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Hello UKC...
Last year I posted a similar post about VS routes, this year I am looking to try and get a few HVS leads in, but I would like soft for the grade or safe / unpolished routes to do this on. Any suggestions for ones that fit the bill? I'm Bristol based, so anything at the gorge / wye valley would be ideal, but Gower/Baggy/Devon+Cornwall would also be of interest.
Style wise, I don't have a preference
So far I have The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn cliff on my radar, can anyone recommend any others? Organ Grinder maybe?
Thanks in advance
Adam
Last year I posted a similar post about VS routes, this year I am looking to try and get a few HVS leads in, but I would like soft for the grade or safe / unpolished routes to do this on. Any suggestions for ones that fit the bill? I'm Bristol based, so anything at the gorge / wye valley would be ideal, but Gower/Baggy/Devon+Cornwall would also be of interest.
Style wise, I don't have a preference
So far I have The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn cliff on my radar, can anyone recommend any others? Organ Grinder maybe?
Thanks in advance
Adam
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In reply to BStar:
Laughing Cavalier would be a far better first HVS than Organ Grinder, which is quite pumpy. At Avon, Suspension Bridge Buttress contains Suspense and Suspension Bridge Arete, either of which would also be a good choice.
Laughing Cavalier would be a far better first HVS than Organ Grinder, which is quite pumpy. At Avon, Suspension Bridge Buttress contains Suspense and Suspension Bridge Arete, either of which would also be a good choice.
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In reply to John2:
Agreed.
If you like slabs Portishead is a good place to go - Brink of Solidarity and if you get on with that then do the other two.
Agreed.
If you like slabs Portishead is a good place to go - Brink of Solidarity and if you get on with that then do the other two.
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In reply to BStar:
Wind Wall is a great one to try, lovely climbing, soft in the grade, very well protected where it matters and not too bad elsewhere. No need for finger jamming (or jamming in general IRRC) its not a slab but not too steep either.
Wind Wall (HVS 5a)
Also pitch 1 of Vala is soft, good and well protected
Vala (HVS 5a)
Wind Wall is a great one to try, lovely climbing, soft in the grade, very well protected where it matters and not too bad elsewhere. No need for finger jamming (or jamming in general IRRC) its not a slab but not too steep either.
Wind Wall (HVS 5a)
Also pitch 1 of Vala is soft, good and well protected
Vala (HVS 5a)
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In reply to BStar:
Outward Bound (HVS 4c) on Haytor. Technical difficulty of a VS, well-protected (as long as you are careful with the slings - beware of wind!), but just too outrageous to be a VS - look at the comments for how many people, presumably low-grade trad leaders like me completely unprepared for that level of steepness, who fall off It's also easily possible to do very stupid things with rope drag and gear at the back of the roof...
It's also good enough to overcome my usual dislike of Dartmoor granite.
Outward Bound (HVS 4c) on Haytor. Technical difficulty of a VS, well-protected (as long as you are careful with the slings - beware of wind!), but just too outrageous to be a VS - look at the comments for how many people, presumably low-grade trad leaders like me completely unprepared for that level of steepness, who fall off It's also easily possible to do very stupid things with rope drag and gear at the back of the roof...
It's also good enough to overcome my usual dislike of Dartmoor granite.
Post edited at 14:31
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In reply to BStar:
Suspension Bridge Arete in Avon Gorge was my first HVS lead as I recall, it's a good one for that. Desecrator at the other end of the gorge could be a good bet too and is a better climb. Agree also with Wind Wall and Outward Bound on the moor, good routes and fairy straightforward. If you do Wind Wall, it's a good idea not to warm up on nearby VS Mushroom Wall as many find it the harder of the two routes.
Suspension Bridge Arete in Avon Gorge was my first HVS lead as I recall, it's a good one for that. Desecrator at the other end of the gorge could be a good bet too and is a better climb. Agree also with Wind Wall and Outward Bound on the moor, good routes and fairy straightforward. If you do Wind Wall, it's a good idea not to warm up on nearby VS Mushroom Wall as many find it the harder of the two routes.
In reply to BStar:
Useful fairly recent thread on the same topic here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=630504
My top suggestions route wise would be:
Disaster Area (HVS 5a)
The Brink of Solarity (HVS 5a)
The Lost Treasure Of The Kingdom of Mercia (HVS 5a)
The Laughing Cavaliers (HVS 5a)
Thanksgiving (HVS 5a)
Suspension Bridge Arête (HVS 5a)
All have good gear, are not on intimidating crags and are steady/low in the grade.
Useful fairly recent thread on the same topic here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=630504
My top suggestions route wise would be:
Disaster Area (HVS 5a)
The Brink of Solarity (HVS 5a)
The Lost Treasure Of The Kingdom of Mercia (HVS 5a)
The Laughing Cavaliers (HVS 5a)
Thanksgiving (HVS 5a)
Suspension Bridge Arête (HVS 5a)
All have good gear, are not on intimidating crags and are steady/low in the grade.
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In reply to BStar:
I enjoyed Saxon at Kenidijack. A poweful start, but then you can stay on your feet and steady away, and I felt it was well protected, though the guide book does say different. If you have a willing photographer I would think some superb shots could be got from the other headland if you wore bright clothes.
I enjoyed Saxon at Kenidijack. A poweful start, but then you can stay on your feet and steady away, and I felt it was well protected, though the guide book does say different. If you have a willing photographer I would think some superb shots could be got from the other headland if you wore bright clothes.
In reply to BStar:
I cannot concur with the suggestions of Moonraker or Saxon, both are excellent routes, but they feel serious and very committing. You ought to be well established at the grade before getting on them.
I cannot concur with the suggestions of Moonraker or Saxon, both are excellent routes, but they feel serious and very committing. You ought to be well established at the grade before getting on them.
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In reply to Mark Kemball:
You might have a point but I thought Moonraker was technically very easy.
Al
> I cannot concur with the suggestions of Moonraker or Saxon, both are excellent routes, but they feel serious and very committing. You ought to be well established at the grade before getting on them.
You might have a point but I thought Moonraker was technically very easy.
Al
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In reply to Mark Kemball:
Have to agree with you there Mark; great routes both, but not good suggestions for a first HVS lead.
Of the slab routes at Shorncliffe, I thought No Musketeers (HVS 5a) was a more enjoyable climb than Laughing Cavaliers, and from memory the crux is well protected (though I'll hold my hand up and say that I may be confusing it with the alternative E1 finish, which definitely well protected).
The Wye Valley route that used to be frequently suggested as a good first HVS was Butterfly (VS 4c), though I see this has been regraded downwards.
T.
Have to agree with you there Mark; great routes both, but not good suggestions for a first HVS lead.
Of the slab routes at Shorncliffe, I thought No Musketeers (HVS 5a) was a more enjoyable climb than Laughing Cavaliers, and from memory the crux is well protected (though I'll hold my hand up and say that I may be confusing it with the alternative E1 finish, which definitely well protected).
The Wye Valley route that used to be frequently suggested as a good first HVS was Butterfly (VS 4c), though I see this has been regraded downwards.
T.
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In reply to BStar:
Agree with Laughing Cavaliers.
Just very slightly harder is its sister route - Bitter Battle Tears. This has a slightly more strenuous and overhanging start but otherwise it is also a tremendous well-protected route.
Agree with Laughing Cavaliers.
Just very slightly harder is its sister route - Bitter Battle Tears. This has a slightly more strenuous and overhanging start but otherwise it is also a tremendous well-protected route.
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In reply to BStar:
Brink Of Solarity and laughing Cavaliers having already been suggested, I would add Emotional Dyslexia as well.
Brink Of Solarity and laughing Cavaliers having already been suggested, I would add Emotional Dyslexia as well.
In reply to BStar:
Lost Horizon at Baggy would be an HVS if the gear wasn't perfect. It's sustained and great and very safe. If you can do that you can do most HVS.
Swanage has a few softies amidst the hard HVS. Recommending Quality Street and Finale Groove.
The trio of HVSs incl Laughing Cav at Shorn Cliff all recommended. All safe and slabby. Tigers/Organ Grinder less so.
Lost Horizon at Baggy would be an HVS if the gear wasn't perfect. It's sustained and great and very safe. If you can do that you can do most HVS.
Swanage has a few softies amidst the hard HVS. Recommending Quality Street and Finale Groove.
The trio of HVSs incl Laughing Cav at Shorn Cliff all recommended. All safe and slabby. Tigers/Organ Grinder less so.
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In reply to Owen W-G:
I think Lost Horizon is one of the best pitches at any grade in Devon, if not in Britain. It used to be soft HVS but shouldn't be missed just because it's a sustained VS! The finger locks are lovely and, as you say, the gear is perfect.
If you want easy HVS at Baggy, the Chouinard's Yard Routes are very straightforward if you are OK on bold slabs (or have RPs). Long Rock* Eliminate is steady as long as you can cope with the usual herbacious Promontory* top-out.
* I'm still confused about which is which.
> Lost Horizon at Baggy would be an HVS if the gear wasn't perfect. It's sustained and great and very safe. If you can do that you can do most HVS.
I think Lost Horizon is one of the best pitches at any grade in Devon, if not in Britain. It used to be soft HVS but shouldn't be missed just because it's a sustained VS! The finger locks are lovely and, as you say, the gear is perfect.
If you want easy HVS at Baggy, the Chouinard's Yard Routes are very straightforward if you are OK on bold slabs (or have RPs). Long Rock* Eliminate is steady as long as you can cope with the usual herbacious Promontory* top-out.
* I'm still confused about which is which.
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In reply to Owen W-G:
Both technically easy, I agree, but visually intimidating. Easy to look up and think, "Oh f*ck!"
Whereas the likes of Suspension Bridge Arete and Laughing Cavaliers will feel much more friendly.
Mick
> Swanage has a few softies amidst the hard HVS. Recommending Quality Street and Finale Groove.
Both technically easy, I agree, but visually intimidating. Easy to look up and think, "Oh f*ck!"
Whereas the likes of Suspension Bridge Arete and Laughing Cavaliers will feel much more friendly.
Mick
In reply to GridNorth:
You must be fu*king joking. Very serious route, what with tidal approach problems, bird shit everywhere, and nor easily escapable!
You must be fu*king joking. Very serious route, what with tidal approach problems, bird shit everywhere, and nor easily escapable!
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In reply to BStar:
I thought Organ Grinder was the easiest HVS at Shorncliff and was surprised when it got up graded.
Wintours soft touches are Guytha and Great North Wall Route. Is Cheetah HVS now? Dazed and Confused on Fly Wall is also pretty easy.
Easiest HVS's at Avon are Bonbogies and Suspension Bridge Arête.
The Portishead ones mentioned are good as well.
Can't think of any soft touches at Windcliff or the Yat though...
On Gower Isis and Anenome Wall are tough VS's or HVS.
At Baggy Pickpocket has one short hard bit and Long Rock Eliminate is straightforward.
There's also one at Valley of Rocks, next to Icarus (Prometheus?) that is very easy for the grade.
I thought Organ Grinder was the easiest HVS at Shorncliff and was surprised when it got up graded.
Wintours soft touches are Guytha and Great North Wall Route. Is Cheetah HVS now? Dazed and Confused on Fly Wall is also pretty easy.
Easiest HVS's at Avon are Bonbogies and Suspension Bridge Arête.
The Portishead ones mentioned are good as well.
Can't think of any soft touches at Windcliff or the Yat though...
On Gower Isis and Anenome Wall are tough VS's or HVS.
At Baggy Pickpocket has one short hard bit and Long Rock Eliminate is straightforward.
There's also one at Valley of Rocks, next to Icarus (Prometheus?) that is very easy for the grade.
In reply to BStar:
Just wondering, have you lead some of the harder VS's at Wyndcliffe (e.g. Fibre, Cadillac) and the Fly Wall at Wintours (The Split, Joe's and the Fly)?
Just wondering, have you lead some of the harder VS's at Wyndcliffe (e.g. Fibre, Cadillac) and the Fly Wall at Wintours (The Split, Joe's and the Fly)?
In reply to BStar:
I'd second Vala at the Dewerstone - it's a really good line with lots of gear, and you can warm up on the routes around it
Two slightly random Cornish options:
Trapeze, a rare single pitch at Bosigran - hard section is short with excellent gear (if you have BIG cams) though it is pumpy
Biggles Flies Undone at Aire Point - lovely place to go climbing, low in the grade, and you have Aireline to 'enjoy' next to it
I'd second Vala at the Dewerstone - it's a really good line with lots of gear, and you can warm up on the routes around it
Two slightly random Cornish options:
Trapeze, a rare single pitch at Bosigran - hard section is short with excellent gear (if you have BIG cams) though it is pumpy
Biggles Flies Undone at Aire Point - lovely place to go climbing, low in the grade, and you have Aireline to 'enjoy' next to it
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In reply to BStar:
The 3 HVS's at portishead quarry are awesome first HVS leads. I cant remember which is which but the middle of the 3 is the hardest so i would do that one last. It has a tricky-ish bold start so not good for confidence. The other 2 are brilliant with tons of bomb proof gear. Its a great place to get 3 HVS's done in one day!
After that as alot of people have suggested already head to suspension bridge butress. Sus-arete and suspense are top quality routes. The crux of the arete route is just before entering the chimney and it is awesome. Take lots of slings for both of those routes as there are many thread placements which really settle the nerves!.....
Shorne cliff has many good well protected HVS routes as well. Emotional dyslexia is a great route. It is a soft touch for HVS and full of great gear
Good luck
The 3 HVS's at portishead quarry are awesome first HVS leads. I cant remember which is which but the middle of the 3 is the hardest so i would do that one last. It has a tricky-ish bold start so not good for confidence. The other 2 are brilliant with tons of bomb proof gear. Its a great place to get 3 HVS's done in one day!
After that as alot of people have suggested already head to suspension bridge butress. Sus-arete and suspense are top quality routes. The crux of the arete route is just before entering the chimney and it is awesome. Take lots of slings for both of those routes as there are many thread placements which really settle the nerves!.....
Shorne cliff has many good well protected HVS routes as well. Emotional dyslexia is a great route. It is a soft touch for HVS and full of great gear
Good luck
Post edited at 07:37
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In reply to alan moore:
Sinew isn't a bad option as just a couple of stiff lay-backs but good rests and LOADS of gear.
> Can't think of any soft touches at Windcliff or the Yat
Sinew isn't a bad option as just a couple of stiff lay-backs but good rests and LOADS of gear.
In reply to minty1984:
Portishead routes. I had not the impression that the two obvious crack lines up the slab were HVS, more like VS to me. well protected and not like HVS grit standard pumpy classics. The one right up the middle is more like E1 5b to me, very necky thin friction lead off the ground until you can get a couple of opposing horizontal wire placements. Well that's my opinion for what its worth. Same with suspension bridge arete. It's VS in my book with only move onto the final arete that is slightly bold, but well protected. Grade creep I think here. Baggy is a good place for slab climbing whatever the grade of the routes and the combination linkup of midnight cowboy and kinky boots is a thrilling VS/HVS route across the slab with great friction rock. Coronation Street is brilliant if its free of crud creeping ivy and i.m.h.o HVS climbing. Bit further down south west Sennen has bags of great routes on proper rock, rather than limestone glass
Portishead routes. I had not the impression that the two obvious crack lines up the slab were HVS, more like VS to me. well protected and not like HVS grit standard pumpy classics. The one right up the middle is more like E1 5b to me, very necky thin friction lead off the ground until you can get a couple of opposing horizontal wire placements. Well that's my opinion for what its worth. Same with suspension bridge arete. It's VS in my book with only move onto the final arete that is slightly bold, but well protected. Grade creep I think here. Baggy is a good place for slab climbing whatever the grade of the routes and the combination linkup of midnight cowboy and kinky boots is a thrilling VS/HVS route across the slab with great friction rock. Coronation Street is brilliant if its free of crud creeping ivy and i.m.h.o HVS climbing. Bit further down south west Sennen has bags of great routes on proper rock, rather than limestone glass
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In reply to BStar:
What do others think of Angle's Eye at Wintours leap - it had a pretty hard start but then great after that?
What do others think of Angle's Eye at Wintours leap - it had a pretty hard start but then great after that?
In reply to treforsouthwell:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I really do appreciate them all.
I've done a few of the VS's at wintours, butterfly, joes route, nibelheim, greys wall and things like petros, clarion at Avon.
I thought the start to Angel Eye looked hard but I could be tempted if someone promised me it was going to be ok!
Thanks for all the replies guys. I really do appreciate them all.
I've done a few of the VS's at wintours, butterfly, joes route, nibelheim, greys wall and things like petros, clarion at Avon.
I thought the start to Angel Eye looked hard but I could be tempted if someone promised me it was going to be ok!
In reply to BStar:
If you haven't already I'd head over to Wyncliffe, there are some great 30-40m routes there and they are all on the hard side for the grade.
It's really coping with the polished corner before the first overhang that's the hard bit (5b). I only seconded the route so it's hard for me to confidently recommend it.
> Thanks for all the replies guys. I really do appreciate them all.
> I've done a few of the VS's at wintours, butterfly, joes route, nibelheim, greys wall and things like petros, clarion at Avon.
If you haven't already I'd head over to Wyncliffe, there are some great 30-40m routes there and they are all on the hard side for the grade.
> I thought the start to Angel Eye looked hard but I could be tempted if someone promised me it was going to be ok!
It's really coping with the polished corner before the first overhang that's the hard bit (5b). I only seconded the route so it's hard for me to confidently recommend it.
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In reply to treforsouthwell:
I really don't think The Angel's Eye is a good recommendation for a first HVS. At least not the first pitch (which is why it gets HVS). I think the start is strenuous and sustained, agreed it would make a good VS above but I think you should be recommending routes where a potentially shaky leader can put some distance between himself and the ground before he encounters any difficulties.
I prefer the Shorncliff suggestions. Some good HVS' there, it's well protected and off vertical so people new to the grade have all the time in the world to fiddle in their gear.
I really don't think The Angel's Eye is a good recommendation for a first HVS. At least not the first pitch (which is why it gets HVS). I think the start is strenuous and sustained, agreed it would make a good VS above but I think you should be recommending routes where a potentially shaky leader can put some distance between himself and the ground before he encounters any difficulties.
I prefer the Shorncliff suggestions. Some good HVS' there, it's well protected and off vertical so people new to the grade have all the time in the world to fiddle in their gear.
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In reply to paul wood:
Totally agree with all of your post.
[To the OP] Best to leave Angel's Eye alone for the time being. Maybe do it at the end of the summer if you've got a dozen HVSs under your belt??
Mick
Totally agree with all of your post.
[To the OP] Best to leave Angel's Eye alone for the time being. Maybe do it at the end of the summer if you've got a dozen HVSs under your belt??
Mick
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In reply to BStar:
In West Penwith two excellent low-in-the-grade and safe HVSs come to mind: Rosebud in June (Zennor) and Zig-Zag (Sennen) come to mind. One is juggy, the other involves steep jamming.
In West Penwith two excellent low-in-the-grade and safe HVSs come to mind: Rosebud in June (Zennor) and Zig-Zag (Sennen) come to mind. One is juggy, the other involves steep jamming.
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In reply to BStar:
Shorn Cliff: Organ Grinder, why not go for it - not too pumpy if you can use your feet, and well-protected (don't motor on too high above your last placement, though!). Emotional Dyslexia is a good call, too.
Portishead: Brink of Solarity is well-protected and low in the grade (actually VS). Pickpocket is a bit harder, well-protected apart from a slightly bold start. However, The Baldest is not a good recommendation, the first section is both polished and run-out, and can feel very insecure on the lead.
+1 for Sinew at Wynd Cliff: a fantastic long pitch, low in the HVS grade, lots of good protection possibilities.
+1 for all Ivan's suggestions, with the possible exception of Disaster Area at Goblin Combe - the top bit needs a steady head.
Shorn Cliff: Organ Grinder, why not go for it - not too pumpy if you can use your feet, and well-protected (don't motor on too high above your last placement, though!). Emotional Dyslexia is a good call, too.
Portishead: Brink of Solarity is well-protected and low in the grade (actually VS). Pickpocket is a bit harder, well-protected apart from a slightly bold start. However, The Baldest is not a good recommendation, the first section is both polished and run-out, and can feel very insecure on the lead.
+1 for Sinew at Wynd Cliff: a fantastic long pitch, low in the HVS grade, lots of good protection possibilities.
+1 for all Ivan's suggestions, with the possible exception of Disaster Area at Goblin Combe - the top bit needs a steady head.
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In reply to treforsouthwell:
Cheers Trefor, it was nice to meet you and Mark(?) too. Had a good climb on Fibre after I saw you, certainly a much harder climb than Questor but great fun nonetheless. Maybe see you around some time.
Adam
Cheers Trefor, it was nice to meet you and Mark(?) too. Had a good climb on Fibre after I saw you, certainly a much harder climb than Questor but great fun nonetheless. Maybe see you around some time.
Adam
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In reply to BStar:
If you found Fibre OK then both Sinew (HVS 5a) (just left) and Klute (HVS 5a) (on RH crag) are not much harder and have plenty of gear.
If you found Fibre OK then both Sinew (HVS 5a) (just left) and Klute (HVS 5a) (on RH crag) are not much harder and have plenty of gear.
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In reply to BStar:
I would recommend going to North Wales for a long weekend when the forecast is settled, where there are many HVS routes of differing styles that are excellent for someone edging into the grade - Shorn Cliff is fine but all the routes in the Great Cave area are similar to one another, and I also think they are very soft touches for HVS. I certainly wouldn't recommend abseiling over the edge of Boulder Ruckle to try something like Finale Groove, though it's not very hard, until you have more confidence at the grade. You will likely feel intimidated and there's not much else at the grade that isn't quite serious.
So to North Wales. If the weather is fine, you'll have a blast on superb but safe routes such as Merlin Direct, Brant Direct, Scratch Arete, Seams the Same, Striptease, Spectre, Leg Slip, Great - Bow Slab, Cloggy Corner and A Dream of White Horses.
I would recommend going to North Wales for a long weekend when the forecast is settled, where there are many HVS routes of differing styles that are excellent for someone edging into the grade - Shorn Cliff is fine but all the routes in the Great Cave area are similar to one another, and I also think they are very soft touches for HVS. I certainly wouldn't recommend abseiling over the edge of Boulder Ruckle to try something like Finale Groove, though it's not very hard, until you have more confidence at the grade. You will likely feel intimidated and there's not much else at the grade that isn't quite serious.
So to North Wales. If the weather is fine, you'll have a blast on superb but safe routes such as Merlin Direct, Brant Direct, Scratch Arete, Seams the Same, Striptease, Spectre, Leg Slip, Great - Bow Slab, Cloggy Corner and A Dream of White Horses.
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In reply to David Rose:
Scratch Arete is a good call as a first HVS (it was mine). If you mean Striptease at Tremadog, that's VS; not an easy one, but still VS. I wouldn't recommend DOWH as a first HVS though.
T.
Scratch Arete is a good call as a first HVS (it was mine). If you mean Striptease at Tremadog, that's VS; not an easy one, but still VS. I wouldn't recommend DOWH as a first HVS though.
T.
In reply to Rob Davies:
Another excellent one, with good pro, looks quite intimidating but its not too bad at all, is The Muzzle, HVS 5a at Fox Promontory.
> In West Penwith two excellent low-in-the-grade and safe HVSs come to mind: Rosebud in June (Zennor) and Zig-Zag (Sennen) come to mind. One is juggy, the other involves steep jamming.
Another excellent one, with good pro, looks quite intimidating but its not too bad at all, is The Muzzle, HVS 5a at Fox Promontory.
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Thought of suggesting this myself, definitely a great little route with perfect gear.
Thought of suggesting this myself, definitely a great little route with perfect gear.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I was thinking that if the OP went to Wales for a few days, by the last day DOWH would be reasonable, given that it's technically quite easy.
I was thinking that if the OP went to Wales for a few days, by the last day DOWH would be reasonable, given that it's technically quite easy.
In reply to David Rose:
Finale Groove is also quite easy for HVS anyway just sayin'
Finale Groove is also quite easy for HVS anyway just sayin'
Post edited at 15:18
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In reply to BStar:
Classic UKC pearls of wisdom, Moonraker as a first HVS and Coronation Street at HVS (probably top end E1) maybe just ignore these youth!.
Classic UKC pearls of wisdom, Moonraker as a first HVS and Coronation Street at HVS (probably top end E1) maybe just ignore these youth!.
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In reply to BStar:
Red Rose Speedway (HVS 5a)
Takes all the gear you can carry (and probably more), with good holds throughout. Cracking route.
Red Rose Speedway (HVS 5a)
Takes all the gear you can carry (and probably more), with good holds throughout. Cracking route.
In reply to The Ivanator:
I haven't been up Klute, but Sinew was very pumpy - a bit like the bottom of Fibre but longer. Technically not too bad however.
> If you found Fibre OK then both Sinew (HVS 5a) (just left) and Klute (HVS 5a) (on RH crag) are not much harder and have plenty of gear.
I haven't been up Klute, but Sinew was very pumpy - a bit like the bottom of Fibre but longer. Technically not too bad however.
In reply to BStar:
I remember Klute feeling pretty serious, wouldn't recommend it as a first HVS. I'm not convinced that fibre is much easier than sinew.
In Avon suspension bridge buttress and the other hvs are both good, but starting to get a bit polished.
As already suggested all of the HVSs on the slab at shorn cliff, if you have stamina then organ grinder is straight forward but pumpy. My first HVS was Swatter at wintours which felt OK, short technical traverse which is well protected.
I remember Klute feeling pretty serious, wouldn't recommend it as a first HVS. I'm not convinced that fibre is much easier than sinew.
In Avon suspension bridge buttress and the other hvs are both good, but starting to get a bit polished.
As already suggested all of the HVSs on the slab at shorn cliff, if you have stamina then organ grinder is straight forward but pumpy. My first HVS was Swatter at wintours which felt OK, short technical traverse which is well protected.
In reply to alastairbegley:
Klute is somewhat pumpy, but there is good gear all the way if you can hang about to place it, no stopper moves, but I guess the urgency of the climbing might not make it ideal.
I found Sinew easier than Fibre personally (possibly good day/bad day syndrome though), the initial crack on Fibre seemed more demanding than any section of Sinew and I wasn't entirely convinced by the gear placements I got in it either. Gear on Sinew is plentiful and reassuring.
Klute is somewhat pumpy, but there is good gear all the way if you can hang about to place it, no stopper moves, but I guess the urgency of the climbing might not make it ideal.
I found Sinew easier than Fibre personally (possibly good day/bad day syndrome though), the initial crack on Fibre seemed more demanding than any section of Sinew and I wasn't entirely convinced by the gear placements I got in it either. Gear on Sinew is plentiful and reassuring.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
And a great setting. If you're after a classic HVS on Swanage, I'd look at Aventura - great for the grade. Steep but all the holds are good.
And I'd agree that Finale Groove isn't tough at the grade, and has great positions.
Lee
and Hi Steve
And a great setting. If you're after a classic HVS on Swanage, I'd look at Aventura - great for the grade. Steep but all the holds are good.
And I'd agree that Finale Groove isn't tough at the grade, and has great positions.
Lee
and Hi Steve
In reply to BStar: have a look at my log book from last summer - most of the routes have probably been mentioned but that was my first year of starting to regularly climb hvs and all were amenable. Just need to get back out there now!
In reply to BStar:
Hi Adam,
Yes, it was Mark I was climbing with.
How did you find Fibre, I thought the bottom bit was hard but short and the upper crack much easier going?
Hi Adam,
Yes, it was Mark I was climbing with.
How did you find Fibre, I thought the bottom bit was hard but short and the upper crack much easier going?
In reply to BStar:
Hi Adam,
We were down at Shorn Cliff on Sunday, Mark ended up leading Organ Grinder (HVS 5a) and Emotional Dyslexia (HVS 5a) with me in second.
Organ Grinder was short but very pumpy, if you are good at big layback moves then it's a great route with plenty of gear but you need good footwork and good arm strength.
I thought Emotional Dyslexia was low in the grade, I found it easier than quite a few VS's and will plan to lead it next time (and I wouldn't say I'm an HVS leader yet).
Hi Adam,
We were down at Shorn Cliff on Sunday, Mark ended up leading Organ Grinder (HVS 5a) and Emotional Dyslexia (HVS 5a) with me in second.
Organ Grinder was short but very pumpy, if you are good at big layback moves then it's a great route with plenty of gear but you need good footwork and good arm strength.
I thought Emotional Dyslexia was low in the grade, I found it easier than quite a few VS's and will plan to lead it next time (and I wouldn't say I'm an HVS leader yet).
In reply to springfall2008:
I know we all do these things differently, but for what it's worth I don't find the route pumpy, and never do much pure laybacking on it, if any. I would be more inclined to say you'll only need a lot of arm strength if you DON'T have good footwork!
> Organ Grinder was short but very pumpy, if you are good at big layback moves then it's a great route with plenty of gear but you need good footwork and good arm strength.
I know we all do these things differently, but for what it's worth I don't find the route pumpy, and never do much pure laybacking on it, if any. I would be more inclined to say you'll only need a lot of arm strength if you DON'T have good footwork!
2
In reply to bpmclimb:
It's a fair point and I think you will burn most of your arm strength placing gear rather than actually climbing the route. I I remember the OP telling me that he found Questa pumpy...
> I know we all do these things differently, but for what it's worth I don't find the route pumpy, and never do much pure laybacking on it, if any. I would be more inclined to say you'll only need a lot of arm strength if you DON'T have good footwork!
It's a fair point and I think you will burn most of your arm strength placing gear rather than actually climbing the route. I I remember the OP telling me that he found Questa pumpy...
In reply to Mick Ward:
Totally agree re Both Finale Groove and Quality St having done both when they were at the top of my onsight grade
Yep, I second what Mick says - I remember doing both when they were at the limit of my abilities for onsight and thinking exactly that !
Totally agree re Both Finale Groove and Quality St having done both when they were at the top of my onsight grade
> Both technically easy, I agree, but visually intimidating. Easy to look up and think, "Oh f*ck!"
> Mick
Yep, I second what Mick says - I remember doing both when they were at the limit of my abilities for onsight and thinking exactly that !
Post edited at 09:40
In reply to CurlyStevo:
More serious, but technically easier (and nowhere near as pumpy)
> Would DOWH not be a similar level of seriousness as Finale Groove?
More serious, but technically easier (and nowhere near as pumpy)
Post edited at 09:42
In reply to springfall2008:
Thanks again for all the messages.
I did The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn cliff on Monday as my first proper HVS. Climbing wise, it was ok albeit the steep start was a bit tricky. Route finding was horrendous! The CC description is not that good and I did think I was off route for the majority of the climb though.
I actually think Fibre at Windcliff is harder than The Laughing Cavaliers.
Thanks again for all the messages.
I did The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn cliff on Monday as my first proper HVS. Climbing wise, it was ok albeit the steep start was a bit tricky. Route finding was horrendous! The CC description is not that good and I did think I was off route for the majority of the climb though.
I actually think Fibre at Windcliff is harder than The Laughing Cavaliers.
1
In reply to BStar:
I have done every HVS and Extreme at Shorn Cliff and with the exception of "Tigers Don't Cry" I have found them all to be graded a bit on the soft side. TDC is a polished sandbag and harder than many of the Extremes.
Al
I have done every HVS and Extreme at Shorn Cliff and with the exception of "Tigers Don't Cry" I have found them all to be graded a bit on the soft side. TDC is a polished sandbag and harder than many of the Extremes.
Al
1
In reply to BStar:
Its pretty normal that you will find some VS climbs harder than some HVS climbs. Grades aren't accurate at the same crag never mind comparing crags. Also they are subjective (as is your opinion of the difficulty of climbs). That said I can think of several HVS climbs I swear are only VS and not particularly hard ones at that (and vice versa)
> I actually think Fibre at Windcliff is harder than The Laughing Cavaliers.
Its pretty normal that you will find some VS climbs harder than some HVS climbs. Grades aren't accurate at the same crag never mind comparing crags. Also they are subjective (as is your opinion of the difficulty of climbs). That said I can think of several HVS climbs I swear are only VS and not particularly hard ones at that (and vice versa)
2
In reply to BStar:
After the steep initial wall, on which the lines are separated and distinct, that slab does have a "could climb anywhere" feel about it - which makes writing route descriptions a real challenge. From the guidebook description, Laughing Cavaliers could be interpreted as deviating considerably from the vertical line, but actually the route snakes only gently. My impression is that a lot of climbers make this mistake.
> I did The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn cliff on Monday as my first proper HVS. Climbing wise, it was ok albeit the steep start was a bit tricky. Route finding was horrendous! The CC description is not that good and I did think I was off route for the majority of the climb though.
After the steep initial wall, on which the lines are separated and distinct, that slab does have a "could climb anywhere" feel about it - which makes writing route descriptions a real challenge. From the guidebook description, Laughing Cavaliers could be interpreted as deviating considerably from the vertical line, but actually the route snakes only gently. My impression is that a lot of climbers make this mistake.
In reply to bpmclimb:
when I lead it I though the top flake was worryingly hollow so didn't put gear behind it. I didn't have a cam large enough on the route to protect down and left which made the moves around that section seem quite bold (especially as I pulled on the flake anyway!)
when I lead it I though the top flake was worryingly hollow so didn't put gear behind it. I didn't have a cam large enough on the route to protect down and left which made the moves around that section seem quite bold (especially as I pulled on the flake anyway!)
Post edited at 14:20
In reply to CurlyStevo
The Shorncliff ones being an obvious example; War of the Worlds (still VS?) is harder than any of the HVS's on the Great Slab...
> Its pretty normal that you will find some VS climbs harder than some HVS climbs. Grades aren't accurate at the same crag never mind comparing crags.
The Shorncliff ones being an obvious example; War of the Worlds (still VS?) is harder than any of the HVS's on the Great Slab...
In reply to alan moore:
I didn't find it so. I would put it in the upper part of VS because of the somewhat bold upper section, but IMO the climbing is nowhere more than 4c. It doesn't quite merit HVS, which is strongly reflected in the UKC voting - overwhelmingly centre/upper VS 4c (with 60-70 votes cast).
> The Shorncliff ones being an obvious example; War of the Worlds (still VS?) is harder than any of the HVS's on the Great Slab...
I didn't find it so. I would put it in the upper part of VS because of the somewhat bold upper section, but IMO the climbing is nowhere more than 4c. It doesn't quite merit HVS, which is strongly reflected in the UKC voting - overwhelmingly centre/upper VS 4c (with 60-70 votes cast).
1
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