UKC

Llanberis Slate is a unique medium. It's telling that within the various International Meets that I've hosted in North Wales, it's one of, if not the rock type that foreigners are most keen to climb on. There are a variety of reasons for this and the first is that there's not really anywhere or anything quite like it. The low/no friction style of climbing, combined with the frequently slabby nature of the rock, present a highly idiosyncratic medium. 

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In reply to UKC Articles:

Am I missing something?  There seems to be nothing about the route itself, no description, no account of the experience of climbing the route.

In reply to aln:

Eh? There’s a whole 8-minute movie on it, which tells and shows you a lot about it, and about the experience of climbing it. Then, in the accompanying text, there’s a bit on the history. Perhaps there’s something wrong with your computer.

In reply to aln:

Seams the same, to me!

:-}

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Looked fine to me as well Gordon.

There's even a topo

In reply to UKC Articles:

I like Rob's technique of grabbing a decent flake hold with one hand and the removing his lower hand from another hold and smacking said flake with the now free hand to check whether it will snap or not. 😆

Lovely film chaps. I've done it, but like Valkyrie from the last vid, it's so long ago I remember very little about it. Must go back and do it again whilst I'm still getting up VSs in reasonable order (most of the time). 

In reply to TobyA:

Do what I say, not what I do 😅

I’m really glad that people are enjoying this - and that it’s getting a good number of views too. Much like the bouldering series we set out to make something that was more relatable than your average climbing film. It seems strange that there’s more footage of people climbing E8s on the internet than there is VS, despite far more people operating at that grade.

Thanks once again to Rab for sponsoring this series, because without them it wouldn’t have been possible. 

There’s two more within this series, so watch out over the next few weeks!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Are they also VSs?

If so the rest of us can play guess the classic VS! 

Something in the Lakes maybe? Eliminate 'A' (VS 4c) or The Crack (VS 4c)?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Longer than it takes to climb the thing

In reply to TobyA:

I'm hopefull of a video of Rob climbing  Paping About Like a Man With No Arms (VS 4c) myself. It is a classic of it's type.

In reply to UKC Articles:

The best VS on Slate! There's a massive list to chose from... Seamstress err ...?

In reply to Sean Kelly:

Mad Dog of the West (VS 5a) is good and when I did it at least, I thought a bit of a soft touch at the grade which always seems to only add to the pleasure. 

In reply to UKC Articles:

The best VS on slate? Not a huge amount of competition! 

In reply to aln:

The video is on youtube - if you can't see it in the article for some reason, can you see it here?

youtube.com/watch?v=0ktUZ_PMJfk&

In reply to veteye:

Very good!

In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:

Nice one.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Slate exists outside the N Wales quarries - maybe other good VS's there - I know of at least one Mango (VS 4c)

In reply to UKC Articles:

Nice film! Don't remember enjoying Seamstress much though. Found it hard and horribly polished, even in the early 90's and much more awkward than it looks. There was a good picture of it in the Paul Williams guide (where I think it was HVS). There was also a picture of a VS called Vertigo, high up in the quarries somewhere; that was much more fun...

In reply to alan moore:

I got handed my arse on a plate trying Seamstress after a few months off climbing a year or so ago.

In reply to TobyA:

Was going to say this. I've only climbed on slate once and did both routes, finding MDotW more enjoyable. I remember Seemstress being a bit awkward (all one-sided and slippery), where Mad Dog was enjoyable, technical finger-locking and jamming. MDotW is less aesthetic when stood at the bottom though; it looks quite crap until you've done the initial scramble to the base of the crack proper. 

Also did Zambesi (VS 4c) but remember that being pretty dirty and orrible and not looking like it ever wasn't. 

In reply to Bulls Crack:

For sure, Equinox is also nice but the list of good VSs is limited - the quarries get good at E1/2 IMO.

As for the "slate" elsewhere in the UK, it's much closer to phyllite.

In reply to UKC Articles: out of curiosity,  if someone has a copyright of the Paul Williams guide, what grade were Seamstress and Seams the Same? 

I remember them as ok, even a bit soft in the late 80's.  I don't recall Slug Club as especially hard for the grade either.  I guess there are only a few holds so not much to think about in terms of getting the sequence right

In reply to wbo2:

HVS 5a and E2 5b, respectively.

(At the time, both felt like soft touches to me.)

In reply to abcdefg:

Thanks, thats what I thought 

In reply to abcdefg:

Me too.

In reply to abcdefg:

I thought that I remembered them always being VS and HVS. So I'm educated by this thread.

In reply to abcdefg:

I did Seamstress 25 years ago when I think all I had to N Wales was the Williams guide from the early 90s. I'm sure I always thought it was VS, so I wonder if he changed the grade down in a later edition? Might go and dig out my copy later.

In reply to TobyA:

Suspension Flake (VS 4c)

Last time the mags covered it.

Eliminate A is, of course, the correct answer🙂

In reply to UKC Articles:

Great little video about a great little route. I probably did it for the first time around the same time as you Rob. Have done it a few times since and it never fails to bring a smile to my face

In reply to TobyA:

Pretty sure it was HVS in 'Llanberis' and in his North Wales select.

In reply to Michael Hood:

I can think of five or so which doesn't change the accuracy of the 'not much competition' statement

In reply to TobyA:

Considerably better than Seamstress, which I never thought was particularly great

In reply to wbo2:

I don't know, I think Slug Club is about right at E4. The sequence doesn't take much solving, but it's not the most secure set of moves and of course if you fluff them, you're going to meet the ground much faster than is desirable. 

In reply to wbo2: To clarify..  I was pretty certain they were two grades apart, with Seamstress as HVS and thus 'the Same' as E2, and both feeling very comfortable at the grade.

What's the Dervish get?  But that's a diversion so maybe don't

In reply to wbo2:

My recollection (I might be wrong) is that Haston originally gave that E5. But it rapidly came down, and in Williams's Llanberis guide it's E3 5c.

In reply to abcdefg:

Unless someting has changed, the last I heard; it's not anything any more

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Well, yes. See e.g. https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/comes_the_dervish_-_rockfall-74...

In reply to ianstevens:

Is that a euphemism? 

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Great call. Technical udging. Unfortunately my chest depth means it's a rare Stanage VS I'll certainly never tick (and was lucky to escape getting stuck in retreat: like Monolith in Ogwen). The Birth of Al at Stanage is better still but ungraded, one of the UKC staff had to reverse the whole thing being unable to (or unwilling to risk the) exit (which I couldn't even get close to).

In reply to Bulls Crack:

No, it's a type of metamorphosed mudstone

In reply to UKC Articles:

Great video! It's the only route I've done on slate and interesting to see what other people think of it. I didn't think it was bold, can't remember if any of the gear placements were only micronuts though. I found it strangely sustained in what must be a slate thing - my arms felt totally fine but my calves were tired by the end. Really enjoyed it, I'm now thinking I should have another look at slate...

In reply to UKC Articles:

Great article. One question to all on here, do ballnuts work in slate?

In reply to abcdefg:

Well mine is the last comment on the thread

In reply to abcdefg:

IIRC from what's been said over the years, it quickly became easier because it cleaned up from subsequent ascents.

In reply to Michael Hood:

That would make sense. But I suspect that there might have also been some general overgrading going on - for example, the route which is the subject of this thread.

That might just have happened since slate was a relatively new medium to be climbing on, and things hadn't had the time to settle down.

In reply to UKC Articles:

It is a nice route. Personally, I felt it and Seams the Same are not two grades apart. Seamstress felt bottom end HVS to me (when compared to other slate VSes), and Seams the Same mid-HVS. Then again, I do feel really secure in that style of slate climbing, so perhaps I'm not best suited at grading it.

In reply to Alkis:

I thought VS and E1 were bang on, though it is the only time I've climbed on Slate. I think those slabby routes are similar in character to quarried limestone slabs, such as Fairy Cave & Portishead Quarry, and even Culm to some extent (though I think Culm is metamorphized mud & slate anyway?).

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Just checked and I did both in mid 87. Soloed Seamstress as first slate route ever then lead Seams the Same. Comment in log says small gear but didn’t feel much harder than Seamstress

In reply to UKC Articles:

Nah, Fools gold is the best slate VS 😉

I once went to the slate on my own with intentions of lead rope soloing seamstress, turned out I’d forgotten all the gear was downward directional shallow nuts so soloed it whilst attached to a boulder at the bottom and paying out slack from the grigri, good times!

In reply to Jamdahll:

Another one that has got easier over time, I think.  When I first did it, it was given 6a and had one very hard move fairly low down.  Within a couple of years it somehow seemed easier, so maybe the crack had been cleaned out a bit or something had broken leaving a better hold.

In reply to TobyA:

Too easy! It can only be 'the best VS in the UK' aka 'Suspension Flake'!

In reply to Michael Hood:

'Mango', how did you get permission. I tried on three separate occasions with no success.

John

In reply to TMM:

Diocese (VS 5a), South Ridge Direct (VS 5a), Direct Route (VS 5b), Armorican (VS 4c), Blue Sky (VS 4b), Frankland's Green Crack (VS 4c) (second best VS on grit after Valkyrie),  Integrity (VS 4b), there are so many good ones to choose from! 

But it will be Chee Tor Girdle probably, because it's weird and not too far for the UKC Team to drive

In reply to John Gresty:

When was this? I went through a phase of climbing at the Brand about 7 years ago and  never had an issue, the owner was very friendly. It would be sad if things have changed its a wonderfully esoteric venue.

In reply to John Gresty:

Some history...

This was decades ago (mainly mid 80's) when Colonel Martin (at the time Lord Lieutenant of Leicester - nice alliteration 😁) was in residence.

Rumour had it that his father climbed Mango before WW2.

We just used to phone up and as long as it was convenient, park up at the house and walk down through the garden to the crag. This was in the period when there was loads of new routing by people like Steve Allen "I'm not a bold climber". - yes he was (Rurp The Wild Berserk (E6 6b), Gujerati Girl (E5 6b)) as well as being a tad strong (one finger pull ups, which finger do you want - did second ascent of Ray's Roof (E7 6c), don't know if he still hangs out with a certain Mr Dawes), Eugene Jones - strong technical climber, moved to Cardiff IIRC, John Mitchell (Splash (E3 5c) - guess why it was called that 😁. He wasn't the first, Ian Dring hit the water on a much earlier aided attempt at the blank, overhanging groove (now demised) just to the right of Rurp. l believe there was at least one occasion when some of them got asked in for tea. Even I've got a (minor) first ascent there.

I also remember Steve doing some "rope from above protected" climbing on one of the easier routes (for him); tie rope to tree, tie onto rope at appropriate length, jump off, climb back up.

IIRC the access changed to park across the road in the car park, over the wall and cut round to the crag. Can't remember if this was after Colonel Martin died, either his son or daughter were still ok with people climbing there but I've no idea about current ownership and access.

I wonder if Sailaway (HVS 5a) is still a quality jamming crack or whether it's now an arete.

In reply to Michael Hood:

The Brand. It would have been between 1990's up to about 2005 when my regular climbing partner lived near the Derbyshire/Leicestershire border and consequently if it was my turn to drive we would often explore the Leicestershire climbing.

I have seen an interesting video of Johnny Dawes and company climbing there, with Johnny D soloing a nasty hard route there.

John