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Simon Panton of Ground Up is currently choosing the cover for the new Llanberis Slate guidebook, due out later this year.
He needs your help!
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1815
In reply to UKC Gear: I'd plum for the 1st picture.
In reply to SGD: YES!! Get in. That's my photo - I'll slip you that fiver later..
In reply to SGD: me too. its a dramatic and very distinctive image.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Definitely think cover no:1 is by far the best. Says a lot about slate climbing, gothic, slightly menacing and downright awkward!
No:2 Too convoluted
No:3 You said it yourselves, far too conservative. Looks like a FRCC or old CC cover. Not a bad thing in itself, but a bit tired looking.
Definitely think cover no:1 is by far the best. Says a lot about slate climbing, gothic, slightly menacing and downright awkward!
No:2 Too convoluted
No:3 You said it yourselves, far too conservative. Looks like a FRCC or old CC cover. Not a bad thing in itself, but a bit tired looking.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
I like New Slatesman by Gareth Aston - don't take that personal Jack. I like the dynamics.
Yours is too gothic.
Cig Arete by Jethro Kiernan is a nice peaceful shot.
Mick
> (In reply to SGD) YES!! Get in. That's my photo - I'll slip you that fiver later..
I like New Slatesman by Gareth Aston - don't take that personal Jack. I like the dynamics.
Yours is too gothic.
Cig Arete by Jethro Kiernan is a nice peaceful shot.
Mick
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: ermmm.....ok...as long as that's all you try and slip me ;P
On a serious note I remember the 1st time I walked into the quarries and the immediate impression and feeling that I had and that picture, for me, captures the dark and impressive atomsphere of that 1st visit and yes it's a great shot.
On a serious note I remember the 1st time I walked into the quarries and the immediate impression and feeling that I had and that picture, for me, captures the dark and impressive atomsphere of that 1st visit and yes it's a great shot.
In reply to Morgan Woods: I like that shot too - and I like the blur actually - looks crazy, a bit like climbing in the quarries.
My shot was the last photo I ever took on slide. The day after that I sold my film camera on Ebay!
Jack
My shot was the last photo I ever took on slide. The day after that I sold my film camera on Ebay!
Jack
The first is best. The dark tones capture that slightly edgy atmosphere of the quarries.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I agree - very good dynamic shot..
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
> [...]
>
>
> I like New Slatesman by Gareth Aston - don't take that personal Jack. I like the dynamics.
>
>
> [...]
>
>
> I like New Slatesman by Gareth Aston - don't take that personal Jack. I like the dynamics.
>
>
I agree - very good dynamic shot..
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Plus it's a happy shot.
Why go goth? - Simon did that with his bouldering guidebook.
North Wales Bouldering - reviewed
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5
Commercially the second one makes a lot of sense PLUS doesn't the sun sometimes shine in North Wales?
Mick
Plus it's a happy shot.
Why go goth? - Simon did that with his bouldering guidebook.
North Wales Bouldering - reviewed
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5
Commercially the second one makes a lot of sense PLUS doesn't the sun sometimes shine in North Wales?
Mick
Number 1 for sure
In reply to Tom Briggs:
slatesman for me!
slatesman for me!
In reply to UKC Gear: No.1 - captures the darkness of the quarries nicely for me.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Number 1 by far the best.
Number 2 - I'm in the "hate it" for the blur effect. It looks tacky.
Number 3 is the safest option, but doesn't inspire me so much.
Number 1 by far the best.
Number 2 - I'm in the "hate it" for the blur effect. It looks tacky.
Number 3 is the safest option, but doesn't inspire me so much.
In reply to UKC Gear: The first one is best for the front cover by a fair margin. The second is a good photo, for sure, but it is a bit too gimicky for the front - if there wasn't the blur I don't think it wold even be in the running. The third is a bit old school, and doesn't really say that much about the uniqueness of the climbing medium I don't think.
The first is, at risk of sounding incredibly cliched, a bit gritty, edgy and dramatic.
Sam
The first is, at risk of sounding incredibly cliched, a bit gritty, edgy and dramatic.
Sam
In reply to UKC Gear: first one by a long margin
second horrible blur effect
third far too conservative.
second horrible blur effect
third far too conservative.
In reply to UKC Gear:
I would prefer something with stripy lycra tights, white cotton sport socks and a mullet hairdo, route immaterial
I would prefer something with stripy lycra tights, white cotton sport socks and a mullet hairdo, route immaterial
In reply to UKC Gear:
1 is my favourite although I'm sure its appeared elsewhere which is a shame as one of the joys of a new guide is new pictures.
2 I like but for the blurred hand
3 A bit dull, not at all inspiring.
I guess I lack a creative eye so find things like blurring effects on guide book covers a bit incongruous! For that reason, as well, I'd prefer a run out slate slab on the cover because that to me is (was!) what slate's about, something like that old picture of Trevor Hodgson mantling it out, off route on the Rainbow slab (it was on a DMM advert, a Paul Williams pic I think)
1 is my favourite although I'm sure its appeared elsewhere which is a shame as one of the joys of a new guide is new pictures.
2 I like but for the blurred hand
3 A bit dull, not at all inspiring.
I guess I lack a creative eye so find things like blurring effects on guide book covers a bit incongruous! For that reason, as well, I'd prefer a run out slate slab on the cover because that to me is (was!) what slate's about, something like that old picture of Trevor Hodgson mantling it out, off route on the Rainbow slab (it was on a DMM advert, a Paul Williams pic I think)
In reply to UKC Gear:
Of the three I like No. 1 the best.
No.2 is probably a good shot under the Photoshop work.
No.3 is a good shot but it looks dated and it could be of anywhere, it doesn't convey much of the feel of the place.
I'll also stick my neck out and say I'd have liked to see at least one good 'trad' shot.
jk
Of the three I like No. 1 the best.
No.2 is probably a good shot under the Photoshop work.
No.3 is a good shot but it looks dated and it could be of anywhere, it doesn't convey much of the feel of the place.
I'll also stick my neck out and say I'd have liked to see at least one good 'trad' shot.
jk
In reply to jkarran:
I'd vote for number 2 if the photoshop blur was removed. Plus I like the choice of name: New Slatesman seeing in a new era of slate climbing, nice cheeky parallel to New Statesman etc.
No. 3 is not a good choice imho, staid, conservative and not showcasing the drama of the quarries.
No. 1 is a cool shot, darkness won't jump off the shelves though? Maybe not a problem, does as someone else says reflect the dark mysteries of slate well!
I'd be psyched for a shot of one of the local wads strung out in a wacky position on The Quarryman, onsight, gear a distant memory etc etc. But for the sake of a photo, probably not worth it!
I'd vote for number 2 if the photoshop blur was removed. Plus I like the choice of name: New Slatesman seeing in a new era of slate climbing, nice cheeky parallel to New Statesman etc.
No. 3 is not a good choice imho, staid, conservative and not showcasing the drama of the quarries.
No. 1 is a cool shot, darkness won't jump off the shelves though? Maybe not a problem, does as someone else says reflect the dark mysteries of slate well!
I'd be psyched for a shot of one of the local wads strung out in a wacky position on The Quarryman, onsight, gear a distant memory etc etc. But for the sake of a photo, probably not worth it!
I like No 1 the best.
I have been lucky enough to see some pages from the new guide and it looks beautiful! Simon and team have worked incredibly hard on this and it shows. Can't wait for the final product!
I have been lucky enough to see some pages from the new guide and it looks beautiful! Simon and team have worked incredibly hard on this and it shows. Can't wait for the final product!
In reply to UKC Gear:
Number 2, Number 2!
1. Not such a fan of the colours as the spine doesn't seem to standout and the photo doesn't seem to have an edge.
2. The "red t-shirt for the photos" works and I like the cheesy 2 fast 2 furious effect.
3. BORING
Number 2, Number 2!
1. Not such a fan of the colours as the spine doesn't seem to standout and the photo doesn't seem to have an edge.
2. The "red t-shirt for the photos" works and I like the cheesy 2 fast 2 furious effect.
3. BORING
In reply to Karriless:
In retrospect I have to apologise to the 1 and 3 photographers for perhaps belittling what are still some very fine shots in their own right.
In retrospect I have to apologise to the 1 and 3 photographers for perhaps belittling what are still some very fine shots in their own right.
In reply to jkarran:
agreed....perhaps something long and mid grade like Colossus or Ride the Wild Surf
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> > I'll also stick my neck out and say I'd have liked to see at least one good 'trad' shot.
>
> jk
>
> > I'll also stick my neck out and say I'd have liked to see at least one good 'trad' shot.
>
> jk
agreed....perhaps something long and mid grade like Colossus or Ride the Wild Surf
In reply to UKC Gear:
Option 2b - That photo without the blurring. It doesn't work, and makes it look like he is wearing a superman cape
Option 2b - That photo without the blurring. It doesn't work, and makes it look like he is wearing a superman cape
In reply to Morgan Woods: Colossus has 13 bolts!
I like photo 1, but as said by others I'd like 2 if the blur was removed.
I like photo 1, but as said by others I'd like 2 if the blur was removed.
In reply to UKC Gear: photo 1 is best as it captures the spirit of slate better than any of the others. photo 2 is the exagerrated angle thing which im not keen on (there are no overhanging routes on slate) and photo 3 is a nice shot but a bit plain given slates character.
In reply to UKC Gear: I would be happy with number 1 or number 2. Although a distance shot of a long inspiring route on rainbow walls/slabs would also be good (although for different reasons)
In reply to John2: yeah, but its not exactly sport is it
In reply to UKC Gear: Cover 1 does it for me but it looks rather contrasty, but I am sure the original must be better than the web image.
In reply to nikinko:
No. 2 for sure.
Good photos that No's 1 and 3 are, they just look like any old guidebook cover which are instantly forgettable. No1 is too dark to be an attractive cover shot, and No3 is too inconsequential (very like an old FRCC cover as someone else said). I'd pick up No. 2 in a shop just to have a look see.
Genuinely, I like No.2 regardless as to dynamic effect. The slate at the base of the route looks just right (for a slate guide!) and the focus on the hand just works.
No. 2 for sure.
Good photos that No's 1 and 3 are, they just look like any old guidebook cover which are instantly forgettable. No1 is too dark to be an attractive cover shot, and No3 is too inconsequential (very like an old FRCC cover as someone else said). I'd pick up No. 2 in a shop just to have a look see.
Genuinely, I like No.2 regardless as to dynamic effect. The slate at the base of the route looks just right (for a slate guide!) and the focus on the hand just works.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Shot 1. Nice to see something shot on film for a change and easily the best photograph of the three. Goes some way to capturing the unique atmospheric experience of climbing in the slate quarries.
Shot 1. Nice to see something shot on film for a change and easily the best photograph of the three. Goes some way to capturing the unique atmospheric experience of climbing in the slate quarries.
In reply to John2:
oops...i just thought an E grade meant it was a trad route!
> (In reply to Morgan Woods) Colossus has 13 bolts!
>
>
oops...i just thought an E grade meant it was a trad route!
In reply to Morgan Woods: It's a historical thing - people in the UK didn't give sport routes French grades in those days.
In reply to Morgan Woods:
Colossus is not a sport route by any stretch.
> oops...i just thought an E grade meant it was a trad route!
Colossus is not a sport route by any stretch.
In reply to UKC Gear: Cover No.1. M
In reply to Martin Davies - KCLMC:
Number 1 without question. I can't stand the blur on 2 - its completely ruined the photo for me. 3 is just nothing special - a very old-skool guide cover as many have said, perfectly pleasant but nothing amazing.
AJM
Number 1 without question. I can't stand the blur on 2 - its completely ruined the photo for me. 3 is just nothing special - a very old-skool guide cover as many have said, perfectly pleasant but nothing amazing.
AJM
In reply to UKC Gear: I prefer number 2 - more obviously slate, interesting dynamic effect and a more eye-catching shot. Numbers 1 and 3, while both good shots, are less likely to make people pick the book up from the shelf.
In reply to Tyler:
This point has been discussed previously amongst the team working on the guide and there was some sympathy for putting an old school run out shot on the cover. My view is that a definitve guide should have a cover shot that defines the era, preferably in a reasonably cutting edge, inspiring fashion. See the front covers of the recent Gogarth North guide or the CC Llanberis guide for what I mean. When people pick those guides up in future years it should be obvious what was going on at that point in history.
Obviously the Rainbow Slab is the most impressive piece of rock in the quarries, but in historical terms it has had its day...unless of course somebody onsighted/flashed The Very Big and the Very Small (I'm guessing Ryan Pasquill might have wondered about the possibility of such an act?)
Within the main body of the guide we have given heavy coverage to the 80s golden age of slate, with numerous historical shots, including a few of Trev on the Rainbow in a pair of bright tights. We also have a series of excerpts from Martin Crook's dairies which document that whole era. History is important, but history is being made again in the new wave of developments that have swept through the quarries in recent years.
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
I'd prefer a run out slate slab on the cover because that to me is (was!) what slate's about, something like that old picture of Trevor Hodgson mantling it out, off route on the Rainbow slab (it was on a DMM advert, a Paul Williams pic I think)This point has been discussed previously amongst the team working on the guide and there was some sympathy for putting an old school run out shot on the cover. My view is that a definitve guide should have a cover shot that defines the era, preferably in a reasonably cutting edge, inspiring fashion. See the front covers of the recent Gogarth North guide or the CC Llanberis guide for what I mean. When people pick those guides up in future years it should be obvious what was going on at that point in history.
Obviously the Rainbow Slab is the most impressive piece of rock in the quarries, but in historical terms it has had its day...unless of course somebody onsighted/flashed The Very Big and the Very Small (I'm guessing Ryan Pasquill might have wondered about the possibility of such an act?)
Within the main body of the guide we have given heavy coverage to the 80s golden age of slate, with numerous historical shots, including a few of Trev on the Rainbow in a pair of bright tights. We also have a series of excerpts from Martin Crook's dairies which document that whole era. History is important, but history is being made again in the new wave of developments that have swept through the quarries in recent years.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Number 2 as it catches the attention and gets me psyched for slate, which is quite rare!
Number 2 as it catches the attention and gets me psyched for slate, which is quite rare!
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
If 3 is too boring (though bear in mind that most guides will be bought by mid-grade punters), then I'd go for 2. I find 1 too dark and gloomy to attract me to the guide and the quarries.
If 3 is too boring (though bear in mind that most guides will be bought by mid-grade punters), then I'd go for 2. I find 1 too dark and gloomy to attract me to the guide and the quarries.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Without reading into it very much the third one. I thought it less drab than the others. Some nice blue sky.
With reading into it a bit more then I think number 2. First one far too dark and plain. The problem with slate is that it's very grey indeed. The second one definitely needs the blur effect taking off it though. It's a great shot without it and the blur takes all the attention away from what the picture actually is. I just saw it and said "look at that crap blur" rather than "that's a nice snap".
Without reading into it very much the third one. I thought it less drab than the others. Some nice blue sky.
With reading into it a bit more then I think number 2. First one far too dark and plain. The problem with slate is that it's very grey indeed. The second one definitely needs the blur effect taking off it though. It's a great shot without it and the blur takes all the attention away from what the picture actually is. I just saw it and said "look at that crap blur" rather than "that's a nice snap".
In reply to Will Hunt:
And the angular blocks at the bottom capture the aesthetic of the quarries nicely.
And the angular blocks at the bottom capture the aesthetic of the quarries nicely.
Guidebook Cover #2 - New Slatesman voted here. Although I think 'Looning the tube' should be on the cover :P
In reply to UKC Gear:
I actually like no.3. I like the unfussy presentation. I think I would find No.2 irritating for the blur effect. No. 1 is good too.
I actually like no.3. I like the unfussy presentation. I think I would find No.2 irritating for the blur effect. No. 1 is good too.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Totally agree, I wasn't suggesting using one of these older pics (although looking at the old Yorkshire Lime and '86 Llanberis Guide I bet there are a few photographers who yearn for a return of lycra) but a contemporary photo of a run out slab would have got my vote but I guess the current fashion is for steeper and less run out so there probably aren't any such photos available.
Can't wait!
Again I agree, guide books are point in time capture of the scene as much as they are a historical document. All power to those at the cutting edge, now if only you could persuade a few of them to don some Troll Candyskins and Sportiva Megas for the photos, brown Prana pants and 5:10 pinks might look good but lack visual appeal on film!
> This point has been discussed previously amongst the team working on the guide and there was some sympathy for putting an old school run out shot on the cover. My view is that a definitive guide should have a cover shot that defines the era, preferably in a reasonably cutting edge, inspiring fashion.
Totally agree, I wasn't suggesting using one of these older pics (although looking at the old Yorkshire Lime and '86 Llanberis Guide I bet there are a few photographers who yearn for a return of lycra) but a contemporary photo of a run out slab would have got my vote but I guess the current fashion is for steeper and less run out so there probably aren't any such photos available.
> Within the main body of the guide we have given heavy coverage to the 80s golden age of slate, with numerous historical shots, including a few of Trev on the Rainbow in a pair of bright tights. We also have a series of excerpts from Martin Crook's dairies which document that whole era.
Can't wait!
> History is important, but history is being made again in the new wave of developments that have swept through the quarries in recent years.
Again I agree, guide books are point in time capture of the scene as much as they are a historical document. All power to those at the cutting edge, now if only you could persuade a few of them to don some Troll Candyskins and Sportiva Megas for the photos, brown Prana pants and 5:10 pinks might look good but lack visual appeal on film!
In reply to Simon Panton. If that is the case then what about Jethro's shot of 'Pulling my Daisy'?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=63331
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=63331
The problem is that No 1 actually makes slate look depressing and inaccessible. It doesn't exactly scream "come and climb here". At least both No's 2 and 3 make you want to climb there.
But then maybe I suffer from SAD and just like to see a little brightness in my guidebook covers
But then maybe I suffer from SAD and just like to see a little brightness in my guidebook covers
In reply to UKC Gear: one
In reply to UKC Gear:
I prefer the first one. Slate, for me, is all a bit mysterious and dark, so the photo fits.
I prefer the first one. Slate, for me, is all a bit mysterious and dark, so the photo fits.
In reply to UKC Gear: I like 3.
Tambourine Man every time. Just captures the atmosphere completely I think someone mentioned slipping a fiver near the top of the thread :P
In reply to UKC Gear: I would go for the first one
Not wishing to be awkward, but... I don't like any of them.
1 - Too dark.
2 - Hideous blur.
3 - Fusty and looks posed.
Who's got that cracking shot of someone with hair on The Very Big and the Very Small?
1 - Too dark.
2 - Hideous blur.
3 - Fusty and looks posed.
Who's got that cracking shot of someone with hair on The Very Big and the Very Small?
In reply to UKC Gear:
Get a grip! The most iconic images from the slate quarries involve "the Quarryman" or the Rainbow wall.
Get a grip! The most iconic images from the slate quarries involve "the Quarryman" or the Rainbow wall.
In reply to UKC Gear:
no.2 ... although I'd prefer it without the blur
no.2 ... although I'd prefer it without the blur
In reply to Henry Iddon:
It is, in fact there is a whole sequence of shots of Pete moving through the crux. This looked great together, but I felt that when split into individual images the sense of dynamic upward movement was partially lost. I asked Al the designer to try and amalgamate the images in a ghostly montage, but that didn't work out so the blurring idea was tried.
Perhaps we should try a non-blurred version? seems like plenty of people would like to see that.
It's interesting to see how much support there is for the Jack's gothic image. It's probably not very commercial, but I've always loved that picture, and as Adam Wainwright pointed out to me yesterday it would continue the theme of having him as the background belayer in Ground Up definitive guide cover shots.
Henry, maybe you should get down the quarries with your camera and try and snap a front cover shot - can't take that long to drive down from Blackpool, you could be here for early afternoon!
> (In reply to UKC Gear)
>
> Is the shot used in number available without the blur?
>
> Is the shot used in number available without the blur?
It is, in fact there is a whole sequence of shots of Pete moving through the crux. This looked great together, but I felt that when split into individual images the sense of dynamic upward movement was partially lost. I asked Al the designer to try and amalgamate the images in a ghostly montage, but that didn't work out so the blurring idea was tried.
Perhaps we should try a non-blurred version? seems like plenty of people would like to see that.
It's interesting to see how much support there is for the Jack's gothic image. It's probably not very commercial, but I've always loved that picture, and as Adam Wainwright pointed out to me yesterday it would continue the theme of having him as the background belayer in Ground Up definitive guide cover shots.
Henry, maybe you should get down the quarries with your camera and try and snap a front cover shot - can't take that long to drive down from Blackpool, you could be here for early afternoon!
In reply to UKC Gear: Fiend emailed me this morning and suggested this shot:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82351
It's not perfect, but I think it definitely has potential, particularly if we could get hold of other shots from the same photo shoot and stitch some more background on for the return flap.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=82351
It's not perfect, but I think it definitely has potential, particularly if we could get hold of other shots from the same photo shoot and stitch some more background on for the return flap.
In reply to UKC Gear: First one.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Of those three, prob #1. Blur is too horrible in #2; probably quite nice without, though it does remind me of euro-guide covers. A good and a bad thing.
Has this been used anywhere yet?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=8799
Of those three, prob #1. Blur is too horrible in #2; probably quite nice without, though it does remind me of euro-guide covers. A good and a bad thing.
Has this been used anywhere yet?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=8799
In reply to Simon Panton nr: good shot but I still prefer the 1st one, for me its the only one that really has the 'atmosphere'. I know its a bit dark and goth but it's slate??
In reply to UKC Gear:
Surely the front cover should be one of Costa Del Dali...no one climbs anywhere else!!!
(I like image 2 including the Blur, looks really dynamic and different)
Surely the front cover should be one of Costa Del Dali...no one climbs anywhere else!!!
(I like image 2 including the Blur, looks really dynamic and different)
In reply to UKC Gear: Why are guidebook covers always rubbish? I can't think of any guide book cover which are inspiring. They usually have much better photos inside.
And what is the criteria for a guidebook cover. Should it be a route that appeals to the masses, or one of the hardest routes, or a picture of an ascent done in the style of the day?
I actually don't like any of these pictures I'm afraid. There are loads of good slate photos on ukc.
And what is the criteria for a guidebook cover. Should it be a route that appeals to the masses, or one of the hardest routes, or a picture of an ascent done in the style of the day?
I actually don't like any of these pictures I'm afraid. There are loads of good slate photos on ukc.
In reply to Ackbar:
Assuming you are limiting yourself to UK with that statement off the top of my head I'd say the current and previoous Gogarth guides both have great cover shots, as do the current and previous Yorks Lime guides. The old mid Wales guide too.
Assuming you are limiting yourself to UK with that statement off the top of my head I'd say the current and previoous Gogarth guides both have great cover shots, as do the current and previous Yorks Lime guides. The old mid Wales guide too.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Of the three offered I think that would be by far the best choice. Apologies to Jack but the first one looks guaranteed to put people off slate and the third isn't at all typical of most of the routes.
To be honest this shot that Mick used http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=46929 sums up slate climbing to me better than any of those three. A grey and blustery but atmospheric day when slate's quick drying makes it the best choice by far. Admittedly it might also fall foul of the same criticism that I levelled at Jacks shot of not being inviting and friendly enough but I think it still gives a better feel for the place.
Iain
> (In reply to Henry Iddon)
> Perhaps we should try a non-blurred version? seems like plenty of people would like to see that.
> Perhaps we should try a non-blurred version? seems like plenty of people would like to see that.
Of the three offered I think that would be by far the best choice. Apologies to Jack but the first one looks guaranteed to put people off slate and the third isn't at all typical of most of the routes.
To be honest this shot that Mick used http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=46929 sums up slate climbing to me better than any of those three. A grey and blustery but atmospheric day when slate's quick drying makes it the best choice by far. Admittedly it might also fall foul of the same criticism that I levelled at Jacks shot of not being inviting and friendly enough but I think it still gives a better feel for the place.
Iain
In reply to Tyler: Not to mention the current and previous Cloggy guides.
In reply to Ackbar: Sorry that you don't like any of the pics; perhaps you could link to some examples of what you think would be better (I'm guessing that when you do you will realise how difficult it is to get the right image with all the ingredients).
The criteria (as I see it) for a definitive guide is described above. It would be different for a selected guide (more about a typical/inspiring image than anything representing the latest developments).
As for inspiring guidebook covers, how about these two:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=449
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1549
I find them both very inspiring, and for different reasons. One is the best E1 pitch in the Pass (how good is Superdirect!) and the other represents the modern development of Wen Zawn with the two key activists going for it on a gnarly E7. The background detail in both shots is spot on too, especially when you fold out the return flap. Of course that is just my opinion, and I'm biased.
The criteria (as I see it) for a definitive guide is described above. It would be different for a selected guide (more about a typical/inspiring image than anything representing the latest developments).
As for inspiring guidebook covers, how about these two:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=449
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1549
I find them both very inspiring, and for different reasons. One is the best E1 pitch in the Pass (how good is Superdirect!) and the other represents the modern development of Wen Zawn with the two key activists going for it on a gnarly E7. The background detail in both shots is spot on too, especially when you fold out the return flap. Of course that is just my opinion, and I'm biased.
In reply to IainWhitehouse: Ian, that is quite a strong, atmospheric shot, but it doesn't say anything about the latest phase of development in the quarries. Also, a very similar B/W image was used in the front of the previous guide.
I have a similarly framed shot of Leo Houlding onsighting My Halo (from Ray Wood) which we will be using inside the guide, but I wouldn't put something like that on the cover of a current definitive guide.
I have a similarly framed shot of Leo Houlding onsighting My Halo (from Ray Wood) which we will be using inside the guide, but I wouldn't put something like that on the cover of a current definitive guide.
In reply to UKC Gear:
For me, personally, I think probably none. Not being in anyway associated with latest developments on slate, number 1 means little to me. It is a cool shot though, however I don't immedisately associate the image with slate Number 2 - As you suggest: Love or hate. Personally hate. Cheesy shot. Number 3. Well I fear change, so this is the safe choice, but again doesn't personally remind me of anything I've done on slate nor inspire me.
I guess it depends who you are targetting. The few at the tip. Well perhaps 1. The youth - maybe 2. The masses - probably choose a low-mid E grade trad shot with a bit of grey in the back ground. As someone pointed out - I bet they are hard to come by.
I can't wait for the guide to come out though!
For me, personally, I think probably none. Not being in anyway associated with latest developments on slate, number 1 means little to me. It is a cool shot though, however I don't immedisately associate the image with slate Number 2 - As you suggest: Love or hate. Personally hate. Cheesy shot. Number 3. Well I fear change, so this is the safe choice, but again doesn't personally remind me of anything I've done on slate nor inspire me.
I guess it depends who you are targetting. The few at the tip. Well perhaps 1. The youth - maybe 2. The masses - probably choose a low-mid E grade trad shot with a bit of grey in the back ground. As someone pointed out - I bet they are hard to come by.
I can't wait for the guide to come out though!
In reply to Simon Panton nr: I love the Steve Mclure pic, the light is fantastic, so atmospheric, which for me sums up the slate quarries.
Unfortunately, these don't really say anything about recent developments but they are quite bright and inviting.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=70713
This one crops nicely to show the concentration on the climbers face (the cropped version's not been approved yet).
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=70714
Unfortunately, these don't really say anything about recent developments but they are quite bright and inviting.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=70713
This one crops nicely to show the concentration on the climbers face (the cropped version's not been approved yet).
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=70714
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53254
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=80644
O.k, so these two are maybe not perfect, but the shadows you get on slate pictures are great, so would be nice if you had a photo along those lines.
(actually it was harder than I thought to find a good photo)
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=53254
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=80644
O.k, so these two are maybe not perfect, but the shadows you get on slate pictures are great, so would be nice if you had a photo along those lines.
(actually it was harder than I thought to find a good photo)
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Granted. I conceded that it perhaps wasn't colourfull and inviting enough but shot1 is guilty of that and also fails to represent the newer developments in that it looks nails.
I've known quite a few people pick up old slate guides and put them down again because it 'all looked too hard'. I'm slightly worried that your shots help to maintain that impression when actually much of the recent development has been at very accessible grades on conventional slate slabs. Still, perhaps they will hit the aspirational slot.
I stand by my earlier assessment that a single 'still' from the second one is by far the best choice. I bet you a whole pound I'd sell more with that cover.
> (In reply to IainWhitehouse) but it doesn't say anything about the latest phase of development in the quarries.
Granted. I conceded that it perhaps wasn't colourfull and inviting enough but shot1 is guilty of that and also fails to represent the newer developments in that it looks nails.
I've known quite a few people pick up old slate guides and put them down again because it 'all looked too hard'. I'm slightly worried that your shots help to maintain that impression when actually much of the recent development has been at very accessible grades on conventional slate slabs. Still, perhaps they will hit the aspirational slot.
I stand by my earlier assessment that a single 'still' from the second one is by far the best choice. I bet you a whole pound I'd sell more with that cover.
In reply to ksjs: i was thinking a bit more about this and think none of the photos do justice to the scale of slate. its a cliche but i think the cover shot maybe has to be something epic on The Rainbow Slab. a variation of the photo on the page beside page 161 (theres no page number by the way before someone gets clever) of the current definitive guide: John Redhead precariously positioned and isolated in a sea of rock - pure slate.
something with the whole slab in view with somebody well above their gear could be perfect. another option might be something quirky, attainable yet still inspiring like Looning the Tube?
great to see the level of interest in slate shown by this thread
something with the whole slab in view with somebody well above their gear could be perfect. another option might be something quirky, attainable yet still inspiring like Looning the Tube?
great to see the level of interest in slate shown by this thread
In reply to ksjs: I was thinking about the looning area too, maybe something from just inside the tunnel entrance so it frames the shot? I haven't seen anything like this btw
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I see the point, but I wonder whether for most people the cutting edge is irrelevant? I don't know about the locals obviously, but I bet that formost people from elsewhere slate will always be more about poetry pink and the dervish than it will about new slatesman and tambourine man...
I like the Hogarth pic, I have to say, but I did think thecc llanberis guide, from Internet pics at least, is one of the least inspiring I've seen in a very very long time...
AIM
> My view is that a definitve guide should have a cover shot that defines the era, preferably in a reasonably cutting edge, inspiring fashion.
> Obviously the Rainbow Slab is the most impressive piece of rock in the quarries, but in historical terms it has had its day...
I see the point, but I wonder whether for most people the cutting edge is irrelevant? I don't know about the locals obviously, but I bet that formost people from elsewhere slate will always be more about poetry pink and the dervish than it will about new slatesman and tambourine man...
I like the Hogarth pic, I have to say, but I did think thecc llanberis guide, from Internet pics at least, is one of the least inspiring I've seen in a very very long time...
AIM
In reply to AJM:
Damned spellcheck... Gogarth obviously! And the llanberis comment was about the cover pic...
Damned spellcheck... Gogarth obviously! And the llanberis comment was about the cover pic...
In reply to UKC Gear: The pictures that are being suggested for the cover are nice enough.
But for me, I think that the cover of "Slate a climbers guide" just sums it up nicely. (also must have been cheaper than any photo )
But for me, I think that the cover of "Slate a climbers guide" just sums it up nicely. (also must have been cheaper than any photo )
In reply to ksjs:
On the subject of the scale of slate, and being lost in a 'sea of rock', I thought this shot recently added to the UKC galleries was excellent:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=113186
On the subject of the scale of slate, and being lost in a 'sea of rock', I thought this shot recently added to the UKC galleries was excellent:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=113186
In reply to Simon Panton nr: After giving more thought to the subject, I think number 2 captures the ethos of the new slate developments.
I a agree that the cover shot needs to reflect the modern style in the quarry's (desperate and well protected). Make sure you have a good full page shot of the dry tooling!
I a agree that the cover shot needs to reflect the modern style in the quarry's (desperate and well protected). Make sure you have a good full page shot of the dry tooling!
In reply to UKC Gear: No 1 FTW
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: New Slatesman gets my vote.
In reply to UKC Gear:
How about one of Ian's shots of Pete on the Quarryman? They are amazing.
Failing that New Slatesman without the smudge.
How about one of Ian's shots of Pete on the Quarryman? They are amazing.
Failing that New Slatesman without the smudge.
In reply to Rachael Barlow:
Isn't Pete already on the cover of the Pass guide? Do we want him on every welsh guide cover? (I'm sure you would)
Of the three, I like Jack's shot, but I think the contrast has been overdone and needs pulling back for print. In the second shot I'm not a fan of photoshopped blur, and its hard to tell how great the shot would be without it. In the third, I'm prefer blue skies to be matched with sunlit rock. If the rock is shaded by cloud the sky ends up overexposes and goes a bit lifeless. Its also impossible to assess critical sharpness at these sizes.
Isn't Pete already on the cover of the Pass guide? Do we want him on every welsh guide cover? (I'm sure you would)
Of the three, I like Jack's shot, but I think the contrast has been overdone and needs pulling back for print. In the second shot I'm not a fan of photoshopped blur, and its hard to tell how great the shot would be without it. In the third, I'm prefer blue skies to be matched with sunlit rock. If the rock is shaded by cloud the sky ends up overexposes and goes a bit lifeless. Its also impossible to assess critical sharpness at these sizes.
In reply to Rachael Barlow: I saw those Quarryman shots this morning - very good indeed! Initially I was keen to use one or perhaps even a sequence run inside the book, but thinking about it there is a historical angle (Pete did do the second 'full' ascent of the route), so it would qualify as front cover material.
Thanks to everybody for their response, most helpful. I've just tallied up the votes and they are as follows:
1. 32 votes
2. 24 votes (albeit many with a caveat that the blur is removed)
3. 2 votes
I've asked Al Williams (Ground Up designer) to produce a sans-blur version of 2; I'll post it up later today.
Thanks to everybody for their response, most helpful. I've just tallied up the votes and they are as follows:
1. 32 votes
2. 24 votes (albeit many with a caveat that the blur is removed)
3. 2 votes
I've asked Al Williams (Ground Up designer) to produce a sans-blur version of 2; I'll post it up later today.
In reply to Adam L: Yes Pete is also on the front cover of the Llanberis guide. But so what, he is one of the leading proponents of the new slate scene, only Caff is a contender as an equally important player.
As for sharpness, the third shot was never really a contender, more just a way of showing a different style. 1 is pretty grainy, but then I think that suits the moody nature of the image. 2 is crystal sharp.
As for sharpness, the third shot was never really a contender, more just a way of showing a different style. 1 is pretty grainy, but then I think that suits the moody nature of the image. 2 is crystal sharp.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I'm not knocking Pete but I don't think you should ignore the bigger picture. Guidebooks, especially definitive, have a lot more historical worth than magazines. I don't think the current series of Peak grit guides will feature the same climber on two covers, because it would suggest a pre-eminence in the scene.
Having said that I wouldn't base your choice too much on the feedback on here though, including mine (I'm sure you won't). Good art was never made by committee...
I'm not knocking Pete but I don't think you should ignore the bigger picture. Guidebooks, especially definitive, have a lot more historical worth than magazines. I don't think the current series of Peak grit guides will feature the same climber on two covers, because it would suggest a pre-eminence in the scene.
Having said that I wouldn't base your choice too much on the feedback on here though, including mine (I'm sure you won't). Good art was never made by committee...
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: this is a great shot, maybe just missing some sky?
fwiw i dont necessarily agree with the idea that the cover must reflect current developments; as has been pointed out, those who do not climb regularly on slate i.e. those whose purchase or decision to climb in the quarries might be affected by the cover (the cover will likely make little difference to locals or existing devotees, they will just buy the new guide anyway) will want to see something that is very definitely iconic slate: Rainbow Slab, Comes the Dervish or Looning the Tube etc.
perhaps a compromise (if those making the decision are heading towards something 'contemporary') is to have the likes of shot # 1 or 2 on the cover and a nice big fold out on the inside cover of someone strung out on The Rainbow Slab (like Groundup did with Cloggy on the inside of North Wales Rock iirc)?
fwiw i dont necessarily agree with the idea that the cover must reflect current developments; as has been pointed out, those who do not climb regularly on slate i.e. those whose purchase or decision to climb in the quarries might be affected by the cover (the cover will likely make little difference to locals or existing devotees, they will just buy the new guide anyway) will want to see something that is very definitely iconic slate: Rainbow Slab, Comes the Dervish or Looning the Tube etc.
perhaps a compromise (if those making the decision are heading towards something 'contemporary') is to have the likes of shot # 1 or 2 on the cover and a nice big fold out on the inside cover of someone strung out on The Rainbow Slab (like Groundup did with Cloggy on the inside of North Wales Rock iirc)?
In reply to Adam L: That particular suggestion of a pre-eminence in the scene would be largely correct though.
Peak grit guide cover shots seem to be chosen on a different criteria to the one I favour. They certainly make no attempt to represent cutting edge developments. Maybe that makes more commercial sense, but I prefer to see something that is both visually striking, inspiring and representative of that point in history.
It's a tall order, but it is possible - and I think Ray Wood's shot of The Mad Brown on the Gogarth North cover proved that.
As for listening to others, I think this thread has been a very useful process; I am genuineley surprised by the support for Jack's moody Tamborine Man shot. I find it heartening that people are receptive to the left field/non commercial approach. Whether or not I would have the balls to go ahead and use such a gothic image is something which I'll be pondering for some time yet.
Peak grit guide cover shots seem to be chosen on a different criteria to the one I favour. They certainly make no attempt to represent cutting edge developments. Maybe that makes more commercial sense, but I prefer to see something that is both visually striking, inspiring and representative of that point in history.
It's a tall order, but it is possible - and I think Ray Wood's shot of The Mad Brown on the Gogarth North cover proved that.
As for listening to others, I think this thread has been a very useful process; I am genuineley surprised by the support for Jack's moody Tamborine Man shot. I find it heartening that people are receptive to the left field/non commercial approach. Whether or not I would have the balls to go ahead and use such a gothic image is something which I'll be pondering for some time yet.
In reply to ksjs: My thinking is that we put a low grade contemporary route on the inside cover spread and a classic Rainbow slab shot on the inside back cover spread. That way, somebody picking up the guide will get a sense of all (okay, most) aspects of the Slate experience and the unique landscape.
We did a similar thing with the Gogarth North guide - hardcore E7 on front, but a classic old school HVS bathed in sunshine on the inside cover spread.
We did a similar thing with the Gogarth North guide - hardcore E7 on front, but a classic old school HVS bathed in sunshine on the inside cover spread.
number 1 out of those, but ... http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=90621 would be awesome!
In reply to adamki:
Er, except the landscape format makes it impossible to use - unless you have the picture wrapped right round the guide, with most of the Llyn on the back cover.
Er, except the landscape format makes it impossible to use - unless you have the picture wrapped right round the guide, with most of the Llyn on the back cover.
In reply to UKC Gear: Definatly the first picture.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I agree with your argument, but The Mad Brown shot hardly follows it. I think its a fantastic choice for the cover but hardly current, is it ten years old now? A shot of the Belgian's casual repeat would be more representative of this point in history, or a more recent route.
I agree with your argument, but The Mad Brown shot hardly follows it. I think its a fantastic choice for the cover but hardly current, is it ten years old now? A shot of the Belgian's casual repeat would be more representative of this point in history, or a more recent route.
In reply to Adam L: It may not be 2008 current, but it absolutely epitomizes the new wave of Gogarth routes - remember I was attempting to capture the spirit of a 20 year period (the last CC guide was released in 1990). Most of the cutting edge developments happened in the first 10 years of that period (i.e. the 90s).
And anyway, none of the pics of the Belgians were even in the same league as that image.
The slate scene is different, all of the exciting developments since the last guide have happened in the last 2 years.
And anyway, none of the pics of the Belgians were even in the same league as that image.
The slate scene is different, all of the exciting developments since the last guide have happened in the last 2 years.
In reply to Simon Panton nr: number 1
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
I was just thinking "great photo, and would work really well as a wraparound cover in that sort of innovative, Ground-Up style"
The fear/concentration in the guys stare gives you a great feel for nature of the climbing (OK there's a bolt in the background, and his t-shirt is the same colour as the lake, but hey that's what photoshop is for
> (In reply to adamki)
>
> Er, except the landscape format makes it impossible to use - unless you have the picture wrapped right round the guide, with most of the Llyn on the back cover.
>
> Er, except the landscape format makes it impossible to use - unless you have the picture wrapped right round the guide, with most of the Llyn on the back cover.
I was just thinking "great photo, and would work really well as a wraparound cover in that sort of innovative, Ground-Up style"
The fear/concentration in the guys stare gives you a great feel for nature of the climbing (OK there's a bolt in the background, and his t-shirt is the same colour as the lake, but hey that's what photoshop is for
In reply to UKC Gear: No 3 for me
In reply to UKC Gear: number 1, but you can't please everyone!
In reply to UKC Gear:
Another vote for number 1 here. I love the darkness and the atmosphere in the picture.
Another vote for number 1 here. I love the darkness and the atmosphere in the picture.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Another vote for number 1.
(But may reconsider if I could see a 2 without the blur)
Nick
Another vote for number 1.
(But may reconsider if I could see a 2 without the blur)
Nick
If I'm Honest I'm not that keen on any.
What about Ales Messengers shot of the Dervish that was on the cover of Summit 49 or 50? That's a belter.
What about Ales Messengers shot of the Dervish that was on the cover of Summit 49 or 50? That's a belter.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I agree with you. It would be absolutely stunning as a wraparound; and that would look stylish and a bit different too.
I agree with you. It would be absolutely stunning as a wraparound; and that would look stylish and a bit different too.
In reply to UKC Gear: the cig arete pic is defo the best bet for the front cover
In reply to UKC Gear: Al has produced another couple of options:
The New Slatesman shot 'sans blur' as requested, plus an entirely new one from Ian Parnell of The Quarryman groove pitch.
See them here:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=234
and larger versions here:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/gallery1.asp?galleryid=36
The New Slatesman shot 'sans blur' as requested, plus an entirely new one from Ian Parnell of The Quarryman groove pitch.
See them here:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=234
and larger versions here:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/gallery1.asp?galleryid=36
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Definitely the Quarryman, but mainly becuase it ecapsulates slate, for me, more than the others.
Definitely the Quarryman, but mainly becuase it ecapsulates slate, for me, more than the others.
In reply to Tyler:
Simon this is a much better picture than the rest combined !!! this is the one now ....
> (In reply to Simon Panton nr)
>
> Definitely the Quarryman, but mainly because it encapsulates slate, for me, more than the others.
>
> Definitely the Quarryman, but mainly because it encapsulates slate, for me, more than the others.
Simon this is a much better picture than the rest combined !!! this is the one now ....
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I much prefer the New Statesman shot now that the blur has been removed.
I much prefer the New Statesman shot now that the blur has been removed.
In reply to practicalcat:
...having said that, still can't decide on an overall favourite photo...
...having said that, still can't decide on an overall favourite photo...
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
#1 is a great shot with good perspective but no colour so won't jump off the shelf at you
#2 is too gimmicky. I applaud the attempt to be different but in this case don't think it really adds to the original
#3 has no colour and no perspective. It's dull.
I'd say both of the new ones are better than all of the original 3, as they have both colour and perspective. Either would make a very good cover but if I had to choose I would go for #5 as it is more characteristically slate.
#1 is a great shot with good perspective but no colour so won't jump off the shelf at you
#2 is too gimmicky. I applaud the attempt to be different but in this case don't think it really adds to the original
#3 has no colour and no perspective. It's dull.
I'd say both of the new ones are better than all of the original 3, as they have both colour and perspective. Either would make a very good cover but if I had to choose I would go for #5 as it is more characteristically slate.
In reply to john arran: I still like number 1. Slate is different, and number 1 brings that out.
In reply to UKC Gear:
I think I'm now on a tie with quarryman and the original photo 1. That photo without the blur does look passable now though.
Maybe worth starting a new voting thread to guage the response to the improved selection?
AJM
I think I'm now on a tie with quarryman and the original photo 1. That photo without the blur does look passable now though.
Maybe worth starting a new voting thread to guage the response to the improved selection?
AJM
In reply to UKC Gear:
Number 2 is much better without the blur, but the Quarryman is a strong contender
Number 2 is much better without the blur, but the Quarryman is a strong contender
In reply to Simon Panton nr: Just thought of another wierd piece of guidebook cover continuity: If we choose the Quarryman shot then Mark Reeves would once again get the belayer tick (he was belaying Leo on Bungles Arete on the 1999 slate guide).
In reply to john arran: I think I agree almost entirely with John. The unblurred shot is much better than the blurred. Either of the newer two would be good but I think the quarryman has hte edge. A modern activist on what must be the iconic slate route neatly bridges old and new in my opinion.
Iain
Iain
In reply to UKC Gear:
You're all being stupid and trying to stitch Simon up. The only contender is The New Slatesman and if you just think about you'll realise that too...
You're all being stupid and trying to stitch Simon up. The only contender is The New Slatesman and if you just think about you'll realise that too...
In reply to UKC Gear:
Either the No1 shot or the Quarryman shot is good too.
I just don't think the New Slatesman picture is very good. Much of the climbers body and part of his face are in shadow, the shadow on the boulders below means that the background isn't neutral enough and further detracts from the climber. Overall it's to busy and not bold enough to mke a very good cover. I think if it had been strong enough in the first place, then it would have never needed the blur to be added.
I know that you're interested in representing new development, but this just isn't the photo to do it.
Either the No1 shot or the Quarryman shot is good too.
I just don't think the New Slatesman picture is very good. Much of the climbers body and part of his face are in shadow, the shadow on the boulders below means that the background isn't neutral enough and further detracts from the climber. Overall it's to busy and not bold enough to mke a very good cover. I think if it had been strong enough in the first place, then it would have never needed the blur to be added.
I know that you're interested in representing new development, but this just isn't the photo to do it.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
That's me belaying hard climbers since 1996!
> (In reply to Simon Panton nr) Just thought of another wierd piece of guidebook cover continuity: If we choose the Quarryman shot then Mark Reeves would once again get the belayer tick (he was belaying Leo on Bungles Arete on the 1999 slate guide).
That's me belaying hard climbers since 1996!
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I think The Quarry Man is by far the best photo, the Statesman (sana blur) is good too. I dont think the blur effect adds anything to the photo. #3 is as already said, good, but dated. The first is dark, (i'm severly colour blind) and the colours look screwed to me, brown and green and generally pretty dank.
I think The Quarry Man is by far the best photo, the Statesman (sana blur) is good too. I dont think the blur effect adds anything to the photo. #3 is as already said, good, but dated. The first is dark, (i'm severly colour blind) and the colours look screwed to me, brown and green and generally pretty dank.
In reply to Mart B: #5 now (I was originally a #3 which seems to put me in a minority). Unfortunately, I think the broken slate in the background spoils #2/4 (the visual impact of the climber that is).
In reply to Mark Reeves: Very good Mark. Surely we need an article!
Training and top tips:
"Mark Reeves, at the cutting edge of Slate belaying for well over a decade"
Jack
Training and top tips:
"Mark Reeves, at the cutting edge of Slate belaying for well over a decade"
Jack
In reply to Simon Panton nr: I'd say the only ones I'd consider bad choices would be two and three, I do particularly like the Quarryman shot though, it's got the most going on.
In reply to UKC Gear: mmmm....now I'm torn between my original choice of number 1 and the number 5....both have that real slate feel.....
I think I maybe swayed to the quarryman. I recently lead Combat rock and I remember looking over towards the quarryman and just being in awe. It'an historic route that has recently seen a full repeat so it fits the bill nicely of 'recent developments' and still has that edge to it.
Sorry Jack....number 5 - the quarryman
I think I maybe swayed to the quarryman. I recently lead Combat rock and I remember looking over towards the quarryman and just being in awe. It'an historic route that has recently seen a full repeat so it fits the bill nicely of 'recent developments' and still has that edge to it.
Sorry Jack....number 5 - the quarryman
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I reckon either of the two new ones, The Quarryman pic possibly edges it cause it does have more of a slate feel to it.
I reckon either of the two new ones, The Quarryman pic possibly edges it cause it does have more of a slate feel to it.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Belaying up to the grade of E8, is a very hard business Jack and I won't be ridiculed. However there is an article in it, I am sure. I have been as scared belaying as I have climbing!
> (In reply to Mark Reeves) Very good Mark. Surely we need an article!
>
> Training and top tips:
>
> "Mark Reeves, at the cutting edge of Slate belaying for well over a decade"
>
> Jack
>
> Training and top tips:
>
> "Mark Reeves, at the cutting edge of Slate belaying for well over a decade"
>
> Jack
Belaying up to the grade of E8, is a very hard business Jack and I won't be ridiculed. However there is an article in it, I am sure. I have been as scared belaying as I have climbing!
In reply to Mark Reeves: No 1 is definitely my favourite, very striking.
In reply to Simon Panton nr: i think The Quarryman wins but Tamborine Man is still a close second.
In reply to UKC Gear: Not keen on any of them. If I had to pick any it would have to be number 2 without the blurring. There must surely be more absorbing slate pictures out there?
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