was nice and plastic. The ice was thick enough in places to take 17mm screws, otherwise 10mm and 13mm screws went in a treat. Had a look at South Gully too but decided that the first pitch needed more ice. It looked like an unprotected solo from beneath but you may have been able to find a stubby screw placement. It's obviously climbable as several parties did it yesterday, but another week or so will do it the world of good IMO.

There's even quite a bit of windslab on the lower slopes of Idwal.

Dave
 AdrianFagg 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Dave Williams:
10mm ice screws? Are these special ones for verglas?
 dsh 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Has anybody been up to Cwm Cneifion recently? What's the conditions like for tower slabs/gully and hidden gully? Are they in and are avalanches likely?
 FrJ 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Heading up this weekend: any guesses as to whether the roads (A5) will snow & ice up or remain passable? Met Office have posted Advisory.
 Dave Williams 02 Dec 2010
In reply to AdrianFagg:
> (In reply to Dave Williams)
> 10mm ice screws? Are these special ones for verglas?
>

Ha ha. Nice one!
:¬))

Dave
 iksander 02 Dec 2010
In reply to FrJ: Looks like freezing rain a possibility Saturday morning below 550m... could be fun :/
 LakesWinter 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Dave Williams: Yeah, the kitchen routes sound like they are shaping up well, exciting!
OP Mike Peacock 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I've been out today, but just walking. Snow is deep in places, and there is some windslab even at low levels. However, the high crags are riming up nicely by the looks of it. So, some photos from the valleys:

Tryfan East Face
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5227291290/sizes/l/

Maria forming (Gallt yr Ogof)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5227290770/sizes/l/

Glyder Fach Main Cliff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5226694687/sizes/l/

Idwal Ice
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5226693911/sizes/l/

Cwm Cneifion and Clogwyn Du
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5226694341/sizes/l/
 davegs 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Excellent picture Mike.
 climbwales 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Best bets for something I/II this weekend, probably saturday, i'll be with a fairly unexperienced partner in winter conditions, so looking for something nice but safe. Been looking at the obvious gullys, which i think and from previous posts seem out...got the obvious gribin ridge,seniors ridge, bristly ridge, N ridge of tryfan ect.

Id there any other routes of Grade I preferably II is OK, are there any gullys in anywhere that i've missed? If not i'll head onto one of the ridges

(Having done one of them three times this week, i'm trying to look for alternatives) Lol

Cheers guys.
 steveej 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales: haver you done any winter climbing before? grade I is a steep walk. Looking at your pfrofile you should go and do something like idwal stream, but just do all the leading.
 Dr.S at work 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales:
crib lem?
 climbwales 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Dr.S at work: That looks nice, is it Grade I with bits you can make grade II if desired? or more Grade II.

Like i said, i'd be with some fairly inexperienced, that gets a bit un-nerved. So grade I would be better.

Vhester
 carld 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales: Parsley Fern Gully is interesting at the moment, lots of ice smears from middle to the bottom, hard old snow which was stepped on Monday for the last 30 metres before topping out. Yes its hard work inbetween the ice, powder on scree, gets I/II. Also Seargeants gully in the lower Cwm Glas (approach to Parsley Fern), up to II and you can skirt round the hard bits if need be. Pictures on Rob Johnson web site.
 Dr.S at work 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales:
I suspect the most serious bit is the approach - once on the ridge should be ok but need to traverse some fairly steep ground to get there and depending on your way in and the weather could need reasonable Nav.
 Mr. Lee 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Anybody know how Pillar Chimney is looking? Tech 5 or tech 6 at the mo? How's the ice build-up on the crux pitch?

Also, can anybody confirm how much ice is forming in Left Hand gully. It was nails when I tried it in Jan when there was no ice formation and I had to cut across to Right Hand half way up. Would consider another go if looking in.

Cheers
 davegs 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) Best bets for something I/II this weekend, probably saturday, i'll be with a fairly unexperienced partner in winter conditions, so looking for something nice but safe. Been looking at the obvious gullys, which i think and from previous posts seem out...got the obvious gribin ridge,seniors ridge, bristly ridge, N ridge of tryfan ect.
>
> Id there any other routes of Grade I preferably II is OK, are there any gullys in anywhere that i've missed? If not i'll head onto one of the ridges
>
> (Having done one of them three times this week, i'm trying to look for alternatives) Lol
>
> Cheers guys.

I was out last Sunday with an experienced partner and we went up Idwal Stream II/III my first winter outing, really enjoyed it and was encouraged by my partner. Probably in better nick this weekend than last, worth considering.

Dave

 Andy Mountains 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mr. Lee:

Pillar Chimney was climbed today: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=144607
Try emailing those concerned
 Rich Kay 02 Dec 2010
In reply to climbwales:

CD Buttress on Y Garn is a good adventure,loads of lines to choose from,difficulties can be flanked.Should'nt be as crowded as other routes.
Will be good if everything's really frozen and the gullies are'nt in.
Take some Warthogs...
 climbwales 02 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Cheers for the replies, great info!

Also thanks Mike-great, very useful thread.

Chester
 Neil Anderson 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: great pictures thanks,

 Rich Kay 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Templeton Adams:

The route description for CD Buttress contains an error and should read:

Climb the buttress to the right of C Gully taking obstacles direct or avoiding by easier lines further right. (not left!)
 Mr Powly 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Mr. Lee:

Did Pillar Chimney last weekend, there wasn't much useful ice and we climbed it right inside the chimney. I don't know how much it will have built up since then though.
T
 Andy Mountains 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Has anyone had a look at Tower Slabs in Cwm Cneifion recently?
 sam benson 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:



Been out in Cryn Las today and did Sargeants Gully ( a friend did it yesterday and said it was good)

Just about freezing with water evident and running under the ice, mushy in the flat area below the route, lovely plastic ice, it was 3c in the Pass as I left at 2pm.

Lots of powdery snow /fluff blowing about but no depth / substance to it.

 Rob Johnson 03 Dec 2010
Today I headed into Cwm Idwal to see how the ice was forming and went and climbed South Route (IV 4/5). I had not climbed the route before and my partner Jim had never been ice climbing before which made it all the more enjoyable for both of us. The atmosphere improved still further as we realised the team ahead of us were friends of mine from Sheffield which made the day very sociable. We climbed the route in 3 long pitches. The first pitch was thin at the top on the easy ground but the main ice was fun and short ice screws could be used to protect it. The main crux second pitch gives some superb climbing with the ice thick enough for screws and squidgy enough to give some satisfying placements. The top pitch of easy ground gave us some lovely views across the wintery landscape of the Park. I have included photos of this route and of the other routes that were being climbed in the Cwm for those keen to get out and enjoy the conditions here: http://www.expeditionguide.com/blog.htm
 Dave Williams 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Rob Johnson:

From your photos there's much, much more ice on the first pitch of South Gully when you climbed it today than there was 2 days ago. It's clearly thickening up nicely.

Dave
 Rob Johnson 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Dave Williams: It does seem to be getting better every day - will no doubt see some traffic this weekend though. The slight thaw that they are forecasting for the weekend followed by the forecast freeze again on Tuesday should give some consolidation to the snow pack and perhaps help with the ice formation too - ideal!
 Andy Mountains 03 Dec 2010

I have just made a last minute decision to head out early tomorrow morning. Quite happy to solo something easy but if anyone fancies hooking up for some Idwal ice let me know. Could meet at Idwal at 6-6.30am.

Andy
 carld 03 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Hi Andy, just left a message on your phone, give me a bell about tomorrow when you get chance, cheers,carl.
 dgp 03 Dec 2010
In reply to sam benson: Your comments were also spot on for the ice smears and gullies on the S side of the pass. Good in the morning but rising temps with water starting to run behind the ice by lunch - we gave up at 2
 Jimbob11 04 Dec 2010
Myself and a friend had a pop at Devils Curtain today, little sketchy in places and ended up finishing off route on some turf and mixed, then walked over to nose in the gully where i decided to fall and kick myself in the calf with my sharpened crampons so all the blood at the base of the gully is my fault sorry, hope it didnt detract anyone, to the two lads who offered assistance and provided some banter, i thank you. Managed to walk off and now at home with some paracetamol, stella and a bruised ego.

Still what a lovely wintery day and story/scar..

Jmim..
OP Mike Peacock 04 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Another cracking day out today. There's a minor thaw underway with a lot of snow melted from the valleys.

I headed out from Ogwen with a couple of friends. We climbed the Nant Bochlwyd which makes a fantastic easy ice route; very enjoyable. After that we went up the False Gribin. Looks like we were the first people that way for a while. The ridge was very enjoyable, but deep snow made the going hard in places. From the Football Pitch we descended back down as we were running out of time.

There was a pair of climbers on Central Gully (Glyder Fach) but I couldn't see anyone else on the Main Cliff. Plenty of snow fell throughout the day.

Nant Bochlwyd:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5232098888/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5231506583/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5231507553/sizes/l/

False Gribin:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5231507229/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5231507361/sizes/l/
 jim jones 04 Dec 2010
> Myself and a friend had a pop at Devils Curtain today, little sketchy in places and ended up finishing off route on some turf and mixed,

In reply to Jimbob11
Did you actually get up The Curtain? It looked lethal yesterday, I looked at it at about 3:00 (Fri) it didn't even look safe to blow on!
 dominic o 04 Dec 2010
In reply to Rob Johnson:

We were the team climbing just behind you - thoroughly enjoyable route.

I have a few pictures of you which I'll forward if you drop me an email.

Dom

PS I don't supose you (or anyone else) found an ide axe leash and crab on the walk in or in the vicinity of Idwal Stream or South Gulley. I'm now half leashless...
 Mr p 04 Dec 2010
Hi all me and my friend climbed "the screen" on fri was really good my first ever ice lead was a little britle on the second pitch I gave a few f's and s**t's but was really fun, today we went up to clogwyn du there was some guys on a grade 9/10 which was impressive to watch. We went on right hand direct I think but not to much ice mainly frozen turf but was good. Hope this helps any one of they go out tommorow but it is starting to melt by the looks of it today hope for the big freeze next week.

Phil
 Tommy Harris 05 Dec 2010
In reply to Jimbob11:
Glad you got down safely mate, you left allot blood up there.

Tommy
 Andy Mountains 05 Dec 2010

Sat 4th Dec:
Nant Bochlwyd & False Gribin by Mike Peacock.
South Gully & The Ramp by Carl Davies.
Reports & Pics here: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 Tommy Harris 05 Dec 2010
Climbed the screen friday, was ok, second pitch a little brittle, decided to do idwal stream on the way back down aswell, was good fun,lots of parties on the route, including an old guy that shot past me like ueli steck...
Went up to clogwyn du saturday, lots of teams out, we headed up left hand branch, Conditions pretty fin with hardly any ice, we flagged off right just below the tatt and finshed on up right hand direct. found the pitch on left hand branch hard to find protection on due to the amount of fresh powder snow, overall a great day, fair play to the guys (Rob) on the main buttress to the left,(Not sure what route) pretty impressive climbing..
123ttam 05 Dec 2010
I too was on Clogwyn Ddu Saturday and did Right hand gully.
Had a good first rout of the year.
Today would probably be better as its got a lot colder.
 Rob Johnson 05 Dec 2010
In reply to dominic o: That would be great cheers. rob@expeditionguide.com

I didn't find any kit sorry - you'll have to go fully leashless!

Thanks again. Rob
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Climbed Idwal Stream yesterday along with about 10 other parties. Busy but sociable day with everyone being sensible about picking slightly diffent lines to ease congestion. The main ice pitches were in good condition and solid gd11. A few holes lettting running water through as the thaw started but it didn't detract and good fun all in all. The valley rain turned to snow higher up and just added to the atmosphere. A good efort by Amy on her first winter route. Thanks to Steve from RAF Valley MR who allowed us through in order that we could complete the route to get back to our clubs Xmas do - we made it Steve!
 gb83 05 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
out in black ladders yesterday. snowed more or less most of the day. we attempted Central Gully. the first pitch was not too bad on reasonable ice despite the warm temps. the snow pitches were very hard going as not consolidated and turf was thawing. the crux pitch is nowhere near in condition but the variation to the left up the arete is not too bad. a long day out but good fun. a good re-freeze will see the snow pitches firm up.
 carld 05 Dec 2010
In reply to gb83: did you notice whether Pyramid Gully had any ice?
Removed User 05 Dec 2010
In reply to gb83: Did Central Gully today. Bloody powder fest on the top half!
 tim000 05 Dec 2010
In reply to Removed User:thinking of heading up y-garn this week via NE ridge . anyone been up or decended that way? whats the snow like , powder or has most of the powder blown away?
doddytom 05 Dec 2010
In reply to tscoobydoo:
> Climbed the screen friday, was ok, second pitch a little brittle, decided to do idwal stream on the way back down aswell, was good fun,lots of parties on the route, including an old guy that shot past me like ueli steck...


Got your message above by mobile, probably from a friend with me at the time, suggesting it may have been me. Nice to still be at it {69 last Oct} Hope you are having as much fun when you get there! We did 'The Ramp' earlier and then on Sat N Ridge Tryfan in great powder.
OP Mike Peacock 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: For anyone who hasn't noticed, the Met Office's mountain forecast has been extended to include a few lines of info on ground conditions and avalanches:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/snowdonia/snowdonia_lat...
 andyd1970 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Maybe heading down there tomorrow with a friend to Solo an easy gulley Grade I or II. Anyone know whats in nick was maybe looking at Banana Gully
Andy
OP Mike Peacock 06 Dec 2010
In reply to andyd1970: Someone else might be better placed to comment but I'd avoid easy gullies. I imagine they'll be extremely hard slogging through very deep powder.
 Andy Mountains 06 Dec 2010
In reply to tim000:
> (In reply to Hardonicus)thinking of heading up y-garn this week via NE ridge . anyone been up or decended that way? whats the snow like , powder or has most of the powder blown away?

Report on NE spur of Y Garn here: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 asmith37 06 Dec 2010
Went up to Aran Fawddwy on Sunday for a look around. Pistyll Gwyn looked promising from a distance but on closer inspection the main slab (which had lots of ice) was detached from the slab with lots of water running. The upper pitches are no where near in. Aran Fawddwy looked good, seemed to be a fair amount of ice in what i think was Christmas retreat but there’s a lot of powder snow up there and wouldn’t fancy the upper slopes at the moment. Opted for a I/II gulley to the right which had a fun icy step inbetween wading through powder.
 andyd1970 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Cheers Mike! rock and rope it is then
Andy
 gb83 06 Dec 2010
In reply to carld: from the base it looked in reasonable nick with a good amount of ice for this early on. there was a team about to climb it as we started up central gully.
Icehanger 06 Dec 2010
In reply to philipb:
Nice one Phil, Drop us an email mate and I'll bung you a few photos.
Me and my mate we're the 2 gearing up at the bottom and dodging that brittle Ice from pitch 2 LOL...yup that was really cruddy and slightly more technical as not quiet formed so a little bit of mixed on that and the final (allegedly) easier 3rd pitch, we went up the ramp after and ended up in a 1.5hr wait for the 2 teams in front to clear. Who was atempting the curtain?? that looked only partially formed and rather unstable LOL.Great day hope to get up there again if the weather holds out
Icehanger 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Icehanger:
Oh for thjose interested I'll get a picture up of the appendix when I get back...it's starting to look rather good be it a little way off being complete.
 Rampikino 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Icehanger:

I notice the weather is forecast to stay cold until around thrs and then warm up. Any other info on that? Could spoil next weekend?
 Rob Johnson 06 Dec 2010
I have been across Crib Goch today. The weather was absolutely stunning and the views incredible. The snow has not consolidated and needs another period of thaw and freeze to give us all something good to play on. The forecast thaw will be great if its not too long and if its followed by a re-freeze, Then it will be magical! Great photos from today on my blog.
 earlsdonwhu 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Sunday ....Did Broad Gully in Cwm Lloer......as you say some deep unconsolidated snow! Made the crux step tricky over the boulder/ cave...mates didn't want me standing on their heads so exited on the right on the rock. Higher up we baled out onto firmer ground on the left.I think breastroke leg kick was most effective..... a shovel would have been more help than axe. Still.....good to be out.

The reason for the slow progress of someone on Hourglass was all too obvious once we started on Broad.
 Tommy Harris 06 Dec 2010
In reply to Icehanger:

Hello mate, can you email me copies of the pictures of us on the screen please, i was the guy taking the full shower of ice whilst belaying phil..lol, hope you enjoyed the route as much as we did, good lead by phil considering this was his first ice lead... you should find my email on my profile

Thanks

Tommy
 carld 06 Dec 2010
In reply to andyd1970: Did introductory gully to the right of Idwal Slabs if you fancy some steady grade 1-2 ice away from the crowds of Idwal stream. Nice descent to the right too, back down into the Cwm. Its a bit thin in places but there was always fatter lines to pick.
Icehanger 06 Dec 2010
In reply to carld:
That was my first taste of N.Wales Ice....lovely route and not too scary lol
 Misha 07 Dec 2010
In reply to Icehanger:
The Appendix had almost touched down by Sat/Sun (didn't seem to be much difference day to day, probably because it wasn't very cold). I suspect someone will grab the first ascent of the season before the thaw kicks in towards the end of the week.

Pretty much all the other ice lines were in over the weekend and can only be getting better right now. Devil's Pipes looked very thin (not that it ever builds up much) but perhaps doable by the brave. The Curtain looked hard and fragile, lots of skill and balls required. First time I've seen the ice pillar on Grecian 2000 complete - sustained and delicate V 4. Devil's Kitchen similar to how it was mid-January - solid IV 4 hookfest. Stingray quite well built up at the top, IV 4. The Sting solid V 5. The nameless line to the right of The Sting apparently isn't entirely in - a team abbed off from below the thin ice runnel in the upper section of the route, saying it was actually unconsolidated snow and unfrozen turf. Most fascinating of all was The Angel's Pipe - the thin ice smear to the right of Chicane, terminating at a large bulge. It looked like it might be thick enough for someone to give it a go...

I wonder what might still be doable over the weekend if a temporary thaw sets in as forecast. Something in Cneifion or on the Ladders? Oh well, at the end of the day it will still be only mid-December and a thaw is needed to improve conditions for the longer term, so long as things refreeze.
In reply to Misha: At the moment it's looking like a thaw for the weekend which while ultimately a good thing it will bugger up my plans!

As you say, it's early days and a bit of patience is needed
 Jim Hamilton 07 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:

i would have said the kitchen would have warranted a 5 in there somewhere (tech or overall) - another step up from say the screen.
 ruaidh 07 Dec 2010
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

I was surprised Misha gave the kitchen IV/4. Did it last year when it was thicker and not as steep (or wet) and would say it was tech 5 back then. Also, looked very unstable at the bottom.
 CLetham 07 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Walked past some guys that backed off the Kitchen today as it was starting to thaw out, plenty still nicely frozen though!
 andyd1970 07 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Been out today on Tryfan snow still powdery but fun. Took a Rope and Rack but didn't use it in the end as we ended up soloing. Had quite an amusing day following who ever had previously been before and left rude pictures and swear words in the snow lol
Andy
 philhilo 07 Dec 2010
In reply to jim hamilton: Did the Kitchen with Misha and despite several parties walking away saying it was not in, once you were on it it was steep but so well hooked it needed no swinging of axes at all, so top end IV 4, but not V. The Sting however I would have given VI 6 with its very overhung middle section. Chicane in at IV 4, very awkward move onto an umbrella at the top using powder snow, grass, torques in a poor 3mm crack and prayer!
 JimmAwelon 07 Dec 2010
In reply to philhilo: Kitchen not V 5 but how about IV 5?
 jim jones 07 Dec 2010
In reply to JimmAwelon:
> (In reply to philhilo) Kitchen not V 5 but how about IV 5?

Which from memory is actually the correct grade as per the guide (IV 5/6!), I once did it in less than perfect conditions and thought the tech 6 was warranted! I think IV 4/5 is about right though usually.

 Banned User 77 08 Dec 2010
In reply to jim jones: Running across the Eilio ridge last night we saw someone had climbed one of the gullies on Foel Gron. Looked a nice grade 1 snow plod, low down but seemed to be holding plenty of snow. Nice option for low grade routes.
 Rampikino 08 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

If we are starting to get some warmer temperatures then the weekend might well be for the gullies, no?
 Banned User 77 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Rampikino: Lower down, below 300-400 m has gone through a few freeze thaw cycles so that snow, whilst thin is solid, higher up its still quite powdery because its just not thawed. It could well be that the lower altitude easier gullies will be in more climbable condition than up high.
 Banned User 77 08 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Last night we put our crampons on quite low down on the way off, we were fine until the steep nose, when we decided to put them on just to see what kahtoolas were like with trainers, felt very secure.
 Rampikino 08 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

All a bit hit-and-miss for saturday then?
 Rob Johnson 08 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: I have seen the same thing this week on Tryfan today and Crib Goch Monday. The ice routes have also not formed up high but in Cwm Idwal are ace as the previous posters mention. Lets hope this weekends thaw reaches the tops and then refreezes before its all stripped out!
Fieldus 08 Dec 2010
Do people think Idwal stream will still be in on Friday? - I'm thinking of a cheeky solo.

Also, how escapable is it in case I get wet!?

Many thanks
 rbyrne84 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Rob Johnson: I am looking at doing Tryfan tomorrow (Thursday) what were conditions like along the N.Ridge? Am I better sticking to the East Face eg Nor Nor Buttress? Any suggestions? Thanks
 wilkie14c 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Fieldus:
Don't know about conditions but its easy to escape, simply a matter of a traverse move or two to the side of the stream and although steep hillside, pretty safe ground. Have fun.
OP Mike Peacock 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I've been out today and climbed the Afon Las (I/II) in Cwm Glas Mawr. It's over to the left from Sergents and is quite pleasant. Lots of ice covered in snow. There were lots of people on Craig y Rhaeadr and Sergent's Gully, and some on Parsley Fern. Low down the snow was good as it's been subjected to freeze thaw, but high up it's still powdery, so I can't imagine gullies were too fun today.

Craig y Rhaeadr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244071869/sizes/l/

Afon Las
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244072087/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244072325/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244073095/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244672030/sizes/l/

Lone climber under Clogwyn y Person
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5244072857/sizes/l/
 tobykeep 08 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

That was me on Foel Gron. The route is great, a really narrow enclosed gully, but to be honest it's not in great nick. It could do with the fabled freeze/thaw and some more snow. Recommended as a route though and not much likelihood of seeing anyone until you top out.
OP Mike Peacock 08 Dec 2010
In reply to tobykeep: Which gully did you do? I've eyed up a few before. There's one that goes up to meet the 629m summit by the Cwm Cesig ridge, and an easier looking one that goes towards the 593m summit. Plus, there are some likely looking ones on Moel Cynghorion.
 Simon4 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Fieldus:
> Do people think Idwal stream will still be in on Friday? - I'm thinking of a cheeky solo.

Yes, I would have thought so, unless the thaw is monstrous, which will be obvious from the car-park. Not that you would want to start if it was mild.

> Also, how escapable is it in case I get wet!?

Very escapable, but it would be just silly to start the first pitch if it wasn't reasonable. Doesn't change much from the start to the end, so if the start isn't good, don't bother.


 Banned User 77 08 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I think it was the one to the higher summit, it was 20 yards before the fence..walking to Eilio..some pics of the top out on the blog.

http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/

Did Nantlle Ridge at dusk, needed crampons on the ridge really on some of the scrambly sections, awful coming off, inch of wind slab then powder, a real shin scraper...
 tobykeep 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Like Iain says, the one to the higher summit. It's most obvious from above when you do the Moel Eilio circuit, a really obvious steep gully about 20 metres before the fence line which runs up the ridge. Its pretty steep for Grade 1 and really narrow, you can touch both side with your arms spread in some places. If you walked into the little cwm with the steepest crags on that bit if mountain it is on the far right hand side. I think it's mentioned in Welsh Winter Climbs, but I can't find mine at the moment.
 caradoc 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Simon4: I was on Tower slabs yesterday, brittle ice and deep powder in sections. I think it has been too cold and dry to produce the best conditions, I was even surprised there wasn't more ice on the kitchen lines after two weeks of sub zero temperatures.
 gavinj 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Hi Mike, that was me on the ice under Clogwyn y Person - I think you were down at the tree on the lake? I saw you on the walk-in, and I said there wouldnt be much deep snow. Well, wading between the ice pitches going up to Crib y Dysgl made me regret those words! Knee deep powder with no base ocer loose scree. Nice. The ice line on the shot is very good - another 3 good pitches finishing right on the ridge. If the snow consolidates for neve between them it would be a really good face line.
OP Mike Peacock 09 Dec 2010
In reply to gavinj: Yeah, that was us. I presume that isn't a described route you were on, just following what looked fun?
 uncontrollable 09 Dec 2010


Anyone willing to hazard a guess on the outlook for this weekend?
Is there still some ice to be found or is it all melting?
Will it be worth friving up from the south...

Thanks!
 Banned User 77 09 Dec 2010
In reply to uncontrollable: Last night on Nantlle.

http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/2010/12/winter-ridge-evening-running.ht...

I don't think the temps will rise that much to majorly affect things. May just stabilise things with a few days of freeze thaw before another cold spell next week.
 Rob Johnson 09 Dec 2010
I have had a day off today and so have been climbing with my friend Rich. We decided to head into Cwm Idwal and we had good fun climbing The Devils Pasture (III,3) and The Screen (IV,4). On the latter route the ice was better as it was thicker and was nice and squidgy with the rising temperatures we are experiencing today (it was 8 degrees in the car park when we got back down). Both routes were great fun though and Rich promised not to tell anyone that I dropped my axe as I followed him up the top pitch of The Screen. Sincere apologies to anyone below, I had been extolling the virtues of leashless climbing to Rich all morning and the rope flicked my axe as it was placed in the ice above me - bugger! I was relived that the top pitch was easier as I then had to climb it with just one axe. We also had a nosey into the Devils Kitchen but the final steepening was very thin so we decided to save that one for another day. If the next couple of days stay as today it should be an ideal gentle thaw - fingers crossed! Photos are on the blog here: http://www.expeditionguide.com/blog.htm
 Rampikino 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Rob Johnson:

Hoping for a drop in temperatures tonight and tomorrow night so it doesn't get a bit too "squidgy"


 uncontrollable 09 Dec 2010
In reply to uncontrollable:

anymore details on current conditions in snowdonia?
 Iwan 09 Dec 2010
In reply to uncontrollable:

Currently raining and +5 in Deiniolen.

I had a wee bit of ice seperate from the rock today. Altitude was about 1800 feet in The Nameless Cwm.

http://imageevent.com/imagedude/walessnowandice201011?p=0&n=1&m=24&...

http://imageevent.com/imagedude/walessnowandice201011?p=8&n=1&m=24&...

http://imageevent.com/imagedude/walessnowandice201011?p=13&n=1&m=24...
 Mr Powly 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Altitude was about 1800 feet in The Nameless Cwm

Hopefully it'll come down a bit soon, I don't fancy that kind of walk in
 timjones 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Mr Powly:
You want the Nameless Cwm to come to you to save you walking?
 uncontrollable 09 Dec 2010
In reply to Iwan:

cheers keep the info coming....
 AB1965 09 Dec 2010
Great day in Maesglase Falls, lots of ice but getting much warmer, from -8 to +4 today. Is was plastic but getting wet in place, should last the week end but will need a freeze come sunday night i recon
 Neil Anderson 09 Dec 2010
In reply to rbyrne84: Did the North Ridge Tryfan & Gribbin yesterday (Weds) - in excellent if challenging condition. No consolidation of snow above 300m apart from on south sunny slopes, so powdery snow all the way. Off the paths on the summits ( eg Glyders, ) hard going, and windslab was building on lee slopes in the North wind yesterday. Nameless Cwm surprising lean. Ice from road level, and all Llyn's frozen. Gully routes would have been swims at best.

 wynaptomos 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Neil Anderson:
"Ice from road level, and all Llyn's frozen."

You say that all the Llyn's were frozen but I was amazed to pass Ffynnon Llugwy on wednesday without any ice at all on it. Anyone know what could be the reason for that?

 Banned User 77 10 Dec 2010
In reply to wynaptomos: The others are quite shallow llyns aren't they? Could just be the deeper llyn is holding its temperature.
 Glyn 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

what to people reckon the black ladders will be like on tomorrow? It looking pretty wet and warm where I am (tremadog) this morning! The ice which has been in-situ on my driveway for the past couple of weeks has all gone over night.
 Banned User 77 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Glyn: Looks like it was very aggressive. Couldn't see much snow below 500m mark when I left Nant this morning. Surprised how much has gone. It was quite a warm rain last night though. Should clear later and looks like temps will fall again.
Mr Eddie 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I'm hoping to do crib tomorrow, will it be winter conditions? Of has the thaw trashed it?
 Banned User 77 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mr Eddie: Probably still quite a bit up high. It was only 6 or so degrees in the valleys last night and with the lapse rate it must have only been just above freezing at 3000ft. All in cloud at the moment though. I'd plan on winter conditions.
 Simon Caldwell 10 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> It was only 6 or so degrees in the valleys last night and with the lapse rate it must have only been just above freezing at 3000ft

MWIS is highlighting that there's currently a very small temperature variation with height, yesterday valley temperatures were shown as only a degree or two above summit temperatures. I expect someone with more knowledge can explain how this happens!
 tipsy 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I know winter, but unfortunately don't know north wales winter that well, and have also been working solidly for past two weeks and unable to keep track of conditions. Off to north wales in the morning but don't have time today to trawl around the web for conditions report so was hoping for some quick and easy advice.

Is there likely to be anything in tomorrow around III/IV don't mind if it's ice, ridge, mixed, or gully. Issue is i'm going wiht a group of people only a few of which winter climb, so we don't want to be out tooo long. Smaller the walk in the better. Any tips?

Failing all else I think a slog up crib goch or Tryfan is in order, although I'm expecting them to be powdery.

Thanks in advance!
Mr Eddie 10 Dec 2010
In reply to tipsy: I've been putting off crib for years, cos I want to do it in full winter (never done it at all). Do I shelve it till later?
 tipsy 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mr Eddie: If I head up tomorrow evening I'll let you know!
 Paul Crusher R 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Toreador: Thermal dynamics... its dependant on the moisture content of the air. Higher the moisture/relative humidity of air the ability of it to retain its temp is increased/the rate of temp change decreases. Or in otherwords, it takes a greater amount energy to change its temperature and subsequently loose its energy. Clear as mud.
OP Mike Peacock 10 Dec 2010
In reply to tipsy: It's hard to tell. Conditions a few days ago were fantastic, but the thaw seems to have set in quite firmly. I'm keeping an eye on the webcams but it's rather misty at the moment. The best bet might be to head to the ridges and salvage a scramble if conditions are really rubbish.
 Andy Mountains 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

It is a mega thaw! I have just returned home from Cwm Glas where I was suprised to find Sargeant's Gilly completely melted. My mate just texted to say all ice routes around Idwal are melting out fast.
Will put some more info on blog later.
1philjones1 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Just got back from Cwn Idwal. The thaw has been extensive and we couldn't find a route that was climbable. Passed a group who had done Chicane Gully but they said it was thawing fast. Wouldn't bother for the weekend.
 jamescronin 10 Dec 2010
It had stated thawing last weekend. There was a layer of water running down behind most of the ice I found, but despite the warnings many a group were still leading it with screews - I guess it just helps to finish off the belayer as well as yourself when large lumps of ice that were not realy stuck to anything come flying down with your screws stuck in them!
 conorcussell 10 Dec 2010
In reply to jamescronin: Damn! looks like i better take my rock boots this weekend!
 ezzpbee 10 Dec 2010
In reply to conorcussell:
> (In reply to jamescronin) Damn! looks like i better take my rock boots this weekend!

never mind rockboots, just arrived at Gwern gof Isaf in the Ogwen and wellies be better than rockboots.
 terrarob 10 Dec 2010
In reply to wobl: Amen! Just got back from Wales, soggy mess! If you like slush, amazing! There are one or two patches of ice in a couple of small gullies, but it will take a good few days of snow and sub-zero temperatures to come back in to condition.
 ezzpbee 10 Dec 2010
In reply to robric:
it will take a good few days of snow and sub-zero temperatures to come back in to condition.

leaving on monday so thats probably when it will freeze again !

 Andy Mountains 10 Dec 2010

Today's 'thaw reports' from Idwal & Cwm Glas here: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 Tim Davies 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Paul R: Latent heat. When water turns from vapour to liquid (cloud) heat is released in the process- the lapse rate is then halved to about 1.5 degrees/ 1000ft has something to do with it.

That's why it can be 10 in fort William on a sunny dry day and freezing on the summits with a nice dry easterly airflow.
paul_stjimmy 10 Dec 2010
In reply to robric:
Seconded! It's just bloody wet underfoot here. Devil's Kitchen is still partly frozen so fun can be had with crampons up there. High Carneddau holds a good bit of snow so long as you put up with the boggy mess to get there.
 jimjimjim 10 Dec 2010
In reply to paul_stjimmy: That's it! I've just pulled the plug on my weekend. Oh well, fingers crossed for next week, looks like i'll be eating my climbing snap for the next few days...;(.
 Neil Anderson 10 Dec 2010
In reply to Toreador: in simple terms the drop in temp with attitude is much greater in cold dry air than warm moist air. ( -1 deg c per 100m vs -1 deg c per 200m)

also remember in the very cold blocking high we have had, often the valley is colder than the summit ( as cold air sinks); ie temparture inversion - hence llanberis ice routes can be in nick; yet ice scarcy on the summits.

Finally air cools as it rises normally; and warms as it falls; hence if weather is pushed over a mountain range, a warming effect hits the lee side, known as the fohn effect in the alps
 rockcatch 11 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

The Oggie Cam pointing towards Y Garn is now working again at http://www.ogwen-rescue.org.uk/oggi_cam/index.php . It looks like a lot of the snow has melted. The weather station has been reading between 5 and 6 degrees all day. Hopefully it will get cold again next week.
 Andy Mountains 11 Dec 2010
In reply to rockcatch:

It is forecast to get colder again next week, especially towards the end of next week/weekend.
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): That'll do for me, should bring some easy gullies into condition
 Banned User 77 11 Dec 2010
In reply to Nicholas Livesey: Incredible how aggressive the thaw was. Today did Ogwen > Gribin>Glyder Facch>tryfan > west gully > ogwen

No need for crampons at all, any ice there was very weak and easily knocked off if touched, we had axes out for the run down the gully next to bristly ridge, but weren't really needed.

snow above 700m or so, but very patchy and very slushy.

 Luuuke 12 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: so nothin at all? Not even on trinity?
 ezzpbee 12 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
frost on ground all day in the Ogwen valley at Gwern gof Isaf and gritters just gone up A5, heavy frost on tops covering rocks
 geoff b 12 Dec 2010
In reply to Luuuke;
All is not without hope! The Black Ladders today had some lovely single ice pitches (II-III) below Eastern Gully. Plastic perfection. That route had enough snow & frozen turf on it to make it a worthwhile 1/2 day. Icefall Gully (Lefthand) looked like it might go as well. The turf in the back of the gullies is still rock hard. The frost here (in Llanberis) is already biting hard & the ground (in the shade)is rock hard.
 Darron 12 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Bannana gully was OK today.
Amazing how few prople were around - lovely sunny day too!
 DH 12 Dec 2010
In reply to Darron: Agreed, we were on it today & the snow was in good nick, albeit a bit patchy in the last 50 metres or so..
 Misha 12 Dec 2010
It's amazing just how much snow has been stripped back. What little is left though has generally turned into decent neve. Went across last night just for today and were going to go the Ladders but had a lazy start and decided to instead wander up to Cwm Lloer. Bits of snow start from around the Llyn but there's no real continuous cover. Col Gully to the right of the Headwall looked complete. Moonflower (below Col Gully) looked like a great ice pitch from a distance but was thin, delaminating and running with water (not surprising as it does get the morning sub). Over one the left hand side, Right Hand Y Gully looked complete but Left hand Y Gully had large sections of exposed turf. We did:

Broad Gully Icefall. 10m. V 5. A little to the right of the start of Broad Gully there is a short steep icefall. Might be easier if it builds up well. Good nut and friend belay a few metres back. The top out is dicey unless well frozen as the ice ends abruptly and beyond this there is some boggy ground. Trend up and left on easy ground to join Broad Gully itself.

Probably been done before but doesn't seem to have been recorded, so I've added it to the Wiki and, as you can see, came up with a very imaginative name.

Broad Gully itself wasn't very broad due to lack of snow but at least there was a bit of decent neve pretty much all the way up and an avoidable short ice step about half way up.

Let's hope things improve for next weekend. It's set to get cold, so would have thought the ice routes will get back in nick, as long as they haven't been battered too much by the thaw. From the walk in we could see that the middle section of the Appendix had disappeared. Seemed to be a fair bit left higher up and a bit lower down, though not sure if that was the pillar or the bit just above. In any case, would be surprised if it's in by next weekend.
 Andy Mountains 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:

Sounds like a worthwhile day in the end then. I like the look of your 'Broad Gully Icefall' but maybe when the top out is a bit more frozen.

Has anyone been around Idwal today or yesterday? Heading down with a friend tomorrow (Tuesday), and was just wondering if The Ramp may still be climbable? Would really like to get my mate on a bit of ice, but need quite a short walk in due to my still dodgy ankle (otherwise would have considered Black Ladders)

 Darron 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:
>
> Broad Gully Icefall. 10m. V 5. A little to the right of the start of Broad Gully there is a short steep icefall. Might be easier if it builds up well. Good nut and friend belay a few metres back. The top out is dicey unless well frozen as the ice ends abruptly and beyond this there is some boggy ground. Trend up and left on easy ground to join Broad Gully itself.

Isn't this mentioned in the guide? I did it several years ago and I'm pretty certain it's been done many times before
 Misha 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Darron:
I'm sure it's been done before (though probably not this season yet, couldn't see any signs of a previous ascent), but it's not in the 1988 guide. You might be thinking of Moonflower, which is a very attractive line on the other side of the Cwm - unfortunately it wasn't at all in condition.

I think it makes sense to add bits to the Wiki and the UKC logbooks so as to build up a database and give people an idea of worthwhile routes which aren't necessarily classics - would hopefully help with congestion issues in the popular areas. (When I uploaded it to UKC, I accidentally put it as a three star route, which would need to be changed by the moderator; it might deserve a single star but certainly not two or three, but that was academic on Sunday as we were pleased to find anything at all).

Looks like there will be lots of snow to contend with over the weekend. Can't the weather gods get their act together and avoid extremes...
 timjones 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:
> (In reply to Darron)
> I'm sure it's been done before (though probably not this season yet, couldn't see any signs of a previous ascent), but it's not in the 1988 guide. You might be thinking of Moonflower, which is a very attractive line on the other side of the Cwm - unfortunately it wasn't at all in condition.

Are you sure it's not the line mentioned in the 1988 guide as "a short icefall some 20m to the right may be used as a rather indirect but technically interesting (2/3) start."
 Andy Mountains 13 Dec 2010
In reply to timjones:

I assumed that was what Misha was referring to Tim. However last year when it was formed there is no way it looked grade II/III. Definetly more like IV although one short pitch.
 ox 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:The ice fall is in the guide book i looked at it a few years back and would say grade 3 was right.Its good to get away from the crowds and climb some less known areas last monday a outdoor centre had set up top ropes on the Curtain in Idwal its getting silly over in the Kitchen now.
mrc1508 13 Dec 2010
In reply to ox: hi all, i'm planning on heading to llanberis for this thurs and fri. i'm not interested in ticking climbs etc but would really like to have my first ice experience if conditions allow. I would really appreciate any tips on where to head for some ice fun away from the crowds. i will prob have to solo unless i can get a partner so nothing too brave to start with. many thanks in advance.
 Rich Kay 13 Dec 2010
In reply to mrc1508:

There'll be an easy icy section on Parsley Fern Gully (busy though)...
The smears/falls between Devil's Kitchen and Y Garn provide interesting escapable problems away from the crowds on Introductory Gully/Idwal Stream.
Bryant's Gully is another option, never busy and most problems can be flanked (long route though).
mrc1508 13 Dec 2010
In reply to Templeton Adams: thank you for the help, really appreciated. regards.
 Andy Mountains 13 Dec 2010
In reply to mrc1508:

You would be very lucky to find any ice in Bryant's tho if that is what you are after. Even last winter in Jan there was no ice to be climbed in there. South facing.
 Misha 14 Dec 2010
In reply to timjones:
It's the left hand icefall in this photo http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=134238. There's quite a path where people have been going up, which doesn't look like II/III... nor does the icefall... yet it looks pretty tame to what it was like on Sunday (I've uploaded a photo)... the vagaries of ice! The great thing about ice routes is that you can climb them several times and they will be different every time.
 Banned User 77 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Templeton Adams:
> (In reply to mrc1508)
>
>
> Bryant's Gully is another option, never busy and most problems can be flanked (long route though).

Thought the top was pretty serious and hard to avoid?
 Darron 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha:

I think that is the one mentioned in the guide (and in logbooks on here).
Def the one I climbed.
 The Bad Cough 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Darron: the other ice fall overlooks broad gully and is a column called moonflower. Great fun but just short.
 Simon Caldwell 14 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> Thought the top was pretty serious and hard to avoid?

Easily avoided as long as you decide in time - if you get to the foot of the main falls and decide to go round then the previous section is hard to reverse.

But like someone else said, it's going to need exceptional conditions to get it in winter condition!
 benny_m 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Has anyone been up to trinity face yet, great gully, ladies/laddies gully in particular?

Ben
 StuLade 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Anybody with any idea of something climable tomorrow? Have partners for once but not looking like I've got conditions on my side. Some tips would be greatly appreciated, I'm taking it the higher up the more likely with about 3 degrees at ground level from what I can make on BBCweather.
 Andy Mountains 14 Dec 2010
In reply to StuLade:

I've just got home after climbing the Cneifion Arete. Will post findings on blog later. Need to eat first!
 StuLade 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Cheers fellah.
 bms 14 Dec 2010
In reply to benny_m:

Just got back from a dog walk from Llanberis Pass up onto the Crib y Ddysgl ridge, which had a surprising quantity of hard frozen snow and ice on it. I could see that Parsley Fern and it's Left Branch looked complete from a distance. Snowdon had disappeared into a moist cloud by the time I got aloft so couldn't see the Trinity Face, but met climbers on the summit who had enjoyed themselves on Snowdrop and Central Trinity.

Cheers,
Ben
 sam benson 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Went out in Ogwen today, looked at Glyder Fach but nothing in. Went up Bristly Ridge and down Gribin ridge. Snow was firm on the tops , frosted rock and patches of firm snow/ice on both ridges. Just about freezing in a northerly breeze on tops , warmer lower down. Bananna Gully looked about the most complete gully line from a distance.
 jim jones 14 Dec 2010
In reply to bms:
> (In reply to benny_m)
>Snowdon had disappeared into a moist cloud by the time I got aloft so couldn't see the Trinity Face, but met climbers on the summit who had enjoyed themselves on Snowdrop and Central Trinity.

I'm pretty surprised given the conditions described that Snowdrop is in condition. It's usually one of the last to come into proper nick on Snowdon.

 Jameskelly200 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Update on conditions for Wednesday 15th, in and around CWM Idwal/South gully, central route, the ramp, would be greatly appreciated looking for anything with ice that is still climbable grade III/IV is possible thanks...James
 Andy Mountains 14 Dec 2010
In reply to hamishjfk:

James. None of the ice around Idwal is in condition at present. I have just got back from there. Will put info on blog in a bit.
Andy
 carld 14 Dec 2010
In reply to StuLade:Had a look at Ladders today, wanted to do Eastern Gully but wasn't complete. Good ice on the first pitch, team on it. Wandered up to Icefall Gully. It was in the clag but could hear a team in the vicinity and a team passed me with intentions of doing Icefall,don't know how they got on. Pyramid had ice in the first two pitches but it didn't look complete. I could see ice in the first pitch of PlaySchool. It was a nice walk if nothing else!Hope this helps.
 Andy Mountains 14 Dec 2010
In reply to carld:

Bit of a long hike with crap vis for not much then Carl? Pity.
Was on the Ladders today. There is a bit of consolidated snow in the gullies and a neat bit of ice at the bottom of eatern Gully. The turf is a little bit frozen and it was starting to rhyme up at the top of the crag.

TBH it isn't really worth the walk or the drive at the moment. Another freeze and a big dump of snow and the Ladders will be back in great nick.

Cheers,

Tom
 carld 14 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Yep...can't win em all, snow on thurs/fri and cold so maybe good again w/e and next week.
 Neil Anderson 15 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): really stripped from this time last wk ! thanks for the update.
 JJL 15 Dec 2010
In reply to all:

Brief update for those looking/thinking of going to N.Wales.

We were up Monday/Tuesday.

Monday did pinnacle Rib Route on Tryfan in big boots, then across Glyders and down to Ogwen before a stomp back along the road. Crampons useful mostly in descent; not needed on the route which was dry but with some verglas on flat surfaces. The Devils Kitchen area was in no state to climb - running with water on top and behind the ice.

Tuesday walked into Craig Yr Usfa from the NE side. Great Gully had some snow patches but was not really in condition at all. We did Ampitheatre Buttress, again in big boots. The slabs are more polished than I remember! All fine until the airy traverse, which was snowy/icy - so crampons on from there to the top. The small path back down to the toe of the buttress needs care at the moment.

There was a distinct front coming in Tues pm. - wind up, mist and colder, with snow forecast fro Thursday, so the weekend may be better for ice routes.

If anyone finds a #7 Rock on tape and crab (red tape mark), it's be great to get reunited.

Cheers

John
 ox 15 Dec 2010
In reply to mrc1508:I think the best place to go for easy ice would be Parsley Fern gully the left hand side being harder,in Cwm Glas theres bits of ice to have a play on if you dont want to go high on the mountain.Not sure its a good idea going to quiet out of the way places on your own if its your first ice climb and watch the weather.
OP Mike Peacock 15 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Not a report from the tops, but I drove down the Ogwen Valley this afternoon. The thaw has certainly been thorough! In Cwm Lloer there was a ribbon of snow marking Col Gully, and two thin but complete snow ribbons on the Headwall. Banana Gully on Y Garn was still there, but it was hard to tell if A and B gullies were complete.
mrc1508 15 Dec 2010
In reply to ox: thanks for the advice, i will have a partner so may take a look and will of course report back. i have tried to find a grid ref for parsley fern but have failed miserably, any chance someone could let me know it as it will allow us to have a much earlier start tomorrow as i was intending on buying a winter guide from v12 whilst there (couldnt buy one lacally), but could then do this in the late afternoon instead. all help much appreciated, regards.
 dgp 15 Dec 2010
In reply to mrc1508: If you're looking for some good ice on friday - you won,t find it on Parsley Fern LH !
 FrankBooth 15 Dec 2010
In reply to mrc1508:
> any chance someone could let me know it
Around 614554 I think
In reply to mrc1508:

Grid ref 614554 is approx the start of Parsley Fern gully in Cwm Glas on NE side of Garnedd Ugain. Park in Llanberis pass close to Ynys Ettws hut, walk up right side of river (as you look at it from road) and cross over river higher up in first cwm you get to = Cwm Glas Mawr. Scramble up left side of obvious waterfall = Sargeants Gully and enter large corrie = Cwm Glas. Parsley Fern is obvious easy angled gully in centre (NB main gully is gd 1 and left branch is gd 11).
In reply to FrankBooth:

Wow! Talk about great minds think alike...ok two maps look the same I guess.
 Andy Mountains 15 Dec 2010

Check out Huw Gilbert's blog re Trinity gullies: http://huwgilbert.blogspot.com/
mrc1508 16 Dec 2010
In reply to Diccon: thank you for your help,curently sitting in llanberis having had a very wet and windy walk up to Tryfan. wind was very strong and decided against doing the north ridge today. temp was 8 degrees at nine this morning and down to 4 derees when we got back at around half three. lots of weather coming in at the moment so if it does cool down as predicted, should se lots of snow over next couple of days.
 Andy Mountains 16 Dec 2010
MWIS forecast for tomorrow says the following: 'Upland gales; sudden blizzards, whiteout Snowdon range. Lightning' Also predicts -7c temps with windchill of -23c.
http://www.mwis.org.uk/sd.php?fdate=101217
Worth taking note of if you are planning anything tomorrow.
 Mike Raine 16 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Gentle snow in Llanberis now
 stevev 16 Dec 2010
snow-forecast is predicting 105km winds on snowdon summit n Sunday afternoon
http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Snowdon/6day/top
 Mike Raine 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Nigh on a foot of snow in Llanberis this morning
 mrchewy 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Raine: oh yes - pain for you lot local but looking good for my hols.
 Duncan Bourne 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Raine:
What's it like up on the Glyders? Heading over on Saturday.
OP Mike Peacock 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Lots of snow in Bangor: possibly the deepest I've ever seen in six years. I imagine this will make progress in the mountains extremely tiring. Any neve in the gullies will be buried under quite a depth of powder!
 GDavies 17 Dec 2010
Lots of wading. Enough snow to ski down my hill in Bethesda today.
Winter blog: http://climbing-kayaking-walking.blogspot.com/
 mmd 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Snowing again here in Llanberis, lots of snow, yep anything that was there, which was not a lot will be well buried.
 George Fisher 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

What are my chances of getting to Llanberis either up the A5 or A55?

 Andy Say 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Gfunk:
A5 to Capel seems doable, there is some traffic getting there - some lorries stuck in Capel trying to get to Bethesda currently though.
A55 to Llanberis just doable this morning @ 10.00 - took me 2 hrs to get from near Llanberis to Capel just now and its still coming down heavy. No ploughing as yet.
OP Mike Peacock 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Say: Apparently a lorry jack-knifed on the A55 this morning. Snow still falling heavily.
 Andy Mountains 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I got down the A55 as far as the A5/Bethesda turn off. Had to turn back there. A55 was really bad. Plenty of abandoned vehicles. Still snowing heavily as I came back towards home. Wasted morning.
 George Fisher 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Andy, did you turn back because you couldn't drive/grip or was the road blocked by other abandoned cars?

I can drive through most things except solid objects.

I so want to climb something but it's not looking good...
 AlistairB 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: In all seriousness, what are the chances of making it down from London tonight? We have snow chains and a massive determination to escape London on our side.
 George Fisher 17 Dec 2010
In reply to AlistairB:

I'm with ya. I would say I'll be in your tracks but I expect they'll be covered over by Sat morning. If you could just shove the cars off the road for me, that'll be great. Thanks
 Mike Raine 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
It would be pretty daft trying to drive to North Wales today, but then climbing in winter could be considered daft by some too! It's still snowing now, looks like more tomorrow, Sunday looks nice though. Probably too much snow for good climbing tomorrow, Sunday however could be much much fun, the choice is yours.
 Banned User 77 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Raine: Supposedly the A55 is clear from Conwy onwards...

I'm stuck in Menai Bridge, about to set off on a 13 mile run home...
 AlistairB 17 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Clear from Conwy in which direction? Any info on the A5? Are we best off going for the A5 (our normal route) or trying to come up the coast on the A55?
Walton32 17 Dec 2010
Does anyone know what the forecast is for the next couple of weeks, I'm planning to head up just after Christmas on about the 28th and was just wondering what the conditions will be, whether to take crampons, ice axe ect
 Simon Caldwell 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Walton32:
The long range forecast from MWIS is predicting a thaw from the west after Christmas. Fingers crossed he changes his mind!
 Banned User 77 17 Dec 2010
In reply to AlistairB: 55 looks clear on traffic wales cameras. Clear from pen to Chester. I think getting from there to Ogwen or Llanberis will be troublesome but getting to the Northern Carneddau should be little issue..
 Andy Mountains 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Gfunk:

I turned back because I had gone as far as my car would let me go due to the level of snow accumulating on the roads. I knew if I had actually managed to even get to say Bethesda (never mind Ogwen), the way the snow was coming down, I wouldn't have been able to come home again.
There is plenty more snow forecast tonight & during tomorrow. I am considering trying again in the morning, but unsure whether to bother. It will be really hard going tomorrow underfoot & can't imagine that anything at all will be climbable. Knee deep wading in fresh snow is no fun at all. (But then again sitting here typing this is pretty fu**in boring too!!!)
Take care all of you whatever you decide. (And let me know what conditions you find!)
Andy
 Ian McNeill 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

snowing as we speak here ... South west snowdonia ...
 Andy Mountains 17 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Yep Queensferry thru to Pen is clear, but shortly after that its like another world!
There are a fair few vehicles 'parked' at jaunty angles in fields along the side of the A55.
 Banned User 77 17 Dec 2010
In reply to FrankBooth: I'm just over teh bridge, tracked down a lift most of the way home. Never seen so much snow in Menai, even the mud flats in the Menai Straits are snow covered..
 FrankBooth 17 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
Sound amazing. I grew up in the centre of Anglesey and to be honest, the island never really got that much snow (something to do with the Gulf Stream I think)
 richprideaux 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

It's bizarre. I'm in Ruthin and we have about half an inch! More up at the farm near Cerrigydrudion, but still quite tame compared to the west!
 geoff b 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Just returned from Cwm Glas; phew! Road out of 'Beris to Caernarfon was impassable at KMC/DMM this morning even by 4x4s! Road up the Pass to the CC hut was only passable by 4x4s or with chains. Above that looked horrendous. It took us 1hr 20min to get below the Upper Cwm! We were waist deep at times & it was desperate going even with ski poles. We turned around. So much snow had fallen as we ascended that our tracks were already obliterated.

Ground wasn't frozen underfoot in the lower cwm, not much ice & what there was was slushy. Back in Black, Face Route & Sergeant's are close to being in again. Craig y Rhaeadr routes are forming too. The ice needs a hard freeze, the snow needs a thaw-freeze!

Good luck to the first party out tomorrow!
 mmd 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

So much snow here at Bethesda, climbing ! well in a fashion I suppose, but there is not going to be any good climbing. The hills were quite stripped and gullies only had a little ice in them before this massive dump. Ps do not even ask Is Idwal In. That would be a silly Q and also asking what is going to be in on 28th Dec is like asking when will I win the lottery. Good to be keen , but that is over 11 days away.

Also why do folk ask if they know what the weather forecast is there must be at least 20 sites to get that from
Bryan Benn 17 Dec 2010
In reply to mmd:
Strewth, can't wait to get there. Have, amazingly, snowshoed from my front door and back, here in Kent two days running couple of weeks ago. First time there's been enough snow here in 24 years. Then two days snowshoeing in Derbyshire last week. But it sounds like you guys have got the works up there for snowshoeing. I'm due in Beddgelert Christmas Eve, but think I'll now try and get there as soon as the roads get a bit clearer. I'll be watching reports here very carefully indeed.................

Anyone else here been out on snowshoes in Snowdonia in the last day or so?
Jeremy C. 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Bryan Benn:

Can't wait, I missed out on all the awesome snowshoeing conditions last winter, I'm so psyched!. Snowshoeing has to be one of the best mountain sports, takes you to such cool places!
Peace
JC
OP Mike Peacock 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Apparently traffic has been blocked on the A55 westbound for quite some time at Llanfairfechan. Plenty of abandoned cars here in Bangor, so I can only imagine things will be worse in Snowdonia!
 Ewan Russell 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
road conditions: a55 fine everything else quite hard work.
Ogwen Valley:Very powdery, from ankle deep to above knee deep in places.
Did introductory gully, which in quite a few places I found my hands better than axes...
to summarise lot of powder about ....
 jonfun21 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I am heading over to Oswestry tonight, then Betws-y-coed tomorrow morning.

Has any been along the A5 today between these two places, what are the roads like?

Thanks, Jon
 richprideaux 17 Dec 2010
In reply to jonfun21:

East of Betws isn't too bad by all accounts, there appears to be a clear line where it gets 'bad', at the Conwy Valley...
 jonfun21 17 Dec 2010
In reply to shingsowa:

Great thanks really appreciate the post, really hope it works out ok as been looking forward to this holiday for ages.

Good luck to everyone else heading ove.
 AB1965 17 Dec 2010
In reply to jonfun21: Live in shrewsbury, though further east the roads around here are generally i good order. I hear that the Berwyns/ Llangollen area may be a bit dicey but main roads ok.
hope this helps
 richprideaux 17 Dec 2010
In reply to jonfun21:

Since posting that it's starting snowing heavily in Ruthin! So might have all changed...
 jonfun21 17 Dec 2010
In reply to AB1965: Many thanks, hope is the A5 remains reasonably clear that way we can get to the B&B in Betws-y-Coed and leave the car. We are there for 3 days so worst case can go walking from there!
Anonymous 17 Dec 2010
In reply to jonfun21:

Anyone know if Nant Peris is accessible by car at present? Someone said you can only get to Llanberis in a 4x4....anyone there who can comment?
 Banned User 77 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Anonymous: just...some cars passed me on walk home.
Metzer 17 Dec 2010
In reply to jonfun21: Did anybody manage to get out to black ladders today? Heard there were a few things in nick before the dump? Might try and head up 2moro, but as snowed in it will be a long walk not to mention a dig so would at least like to be sure there is something hidden up there.
 tobykeep 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Anonymous:

I got to Llanberis from Menai Bridge without chains or 4x4 (needed them this morning to get in) at about 4pm, but it's pretty grim over the Beran hill (Deiniolen turning) and not been as far as Nant Peris. Lots of sliding cars and lorries.
 dgp 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Metzer: Something hidden ? - yes a high avalanche risk !
 geoff b 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Metzer; good luck! Take a shovel & make sure you leave a trench for the rest of us! Snow shoes or skis advisable to be honest.
 Mike Raine 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Metzer:

It'll be a long walk through deep soft snow and avalanche is a real danger
 Misha 17 Dec 2010
Had a text today from someone I know: "Took 3hrs to drive from Shrewsbury (normally 1.5) then 2+ hrs to wad through knee deep snow to Clogwyn Ddu. Route was in awesome nick but had to rap off before the top because partner had to get back. Good job, just taken anothehr 3hrs to drive back." Don't know what route they did but suspect it was one of the mixed lines.

We're going to try to get through from Birmingham via the A5 in the morning... at least it will be getting light then and won't face the prospect of a cold night in the car! Metoffice and MWIS agree that it shouldn't be that windy and there shouldn't be that much more snow, so might be a decent day with judicious choice of route, assuming we can get to it!
 Jameskelly200 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Misha: All the traffic reports say the a5 is closed both ways due to 4 cars broken down and deep snow from Bethesda to Capel curig
 Joss 17 Dec 2010
In reply to hamishjfk:

The A5 is currently closed at Capel Curig in both directions, also Betws to Blaenau (understandable as its a mountain pass.) News reports saying Llanberis very difficult to reach.

Heard its pretty bad from Corwen to Capel Curig on the A5 as well.

Traffic Website:
http://www.traffic-wales.com/traffic

So stay away
 jezb1 17 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Corwen to betws was slow but no problem at approx 20.00 tonight but I didn't go on to capel. A470 betws to the a55 was just wet and the a55 around junction - colwyn bay was fine.

Going to try and get to ogwen in the morning...
 wolf.leeb 17 Dec 2010
only real difficulty with regards access to llanberis pass is the hill by beran / deiniolen.. I live at the bottom of said hill which provided much entertainment this morn.. Come via Caernarfon and you wont have any problems (provided you don't drive like some of the tools i've seen today)..

took a stroll through quarries over to nant peris and up to cwm glas mawr... very hard work and not much ice to show for it... best bet is monday / tuesday if your traveling far.

snowing heavily again now so not looking too promising for the morrow.
 Misha 17 Dec 2010
A55 seems sensible. I wonder if the Lakes might be any better but we're picking someone up from Shrewsbury, so Wales it is. The report from earlier was from Clogwyn Left Hand - apparently the ice was good enough and solid. Not sure we'll get any climbing done but only one way to find out! Time to dig out the touring skis?
 Mike Raine 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Lots more fresh snow in Llanberis this morning
 George Fisher 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

How are the roads this morning?

Anyone driven to Llanberis or Ogwen?
 wolf.leeb 18 Dec 2010
barely anything on bangor-llanberis road.. passible with skill at worst point (beran)...
 jezb1 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: about to try....
 Cadairmanuk 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Gfunk:

Hi I'm in Machynlleth , total grid lock , over a foot of snow. You may come in off the A5 but I know the roads in from Welshpool to Dolgellau are closed. I was going to have a walk up Cadair Idris but can't even get 8 miles up the road. Take care guys let the gritters get out there.
 richprideaux 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Gfunk:

About 8 inches in hills aboce Cerrigydrudion. I'm having to dig the sheep out!
 L.A. 18 Dec 2010
In reply to shingsowa:If its only 8 inches in Cerrigydrudion-Do you have very tiny sheep?
Bryan Benn 18 Dec 2010
In reply to L.A.:
Lol!

OP Mike Peacock 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: The snow plough has been out and about this morning, but I've no idea what roads it's been along.
 philhilo 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:Mates have got into Bethesda via A55.30cm snow. Now walking into Ladders, summits clear, no wind.
 jezb1 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: just got through to ogwen via bethesda no problem. Awesome weather, as expected tonnes of powder. Enjoy.
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to jezb1: I got Nant > Menai with no real problem, main issue is parking once you get there. Roads should clear fast now, blue skies, lots of powder.
 Jameskelly200 18 Dec 2010
In reply to jezb1: can you update on conditions in Cwm Idwal, any ice routes in condition and can you get to them through the deep snow, thinking of heading over in the morning, subject to reports from anyone that's been down there today, UPDATES NEEDED if possible.
 Joss 18 Dec 2010

In reply to hamishjfk:
I dont think you will find ice routes in great nick as most thawed out before this big snow dump. Best aiming for mixed/ predominately rock routes. Check the winter logbooks to see whats been ticked in last few days, not much in way of ice routes:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/winter.html
I can recommend North East Spur of Y Garn, this was excellent the other week, in very similar conditions to now:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=181681
 tipsy 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Me and a friend are heading up from Cardiff tomorrow. We're planning on either sleeping in the car or camping but thought it'd be nice if we could find a cheap last minute bunk house. We're both working on a budget so if anyone has any reccomendation for cheap accommodation where we could doss and warm up after a day on the hills for sunday and monday night it'd be much appreciated.
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to tipsy: Bens Bunkhouse is a lovely spot. Great situation and accessible at the moment, so presume its open.

http://www.bensbunkhouse.co.uk/
 Fuzzy Logic 18 Dec 2010
In reply to tipsy:I know that Caban Cysgu (Gerlan) is open if you intend to climb Black Ladders area. But you will need a 4x4 to get there.
Nice hot showers.
 Jameskelly200 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Any body been in black Ladders today want to see if central gully or any grade III/IV stuff is in....
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to hamishjfk: Anyone had any joy on the roads?

Supposedly Bethesda > Capel > Llanberis is passable, but not Wanfawr to Beddgel.

Is Capel > Beddgel possible?

Is Rhydd Ddu accessible at all?

Looking at going for a 'run' and I'll need car support at a few locations.
OP Mike Peacock 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: The gritters have been out again this afternoon. The main roads seem pretty good, but the minor roads really need a 4x4 in places. I decided the mountains weren't worth it today, so had a walk up Moel y Ci (400m). The summit was knee-deep powder! The Carneddau looked stunning though. Progress on foot (even at low level) is knackering!
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) The gritters have been out again this afternoon.

I've seen very few, and very few ploughs.

 jezb1 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: no problems on a5. Had a good day strolling up y garn. Mega hard work wading through powder but cracking weather. If there is ice out there it must be under loads of powder but I saw a couple of people coming down from cneifion harnessed up.
 PontiusPirate 18 Dec 2010
In reply to jezb1:

Given that there's no base to speak of under this fresh powder, what do people think about the possibility of ski touring???
Any locals care to pass comment?

(Its probably worth pointing out that I'm running a pair of rather old, skinny and straight downhill skis with modern AT bindings and decent skins - I'm just wondering, if, despite the depth, its just going to be too soft to do anything in? I've only just put this set up together and I'm itching to try it before I get to Scotland at New Year... when its all probably thawed!)

Ta.

PP.
 wolf.leeb 18 Dec 2010
No decent ice at cwm idwal yet, mon/tue poss.
OP Mike Peacock 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate: I am not, and never have been a skier. However, some of my friends today thought it would be excellent powder for ski touring.
 Andy Mountains 18 Dec 2010
In reply to wolf.leeb:

Did you have a close look yeah? I'm hoping to be at Idwal early monday for some ice.
 PontiusPirate 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Interesting, I'm planning on heading over to North Wales to one of the CC huts, but am currently partnerless for climbing (nothing organised as I wasn't expecting to be in this situation!) so ski-touring *sounds* like a good plan, but I can't think of many North Wales mountainous places grassy enough to allow damage-free progress given I'm not going to have a great deal of 'float' on skinny skis like these... and i'll probably be carrying a lot of kit.

PP
 Jameskelly200 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Andy have you heard of anything claimable re ice routes in and around black ladders or Ogwen area or would it be just one long slog anywhere.
 Dr.S at work 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate:
glyders from jo browns?
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock)
> I can't think of many North Wales mountainous places grassy enough to allow damage-free progress .
>
> PP

Moel Eilio ridge?

Edge of the Carneddau (Wnion, Faban, Wigau area).

 earlsdonwhu 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate: Y Braich ridge? Or Berwyns?
OP Mike Peacock 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate: Pen yr Helgi Du seems popular with skiers. Combine it with Pen Llithrig y Wrach perhaps?
 Ewan Russell 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
blazed a trail up to clogwyn Ddu today after driving from llangefni to ogwen valley(first car) we accidently did a route to the right of righthand branch which may be a new route(1/2). Some other lads got on el mancho(not sure of there success). In case it aint obvious and people are wondering there is copius amounts of powder about and unless your going to an estabished venue probs double your walk in time estimate. Turf wasn't frozen as well probably due to having a thick snow layer insulate it.
On the way back the roads were all good and basically 30mph was doable on most roads comfortably. The only exception is the a55 is probs 60+(depending on your balls size
Have fun folks!
 mmd 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: If the turf is not frozen then El Mancho is in no fit state to climb the first two pitches require turf
 Andy Mountains 18 Dec 2010
In reply to hamishjfk:

To be honest I have no idea at the moment. If I hear anything you will be the first to know though.
Anonymous 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

The conditions to drive up the pass at the mo are kind of ok, snowy and icy but better than they were, but there is no where to park as all of the laybys are under deep snow. The cc hut in the pass is totally inaccessible.

hope this helps make up your mind.
 Ewan Russell 18 Dec 2010
In reply to mmd:
There was a barely powder on the face proper so I assume el mancho was frozen
 PontiusPirate 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

All (ski-ing) these suggestions sound intriguing, though I'm struggling to visualise where Pen yr Helgi Du actually is (I'll need to unpack the maps then!)

Good info re Ynys Ettws access: sounds like there's no-one there (which I find surprising!) so even by Monday evening (as I'll be travelling over first thing Monday) it could well still be inaccessable.

Right, I'm going to check to see if there's anywhere ski-able closer to home too.

PP.
 dgp 18 Dec 2010
In reply to PontiusPirate: Will be deep soft powder apart from exposed ridges. Too soft yet for touring unless you pick your route carefully eg Pen yr Helgi Du via water board road - hitting rocks when trying to turn in this soft stuff will not be pleasant ! and will be hard work without carving/powder skis . I,m going to leave it a few days to consolidate a bit
 PontiusPirate 18 Dec 2010
In reply to dgp:

Cheers for that consideration (this was my suspicion given how dry and cold the snow is).
Mmmm, now wishing I was off Wednesday and Thursday instead... :-S

PP.
 Katie86 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Just spent Fri/Sat in Capel Curig and travelled back to the Wirral this evening.

Road Conditions:

The coast road is excellent as far as Conwy and the A470 to Betws is clear then the A5 to Capel Curig is gritted and ploughed regularly, also very good.

The access just stops at Pinnacle Cafe and when we left Capel Curig the locals were still saying that the A5 to Bethesda was very bad with several cars stranded and the road to Llanberris was impassable.
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Katie86: I was chatting to someone at 5 who said they drove Capel to Llanberis via the pass moments before. BBC Wales Traffic is saying capel . Bethesda 'just' passable.
 Katie86 18 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Ok I stand corrected. I did't go up that way so wouldn't know for sure.
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Katie86: I was surprised when I heard it. I got to wanfawr from llanrug, just, but the road to Beddgel looked impassable.
RFA 18 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
Useful Gauge as to the who has requested assistance from the local MR teams and their 4x4s for access to hard to get areas.

http://www.ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incidents/incidents.php


 David Hooper 18 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Capel today

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=264717&id=635244753&l=b3a5a1b...

photos courtesy of Katie

PS - Katie tell Allan I owe him a drink for knocking the cornice off - Im gonna try to get down Mon or Tue.
 Katie86 19 Dec 2010
In reply to David Hooper:

I'm off on Tue and would quite like to get down, although it would only be for the day. I think it will be my last day in Snowdonia before I move "down south"
 Katie86 19 Dec 2010
In reply to RFA:

Several MRT members where out on the road on Friday and probably today. The snow came down so fast on Fri I guess many people where caught out. The road out of Betws to Capel Curig was really bad and there where several cars "stranded" on the hill - I think they'd panicked, stopped, and then got stuck. We carried on at a steady 20 as we couldn't have towed anyone. Put the car in the Tyn y Coed car park and got stuck in with some digging. Several 4X4's towed cars as far as the Tyn y ... the pub was the quietest I think i've ever seen it but for those of us who enjoyed an early pint (s) we all shared stories and enjoyed a brilliant atmosphere.

Was on the hill today, just at the back of the Tyn y... would have liked to have gone up Siabod but didn't fancy wading through VERY DEEP powder all day!

It's with thanks to the gritters and snow ploughs, MRT and people with spades, shovels, 4x4's and a good dose of community spirit that the main roads are ok, and people who are struggling have help/support.
 Andy Mountains 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

So just to clarify, has anyone driven Bethesda to Ogwen? Is this passable? We are heading that way early tomorrow morning & will be in 4x4.
OP Mike Peacock 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): I'm not sure. My guess is you'd be ok in a 4x4. No more snow has come down so the main enemy will be ice! On the subject of which, there is an impressive array of large icicles all around my roof. That can only bode well for the mountains!
 mynyddresident 19 Dec 2010
-15 in Capel on the drive in to work. Bethesda to Betws no problem unless your inept
 nikinko 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Katie86:

nice post. Surreyites are morosly staring out of the windows, gridlocking the roads and ignoring everyone else!
 david morse 19 Dec 2010
my mates headed up to clogwyn du yesterday, they said there was too much powder to try el mancho so they did pillar chimney. They said the ice on the 3rd pitch (top of clogwyn left hand i think?) was in good condition. The approach to the crag was epic apparently.

did anyone do anything else yesterday? Anyone broken trail into the ladders yet?

Also im fairly sure the A55's totally clear
 Dr.S at work 19 Dec 2010
In reply to david morse:
spoke to a mate last night who had been snow shoeing in the carneddau and he met some folk who had been on the ladders - he said they went up ice fall gully and reported good ice. Also that the rest of the crag had a lot of snow cover.
 Banned User 77 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Dr.S at work: Can't believe how much powder is around. Just aborted a winter paddy buckley attempt. Took 2:10 to get up elidir which is normally an hour.

Avalanche risk will be quite high, loads of unconsolidated powder, lots of the snow also fell as graupel and wind slab is forming in places and lots of snow is being blown around.
 JimmAwelon 19 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Thats it the BBC have just mentioned AVALANCHE!
 Banned User 77 19 Dec 2010
In reply to JimmAwelon: Not seen this section of this site before. Worth a look..

http://www.hightrek.co.uk/climbing/snow/snowreport.htm
 geoff b 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Cloggy was pleasantly quiet today. Think we did Camus from Eastern Gully but not sure as the guide book photo & description don't match! Whatever it was, it was in excellent condition with brilliant well protected mixed turfy climbing. The walk in was epic (crotch deep snow) but the path is clearer now. Not too much snow on the steeper climbs (Jubilee, Direct start to Western Terrace, E. Gully) but the terraces look loaded. Very cold (-8) in 'Beris @ 7pm.
Met a party who'd had fun on the ice falls to the left side of the Cloggy crags proper.
 jezb1 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Anyone fancy getting out on cneifion arete tomorrow? Tempted to solo it but should be sensible!
 Dr.S at work 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Anybody willing to speculate on the likely progression of this snow? will it remain as powder until there is any kind of thaw? wondering about getting across on the 24th or even a night trip before then to take advantage of the moon......

(and yes, usual wild speculation caveats expected)
 wolf.leeb 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Dr.S at work: A night trip tomorrow or tues would be bloomin beautiful.. clear skies, full moon, winter solstice... jees.. wat more could you ask for? Its the stuff of dreams.

Snow on hills not such a problem anymore as there are already beaten trails throughout carneddau, glyders and snowdon, some of which miss the footpaths by some way but get the job done.

just bring a shovel to make a parking space if your heading up to ogwen cottage.

 panad 19 Dec 2010
In reply to Anonymous:

weird...we saw a Berflingo rag it into the car park with at leasy 6 ft of air! must be clear.

and the CC hut's roof doesn't even have any snow on it, so hot inside.

probably why CID isn't in!!

 Misha 19 Dec 2010
SATURDAY - BLACK LADDERS. Birmingham to Bethesda via the A55 was fine apart from some snow around Shrewsbury, took 3 hours, which is only 20 minutes longer than usual via the A5. The A5 to Bethesda was ok but the smaller roads had not been ploughed so we only got a little way up from the main road. 4x4s were getting through to Gerlan. Walking over from our parking spot to what used to be the usual parking spot (where you're not supposed to park) only took 10 minutes - worth bearing in mind. Could have skied all the way! A couple of teams had already gone in so we had a track to follow but it was still hard work. Took 2.5 hours to get to the start of the scrambling below Icefall Gully. That seemed to be the only feasible route given the late start (only got to Bethesda at 10) and the vast amounts of snow. The ice was ok but cruddy in places. We did a variation mixed pitch to the right of the ice fall, which was scary due to lack of gear and some rotten snow ice but provided some enjoyable climbing. My advice would be to stick to the ice fall! The easy ground beyond the second pitch was a slog but not too bad. Another team tried swimming up Central Gully but gave up.

SUNDAY, CLOGWYN DDU. No track even to Llyn Idwal in the morning, so 2 hours to walk in. Did Y Gully Left Hand, which was a bit of a battle to get to due to deep snow in the approach gully but worth it. P1 was on fairly soft ice which was quite thin, though it took a stubby. Certainly thinner than when I did it last February but I think also easier as the ice was softer and perhaps a bit less steep. About V 4. On P2 we took the standard finish up the leftward trending wide ice line, which was as excellent III 3 on plastic ice that was thick enough for screws. The direct finish up a groove looked lean but was probably doable. There was also a beautiful line of fragile chandeliers, one for the ice maestros perhaps. A team tried El Mancho but abbed off from the stance below the last pitch, not sure why. The crage was in great winter nick, lots of rime, all the rock around Left Hand was verglassed (presumably from rain earlier in the week) and the turf that we encountered was bomber. There was a half decent path on the way back from the Cneifion Arete onwards (above that our track on the way in got obliterated by the wind) and the path into Cwm Idwal was a motorway.

Two great days considering the conditions - a perfect example of 'seek and you will find'.

Obviously we were a long way away from the Idwal ice routes but they were there as far as we could seen and, given the temperatures, I suspect some of them will already be doable. Only one way to find out! The Appendix is growing...

On the way back we went Idwal - Betwys - Llandudno - A55 and that was fine. The worst roads were back in Birmingham!
 daviesp2 20 Dec 2010
In reply to nikinko:
> (In reply to Katie86)
>
> nice post. Surreyites are morosly staring out of the windows, gridlocking the roads and ignoring everyone else!

Not all of us!! some of were in the hills, got to pen-y-pass YHA at around 1am saturday morning!!! Waded up to look at Sargeants gully saturday to find a giant slush puppy, so went back down again! Hard work but fun!

 Banned User 77 20 Dec 2010
In reply to Dr.S at work: Could do with a few freeze thaws, but last time we just had one massive thaw. Doubt it will change much for the next 3-4 days. Milder weather due after xmas I think, just have to wait and see how mild...

Some photo's of last night on the miners. One of the few runnable paths in Snowdonia at the moment...

http://sarzmountainrun.blogspot.com/2010/12/commiseration-run.html
 climber_medic 20 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Does anybody have any onsight observations of the ice routes in Cwm Idwal please?? Also i'm a little concerned about the amount of powder around as I doubt its consolidating too well if at all in these temperatures.

Failing that I think i'll stick to ridges but some on the scene info would be good.

Thanks
 smuffy 20 Dec 2010
In reply to climber_medic: Thinking of heading up on Wednesday also, would ideally like grade 2 gullies but concerned about conditions. Any feedback much appreciated.
 Banned User 77 20 Dec 2010
In reply to lee.halley: I'd be wary of conditions in the gullies, avalanche warning on the Met Office.

A factor on me dropping out of my run this weekend was the thought of descending a snow filled gully of Tryfan.

A friend did Crib Goch and said it was basically punching into snow to get contact on the rock.
 The Grist 20 Dec 2010
In reply to climber_medic: Was there on Sunday. No ice in Idwal except the appendix which had a formed upper pillar and nothing lower. No parties climbing in the lower idwal area. We went higher and found a great mixed route but no ice.
 climber_medic 20 Dec 2010
In reply to Mark Grist: Mark. Thank you for your reply mate. I think this has kind of confirmed what I was thinking so we'll go for a walk instead.

Thanks again
 smuffy 20 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Yeh its not looking good but was hoping something like hidden gully in Cwm Cneifion might be frozen and safe being so high up.
 Andy Mountains 20 Dec 2010
In reply to climber_medic:

Hi Sean. I am just back home after a quick early morning blast into Cwm Idwal. We climbed The Ramp which had great ice in the steeper middle pitch, we also intended to climb The Screen which looked excellent but my mate had to be back in Ellesmere Port for lunchtime, so didnt have time. Idwal Stream looked good, although has a thich covering of powder. South Gully also looked good. The Curtain has plenty of ice forming on it but looked too thin to climb (although I'm sure someone will give it a go).
Snow not consolidated at all anywhere (except for where it has been trodden down). Very hard going forging new paths!!
More info & pics on blog later.
Got to go xmas shopping now. Yipee
 Scarab 20 Dec 2010
How are the roads around llanberis pass and penypass? Is it drivable?

Regards
 jezb1 20 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: headed up to cwm cneifion today, aimed to do the arete but it had a couple of teams on it so did seniors ridge instead. It was surprisingly good with some icy steps and some good turf in between the swimming sections. Lots of people around playing all over the place and some teams on clogwyn ddu.

All in all better conditions than expected and fantastic weather.

 smuffy 20 Dec 2010
In reply to jezb1:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) headed up to cwm cneifion today, aimed to do the arete but it had a couple of teams on it so did seniors ridge instead. It was surprisingly good with some icy steps and some good turf in between the swimming sections. Lots of people around playing all over the place and some teams on clogwyn ddu.
>
> All in all better conditions than expected and fantastic weather.

Any idea what conditions were like in the gullys there?
 jezb1 20 Dec 2010
?In reply to Mike Peacock: still powdery in the gullys but lots of tracks up the ones on the back wall so prob starting to consolidate due to traffic. Some of the snow is starting to get better higher up .
 Andy Mountains 20 Dec 2010

Today's Idwal ice report by me, and yesterday's Bristley Ridge report by Joss on blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 Banned User 77 20 Dec 2010
In reply to Scarab: all drivable.
 Scarab 20 Dec 2010
Thanks IAN!
 Misha 20 Dec 2010
In reply to lee.halley:
Forget the snow gullies, you'll be swimming in powder or at least very soft snow. They need a good freeze-thaw cycle. There were however some ice streaks on Tower Slabs in Cwm Cneifion yesterday which would probably go at about II/III. Didn't look at them closely but seemed to be fairly fat.

The BBC monthly forecast (which tends to be surprisingly reliable for predicting overall trends) suggests a return to the usual mild, wet winter weather after the post-Xmas thaw. If that means just a few degrees above zero at sea level, all well and good for the higher crags, particularly if the nights are clear. If it's warmer than that and doesn't freeze overnight, I'd better get reconciled with the idea of the long drive up to Scotland. Time will tell...
 DANNYdjb 20 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: HI passed you guys in the car park on sunday. We had bailed going to the top after snow became waist deep and a very unsteady 30m from the top. Did you guys go all the way up. We had a really tough day as we were the first ones, so spent all day trail making.
Dan
 Banned User 77 20 Dec 2010
In reply to DANNYdjb: No, turned back as it got steep, bit worried about the dogs. Just went up again tonight. Miners is now a quick trod all the way, steep at the top, no dogs tonight, requiring care, some wind slab forming, then ran back via llanberis. Thanks for breaking the trail..
 DANNYdjb 20 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: No problem, but youre right its stunning up there at the mo (just had a look at your website).Are you of up in the morning to see the winter solstice /lunar eclipse ?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/dec/20/lunar-eclipse-winter-solstice

dan
 Banned User 77 20 Dec 2010
In reply to DANNYdjb: Just heard about that..think we will..
Smiff 20 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Anyone looking for a partner on thursday? I'm based in Chester and keen to get out in the hills. Drop me a line. 07815 five three zero double 1 seven.
Al
 GDavies 20 Dec 2010
Climbed the Ramp today with a client on his first day out. Nice climbing but not loads of ice yet. Other routes such as the screen which was climbed was also thin but possible.

Cold up there and water dripping and freezing as we climbed so shouldn't take long before things fatten up.

See http://climbing-kayaking-walking.blogspot.com/ for more
 Andy Mountains 21 Dec 2010
In reply to GDavies:

Was it you we spoke to around 11am as we were walking out?
Nice Landy by the way, we were drooling over it!
 CLetham 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Got round the horseshoe yesterday in cracking clear conditions, the Crib Goch side is more trodden than Y Lliwedd and the snow is still very soft and unconsolidated where it hasnt been walked. The miners track is very well tracked as mentioned above.
 StuLade 21 Dec 2010
Climbed Monday up Devil's Pasture in Idwal, conditions weren't great. Ice was bit rotten, climable but protection was laughable on the first pitch. The Curtain was quite drippy when we went past so might be fattening up but looked like it needed a bit of feeding. Second pitch I employed a bit of front crawl to good effect but could bridge out thankfully. Matt who I was climbing with had reported better conditions on The Ramp the previous day. Today went up Jammed Boulder Gully on the side of the Mot, got about half way up the first pitch before having to bail as one of the team were suffering from mild hypothermia. Encountered rotten snow ice again. Think it all needs a gentle freeze/thaw cycle to get sorted.
 Adam Lincoln 21 Dec 2010
In reply to StuLade:
> Climbed Monday up Devil's Pasture in Idwal

Anyone been today? Heading here tomorrow. What is the drive in like, ok? I assume no sign of the apendix forming yet?
 Cadairmanuk 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Snowing hard again in Mid Wales , just text my mate in Blaenau and it's snowing hard there too so check on the rds.

Ben
 Adam Lincoln 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Oh and whats the kitchen like?
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Roads were almost all clear, but getting bad again, we've had a good inch or so again..
 Adam Lincoln 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln) Roads were almost all clear, but getting bad again, we've had a good inch or so again..

Should make the early drive over fun

 StuLade 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Snowing intermittently most of today, the appendix didn't look fully formed enough on Monday and what ice I've found so far hasn't been great.
 geoff b 21 Dec 2010
Bumped into a couple descending from Cloggy on Sunday who had been climbing ice falls on the left side of the main crag. They said they had some photos. Are you out there?!
 Andy Mountains 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to saintlade)
> [...]
>
> Anyone been today? Heading here tomorrow. What is the drive in like, ok? I assume no sign of the apendix forming yet?

Apparently appendix is 'complete but not that fat' according to Carl. Read his full Idwal report from today here: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

 Adam Lincoln 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> [...]
>
> Apparently appendix is 'complete but not that fat' according to Carl. Read his full Idwal report from today here: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/

Brill, first day ever ice climbing tomorrow, so pleased stuff is kind of in!
Devils apendix looks ace.
 Mike Nolan 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Went up the direct start to Seniors Ridge in Cwm Idwal today. Lot of deep powder snow, waist deep in places. Hard work once you get off any established paths and there were some small spindrift avalanches!

Visibility started to get pretty poor as more snow arrived at about 4. It wasn't too cold though, about -2 deg. C.

Slight heads up on the parking, we had some trouble finding a place we could get in to. Ogwen Cottage was pretty slippy and we ended up parking further down the road towards Tryfan.

 David Hooper 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I'm in Tyn y Coed @ Capel Curig just now - snow b een falling all afternoon And main roads getting thinly covered agin now plow/gritter stopped for evening. I've been out XC skiing on deep fresh stuff.
Reckon any trails will be filled in by morning.
Snow forcast till lunchtime thEn sun meant to come out.
Ony -2 here just now - not as cold as its been
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to David Hooper: Mad here. Huge snow in Nant. To top it off Sarah just 'degloved' her heel, falling running and catching it on a slate step...currently awaiting some sort of transport to get her to A&E..women!
 Rory Shaw 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: that sounds rubbish! Dumping down in Deiniolen, skiing tomorrow. I try to keep lastest conditions posted on my twitter http://twitter.com/#!/RoryShaw
 David Hooper 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: shit Iain - that sounds a bit nasty - R U OK for transport?
 mrchewy 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Been in Wales since Saturday night but headed home today as it was starting to snow in Capel at 10am this morning. Went up Y Garn on Sunday via the North East ridge and down Devils, most people trying ice were saying it wasn't in but did see two people top out on Cneiffon Arete. Sunday night in the back of my van and the temp gauge hit -19. The landlord in the Tyn Y Coed said officially it had been -18.4. Plenty of down kept me pretty warm tho.
Up Moel Siabod yesterday which was just a powder fest but amazing views at the top of the Snowdon horseshoe. Had considered Crib Goch but going by one of the above comments it seems I made the right decision.
Roads were good when I left, from Capel to Bethesda and Llanberis but today's snow may have changed that.
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to David Hooper: She's just been picked up by a nice NHS range rover, he said they can get her there but can't get her back so se's gone in with an over night bag, roads should be fine in the morning.

It's just a nasty tear of the skin, literally degloved her heal. Freaky accident.
 mrchewy 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Hope she heals quickly fella
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to mrchewy: She was jogging on the spot saying 'look I can stil run'..once it starts to get inflamed I think she'll have a nasty few days.
 climber_medic 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Sorry to hear that mate. Seen a few similar incidents when I worked on A&E and it sounds like stitches will be needed. RICE will be the order of the day for a while which wont be easy for an enthusiastic runner.
 Trefo 21 Dec 2010
Looking at the weather forecast it looks to be warming up a bit on boxing day-but I keep hearing conflicting opinions. What are the locals on the ground feeling, is the ice in need of a thaw and refreeze cos its brittle or is it going to suffer when it gets slightly warmer?
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to Trefo: Depends how warm..the last thaw didn't look like it would be harsh, but it stripped everything..a few freeze thaws will help.
 Banned User 77 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Oh and the forecast has been quite variable from now on, looks cold until boxing day then wait and see I think...didn't expect this much snow..we were told 'light precipiation'..
 DANNYdjb 21 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
Coming back up for a couple of days tommorrow,to visit ogwen and snowdon area. Sounds like everything is filling in again ?
dan
 carld 21 Dec 2010
In reply to DANNYdjb We've had 6-7 inches here tonight and thats next to coast, Conwy!Still coming down heavily.
 DANNYdjb 22 Dec 2010
In reply to carld: excellent.
cheers

dan
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to DANNYdjb: Lots falling, snowed for a good 10 hrs or so now, some wind slab was forming in places last night, with lose powder beneath and now on top the snow pack will be forming nice poorly bonded layers..I'd be very careful of on any steep snow slopes for the next few days..
 DANNYdjb 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Hi. whats it like this morning. Any road chaos?

DAN
 Andy Say 22 Dec 2010
In reply to DANNYdjb:
Llanberis Pass clear and Ogwen clear. Capel to PyG white but OK @ 8.30
 haydn 22 Dec 2010
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12055533

Says Pen-y-Pass is closed.
 mmd 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Two major new VII-7 fall in North Wales

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.com/

Thickhead 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Any one know what Aber Falls is looking like?
Thickhead 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

iain, sorry to hear about Sarah - how is she today?
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Thickhead: She's OK thanks, won't be running for a good few weeks, but it was a nice clean cut so should heal soon.
 jimjimjim 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Hard as nails. Hope she's running again soon.
jim
Thickhead 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Bloody hell, did a good job there. Glad she's OK anyhow. Are you still going to Scotland? It will take a good couple of weeks for the swelling/bruising to settle fully.

4x4 ambulance - might need to sort one of them out in Conwy soon if this cold weather continues!
 richprideaux 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Thickhead:

There are quite a few operating in N wales already, plus MRTs, St Johns etc etc
 mrchewy 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Best wishes to the lady mate - could have been a lot messier than it's turned out.

Kelvin
Thickhead 22 Dec 2010
In reply to shingsowa:

I know, it was a kryptic message - my wife is about to go into labour at any time and currently we're snowed in!
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Thickhead: Yeah think so. We've talked about cancelling but time off work and other issues mean we'll probably just go and make the best of it..

4x4 was excellent, quick response even though it was non-emergency. Not too many of them but think they've ben sin MRT's/Coast guards etc. Seem to be coping OK.
Thickhead 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Its amazing how many people are phoning the local surgery and offering use of their 4x4's to get to people too. Good community spirit.

The Conwy Valley train line has proved invaluable this week!

Hope you have a good time away then, send my regards to her for a quick recovery.
 mmd 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Two major new VII-7 fall in North Wales

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.com/
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to mmd: Seems to be more of a snowboard and skiing scene than a climbing scene at the moment.
 mattsccm 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
The gullies/chimneys opposite Llechog and under Snowdon had some good ice on Monday.
 mmd 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Not sure how you work that out Ian, loads climbing taken place , new routes, classics reapeated, old lines climbed
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to mmd: I was joking, but to be honest I've seen more people skiing or boarding than climbing... and it's Iain...
chiz not signed in 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Bit late posting, but broke trail up north ridge of Tryfan on saturday. Purgatory. Some serious layers of graupel, no consolidation and the steep bit up to the notch was thought provoking. Descended Notch and Y gullies which was interesting, with more graupel and avalanche debris at the foot of Notch gully.
Sunday tried Devils' Pasture but turf was properly unfrozen and ice cruddy and poorly bonded. Team on Screen were knocking big chunks off, but got up ok. Did The Ramp which was just frozen enough, altough turf again marginal.

Driving back to Capel tomorrow, hows the A5? and is the Tyn y coed car park still cleared or back to square one? Also the Bryn Glo layby?

Chiz
 Banned User 77 22 Dec 2010
In reply to chiz not signed in: Not surprised at the avalanche debris at all, we were knocking off big chunks of wind slab just on the Llanberis path and climbing the top of the Pyg track the graupel that had fallen was clearly evident in the snow pack. A bit worrying to see.
 AB1965 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:

Loads of snow - traveled up from shrewsbury roads are fine all the way.. Lots of ice building it you have the fitness to get to it.

We walked up the PYG track in the end breaking trail for hour - made a nice path though.

stunning day to be out
 Rory Shaw 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK: Definately lots of skiing going on - you definately wouldn@t want to walk too far in the mountains at the Moment unless you like a bit of wading!

Photos from Ski touring on the Glyderau today on my blog: http://snowdoniamountaineering.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-welsh-skiing.ht...
 Adam Long 22 Dec 2010
In reply to:

Went up to Clogwyn Du on Monday, good nick and decent path stomped out. S
Tuesday was a different story, wind and snow all day. Walked into Ysgolion Duon, heavy going, and climbed near Gallipoli. Decent nick but consolidation would be good, some windslab forming on exit slopes. Descent tough, the final mile into Gerlan very confusing in drifting snow and darkness.
 ClimberEd 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

The ramp and the screen were in condition yesterday, although apparently the screen wasn't formed as per normal (according to others, I don't have anything to compare it to).

Went up N ridge of Tryfan today, lots of excavation needed for holds etc but generally good fun. Slid down one of the west gully's on our arses, great fun and probably my quickest ever descent - once ot flattened out lots of wading back to the road!

Beautiful weather and well worth getting out. Should think the kitchen is hacked to bits by now though.
 David Hooper 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Tyn y Coed car park cleared by tractor today - glorious just being here , regardless of what you do. The trees from Betws to Capel are like an xmas card scene . Went to Moel Siabod today - a good stomped trench to the Llyn and ridge.
 Sean Kelly 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Rory Shaw: Some awesome snow conditions in Wales by the look of it! Great photos!
 Jameskelly200 22 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Climbed Idwal Stream today, very hard work 3 foot of very soft snow, and ice that is getting a bit soft, i am sure a big avalanche must be on the way. some other teams backed of after the first pitch.
 mrchewy 22 Dec 2010
In reply to David Hooper: Chomped that trench myself on Monday... I reckon no more than half a dozen people before that. Hope you had the views I had.
chiz not signed in 22 Dec 2010
In reply to IainRUK:
there were 4 distinct layers on Tryfan on Sat, plus loads of graupel pouring out, as you say, worrying. By sunday there was wind slab and a lot of drifting and redistribution. Reminded me of this exact time last year, but lots more powder. Didn't really want to head down the gullies to get off Tryfan, especially as we weren't sure of which gully we were in, and the various chockstones/steep bits were 'exciting' but glad to get down in one piece. The avalanche debris wa s pretty disconcerting but seemed to have come from the slabs by Y gully buttress.

Mr Chewy, was that you I was chatting with in the Tyn on Sunday night? Glad you got up Siabod, hope you weren't too frozen in your van.

Glad to hear the Tyn carpark is cleared, only just managed to make it in on Friday night, and out on monday.

Chiz
chiz not signed in 22 Dec 2010
In reply to chiz not signed in:
oh, and was accused of dry tooling in the Kitchen on our way down on Sunday, although not to my face....

It wasn't me, I'd just backed off two routes for being out of nick!
 mrchewy 22 Dec 2010
In reply to chiz not signed in:
Yeh that was me fella, -19 in my van Sunday night but plenty of down kept me alive. Did wonder if you were on the hill Monday but I only saw a couple of fellows from north Wales. Came down off Siabod and got chatting to Luke and Che in the Tyn, they kindly signed me in as a guest at the hut, it was nice to be warm and comfortable for the first time in a few days. Great trip and was hoping to be back over next Wednesday but a fair bit of work has come in, so the hills will have to wait.
Hopefully bump into you again over the winter.

Kelvin
chiz not signed in 22 Dec 2010
In reply to mrchewy: Glad you were warm enough,I decided to head back to shrewsbury monday lunchtime as was worried about roads, so bailed out of Siabod, was fed up of wading to be honest. How was the Deaer Dhu? Took a while to dig car out and get the ice off...Good on Che and Luke for getting you up the cottage, its not bad is it!

see you again

chiz
 mrchewy 22 Dec 2010
In reply to chiz not signed in: Deaer Dhu was not bad, powder as expected but plenty of grip. Had tried to get up to the first summit on the right (between the lakes), got halfway up and came back down as it was no fun.
There was a tractor clearing your car park when I left... it was needed, you must have had a right game getting out of there. Hut's not bad at all, nice sense of history in the photos on the walls. I see why you put your gators back on to walk up there tho haha. Made a break for England as it was snowing heavy by lunchtime and it was a good job I did as it's thick snow in the Midlands now.

Have a good hols chap.
In reply to Mike Peacock: Did Central Route and the Ramp Yesterday, Rotten ice on first pitch of central and Deep powder after that. Good fun none the less. Got in ramp just before dark, Good Ice and gear. Lots of folk enjoying the screen too. Beautiful day.
 Nick Mortley 23 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Climbed in Cwm Silyn yesterday which was climbable but could do with a little more of a freeze. http://nickmortley.blogspot.com/
 Stuart Wildman 23 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Yesteday went for a day trip to Idwal.
We climbed
The Ramp, 2nd pitch nice ice and fun.
The Screen (1st grade 4), the ice seemed ok, tiny bit of sushy bits, but still gave me confidence.
Idwal Stream, as stated above, the ice is getting worse on this (compared to last week). The top was very deep snow in places, wading waist deep and having to swim, seemed as though we were the only ones to go right to the top... Slow going with headtorches def needed.

All in all a good day
 Andy Mountains 23 Dec 2010
Carl & I climbed The Screen in Idwal today. Ice was a bit cruddy in places, but was well worth it. A good day out.
Several teams on The Ramp which looked decent. At least 2 teams climbed The Devils Appendix which looked scary!
 Jack Geldard 23 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I have heard that the Devil's Appendix is in, and the Idwal ice in general is looking okay.

Went up to Craig y Rhaeadr today for a quick look. It looks much better than it is, the ice is quite rotten.

Photo here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=162474

Face route on Cyrn Las looked good from afar and the snow isn't too epic to wallow through.

Most people seem to be skiing or boarding though!
 Adam Lincoln 23 Dec 2010
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) I have heard that the Devil's Appendix is in

Yep some mates did it today.
Where are people boarding, what is the 'in' place to board in North Wales, that isn't too rocky?
 Andy Mountains 24 Dec 2010

I've got a couple of photo's of climbers on the Appendix yesterday around midday. One was wearing a lime green jacket. If it was you, email me and I will get the pics to you.
Andy
 Adam Lincoln 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

It was probably my mate Stu. I've emailed you through here. If you send them me ill pass them on. Not sure he comes on here.
 bryn 24 Dec 2010
This was a pretty good day on skis on Wednesday:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=473522183014&comments
 stevez 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I don't believe it! I've not managed to get out at all during this snap and as soon as I have some time it looks like we're in for another aggressive thaw from Monday onwards! Arghhh!
 stevev 24 Dec 2010
In reply to bryn: This was a pretty good day on skis on Wednesday:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=473522183014&comments

it says it's private when i click the link
 al123 24 Dec 2010
In reply to stevez: pleeeassee tell me thats a joke......
will pretty much all the gullies and ridges turn to slush then?
also are there any dry tooling venues in wales? ive seen one dry tooling climb in the slate quarries any more info?
 Simon Caldwell 24 Dec 2010
In reply to stevez:

> it looks like we're in for another aggressive thaw

It might not be too aggressive. Here's what MWIS says:


Widespread upland gales on Sunday and Monday. Very varied local conditions as rain edges eastwards, and the wind scours out cold air from some valleys but not others. Snow will mostly melt to rain, but in locally will reach low levels as snow. With deeply frozen ground, most rain will freeze on impact to give widespread ice.
Winds on the hills will blow from the south more or less all week, curving in from the west (the mild Atlantic) early on, but from the east (cold Continent) later on. This will bring a return to dry weather with overnight frost, but overall much less cold than recently.
 Andy Mountains 24 Dec 2010
In reply to al123:
> also are there any dry tooling venues in wales? ive seen one dry tooling climb in the slate quarries any more info?

White Goods. Topo here: http://ramonmarin-uk.blogspot.com/2009/11/white-goods-topo.html
 stevez 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Toreador:

I really hope you're right. Met Office forecasting +7 degrees!!!
 al123 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): cheers for that. would i be a real spoil sport if i climbed the dry tooling routes with climbing rock shoes? im only a begineer too. as my winter boots are plastic koflachs types of things and weigh soo much. thanks for the help and sorry for being such a pestering noob.
 Dr.S at work 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: out this morning amazingly quiet - bristly ridge still deepish powder despite some previous ascents, beautiful day, got some pictures of a team on crib y ddsygl, not sure which route - hope it consolidates rather than vanishes this time!
 Si dH 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Dr.S at work:
Busy in Idwal today.
Walked up through Devil's Kitchen to Y Garn about 11am. Saw three parties on the Ramp, one on the Screen, two on Pasture, two on south gully, one on plus two waiting at bottom for the Appendix, and one on a new route to the right of it. Quite a bit of queuing going on overall. Spoke to people who had done other routes too.

Still far too much powder for any gullies. Needs a freeze thaw. Conditions apparently ok on most routes but some are powder with a layer of water ice...
 DANNYdjb 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Si dH:
pretty much did the same, but also went up part of devils staircase.
great day stunning views.
DAN
 richprideaux 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Went for a bimble up the PYG and down the Miners, tons of snow, cornices formong above the Zig Zags and a nice full-depth slab avalanche above the Miners about 300yds out of the car park.

Some windslab forming, about 8 inches on top of crappy unconsolidated powder...
 Iwan 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Swam up The Gribin today. Great views of people on The Devil's Appendage

http://photos.imageevent.com/imagedude/devilsappendage/large/IMG_2496.JPG
 fenn123 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Iwan: Thinking of doing the Snowdon horseshoe at some point next week, starting with Crib Goch. Not done the Grib Goch Ridge before, any pointers?
 zukator 24 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike PeacocK:
Aber Falls: The Falls were NOT in condition as of 10.00 p.m. last night. Snow lying on the rock. We assumed there would be ice under the snow, but there wasn't! Nice walk in bright moonlight though.
 Adam Lincoln 24 Dec 2010
In reply to bryn:
> This was a pretty good day on skis on Wednesday:
> http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=473522183014&comments

Lovely. Where is this? Where did you walk up, ski down?


In reply to bryn: Hey Bryn, was your mate boarding? How did he find it getting up there in snowboarding boots?

Jamie
Amazing video by the way, the powder looks great up there
 Adam Lincoln 25 Dec 2010
Anyone been out today, still cold?
Wondering what The Screen, The Kitchen and The Appendix are looking like?
 JMarkW 25 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Sergeants gully in cyrn las today. Rubbish. Rotting ice and lots of water. Everything covered by powder. Temperature inversion.

Still Crib goch was nice
Cheers
Mark
petejh 25 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln: Screen will be def be climbable tmrw, The Devil's Kitchen looked climbable and in solid V shape on Wednesday so it'll be there tomorrow (in solid V shape), as will the Appendix (not in solid V shape). They'll all be melting out by Tuesday pm so give 'er while you can. BTW I was in the Pass today and it's a great alternative to Cwm Idwal for ice routes in these temps - lots and lots of steep to moderate ice to go at but like everywhere else at the moment all slightly rotten due to the rapidness of the temperature drop and lack of moisture. There could be a good window for toffee ice on Tuesday A.M. as it starts to melt out. Looking cold again by end of the week for high crags but not valleys.
 Adam Lincoln 25 Dec 2010
In reply to petejh:

Cheers Pete. Going to be Monday i get out. Fingers crossed!
 mynyddresident 25 Dec 2010
In reply to Adam Lincoln:

Devils kitchen very good today . Ice brittle and the climbing delicate but it's well featured . Gear a bit hmmm.....
 ian clarke 25 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: hi too all in the world of ukc. i was wondering about conditions on tryfan and the glyders. looking to base myself there next tuesday-friday.
 Fiskavaig 25 Dec 2010
In reply to Mark Westerman: Hi Mark, was up there yesterday, broke trail most the way, only to find sargents in poor condition, gave up and walked back out, wish you had asked about conditions, i could have saved you a slog!
 bryn 26 Dec 2010
In reply to Speedy_Gonzales:
> (In reply to bryn) Hey Bryn, was your mate boarding? How did he find it getting up there in snowboarding boots?
>
> Jamie

Think he said it was the hardest thing he had ever done!
 Joss 26 Dec 2010
In reply to ian clarke:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) hi too all in the world of ukc. i was wondering about conditions on tryfan and the glyders. looking to base myself there next tuesday-friday.

Tryfan needs heavy winter conditions for its winter routes to come into nick. However a lot of the gullies will go in lean conditions if you are prepared to do more rock scrambling and spiking up unfrozen turf (not advised from a conservation point of view) than snow and ice. Tryfan North Ridge, Bristly, False Gribin, Cneifion Arete and Gribin would all go in poor winter conditions as they are also scramble routes. Youve picked the wrong week to come up. A widespread thaw is expected from Tuesday until Thursday where theres a promise of temps dropping again. May be just what is needed. Snow conditions have been very powdery over the last week and it needs consolidation.
 JMarkW 26 Dec 2010
In reply to Fiskavaig:

at least you had the sense not to try it...
 gilchrist222 27 Dec 2010
In reply to Mark Westerman:
Does anyone know what conditions are like on Trinity Face or Black Ladders? Thinking of going down tomorrow but fearing it may have warmed up a bit.
In reply to Mike Peacock: Some rare Vyrnwy ice which has given me a few great days this winter.

pics here:
http://antony-mottershead.tumblr.com/
 Joss 27 Dec 2010
In reply to gilchrist222:
Trinity faces haven't seen much action recently:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/winter.html
Methinks the powder of last week will be getting slushy. Forecast is 4 degrees at 900m tommorrow and its raining there now.
 Mike Nolan 27 Dec 2010
In reply to Joss: Any idea when conditions will be decent for some Ice climbing in Cwm Idwal?
 TobyA 27 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Nolan:
> Any idea when conditions will be decent for some Ice climbing in Cwm Idwal?

About a week after the next prolonged frost starts!

Seriously, I imagine everything will fall down or melt out in the next few days so you just need to wait for the next cold period.
 jezb1 27 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: had stroll up easy gully in cneifion today. Very windy and corniced at the top. Had aimed to do the arete but it was black with only a little snow. Elsewhere snow is stripping back but there was still some ice and loads of snow around in the cwm. I reckon there's enough snow to survive the thaw but we shall see.
 WILLS 27 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Nolan: the ice climbs on sunday were formed but not fat. but they will slowly rot in this thaw. keep your eyes on the met office web site for snowdonia and once we've had a prolonged frost, as someone else has said, then i'd go give it a look. winter's not over yet. most of my climbing has always been done in jan-march.
 Mike Nolan 27 Dec 2010
In reply to WILLS: Thanks a lot. Are there any other areas which might com into good condition better or is Iswal as good as anywhere?

Thanks again
 Joss 27 Dec 2010
In reply to WILLS:

The MET office recently stopped their enhanced forecast for Snowdonia, but you can still get one from the Mountain Weather Service:

http://www.mwis.org.uk/sd.php

(It makes a great Bookmark page on the PC and is very easy to read. Its what's used by the Snowdonia wardens where they display the forecast)
 Andy Mountains 28 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Snowforecast.com's 9 day forecast suggests temps staying mild this week, then -2 to -7 temps from Saturday night until Monday night, then warming up again Tues & Wed next week.
A forecast that far in advance is always going to be somewhat hit & miss, but just thought I'd share it.
Zoot 28 Dec 2010
Am staying in Beddgelert over the New Year period, travelling over tomorrow. Can anyone give an update on the state of the roads in the area given the recent snow? Am particularly thinking of the route from Capel to Beddgelert over Pen-y-Gwryd...

Many thanks

Z
 jezb1 28 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: roads all clear.
Zoot 28 Dec 2010
In reply to jezb1:

Thanks for the quick reply. Shame the excellent recent conditions won't have lasted, but I am sure we will find something wintry to play on!
 mmd 28 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Friend who lives local tells me big thaw, all low snow gone.

Check out recent news though

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.com/

 al123 28 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: was out today and most of the low level snow has pretty much gone apart from on a few slopes. does anyone have any recommendations for anything climb-able tomorrow? its meant to be quite warm i know but im thinking an early start in a deep dark gully?? a long shot i know but fingers crossed....
cheers
 Rory Shaw 28 Dec 2010
In reply to mmd: Yeah big thaw going on. Warm and wet. Lots of snow gone - haven't been able to see the tops but I would imagine its dissapearing up there. Hopefully given the volume of snow we've had that there will be some sticking around in gullies which given a return to colder temps next week might give some sport... must be optimistic!
 carld 28 Dec 2010
In reply to al123: Doesn't seem to be any frost forecast til at least Thurs night, so would suspect poor snow conditions in gullies until then....but would mind being wrong!
In reply to Mike Peacock: I'm getting severely pissed off. 11 days off work and nothing but a thaw to look forward to. I'm praying it'll improve this weekend
 Andy Mountains 28 Dec 2010
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

I will be out on Friday, so will post on here what I find then.
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Nice one Andy
 Microwired22 29 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Conditions around around pen yr helgi du & carnedd llywelyn...

Taking my parents out in the hill, up past the resevoir (Ffynnon Llugwy Reservoir), up onto the ridge and left to carnedd llywelyn and possibly round and down the hole in the wall path...anyone now how snowy/ice it is? or has the majority of it dissapeared.They've not done much winter stuff, allthough imagine it's fairly clear..

Cheers.
 Andy Mountains 29 Dec 2010

Reports from yesterday (Tuesday 28th) by Darren Hollins on Idwal ice & the NE Spur of Y Garn on blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 al123 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: i was out today, went up easy wall gully which was quite soft snow but it was ok and then up tower slabs in cwm cneifion which was good, not too slushy on the top and it still bites well-ish. some icefalls around there too but looked abit wet.
 Andy Mountains 30 Dec 2010
In reply to al123:

Sounds like you had fun. Any photos?
 al123 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): yeah it was good, first winter climbing. yeah but they are quite poor quality, will put them in my gallery.
 jezb1 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: I went climbing in the nice dry slate quarries.....
 al123 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: anyone know what the conditions like are in the pass or up near the black ladders? i suspect the bladders will be good ish but some confirmation would be nice. cheers
 Joss 30 Dec 2010
In reply to al123:

Tower Slabs? The first pitch is an ice pitch! Cant have been much there today??
Heres a pic from a few weeks ago:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vyq-y8_abEg/TQAIfPgcYcI/AAAAAAAAAeg/maPV8sjD-Ps/s...

 LakesWinter 30 Dec 2010
In reply to al123: Well, let us know if you find anything doing beyond grade I and II plod routes!
 LakesWinter 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Good info, thanks, I think! How was the turf? Still frozen?
 Andy Mountains 30 Dec 2010
In reply to MattG:

Dunno, wasn't me who wrote that it was Darren Hollins.
He said that top 50m or so of gully the snow was in decent nick. I am vaguely toying with a mooch up to the Trinity Face tomorrow morning, in the (possibly vain) hope that the extra height might provide something in good condition.
Opinions???

 LakesWinter 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Well, purely from an armchair I'd think there will be lines complete from looking at the photos on various blogs like yours but unless the cloud breaks to give a frost they may well be very soggy
 al123 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Joss: im pretty sure it was tower slabs, seemed quite covered in deepish snow, and it definatly wasnt a gully so my guess was it was tower slabs. wasnt as much rock showing as there is in your pick but i think it was mostly covered in snow.
1philjones1 30 Dec 2010
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
Went over Crib Goch today and had a look at Trinity Face- the majority of the gully lines were complete and had a good amount of snow but it was quite soft. There were tracks up Left Hand to about half height and it looked like someone had gone up Little Gully. With a freeze they will be in good nick.
 stevez 30 Dec 2010
In reply to 1philjones1:

That's good to hear. Hoping to get up there on Sunday or Monday.
 Andy Mountains 30 Dec 2010
In reply to 1philjones1:
> (In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'))
> Went over Crib Goch today and had a look at Trinity Face- the majority of the gully lines were complete and had a good amount of snow but it was quite soft. There were tracks up Left Hand to about half height and it looked like someone had gone up Little Gully. With a freeze they will be in good nick.

Thanks for the info Phil, very handy. I have decided to postpone all mountain plans until Sunday now for exactly that reason. Hopefully with an early start on Sunday I may find better snow conditions.
 Cardi 30 Dec 2010
Yet another depressing massive thaw, these bloody warm fronts are no good for gentle thaw/freeze! Mountains look terribly black from Bangor
rriding 31 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Went up North East spur of Y Garn today and then walked over and down gribin ridge. Snow on tops is thin and patchy. Some lines are complete, but many are not. All snow was soft and turf sodden. It was 7 degrees on the top of Y Garn at mid day. I think you'd be clutching at straws doing any of the ice routes at moment and turf not frozen on buttresses.

hopefully the weekend will bring a change for the better.
 LakesWinter 31 Dec 2010
In reply to Cardi: It's the length of the thaw, 4 day thaws are generally not good news, for proper freeze thaw cycles you need a day or 2 of gentle thaw followed by a refreeze and more snow, a bit like last feb actually
 richard s 31 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: Went up the Gribin ridge today, across Glyder Fawr and down the Devil's Kitchen path. Most of the gully lines have snow, but a bit soft. Should be OK on Sunday if there's a good freeze on Saturday night.
 LakesWinter 31 Dec 2010
In reply to richard s: any photos around?
 Cadairmanuk 31 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Looking at the forcast it doesn't look like there is going to be a big freeze any time soon! -1 ish Saturday night!
 jezb1 31 Dec 2010
In reply to Mike Peacock: The weather here is very warm a the moment. Can't see the point of trudging up crap snow and soggy turf.
I had another good day on the slate instead.
 carld 01 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Just walked up Gribin, and down alongside Bristly Ridge. Grim day so couldn't see much. Snow thats left is soft but the colder temps forecast next couple days might firm up high gullies by Monday - what a difference a week makes!
 al123 01 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: has anyone got any recommendations on where to go tomorrow? was thinking of cwm lloer and carnedd dafydd or introductory gully and another route on the idwal slabs but im not sure if they will be iced up enough?. i only climb grade 2 winter, cheers.
rriding 01 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Has anyone been into Black ladders over the last couple of days? Was hoping some lines will still be in and nicely frozen by monday.
In reply to Mike Peacock: maybe a bit of a long shot, but is there any point in heading out to cadair idris tomorrow, or are we best sticking to the more conventional areas such as cwm cnefion and cwm lloer?
 JamesO!? 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
I was up Wednesday and Thursday. Everything had gone.
 rockcatch 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I went up D Gully on Y Garn with a couple of others today. The snow was in excellent condition for the line. It was quite busy when we were approaching, but by 11:30 we were the only group on the route.

Other friends were on Broad Gully (Pen yr Ole Wen), and mentioned that the rock step was quite tricky and mixed. From Y Garn, Cwm Cneifion seemed to have a few good snow lines.

There are a few photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/
 mmd 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Rockcatch. the sledging shots on your flicker site, where about in bangor is this ?
 richard s 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Climbed Banana Gully and A Gully on Y Garn today. Banana Gully in good condition. Top half of A Gully OK but there is a big crack in the cornice like a mini bergschrund and a "boulder" of snow which looks as if it might come down at any moment. Snow generally well consolidated. Photo posted on UKC.

Richard
 dgp 02 Jan 2011
In reply to rockcatch: Quite busy !.. I counted 16 people from top to bottom of Banana Gully when I reached the Cwm ?
 rockcatch 02 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd:

The sledging shots are by the stone circle overlooking the Menai Straits.
 Andy Mountains 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I was on A Gully, B Gully, C Gully & Banana Gully on Y Garn today. Info on blog: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 carld 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacockid anybody climb right hand trinity today? We did Clogwyn y Person Arete which was rock with dusting of powder but great route, taking in a Crib y Ddysgl ridge which had snowy patches. Any snow was generally bomber neve. Central Trinity was complete but couldn't see Right Hand properly, was thinking of doing it tomorrow.
 al123 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: went up high pasture and then into cwm cneifion and the snow and ice was all good. the ice on tower slabs was good too.
 earlsdonwhu 02 Jan 2011
In reply to carld: Perhaps you followed me up to the cwm.I saw a team head off that way about 10 am. I did Parsley Fern on bomber neve with a couple of icy steps. I expected to find buckets but the melt freeze cycle had basically got rid of them. An excellent little solo adventure. I expected to see more teams out.... well there were lots of trainer wearers coming up from Llanberis.
 earlsdonwhu 02 Jan 2011
In reply to rriding: I was on Crib Llem spur on Friday and the Ladders looked in uninspiring conditions. Few continuous snowy runnels and not much ice that looked worth investigating but I didn't get up close!
 stevez 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Guys, still after a partner for tomorrow if anyone is keen on doing some Grade IIIs on Trinity Face. I'll be at Pen y Pass from about 7 to 7.30am in a Grey Audi.

Steve
 Cardi 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Bomber neve on Trinity face, Right hand not really holding any snow.
 Fiskavaig 02 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Tower slabs in good nick today,good ice to start with, and good hard snow to finish on. Tower gully ice in very poor condition, bare in the middle section, but really good steep hard snow to finish on.
Dr.Strangeglove 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Broad Gully just complete yesterday with lovely snow, best cover if you went right at the first steepening rather than left.

dropped down into Cwm Glas Bach with the half thought of trying The Gully
but the second pitch did not look complete from below so went up crib lem which was good fun.
 rockcatch 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Went up Tower Gully with Twem today. The snow at the bottom and top was good, but there was an ice step in the middle which proved interesting and quite thin.

Looking across to Hidden Gully there appeared to be a couple of rocky bits which were sticking through.

Photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/
 jim jones 03 Jan 2011
In reply to anyone who's interested:
Black Ladders are incomplete but on the way, superb neve (in places!). Roll on Friday. Photo in my Gallery from yesterday;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=163070
 AB1965 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
Thanks for the beta. Was there today, first up there we thought until a guy came down D Gulley.
Did A,B and C. Finish direct ish on B - steep.

good fun all round nothing hard.
25+ in D gulley by the time we cam down -12 noon ish.
 carld 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Care and consideration needed at the moment in C gully on Y Garn for parties below. Lots of loose rock is easily dislodged in bare areas. A football sized rock narrowly missed us and hit someone below it the leg, they were ok. It was busy, but folk need to be mindful not to dislodge rocks. Great neve on the snowy sections and a nice top out.
 AB1965 03 Jan 2011
In reply to carld: I suggest the same can apply to B Gulley to. tough good fun a lot of care needed in several places.

 Hendrix 03 Jan 2011
In reply to carld:
Lots of loose rock is easily dislodged in bare areas. A football sized rock narrowly missed us and hit someone below it the leg, they were ok. It was busy, but folk need to be mindful not to dislodge rocks.

Why not just use common sense and climb a less crowded route!
 tom_holdsworth 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Hendrix:
> (In reply to carld)
> Lots of loose rock is easily dislodged in bare areas. A football sized rock narrowly missed us and hit someone below it the leg, they were ok. It was busy, but folk need to be mindful not to dislodge rocks.
>
> Why not just use common sense and climb a less crowded route!

I'm confused.. If it was so crowded why were YOU there!
 jamescronin 03 Jan 2011
In reply to carld:
Maybe the best thing would be not to stand under somebody climbing ice? I was under the impression this was a fairly standard thing not to do as whereever axes and crampons go debris follows!
 The Bad Cough 03 Jan 2011
In reply to jamescronin:
> (In reply to carld)
> Maybe the best thing would be not to stand under somebody climbing ice? I was under the impression this was a fairly standard thing not to do as whereever axes and crampons go debris follows!

James have you done the route, it is a snow gully. You obviously don't know the situation. Carl was in the gully belaying when a single person soloed past then a group of 5 including myself also soloed past them. the rock was dislodged by the first guy and we had time to move out of the fall line but the rock bounced just before my mate and caught him in the ankle. He was fine to let you all know.

 carld 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Hendrix: Was just trying to help people with info about conditions on a route which is what this thread is about...didn't really expect all the abuse. For the record there was no one else visible in the gully when we commenced the route.
 Simon Caldwell 03 Jan 2011
In reply to jamescronin:
> Maybe the best thing would be not to stand under somebody climbing ice? I was under the impression this was a fairly standard thing not to do

In an ideal world you're correct. But there are more winter climbers than ever, and at the moment the number of climbable routes is fairly small. If the alternatives were to climb behind someone else, or to go home without climbing, most people will do the former.
 geoff b 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Some routes in condition in the B.Ladders; Icefall Gully starting up the Left & finishing up the Right, E.Gully & E.Arete were both done today, turfy routes like Artic Fox (see Baggy's blog) & Topcat in. The turf was surprisingly well frozen.
 Hendrix 03 Jan 2011
In reply to tom_holdsworth:
I wasn't even aware I'd claimed to be there today. Just offering a sensible option when it's busy. Winter climbing is invariably hazardous, not to expect loose stuff coming down is unrealistic at best.
 stevez 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Was on Trinity Face today and there were loads if parties out. Routes getting done included:-

Little Gully
Great Gully
LH Trinity
Central Trinity
Ladies Gully
Cave Gully
 TobyA 03 Jan 2011
In reply to stevez:

> Little Gully
> Great Gully
> LH Trinity
> Central Trinity
> Ladies Gully
> Cave Gully

Did Central Trinity, along with many others! Wonderful neve for daggering up. I thought Ladies and Cave looked both hard and not actually very good as much appeared to be steep turf climbing with only a very light dusting of powder on top, but would be interested to hear how the teams on them found them.
 Tim Sparrow 03 Jan 2011
In reply to TobyA: Cave was a little lean, a bit of thin ice on the steep bit and a bit constricted as always but plenty of snow and/ or solid turf too. Don't know about Ladies but Little Gully was a bit snowier but again with a bit of ice for the crux. Good climbing on both!
 stevez 03 Jan 2011
In reply to TobyA:

Toby, Good to meet you today (although I didn't realise it was you at the time!). We had a good chat at the P1 belay on Central Trinity. I was soloing and you were 'jealous' of the Spantiks!!!
 stevez 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Tim Sparrow:

Tim, were you in Orange shell, and your partner in a black/dark jacket? If so, I may have some photos of you on Cave Gully. Email me your address and i'll send them.
rriding 03 Jan 2011
In reply to TobyA: We did ladies gully on Sunday and the crux pitch was just about bare of ice. Frozen turf and dry tooling, which probably added a grade. Good climbing though and a very enjoyable route over all.
 jaswa 03 Jan 2011
Climbed Tower slabs today - lovely condition. Good ice and good snow to finish.

If anyone comes across a pair of white and black rossignol gloves somewhere around the bottom of suicide wall area (not sure exactly where i dropped them) i'd love to get them back!
 Misha 03 Jan 2011
Here's what I can add without repeating what's been said already:

Hidden Gully on Clogwyn Ddu in easy condition for the grade. Good neve most of the way up with little bits of ice towards the top.

From a distance, it didn't look like there was any ice on P1 of Clogwyn LH. However later spoke to a team who said they had gone up the approach gully to have a look and thought the ice was thin and required mixed climbing up the rock to the right. They didn't fancy that, so abbed into the start of the last pitch and found good ice there.

Pretty much all the routes in Cwm Cneifion up to III are doable but some are thin in places (see comments re the ice step in Tower Gully - I managed to pass it in descent but the ice was quite brittle, with largish chunks falling off). From a distance, Clogwyn RH looked like turf/mixed climbing towards the bottom but snow and a bit of ice higher up.

Parsley Fern LH has a bit of ice (II/III depending on the line chosen), which was reasonable but dinnerplating in places. However the ice section is pretty short, so I'd say you get more bang for your buck (or axe placements for your approach slog) on Tower Slabs in Cwm Cneifion.

I thought C Gully on Y Garn merited a III due to the bit of mixed climbing that's referred to in Andy's blog. Wouldn't recommend it if you're looking for a II.
 Andy Mountains 03 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha:

Thanks for the email Misha & nice info. Your pics are on blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 Andy Mountains 03 Jan 2011
Some Black Ladders info on Huw Gilbert's blog: http://huwgilbert.blogspot.com/
 TobyA 03 Jan 2011
In reply to stevez:

> Toby, Good to meet you today (although I didn't realise it was you at the time!). We had a good chat at the P1 belay on Central Trinity. I was soloing and you were 'jealous' of the Spantiks!!!

Both me and my wife were moaning about cold toes today (I have some very old 'UK boots' that I leave in my parents' attic for when I'm over here) so I was VERY jealous of your Spantiks! Good to meet you too. As I was driving home thinking I would much rather be sleeping (4.45 alarm this morning) I was thinking what horrible hour you must have got up at to get up there?

 TobyA 03 Jan 2011
In reply to stevez: Looking at Baggy's blog, it appear one pair have claimed a new route today somewhere near Cave Gully. I was watching someone go up and down a bit there, so it might have been those guys. I think they were the ones who road their bikes in - smart idea!
 Misha 04 Jan 2011
Forgot to mention that I was told in V12 yesterday that they were expecting to receive copies of the new guide book this Tuesday. This must surely be one of the most eagerly awaited guide book to appear in recent years, replacing what must be one of the oldest, if not the oldest, guide books that hadn't yet been updated. They still had a copy of the (soon to be) old guide, in case anyone fancies a souvenir... Will it now be possible to find the face routes on the Ladders?! (Ok, the wiki topo is pretty good actually.)
 geoff b 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Conditions still good on Clogwyn y Garnedd/Trinity Face of Snowdon. Neve & turf are solid. 2 parties were headed to the Trinity Gullies but it was too claggy to see them! 4 of us were on the right hand side of the crag around Cave Gully; lots of routes to go at there. Freezing level is forecast to stay low enough for this area for the next couple of days.
 mmd 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Ref Misha and The Black Ladders and the new guide.

This is one of the best sections in the new guide, I have seen it, its so, so good. Now over 50 routes on ladders, full photo topos and fully researched. Everything you need to know.
 Andy Mountains 04 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd:

For sale on Saturday at V12
 TobyA 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Yesterday at the top of central Trinity: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=163163
 Migsy 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Did B & C Gullies on Y Garn today - good neve but both routes were lean around the chockstones (which made them all the more interesting), but as Misha said don't head up C if you're expecting a grade II snow plod.
 Andy Mountains 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Migsy:

Ah so you did get out then, nice one!
 Migsy 04 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Aye, I had the mountain to myself this morning.
 andyd1970 05 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha: Hi Misha was looking at doing C gully tomorrow, just wondering did you need Ice screws or did you do it with rock anchors and belays
Andy
 tompilgrem 05 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
i assume you can get it online from v12 aswell?
 carld 05 Jan 2011
In reply to andyd1970: In C gully, Y Garn on Monday, no useful ice, all rock anchors. Used one buried axe to back up a dodgy looking spike.
 andyd1970 05 Jan 2011
In reply to carld: Thanks carl just didn't want to lump lots of extra gear up with me. ~In Reply to the new winter guide out, I was wondering how many of the old Welsh Winter guides will be up for sale on Certain Websites(I might put mine on ASAP to beat the rush lol)
Andy
 sasmojo 05 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: All with the current forecast and what is left, will it be worth heading up this weekend for a play in some gullies and grade 4/5 terrain? Anything short (single pitch) in at 6/7?
 geoff b 05 Jan 2011
In reply to sasmojo:
Head for the right-hand side of Clogwyn y Garnedd on Snowdon; Couloir & Cave Gully area. Still lots of turfy IIIs-VIs in condition. It was in perfect nick yesterday & it stayed cold in 'Beris today. Should be cold enough again tomorrow, with probable fresh snow on the hills. Cwm Lloer might be a good bet too as it stays cold up there. B-Ladders are in great shape for turfy Vs & upwards (see some of the recent contributions for names of routes in condition still).
 sasmojo 05 Jan 2011
In reply to geoff b: Thanks Geoff, I plan to have a proper trawl through the thread Thursday and Friday.

Cheers,
Scott
Removed User 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
For anyone after an easy solo without bucket steps, Red Gully on Foel Goch was in fine condition this morning.
 Andy Mountains 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Davey & I were planning having a look at Cave Gully & Ladies Gully tomorrow, but the MWIS forecast is not at all promising:
http://www.mwis.org.uk/sd.php?fdate=110107
Don't like the sound of 'Constant whiteout for several hours'

May have to delay until Saturday.
OP Mike Peacock 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Removed Usersimongwyn: I thought that looked good driving back today.

I got out and did East Wall Gully, then had a play on some ice on Cneifion Stream.

East Wall Gully:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5330616644/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5330007399/sizes/l/

Mini igloos in Cwm Cneifion:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5330007663/sizes/l/

Clogwyn Du and the headwall:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5330007315/sizes/l/

Cwm Idwal:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5330007137/sizes/l/

stevo 30 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Hi there off to Snowdonia on sat looking at a nice grade l stroke easy 2 to solo any suggestions would be much appreciated had banana gully in mind obviously conditions permitting hoping for not a great dump of snow on Fri cos reading peoples comments conditions sound pretty good at the mo so any ideas of whats good at the mo would be great, thanks
 Andy Mountains 06 Jan 2011
In reply to stevo 30:

Steve. Likely candidates for grade I or easy II would be Central Trinity, Parsley Fern, Broad Gully, Banana Gully (as you say), Hidden Gully is easy at the moment (although quite a slog for such a short route)
stevo 30 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): thanks a lot 4 that to be honest central trinity Is no1 on my list at the mo just missed out on it last season but wasn't sure if I should tackle something a little easier cos its gonna be my first time out wi mi tools this season so what's central trinity like is there any major tricky bits to be aware of and what's the cornice like at the top thanks for ur information much appreciated
 Mike Nolan 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: What are the ice conditions like on The Devils Kitchen?
Thinking about climbing it this weekend, but I'm assuming it's all gone?

Thanks
Mike
In reply to Mike Nolan: I was up in Cwm Fynnon Loer today and Devil's Kitchen cliffs appeared to be virtually ice-free from my vantage point. Up in the cwm where I was there was a bit of ice, plenty of frozen turf, and solid snow all the way up. Gullies on Y Garn and Snowdon looked good. The Amphitheatre on Craig yr Ysfa might be worth a visit, or maybe even Great Gully.
 stevez 06 Jan 2011
In reply to stevo 30:

Did Central Trinity on Monday and it was bomber neve all the way. There was one small rock step at about half way that was a little tricky, and there was no cornice at the top.
stevo 30 06 Jan 2011
In reply to stevez: thanks for that what's it like in comparison to broad gully? Cheers
 Migsy 06 Jan 2011
In reply to stevo 30: I was on Central Trinity today - it was straight forward with good neve, an insignificant step over the chockstone, snow throughout the narrow section of the gully exit and no cornice. It did start snowing quite heavily whilst we were on the route and continued until we dropped beneath cloud so there could be a fair amount of fresh snow sitting on top of that neve by now.
 bowls 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan:

Looking at the forecasts (Met office and MWIS) it seems something of a mixed bag, which could either turn out very good, or very bad depending on exactly how conditions develop, where the snow falls and how high up the thaw gets.

I am still hopeful of having some great conditions on Sunday. Should be a good frost over sat night on top of the thaw activity plus new snow.

At the moment it looks promising, will be monitoring raintoday plus this site with much interest!
 Mike Nolan 06 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Do you think the first pitch of Pyramid Gully will look a bit better after the freeze this weekend?
 andyd1970 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Did Y Gully on y Garn yesterday and it was in condition in some parts but not others in the Gully but was in good nick on the higher slopes. I would say with the current conditions and the large chockstone in the middle of the Gully, which is not banked up high enough with snow to get over easilyay its was more like a Grade III. It did snow for a bit but it had stopped snowing when we came down devils kitchen and there was a lot of running water everywhere and it wasn't freezing.
 andyd1970 07 Jan 2011
In reply to andyd1970: I meant C Gully lol
OP Mike Peacock 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock) What are the ice conditions like on The Devils Kitchen?
> Thinking about climbing it this weekend, but I'm assuming it's all gone?
>
> Thanks
> Mike

See my photo from above: there looked to be no good ice anyway in the cwm yesterday.
 carld 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan: Freezing level forecast at 600-750 over sat and sun so it might get a little fatter. All next week looks warm though. Ice above first pitch on pyramid is apparently good and you could take the direct start to Eastern Gully to take in the grade III ice (thin but probably doable) and traverse right into Pyramid's 2nd pitch.
 Migsy 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Just back from Trinity Face with Rob - went with the intention of going for RH Trinity but the amount of fresh snow on the face compared to yesterday put us off (it looked like the wind was loading the gullies). We spoke to two lads who were debating whether or not to go for Central Trinity but were also a bit concerned about the conditions ... how did you get on?
 Andy Mountains 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Migsy:

I am really interested also to hear any reports from today on the Trinity Gullies. Thinking of heading there tomorrow & looks like I will be on my own, so the more info the better.
stevo 30 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): I'm heading there in the morn but still can't decide on central trinity or banana gully on y Garn think banana mite be safer option will see what reports come in 2nite!
Matt E 07 Jan 2011
Has there been a lot of snow over that way? Heading out in the morning to tromp up summat white and just trying to figure out the best options.
 Clay C 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Can't help on conditions today, but did Great Gully yesterday afternoon. A really good route, worth a few stars, but felt more like III (which i think the Rockfax guide gives it). Conditions on the whole were good, the snow was mostly well consolidated and the turf at the steeper sections was nicely frozen. There was, however, a lot of spindrift coming down the gully and settling in the less steep sections. Nothing to worry us at the time, but there might be a significant build up by now if weather has been similar to yesterday.
 sasmojo 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Heading up tonight.

Was anyone near Black Ladders or Cwn Lloer, any news on the Nameless Cwm?

How much snow?

Scott
 George Fisher 07 Jan 2011

Does anybody want to partner up for Sunday? I'm planning to drive up tomorrow night, sleep in the van and make an early-ish start.

Happy to do anything really, lead II , III, second IV, V, Gullies, Mixed, whatever.

Have rack, ropes, a few screws.
climberguy35 07 Jan 2011
Has anybody been in Cwm Cneifion today?

is it still climable in there?
 Jock 07 Jan 2011
I went up Broad Gully today - I think! There was very low visibility, and I don't know the cwm well (what could possibly go wrong?). Conditions were great - well consolidated neve, buckets all well filled out with snow and an inch or so of fresh powder over everything. The ice steps seemed fat enough, neve a bit thinner on the scree on the exit slopes. No fresh tracks, completely still, didn't see or hear another soul - lovely.
(popped out just above two little cairns - that was Broad Gully wasn't it??)
 Andy Mountains 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Considering heading down tomorrow. Anyone looking for a partner?
 Owain Llewelyn 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan: The first pitch of Pyramid Gully was perfectly do-able and pretty solid on Wednesday, the second pitch was ace too.
 Andy Mountains 07 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Sorted for a partner now.
In reply to All: Can anyone update on conditions today?

Thanks,

Matt
 George Fisher 08 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Yes please, I'm setting off now, I hope it's worth the 4 hour drive...
stevo 30 08 Jan 2011
In reply to Matt Bill Platypus: hi just got back from doing banana gully on y Garn and its in perfect nick at present absolutely bomber glad I made the trip cos the weather forecast 4 last couple of days nearly put me off but its not affected conditions there at all! Exit down devils kitchen is a bit tricky though I took a slide and had to arrest! Have fun!
OP Mike Peacock 08 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: I haven't been out today but did manage to pop into V12 to pick up the new guidebook. It's absolutely brilliant: clearly a lot of work has gone into it. Good stuff!
 Andy Mountains 08 Jan 2011

I've been out into Cwm Cneifion today. All the gullies are complete & Tower slabs in great nick.
I did:

East Wall Gully
Tower Gully
Easy Gully
Hidden Gully
Corner Gully
Tower Slabs

Will put lots of info & pics on blog later on.
 Scarab 08 Jan 2011
Wondering how next weekend will be, if the weather prediction is right will it be likely that any gullies will be in nick?
 spidey 08 Jan 2011
was out too today, did banana gully which was good, also c gully is good and well worth doing even tho there was a small section around half way which was fairly bare. anybody know how the guy who fell and got helicoptered off today is? saw the fall and it looked pretty bad ?
 Andy Mountains 08 Jan 2011
Cwm Ceifion report from today on blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/


 spidey 08 Jan 2011
my mistake, it was b gully the other route we did today. c gully looked pretty thin!
 Jon&anne-marie 08 Jan 2011
In reply to spidey: There were two accidents, one fatal, seperate post about it.
 philhilo 09 Jan 2011
Went up to the Ladders today. Looked at Gallipoli but it had no snow or neve. The ice was missing from pitch one and only a small amount remained on p2. Possibly in nick but it looked like grass to us. Decided to do Pyramid Gully instead which was fat and excellent all the way to the top.
 alec roberts 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
Thanks for the info. Andy - excellent blog pics !
 mmd 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Ref the ladders, most of it was in very good nick thurs fri and sat. Ref Gallipio, yep no ice, but its not an ice route, its a mixed route, so if ice is there it is easy than if it is mixed.

Turf was bomber on those days, lots of routes done on the crag over those 3 days, even a new line to 1 of the pitches on Jacobs Ladder. Flanders was climbed on saturday amongst others.
 philhilo 09 Jan 2011
In reply to MMD: Agreed re mixed lines and in condition. We thought this at the time and could see that the turf based lines would be in as they were frozen, just would be nice if it looked like a winter routes rather than grass! Jacobs Ladder would have required very long arms to do the ice on pitch 1 on Saturday! Nice looking potential groove line variant to right of pitch 2 on Pyramid Gully, has it been done?
 jandyd05 09 Jan 2011
In reply to spidey:
Y Garn C gully was a bit thin around the chockstones and as prev posted felt harder than a II (esp. solo with only 1 general mountaineering axe !) Having just seen the guy take a horrible fall didn't help much either :-O He is basically ok by the way, but a few broken bones - bumped into his mates later on in the pub, he was kept in Bangor overnight for observation.
 Andy Mountains 09 Jan 2011
Come on... whats been going on today??? I know lots of you have been out & about. Share!
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
Parsley fern LH, down PF. then up the first few pitches of sinister (getting late)

Teams on sinister gully, PF and fallen block crack in the cwm
 Migsy 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Took some friends into Cwm Clyd today for a requested trip up B Gully. Its still thin and justifies the top end of its grade. I saw a few go up D / Banana Gully and they reported good neve. It seemed to be thawing up there in which case watch the cornices above A & B gullies - when they come down you want to be elsewhere.
 bowls 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Did Broad Gully. Hard Neve and some ice. Little thin on some of the earlier steps which made it feel harder.

Found a black glove about half way up, if this is anyone's then give me a shout. Will put a separate post on Lost and Found btw
 NathanP 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Cwm Cneifon today. Good fat ice on Tower Slabs, all starts, with only a bit of dinner-plating at the top of the steeper start. Excellent Neve everywhere above the upper cwm.

Descended to Lln Cwn on hard neve - make sure your crampons and self arrest skills are sharp!

Nothing in in the kitchen at all, just lots of falling water and (occasionally) ice.
 George Fisher 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Trinity Face for me and a mate. First time i've climbed there. Got a bit delayed finding the start of the route in the clag and got beaten by a team of 3 to Trinity RH which was our route of choice.

So we did Central as we were too short on time to wait. Great neve all the way and no cornice, but sadly it was too easy for any real sense of achievement and we carried gear for no reason which was a bit annoying considering the 8 hours of driving involved for me.

Also realised I'm not very fit at present, need to get fit and aim for some IV's and V's I think.. hmmm
 Sparrowmonkey 09 Jan 2011
Cwm Cniefion today- Easy Route was in good nick, a little sugary towards the top and a small cornice. Hidden Gully was also in good nick too- though couldn't do it, suffering with poorly crampon
Gribin Ridge was fab- route finding okay and nice and frozen hard all the way down to where the steps begin.
 Fiskavaig 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Today, did B gully, Y garn, very thin over the chockstone for a couple of moves, would grade the move at top end grade 2 maybe 3. Some sections of light powder snow,thankfully not much.Very steep exit,on good hard snow,back down ridge into cwm, then a bimble up Banana gully. it seemed to be thawing slightly in sheltered places, but a bitter windchill kept exposed places froze.
 sasmojo 09 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Andy, for whatever reason. I guessed it was you out Saturday. Met in the Cwm and then chatted on Tower Slabs.

Everyone, Tower Slabs was in brilliant condition.

Scott
 Andy Mountains 10 Jan 2011
In reply to sasmojo:

Was good to meet you Scott.
Has anyone got any updates on today? I am just trying to decide where to head to tomorrow.
 monkeyboyraw 10 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Its been raining all day in Nant Peris with temp between 5-7c. Not looking to great from here, hope this helps.
Trinty was in good condition yesterday and not too busy considering, turf nicely frozen on the buttresses
 mr mills 10 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Was up in Cwm Idwal this morning, was absolutely bucketing down, very mild also so I would assume it was raining hard on the tops as well.
Has not stopped raining all day and still hammering down.
 dgp 10 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:
Forecast : Unsettled but mild with frequent outbreaks of rain, these heavy at times and accompanied by hill fog.
All the fun is over for now !

 Andy Mountains 10 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I might head out tommorow as I think it may well be the last chance to get a few gullies done (until conditions improve that is)
Looks like it is time to plan a trip or two to Scotland.
 Migsy 11 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Just back from Trinity Face with Rob - managed to sneak in Cave Gully and End Gully. Cave Gully crux was thinly iced but very enjoyable. Good neve (mostly) on End Gully.
 mr mills 11 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Quite warm in the Cwm today, Y Garn is totally stripped of snow except for Bananna Gulley which has snow down to Cwm Clyd !

Cwm Cneifion still holding quite a bit of snow but, no idea what state it`s in !
 Jock 11 Jan 2011
Very wintery feeling high in Cwm Glas today - mainly good neve & ice on Parsley LH, but a tad mushy from the rain in a few places. Despite looking a bit unprepossessing from the valley, its still pretty good up there.
 ruaidh 12 Jan 2011
In reply to Jock:

It wont be by the end of today *sniff*
 Mike Nolan 12 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh: This thread should be re named, with 'Lack of' in front of the current title.

What does this thaw hold in store for Winter climbing? Any ideas when we might see more snow and ice, or is it just a waiting game?

Also, which month is usually the best for conditions?

Mike
Bryan Benn 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan:
It certainly is a waiting game! And for my winter walking I love the sort of conditions on the ground on Snowdon that I think gives you climbers great conditions. What I call, "white ice", but I imagine there's a proper name for that!

I find this web site sort of useful for what is going to happen in the coming week. http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Snowdon/6day/top

Sometimes accurate, sometimes not. At the moment my interpretation is that there will be virtually no snow or ice left over the coming weekend. And with no snow forecast after that it's going to be quite a while before either you climbers or me get the conditions we need and love. Needs a good dump of snow, a partial thaw then freezing temps day and night. That all takes time to happen.

My best winter walking on Snowdon last winter was late Feb and early March.So don't despair. Yet! LOL!

 ruaidh 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Nolan:

The conditions thus far have been tremendous at times. Those of us who've caught the wave (e.g. first week in december, over the christmas holidays and even three days ago) have had a cracking N. Wales season so far.

The problem with Wales is that its a) low down, and b) close to the sea, so when the weather turns it all melts so quickly. Its impossible to predict when the thaw will come.

That said, I am still hopeful for at least one more good run, possibly starting 2-3 weeks from now...?

(btw, if anyone's interested, there are two places free on a trip to Cogne 3-8th feb. One team has pulled out due to personal circumstances. Flights/car/accomodation is all lined up. Separate thread will be going up later today.)
Simon Panton 13 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh: Looks like it's going cold after the weekend (possibly some light snow) then heavier snow high up the following weekend.

Despite the current warmth I still reckon the gullies will have retained much of the neve - it takes a lot to melt out that much old snow.
 Banned User 77 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: It was a balmy 11 degrees when I drove through Llanberis this morning. Looks like another week of this.
In reply to Simon Panton: re: the retention of snow, is this just conjecture, or fact? I'm out there tomorrow for the weekend, and would be incredibly made up if the snow gullies are holding on!?
 Banned User 77 13 Jan 2011
In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC): There was still some snow in the gullies yesterday but the cloud was down this morning.
 ruaidh 13 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:

No way. It'll ALL be gone in 72 hours.
 Cadairmanuk 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I guess we were spoilt last year and with the heavy dump of snow we had early and mid December I think we got lulled into hoping it was going to be snowy and cold!!!!

Ben
 Simon Caldwell 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:
> Despite the current warmth I still reckon the gullies will have retained much of the neve - it takes a lot to melt out that much old snow.

The BBC told me there were 4 inches of rain in North Wales yesterday with temperatures around 9C. Was it really that wet or was "Wales" just a generic term for "not London"?
OP Mike Peacock 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador: It was 9oC in Bangor at lunchtime today. Yesterday it seemed to rain heavily pretty much all day, and Capel Curig was mentioned on the news as receiving a lot.
 Banned User 77 13 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh: I don't think much will survive, some may.

We're now into typical snowdonia winter weather.

Toreador, yes it rained ALOT the last few days, rivers high, fields flooded.
Simon Panton 13 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Simon Panton) Looks like another week of this.

Not according to this forecast:

http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/7days.asp

And as for old snow melting quickly, until yesterday there were still piles of old snow lieing by the roadside near where I live, never mind in a sheltered gully at the top of a cold mountain!

What's with all the pessimism, one sniff of warm weather and everybody pitches in with the doom and gloom. Lighten up folks, it won't be long before we get to play in the white stuff again.

 Simon Caldwell 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:

Hopefully metcheck is right for once, and MWIS and the metoffice are wrong.
yr.no agrees with metcheck
 conorcussell 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: As long as it gets cold as soon as i am all done with exams then i dont mind! Need to use all the new screws i bought.

Can anyone recommend some good welsh V's, ice or mixed, i'm not bothered.
 Banned User 77 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: MWIS said a week or more of this only a few days ago, but next week looked a bit brighter. Still looking for a suitable date for a run at the winter paddy buckley after last months swim in deep powder foiled my first weak effort.
 Andy Mountains 13 Jan 2011
According to snowforecast.com its going to be cold up high from next monday night for a couple of days, but as to whether any snow will remain until then, there is only one way to find out!

I haven't been out this week due to all the rain (although I do now wish I had put up with a soaking on mon or tues as conditions were still good)

I will be out & about with my mate on saturday who is eager to play on a winter route or two, but there is more than a slight chance that we may well end up on a big boot multipitch in the rain.
Simon Panton 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador: I know metcheck is often a bit of a wild card, but xcweather gives the same forecast.

Let's face it they're all a bit random. The met office got it wrong plenty of times over the last month.

I tend to look at them all then focus upon the one that is closest to what I want to happen!
 Andy Mountains 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:

An optimist! I like it
P.S. Thanks for the free book, much appreciated.
Removed User 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:
Agreed. There have been some wildly inaccurate forecasts recently (last Thursday and Sunday for instance).
 mr mills 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:

A couple of guys headed up to Cwm Cneifion today, that`s optimism for you !
 Banned User 77 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: I think metcheck is pretty good, especially 2-3 days in advance. I use that, metoffice and mwis and normally 2 out of 3 tally so go with that.
 Andy Mountains 13 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:
> (In reply to Simon Panton)
>
> A couple of guys headed up to Cwm Cneifion today, that`s optimism for you !

Any idea what they found?
 mr mills 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Had a chat with them in the morning as they were heading up, we packed in around 4ish and did not see them coming back !
Compared to yesterday quite a lot of snow has been stripped from the Cwm !

Felt really warm in the the Cwm (Idwal) today, cross fingers for another freeze but, forecast does not look good for the the next week or longer !
 carld 13 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: http://www.weathercharts.org/wetterzentraleGFSforecast.htm

Try this one guys, it can give a good idea of what's going to happen in the week ahead, If the light blue isotherm is anywhere near the UK conditions are cold 'enough'. But like them all it can be completely wrong too!! Its predicting colder conditions from Monday.
 Simon Caldwell 14 Jan 2011
In reply to carld:

met office are now going with colder conditions too
 rockcatch 14 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

The Oggie Cams showed very little snow left on Y Garn this morning, and looking from Bangor the Carneddau were pretty bare. Looks like we will need to start again with the next cold spell.
 Simon Caldwell 14 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
off topic but I got my shiny bright new guidebook yesterday, and very excellent it is too (if slightly pricy). It'll give me something to do while sitting inside waiting for my knee to mend, as a change from watching the rain through the window.
And better still, I've retrospectively led my first grade V, courtesy of the upgrade of Clogwyn Du Left Hand
 Jon Ratcliffe 14 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: Metcheck feeding you're optimism again Si? (and I thought I was optimistic!)
 climbingronnie 16 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Went up into Cwm Cneifion yesterday (Sat) in the pissing rain and gale force winds- to quote the Met Office 'Difficult conditions for even the most experienced mountaineers' - not wrong! Did Easy Gully which is still complete, old snow but firm enough to require crampons. Went a little way up Hidden Gully to have a look but you could hear the water coming down under the old snow and further up looked wetter and leaner still - looking down from the top it was a water fall! Some ice still hanging in at the top of Clogwyn Left hand, snow patches in the cwm but only Easy Gully still complete.

We came down Y Gribin after getting knocked flat by 70mph winds on the top. Challenging, yes but damn good fun. Sometimes a little blind optimism makes for a grand day out!
Bryan Benn 17 Jan 2011
In reply to drumming_ronnie:

From what the BBC weather report said yesterday I think "pissing rain" was a typical British understatement! LOL! They reported 233mm of rain at Capel Curig in the last few days, mainly over the weekend. Strewth, that's more than 9 inches! What was it like wearing crampons on webbed feet Ronnie? LOL!
fritzmf 17 Jan 2011
In reply to drumming_ronnie: I was out saturday as well, forecast was pretty accurate. On Foel Goch, Moel Eilio ridge, we came across a random patch of snow, 6m by 6m, angle less than 20 degrees, which had slid/avalanched. Probably due to complete saturation and lubrication of the grass, reeds underneath, this went over a wee lip and down 50-60 feet, with some big blocks tumbling over 200ft. Not good, but just the sort of snow patch to entice walkers to play on, after the big melt. Worth thinking about.
 Ander 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock)
> off topic but I got my shiny bright new guidebook yesterday, and very excellent it is too (if slightly pricy)...


Pricey? I wouldn't call it that.

 mux 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Chummer & Panton:

youtube.com/watch?v=2hA-7aq6OXI&

I am afraid I maybe the cause of this warm spell ..I was sick during the big freeze and secretly wanted you all to die and for a tropical climate to engulf north Wales ...it seems I got some of my wishes but didn’t concentrate enough to get the whole hog roast so no charges of homicide for me. Thank Jebus

However now that I am on the mend and I have openly apologised (sorry) I now feel collectively we can turn things around.


so if everyone who has every contrubited to this thread can now repeat after me.

"cool frozen turf" "white frost rocks" and repeat "cool frozen turf" "white frost rocks"

brrr feels chilly already
 stevez 18 Jan 2011
In reply to mux:

I'd like to accept some responsibility too as I bought a brand new pair of axes, and some new screws. Such events in the past have always been immediately followed by turbo thaws!
 mux 18 Jan 2011
In reply to stevez: thanks for sharing Steve I know how hard it is ..now come into the circle and repeat after me. "cold frozen turf, white frosy rocks"
 iksander 18 Jan 2011
In reply to mux: I've got to take my share of the blame too. Between enforced bouts of pantomime, hosting inlaws and Christmas shopping I muttered dreadful wordless curses at the MWIS website and all those free of worldly cares who were out frolicking on the pristine white cliffs.

Sorry.

I've fashioned a silver foil helmet in an effort to accumulate enough orgone to stop the gulf stream forever... if only the voices would leave me in peace for a moment so I could concentrate...
Simon Panton 18 Jan 2011
In reply to mux: My windscreen was frozen solid this morning and the pools of water outside my house had a layer of ice on them.

Must have been all that "cold frozen turf, white frosy rocks" chanting I did last night! Here's hoping it works.
OP Mike Peacock 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Like Simon, my wind screen was rather icy this morning. At 500m there was slightly frozen turf and bits of ice forming. Not much, but it's a start!
 leeangell 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I spent the whole weekend in an increasingly contorted tent getting battered by wind and rain in Cwm Eigiau, its almost certainly going to freeze now im back in Somerset!
 Andy Mountains 18 Jan 2011

I've been out for a recce today. Will put info & pics on blog in a bit regarding Cwm Glas & Trinity Face.
2xw 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Thanks andy, although disapointing news. I have favourited your blog for future reference.

Having said that, I'm going to nip up anyway, if just for a wintery walk.
 mux 18 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): well feck me its working
 tompilgrem 19 Jan 2011
I know this is probably a bit early but what do you think will be in at the weekend? Looking for grade I/II gullies. Was thinking broad gully on cwm loer or pinnacle gully in cwm cneifon? Has anyone been up that way recently. Also foel goch/y garn? Cheers for any replies.
 ruaidh 19 Jan 2011
In reply to tompilgrem:

Spoke to Charlie Burbidge last night who was adamant that parsley fern will be in on Saturday. I can't see much in the way of gully build up by the weekend.
 ruaidh 19 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh:

and in fact, looking at the temps today and tomorrow, I'd be inclined to agree, although metoffice is predicting 5 degrees on Saturday
 Banned User 77 19 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh: There's very very little snow around at the moment, but the deeper gullies may have just held onto a line. It's almost snow free though now.
 Andy Mountains 19 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh:

No snow forecast this week. So can't see how it could be 'in by saturday'!
 Michael Ryan 19 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Yesterday: http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=164151
 Andy Mountains 19 Jan 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

A beautiful but sad view!
 Simon Caldwell 19 Jan 2011
In reply to tompilgrem:
> what do you think will be in at the weekend? Looking for grade I/II gullies.

Nothing.
 tompilgrem 19 Jan 2011
Ok well that doesnt sound too good! Are there any mixed/turfy lines in lower grades that might be do able? Probaly a long shot but desperate to get out!
 climbingronnie 19 Jan 2011
In reply to tompilgrem:
> pinnacle gully in cwm cneifon? Has anyone been up that way recently.

Nothing in Pinnacle gully. Easy Gully might still be there by the weekend.
 tompilgrem 19 Jan 2011
In reply to ruaidh: How much would it take for parsley fern to come in nic?
 mr mills 19 Jan 2011
In reply to tompilgrem:

I`ts been a loveley week, yes all the snow has gone for now so why not get yourself on some proper rock this weekend, it`s not that bad you know !

mills.
 Rory Shaw 19 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills: would have been great on slate or tremadog today - maybe gogath too!
OP Mike Peacock 19 Jan 2011
In reply to drumming_ronnie:
> (In reply to tompilgrem)
> [...]
>
> Nothing in Pinnacle gully. Easy Gully might still be there by the weekend.

Easy Gully in Cwm Cneifion was the only complete line visible in the entire Ogwen Valley today. I suppose Hidden Gully may still be complete too.

I'd be more inclined to follow the advice of Mr Mills!
 Misha 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Rory Shaw:
That's it - or Scotland. Perhaps some turf routes will be frozen as it's forecast to be quite cold over the next few nights but doubt they will look particularly wintery due to the lack of snow (although, as the new guide points out, they don't have to look wintery to be in - a matter of aesthetics rather than ethics).
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha:

Spot on. It was much much colder here in Deeside last night than expected. Forecast had said -1c it was actually -5c. So hopefully high up in those mountains it was considerably colder than the -2c that was forecast.
Think I might just head out tomorrow/weekend after all in search of rock hard turf.
 Banned User 77 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
> (In reply to Misha)
>
> Spot on. It was much much colder here in Deeside last night than expected. Forecast had said -1c it was actually -5c. So hopefully high up in those mountains it was considerably colder than the -2c that was forecast.
> Think I might just head out tomorrow/weekend after all in search of rock hard turf.

It doesn't work like that does it?

Thick frost in Nant today, stunning morning, but thought temps at periods like this were similar valley to summit?

Even my wind screen washer was frozen so it must have gone below -5 in Nant?
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:

You missed my point Iain. (I probably did not make it very well)
It is usually very mild here in Deeside as we have some sort of wierd subtropical climate here on the banks of the river Dee. When I drive down the A55 to the mountains it is always a good few degrees colder in Llanberis, Bethesda etc than here. So what I meant was if it was -5c here, it stands to reason (my reason anyway!) that it was colder down your way (high up or low down in valleys!)
 Banned User 77 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Ah OK..We're always a few degrees colder than Llanberis, but the Sun was spotted in Nant this week but on the posh side of the valley..

Just checked the met office and it was -6 last night in Capel.

Absolutely stunning day though.
 Simon Caldwell 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
MWIS talking about temperature inversions so possibly colder low down than high up
OP Mike Peacock 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: I was out at 500m on the moors beyond Betws today. Rock hard turf and a thick frost. It's been a beautiful week!
 geoff b 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
The turf (& what's left of the snow/ice) in the shade are rock hard at the mo'. There was no inversion on the tops today & it's very cold in the shade near the summits. Parsley Fern is not complete (in ref. to an earlier blog), all you'll do is wreck your crampons on the rocks half way up! Easy Gully in Cwm Cneifion is still there but not a lot else. It's not been cold enough for long enough for any sunstantial ice build up yet. High turfy routes on the B.Ladders may be in by the weekend. Sorry folks.
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011

Due to the lack of snow I'm going to head out tomorrow (fri) to look for a good mixed/turfy route to have a go at. Any recommendations?
What about Eastern Gully on The Ladders? Not done it before but heard it is fairly turfy. Will be soloing (unless anyone wants to hook up???) so only looking up to grade III.
Thoughts?
goosey gamble 20 Jan 2011
Going up Crib Goch at the weekend, anyone know if I'll need to take crampons or is it all thawed out now?
Removed User 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Not much at III on Black Ladders...
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Removed User:

Correct, which is why I asked about Eastern Gully which is a III...
 Rob Johnson 20 Jan 2011
There is not a lot of snow about at the moment but its very cold so the ground will be frozen. If there is still snow on the zig zags it will be bullet hard. Could be some hoar frost up there at the weekend, depends what happens over the next couple of nights.
 Joss 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
>
> Due to the lack of snow I'm going to head out tomorrow (fri) to look for a good mixed/turfy route to have a go at. Any recommendations?
> What about Eastern Gully on The Ladders? Not done it before but heard it is fairly turfy. Will be soloing (unless anyone wants to hook up???) so only looking up to grade III.
> Thoughts?

Have you done High Pasture Andy?

OP Mike Peacock 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss: Funnily enough I Facebooked him the suggestion! The original guide says something about "any snow just gets in the way".
 Rob Johnson 20 Jan 2011
A useful link for anyone heading out for a walk or a scramble and wondering if they will need crampons is this one: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/snowdonia/snowdonia_lat...

Click on the Ground Conditions link at the bottom right of the page. This records the findings of the National Park Wardens and along with the forecast itself will help to decide what you need to carry.
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011

That sounds like a good idea Mike & Joss. No I haven't done it. I could then then bomb over Glyder Fach, drop down & do Main Gully on there whic is a turf fest if bare. Interestingly the old guidebook & UKC both have Main Gully down as a grade II, but I notice the new guide gives it a grade III 3/4. Not sure why that would be. I have done it a couple of times before in decent snow & would say a II is correct. Although in tomorrows ever so lean conditions it may well be III!
 Banned User 77 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Rob Johnson: Wondered who provided that info...

I also keep an eye on http://www.hightrek.co.uk/snowdonia/snow.htm

goosey gamble 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Rob Johnson:

Cheers for the link mate, didn't know they had ground conditions on there too.
 ox 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains:Main Gully has alot of loose scree not much turf but can have some nice ice at like you said grade 2,the old book says East Gully is grade III/IV but this is the true start of Main Gully i think theres been debate on what the gully has been called in the past.
 sponger46 20 Jan 2011
Have a day off tomorrow from uni, seems easy gully is still complete-ish. any one seen what its like today? Cheers
 Andy Mountains 20 Jan 2011
In reply to ox:

Yep. The new guide gives Main Gully (with traverse start above alphabet slab) as a III 3/4, wheras old guide gives exact same route as a II. It also shows the lower 'direct' start as East Gully at something like IV as well. No big deal anyway, just an observation. (In what I personally rate as a fantastic new book, just for the record)
If you stay on the right hand side of the gully until past the chockstone/crux then keep to right hand ground it is good chunky turf. But I guess that is not actually climbing the gully proper is it!
 groovejunkie 20 Jan 2011
In reply to sponger46:

Took a walk up there on Tuesday, eaay route was complete (ish) but on the left hand side were a couple of holes with worringly large hollow areas underneath so it's difficult to know how consistent the thickness is. Hidden gully looked possible on the approach but unfortunately the middle is very thin and there's no snow towards the top at all.
 kiwi boy 20 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:Im off to N wales for some action on sat and sun. I have to ask with all this gloomy chat is there any need to take axes and crampons or should I take them on the off change especially with the cold temps. All the most rescent photos although great are rather depressing.
All opinions welcome
Andy
 Jock 21 Jan 2011
 jandyd05 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Hi I'd be really interested to know how you get on with High Pasture today and what the Glydr Fawr routes look like in general as I've an idea to go there tomorrow myself.
 Banned User 77 21 Jan 2011
In reply to kiwi boy: I don't know why its too gloomy, as people have saids its stunning here at the moment. Almost clear skies, no rain. I'd take this for January over the usual westerly front systems.
 Simon Caldwell 21 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:
A shame the weekend forecast is for a change to cloud and drizzle
 Banned User 77 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador: Doesn't look too bad. Bits of cloud, largely dry, odd spot of drizzle.

Maybe I've lived in Nant Peris too long, any winter day without strong winds and heavy rain is a bonus....
WeeMikey 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

hi guys - been readin the thread and can see its been freezin hard for days now up there so wunderin if the id-wall and oggie ice climbs are in. fancy havin a go at curtaun devil paster south gully ramp id-wall stream to-moro or sunday. thnks guys - mikey
 Simon Caldwell 21 Jan 2011
In reply to WeeMikey:
1/10
 Joss 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> A shame the weekend forecast is for a change to cloud and drizzle

Saturdays forecast is excellent. 70% cloud free summits.
 torquil 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

We went up to the Ladders today with the hope of getting on Top Cat (a turf line) and although the ground was frozen hard and icy on the walk-in it wasn't up at the crag, so we came home and played on Ibex instead.

There was a bit of new ice forming but nowhere near climbable.

lovely day for a walk though!
 jim jones 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to WeeMikey)
> 1/10
Blimey that's being generous!

 geoff b 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Ref Torq's comments above; same story in Cwm Glas; ice is beginning to form but a long way to go before anything's climbable. No continuous lines on neve in the upper cwm either I'm afraid.
 Andy Mountains 21 Jan 2011
There seems to be no sign of any snow forecast in the near future. It is really disappointing after the excellent start we had to the winter. I think we were all beginning to think we would have a repeat of last winter, but looks like that is not to be. Although we do have a couple of months of winter proper left & things could change, but every week like this last one is a week less even if/when things do improve. Fingers crossed for February folks.
Definitely time to start planning trips to Scotland though I think.
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

> Definitely time to start planning trips to Scotland though I think.

Done...this time next week I'll be in the Cairngorms

 Andy Mountains 21 Jan 2011
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Evenin Nic. Nice one matey, have a good time. Conditions in the gorms seem better than the west coast at present. Hopefully that will be the story when you are there.
I'm heading up for a few days in feb then in march myself, although I am still hopeful for Wales.....
 stevez 22 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

12 days to first trip this year to Scotland!
 Rob Johnson 22 Jan 2011
The grounds nice and cold so all we need is a smidging of snow and we will be away again, theres plenty of winter left.
OP Mike Peacock 22 Jan 2011
In reply to Rob Johnson: Indeed. Solid turf and ice forming today. I was on the Nantlle Ridge and wondered about a few places where I've not seen anything recorded.

Firstly, there are some obvious gullies in Cwm Clogwyn on Snowdon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5377943033/sizes/l/

Then the northern cwms on the Nantlle Ridge. Particularly Mynydd Drws-y-Coed. There were smears of ice forming today, but with its aspect and chossy nature there must be routes waiting for those who enjoy frozen plantlife?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5378544046/sizes/l/

Does anyone know if anything has ever been done on either?
 Banned User 77 22 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Cwm Clogywn is climbed, said to contain a number of great routes at around II. I've spoken with a few who have done a number of the easier lines.

Not sure re Nantlle, it's coastal setting and low altitude would mean it's rarely in condition in comparison to the nearby 3000ers. I've looked down a few of the obvious gullies when I've been there in the snow and its always looked nice.
OP Mike Peacock 22 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK: Thanks for that info Iain, very useful.
 Banned User 77 22 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Looking at them it must have ben up to II. There looks to be quite a few easy gully lines, maybe some of the ridges or steepe gullies are harder.

Today I ran a XC race in Telford, left Nant Peris as Sarah left for a stunning run in the Glyders, with inversions.
goosey gamble 23 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Did Crib Goch yesterday morning and it was dry as a bone. Some patches of old snow about but they were all off route. The Pyg track on the way down was a bit icy in places but nothing you couldn't walk around.
Weather was the best I'd ever seen up Snowdon-clear skies, nice breeze and the cloud stayed down over llanberis all day. Today looks like it might be a bit cloudier but underfoot conditions will stay the same.
 Simon Caldwell 23 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss:
> Saturdays forecast is excellent. 70% cloud free summits.

The detail wasn't as good, luckily it was wrong and I had a superb day. I'm supposed to be taking it easy after a recent knee op but accidentally walked up Carnedd y Filiast and Elidir Fawr, before wandering around for ages chasing Brocken Spectres (saw one but the cloud dispersed as I reached for the camera). Superb day.

Slightly better forecast today, but not as good in practice with lots of high cloud about.

Apparently Easy Gully was heaving yesterday, and Hidden Gully was climbed, but I thing those who went climbing at Tremadog, or Bus Stop Quarry, made the better choice.

It's only January, there's still a chance of some more winter!
 Joss 23 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:

MWIS Forecast came up with the goods once again and we enjoyed a great day on Sentries Ridge where it felt like spring.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2re0avr.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2e5sevk.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2937tpw.jpg

 Simon Caldwell 23 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss:
> MWIS Forecast came up with the goods once again

Presumably they updated their forecast after we left, as they were predicting patches of cloud down to 600m and drizzle for northern Welsh hills, none of which (fortunately) happened
 Banned User 77 23 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss: Lovely climb that, awesome situation and a great walk off.

Today was quite nice in the Carneddau, we ran up the East ridge of PYOW, then around to CL and then out to Pen yr Helgi Du and Pen Yr Lithrigg Wrach down to LlyN Cowlyd inflow and back to Ogwen via bridleways.

No cloud high up, some low down in the valley giving inversions, a bit cold on top. Can't complain about weekends like this in January. Plenty of time yet for winter stuff, substantial falls in Feb, March and April are quite common.
 Joss 24 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:
Ive got a feeling in my bones that the winter is over in Snowdonia, but I do hope that Im wrong.
 Solaris 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss:
Don't get down-hearted. Ian's right. I've climbed good neve in late April in Snowdonia.
 lithos 24 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:

we walked the Glyders on sunday, parked in NP and hitched up to PyP & walked back
good short day out and mostly very good vis, bloody cold wind on top though

was going to knock on the door but had to rush to V12 to spend money !

Cheers
 Andy Mountains 24 Jan 2011
Looking at the Winter Logbook on here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/winter.html Golden Girl Ali IV,5 (which climbs the side of the Tower at top of Tower Gully, Cwm Cneifion) was logged as having been climbed yesterday!
Was it anyone who looks at this thread? If so was it actually in winter condition? Would love to know.
 Ed Saint 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): We climbed Tower Gully on Saturday. There was surprisingly enjoyable (albeit thin) water ice all the way up to the upper basin. The occasional turf placement was required, but each was into well frozen/secure ground. A couple of the steps provided some fun steep moves, although these were avoidable. I couldn't see any ice or frosting on the Tower itself, although that was Saturday.

After descending Easy Gully (which was full of people) we also climbed Hidden Gully. This was mostly complete, bar one section where a pull over a bulge was required to avoid some broken/thin icicles.

We finished with an ascent of Cneifion Arete, which was cold but completely bare of snow/ice.

I look forward to returning when there's actually some snow!
 Misha 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
This morning's BBC monthly outlook (which I find tends to be reasonably accurate in terms of overall trends, i.e. colder/warmer and wetter/drier than average) isn't very promising. It's set to get colder for a few days from Wednesday but I doubt that will be enough to bring any of the ice into climable condition, though you never know with some of the higher up stuff (ref comment above re Tower Gully). Not much snow forecast either. Then getting warmer and wetter again... Of course it's only a long term forecast, so let's hope it's wrong!

Monday 24 January 2011 to Sunday 30 January 2011

Cold and cloudy
A mainly settled week as high pressure remains near the UK. Saying that though it will remain rather cloudy with a few bands of rain spreading south at the beginning of the week. Overnight frosts will remain a risk during the week and more so by the end of the week when the winds start coming off the cool continent, giving perhaps the odd snowflake for some of us in the east.

Monday 31 January 2011 to Sunday 6 February 2011

Change of the month, change in the weather?
The high pressure looks set to finally move east towards the continent during the week allowing the milder southwesterlies to begin to make an appearance again. This though will also bring back the wind and rain especially in the south west, where despite the milder air it may still feel rather cool. The transition can be a slow process though as we found out last month so it may take a few days before the milder air reaches all parts of the UK.

Monday 7 February 2011 to Sunday 20 February 2011

The westerlies stay in charge
The Atlantic seems set to stay in charge of our weather as we enter mid February keeping the weather fairly unsettled. Rainfall amounts and temperatures look set to be close too or just above average for the time of year, which will help keep the nightime frost at bay. However with the cold dense air never to far away in the continent we can't put away our winter coats just yet.


 Joss 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
> Looking at the Winter Logbook on here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/winter.html Golden Girl Ali IV,5 (which climbs the side of the Tower at top of Tower Gully, Cwm Cneifion) was logged as having been climbed yesterday!
> Was it anyone who looks at this thread? If so was it actually in winter condition? Would love to know.

Its pretty much all rock isnt it? Gets rimed up for a winter ascent.
 Andy Mountains 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Joss:

Exactly what I was thinking!
 jandyd05 24 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

I climbed Golden Girl Ali on Sat so I'm probably the culprit Tower gully leading up to it still had snow and the steps were ice. The main tower pitch was pretty much rock with some frozen turf. I reasoned it would be pretty much like that anyway though I suppose rime ice would have made it feel more wintry. Its not a recognised summer rock climb as far as I know.
 Andy Mountains 24 Jan 2011
In reply to jandyd05:

No its not a summer line. Nice one, I was interested to know thats all. I think we are all getting more & more desperate to get anything vaguely wintery done at all at the moment. (speaking personally)
 Banned User 77 25 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'): Classic day today. 7 Degrees. Cloud level 300m, heavy rain...This is proper winter weather...
OP Mike Peacock 25 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK: Indeed, back to business as usual after last week!

Still, it looks to be getting extremely cold from Thursday.
 mynyddresident 25 Jan 2011
So it wasn't in winter condition then.
 jandyd05 25 Jan 2011
to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):
Indeed - having missed the boat a bit so far I'm off to Scotland on Friday to start
catching up !
 Ewan Russell 26 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: just looked at the metoffice forecast for this weekend. People reckon it might be back in as it looks very cold?
 iksander 26 Jan 2011
In reply to The third: No snow about on the web cam, but cold enough for something this weekend hopefully...
 Ander 26 Jan 2011
In reply to The third:


My thoughts are- cold enough, but not enough precipitation.
Might be a thin smear of ice and some frozen turf. Great for IX cracks. Poor for IV gullies and buttresses.
littletryfan 26 Jan 2011
Snowdon summit approaches - a group have asked for some assistance on Snowdon on Saturday, but I haven't been to the summit in a while. Keen to avoid crossing hard snow patches in a work context (they're not winter prepared and I'm not WML). How are the zig zags? Approach from the south west? Especially given the cold/snow showers forecast coming in. May just sack it this time and go out for my own day out instead?!
 Cadairmanuk 26 Jan 2011
In reply to littletryfan:

Good question , I have a group of two wanting to do the North face of Tryfan onto Bristly along the Glyders and down the Devils kitchen !! They haven't got crampons or axes is it a gower at the moment???

Ben
 TobyA 26 Jan 2011
In reply to Cadairmanuk and littletryfan:

> Good question , I have a group of two wanting to do the North face of Tryfan onto Bristly along the Glyders and down the Devils kitchen !! They haven't got crampons or axes is it a gower at the moment???

I don't know if you guys mean a group of mates or a group of people who are paying you, but in either case these questions seem a bit worrying. Surely group leaders are meant to be able to work these things out themselves?! A bit surprised...
 Cadairmanuk 26 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

No just me and two friends , guess that answers my question to be honest , will monitor conditions and err on side of caution.

Ben
littletryfan 26 Jan 2011
In reply to TobyA: Appreciate that - me working this out for myself is a mixture of gut instinct, looking at reports, forecasts, assessing group, hunting out info and making a decision. Made it a while back now...I'd prefer to have my own day out and not worry about the group. Won't take it on anyway?! Done.
 Misha 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Turf routes on the Ladders etc may well be in good nick by the weekend but there won't be any snow by the looks of things. I guess a turf route is in as long as the turf is frozen but it would feel kind of weird climbing something that isn't ice when there's no snow around. Of course might be bits of ice high up, only one way to find out! Any thoughts on whether the rock is likely to rime up - is the air too dry?
 Migsy 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha: Can't report on the ladders I'm afraid though there was plenty of verglas on Y Gribin yesterday - starting from about 750m. A dusting of snow on top of Y Glyders though no evidence of rime build up.
 mynyddresident 27 Jan 2011
Turf bomber down to the water works but crags not rimed only lightly dusted. Not much snow and the lower parts of the crag predominantly black. Hugely windy and alot of windchill.
 Simon Caldwell 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha:
Isn't the current ethic that if the rock is black then it doesn't count as a winter ascent; but if it's covered in rime which you have to clean off (thus making it black again), then it is in condition?
 mwatson 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:oh god don't start this again.
 Simon Caldwell 27 Jan 2011
In reply to 06michwatsblue:
why not, it's something to do until it snows again
Simon Panton 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Misha: Check this:

http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/snowdon-webcam

I was sure it snowed last night on the peaks but couldn't tell this morning because the cloud was low. It has just cleared.

Turf has got to be bomber high up - it was frozen in my garden this morning!

High pressure looks stuck for the foreseeable/forecastable future too.

Hmm...
 Misha 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:
Yes for rock routes and I agree with that but I was talking about predominantly turf routes. What I meant was that it would be in acceptable winter nick if the turf is frozen but wouldn't feel particularly wintery, in my mind anyway.
 Banned User 77 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: There has been a slight fall the past few nights but only to give a very thin covering above 800m or so. Strangely the coastal side of elidir had snow, not the NP side.

The Carneddau looked to have more than the Glyders and Snowdon.
Simon Panton 27 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK: I've just caught a glimpse of the Carneddau as I was coming back from dinner and it looked significantly whiter than Snowdon.

A mate of mine who lives on the Bethesda side was getting very excited - but he has been stuck on an oil rig for two weeks until today.
OP Mike Peacock 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: Cwm Lloer was white today: but only a dusting, nothing substantial. Ice was forming in Idwal again, but it has a long way to go. Turf (and moss!) at 400m was rock solid. It's been bitterly cold with an icy wind.
 Andy Mountains 27 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

I'm going to head out tomorrow for a poke around High Pasture & Oblique Gully area of Glyder Fawr tomorrow to see what I find.
Glyderau 28 Jan 2011
Dear everybody...whilst all is quiet on the wintery front...the correct way to spell and refer to the range of mountains you are calling the/y Glyders is Y Glyderau. Pluralising a Welsh word with an English S rather than the Welsh AU is just plain ugly. For this reason we don't refer to Y Carneddau as the Carnedds. Using these names correctly shows a little bit of respect to the culture you're here to visit.

There are 3 instances of Glyderau in this thread and 29 instances of "glyders."

Hopefully one day "glyders" will be a term confined to the same band of backwards thinking, colonialist minded tools that still refer to Cwm Cneifion as "the nameless cwm", or Y Foel Goch as "the nameless peak."
 mmd 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Take a look at the topo, in the new book, its all white and when I climbed the route this year, there was little, if any turf, but there was rime and ice and stacks of rock.

I think you were wrong climbing bare rock with winter kit. It is not a turf route.
 mmd 28 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd:

I am making ref to Golden Girl Ali that was climbed last weekend
 mmd 28 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd:

Grow up petzl and this is why i hardly post on here.
 MJ 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

My Fathers first language is Welsh and has been climbing and walking in North Wales all his life. He quite hapilly uses the following words: -

Cloggy
Glyders
Carnedds
Snowdon



 mmd 28 Jan 2011
In reply to jandyd05:

Ref goldern girl ali and its ascent on sunday 23rd Jan check this chaps blog out, Glyder Fach main cliff , not far off the same height of Golden Girl

See for yourself the conditions

http://huwgilbert.blogspot.com/
 mmd 28 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd:

What conditions, you may ask ? that rock looks well white !!
 stevez 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

Unfortunately I have no choice but to use the anglicised terms, as I do not produce enough phlegm to be able to speak Welsh!
 mux 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: I am almost 98.5% sure that N Wales will become mint in the next week or so.

I am in scotland and then the wife is off to NZ for 2 week leaving me with child...

hands down it will be great.
OP Mike Peacock 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau: Do you say Everest or Chomolungma?

On the topic of Y Foel Goch however: I was under the impression it was simply named that to 'balance' out the range with regards to matching names.
 Simon Caldwell 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:
Alps, Alpes, or Alpen?
Dolomites, Dolomiti, or Dolomiten?
Germany or Deutschland?
etc

I'm English, when I talk or write English I use the English form.
If I speak to a French person, I use their language.
If I speak to a Welsh person, then I use English, as I can't speak Welsh. But the chances are that they can't either
 Dave Williams 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to Glyderau)
> Alps, Alpes, or Alpen?
> Dolomites, Dolomiti, or Dolomiten?
> Germany or Deutschland?
> etc
>
> I'm English, when I talk or write English I use the English form.
> If I speak to a French person, I use their language.
> If I speak to a Welsh person, then I use English, as I can't speak Welsh. But the chances are that they can't either

Oh aren't we clever? <yawn>

 groovy_nut 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Dave Williams:

So Dave are you brushing up on your Norwegian at present?
 malky_c 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau: Hmm...
I was brought up in the area and Welsh is my second language. I've always used a bizarre mixture of anglicised and Welsh names eg Glyders, Carneddau. One in the eye for consistency!
Simon Panton 28 Jan 2011
In reply to zzz: I've lived in North Wales for 15 years and did Welsh night classes for about 5 years, so whilst I would struggle to converse fluently in the language (I know, pathetic isn't it) I have a very good grasp of it and understand pretty much everything I hear in Welsh (and after a few drinks, expecially if I'm out in Caernarfon I do get confident enough to crack on in a kind of pigeon Welsh).

Anyway, the point I'm getting round to is that there don't appear to be any hard and fast rules with Welsh place names, at least not in day to day life - how many people say Caergybi for example? All I've ever heard is Holyhead.

You always hear Carneddau, but usually Glyders, regardless of whether the person is local or a visitor/incomer, a Welsh speaker or not. Maybe Glyderau is slightly more of a mouthful?

Whatever the truth I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of respect, it's just a strange quirk of language. - just like zzz said.

 Dave Williams 28 Jan 2011
In reply to groovy_nut:
> (In reply to Dave Williams)
>
> So Dave are you brushing up on your Norwegian at present?

Fair point, but I think the situation's a bit different if you're only briefly visiting a country on holiday. But if I lived in Norway, I definitely would make a real effort to learn how pronounce place and route names correctly (as well as learn the language, despite the fact that most (all?) can speak English.)

Perhaps I'm just too sensitive to things like Dolly-jelly or Doggy-loo, Pen-run-dewdrop, Blue-now-festering, Dollydoodles, Betsy Co-ed, Dennie-hole-in, Bet-gel-hurt, Oggie and even Ed-wall, all of which, I realise, basically result from pure laziness (and possibly ignorance) rather than any lack of respect. Glyders and Carnedds, in fact, pale into insignificance in comparison.

Here's something amusing that might even be true:

One day someone stopped his car and asked: 'Scuse me, how do I get to peely-weely?' (Pwllheli, I assumed). So I said, 'Just go up the road to Machynlleth, head for Dolgellau, over past Trawsfynydd, down through Penrhyndeudraeth, and Porthmadog, and then follow the signs, via Cricieth, you can't miss it'. He looked gravely at me for a long time before asking 'Is that the quickest way?' So I naturally replied 'Yes'. 'Damn!' he said, 'Isn't there a more pronounceable way?'

:¬)

Dave

 Simon Caldwell 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Dave Williams:
> I think the situation's a bit different if you're only briefly visiting a country on holiday. But if I lived in Norway, I definitely would make a real effort to learn how pronounce place and route names correctly

Agreed.

So since I only ever visit Wales when there for the odd weekend, I'll continue to us a random assortment of place and hill names. If I ever move there then I'll take evening classes in Welsh
 Cadairmanuk 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Hey enough about Welsh , whats the conditions like in northen Snowdonia ???

Diolch

Ben
 Andy Say 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Dave Williams:
You forgot Roody Doo
 Andy Mountains 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Im just home after climbing a frozen Idwal Stream & Oblique Gully on Glyder Fawr (which wenr at a far higher grade then the II 2/3 the guidebook gives it!!)
Will put on blog later.
 Ander 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

Do you talk about 'The Alps', or 'The Tatras' or, well you get the picture.

How do you pronounce the capital city of France? How do you describe a person or thing from that city? Or a person from Berlin?

You, my friend, are a tool.
OP Mike Peacock 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Cadairmanuk: Driving down the Ogwen Valley today and the watercourses all looked well frozen. That was timed rather well for the weekend!
 rockcatch 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Went for an afternoon walk up Y Garn via the Devils Kitchen. The Stream look well frozen. The Ramp did not look in condition, neither did the Curtain. The Screen looked thin in places. The turf was solid, but no need for crampons walking on the paths.

Photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/
 Andy Mountains 28 Jan 2011
The following is on my blog now: http://andymountains.blogspot.com/ with 10 photos.

Friday, 28 January 2011
Idwal Stream & Oblique Gully plus general conditions report

Having (obsessively) watched the forecasts for the last few days I decided that today might be a good day to head out & see what was frozen. My initial objectives for the day were 2 gully lines high on Glyder Fawr: High Pasture & Oblique Gully.
I had hoped that Introductory Gully up the right hand side of Idwal Slabs might be in condition, but it wasn't. However the closer I got to Idwal Stream the more climbeable it looked. And on close inspection it certainly was good to go. Plenty of fat ice, although tonnes of water also. I climbed the first 3 or so pitches until it levels out a bit. Well worthwhile & I imagine it will see plenty of ascents this weekend, although wether it will take decent ice screw placements is debateable!
I then traversed across left onto the flanks of Glyder Fawr to have a look at High Pasture. The turf on High Pasture was certainly rock hard, but the lack of any snow or ice whatsoever did not inspire me & I decided not to bother. Also from this point on the crag I could see some tempting looking ice over to the left in Oblique Gully, so that is where I headed. Now the new guidebook gives Oblique Gully a grade of II 2/3 although a sentence in the intro to Glyder Fawr does say something like 'grades could be higher in lean conditions'. Well never a truer sentence was written as it turns out!
Today Oblique Gully was a mix of ice smeared rock, rock hard turf & vegetation, and bare rock. I encountered the first major obstacle early on, it was a 9 foot high cave with blank ice smeared walls on either side. In fatter conditions this must bank out with snow, and the ice must fatten up to enable climbing, but in todays conditions it would have been more like grade V/VI terrain and I refrained. The only way up was to step out left, onto the exposed buttress which is made up of ice smeared slabe & frozen turf. In my estimation this went at around III/IV. Once back in the gully (which was no mean feat!) it was back to approx grade III terrain. Now the new guide says that when the gully splite into two, it is best to take the right hand option, which takes you up to a chimney which is 'sporty' in lean conditions. This was true. It certainly was sporty! In todays conditions I would certainly have to put Oblique Gully at the upper end of grade III, & more realistically III/IV. DO NOT GO THERE IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A GRADE II ROUTE AT THE MOMENT!

From what I saw today although the other Idwal ice routes are starting to form none looked complete. Also looking accross to Y Garn, there are no complete gully lines in any way, just a dusting of fresh snow. Also Cwm Cneifion is much the same story with Easy Route on the headwall (& possibly Corner Gully I/II) being the only snow lines. Tower Slabs has not formed.
 mr mills 28 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

As you rightly say Andy nothing in on Y Garn, only Idwal Stream (Nant Evan) looked in nick.
Saw 10 people heading up towards Hidden Gulley area!
Just posted a photo of Y Garn on my photos if anyone is interested!
Off to Tremadog tomorrow, amazing friction.
Have fun on the Ice/Turf this Weekend all,

mills.
OP Mike Peacock 29 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills: I've been out for a walk today. There's plenty of ice in all the streams, and it was -4oC leaving Ogwen today. Fantastic cloud inversion to the south, and I saw a lone snow bunting which was nice.

A couple of photos to give an idea of conditions:

Black Ladders:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5398052309/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Moonflower:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5398051439/sizes/l/
 mr mills 29 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Black Ladders looks really nice, went to Tremadog today, on the way up the llanberis pass there was ice virtually everywhere! Not seen that much ice for quite a while, Craig Ddu looked well good and all the way up the left hand side of the pass.
Cascade and Central Icefall was frozen but not complete!
On the way back from Tremadog the Mountain Rescue Tem were out in the pass, I saw lights about 200 mtrs up the pass from the Cromlech, there is a frozen stream there no idea what`s there?
Blue lights were on, hope nothing to serious!

mills.
 tobykeep 29 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:

Stuck walker, nothing serious.
 mmd 29 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Hi What camera do you use.
 mr mills 29 Jan 2011
In reply to tobykeep:

Cheers Toby, hope u`r keeping well m8
 psychomansam 29 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:

I was one of the ten, we were just getting a little winter skills practice moving together up the perfect snow gulley up the back of the nameless cwm.
 mr mills 29 Jan 2011
In reply to psychomansms!

Come on guys Cwm Cneifion aint that hard to remember, `nameless cwm` that implies the Cwm does not have a name ! It has a name, I do not like to harp on but, please try, even if you cannot say it you can write down the proper name ! rant over....

I have photos of all ten of you taken from our little shed as you reach Cwm Idwal, we are in the process of constructing the `patio` area as you reach the front of the Cwm, you possibly saw the work going on and hopefully we will be finished next week, weather permitting.





 wolf.leeb 29 Jan 2011
soloed the stream today.. better than expected.. good chewy ice and more than enough of it, just a tad wet here and there.. the ramp is possible though probably a bit lean higher up.. nothing else in as yet.. the sting is very close if you fancy a challenge tomorrow before the melt.

from driving up the llanberis pass, it doesnt look like anything will make it.

lladders looks good for mixed fun from the pic above..
 wolf.leeb 30 Jan 2011
sorry mr mills... ysgolion duon.. or is it asglodion duon?

 mr mills 30 Jan 2011
In reply to wolf.leeb:

yea right, i remember climbing scaffel trout/pike when i was a kid, would go nicely with sglodion yummy !

mills.
Glyderau 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Your attempt at a parallel between Glyderau and Everest is childish. Reminiscent of the attempts of an intellectual adolescent at best. Easily answered by saying YES...if I had chosen to move to live in the vicinity of Everest/Qomolangma (as you have chosen to live here) I would obviously make the effort to refer to it in the proper and correct way preferred by the locals...doing anything else would be disrespectful.

It's obvious from your posts on here that you see yourself as some sort of expert of the area. You are sadly missing out on a deep and rich dimension to the mountains of Eryri when you ignore its interwoven language and culture.

After following your posts on UKC with interest my impression of you is that you enjoy the aspect of the mountain environment which makes you feel superior to others. Of course you have no interest in the correct naming of mountains; it is a subject in which you will feel inferior to us horrible locals.

In reply to The rest of you:

Call it what you like...contribute to the death of a once rich culture. I will mourn it, and scoff at the next UKclimbing user who points out to the uninitiated that it is actually the PEAK district.

Stevez & Toreador: Racists...great!

Ander: Classic case of a half-wit who is too slow or lazy to construct a valid argument. Your poorly constructed points are covered in my reply to Mike Peacock.
Glyderau 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton:

I will be interested to hear then; why will you not be naming a section of the upcoming definitive winter guide "The Glyders?"
 MJ 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

As previously stated, my fathers first language is Welsh. He always uses the term "Glyders" to describe that particular part of Snownonia, likewise with "Carners" and all the rest of the terms you disagree with.

Eryri? To him the mountain is Snowdon. I've never heard him refer to it as anything else.

 MJ 30 Jan 2011
In reply to MJ:

All of my above comments obviously refer to the verbal as opposed to the written.
Glyderau 30 Jan 2011
In reply to MJ:

I should say: You're either talking out of your arse, or your Dad is.

Trying to be rational about it though: A single case of a first language Welsh speaker saying everything incorrectly does not a valid point make.
 MJ 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

"I should say: You're either talking out of your arse, or your Dad is"

Really, my Father is a native Welsh speaker. Are you trying to say either himself or me are lying?

"Trying to be rational about it though: A single case of a first language Welsh speaker saying everything incorrectly does not a valid point make"

I very much doubt it's a single case though. I'm not condoning the bastardisation of the Welsh language by any means - it's a truely beautiful language. However, everyone takes shortcuts in the use of their language - abbreviations, shortenings/simplifications of complex words etc.

I honestly think you would be better placed trying to correct basic pronuciation of Welsh words as opposed to being pedantic about what has been excepted as the norm by the local populus.

 stevez 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

I think you need to look up the definition of racist before you start throwing those sort of accusations around! Having been married to a welsh speaker for 9 years, and have a child taught through the medium of Welsh I think it would be hard to claim I have 'a hatred or intolerance to another race'.

I request you withdraw the comment.
 FrankBooth 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

Dawel i lawr rwan!
Os dwi'n siarad Cymraeg, dwi am defnyddio geiriau/enwau Cymraeg. Os dwi'n siarad Saesneg dwi am tieddu defnyddio cymysgedd, yn cynwys y fersiwn saesneg ambell tro.

Calm down now.
If I'm speaking Welsh I use the Welsh names. If I'm talking in English I'll tend to use a mix, including the Anglicised version on occasions.
 Pay Attention 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

Beth yw'r newyddion diweddaraf o amodau gaeafol yn snowdonia?

Dywedwyd wrthyf na fyddai unrhyw beth gwerth dringo y penwythnos hwn. Felly doeddwn i ddim yn gwneud y trefniadau angenrheidiol.


What is the latest news of winter conditions in snowdonia?

I was told that there wouldn't be anything worth climbing this weekend. So I didn't make the
necessary arrangements.
OP Mike Peacock 30 Jan 2011
In reply to mmd: It's a Lumix DMC-TZ65. A great little camera, and fairly indestructible.
 Andy Mountains 30 Jan 2011
Glyderau: An interesting subject you have brought up, but maybe another thread could be started on it?
-----------------------------------------------------
Looks like another mixed forecast for the upcoming week & next weekend, no real snow predicted & temps generally fairly mild again.
I am thinking of heading out tomorrow so if any of you have found anything interesting in condition over this weekend, please let me know.
Bryan Benn 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Pay attention:
Six day snow forecast web site is not good. Too much time above freezing for the summit of the highest mountain in the area. Including right through some of the nights.
 Simon Caldwell 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:
> Your attempt at a parallel between Glyderau and Everest is childish

Not as childish as your attempt to smear anyone who disagrees with you as being racist.

Very sad.
 zukator 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Simon Panton: Actually on Ynys Cybi (Holy Island) and Ynys Mon (Anglesey) quite a few people call it Caergybi. It refers to the Church of St.Cybi which is situated within the walls of the old Roman Fort (Caer).I wonder whether you refer to Felinheli or Port Dinorwic?
 mike_uk82 30 Jan 2011
I cant wait for some snow in Snowdonia if only to stop the bitching. Take it to another thread and leave this one alone.
OP Mike Peacock 30 Jan 2011
In reply to mike_uk82: I had a few hours out this morning and found some easy (and roadside) ice on the Nant Cywion. It's very broken but there are a few nice little falls. The ice was mostly very good, but was a bit sugary where it's been exposed to the running water.

Nant Cywion:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5400625597/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5400625823/sizes/l/

Rhaeadr Ogwen freezing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/5400626025/sizes/l/
 Cadairmanuk 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

Could anyone tell me if the stream is in condition at the back of Cwm Idwel?

Thanks

Ben
OP Mike Peacock 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Cadairmanuk: Idwal Stream? It was yesterday, and as it's higher than the Nant Cywion it must have seen a few ascents today.
bullandbladder 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Is that nationalistic clown still banging on about pronunciation? Did you not read the title? It says "WINTER CONDITIONS IN SNOWDONIA"! Get a life, start another thread and stop clogging an otherwise useful thread up with your drivel. Twunt.
 mr mills 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains (formerly 'trek'):

Hi Andy,

Has anybody climbed at Craig Ddu in the Llanberis Pass in the last couple of days ?

Passed by yesterday and today and the ice on the l/h side (Crown of Thorns) looks well formed !

mills.
 Andy Mountains 30 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:

Wish I knew mate! I'm getting no info at all (apart from an email off Mike today & one off James yesterday)
Either nobody is going out there or nobody wants to share.
Glyderau 30 Jan 2011
In reply to bullandbladder:

<banter>Piss off you shit punter who actually fell off Parsley Fern!</banter>

In all seriousness, this isn't nationalism, I'm adamantly anti-nationalist.

At the end of the day, it's just as annoying to the locals here as Sheffielders find the term "Peaks" annoying. It just has the unfortunate undertones of some English people's belief in their superiority...I mean, what exactly is wrong with me explaining that the majority of you are calling the place a wrong name? If I had said the same about the Peak district, the majority of you would be in my support!

Mr. Mills: The ice on the North side of the path is still sugary.
 TobyA 30 Jan 2011
,In reply to Glyderau: In that case can you tell me phonetically how to say Yr Wyddfa? I've always wanted to know so that I can use the Welsh name for it as well, but the couple of Welsh speakers I've asked didn't know Snowdon's name in Welsh off the tops of their head and because I couldn't remember how to spell it properly they couldn't read it for me.

I remember when living in Scotland, long conversations in the pub as to whether it was Corrie an t-"Schneck-da" or Corrie an t-"tray-ick" which some people claimed it should be pronounced as. Never really heard a definitive answer on that one either...
 mr mills 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

I think this pishing about place names on this thread should come to a stop now Glyderau!

No idea what or if pishing is a word but, come on drop it or start another thread on it, has no place on this thread, it`s getting boring now!

I`m fed up as you are with all this crap but rise above it, drop it fcuk to all who dont give a toss about our language and culture.

you have made your point and I for one agree with all you have said so lets all be friends yes

Can you put your profile up on the site please as I have not a clue as who you are, cheers.

Paid a cymeryd hyn yn beresenol ond dim pwint codi pais ar y we yma, mae angen mwy o pobol fel chdi i ddweud dy ddweud ond ar `thread` gwahanol ella ?

cymer ofal

mills.
 Jayboy 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: So? Any news on the Trinity Face?

> Paid a cymeryd hyn yn beresenol ond dim pwint codi pais ar y we yma, mae angen mwy o pobol fel chdi i ddweud dy ddweud ond ar `thread` gwahanol ella ?
>

I agree, talk about it elsewhere.
 Simon Caldwell 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyders:
> it's just as annoying to the locals here as Sheffielders find the term "Peaks" annoying

Other than Al Evans I don't think anybody cares.
I expect that just further proves my racism though.

In reply to bullandbladder:

Sadly these threads tend to wander off topic when there are no decent conditions to talk about
 JamesM 30 Jan 2011
Hi.

Is there any posibility of chopping this thread down or starting new as its massive and I check it on my phone every morning at present and it takes ages to load (just because of the number of posts).

Is it worth starting a "Winter Conditions in Snowdonia 2010/2011"?
 Simon Caldwell 30 Jan 2011
In reply to JamesM:
It'll automatically be closed when it reaches a certain size. Can't be far off now!
 monkeyboyraw 30 Jan 2011
In reply to mr mills:
I'm gonna have a good look tomorrow, along with the gullies and may be head for it mon eve or Tues am before it craps out again.
 Andy Mountains 30 Jan 2011

I will head out tomorrow (not sure where yet) & let you know what I find.
Anyone else out tomorrow??
 Fiskavaig 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Cadairmanuk: Yes Idwal stream is in fair condition, did it today, and then followed a trail of ice almost to the summit of Glyders,came down easy gully, tower slabs is forming, and most of tower gully was ice, one thin bit in middle, really good day.
Glyderau 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Fiskavaig: ARGH! (token non uppercase letters in my message)
 Banned User 77 30 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau: I don't see your point really.

The Carnedds makes me cringe, but the Glyders is common terminology...like Menai Bridge, Port Dinorwic (I'd personally use Felinheli 99% of the time) and many other English versions.

Just like the Moelwyns, the Rhinogs (though you hear Rhinogydd and Rhinogau, but I thought Rhinogydd was correct..)
 sutty 30 Jan 2011
In reply to IainRUK:

His comments on the nameless cwm got me as well, well written up in books for years then someone decides it should be Cwm Cneifon, that cannot be found on the map and you are stuffed. I tried to find it on the seeing the IOM thread to see where it was. nada on OS map.
 Banned User 77 30 Jan 2011
In reply to sutty: My understanding is similar, but that's just come from chats with people, nothing definitive, were the nameless cwm and Y foel Goch were named later because they were nameless. I'm not sure why Y Foel Goch was named so, but I've never considered calling it 'nameless peak' to be an insult to the language.
Glyderau 31 Jan 2011
Hello again everyone! Trust you've all had a pleasant evening. I think many of you are right and it's time to end the bitching about place names. I'm happy with the thought that this may have brought the issue to the attention of some who were ignorant but not belligerent towards the issue.

I'd like to apologise to Mike Peacock for making it personal, I appreciated the email and am sorry for picking you out.

I begrudgingly retract calling Toreador a racist - you would be correct in implying the majority of people who describe themselves as Welsh cannot speak Welsh. I would like to point out however that I've been referencing the area of Snowdonia, should you apply your comments to the residents of Snowdonia - you would be wrong to assert that there is a below average chance of them understanding Welsh.

TobyA: Try Yr = "Err" rolling the "R" and Wyddfa = "With" and the first two letters of "Va-gina"

Stevez: Your definition of racism is limited - If you'd have called me a sheep shagger it wouldn't have implied "intolerance" or "hatred", but it would have been racist. Ergo; implying that our language requires an abundance of phlegm is a racial slur. You are a dirty rotten racist, whether your wife speaks Welsh or not.

IanRUK: Answer me this: If "Carnedds" fell into common usage would it stop you cringing? No? Exactly. Menai Bridge is just an English name for Porthaewy, I don't have a problem with it myself. Just like I'm happy to refer to Snowdon rather than Yr Wyddfa on here.

Mr. Mills: Diolch am dy gymorth, ond sori! Dwi'n mwynhau'r anhysbysrwydd gormod ar hyn o bryd!

Ok this is for all the selfish me me me types who are only interested in their next hit to "our" precious blue and white stuff:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Not enough snow in the gullies. Ice everywhere, but looks a bit suspect from a distance. I haven't seen a single route that looks "in", but then I'm not one of these amoral mixed climbing types. I personally think we could be heading into a productive freeze thaw cycle over the next week. Either that or a complete slush festival.
Glyderau 31 Jan 2011
In reply to sutty:

Poucher wasn't the first person to document or name a feature of a mountain!

This naming game goes back centuries, not decades.
 TobyA 31 Jan 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

> Wyddfa = "With" and the first two letters of "Va-gina"

I'm definitely not ever going to forget it now!
 geoff b 31 Jan 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Routes in condition today;
In Cwm Idwal; Introductory Gully (R of the slabs) was done, the Stream(had multiple ascents), the Ramp was in, the Screen & the Cellar too. Others are not quite there yet. Routes up & left of the Idwal slabs (leading up to Cwm Cneifion) had someone on them too.
In Cwm Cneifion, Tower Slabs & Nameless Face had enough ice to go.
In the Pass, Face Route looked thick, but Crown of Thorns is thinner than a stickman on a diet! Routes on Diffwys Dwr (Craig y Rhaeader) coming along nicely.
Hope that helps someone but it may prove academic as there's a warm front coming over early tomorrow morning I believe!
 Dougie 31 Jan 2011
In reply to geoff b: Idwal stream was enjoyable today though missing the 'winter feel' with patches of green grass to the left and right of the ice - it felt a better winter route 1st December, although today was technically more fun when taking all the harder lines, particularly a vertical corner to the left of a water fall. To prove the lack of 'winter feel' point - I decended the Cneifon Arete, which had a tiny amount of frost in places but it felt like a summer scramble, albeit a bit colder with winter kit on. A great day of contrast! I hope I pronounced all my welsh words correctly from someone who appreciates friendly encouragement to learn a language rather than becoming worried about sometimes getting it wrong
 ruaidh 02 Feb 2011
In reply to Glyderau:

THIS IS A CONDITIONS THREAD. TAKE THE BANTER SOMEWHERE ELSE.

This excellent thread will reach a premature end because there's a load of stuff on it which has nothing to with conditions. The page has already has become unusable on a mobile device.
Gone for good 03 Feb 2011
In reply to ruaidh: Can someone please provide an update on local conditions in the Ogwen Valley or Snowdonia? Thinking of popping over Tryfan and the Glyders this Sunday.
 Migsy 03 Feb 2011
In reply to Gone for good: Dry and sunny on Tryfan this morning with moderate to strong winds. There was the odd smear of verglas above 800m though it was more like an autumn day than winter. Patches of old snow were visible in Cwm Cneifion and on Glyder Fawr.
Gone for good 03 Feb 2011
In reply to Migsy: Thanks for the info. I see that the BBC weather centre is forecasting heavy rain on Saturday and light rain on Sunday with average seasonal temperatures so looks good to go.
 Andy Mountains 03 Feb 2011
In reply to Gone for good:
> (In reply to Migsy) Thanks for the info. I see that the BBC weather centre is forecasting heavy rain on Saturday and light rain on Sunday with average seasonal temperatures so looks good to go.

Blasphemy! I am chanting a snow & ice spell as I type!
 Simon Caldwell 03 Feb 2011
In reply to Gone for good:

MWIS predicting gusts up to 100mph on Saturday, probably better Sunday but with a risk of the return of winds to 70mph.

It's on weekends like this that I don't mind being injured
Gone for good 04 Feb 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains: I wish that some of that snow further falling north would work its way down to Wales but I get the feeling that with March only 3 Weeks away we might have seen the last of the Winter apart from a few overnight frosts. Am I being too pessimistic?
 Simon Caldwell 04 Feb 2011
In reply to Gone for good:

Not sure about Wales, but the Lakes had an excellent March in about 2005 (or thereabouts), and the first snows didn't arrive until the last week of Feb.

So never say never.

But you're probably right
 James91 04 Feb 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock: Well there is a promising suggestion on the MWIS snowdonia forecast: "There is some evidence of much colder conditions returning to all mountains in a week or so." I am seriously hoping Mr. Weatherman is correct for once...
 JimmAwelon 06 Feb 2011
In reply to Gone for good: The weekend of the LLAMFF has certainly in the early years of teh festival been the spell when Northern Snowdonia is in good winter climbing condition. That's 18-20 March this year, I don't know if it used to be earlier in the season though? I was up on the Migneint Moors abobe B.FFest. earlier in the week and there was still a fair bit of ice around indicating low temps high up.
Bryan Benn 08 Feb 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Six day snow forecast indicates light snow and sub zero temps from Friday night and over the weekend.
 Andy Mountains 08 Feb 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

My non winter conditions report from today! http://andymountains.blogspot.com/
 Andy Mountains 09 Feb 2011
Forecast for next week is cold.
Simon Panton 10 Feb 2011
In reply to Andy Mountains: Freezing level 600m on Saturday, snowing on Sunday, Monday cold...

 Andy Mountains 10 Feb 2011
In reply to Mike Peacock:

With careful route choice Monday & Tuesday should be good to go.
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