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I wish I could blame a sheepish partner for needing a soft vs, but I probably couldn't pull 5a moves right now either and am not looking for a fight.
What are Mur y Niwl and one step in the clouds like?
Got any recommendations?
Thanks
What are Mur y Niwl and one step in the clouds like?
Got any recommendations?
Thanks
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In reply to zimpara:
There's plenty of great routes from diff-hs.
>
> Got any recommendations?
>
Do a route that's easier than a VS?There's plenty of great routes from diff-hs.
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In reply to zimpara:
I was going to say the same as Deacon, try an HS?
(Or just have a crack at a VS, there are rarely 5a moves on VSs, especially in Wales, the land of the soft touch........)
I was going to say the same as Deacon, try an HS?
(Or just have a crack at a VS, there are rarely 5a moves on VSs, especially in Wales, the land of the soft touch........)
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In reply to zimpara:
Nea Just do pitches 1 and 2 and ab. Third is scrappy
Dives / Better Things is also soft at VS
Valyries Rib at HS isn't much easier than these and is also good.
One step in the clouds is quite tricky delicate climbing for VS on pitch 2 with slightly spaced gear although not super bold. It is also very good. I hear there has been rockfall on pitch 1 btw but I see its still getting ticked.
Nea Just do pitches 1 and 2 and ab. Third is scrappy
Dives / Better Things is also soft at VS
Valyries Rib at HS isn't much easier than these and is also good.
One step in the clouds is quite tricky delicate climbing for VS on pitch 2 with slightly spaced gear although not super bold. It is also very good. I hear there has been rockfall on pitch 1 btw but I see its still getting ticked.
Post edited at 16:23
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In reply to zimpara:
One Step has of course suffered serious rockfall (the v groove has gone). Although I've not done it since, I gather it is still cimbable ata bout VS but is a bit harder.
If at Tremadog, the Micah Eliminate finish to Christmas Curry is pretty toppy at HS, almost VS in my book. Grim Wall is another excellent route - steep but juggy P2 with loads of pro.
One Step has of course suffered serious rockfall (the v groove has gone). Although I've not done it since, I gather it is still cimbable ata bout VS but is a bit harder.
If at Tremadog, the Micah Eliminate finish to Christmas Curry is pretty toppy at HS, almost VS in my book. Grim Wall is another excellent route - steep but juggy P2 with loads of pro.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Is Dives/Better Things VS now? Excellent route all the same (HS when I did it). I still remember being bridged out in the groove of the top pitch looking down through my legs at the road all the way below. Outrageous position for a HS.
Is Dives/Better Things VS now? Excellent route all the same (HS when I did it). I still remember being bridged out in the groove of the top pitch looking down through my legs at the road all the way below. Outrageous position for a HS.
Post edited at 16:29
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In reply to zimpara:
Mur y Niwl is not soft and you would be lucky to get it warm enough at this time of year.
Can't remember which is VS out of Oxo or Bovine but that might suit.
Mur y Niwl is not soft and you would be lucky to get it warm enough at this time of year.
Can't remember which is VS out of Oxo or Bovine but that might suit.
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In reply to galpinos:
You must be joking. Wales (outside of the quarries) is typically pretty fair for the grade - as for those in the Peak who think they're 'ard, that's another matter (i.e. Peak grades are generally soft IMO).
To the OP: I wrote a big article on Tremadog VS's back in the spring, have a look for that and it should give you some pointers. some on the RHS of the crag are definately at the lower end of VS. One Step is still VS, and actually hasn't changed greatly in character since the block tumbling. Mur y Niwl will be cold and/or wet at this time of year and is far from soft. If you want a soft one, Equinox or Seamstress (both in the quarries) are incredibly easy and should have been downgraded yonks ago.
Edit: link for shamelss self-promotion: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=8278
> I was going to say the same as Deacon, try an HS?
> (Or just have a crack at a VS, there are rarely 5a moves on VSs, especially in Wales, the land of the soft touch........)
You must be joking. Wales (outside of the quarries) is typically pretty fair for the grade - as for those in the Peak who think they're 'ard, that's another matter (i.e. Peak grades are generally soft IMO).
To the OP: I wrote a big article on Tremadog VS's back in the spring, have a look for that and it should give you some pointers. some on the RHS of the crag are definately at the lower end of VS. One Step is still VS, and actually hasn't changed greatly in character since the block tumbling. Mur y Niwl will be cold and/or wet at this time of year and is far from soft. If you want a soft one, Equinox or Seamstress (both in the quarries) are incredibly easy and should have been downgraded yonks ago.
Edit: link for shamelss self-promotion: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=8278
Post edited at 16:39
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In reply to ianstevens:
I think at VS and HVS of the climbs I've done they are probably about the same as peak grades if you don't live close to either venue. Typically grit may be more smeary / balancy on slabs or down right awkward on the cracks especially at HVS, whilst N Wales tends more to proper climbing on holds a style which I prefer to be honest. Being in the mountains I'm not surprised to find run out sections in N Wales especially on the slabs.
I would say in the easier grades N Wales may be tougher grading.
I think at VS and HVS of the climbs I've done they are probably about the same as peak grades if you don't live close to either venue. Typically grit may be more smeary / balancy on slabs or down right awkward on the cracks especially at HVS, whilst N Wales tends more to proper climbing on holds a style which I prefer to be honest. Being in the mountains I'm not surprised to find run out sections in N Wales especially on the slabs.
I would say in the easier grades N Wales may be tougher grading.
Post edited at 16:55
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
I'd agree with you. In the easier grades they tend to feel stiff for the grade but once you get into the E grades they feel about right or often soft.
Of the harder routes I've done in Wales you can often find yourself with the potential of a big fall on a tricky move. When this happens on grit it's often that the floor will stop you rather than the rope!
Caveat: I haven't actually done loads of climbing in Wales, and I'm a self-confessed soft touch hunter
> I think at VS and HVS of the climbs I've done they are probably about the same as peak grades if you don't live close to either venue. Typically grit may be more smeary / balancy on slabs or down right awkward on the cracks whilst N Wales tends more to proper climbing on holds a style which I prefer to be honest. Being in the mountains I'm not surprised to find run out sections in N Wales especially on the slabs.
> I would say in the easier grades N Wales may be tougher grading.
I'd agree with you. In the easier grades they tend to feel stiff for the grade but once you get into the E grades they feel about right or often soft.
Of the harder routes I've done in Wales you can often find yourself with the potential of a big fall on a tricky move. When this happens on grit it's often that the floor will stop you rather than the rope!
Caveat: I haven't actually done loads of climbing in Wales, and I'm a self-confessed soft touch hunter
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In reply to zimpara:
The second pitch traverse of Mur y Niwl is not well protected, so probably not a good choice at the moment.
Save it for the future and enjoy it then. Several good VSs at Tremadoc, and closer to the café too.
> What are Mur y Niwl and one step in the clouds like?
The second pitch traverse of Mur y Niwl is not well protected, so probably not a good choice at the moment.
Save it for the future and enjoy it then. Several good VSs at Tremadoc, and closer to the café too.
In reply to zimpara:
A soft touch VS is one that favours your best style of climbing, jamming, delicate slabs, laybacks etc... a tough VS is one that challenges your weaknesses.
Or think of climbing grades as a pyramid, to hit VS you need rock type, protection, route descriptions etc.. before you move up a grade.
A soft touch VS is one that favours your best style of climbing, jamming, delicate slabs, laybacks etc... a tough VS is one that challenges your weaknesses.
Or think of climbing grades as a pyramid, to hit VS you need rock type, protection, route descriptions etc.. before you move up a grade.
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In reply to zimpara:
Or you could look at Main Wall (HS 4b) which is a HS that punches above its weight. Good day out pretty much guaranteed.
Or you could look at Main Wall (HS 4b) which is a HS that punches above its weight. Good day out pretty much guaranteed.
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In reply to DerwentDiluted:
A very good day out guaranteed in late October if all you feel up to is a soft VS !
A very good day out guaranteed in late October if all you feel up to is a soft VS !
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In reply to GrahamD:
Haha and it got rained on today!
> A very good day out guaranteed in late October if all you feel up to is a soft VS !
Haha and it got rained on today!
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In reply to summo:
Nice post. Appreciate it!
> A soft touch VS is one that favours your best style of climbing, jamming, delicate slabs, laybacks etc... a tough VS is one that challenges your weaknesses.
> Or think of climbing grades as a pyramid, to hit VS you need rock type, protection, route descriptions etc.. before you move up a grade.
Nice post. Appreciate it!
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In reply to zimpara:
They are generally known as hard serves. Plenty of good ones to choose from.
Why do you need to climb something given VS even though it probably isn't really?
They are generally known as hard serves. Plenty of good ones to choose from.
Why do you need to climb something given VS even though it probably isn't really?
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In reply to zimpara:
Mur y Niwl is not soft! It gets HVS in the Ground Up guidebook, and deserves it in my opinion.
Mur y Niwl is not soft! It gets HVS in the Ground Up guidebook, and deserves it in my opinion.
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In reply to zimpara:
That's a really odd request? Do you need to climb a soft touch so you can boast?
That's a really odd request? Do you need to climb a soft touch so you can boast?
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In reply to Hat Dude:
And it won't be a nice place to be at this time of year, being a mountain crag.
> Mur y Niwl isn't somewhere to be messing about if you're not steady at VS
And it won't be a nice place to be at this time of year, being a mountain crag.
In reply to JayPee630:
Well so far all zimpara's 'boasting' about is not going very well at the moment - a predicament which most (all?) of us will face at one time or another. So maybe he deserves our sympathy and goodwill for his honesty.
If it was me, I'd drop down to V Diff and Severe (or anything!), get lots of mileage, regain confidence and build back up again.
But I realise that many people feel if they climb something of a particular grade, it's a fillip to get them going again.
Better surely that zimpara (and others reading this thread with similar ideas?) get on something at Tremadog or the Pass and leave the likes of Main Wall and Mur y Niwl until the days are longer.
Mick
Well so far all zimpara's 'boasting' about is not going very well at the moment - a predicament which most (all?) of us will face at one time or another. So maybe he deserves our sympathy and goodwill for his honesty.
If it was me, I'd drop down to V Diff and Severe (or anything!), get lots of mileage, regain confidence and build back up again.
But I realise that many people feel if they climb something of a particular grade, it's a fillip to get them going again.
Better surely that zimpara (and others reading this thread with similar ideas?) get on something at Tremadog or the Pass and leave the likes of Main Wall and Mur y Niwl until the days are longer.
Mick
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In reply to zimpara:
Seamstress (VS 4c) is well protected and pretty straightforward at the grade, on quick drying Slate as well. I thought Zip Groove (VS 4b) was a pretty soft touch, 4b and enough gear, next to it Cracked Arete (VS 4c) is brilliant, but more of a middle of the grade offering. Lighthouse Arete (VS 4b) is another with a reputation for being soft in the grade, but I've not done it, and it does involve the complications of the sea and abseil approach.
From the OP I would agree with earlier posters - avoid Mur y Niwl (verging on HVS, serious and unlikely to be in nick). One Step I climbed before the rockfall and thought low/mid VS, I found good gear tended to come just after each difficult sequence though, so a steady leading head is definitely helpful.
Seamstress (VS 4c) is well protected and pretty straightforward at the grade, on quick drying Slate as well. I thought Zip Groove (VS 4b) was a pretty soft touch, 4b and enough gear, next to it Cracked Arete (VS 4c) is brilliant, but more of a middle of the grade offering. Lighthouse Arete (VS 4b) is another with a reputation for being soft in the grade, but I've not done it, and it does involve the complications of the sea and abseil approach.
From the OP I would agree with earlier posters - avoid Mur y Niwl (verging on HVS, serious and unlikely to be in nick). One Step I climbed before the rockfall and thought low/mid VS, I found good gear tended to come just after each difficult sequence though, so a steady leading head is definitely helpful.
Post edited at 19:21
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In reply to zimpara:
On Dinas Mot there is Western Slabs, Lorraine and the Cracks (top pitch VS) but it might require some drying out and gets little sun at this time of year.
On Dinas Mot there is Western Slabs, Lorraine and the Cracks (top pitch VS) but it might require some drying out and gets little sun at this time of year.
In reply to the Ivanator: seamstress used to be given HVS and Seams the same E2 - that was some soft grading [
In reply to zimpara:
Merlin (VS 5a) (4c if you take LH start)
Scratch (VS 4c)
At Tremadog are probably a touch easier than One Step.
Creagh Dhu Wall (HS 4b) is well worth a look.
Dives/Better Things (HS 4b) @ Dinas Cromlech is a great route, Hard @ HS or Easy at VS, take your pick.
Nea (VS 4b) already mentioned is steady if dry.
Equinox (VS 4c) and Seamstress (VS 4c) are steady if tuned into Slate.
Lighthouse Arete (VS 4b) for adventure but steady climbing
Hard to be too precise as I don't really know what you like in a route?
Some to avoid migh be:
Striptease (VS 5a)
Shadrach (VS 4c)
Sabre Cut (VS 4c)
Mur y Niwl (VS 4c)
Merlin (VS 5a) (4c if you take LH start)
Scratch (VS 4c)
At Tremadog are probably a touch easier than One Step.
Creagh Dhu Wall (HS 4b) is well worth a look.
Dives/Better Things (HS 4b) @ Dinas Cromlech is a great route, Hard @ HS or Easy at VS, take your pick.
Nea (VS 4b) already mentioned is steady if dry.
Equinox (VS 4c) and Seamstress (VS 4c) are steady if tuned into Slate.
Lighthouse Arete (VS 4b) for adventure but steady climbing
Hard to be too precise as I don't really know what you like in a route?
Some to avoid migh be:
Striptease (VS 5a)
Shadrach (VS 4c)
Sabre Cut (VS 4c)
Mur y Niwl (VS 4c)
Post edited at 19:44
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In reply to Wayne S:
Erm yes. Entertaining and very 3d! Thought this was really good but not a soft touch by any means.
I dont remember the grim wall putting up much of a struggle.
> Creagh Dhu Wall (HS 4b) is well worth a look.
Good shout, got my foot stuck at one point!Erm yes. Entertaining and very 3d! Thought this was really good but not a soft touch by any means.
I dont remember the grim wall putting up much of a struggle.
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In reply to zimpara:
At this time of year the Moelwyns are a good bet. Pinky is a good VS, Kirkus Climb Direct and Slack are good severes as is Whitestreak / Honeysuckle Corner Combo. Ashael, Double Criss & Inverted Staircase are good hard severe / VS's. Oh and there's Orange Outang, Slick, Space Beolw My Feet, Y Gelynen et al all two or three star routes and nothing harder than HVS.
Quite often the crags are sheltered and the rock is so rough, clean and with good gear - easy descents and a decent cafe by the reservoir - enjoy
At this time of year the Moelwyns are a good bet. Pinky is a good VS, Kirkus Climb Direct and Slack are good severes as is Whitestreak / Honeysuckle Corner Combo. Ashael, Double Criss & Inverted Staircase are good hard severe / VS's. Oh and there's Orange Outang, Slick, Space Beolw My Feet, Y Gelynen et al all two or three star routes and nothing harder than HVS.
Quite often the crags are sheltered and the rock is so rough, clean and with good gear - easy descents and a decent cafe by the reservoir - enjoy
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In reply to zimpara:
Does it have to be Snowdonia. At this time if year I would recommend Holyhead mountain on Anglesea. Some good quality mainly single pitch climbs around the VS grade. Tension VS4b might be a good start.
Does it have to be Snowdonia. At this time if year I would recommend Holyhead mountain on Anglesea. Some good quality mainly single pitch climbs around the VS grade. Tension VS4b might be a good start.
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In reply to zimpara:
Someone mentioned Oxo and Bovine, I'd go for the combination - Oxine (VS 4c) superb, wonderful top pitch, looks mad, but it's jugs all the way.
Someone mentioned Oxo and Bovine, I'd go for the combination - Oxine (VS 4c) superb, wonderful top pitch, looks mad, but it's jugs all the way.
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In reply to Allanfairfechan:
I would just like to second this contribution. The moelwynion seem to fit the bill nicely: great climbing through vdiff to hvs, with the option of upping the grade if you like the style of climbing on pockets or dropping down a grade or two if it rains without losing quality or too much grip.
All the routes mentioned are excellent and worthwhile. just to add my own 2p: asahel with the eagle finish goes at vs 4b and takes you through some amazing positions, almost worth the walk up to Clipiau just to do that route!
I would just like to second this contribution. The moelwynion seem to fit the bill nicely: great climbing through vdiff to hvs, with the option of upping the grade if you like the style of climbing on pockets or dropping down a grade or two if it rains without losing quality or too much grip.
All the routes mentioned are excellent and worthwhile. just to add my own 2p: asahel with the eagle finish goes at vs 4b and takes you through some amazing positions, almost worth the walk up to Clipiau just to do that route!
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In reply to wbo:
The cracks were also full of shards and not nearly so well protected.
> seamstress used to be given HVS and Seams the same E2 - that was some soft grading [
The cracks were also full of shards and not nearly so well protected.
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In reply to Kid Spatula:
I thought Belle Vue Bastion was pretty straightforward but then as I recall Lightning Visit and Lavaredo at Carreg Alltrem were entry level VS and Lavaredo is 5a now apparently.
I think Oxine fits the bill, as Marks says. Looks steep but short of letting go deliberately I can't see how you can fall off it.
Otherwise, there are those filler-in VS starts on the Idwal Slabs that are very straightforward as long as you have no imagination and want to be able to tick off the grade.
Edit: I've just remembered Red Slab on Gallt yr Ogof. Red Slab itself and Red Pepper are only given 4b. And Teryn Bluffs: Via Media on Craig Aderyn - very slabby and the hard bits are avoidable.
> Munich Climb or Belle Vue Bastion
> (snicker)
I thought Belle Vue Bastion was pretty straightforward but then as I recall Lightning Visit and Lavaredo at Carreg Alltrem were entry level VS and Lavaredo is 5a now apparently.
I think Oxine fits the bill, as Marks says. Looks steep but short of letting go deliberately I can't see how you can fall off it.
Otherwise, there are those filler-in VS starts on the Idwal Slabs that are very straightforward as long as you have no imagination and want to be able to tick off the grade.
Edit: I've just remembered Red Slab on Gallt yr Ogof. Red Slab itself and Red Pepper are only given 4b. And Teryn Bluffs: Via Media on Craig Aderyn - very slabby and the hard bits are avoidable.
Post edited at 10:44
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Actually Belle Vue Bastion (VS 4c) is (climbing wise) a relatively mild VS, but going for a high mountain route late in the season with a complicated approach may not be the ideal confidence builder the OP is looking for.
Munich Climb (HVS 5a) seems to be generally (and I suspect rightly) accepted at HVS these days.
> Munich Climb or Belle Vue Bastion
Actually Belle Vue Bastion (VS 4c) is (climbing wise) a relatively mild VS, but going for a high mountain route late in the season with a complicated approach may not be the ideal confidence builder the OP is looking for.
Munich Climb (HVS 5a) seems to be generally (and I suspect rightly) accepted at HVS these days.
In reply to zimpara:
If you want a great multipitch route that could well be dry just get on tennis shoe at HS. You'll love it.
IF you are going well there are some easier and harder climbs you can enchain above. Be careful of Javelin Buttress as its quite easy to get a little lost on the route and end up doing a boldish / committing 5a move with gear below your feet.
If you want a great multipitch route that could well be dry just get on tennis shoe at HS. You'll love it.
IF you are going well there are some easier and harder climbs you can enchain above. Be careful of Javelin Buttress as its quite easy to get a little lost on the route and end up doing a boldish / committing 5a move with gear below your feet.
Post edited at 11:42
In reply to CurlyStevo:
I ws mainly stirring the pot - I actually think they're quite similar. I find slabs in the Peak a bit easy for the grade sometimes, but maybe I'm just suited to them.
> I think at VS and HVS of the climbs I've done they are probably about the same as peak grades if you don't live close to either venue. Typically grit may be more smeary / balancy on slabs or down right awkward on the cracks especially at HVS, whilst N Wales tends more to proper climbing on holds a style which I prefer to be honest. Being in the mountains I'm not surprised to find run out sections in N Wales especially on the slabs.
> I would say in the easier grades N Wales may be tougher grading.
I ws mainly stirring the pot - I actually think they're quite similar. I find slabs in the Peak a bit easy for the grade sometimes, but maybe I'm just suited to them.
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In reply to The Ivanator:
IMO Lighthouse Arete only sneaks into the VS bracket because of the abseil/sea complications. Would be HS anywhere else.
> Seamstress (VS 4c) is well protected and pretty straightforward at the grade, on quick drying Slate as well. I thought Zip Groove (VS 4b) was a pretty soft touch, 4b and enough gear, next to it Cracked Arete (VS 4c) is brilliant, but more of a middle of the grade offering. Lighthouse Arete (VS 4b) is another with a reputation for being soft in the grade, but I've not done it, and it does involve the complications of the sea and abseil approach.
IMO Lighthouse Arete only sneaks into the VS bracket because of the abseil/sea complications. Would be HS anywhere else.
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In reply to ianstevens:
Totally agree. It's a lovely route but what if the OP goes all that way, gets down there and finds out there's a big swell running?
(A little bit of mildly relevant history. I abbed down The Trap once - it was soaking wet - on a bitter day in January and got overtaken by a giant wave at the start of Britomartis. The world went green and frigid! Higher up on the route, one of my gear loops snapped (it was an old piece of cord from a cake tin my mum had sent) and all the right-sized gear went straight into the sea. So, no more runners! I squelched my way upwards, in a howling wind, just loving every moment.)
Lighthouse Arete might be another one maybe for next summer when hopefully the OP's going well and can enjoy all those other nearby routes. When things are right, it's pure delight down there.
Mick
Totally agree. It's a lovely route but what if the OP goes all that way, gets down there and finds out there's a big swell running?
(A little bit of mildly relevant history. I abbed down The Trap once - it was soaking wet - on a bitter day in January and got overtaken by a giant wave at the start of Britomartis. The world went green and frigid! Higher up on the route, one of my gear loops snapped (it was an old piece of cord from a cake tin my mum had sent) and all the right-sized gear went straight into the sea. So, no more runners! I squelched my way upwards, in a howling wind, just loving every moment.)
Lighthouse Arete might be another one maybe for next summer when hopefully the OP's going well and can enjoy all those other nearby routes. When things are right, it's pure delight down there.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Well that's why it is VS - I wouldn't want to be doing it any time between now and March (mostly to avoid getting chilly) and I've got a few grades in hand. However, if there is miracle resulting in a warm day with a pancake sea and some friendly tides, it could be a good move.
Sounds like a cracking day out!
> Totally agree. It's a lovely route but what if the OP goes all that way, gets down there and finds out there's a big swell running?
Well that's why it is VS - I wouldn't want to be doing it any time between now and March (mostly to avoid getting chilly) and I've got a few grades in hand. However, if there is miracle resulting in a warm day with a pancake sea and some friendly tides, it could be a good move.
> (A little bit of mildly relevant history. I abbed down The Trap once - it was soaking wet - on a bitter day in January and got overtaken by a giant wave at the start of Britomartis. The world went green and frigid! Higher up on the route, one of my gear loops snapped (it was an old piece of cord from a cake tin my mum had sent) and all the right-sized gear went straight into the sea. So, no more runners! I squelched my way upwards, in a howling wind, just loving every moment.)
Sounds like a cracking day out!
> Lighthouse Arete might be another one maybe for next summer when hopefully the OP's going well and can enjoy all those other nearby routes. When things are right, it's pure delight down there.
> Mick
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Munich Climb had a terrible reputation pre modern protection. The old guide book actually stated something like "there have been too many fatalities on this climb". Technically it's not that hard, but it's very exposed, particularly the traverse left after stepping boldly round the corner from the belay ledge, where it is tricky to construct good anchors, and leading to the bottom of Teufel's Crack. Technically at 4a this traverse is easier than the crux pitch below (4c), but this is where the fatalities occurred with at least twice leaders falling and pulling their seconds off. Your mind is concentrated by the guide book warning which makes it seem hard.
Interestingly Munich was one of my first VS leads and at the time when I hadn't read the guide book I didn't find this pitch too daunting. However I repeated the climb, again leading, some 10 years later having first read the (old) guide book warning and I was a quaking jelly on the pull round onto the nose that time.
Interesting how much psychology affects your climbing!!
> Munich Climb or Belle Vue Bastion
> (snicker)
Munich Climb had a terrible reputation pre modern protection. The old guide book actually stated something like "there have been too many fatalities on this climb". Technically it's not that hard, but it's very exposed, particularly the traverse left after stepping boldly round the corner from the belay ledge, where it is tricky to construct good anchors, and leading to the bottom of Teufel's Crack. Technically at 4a this traverse is easier than the crux pitch below (4c), but this is where the fatalities occurred with at least twice leaders falling and pulling their seconds off. Your mind is concentrated by the guide book warning which makes it seem hard.
Interestingly Munich was one of my first VS leads and at the time when I hadn't read the guide book I didn't find this pitch too daunting. However I repeated the climb, again leading, some 10 years later having first read the (old) guide book warning and I was a quaking jelly on the pull round onto the nose that time.
Interesting how much psychology affects your climbing!!
Post edited at 18:38
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In reply to zimpara:
Surely Yogi at Tremadog is one of the most straightforward in the area. At Ogwen Decameron Rib only has one short testing bit. Likewise Yellow Groove in the Pass.
Surely Yogi at Tremadog is one of the most straightforward in the area. At Ogwen Decameron Rib only has one short testing bit. Likewise Yellow Groove in the Pass.
In reply to zimpara:
The Cracks (HS 4c) on Dinas Mot is an awesome HS, really interesting climbing but not very hard (apart from the last move!).
The Cracks (HS 4c) on Dinas Mot is an awesome HS, really interesting climbing but not very hard (apart from the last move!).
Post edited at 13:02
In reply to zimpara:
but Zimpara I thought you climbed 7b? That spray vid of you doing some indoor 7 route certainly gave that impression..
but Zimpara I thought you climbed 7b? That spray vid of you doing some indoor 7 route certainly gave that impression..
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In reply to zimpara:
If you're going this weekend, remember the Snowdon Marathon is on and the Pass (and other roads) will be closed.
If you're going this weekend, remember the Snowdon Marathon is on and the Pass (and other roads) will be closed.
In reply to Trangia:
I remember, when I did it about 30 years ago, you could get a good nut before the traverse left, so it didn't seem too bad at all.
> Munich Climb had a terrible reputation pre modern protection. The old guide book actually stated something like "there have been too many fatalities on this climb". Technically it's not that hard, but it's very exposed, particularly the traverse left after stepping boldly round the corner from the belay ledge, where it is tricky to construct good anchors, and leading to the bottom of Teufel's Crack. Technically at 4a this traverse is easier than the crux pitch below (4c), but this is where the fatalities occurred with at least twice leaders falling and pulling their seconds off. Your mind is concentrated by the guide book warning which makes it seem hard.
I remember, when I did it about 30 years ago, you could get a good nut before the traverse left, so it didn't seem too bad at all.
2
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Agreed which is what I did first time round before I had read the guide book, but that wasn't my point, it was the psychological effect of knowing it was a death route the second time that unnerved me.
Agreed which is what I did first time round before I had read the guide book, but that wasn't my point, it was the psychological effect of knowing it was a death route the second time that unnerved me.
In reply to Trangia:
I felt the same way about Quietus - well, not so much that it was a death route but that Dave Sales had died on it. I'd shot up Old Friends, seconding, and was somewhat coerced into going on it. I can only remember arranging two pieces of gear, one at the top of the slab and one in the roof. Steve Bancroft had told me, "Don't go past the one in the roof unless it's cold welded." Good advice!
But I was freaked out. I've always been freaked out about roofs. Too much soloing, I suppose, whereas on roofs it's either up or off. And a big crowd below didn't help. Even though I knew I was going to get it, there was still a horrible sense of intimidation which I've never experienced on any other route. Unsurprisingly I've not been back.
Mick
I felt the same way about Quietus - well, not so much that it was a death route but that Dave Sales had died on it. I'd shot up Old Friends, seconding, and was somewhat coerced into going on it. I can only remember arranging two pieces of gear, one at the top of the slab and one in the roof. Steve Bancroft had told me, "Don't go past the one in the roof unless it's cold welded." Good advice!
But I was freaked out. I've always been freaked out about roofs. Too much soloing, I suppose, whereas on roofs it's either up or off. And a big crowd below didn't help. Even though I knew I was going to get it, there was still a horrible sense of intimidation which I've never experienced on any other route. Unsurprisingly I've not been back.
Mick
1
In reply to Trangia:
Those famous accidents occurred because the second was facing in using a shoulder or waist belay, and when the leader fell past him (i.e. behind him) from the lip of the overhang, the rope was snatched from his hands. We were all belaying facing out by the late-60s, and one could probably have got nut protection above the right side of the overhang by the late 50s.
> Agreed which is what I did first time round before I had read the guide book, but that wasn't my point, it was the psychological effect of knowing it was a death route the second time that unnerved me.
Those famous accidents occurred because the second was facing in using a shoulder or waist belay, and when the leader fell past him (i.e. behind him) from the lip of the overhang, the rope was snatched from his hands. We were all belaying facing out by the late-60s, and one could probably have got nut protection above the right side of the overhang by the late 50s.
1
In reply to Mick Ward:
The 'death route' that freaked me out (about three fatalities by the late 60s) was Mike's Mistake at Avon Gorge. As a result, I never had the guts to lead it.
The 'death route' that freaked me out (about three fatalities by the late 60s) was Mike's Mistake at Avon Gorge. As a result, I never had the guts to lead it.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
These things can really mess with your mind; if so, best leave 'em.
Mick
These things can really mess with your mind; if so, best leave 'em.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Exactly. Not worth the risk if one doesn't feel up to it psychologically. BTW, I left Hargreaves Orig Route/ Black Slab for years (until there was modern pro) for same reason - several deaths.
Exactly. Not worth the risk if one doesn't feel up to it psychologically. BTW, I left Hargreaves Orig Route/ Black Slab for years (until there was modern pro) for same reason - several deaths.
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