UKC

Snowdonia Winter Conditions

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 torquil 13 Oct 2012
First snows on snowdon this morning.

Surely that signals the start of the conditions thread!!




 deepstar 13 Oct 2012
In reply to torquil:
> First snows on snowdon this morning.
>
> Surely that signals the start of the conditions thread!!

You`ve missed that,somebody has already asked if Kinder Downfall is in.
 George Fisher 13 Oct 2012
In reply to deepstar:
> (In reply to torquil)
> [...]
>
> You`ve missed that,somebody has already asked if Kinder Downfall is in.

And is it?
 deepstar 13 Oct 2012
In reply to George Fisher:
> (In reply to deepstar)
> [...]
>
> And is it?

A bit marginal I think.
 torquil 13 Oct 2012
In reply to deepstar:
> (In reply to torquil)
> [...]
>
> You`ve missed that,somebody has already asked if Kinder Downfall is in.

I never knew that was in snowdonia!

 Cadairmanuk 13 Oct 2012
In reply to torquil:

Does any one know if idwal stream in in nick yet? Lol

B
 WILLS 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Cadairmanuk: here we go! Lol
 cbonner 13 Oct 2012
In reply to torquil:

I have a good feeling about this winter :-D

[sits and waits with anticipation]
In reply to torquil: so here's how it often works: a cold snap in the middle of November leads to the usual suspects freezing (ideal stream, middle pitch of parsley fern etc). We all get really excited. Then it melts and we all think it's all over. Then it freezes again for six weeks from about the end of the first week in January. Now, I admit that this was not the case last winter but the four or five before that have followed the pattern. It is feeling quite chilly so my money is on a great winter to make up for bad summer. There is going to be loads of seepage; add some cold and hey presto Rjukan in Wales!!!!! Fingers crossed.
 Jamie Light 14 Oct 2012
In reply to Charlie Burbridge:
> (In reply to torquil) so here's how it often works: a cold snap in the middle of November leads to the usual suspects freezing (ideal stream, middle pitch of parsley fern etc). We all get really excited. Then it melts and we all think it's all over. Then it freezes again for six weeks from about the end of the first week in January. Now, I admit that this was not the case last winter but the four or five before that have followed the pattern. It is feeling quite chilly so my money is on a great winter to make up for bad summer. There is going to be loads of seepage; add some cold and hey presto Rjukan in Wales!!!!! Fingers crossed.

Hope so

In reply to torquil: I have to say, it looks like the pattern may be repeating itself this year. First arctic blast on its way.
 iksander 26 Oct 2012
 pebbles 26 Oct 2012
In reply to Charlie Burbridge: my thoughts exactly! fingers crossed
 Mike Peacock 01 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: The snow is back...
 andyd1970 01 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock: how much snow Mike
 RichJ634 01 Nov 2012
In reply to andyd1970: Not all that much. Snowdon massif looked quite wintry above 800m, but nothing to get very excited about - although it did prompt me to go and buy some new crampons
 davegs 02 Nov 2012
I have aTwitter feed set up called @welshwinter. This will hopefully give up to date feedback on current conditions. If people either use the hash tag #welshwinter or mention @welshwinter it will automatically re tweet.

It is also set up to feed from different blogs such as Andy Mountains and Baggy's blog.

If you have a blog that might help with reporting Welsh winter conditions let me know and I will set it up to tweet when a new report is blogged.

Thanks
Dave
 cbonner 02 Nov 2012
In reply to davegs:

Excellent! Cheers Dave.
 David Ponting 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Gob_Stopper:

I'm off there on a club trip this weekend, on which for various novice-related reasons I'm the only person who's even worn crampons before... is there enough to mess up our plans or are the big scrambles still in summer condition? (weather looks bad enough on MWIS that we probably won't be able to climb, so it's walk or scramble)

I'd guess Tryfan and Crib Goch are low enough to be clear of any substantial build-up, but if anyone is out today and happens to see what the situation is, do say!
 dgp 02 Nov 2012
In reply to David Ponting: Very strong winds today on the Carneddau - high wind chill and so unpleasant that retreated to Valley very quickly. A dry afternoon today but more snow showers forecast for tomorrow and if these gusty winds continue I would not want to be on Crib Goch with novices. If you want to take them on a scramble I'd choose something like the S. ridge of Moel Siabod
 Rory Shaw 02 Nov 2012
In reply to David Ponting: bring your hobnails!
 rodw 02 Nov 2012
In reply to David Ponting: did crib goch today via north ridge reasonable covering of powder snow not ready for crampons yet but definatey more hands on than normal. I would not consider taking a novice across. Cornice build up at the top of parsley fern, is this a good omen for things to come
 RichJ634 02 Nov 2012
In reply to rodw: Don't jinx it!
 torquil 03 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: more snow over night, lightly down to about 600m but looks properly snowy higher up. Looks like a fine winter scrambling day.
In reply to torquil: Just been up to Halfway station and it's looking rather wintery past clogwyn station! A sign of things to come?
crow-media 04 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Plenty of snow on the Carneddau yesterday afternoon. (photo)

http://twitter.yfrog.com/0j5sjaj
mountainmadness 04 Nov 2012
 sam-brad 04 Nov 2012
In reply to mountainmadness:
Went up Y Garn today, a lot more snow than I expected!!
It was a beautiful day... although the wind was very cold!!!
Lets hope its the start of a great winter!
some pics of today on my blog
sambradshaw.weebly.com
In reply to mountainmadness:
> (In reply to torquil)
>
> Wow, snowy Snowdon!
>
>
> http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/snowdon-webcam

LOL
playmobile 04 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Pictures from today on Baggy's Blog. First winter post of the season, hope he keeps it updated as best he can.
mountainmadness 04 Nov 2012
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
> (In reply to mountainmadness)
> [...]
>
> LOL

It was, honest!
playmobile 04 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Sorry I forgot the link

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk/
 CM1992 04 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Went too the Carneddau today and went up Cwmglas Spur, was a brilliant day out but obviously the snow was powdery and so I had to take care, I had no need for crampons but the axe was out from around 800m upwards. Hopefully will get a little bit of a thaw and refreeze going over the next few weeks.
I'm far too excited for the routes to properly come into condition especially after last year
 David Ponting 05 Nov 2012
In reply to rodw: Thanks for the report (and yes, we saw and avoided that cornice) - we decided, on finding out that there were more in the party that had used axes and crampons, to take winter gear and a rope and go and have a look to see how far we could get - we got over the difficulties of Crib Goch before the weather closed in, but some of the ridge up Ddysgl was rather "interesting" in 20ft visibility, and we were walking on bearings from there to the standing stone at the top of the Miner's track.

In retrospect, we should have turned back before the exposed step at the end of Crib Goch, because after that one is committed to pushing on (as we did) or returning over a very exposed descent that we would probably have had to abseil. Oh well, no-one was injured and everyone had a great time and wants to do more - success, but I feel we might be a little more cautious next time.

To the people who mentioned us to the Warden - thanks for your concern, but we're all fine (we reported in so that no-one was sent looking for us)! We cut short the original plan of the Horseshoe when we realised how slow the going on the ridge was, and were below the snowline on the Miner's track by 3:30. Actually the most treacherous section was the top of the Pig/Miner's tracks, since so many people had been over it that it was sheet ice, whereas Ddysgl was fresh snow...

General condition report: On the western Glyders (Mynydd Perfedd etc.), 2-3" of unconsolidated snow above 750m (mainly on north slopes) on Sunday; Main Glyder ridge looked from as distance like it was about the same as the Snowdon massif, i.e. snow from about 700m, significant accumulation (6"?) from 900m up. North ridge of Y Garn looked like it was starting to cornice up on the Ogwen side.
 David Ponting 05 Nov 2012
In reply to David Ponting: Oh, and that should say 3:30pm - we did not have nor were in any real danger of an all-night epic...
 MikeLell 05 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Photos from Sunday morning. Went up Y Gribin and onto Snowdon Summit then along Crib Goch and down the North Ridge. Complete snow cover from Bwlch Saethau upwards. Privacy setting on album is set to 'public' so hopefully can be seen by all.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151514070269689.593475.508429688&type=1&l=7d22b76...
 Webster 07 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Anybody ventured up snowdon recently to see if any of the white stuff has survived in the ridges or gullies?
 Joss 07 Nov 2012
In reply to Webster:

Washed away Im afraid.
In reply to Joss: Is the ground free of ice and snow up near the summit of Snowdon? I'm looking at getting in a late season descent of Snowdon on the bike and am concerned about the ground conditions near the top.
 RichJ634 07 Nov 2012
In reply to chrisclimber_1986: I haven't been up there, but conditions very warm at ground level today and warmish and wet last couple of days, so Id venture a guess that the summit will have thawed entirely. Depends on the temperature the night before your descent as to whether there is much ice id have thought.
In reply to Gob_Stopper:

anyone know what's happened to Hightrek's snow report - web link seems to be down ?
 muppetfilter 08 Nov 2012
In reply to chrisclimber_1986:
Is the ground free of ice and snow up near the summit of Snowdon? I'm looking at getting in a late season descent of Snowdon on the bike and am concerned about the ground conditions near the top.

Check out this for a snowy descent, ...

youtube.com/watch?v=P0GRlQOdvgs&

 Webster 26 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Forecast looks and sounds promising for next weekend! can anybody in the know tell me if its plausable that some of the ice routes in cwm idwal/devils kitchen will be climable by the weekend if it stays sub zero all week?
 monkeyboyraw 28 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Snows down to about 700m as of today. Crib Goch has a good covering and the temperature in the Pass is just tipping 2-3 degrees.
There may be some routes starting to come in in Cwm Cneifion. ANyone been over that way in the last few days?
 Big Lee 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Webster:

Devils Kitchen won't be formed by the weekend. Too soon. Likely the weekend after if temperatures stayed freezing.
 Banned User 77 28 Nov 2012
In reply to monkeyboyraw: Full moon is tomorrow night.. it'd be a stunning night for a climb as it looks like it could be clear.
crow-media 28 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Cwm Lloer an hour ago. Taken from Hiraethog,twenty miles away.

http://twitter.yfrog.com/4rckrbj
crow-media 28 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

and you might like to see what Yr Wyddfa- Snowdon- was looking like this -Wednesday- afternoon.
http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/2s8ky7j
 torquil 28 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: I just popped up for a quick look at crib goch, hoping that reades route may be in for tomorrow but its as black as a black thing. Trinity Face was looking whiter but the top was in cloud so couldn't see it all.
 Andy Mountains 28 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

I did Crib Goch today which was proper frozen up, crampons essential. Trinity face has a reasonable covering, but none of the turf will be anything like frozen yet.
Will blog and post some pics up later.
 Rob Johnson 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Bristly Ridge was good today. Turf freezing nicely above about 800m, lots of rime everywhere and the snow had refrozen overnight. It was sunny too!
 davegs 28 Nov 2012
Off out to Cwm Cnefion tomorrow to have a look round, will report back tomorrow.

P.S. if anyone fancies coming along drop me an email davegsa@gmail.com hoping to be at Ogwen Cottage for 8.45
 smuffy 28 Nov 2012
In reply to davegs: If conditions allow then I'm planning on an early start from the west midlands on Sunday. Would plan to be parking the car around 8am. More than happy to lead up to grade 3 or can be dragged up grade 4s. Probably going to be heading up alone or possibly with one other but any willing partners welcome.
 Andy Mountains 29 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Some pics from yesterday of Crib Goch, Trinity Face & The Glyders
http://andymountains.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/crib-goch-wed-28th-nov-2012.html

(Is this the thread we are using or the other one?)
 ben.m 29 Nov 2012
In reply to smuffy: I'm looking to get out Sunday. Have just sent an email to you.

Ben
 McGuinness 29 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: just been out to Ogwen. Cwm Cneifion looks like it's in decent nick but didn't have time to go up there. Did Banana Gully with some friends and it was great. Nice n hard and none of this wading through deep snow bollox! Other gullies look ok. Top of A looks bare though. Mixed routes should be going down if it goes a tad colder tonight. No ice routes forming whatsoever.
 mux 29 Nov 2012
In reply to McGuinness: Did you get a look at Clogwyn Ddu ?
 Adam Long 29 Nov 2012
In reply to mux:
> (In reply to McGuinness) Did you get a look at Clogwyn Ddu ?

"Cwm Cneifion looks like it's in decent nick but didn't have time to go up there"
 mux 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Adam Long: Thanks
 George_Surf 29 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

I'm hoping to get out on some winter routes tomorrow. Does anyone know where's going to be in the best condition? I'm looking for a few grade I/II routes and maybe even a grade III route? As far as I'm aware the good options are:

Y Garn - Bannana gully / C gully
Cwm Cneifion - Hidden Gully / Curver / Tower Gully / Tower Slabs
Craig Lloer - Left & Right Y Gully / Broad Gully

Is Cwm Cneifion going to be the best bet? Seems there's quite a bit to go at but i would rather go where the conditions are best.
 Rob Johnson 29 Nov 2012
Cwm Lloer was great today, nice crisp neve and plenty of rime on the crags. Breakable crust on the summits. Photos as usual on the blog.
 mr mills 29 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Clogwyn y Ddysgl looked in good nick today, from the road anyhow...
scrufff 29 Nov 2012
Drove back via Ogwen, it wasn't all that cold until it got dark

Y Garn: http://i.imgur.com/DkBg4.jpg
Cwm Cneifion: http://i.imgur.com/QAuLe.jpg
 George_Surf 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Rob Johnson:

from the photos on your blog (it's hard to make out) but cwm cneifion doesnt look very snowy or icy? y garn looks to have a bit more but your lightbox plugin isnt working properly so i cant enlarge the photos. what did glyder fach/ y garn look like to you from pen yr ole wen? were the y gullys or broad gully in cwm lloer looking ok?
 George_Surf 29 Nov 2012
In reply to scrufff:

fair enough, y garn looks like its had quite a bit of snow and cwm cneifion looks ok from 800m+
 Mike Peacock 29 Nov 2012
In reply to George_Surf:

Broad Gully and Y Gully (right hand I think) were both climbed today. I just went up the east ridge but the snow conditions were great. The turf was solid first thing in the morning.
 dgp 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock: At least 3 parties climbed banana gully. Great neve probably because it catches the sun - More freeze/thaw over last couple of days. A couple of photos:-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgpsharedphotos/8230825102/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgpsharedphotos/8229753251/in/photostream/


 davegs 29 Nov 2012
Was up in Cwm Cneifion today. Pretty good going from 800m.

Looked up Hidden Gully and was iced up quite well. Decided to go up Easy Gully instead, snow and turf fairly well frozen. Good hard crust on top of the Glyderau.

Clogwyn Ddu was carrying fair bit of frost.

Generally routes that don't depend on snow and are above 800m should be fair game this weekend.

As usual send you tweets with the hashtag #welshwinter
 Mike Peacock 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Few photos from yesterday:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/sets/72157632137461284/with/8232241252/

Did anyone else see the sun dog and 22 degree halo?
 mrchewy 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock: I did fella but no shots of it!!! There's been some amazing light this last couple of days.

I'll post this is in here as I posted it last night in Rob's thread.

"Went up Tryfan North Ridge on Wed, was nice and crisp from the Chancellor and then walked round Lliwedd and down Y Gribin today. The turf was frozen as you neared the summit and also at the top Y Gribin. Snow on the south side of Lliwedd was really nice. Trinity Face looked niiiice. Back in Northampton this evening but may drive back over tomorrow evening as the temps were falling as I left and I wanted a nose in Cwm Cnieffen - Wed and Thur were spent with a girl who's not been scrambling before, let alone out in the snow and it wouldn't have been fair to drag her were I wanted to go."
 mrchewy 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil: Only uploaded the scenery shots so far but may give people some psyche to get over there and enjoy the conditions. Hope it works.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152313909900581.927096.875840580&type=1&l=0beee29...
 Banned User 77 30 Nov 2012
In reply to mrchewy: How deep is the snow? Was hoping that the main paths on the glyders and the carneddau will be compacted or at least fairly runnable..

Surprised how much was frozen on Moel Lefn and Ogof last night.. no snow there though but only 660m.
 Mike Peacock 30 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK: The ridge from Pen yr Ole Wen to Dafydd yesterday wasn't fun. Hard crust that you then sank through. If enough people have been across (they hadn't yesterday) a decent trail may well have been blazed, or further freeze thaw might have properly hardened the snow.
 mrchewy 30 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK: The snow certainly needed a crampon in places as it was bullet hard and last nights temps and yesterday's sun will have only made it worse/better. It's deep on the Glyders but having never ran much on mountain snow, I don't know what to say really. Not that many people had been up there by Wed evening.
 Banned User 77 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock and Chewy: Thanks..

The plan is midnight start from either Aberglaslyn or Pont Caer Gors so I'll be on the Carneddau in the afternoon so was hoping that will have been walked in..

I'll have kahtoola crampons and an axe so should be OK if I need to be but was hoping to be without them as much as possible. Last time I found running in crampons destroyed my quads as it was too aggressive.

As the snow level is actually fairly high I'll only have snow for a few miles really so won't mind just walking. I was atcually thinking of returning to bwlch tryfan rather than down the W gully off Tryfan if it's too icey.. Ill see how it is looking.

Its a bit warmer today, 5 C in Nant at the moment.
 davegs 30 Nov 2012
Some pictures from yesterday's trip in to Cwm Cneifion and the Glyderau

http://bit.ly/SjPlvW
 torquil 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

I can confidently predict that it will all disappear by Monday as that is the next day that i am free
 JezH 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock: That's me doing Right-hand Y Gully in your photo's Cheers, I was wishing I'd had a camera.
 mrchewy 30 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK: I hope it all works out - best of luck Iain. West Gully off Tryfan looked pretty clean, just decent snow at the top on Wed and I did think about heading down it. Freeze thaw yesterday may have changed that.

May not help but there's more pics here http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152314132035581.927120.875840580&type=1&l=2f878bb...
 haydn 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:
Does anyone know whether Hourglass Gully in Cwm Fynnon Lloer is complete? I saw the comments in the other thread that Broad Gully is fairly committing, so just wondering if Hourglass is an easier option.
 Jones_88 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:
I went up crib goch last night ( left the car park around 7pmish)
THe first quarter of the ridge was dooable without crampons but then I had to put them on even though it was pretty bare as it was getting a bit slippy.
About half way- 2/3 of the way along the ridge there was a foot or two of snow in places possibly 3 where there were drifts.
Around 9:30pm it started snowing a bit and felt cold.
Didnt take my crampons off untill needed my snickers bar which was around 6/700 meters ( thats a rough guess as im not brilliant at working these things out.
It was +1 in the car park around midnight and raining but definately snowing higher up,there were a few little streams still flowing through the snow quite high up that crossed the pyg track.
Managed without using my axes just hobbled along with poles.
 Mike Peacock 30 Nov 2012
In reply to haydn: It was yesterday. It's less steep than Broad Gully, and isn't really a gully, more an open snow slope.
 Simon4 30 Nov 2012
In reply to mrchewy: Those look like a sprinkling of fresh, unconsolidated snow on top of rock, is that what is there?
 Andy Mountains 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

Right, anyone fancy hooking up tomorrow to climb something?
I was supposed to be in Lakes for weekend, but car woes put a stop to that Can borrow a car tomorrow morning, and meet up 10am ish, can't get there any sooner than that.
Anyone interested? I have full rack & rope.
Message me through here or text/phone 07879 877763. I'll keep an eye on my emails.
 Tony the Blade 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

I've put some pictures on twitter... #welshwinter
 steve-grigg 30 Nov 2012
Went up central trinity gully and right hand trinity gully. Central was a pleasant solo on good snow, in current conditions a nice grade 1. Right hand trinity was a lot more powdery, the lack of any ice and the turf not being very frozen meant it was quite a bit tougher. Climbed then all as a 3 with these being one of the party's 1st winter routes.
 jezb1 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Got anything in mind Andy? Thinking of heading out tomorrow.
 Andy Say 30 Nov 2012
In reply to steve-grigg:
> Went up central trinity gully and right hand trinity gully. Central was a pleasant solo on good snow, in current conditions a nice grade 1. Right hand trinity was a lot more powdery, the lack of any ice and the turf not being very frozen meant it was quite a bit tougher. Climbed then all as a 3 with these being one of the party's 1st winter routes.

You'll be the team I was talking to in the Bryn this evening? Got to admit I'm surprised that Central is consolidated; I'd have expected powder on scree! Good effort.
 Cadairmanuk 30 Nov 2012
In reply to torquil:

I was out on Y Garn today Banana gully was mint. Really good conditions. Frozen well from around the 750m mark. freezing again now in southern snowdonia tonight so something should be doable. No ice about and forget about idwal stream no ice formation what so ever. Plenty to have a play with high up. Enjoy and stay safe.

Ben
 mrchewy 30 Nov 2012
In reply to Simon4: All consolidated snow - really surprised myself to find it like that. Gutted I'm home to be honest.
 Andy Mountains 01 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Webcams this morning make for grim viewing.
In reply to Andy Mountains: Why's that Andy? I'm on my phone and can't see them!

Mike
 smuffy 01 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Snowdon and Oggie webcams look no different than they did yesterday? Whats your point?
 steve-grigg 01 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Say: yeah that's us, wrote the post while we were there. Parts of it were powdery but others were really good quality, it was a lot butter than some of the stuff I was doing in Scotland over last New Years
 Andy Mountains 01 Dec 2012
In reply to smuffy:
> (In reply to Andy Mountains) Snowdon and Oggie webcams look no different than they did yesterday? Whats your point?

Really? Just looked pretty stripped was my point.
 sleavesley 01 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Didn't look that way on the South view of Snowdon on http://www.eryri-npa.gov.uk/visiting/snowdon-webcam (it is live but snow cover was low this morning).
 Andy Mountains 01 Dec 2012
In reply to sleavesley:

Good news! Can't wait to hear what folk have been up to today
 CarolineMc 01 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Been in Cwm Lloer today, good snow from just above the Llyn. We did hourglass and it was nice all the way up. Were going to drop into the headwall and go up Col Gully after lunch but the wind picked up late morning and coupled with some snowfall it seemed pretty loaded as we dropped over the lip so we went back up and just traversed round and off. Generally the snow was pretty firm from about 700m. Other parties were on Broad Gully and Y Gully as well as a few coming up the loaded back slopes toward the cairn. A really good day and conditions excelled expectations! Co:
 Misha 01 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:
Late start so plodded up to the Trinity Face. I went up Trinity LH, snow half frozen, sometimes surprisingly firm but sometimes disappearing up to the thighs. Hard work! Mates went up Central and it was a bit better. Nice wintry atmosphere up on the face and good to take the gear for a walk even of the rope and pro stayed in the sack! Didn't feel that cold, I guess just below freezing on the face. 2 degrees at Pen y Pass at 5.30pm.
 steve-grigg 01 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: went up into cwm cniefon 2day. Lots of ice and rime starting to plaster the rock faces above about 750m. Clogyn du looked very white and in great nick but on closet inspection the turf wasn't quite frozen enough on the first pitch of most routes. Soloed up a gully to the right of right hand branch which was unfrozen with some moves of technical grade 3, then about half way up the cliff headed onto the main face at the far right edge of the crag and found some amazing ice, neve and frozen turf! Climbed what would appear to be a new line with 2 short pitches of about grade III 3. Will post some photos when I get the chance 2 see if anybody knows if its been climbed before. In general the hard mixed lines on the crag looked in great shape for anybody who is capable of the grade.
In reply to steve-grigg: cwm lloer today, did great gully and Y gully right. Suprisingly consolidated snow. Really good neve on 2nd half and finish of Y gully right.
In reply to Double Knee Bar:

Both Broad Gully and Right Hand Y Gully on Cwm Lloer were great today.
 Banned User 77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to mrchewy: finished the paddy buckley in 25.5 hrs. Only the second solo unsupported winter round.

Snow was very consolidated on snowdon, tryfan was very icey, but the carneddau was still a think crust over deep snow.. that killed me.

More snow fell last night, I was in quite a blizzard in the moelwyns.
 goatee 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK: A great achievement. Well done.
 jezb1 02 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: is anything being climbed yet? By which I mean stuff worth pitching as opposed to the easier gullys and plods.
 haydn 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
Excellent, congratulations.
 Andy Mountains 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Wow! Awesome achievement Iain!!!
 richprideaux 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Well done mate!

(from one of the two MRT lads who slowed you down on the Carneddau)
 WILLS 02 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: great achievement Ian.
Any sign of ice starting to form. He says clutching a file!
 McGuinness 02 Dec 2012
Anyone getting out tomorrow want to meet up and do a route/gully?
 Steve Perry 02 Dec 2012
In reply to McGuinness: I'm up for it but the forecast doesn't look too good.
 RichardP 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
Well done mate
 Steve Perry 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK: Great effort, well done.
 Wesley Orvis 02 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Well done, must be some boy.
 steveej 02 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: did left hand trinity, central trinity and right hand trinity yesterday. Central has good neve and is safe, left hand is a bit powdery but safe, right hand is loose and turf unfrozen - more like Scottish 4 in that a few of the steps are a bit precarious with what I would describe as loose scree axe hooking covered in power. Still easy 4 and doable. Take rock gear.
 Banned User 77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to shingsowa: Ahh, I remember you guys, sorry I wasn't too chatty, that snow was starting to really p*ss me off by then..

Stunning afternoon though.
 Banned User 77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to steveej: I was amazed how good the neve was on Snowdon. When I read routes had been done I didn't think they could be in until I actually saw the snow.
 johnyo 02 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1:

Was out today and climbed Cleft Gully on Clogwyn Du and Golden Girl Ali on the opposite side of the cwm. Both in really good condition.

Also climbed were Blenderhead, Travesty and Hidden Gully had a few ascents.
In reply to torquil: conditions on clogwyn du were fantastic today. Did hidden gully with the right hand finish (felt like grade 3 finishing past the chockstone, id take a rope and both axes if i was to do it again) Good ice and frozen turf throughout.
davo77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar:
A friend of mine did hidden gully today, said it was awesome!!
Im wanting to head up nest weekend if anyone is up for a mooch up a gully or two!!
message me if anyone fancies partnering up for a reckie
In reply to davo77: Hey Davo. helps to get partners on here if you complete your profile a bit. People cant really see what level you want to climb at.
 Solaris 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Fantastic, Iain. As I wandered along above Cwm Ffynon Lloer in the unconsolidated snow from last night, I was thinking of you and hoping for your sake that you had more firm conditions.

What an achievement! Well done.
davo77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar:
Cheers buddy i will update now, only just come on here so im getting into the knowhow of how its done.
cheers
 PontiusPirate 02 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

And congratulations from me to Iain R as well - I think you'll find *that* is the very definition of a big day out!

Inspiring stuff.

PP.
davo77 02 Dec 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar:
To be fair im pretty new at the ice & gully treking game but im trying to get out as much as possible when it gets in to condition, iv got a couple of mates who are a bit more knowledgable than me but they are younger & have no kids so there out all the time lol.
I wouldnt mind who i went with, im a safe person to be around & get stuck right in.
 dgp 02 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK: Never having run fells in my life I googled 'Paddy Buckley' to find out what this is all about. Wow , I can't imagine anyone wanting to run that distance over all those peaks in mid summer let alone in 25 hours in dark December under snow cover. What a fantastic achievment. It would be good to read a bit more about the trip, details and times.
 Misha 03 Dec 2012
In reply to steveej:
We saw someone (perhaps your party) on Trinity RH on Saturday afternoon. It looked messy. At least with Central and LH it was just a case of plodding/wading and not churning up the turf.

Another half day bimble today, this time to Cwm Lloer - thanks to the people who posted about decent conditions. We weren't disappointed for the time of year. Went up Y Gully RH and the snow was pretty firm underfoot (not bullet hard neve of course but no wading). LH looked good as well and there were a few other feasible mini gully lines on the upper half of the crag. The rimed up craglets just below the summit of Pen Yr Ole Wen provided good sport for a bit of mixed 'bouldering'. Wish we'd gone here on Saturday (and Clogwyn Ddu today... but for various reasons it didn't happent, next time!).
 FrankBooth 03 Dec 2012
In reply to Misha:
I did Central Gully around midday. Snow was a bit soft/powdery, but consistent all the way up - a steady plod. Should be good id we get a few 'freeze-thaw' cycles.
 mcdougal 03 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Incredible achievement! Well done, Iain. The snow on the Carneddau yesterday wasn't fit for walking let alone running. Congratulations.
 Fiskavaig 03 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Did Broad Gully,cwm lloer, Sunday,one tricky move over chockstone,snow firm low down, but soft and powder higher up.
 Mr-Cowdrey 03 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: is there any ice forming yet anywhere? Looking at heading up for the weekend.
 George_Surf 03 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

has it all gone today?
 mux 03 Dec 2012
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey:I was up on Clogwyn Ddu on sunday There wasnt alot of useful ice around, just the odd runnel here and there. I would pick and choose apropriate mixed stuff if heading up. Make sure the turf is frozen though, some of the lower stuff wasnt what I would call climbable.

Weather looks promising though so finger x'd.

 Rampikino 03 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

UPDATE FROM CWM LLOER TODAY (MONDAY)

I was hoping to take a bimble up Y Garn today, but when I got into the valley I realised that it was unlikely, so I headed up into Cwm Lloer instead.

Snow was not that bad actually, plenty of it around and it was quite sheltered so holding reasonably well. Good to stay out of the wind too.

I headed up Broad Gully which was not as wet and slushy as I thought it would be - quite firm actually, but is starting to break up in the warmer weather. The tricky step low down was quite bare and running wet - not an easy move with one walking axe and certainly not the kind of move you would normally find on I/II.

I headed down Hourglass Gully which was in quite good condition - compact snow and plenty of it (more than it looked from distance).

Not sure how long the snow will last with the temperatures rising - there isn't much ice around and it did feel quite warm up there.

Good luck all.
 Dan Lane 03 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

I was hoping to get on on Wednesday after my early lecture to somewhere which is accessible by public transport from Bangor but it sounds like stuff won't be in too good a shape by then...

I'm looking for:
grade I ideally, either gully or ridge.
accessible by public transport from Bangor (Bethesda and Llanberis are dead easy, but it would take me until 12o'clock to get to Pen Y Pass)
and most importantly, in some sort of vague condition!
I don't mind walking out in the dark, as long as I can get the actually route done in daylight.

Anyone got any suggestions, or should I just go for a walk?

Thanks
Dan
 Styx 03 Dec 2012
Any idea what the paths up Snowdon are currently like? A bumbly mate of mine who has no winter hardware is asking me if any of the routes (maybe Llanberis path?) would be "ok" tomorrow or Weds.

My gut feeling is to tell him not to bother but I figured I'd check just in case I'm completely wrong and the rain has melted away any snow/ice cover and everthing's black again...
 Mike Peacock 03 Dec 2012
In reply to Dan Lane: Don't forget that you can always try hitching; it's a reasonably effective way to get around once you're into places like Bethesda and Llanberis. Just walk to the edge of town so you're out of the centre.
 McGuinness 03 Dec 2012
In reply to Styx: a bit of ice up the top of snowdon. Would be quite slippy underfoot without some crampons or kahtoola type things.
 Jon Ratcliffe 04 Dec 2012
Can anyone tell me how low the snow line was? I presume it was receding with the warmer temps, but by how much? (More for skis or board than climbing)
Thanks
 Mr-Cowdrey 04 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: has anyone ventured up to the black ladders area? Is central or pyramid gully in condition yet, or likely to be in condition by the weekend?
 steveej 04 Dec 2012
In reply to Jon Ratcliffe: On saturday, the snow line was 705m in the Snowdon range.

Waking up on Sunday, the snow line looked even lower as it had been falling overnight.
In reply to Mr-Cowdrey: there was a big thaw sunday night. Snow line was a lot higher when i left yesterday. There were ascents in Cwm Lloer yesterday though.
 Dan Lane 04 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Now then, I've got a couple of ideas about tomorrow...Can anyone tell me what sort of state the gullies on the Trinity Face and in Cwm Lloer are like?

Cheers
Dan
 torquil 04 Dec 2012
On snowdon today, hoping some of the mixed routes may have been in up high but not looking good so we plodded up central trinity and down end gully to check conditions but the turf was unfrozen right to the summit and it felt really warm- a surprising amount of snow around still though and more falling at the moment. Will be good if temps drop as predicted.
 Joss 05 Dec 2012
In reply to:

If I was off this week Id get on the mixed stuff, ie rocky ridges. North East Spur of y Garn (aka Garn East Ridge summer scramble,) Bristly Ridge, Dolmen Ridge, Clogwyn Y Person Arete would all make fantastic days in such conditions where snow and ice routes are poor/not in proper nick.
 JRae 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Complete novice to welsh winter here. Any advice on what's likely to be in on the weekend around IV / V?
 Andy Mountains 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Anyone up for getting out tomorrow? (weather looks pretty harsh mind)
 Tim Davies 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

I skied the carneddau today. Skis on at the bottom of foel fras. Excellent cover on the tops, even on the bouldery slopes of carnedd Llewelyn. Walking would have been a nightmare!

Descent north off foel fras a bit disappointing- clumps of grass poking through.

A stunning day.
In reply to torquil: Looking at heading to trinity face super early tomorrow morning.. anybody get up that high today?
 Big Lee 05 Dec 2012
In reply to JRae:

Same question. Mixed routes around V/VI. Am guessing Clogwyn Du maybe good for weekend? Not seen any recent photos but guessing there isn't enough snow to properly insulate the turf from a freeze over the next few days? Met office showing cold temps on the run up to the weekend (MWIS slightly warmer). Would be good not to have to travel to Scotland this weekend...
 sam benson 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Popped out this afternoon and found the conditions below at 3pm

Ogwen cottage 3'C went onto Y Garn and climbed bannana gully
Small lakes not fully frozen in the bowl very mild and the rain / snowfall last night was polystyrene balls with fresh snow over the older stuff. new snow 4 to 6 inches in places slight crust and lots of loose snow rolling down.
Dug a small pit to ground level this was not frozen, found no frozen turf anywhere.
descent by devils kitchen , lots of running water at all levels.
cold wind on the tops
 Steve Perry 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Be good to hear what conditions were like today off anybody out climbing, I see that Travesty was done in the Glyders, good effort.
Hoping to climb tomorrow though forecast looks windy but gonna take a look.
 Steve Perry 05 Dec 2012
In reply to sam benson: Cheers for that.
 torquil 05 Dec 2012
Lots of snow unconsolidated powder over rock up around Crib Goch - unfrozen turf pretty much everywhere until the very end of the day when thing were starting to freeze up, the path back to PYP was iced solid at 5pm. A beautiful day but it was hard and scary climbing conditions, better when the snow consolidates a bit or the ice builds up. North side of crib goch was totally hoared up and white.
davo77 05 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains:
> (In reply to torquil)
>
> Anyone up for getting out tomorrow? (weather looks pretty harsh mind)

are you around sat/sunday for a big climb?
 Dan Lane 05 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

I headed up to the Trinity Face today...

lots of fairly deep, powdery, sugary snow and pretty much no crust to speak of other than bits of partially frozen ice over rocks and the like.

I intended to do Central Trinity but got bored of swimming through waist deep powder extremely quickly. I can down and did End Gully. This was better but still not great! Needs a few days to consolidate but tonight's going to be cold...a lot of the slush had frozen on the Llanberis path as I walked off at 4:30/5pm.
In reply to torquil:
Pretty much ditto previous comments on conditions. Wading around in unconsolidated ball bearings on approach to hidden gully; spotted and snapped climbers on travesty - Tom Livingstone I presume ?! ... sorry couldn't resist Hidden gully was thin but interesting, hardening up and ice forming nearer the top. Definitely icing up as we descended off Y Garn.
 jshields 06 Dec 2012
In reply to sam benson: Thanks Sam good info.
Cheers,
Jon
 Steve Perry 06 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: I went to do RH Trinity today, the weather was full on. By the Pyg track/Miners track junction, we decided to abandon the climbing but pushed on for a walk to the summit. Sections of the track are now totally banked out with snow (soft) and there are inches and inches of it fallen today.
 mr mills 06 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Raining heavily at Pen y Pass 4.30pm, temp 4deg....
 McGuinness 06 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: anyone fancy trying something up in cwm cneifion/clogwyn du tomorrow morning/early afternoon? Conditions aren't perfect but I'm sure something mixed will work...
 Andy Mountains 06 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Report by my friend Carl today: Bristly Ridge, Glyders, Clogwyn Ddu: http://andymountains.blogspot.co.uk/
 Big Lee 06 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Latest Baggy update isn't great reading:

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk/
 Andy Mountains 07 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

I see that Ian Parnell & his partner Jon Winter climbed Mankini (VI,7) on Clogwyn Ddu yesterday.
 George_Surf 07 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

wandered up to the bottom of y garn yesterday with the intention of doing either c gully or banana gully. the conditions were terrible and by about 11am the wind had really picked up and it was snowing a lot, there was a lot of spindrift whirling around the gullys. the snow was knee deep graupel, very soft and very loose. when we got to the bottom of banana gully small spindrift avalanches were running down it so we turned back and walked down, cold and wet!

In reply to jandyd05:

Hey,

Did you get any good photos?! Unfortunately neither me nor my partner brought our cameras, despite the moves from the belay being some of the most photogenic in North Wales!

Thanks, and hope you had a good day in the hills.

Tom
 jezb1 07 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Been for a stroll in Ogwen today. Went up Seniors Ridge which was powdery and not so much fun. Very windy and on / off hail.

Air temp was quite warm, lots of melting occurring I think.
 RichJ634 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1: Anyone else been out today? I drove through the pass this morning and this evening whilst commuting. Snow level looked to have a dropped a bit during the day, although some of the rock higher up looked blacker. :-/
 George_Surf 07 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

heading out tomorrow, most likely ogwen valley, i'm thinking cwm cneifion. looking for routes between I-III, is anything likely to be climbable, any recommendations? cheers, george
 RichJ634 07 Dec 2012
In reply to George_Surf: In that grade range I think you'll be struggling unless you go for a ridge route. Steeper mixed climbs maybe ok, but I suspect gully routes will be a wade fest, and likely not all turf will be frozen.
 Andy Mountains 07 Dec 2012
In reply to George_Surf:

Routes like Tower Rib, Cneifion Arete, Clogwyn y Person Arete, East Ridge of Y Garn... etc are probably the way to go. Steer clear of gullies I think as reports suggest turf is most definitely unfrozen, and they are loaded with a good foot or two of graupel (from what I have been told, not a first hand report unfortunately)
Incidentally I am looking for a partner for tomorrow, but won't be arriving at Ogwen (or wherever) until midday (due to parental responsibilities)
 jezb1 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Cneifion arete was a long long way from being in today. Tower rib may have been ok, it was in the cloud but the rock near the summits was still hoared up. It was a warm day. Looking across to Y Garn when the cloud cleared occasionally would suggest that that would also be out of condition.

I imagine Clogwyn Ddu is still worth a shout.
 Frank Blakeley 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1: Has anyone been in Cwm Lloer today if so how are the Gullies looking mainly Broad Gully thinking of heading there in the morning, any info would be appreciated

Frank
 Andy Mountains 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1:

The thing is Jez people will (understandably) be out climbing the lower grade 'winter' routes over the weekend no matter what conditions reports say. So if 'out of condition' ridges are climbed as opposed to gullies where turf & endangered plants can be harmed, then that is always going to be a good thing.
(That was kind of the point behind my comment)
 jezb1 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Not wanting to sound grumpy but I'd rather people don't climb stuff when it's so far out of condition regardless of if it's rock or turf....
 Joss 07 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1:
> Cneifion arete was a long long way from being in.
>
Its not a winter route anyway lol. Goes all year without axes.
 Joss 07 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains:
> (In reply to jezb1)
>
> The thing is Jez people will (understandably) be out climbing the lower grade 'winter' routes over the weekend no matter what conditions reports say. So if 'out of condition' ridges are climbed as opposed to gullies where turf & endangered plants can be harmed, then that is always going to be a good thing.
> (That was kind of the point behind my comment)
>

Keep it up Andy. Good Advice.

 George_Surf 07 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

im not going to do something for the sake of it, just wandering if anyone has seen/knows what's vaguely in at the moment. thought the gullies might be rubbish because of the bad snow, is there any chance it might freeze hard overnight? tower rib is an option, isn't the NE spur of y garn too low to be in?

OR does anyone have any suggestions apart from cwm cneifion? the snow on trinity will be terrible right? C gully on y garn?.....
In reply to George_Surf: it'll be a case of suck it and see tomorrow. Just be flexible. Was going to do seniors ridge last sun but it was as black as a black thing when we got to it, so we went into the cwm and found frozen turf, ice and rime all over hidden gully right hand. Cneifion arete had no rime on it then never mind now.
I think tomorrow will be a walk with the added bonus of a route if we find something thats in nick.
 pepperpot 08 Dec 2012
In reply to freakyboy777:

Did Broad Gully on Wednesday. A good day out but it couldn't be described as in good nick. Bit a swim in places but there were sections that were getting there, and places where something approaching front pointing was possible. The little step a third of the way up was frozen, but not that solid.

But, what can I day? A rare day out in winter for me so it was all good!!
 tipsy 08 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: andy I've sent you an email. I'm out solo around clogwyn du so give me a call if you want to hook up.
 RichJ634 08 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Very poor conditions today in the hills. I'll be astounded if anything is in tomorrow. Wet, slushy snow at all levels, and rain falling at all levels by the end of the day.
In reply to Gob_Stopper:

Thanks for the info. Where did you go today? Do you think higher winter mixed crags will still be white, from what you saw today? Cheers
 RichJ634 08 Dec 2012
In reply to Tom Livingstone: Hi Tom. Don't want to be the bringer of bad news but from what I've seen today and from the met office forecast I very much doubt anything will be white tomorrow. Might be able to salvage a route on one of the ridges but not sure much else will be in nick.
We did Bristly Ridge today. Conditions very poor really. I'd say above 800m the rock started to look whiter but still not very white, and below that it was completely stripped. Snow cover on slopes and tops was 1 - 2ft deep, but soft and slushy at all levels. And just as we topped out it started to rain so I'd imagine some of what has held on will have been washed away.
Forecast looks much better next week so fingers crossed.

 RichJ634 08 Dec 2012
In reply to Tom Livingstone: Re-reading that it sounds a bit negative! Might be worth the look but just my impression of things. Didn't get a look at Clogwyn Du or any of the other more reliable venues - possible something may have held on there by tomorrow?
In reply to Gob_Stopper:

Thanks for that. Suspicions have been confirmed - too warm! Virtually every forecast I've looked at showed a different result, so that's why I asked for 'eyes on the ground' beta. If I go out tomorrow I'll be expecting to turn around empty handed! Still, as you say, things should improve throughout next week.
 mux 08 Dec 2012
In reply to Tom Livingstone: tom was there today .. have a pint .. relax .. and wait for monday ...
Left in the rain ..v warm but it needs a strip ..verglas city today .. not nice
 Joss 08 Dec 2012
Got up to Cwm Cneifion today before the weather turned to shit with very low vis then rain. Shame as it was a sunny blue sky when we entered the Cwm. Very soft snow on approach to the Tower area. We bumped into some friends who had a better day up there a few hours ahead of us before the clag came down. To our suprise they reported good snow in the headwall gullies (Left Corner and Easy gullies) No sub zero forecast till monday/tuesday with tuesday actually looking good.
Visited black ladders today with eastern gully in mind. Snow conditions were poor sinking up to the waist in slushy snow, we pulled the plug at the start on the gully as I couldn't have imagined the snow being better on the steeper part of the gully. Still any day in the hills is a good one.
 MarkDerby 09 Dec 2012
> (In reply to jezb1) Has anyone been in Cwm Lloer today if so how are the Gullies looking mainly Broad Gully thinking of heading there in the morning, any info would be appreciated
>
> Frank

Too late now I reckon but yesterday morning in Cwm Lloer was really good. We climbed Y Gully right hand, traversed over to the Headwall then came down again and climbed Hourglass. Snow was firmer than last weekend and there was good cover. Didn't fancy Y Left Hand though as it looks like it relies on frozen turf which there wasn't any sign of. By 3pm the clag was down, it was raining and the snow was melting. The short scramble near the bottom of the East ridge was running water under the snow. Quite a few folk on Hourglass and Broad Gullies; skiers on the Headwall and snowboarders on slopes above the lake. Yesterday certainly rewarded the early starters!

In reply to MarkDerby: I agree, I was also in cwm lloer early yesterday morning, ( did you park behind me, I was only car there at 6 30! Fell asleep for an hour) walked in at 7 30 and rewarded with some good conditions, I also did hourglass and y gully right then walked out about midday when it was getting busy and slushy , guessing now it may be wet and slushy but forecast is better for the coming week
 Rory Shaw 09 Dec 2012
In reply to climber34neil: raining and warm now but what snow survives should be nice when the next cold spell arrives sunday night
 MarkDerby 09 Dec 2012
In reply to climber34neil:
> (In reply to MarkDerby) I agree, I was also in cwm lloer early yesterday morning, ( did you park behind me, I was only car there at 6 30! Fell asleep for an hour) walked in at 7 30 and rewarded with some good conditions, I also did hourglass and y gully right then walked out about midday when it was getting busy and slushy , guessing now it may be wet and slushy but forecast is better for the coming week

Could well have been us Neil! Took a while to summon up the enthusiasm for the walk up to the cwm but glad we did.

 Frank Blakeley 09 Dec 2012
In reply to MarkDerby: Cheers Mark i was probably one of the teams you saw on Broad Gully yesterday, conditions felt really good..
 MarkDerby 09 Dec 2012
In reply to freakyboy777: Glad to hear you went for it. The roadside outlook wasn't great but the first glimpse of Craig Lloer put the smiles back on our faces.
 Tony Sparks 09 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Got to say that Im saddened at the amount of people getting out on Clogwyn Du just because its rimed. I know some of the harder routes are glorified dry tool routes anyway but Ive just read Andy Mountains blog where someone got out yesterday on Torquing Shit admitting complete unconsolidation in the snow and turf, with no ice. Climbing 2 pitches in one of the most ecologically delicate and sensitive parts of the cliff.

Dont you guys read the white guide? Your effect on the flora and fauna up there is devastating, and publishing your climbs just encourages others to "have a go anyway, despite poor conditions".
Not only that its trashing routes for when the conditions do get right- potentially only a few days wait away.

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/north-wales-white-guide

Take a look at the guide,even better- go up there in summer to see the absolute mess your picks and crampons have made of Manx Wall etc.

In reply to Tony Sparks: Where does he admit the turf wasn't frozen? Couldn't see that on Andy's blog anywhere. If the turfs frozen and its properly rimed up I cant see the problem. Id imagine the turf was well frozen on clogwyn du yesterday. Turf was well frozen on 2nd half of bristly ridge.
 Tony Sparks 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar:
> (In reply to Tony Sparks) Where does he admit the turf wasn't frozen? Couldn't see that on Andy's blog anywhere. If the turfs frozen and its properly rimed up I cant see the problem. Id imagine the turf was well frozen on clogwyn du yesterday. Turf was well frozen on 2nd half of bristly ridge.

I was out there yesterday morning. Walked up soft snow right up to Clogwyn Du to take a look at right hand before descending and climbed over Seniors, believe me the turf wasnt and isnt frozen yesterday or today.
In reply to Tony Sparks:
Fair enough if you were there, thought you were just going off what was on the blog post.
 jezb1 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Tony Sparks:
> (In reply to torquil)
>
> Got to say that Im saddened at the amount of people getting out on Clogwyn Du just because its rimed. I know some of the harder routes are glorified dry tool routes anyway but Ive just read Andy Mountains blog where someone got out yesterday on Torquing Shit admitting complete unconsolidation in the snow and turf, with no ice. Climbing 2 pitches in one of the most ecologically delicate and sensitive parts of the cliff.
>
> Dont you guys read the white guide? Your effect on the flora and fauna up there is devastating, and publishing your climbs just encourages others to "have a go anyway, despite poor conditions".
> Not only that its trashing routes for when the conditions do get right- potentially o nly a few days wait away.
>
> http://www.thebmc.co.uk/north-wales-white-guide
>
> Take a look at the guide,even better- go up there in summer to see the absolute mess your picks and crampons have made of Manx Wall etc.

Well said.
 RichJ634 09 Dec 2012
In reply to jezb1:

Guys, don't particularly disagree but this is a conditions thread not an ethics thread.
 mrchewy 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Gob_Stopper: It is a conditions thread but lately it does seem that people are unwilling to take a walk in, have a look for themselves and make the decision to climb or not on what they see on the ground that day.
Obviously it's easier for those who live in Wales to have a jaunt up the hill to look, to report back and I for one am grateful for threads like this when I have a 7hr round trip to negotiate. All this thread does tho, is tell me there might be a chance to climb when I get there - conditions still have to be analysed and just because I've driven a long way on my only day off doesn't mean I should be climbing when a route is marginal.
That's not an ethics comment - it's all about the conditions and protecting a resource that brings great pleasure to many.
 mux 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Gob_Stopper: just to add to the debate. I dont think that guy was on talking shit ..

Because my mate was ..and he said there were no signs of anyone before him. He also said the turf was fine until the thaw hit ..at which point he abbed off. Beacause he like me agrees on looking after the ecology

 A Crook 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Tony Sparks:

Good of you to promote the hard work done by a friend of mine on this topic. should be read by all.

But I don't think it says don't climb because you scratch the rock anywhere in it! but hey ho.

To add to the debate on 'Torquing Shit'. I did it yesterday and it was in nick; iced up nicely with rime. Turf frozen. I must admit that we saw no one else on it all day, and the snow had a good pack of wind slab on it. So I think our friend may have been mistaken about the route he was on. But hey ho. It was a great day out and a nice route too, well until it thawed and it began to rain, so we bailed quick sharp, as any conscientious winter warrior should do.
 Tony Sparks 09 Dec 2012
In reply to A Crook;
So was in nick to start but you bailed off when the turf thawed?? Hmm Ok,
Either you were on it or he was on it... Someones Torquing Shit!
 A Crook 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Tony Sparks:
Yes its great when the route name fits the controversy.

No we bailed of when the ice thawed. The turf was still solid under its protective layer of snow.
 zero six 09 Dec 2012
In reply to Tony Sparks:
From what I can gather, you've read a blog about a solo which didn't happen, and combined that with your experience from a look at the start of RH gully, and have gone on to make 5 from 2+2. You're also saying:
The 'mess' (your opinion) that picks have made to Manx Wall and other routes.
'The devastating effect mixed climbers are having on the flora and fauna(!) on Clogwyn Du'.
.. Plus some minor side-line whining about 'glorified dry tool routes' and climbers not reading Si Panton's/CCW's excellent The White Guide.

In reality.. The snow was unconsolidated at the base of Clogwyn Du on Saturday (the one thing you do get correct) but luckily it was also a metre or more deep on the Pillar Chimney approach ramp in the lower reaches of the crag. The only unfrozen turf we encountered during the day was digging through the deep snow just beneath the little chimney/step on the approach ramp pitch to get to the belay at the base of Manx Wall - this didn't concern us because we weren't climbing on turf on the approach ramp - we were walking up deep steep snow.
I can promise you that on Manx Wall we didn't encounter a single piece of unfrozen turf because the climbing was either on good neve, softer snow (which was deep on any significant ledge), rock, or solidly frozen turf where it was exposed i.e. on the traverse left where Manx Wall joins El Mancho. I can't think of a single placement I made where I ripped a piece of soft turf out. That's actually quite unusual even for when the turf is exposed and well-frozen.
Had we encountered unfrozen turf on the route rest assured that I and the two people I was with do care enough not to want to damage - the turf (or the fauna, haha!), our own reputations, or other mixed climber's right to climb in the area. We're all experienced enough and I believe responsible enough to know when to call it. Don't need advice from someone who wasn't on the same part of cliff and who was on a completely different type of terrain - i.e. a low-angled snow covered gully/slope.

You're right to be concerned about climbing unfrozen routes. I too think it's an important issue and that we need to to reinforce good habits and try to create a culture where bad practice is reduced as much as possible. But before people cast aspersions on ukc you should be aware of the dynamics of the cliff. If you look at what you encountered on RH gully it illustrates how conditions often are in early season on Clogwyn Du - your route was an easy-angled gully/slope full of metres-deep thawing snow. In this sort of terrain the turf will always remain unfrozen for longer than on steep terrain where there's less sitting snow. As I said, on the easy-angled approach ramp to Manx Wall we found soft turf underneath the deep snow, so I'm not surprised you found your gully route out of condition. The turf on the cliff face however was frozen where it was exposed and, where it was buried, it was buried deeply enough that we climbed on snow not unfrozen buried turf. The second pitch of the route was totally plastered in hard neve - I've never climbed the top wall in that condition - by being able to kick steps in the neve rather than balance picks and front points on rock (but no gear for Dave!).

'The devastating effect mixed climbers are having on flora fauna'. ??? That sounds a bit hysterical to me - a more accurate statement would be: '..the potential for 'devastation' (in your words) that mixed climbers might have were they to climb exposed unfrozen turf...
..Unless you're aware of destruction of flora on Clogwyn Du that you want to bring to our attention?

I assume you've read the summary from the last CCW survey of Clogwyn Du which states found 'the condition of the ledge and crack system vegatation did not look to have been affected'. habitat? http://www.thebmc.co.uk/winter-climbing-conservation-impact

Of course that means we need to remain cautious of when and where we climb but dubious proclamations of damage, by people reading blogs and who weren't even on the piece of cliff that they're talking about, help nobody.

As for your other 'points' (whines?):
Don't we read the White Guide? - Everyone I winter climb with reads/has read it. it's an excellent resource and I think unique to Welsh winter climbing. As I type it's on the table next to my guidebook.

Fauna?! - which fauna are you referring to? The pair of Ravens looked to be having a good time breaking into climbers' packs to steal sweeties.

Glorified dry tooling routes? - a frustrating case of semantics which is unique (as far as I know) to the UK. The term 'dry tool' holds no emotional baggage anywhere else I know of except for the UK, where it seems to be used pejoratively by gully-bashing dinosaurs. Get over it snow-plodders, gully-bashers and ice-climbers, picks on rock is dry tooling as you point out, even if the rock is rimed. Part of 'mixed climbing' is therefore dry tooling if that's how you wish to frame it and it's forever been thus, dry tooling isn't a dirty word except to people who don't know how to climb in winter if it isn't a frozen watercourse or a snow-filled gully. The issue confuses punters in the UK - perhaps because they have trouble making the distinction between bolted dry-tooling on low level training crags and 'legitimate' mixed-climbing on mountain crags which, despite being a different game with a different name, still sometimes involves picks on rock instead of in ice or snow. Have you ever tried climbing any of the routes you dismiss as 'glorified dry tooling' to give any weight to your opinion?




 dgp 09 Dec 2012
 zero six 09 Dec 2012
In reply to dgp:
What on earth is that supposed to suggest? By showing a photo of a snowdon lily are you implying, in the words of the other poster, that the effect mixed climbers have had on the 'flora and fauna' of Clogwyn Du has been 'devastating'?
 mrchewy 09 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six: Maybe this was the thoughts behind the photo http://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-death-of-the-snowdon-lily
 dgp 09 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:

Do you really have to be so aggresive with your comments ?.

You asked a question about the effect of winter climbing in thin conditions on the flora of Snowdonia. I was just reminding climbers (who may not be familiar with the situation) of the delicate arctic alpines that are precariously clinging on on some of the highest N facing crags. I was not suggesting anything.
 climber_medic 09 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: blah blah blah. Rant rant rant. Just get out there and climb FFS. My word, its enough to want to give up climbing reading some of the comments on this thread.
 ruaidh 09 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:

Guys, this is a winter conditions thread. Please move this ethics debate to a different forum.
 zero six 09 Dec 2012
In reply to dgp:
Fine but you could have just said that after your photo link, a photo minus any other comment can imply many things especially when read in the context of an 'is it/isn't it in condition?' debate.
 Rampikino 09 Dec 2012
 ruaidh 09 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:

I've reported abuse and requested all non-conditions related posts be removed.
 zero six 09 Dec 2012
In reply to ruaidh:
Abuse by who?
 Tony Sparks 09 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:

Sorry your post was far too long to read so I genuinely couldnt finish it.. Yawn.
So I read your parties log book entries for Torquing Shit instead and got a much better description of the conditions on Saturday the 8th.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=147657

We got there in the end. To quote "Melty and horrible" only means one thing to me.

And just for the record- while you had a three paragraph rant on my one sentence that said 'glorified dry tooling routes', I'll clarify that Ive got nothing against dry tooling or 'pure rock winter pitches' (in fact I enjoy a go myself occasionally) the point was that those routes are less likely to be deeply vegetated and hence affected by climbing in poor conditions.

Adios, enjoy your winter all- thats my lot.
 LakesWinter 09 Dec 2012
In reply to ruaidh: Actually the ethical debate is very important and should be discussed in the context of conditions as if a route is not properly frozen it is unethical and wrong to climb it. I would say well done to the party that abseiled off when they found the route they were on to not be in condition.
 NeilGriffiths 09 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Christ on a bike! Things can warm up. I climbed "Tourquing Sh@t" on Saturday. All was fine on rock, snow and frozen, bloody turf. Weather, I believe, is a flux of localised atmospheric conditions. Well guess what? The flux fluxed in the Welsh mountains of all places! Rain on thin slabs has a habit of rapidly melting any vestiges of snow ice, rain rapidly turms frozen blobs of soil and vegetation. Guess what? 5m up the last pitch we backed off, we abbed out. I am not daft. I have climbed enough to understand winter ethics. I have climbed enough to understand that teetering up slabs without things frozen is asking for serious trouble from a staying alive point of view AND from my own mind set of ethics. Gosh, people like a good rant on a Sunday night.
 Babika 10 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:
As a humble "snow plodder" and "gully basher" I had a great time on Saturday on Parsley Fern Gully along with at least 10 other climbers. Snow was beautiful neve, the little cornice at the the top was fun, sunshine wonderful in the morning and all the routes around were perfect as well.

3 other friends enjoyed RH Trinity as well. Simple pleasures.

Was raining a lot today but I'm sure the deep base won't have disappeared that quick and its due to get colder now.
 zero six 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Babika: That's good to hear. It was a great day on Saturday before mid-day. It's also good to see you're not attempting to publicly second-guess conditions on routes outside of your personal experience by using vague blog references and supposition. That seems to happen too much on this thread.
davo77 10 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:
People need to grow up on here, it's quite embarrassing!

All this bollox about destruction of plant life & turf, I'm sure any good competent climber/rambler will know right from wrong in all manner or climbing & conservation ethics!

This a Winter Climbing forum, if you lot wanna go argue find a primary school playground & go throw ya toys out of the pram there!
We personally don't want to to see it on here, climbing routes, good days out & pics would be awesome, It may give us newbies a bit of enthusiasm to actually go out & enjoy the wonderful countryside that's right on our doorstep rather than be wary of upsetting someone who's more concerned about plant life that's so deep it will never be touched beneath the snow!

Come on guys it's not Bitchbook!
 steveej 10 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: this is north Wales were talking about. Conditions are fickle at best and change by the hour. It should be for the people on the ground to judge conditions at the time.

The whole turf argument is now veering on the ridiculous. I can understand certain routes need the turf for it to be climable. But damaging plant life, really? What about scratching up the rock at clogwyn du? There's nothing about that in the white guide. Complete double standards.
Simon Panton 10 Dec 2012
In reply to steveej: Just to clarify, the subject matter of the North Wales White Guide is - as the strap line: Reconciling Conservation and Recreation, suggests - focussed upon minimising the impact of winter climbing on rare plants.

It does not discuss the ethics of scratching summer rock climbs, although that is well covered in the introduction section of the recently published North Wales Winter Climbing guide.
 steveej 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Simon Panton: thanks for clarifying.

I'm not having a go at the white guide. The issue is about climber impact whether that be damaging scarce plant life or scratching rock.

There seems to be a lot of double standards on blogs and on here.

I got slagged off for climbing RH Trinity last weekend. The fact is that this route is not turf dependent to climb, and also is not within the shaded area of the white guide. Travesty was getting done at the same time, straight through a shaded area but that was deemed perfectly acceptable.

Fact is, people are all too easy to criticise others when they are not there on the ground that day.

 iksander 10 Dec 2012
In reply to steveej: Blimey, any conditions reports on here?
 stevez 10 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Right, staying on topic (the rest of you please take your keyboard warrior skills onto another thread). Looking at the Oggi Cam it looks like gully lines above 700m are still full of snow after the weekends thaw and should now benefit from some consolidation as the temperatures drop.

Might head into Cwm Lloer or Y Garn tomorrow if anyone's keen.
 smuffy 10 Dec 2012
In reply to davo77:
> (In reply to zero six)
> People need to grow up on here, it's quite embarrassing!
>
> All this bollox about destruction of plant life & turf, I'm sure any good competent climber/rambler will know right from wrong in all manner or climbing & conservation ethics!
>
> This a Winter Climbing forum, if you lot wanna go argue find a primary school playground & go throw ya toys out of the pram there!
> We personally don't want to to see it on here, climbing routes, good days out & pics would be awesome, It may give us newbies a bit of enthusiasm to actually go out & enjoy the wonderful countryside that's right on our doorstep rather than be wary of upsetting someone who's more concerned about plant life that's so deep it will never be touched beneath the snow!
>
> Come on guys it's not Bitchbook!

VERY,VERY WELL SAID!
 Banned User 77 10 Dec 2012
In reply to smuffy: To a point.. but its no bad thing its been flagged up..

Cwm Idwal has special conservation status so I'd guess the powers that be could ban climbing/winter climbing, so its worth being extra vigilant to damage..

I was surprised to read winter routes were done last weekend, but when I was out I was also surprised how variable conditions and snow lines were around Snowdonia. There was certainly climbable snow high on Wyddfa last saturday. Yet in other places it was powder and slab, others a high snow line.. there must have been almost 1000ft differences in the snow line in places, from 500m on the North side of Hebog up to almost 800m on Siabod.
 torquil 10 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: back to conditions.....

looking out the window there is still plenty of snow on snowdon, down to the top of cloggy. The glyders are looking more stripped but i imagine there's plenty of snow in the gullies and hopefully it should be turning to neve nicely....

I may have to pop out after work and check for sure though.
 dgp 10 Dec 2012
In reply to davo77:
> (In reply to zero six)
> People need to grow up on here, it's quite embarrassing!
>
> All this bollox about destruction of plant life & turf, I'm sure any good competent climber/rambler will know right from wrong in all manner or climbing & conservation ethics!
>
> This a Winter Climbing forum, if you lot wanna go argue find a primary school playground & go throw ya toys out of the pram there!
> We personally don't want to to see it on here, climbing routes, good days out & pics would be awesome, It may give us newbies a bit of enthusiasm to actually go out & enjoy the wonderful countryside that's right on our doorstep rather than be wary of upsetting someone who's more concerned about plant life that's so deep it will never be touched beneath the snow!
>
> Come on guys it's not Bitchbook!

Your comments just underline the ignorance out there ie some people (and it sounds as though this includes you) do not give a sh1t about rare plant life and the impact you can have if climbing in lean conditions - the whole point is that the Snowdon Lily for example does not grow in gullies under deep snow - take some time to read Elfyns article - you might understand why some of us care (no I,m not a plant hugger by the way but someone who has climbed snow and ice routes in Snowdonia well before you were born) and why it is important to highlight the issue under a winter conditions thread. I,m off to Ogwen - conditions look great !

 Babika 10 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:
Thanks.
I did try to return it to a thread about actual Snowdonia Winter Conditions based on my actual Saturday experience as that's what I really want to read before I drive 150 miles....but hey ho....
 Big Lee 10 Dec 2012
In reply to davo77:
> (In reply to zero six)

> All this bollox about destruction of plant life & turf, I'm sure any good competent climber/rambler will know right from wrong in all manner or climbing & conservation ethics!

Disagree. I've been guilty of unexpectedly encountering/damaging turf myself in the past and I considered myself a 'good competent climber'. I'm sure others have as well if they are truthful. It's inevitably part of the learning game sometimes. So I guess the natural thing to do is to try and educate others from making the same mistakes.

> We personally don't want to to see it on here, climbing routes, good days out & pics would be awesome, It may give us newbies a bit of enthusiasm to actually go out & enjoy the wonderful countryside that's right on our doorstep rather than be wary of upsetting someone who's more concerned about plant life that's so deep it will never be touched beneath the snow!

And there lies the irony because quite often the turf can be unfrozen when burried under deep snow. I've been in thigh deep snow with unfrozen turf below.
ralphatkinson 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Babika:
Indeed, let's all start again, shall we?
 davegs 10 Dec 2012
 Big Lee 10 Dec 2012
In reply to ralphatkinson:

Looks like there's going to be some good conditions until Thurs then a decline during Friday.
Simon Panton 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Big Lee: Just heard from a mate: very good neve on Clogwyn y Garnedd this morning.
 wspinacz32 10 Dec 2012
Been there today seen few folks up there but it wasnt very busy...seen one lad soiling Right Hand trinity i think and somebody on the top of Cave Gully. Snow was great from about 700 m and its going to be better tommorow
 torquil 10 Dec 2012
Trinity face was not as good as you might expect today. Snow was good in places - terrible in others, a crust on sugar - not nice. The turf generally wasn't frozen either, ok in places but nowhere near in others. The crags are black. Hopefully another cold night will improve things.

I started up a variant of snakebite as the snow was great at the start but backed off when it started collapsing under me and i found the turf unfrozen.

From what i saw nothing but LH and Central would have been in there today...
 Andy Mountains 10 Dec 2012
Today Davey & I headed out with the intention of heading high up into Cwm Cneifion and looking for something grade III ish to start off our winter season,.Possibly Tower Rib, or if we were feeling unusually brave Golden Girl Ali.
Although reports from the weekend were of a big thaw, I hoped that we could find something in condition after the colder temps last night. However on driving up the A5, Cwm Cneifion although certainly having some snow cover looked pretty black in the rocky areas including Clogwyn Ddu.
Looking over to the easy gully lines of Y Garn, we could see they looked complete, and Y Garn in general just looked more wintery! So, we ditched our rope & climbing hardware in Davey's lovely T5 camper, just took axes & crampons and headed up.
Snow cover starts around Llyn Clyd, although it is extremely soft and boggy. (as usual) We could see that Banana Gully was complete, so headed up, stopping where the gully narrows by the small crags on the left to don crampons. So to the snow conditions: the first half of the gully from this point was great if you stuck to the 3 or 4 sets of steps already kicked in the snow, rock hard in fact. However venturing a few feet to the right or left of these steps, the snow had a hard crust, but soft underneath resulting in wading knee deep. But the second half (approx top 70m) the snow was excellent neve right across the gully, and kicking steps and front pointing was possible.
We decended via A Gully, which was much the same story snow condition wise as Banana Gully. I then went to have a peek between the buttresses into C Gully, but could clearly see that there was not complete snow cover, and the 'step' was bare turf which would most certainly not have been frozen, so we backed off that.
On returning back to Ogwen carpark we spoke to a lad (blue camper van next to us, hello!) who had been up into Cwm Cneifion, and reported snow conditions high in the cwm were actually very good, and had done Hidden Gully were he said it was 'bomber neve all the way'.

Pics on blog if anyone is interested.
ralphatkinson 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wspinacz32: I hope the lad was 'soloing' rather than your quoted 'soiling' RHT. I'm sure it was just a typing error but after all those other ecological messages........
 stevez 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains:

Thanks Andy. You've made my mind up to head from South Wales early tomorrow morning now. I'm thinking Cwm Lloer should have pretty good neve if that's what you experienced on Y Garn.
 zero six 10 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:
Cwm Cneifion with the intention of some more glorified dry-tooling today but all rock black so no climbing for us. Cleft Gully is iced up and climbable, Clogwyn LH is fully iced but main pitch looks v.thin. The gullies and back wall are full of bomber neve. Turf (what's left) is well frozen.
'The Motherlode' explored and found to have the makings of potentially the best dry-tool crag around.
 Simon Caldwell 10 Dec 2012
In reply to wspinacz32:
> seen one lad soiling Right Hand trinity i think

has Mr Clothier made a visit south of the border?
 sam-brad 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains:
I was the 2 "lad in a blue camper" (hi andy)
As andy said I headed up to cwm Cneifion to have a look.
As I headed up from Idwal I wasn't hopeful as the ground was very very wet with lots of running water.
As I entered the cwm the ground was still wet and the little snow patches where very soggy. as I went further into the cwm the snow got harder and harder until I arrived at the start of hidden gully where the snow was perfect neve!
The crags looked very black but ice was starting to form.
The gully's are defiantly the way to go at the moment because although the turf was starting to freeze it was only near the top!
 davebonner 10 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:

Hang on Sweetheart, you dissed the guy that gave a conditions report yesterday without him getting on the route lol.
davo77 10 Dec 2012
In reply to dgp:
I do care about plants etc... and i always try to take great care when im out and about with my family also,, im always telling my daughter about the importance of where and where not to stand ie not on plants & anything that make our countryside great!!!
just dont like seeing arguments on here, its a climbing site after all.

I may as well talk to the mrs if i wanna argue lol
davo77 10 Dec 2012
In reply to dgp:
> (In reply to davo77)
> [...]
>
> Your comments just underline the ignorance out there ie some people (and it sounds as though this includes you) do not give a sh1t about rare plant life and the impact you can have if climbing in lean conditions - the whole point is that the Snowdon Lily for example does not grow in gullies under deep snow - take some time to read Elfyns article - you might understand why some of us care (no I,m not a plant hugger by the way but someone who has climbed snow and ice routes in Snowdonia well before you were born) and why it is important to highlight the issue under a winter conditions thread. I,m off to Ogwen - conditions look great !

Don't f*cking patronise me dgp, you dont even know me "Before i was born!" lol
In reply to davo77:

> you dont even know me "Before i was born!" lol

But as your profile says you were born 35 years ago he probably doesn't need to know you to work it out
 Kyle Warlow 10 Dec 2012
In reply to stevez:
> (In reply to Andy Mountains)

Might head into Cwm Lloer or Y Garn tomorrow if anyone's keen.
>
> Thanks Andy. You've made my mind up to head from South Wales early tomorrow morning now. I'm thinking Cwm Lloer should have pretty good neve if that's what you experienced on Y Garn.

Hi mate,

what part of South Wales are you heading from?

Kyle
 stevez 10 Dec 2012
In reply to K.W.:
> (In reply to stevez)
> [...]
>
> Might head into Cwm Lloer or Y Garn tomorrow if anyone's keen.
> [...]
>
> Hi mate,
>
> what part of South Wales are you heading from?
>
> Kyle

Newport. Leaving at 5am. Happy to give you a lift if you don't mind sharing petrol money?
 johnnorman 10 Dec 2012
In reply to zero six:
> (In reply to davebonner)
> Can't believe I have to even explain that.
>


You don`t have to explain anything to anyone, so can all you bickering children do us all a favour and shut the F*** up !!

 zero six 10 Dec 2012
In reply to davebonner:
> (In reply to zero six)
>
> Hang on Sweetheart, you dissed the guy that gave a conditions report yesterday without him getting on the route lol.

Umm?? Fecking hell how many conclusions do people on here jump to from reading vague posts!
Who said we didn't 'climb' up cneifion arete, wander up the gribin ridge, wander over to glyder fach, front point back down the back wall into cwm cneifion, and pootle around on the slopes at the start of Hidden G looking at potential lines on the walls to the right. i.e. we covered various terrain and crossed neve, ice and frozen turf. Can't believe I have to even explain that.
I picked the other guy up because he was making assumptions based on reading vague entries in posts and blogs. Welcome to his club.
'Sweetheart'? Bit weird.




 Kyle Warlow 10 Dec 2012
In reply to stevez:

That would have been ideal but I've just been shot down by the misses! What a kick in the ****. Cheers anyway. Drop me an email if your heading up again sometime soon. More than happy to split costs.

Kyle.
 stevez 10 Dec 2012
In reply to K.W.:
> (In reply to stevez)
>
> That would have been ideal but I've just been shot down by the misses! What a kick in the ****. Cheers anyway. Drop me an email if your heading up again sometime soon. More than happy to split costs.
>
> Kyle.

Will do
 Andy Mountains 10 Dec 2012
This is going to be my last post on this years 'Snowdonia Winter Conditions' thread.
If anyone is interested I will still be running my blog 'Andy Mountains', and doing my best to report on Welsh Winter Conditions. Won't post a link on here, but you know where it is, and if you don't then Google it.

Any reports always welcome
 Banned User 77 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains:
> This is going to be my last post on this years 'Snowdonia Winter Conditions' thread.
> If anyone is interested I will still be running my blog 'Andy Mountains', and doing my best to report on Welsh Winter Conditions. Won't post a link on here, but you know where it is, and if you don't then Google it.
>
> Any reports always welcome

nah keep it going.. I used yours and your reports to keep me updated.. and unless we know you they won't check.. noone will read up a conditions thread to find the links as conditions are transient..
 WILLS 10 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: dont let a small bunch of fools cause you stress. Never seen so much bitching. Honestly, if this is how the season is going i'm just going to stay in and avoid the hand bags coming down the gullies.
robmcgrath 11 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: I'm hoping to get out tomorrow and have a play in the snow I have only ice climbed in door once so just looking to get my crampons on and have fun. Where would the best place be to head to? Also if anyone wants to come along (or teach me to ice climb .)email me.
 n-stacey 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Hi Andy, dont get dishartened by a buch of tossers. Your posts and info are top drawer.
 Pay Attention 11 Dec 2012
In reply to n-stacey:
I never contribute to this thread because I am too far away. But I read this conditions report avidly to get up to date and valuable information from Andy Mountains, Ian RUK etc.

Start the petition to bring back Andy Mountains!
 WILLS 11 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: I'll be in ogwen tomorrow. Depending on the clag I'll be heading for y garn or cwm cnefion. I'll be there at 5am. On a tight schedule gotta be back in Wrexham by 12.30. If its light enough I'll try n get some pictures, they say a thousand words. Will report back tomorrow.
 torquil 11 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

better get out tomorrow then if this is coming on thursday!

http://magicseaweed.com/North-Atlantic-Surf-Chart/2/#?chartType=PRATE&_suid=13552465950170862048...

its worth playing the animation through, quite an impressive storm heading this way i think...
mysterion 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Pay attention:

> Start the petition to bring back Andy Mountains!

Yes, get him back. His on the ground reports are invaluable. Even I have bumped into him!

 George_Surf 11 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

anyone else been out today or yesterday? Is clogwyn y garnedd worth visiting tomorrow or should i keep to ogwen?
 Dan Lane 11 Dec 2012
In reply to George_Surf:

I've been out on the Trinity face today. Great conditions in the gullies. Absolutely bomber neve all the way. The turf isn't fully frozen yet, but the less well insulated bits may well be by tomorrow as it never got about -2 degrees all day. Some of the turf was in fairly good condition today, just not all of it, but that's not too much of a problem in the gullies as there is still reasonable amount of snow which is now god neve.
 timmyh 11 Dec 2012
was up in Cwm Lloer today - we did hourglass gully.
Although there wasn't loads of snow around (crags were black), the gullys were great - firm neve all the way up. It looked like Broad and y gully were ok, although there were a few chock stones showing through.
The top was a bit wind-blasted but the continuation of the ridge round to Carnedd Dafydd was again good neve - deffo glad of crampons (and a bit jealous of those ski/board tracks from a few days ago!)
i looked across at y garn - bananna gully looked to be present from the narrows - below that it looked a bit like a scree scramble, gullys A,B,C looked to be ok ... just an observation from accross the valley.
In reply to George_Surf:

Out today on Y Garn - holding more snow than most areas in Ogwen. Really good quality well consolidated snow ice. Gully A complete, B complete except for a couple of short patchy steps passable on turf, C looked more patchy and Banana complete. All with a line of good bucket steps. Should be OK tomorrow, but probably well melted out by weekend.

Chubbs
 Fiskavaig 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Andy Mountains: Hi Andy, thanks for all the conditions reports you have posted on here,i have found them very useful on many occasions,i will continue to follow your blog, as i have done since you started it. I can understand your frustration, don't let it get to you, just scroll past the rubbish, your contributions will be missed. Hope to bump into you on the hills one of these days. All the best mate.
 stevez 11 Dec 2012
In reply to timmyh:

Also out today in Cwm Lloer. Did Broad Gully, Y Gully Right Hand, and Y Gully Left Hand.

Bomber neve everywhere but no ice and the crags are rime free. Some of the steps on Y Gully Left Hand aren't complete but you can by pass them on the right side, but I'd say its a grade harder as a result.

Amazing day. Will post some pics up later.
 Banned User 77 11 Dec 2012
In reply to stevez: No ice? Surprised, I was only up Foel Lus, so very low, but everything was frozen solid tonight, that was after dark... seemed like a harsh frost is happenning.. no idea how much snow is left as only just got back to North Wales.
In reply to Andy Mountains:

Dont give up on the thread - always the quickest way to know, who is or has been out to then go and check blogs for more detail if one wants.
 Banned User 77 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Neil Anderson: Ross and Kate from Raw Adventures just blogged their day out.. some pics, presume today, of cwm lloer..

http://rawadventuresnorthwales.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/making-winter-mountain-memories/
 richprideaux 11 Dec 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

It was today, I was out in the area at more or less the same time. Nothing to add to what others have said - snowline is about 700m, good solid neve above and lots of black rock showing through.

The predicted temperature increase on Thursday will probably knacker things up nicely.
 Big Lee 12 Dec 2012
In reply to shingsowa:

Yes, forecast from Friday onwards sounds shite. Freezing levels above summits and rain forecast. Thursday still looks ok though looking at the met forecast. Hopefully freeze-thaw next week rather than thaw-thaw!
Simon Panton 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Big Lee: I was up on Clogwyn y Garnedd yesterday. Neve was mostly bomber. Occasional sections of sugary stuff but generally superb.

Stunning day; clear blue skies, very cold and not a drop of wind.

I've posted some pics in the V12 Outdoor news site gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/


 WILLS 12 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: c gully this morning on Y Garn. Photos to follow. Bomber neve ice about 1" thick on the bare sections some running water here. No fog or wind until 08.40 ish ice climbs around devils kitchen are NOT fully formed. The beginnings are the but they may well thaw depends on the next weeks freezing level. Turf! Dare I even mention turf! Was frozen in places and not in others so kept off it. When I left the cwm at 09.15 slight moisture, ice crystals in the air.
When I work out how to do the pics I'll put a link up
 timmyh 12 Dec 2012
up central trinity today: as reported before, good solid neve all the way up - excellent!
In reply to torquil:

Great day yesterday on Snowdon. Started up Parsley Fern Gully which was full of snow, bomber Neve. Looked at Waterslide gully but it needs a few more days. Then dropped down to do Right Hand Trinity, excellent! Not wanting to stop went back for Ladies Gully which was even better! Back down miners track in the dark but amazing day.

Off topic, half day today so did Bovine, Hvs 5b near Many Gwynant. Sun and dry rock! North Wales at its best!
 rockcatch 12 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

The snow on Y Garn was excellent this afternoon. I went up A Gully (photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch/). Unfortunately it does sound like it will be getting warmer, wet and windy from Friday.
 torquil 12 Dec 2012
good conditions on snowdon today with all the main gullies getting ascents. The neve is still sugary in some places but generally good with the turf being miles better now than monday.


 torquil 12 Dec 2012
I should add we climbed Keeping Your End Up III 4 next to End Gully (details on the wiki but not in the guidebook - and unfortunately not the new route we thought it may be) Its a great route up an obvious line with good belays - little known but highly recommended.
 WILLS 12 Dec 2012
 Joss 12 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:
> little known but highly recommended.

Theyre the best kind...shhhh

 alastairbegley 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Sandstone Stickman: what were the conditions on ladies gully like, trying to decide which out of ladies and laddies gully to do tomorrow
 wolf.leeb 12 Dec 2012
Any1 seen any ice in idwal today.. Was hoping to bash up somthing tomorrow arv before it all melts.
 JamesA 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Foxy:
laddies wasn't good this afternoon - rotten ice or a thin crust over sugary powder on quite a bit of it. It isn't nearly as good as ladies gully anyway tbh.
 Joss 13 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Had a wander up into Cwm Cneifion and down Idwal today- conditions would have been superb for a few gullies, didnt have the time to do any routes but the temperatures were -4 at the car with all the smaller streams and water on the paths frozen (even down near the lake). Blue sky day that made you feel lucky to be out. The snow level was very stripped back compared to last saturday but in contrast the snow was rock solid. All the Garn gullies were all surprisingly complete and the Cneifion back wall gullies were all complete. The ground was frozen hard generally everywhere. Idwal stream even starting to freeze.

Sadly looks like were heading for the big melt/rain on Friday and well into the next few days, so this report will be of no use- UNLESS YOU GET OUT TONIGHT!
 rodw 13 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: did B gully Y Garn this morning conditions excellent surprised how good the neve was but also surprised to note that the odd patch of turf was not at all frozen. Spoke to a guy who did C gully who said it was stripped in middle section. Views were terrific great day to be out but I think it was starting to thaw lower down oh dear!
mysterion 13 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Did Parsley Fern Gully today, good snow from bottom to top and a great re-introduction to winter climbing for me. Craig y Rhaeadr was frozen (but a little thin maybe compared to its drawing in the old Welsh Winter Climbs book) and some nutcase was soloing some well-formed ice on the cliff to the left of Parsley Fern.
 Joss 13 Dec 2012
In reply to Joss:

Some pics of today

Y Garn in its winter coat:
[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/10p25js.jpg[/IMG]

Cneifion gullies stripped back but still there:
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/aoqccl.jpg[/IMG]

Also saw a rare Icecock in one of the streams:
[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/5d2ud3.jpg[/IMG]

 smuffy 13 Dec 2012
In reply to Joss:
> (In reply to Joss)
>
> Some pics of today
>
> Y Garn in its winter coat:
> [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/10p25js.jpg[/IMG]
>
> Cneifion gullies stripped back but still there:
> [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/aoqccl.jpg[/IMG]
>
> Also saw a rare Icecock in one of the streams:
> [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/5d2ud3.jpg[/IMG]

Having looked at your photo of the rare Icecock my mrs has now decided she would like to have a go!

 dgp 14 Dec 2012
In reply to Joss:
> (In reply to torquil)
>
>
> Sadly looks like were heading for the big melt/rain on Friday and well into the next few days, so this report will be of no use- UNLESS YOU GET OUT TONIGHT!

Was good advice - raining heavily in Ogwen friday morning. But hasn't it been a great few days !!
Simon Panton 14 Dec 2012
In reply to dgp: Rain has just eased off here in Brynrefail so I went outside and the cloud has partially cleared on Snowdon to reveal snow down to Cloggy. It has been raining very heavily all day so there must be significant amounts of snow high up.

Also just got an email from Chris Parkin saying that over in the Carneddau he can see snow down to below Llech Ddu. (He has a perfect view of the Ladders from his kitchen window)

 mux 14 Dec 2012
In reply to Simon Panton: ooo is that a chink of light slipping through a bleak sky Mr P ?

but will it be chilly enough..

I dont care ..well for a fortnight anyway as I am off to Czech until new year

and there is loads of snow there :P
 Cliffm 14 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:
> First snows on snowdon this morning.
>
> Surely that signals the start of the conditions thread!!

Was up in Cwm Cneifion.....(Nameless Cwm,,,to the english!!) On Tues 11th Dec.Conditions in the upper part of the the cwm were brilliant,front pointing all the way. Ground rock hard and care had to be taken on paths down as rocks were covered with verglas.
 richprideaux 14 Dec 2012
In reply to Simon Panton:

Siabod was starting to look a bit white at midday (from the A5). Temperature has been at about +1 - +2C all day at home (300m ASL) so could be good for snow plodding all weekend.
Simon Panton 14 Dec 2012
In reply to richprideaux: Rain picked up again here, so presumably even more snow high up (couldn't see because cloud level dropped right down).

Another message from Mr Parkin a couple of hours back: "clearing more - ladders plastered"

 LakesWinter 14 Dec 2012
In reply to Simon Panton: Then a slight thaw for a couple of days and colder on Tues.........
Simon Panton 14 Dec 2012
In reply to LakesWinter: ...and the perfect recipe for good conditions unfolds again!



(fingers crossed)
 LakesWinter 14 Dec 2012
In reply to Simon Panton: Now I just need a day off to coincide with some conditions
 Cornish boy 14 Dec 2012
In reply to smuffy:
> (In reply to Joss)
> [...]
>
> Having looked at your photo of the rare Icecock my mrs has now decided she would like to have a go!

To be honest fella, I don't blame her. It does look to be quite a lot bigger than yours!

 Darkskys 15 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: low cloud base with some heavy winds at valley height (Ogwen) with some occasional heavy rain. Heading up Snowdon tmw to check conditions out, had the intention of doing Trinity but can't see anything being in decent nick. Will report back later on
 iang74 15 Dec 2012
In reply to Cornish boy: Paul not wanting to totally hijack the thread and go off topic, but to add some more humour, could you please put a link up to your picture from Oslo airport from earlier in the year.
 bowls 15 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:

Just out of interest, how aggressive has the thaw been? I expected everything to have been washed away - but looking on the Oggie Base webcam I was surprised to see Y Garn still looking to contain a fair amount of Snow - Banana Gully looked complete, (let's not start an ethics thread on this!) So I suspect areas like Cwm Glas and maybe the trinity face still contain a large amount of snow, even if it is slushy?

Anyone who was brave/devoid of anything else to do today get out then an opinion would be greatly appreciated
 Darkskys 15 Dec 2012
In reply to bowls: was on Snowdon today, Trinity face has been stripped minus the last 150 metres from summit. Snow underfoot was really soft and the wind and rain was ridiculous.
The carneddau looked awesome with still lots of snow plastered everywhere especially the gulleys but I guess they won't be there for long.
 Mike Peacock 16 Dec 2012
In reply to bowls: I didn't go anywhere high yesterday (Cefn Du) but drove back via the Pass and Ogwen; Cwm Glas and Cwm Lloer were still full of snow. Cwm Clyd hadn't held on quite so well, but Banana Gully looked complete. Things might be ok if the freezing level comes back down.
 Joss 16 Dec 2012
In reply to Mike Peacock:
Thats good news, fingers crossed for a drop.
 iksander 16 Dec 2012
In reply to Joss: Wednesday looks like a rotter
1philjones1 16 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Went over Crib Goch today in interesting conditions. Patchy soft snow on the way up for the last 250 metres and still a little icy on the pinnacles. Once you get to Garnedd Ugain(sp?)there is still lots of snow and from the finger-post there is still several feet depth going about 200 metres down the zigzags. Looking back at Trinity Face, when the cloud cleared briefly, the ramp up to the Spider still looked intact and, as far as I could see, both Central and left Hand were still complete.
 JamButty 17 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: So, I'm getting the feeling I've missed it all.
I finish work tomorrow so might be heading west to get out and about.
Is the best I can hope for a wet walk with some mushy snow or are there still some things out there.
Snowdon range or Carneddau?
 smuffy 17 Dec 2012
In reply to JamButty: Looking at the forecast for Wednesday you might want to stay at home!
In reply to smuffy: I just bought the wales winter climbing guide. it arrived today. That means the season is definately over. It tends to happen when I buy a winter climbing guide. I was hoping for some winter action this weekend but it is looking poor.
 RichJ634 17 Dec 2012
In reply to The Grist: Keep the faith. Plenty of winter yet to come.
 Banned User 77 18 Dec 2012
In reply to The Grist: Snow level must now be 850-900m or so, maybe lower.. Lliwedd looked snow free almost, the snowdon cone was still snow covered and cwm glas mawr.. but its generally been stripped right back..

Stunning day today though, worth a day out if anyone can get out, just had a quick run up to BRitannia mines on the miners. Stunning.
 WILLS 20 Dec 2012
In reply to The Grist: oh god know! Your not supposed to buy that book in December January or February or it scares Jack Frost away. Surely this is common knowledge!
 timbers 26 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil:
Any updates please? Off there tomorrow. Any snow/ice left at all?
 McGuinness 26 Dec 2012
In reply to timbers: Only tiny patches on a few select summits. Quite warm and very, very wet.
 WILLS 26 Dec 2012
In reply to McGuinness: and very very windy
 timbers 26 Dec 2012
In reply to WILLS:

Oh dear.

Thanks.
 Nath 27 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: Got Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Snowdonia - is there anything in condition?

Are the gullies stripped?

Any tops still in condition, got the current Mrs B in tow so wanted some easy white stuff for her to practice cramponing, basic ice axe stuff etc.

Trying to avoid an expensive traverse of the gear shops in Betsy if I can.

Nath
 Big Lee 27 Dec 2012
In reply to Nath:

Nothing is in condition. Temperatures are above the summits and its raining on the summits. There's virtually no snow from what I've read. Don't bother.
 Nath 27 Dec 2012
In reply to Big Lee: Accomodation all paid for, so we will still be going - sounds like it will be water proofs and walking boots then.

UK weather is doing my friggin head in at the moment.

Nath
 Cadairmanuk 27 Dec 2012
In reply to Nath:

I was up on the carneddau on Xmas day and there was the odd snow patch about but nothing to write home about. Cadair idris was white this morning which was encouraging but forecast is warm wet and windy.
 WILLS 27 Dec 2012
In reply to torquil: watch the wind. Has been very strong in north wales last few days.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/mobile/mountainareadetail?area=Snowdonia&view=nextDay

Check forecast here.
Yes it says wintery showers but the freezing levels are up n down over the next week
 ralphio 02 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: just after an up to date conditions report from anyone that lives round the area or has been up there last few days... Hoping to get up there this coming weekend to practice rope work for first trip to the alps this summer.

Looking at doing some ridges like clogwyn y Pearson or cnifien arete and ideally wanted to avoid winter conditions so we can just concentrate on the rope work side of things.

How low is the snow line? Crampons and ice axe still needed with the recent thaw in mind?

Thanks.
 jezb1 02 Jan 2013
In reply to ralphio: you will not need crampons or axes. As it stands there is just the occasional patch of snow.
 ralphio 02 Jan 2013
In reply to jezb1: thanks.
 Nath 08 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Cold Spell coming over this Friday/Weekend - fingers crossed for some white stuff.

Any news at the moment - assuming its bare at present?

Nath B
Ruub 08 Jan 2013
In reply to Nath:
yes....bare, grim, wet,...(not quite Chamonix at Christmas and New Year!) what a return.....
 greg_may_ 08 Jan 2013
In reply to Nath:

Bare as a ... well wet summer Welsh hill. Was on Tryfan on Thursday last week, sodden, greasy, horrible. Some tiny patches of snow over the far side of the valley above the lake. Not even worth mentioning really.
 Misha 10 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
MWIS says -5 at 900m Sunday, freezing level 600-800m into next week & majority of forecasts suggest sustained cold. Bring it on!!!
 WILLS 10 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha: sat n Sunday freezing levels look lower now around 200 metres. Hopefully it will stay like that for a few months
 RichJ634 12 Jan 2013
In reply to WILLS: Vague dusting of snow on Snowdon summit above around 800m. Nothing to write home about just yet!
 wazzalad20 12 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: just been up seniors ridge and down y gribin. It was extremely cold on the summit plateau and the ground/turf was frozen solid. That was of course above 900m but im sure of it remains dry and cold for another day or so it will be frozen at all levels ready for a dumping of snow
 torquil 13 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Its was snowing hard as I drove down the pass earlier, looking pretty white on the hills now and I was surprised how much ice was forming in the pass already.
 Diggler 13 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Up walking on the tops today loads of frozen turf around and snowing quite heavy by the time we left 3pm ish
 Mr Fuller 13 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Was on Tryfan East Face today. Turf completely frozen and significant hoar frost building high up. A couple of inches of snow fallen on Tryfan summit by 4pm.
Simon Panton 14 Jan 2013
In reply to Mr Fuller: I went for a stomp in the hills yesterday. Ground frozen solid everywhere then the snow swept in during the afternoon. Some pics in the V12 gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/
 libation 14 Jan 2013
sunday 13

up north ridge - along crib goch - down cwm glas ridge.

verglas - settled snow - frozen earth - hoar frost - very cold when windy.

you decide!
Simon Panton 14 Jan 2013
In reply to libation: On a slightly related note, there is a free lecture on North Wales winter climbing taking place in Liverpool this Thursday (17th Jan).

More details here:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/01/14/north-wales-winter-climbing-lecture-at-liverpool-john-moores-u...
 Mike Peacock 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: The webcams are looking great this morning...
Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC) 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: Was up on Moel Siabod this morning to see the sunrise. Lots of loose fluffy unconsolidated snow though ground frozen solid and icy in places.
Simon Panton 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: After the school run this morning I raced round and snapped a few shots. Check them out in the V12 news site gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

Clear blue skies and snowy mountains - puts a smile on my face every time!

 Jamie Light 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:

Great pics Simon
 Webster 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: any hint of ice growing in the devils kitchen area? or is it just white with fresh snow?
Simon Panton 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Webster: Ice is forming - could be really good come the weekend.
 davegs 15 Jan 2013
Don't forget to tweet the conditions with the #welshwinter or @welshwinter
 mux 15 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: why Mr P with these pictures you are spoiling us. My plans for Sunday may change it seems ..
 davegs 15 Jan 2013
New route from Baggy Richards

http://wwwbaggy.blogspot.co.uk
 DannyK 16 Jan 2013
Has anyone been out today and able to advise on conditions? Any gullies in? Much water ice formed?
 mr mills 16 Jan 2013
In reply to DannyK:

No ice routes formed in Cwm Idwal !
 bryn 16 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Went over Crib Coch and up to Snowdon today, so had a good change to look at the Trinity Face area. Looks like the harder mixed lines may be doable, but the main gullies in need of a thaw then refreeze to bring them into nick. Gullies could do with a bit more snow to fill up - Central Trinity looked thin over the chock stone, and in the narrows above.
Have fun.
Bryn
 Simon4 16 Jan 2013
In reply to bryn: Anyone have any inkling about where water ice-routes might be forming? I assume that snow routes are nowhere near in.
 greg_may_ 16 Jan 2013
In reply to DannyK:

Popped up myself, up and over the ridge above Cloggy. Few photos here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13995637@N08/sets/72157632535653793/
 Tony2 16 Jan 2013
In reply to DannyK:
In Cwm Ffynnon LLoer and went up the headwall. Snow held firm. A party of three later descended our ascent route. Everything was covered in snow but the layer is thin. Some snow deeper where it is wind blown, as on the headwall. Saw a party of two on Hourglass. Broad Gully nowhere near complete so an ascent would prove very interesting. A few icicles forming in the cwm but the streams were running free.
 Misha 16 Jan 2013
In reply to mr mills:
Were they starting to form though? I suspect it will be marginal in Idwal this weekend, though the Stream will probably be in as it will have been sub-freezing for about a week by the weekend.
 Joss 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:
Think the stream will take a little longer yet. Was in Idwal today and the bare bones of the ice routes are staring to form but it was much warmer than forecast today.
 mr mills 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:

Up in Llyn y Cwn today and the lake was not frozen, up Y Garn and down the NE Face Llyn Clyd not frozen either, the smalllake was begining to freeze though ! This is just an indication of how much of a freeze it requires for ice to form in the Cwm.
 ERU 16 Jan 2013
 Simon4 16 Jan 2013
In reply to Greg, Tony, Joss, Mr Mills : Thanks for the updates fellas.
Mr Mills, how are snow gulleys looking on Y Garn and idwal area?
Simon Panton 17 Jan 2013
In reply to alexei.nicholas: I was out climbing in the Ogwen Valley yesterday and the gullies were lined with fresh snow; it snowed last night as we were leaving, is snowing up top now and due to snow even more tomorrow...so they'll probably be full of white fluff by the weekend.

Go for a buttress route or ridge scramble instead. The gullies will be much more fun once we've had a temperature oscillation and the snow has consolidated.
Simon Panton 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: Full write up and pics of Pete Harrison's new super route on Clogwyn Du:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/01/17/lateo-x-10-north-wales-hardest-winter-route/

Such a good effort!
 Big Lee 17 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> (In reply to alexei.nicholas) I was out climbing in the Ogwen Valley yesterday and the gullies were lined with fresh snow; it snowed last night as we were leaving, is snowing up top now and due to snow even more tomorrow...so they'll probably be full of white fluff by the weekend.
>
> Go for a buttress route or ridge scramble instead. The gullies will be much more fun once we've had a temperature oscillation and the snow has consolidated.

Persistant Friday snow combined with 50mph SE winds means there is going to no doubt be windslab avalanche risk for the weekend. Gullies are maybe not going to be the best choice of route for the weekend.
Can anyone reccomend any grade 1 ridges/buttresses? Will be leading first winter climbs
 Lukeva 17 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: We are heading to our hut tomorrow, would mixed lines be climbable given the extreme weather predictions tomorrow, eg Clogwyn Du? Any help gratefully received. If not any suggestions... other than stay at home!?
 mr mills 17 Jan 2013
In reply to alexei.nicholas:

Not in yesterday but some guys were topping out on the summit of Y Garn, think they were on c/d buttress not sure... very mild today rain in Nantffrancon, snow forcasted tonight and tomorrow fingers crossed then quite cold throughout next week !
In reply to torquil: Conditions today (Thurs 17th) - from Crib Coch - crib y ddysgl. Warmer than I was expecting with little ice, and turf condition patchy. Snow showers all day, and a lot of moving snow in the wind. Snow was unconsolidated hence the route choice. snow line is roughly at Pen y pass (300m) when I left at 4.30. With wind, a lot of snow accumulating windslab etc in certain spots. Snow was knee deep on the ridge, and judging by the route, gullies would be a nightmare ( I decided against parsley fern); ridge was very slow going, as snow is arduous at the moment, and route finding tricky in the misty & snowy conditions ( in reference to the beginner looking for an option this weekend) - nb roads all ok at the moment (A5 etc)
 Big Lee 18 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Any info about amount of fresh snow falling in Snowdonia?
 KellyKettle 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Big Lee: I'm at sea level at the far end of the nant-francon pass; the ground is well covered in the village and visibility is too poor to see the peaks from my house
 Rory Shaw 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Big Lee: Its dumping it down!! high winds though so expect scouring a big drifts! Maybe even some av conditions in some n/nw/w facing gullies
 bowls 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Big Lee:

Looking at the Radar today, North Wales looks to have been hit much harder than anywhere else in Britain. - The Met Office Red Warning I suspect should have been for North West Wales.

I suspect several feet have fallen over the mountains so there will also be substantial avalanche risk and a swim to get anywhere - stuff like Crib Goch could be fun if the wind hasn't stripped it!

Anyone up there got any more info.

Even Anglesey looks like it has probably taken a pummeling
 wynaptomos 18 Jan 2013
In reply to bowls: I'm in Caeathro just outside Caernarfon, not much above sea-level. It has been very windy and some of the drifts are waist-deep down here so I imagine anyone going up into the mountains will be alternating between windswept ground or floundering through deep powder.
 Bevans 18 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: We did Arch Gully on Glyder Fach today. Good nick. Weather was full gnarl. We left a pack at the bottom which was covered by about six inches of snow by the time we finished. There is a lot of fresh snow and wind is blowing it hard. It is waist deep in places and was fracturing and releasing in small blocks as we descended. Not a problem at the moment but as it increases in depth in gullies on leeward slopes there may be localised avalanche risk so choose your lines carefully. Steep mixed stuff is cracking. The roads are problematic tonight
Ben Proudlove 18 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

I am going to try and drive over for some ski mountaineering on the carneddau tomorrow - do you reckon there is much chance of getting there - seems pretty touch and go at the moment...
 KellyKettle 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Ben Proudlove: assuming you're heading from the south, then taking the M6/A55 over the A5 might be an idea as the A5 does tend to snarl up in these conditions. At least at the western end heading on to anglesey the roads are generally clear (even the country lanes) but traffic is slow; snowploughs and gritters are out in full swing (they cleared the road to my house about an hour ago).
Ben Proudlove 18 Jan 2013
In reply to KellyKettle: Coming from Colwyn Bay so not a million miles...early start to beat the attempted rush I think! Enjoy tomorrow everyone...
 Jonny Nick 18 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Anybody got any good route choices for tomorrow? Seems all the gullies will be avalanche ridden so looking for good quality grade II / III ridges. Was thinking heading Ogwen way may be a good bet but open to suggestions anywhere in North Wales. Cheers
 Joss 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Jonny Nick:
> (In reply to torquil) Anybody got any good route choices for tomorrow? Seems all the gullies will be avalanche ridden so looking for good quality grade II / III ridges. Was thinking heading Ogwen way may be a good bet but open to suggestions anywhere in North Wales. Cheers

Bristly Ridge is a great winter route and sterner (II) with its winter coat on. Cneifion Arete, Tower Rib and East Spur of Y Garn ate all cracking Grade III's. I bet Clogwyn y Person Arete would also be a goer, all good ridge lines...the problem you will probably encounter will be deep powder which will make the approaches more arduous and time consuming. Low cloud and poor vis too so aim for an area you know where the routes are, otherwise theyll be hard to find. The current conditions are very similar to December 2010. Took 2 hours to plod through knee deep powder to get to the start of Bristly.
 chiz 18 Jan 2013
In reply to Joss: And getting up to Clogwyn y Person Arete may be proper purgatory if there's a lot of snow. 2 years ago getting to The Notch on Tryfan took about 4 hours...
For those driving in, the gritters will be doing what they can and the roads may be open, but I think a significant issue when there's been a dump of snow like it seems there's been today is finding somewhere to pull of the road and park up -the ploughs keep the roads clear, but not the laybys or turn offs. In December 2010 I managed to get to the Tyn y Coed only to have to ground my car in the car park, the next day I had to hitch to Tryfan, and all the laybys were 12" deep in snow and most were innaccessible due to the banks of snow from the ploughs.
Take a shovel!
 Jonny Nick 19 Jan 2013
In reply to Joss: Cheers for the suggestions, heading for Bristly! Fingers crossed. Snow shovel in boot ready for the poweder when we get down to dig the car out.
 Joss 19 Jan 2013
In reply to Jonny Nick:
Nice one..enjoy!
 Willy Beman 19 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: heading up to north Wales with my old man tomorrow. Would like to get on a gully as he's keen to use his new axes but imagine they're avalanche prone. Any suggestions for some gullies in nick or if not some nice easy ridges to have some fun on? Thanks to everyone who's on here, guidance is much appreciated!
 Mark Reeves Global Crag Moderator  UKC Supporter 19 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Was out working today and there is unsuprisingly a lot of snow up there at the moment. Sargents Gully was choked full of snow, so much so you could see any ice under it all! I did not fancy the wade up to Parson's Nose so we found some stuff to play on below and right of Cryn Las as it was more scoured by the wind. Expect a hard time breaking any trail.
 davegs 19 Jan 2013
Been through Owen Valley this afternoon and the roads are clear. The laybys on the other hand have about 8 inches of snow. There is ice forming on Llyn Ogwen and it was showing 0 degrees c.

 tompilgrem 19 Jan 2013
In reply to davegs: Is the ogwen cottage car park clear. Driving up this evening to park up overnight and get an early start and wondering what it's like?
Did Banana Gulley on Y Garn today, wasn't in perfect condition but not bad at all, definitely climbable and quite a few people out climbing in the idwal area today. The gulley was much better than we expected after recent conditions
 davegs 19 Jan 2013
In reply to tompilgrem:

I easily got my 2 wheel drive in and out today. Should be ok.
In reply to torquil: Was on Bristly ridge today. some quite deep powdery unconsolidated snow. Made for difficult progress through some of the deeper sections leading up to the ridge proper.
The path down from Bochlwyd was getting rather icy on the way down.
 j.townley 19 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: In Idwal today, stream is on its way to freezing I think, did parts of the route in deep powder snow. Above the kitchen some drifts were up to my chest and im a good 6 foot 3!
 jim jones 19 Jan 2013
In reply to j.townley:
> (In reply to torquil) Above the kitchen some drifts were up to my chest and im a good 6 foot 3!

I'd better take a snorkel for tomorrow then!

 badpants 19 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: So am I reading Idwal right - there's plenty of pow and the ice lines aren't in? Anyone been on Trinity Face?
 mr mills 19 Jan 2013
In reply to j.townley:

You must have been off route then, I`m 5 feet 8 and it reached just below my knee at the deepest
 lukef 19 Jan 2013
In reply to badpants: Yes, that about sums it up.
 timjones 20 Jan 2013
In reply to mr mills:
> (In reply to j.townley)
>
> You must have been off route then, I`m 5 feet 8 and it reached just below my knee at the deepest

IME it has little to do with being on or off route in that area. You can be in a couple of inches of snow one minute and up to your b0//0cks the next. You have to pick your line. Sometimes luck and skill combine to give you an easy passage, other times you will have a real mare of a time
 richard s 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Went to Ogwen yesterday. Up NE Ridge of Y Garn and down Devil's Kitchen. Lot's of loose powder, especially on descent from Y Garn to top of the kitchen. Saw a couple of teams starting Idwal stream., Devil's Appendix developing nicely, as was the Curtain. Roads were all fine.
 mr mills 20 Jan 2013
In reply to richard s:

Was it you who I met on the summit Richard ? I went down to Devil`s Kitchen and had a good look around, some guys were playing around in Twll Du not much else going on.
 richard s 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: We were on summit about 11.00 ish. There was one guy who reached the summit about 20yds ahead of us but didn't stop there.
 timmyh 20 Jan 2013
Went up Banana Gully today - first third was knee (ish) deep powder, next third hard (ish) snow, top third was scoured frozen (ish) turf ... Good day in ok (ish) conditions!!!

 Dan Lane 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Just a quick report on the conditions on the (edge of the) Carneddau from today.

Most ground pretty much totally scoured with icy patched and deep drifts in hollow. No windslab to speak of, it seems the wind has been blowing all around and not formed anything significant. Very windy on top of Yr Elen, significant enough to make me turn around when put together with the complete whiteout conditions. No signs of the snow freezing up at all. Very cold up high no no freeze/thaw going to happen any time soon. The stream below the black ladders was frozen over completely in places with running water underneath, Strong enough to take body weight below Cwmglas Bach (I had to cross it). All in all, not ideal conditions but could be good with a bit of freeze thaw.


(I walked up Yr Elen from Bethesda then dropped down the south side to the bottom of the black ladders. There was a fair few folk walking into the ladders, would be interesting what the conditions were like up there!)
 alpboy57 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Anyone had a look at Cwm Ffynnon Lloer recently,particularly Hourglass and Broad Gully..are they complete/do-able yet?
 badpants 20 Jan 2013
Went on Intro Gully in Idwal today - let's generously describe conditions as "mixed". What cover there was fell to bits when offered anything pointy. Definitely a bit of a thaw going on.
 jim jones 20 Jan 2013
In reply to alpboy57
Did Broad Gully and Hourglass today; both in reasonable condition especially Broad Gully which was very good. Finished Hourglass Gully via a variation through a little buttress at the top that splits both the usual finishes it makes it slightly more difficult and a much better route.
 alpboy57 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Thanks Jim..hoping will still be ok for next weekend
 chris.d.w 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Anyone got any ideas for routes that won't need crampons? Got axes, but only a single pair of crampons so something that we hopefully wont need them on would be nice!
 due 20 Jan 2013
In reply to chris.d.w:

I did Moel Siabod via Daear Ddu (SE ridge) today ( http://www.ukhillwalking.com/logbook/r/?i=119 ), crampons stayed in bag. Plenty of snow but exposure and difficulties easily avoided.
 Caralynh 20 Jan 2013
In reply to due:

So did we! Although we deliberately looked for difficulties and didn't see anyone else while going the route we went.
Definitely no need for crampons, just a single axe and determined attitude.
 Joss 20 Jan 2013
In reply to jim jones:
> In reply to alpboy57
> Did Broad Gully and Hourglass today; both in reasonable condition especially Broad Gully which was very good. Finished Hourglass Gully via a variation through a little buttress at the top that splits both the usual finishes it makes it slightly more difficult and a much better route.

Really? Over in Ogwen the snow was knee deep powder today. We had aimed for the Glyder Fach routes but decided against it as the approach was untrodden deep powder. We went up the South Ridge of Tryfan instead. A great little route with its winter coat on, with many interesting sections. Completely sheltered from the easterly wind. No vis all day though.

 Nick Russell 20 Jan 2013
I was out around Cwm Idwal this weekend, and some of the ice routes are in. We did Devil's Pasture on Saturday (some of the ice was a bit soft, but there was enough of it for the route) and The Screen today (good ice on P1 but P2 bot fully formed - took the left hand gully variation described in the Ground Up guide instead). There was a party on South Gully on Saturday and a few teams on The Ramp today, and plenty of people going up the stream both days. Devil's kitchen is far from being in, but as mentioned above, the Devil's Appendix is well on the way.
 jim jones 20 Jan 2013
In reply to Joss:
> (In reply to jim jones)
> [...]
>
> Really?

Yes of course (along with at least 6 other teams). Just a case of picking the right area, snow is good and plenty of good ice forming today. Hourglass was less good but perfectly do-able by Welsh standards; one team descended it after doing Broad Gully.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.504267449617225.109634.170717916305515&type=1
 StephenS 20 Jan 2013
In reply to timmyh:

Were you on your own mate? We ( me and my scottish mate!) were talking to a fella who went up banana gully quite early on by himself and we ended up going up B Gully.

Conditions in the gully were awful waist deep in snow, gale force winds high up bringing in spindrift. Snow felt unstable, high winds on top and bad visibility...all part of the fun ey!?
 Babika 20 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
On Saturday we walked (well, swam really at times in waist deep drifts) up from Gwastadnant to the Nant Peris waterfall to have a look then onto Y garn. Ice starting to form on the waterfall but definitely not climbable until quite a few more days sub zero. This is about 600m altitude. The streams were also running water

Amazing to read that folk were climbing ice just the other side in Ogwen. I guess its quite localised and direction specific. Didn't think The Stream was that high?
 Misha 20 Jan 2013
Clogwyn Ddu was great on Saturday except for poor vis and the slog up through the snow! Only a handful of teams there from what we heard (couldn't see much!). The ice version of the second pitch of Pillar Chimney had ice all the way down to the belay and it looked thick enough to climb, not sure about screws though! Didn't have time for a closer look. This suggests that Clogwyn LH should be good.

At the moment the best path for Cwm Cneifion starts just after the Llyn Idwal path crosses a stream, which is a few hundred metres after the dry stone wall with the gate, i.e. not right after that wall (which is where the path usually starts I think).

Went for a recce into Cwm Idwal today. Most ice routes need a few more days but they are all building, even rarer ones like the Devil's Appendage (might be doable as the icicle is quite large but the mixed section doesn't have much ice). Devil's Kitchen is just about complete but pretty thin.

The Appendix is complete apart from the pillar. The longest icicle coming off the pillar was no more than half a metre from touching down. The pillar got more substantial about 1.5 metres above touchdown. So not long left! I climbed a few metres up and down the ice wall at the start to test the ice and it was solid. So I'm claiming the first non-ascent of the season! Left the axes in the ice for a few minutes to take photos and they got covered in ice from the dripping water, so it must be building pretty fast.

Looks like things will be warming up for next weekend so I'm planning a mid week raid on the Appendix, can't bear potentially having to wait another year! If the freezing level goes up to around 800 there will still be mixed stuff to do
 geoff b 21 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
The Black Ladders are turf-tastic at the mo'. Was in both days over the weekend, but there was barely a sole there. The turf routes are in great condition e.g. on Cannon Buttress & the Playschool area. On the ice front, Eastern Gully has a number of approaches in great condition & Central Gully's direct start is in. There are also some great icefalls (at about 3) under Cannon Buttress. Icefall Gully was in but thin. So long as you aim for buttresses & aretes rather than the gullies themselves a great time is guaranteed. Plus the road up to Gerlan is snow free & the path in is fine.
 Mike Peacock 21 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: It's probably worth linking to this other thread that someone posted yesterday, as more people will see it here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=535350

"On Friday I triggered an avalanche on Easy route in the Nameless Cwm, whilst crossing over to Hidden Gully. I've been winter climbing for a long time and the mountain still caught me out, the slip carried me about 100m and whilst I walked away with a few cuts and bruises, I realise it could have been a very different story. Just wanted to get the word out! Stay Safe All."
 McGuinness 21 Jan 2013
In reply to geoff b: just make sure people park in Gerlan and don't block the access road to the farm!
 ox 21 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Mike PeacockYes it does say that the head wall in Cwm Cneifion can avalanche on occasion and it will be well loaded by now.
 matthewjc 21 Jan 2013

Went up BC Buttress and down the North East ridge yesterday (Y Garn), top day albiet a bit windy on the top... As per other posts really, its getting there but the snow does need to firm up..

Oh, and I have some pics for the party who finished the ridge just before we descended - sorry I should have asked your name..!

Matt
 Lukeva 21 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: We climbed at Glyder Fach on Saturday. The approach was arduous, knee deep in power, our mate found a few streams, much to our amusement. We broke trail. We did Square Chimney Buttress (I think) felt very hard at VI 5, frozen turf, no ice and powder. Driving down the pass yesterday it appears that Central Icefall Direct might be forming.
In reply to Joss:

Yes , lots of teams out on Glyder Fach over weekend. Getting to routes was hard but ok. Sunday better with a really hoarded up crag in nameless cwm.

Managed Arch Gully and Dancing queen on Sat , then Clogwyn Left hand branch (utter mare on the crux) , and Clogwyn right hand branch (brilliant route) - we trended left at top ending near a chock stone with a interesting swing out right .

Walked back down through devils kitchen and ice was forming, nearly complete but still very wet. Couple more days and it will be mint.

 Simon Caldwell 21 Jan 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock:
> It's probably worth linking to this other thread that someone posted yesterday

Very much so, especially given the routes that some people seem to have chosen over the weekend
 ERU 21 Jan 2013
There are some condition updates here:
http://www.facebook.com/WelshWinterClimbs
 chiz 21 Jan 2013
In reply to ERU: I don't know who is running that page, and its obviously a useful resource, but I wish that when they lifted other people's comments off other sites (like here) they referenced that it wasn't their own comment. Nearly everyone else on the web manages to do it. I know I'm being too precious, and its hardly serious plagiarism, but I like to know whose comments I'm reading as it does make a difference who wrote it!

Back on thread, hoping to get up to Eyri Thursday night for some night climbing and a long weekend, hope it consolidates and stays in!
 Rob Johnson 21 Jan 2013
Great day in the mountains today, below freezing all day and blue skies. I climbed Arch Gully on Glyder Fach which was in top nick, superb!
Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC) 21 Jan 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: Anyone know if Seargents Gully is in ?? Might have a surprise for GF )))
 johnnorman 21 Jan 2013
In reply to Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC):
> (In reply to Rob Johnson) Anyone know if Seargents Gully is in ?? Might have a surprise for GF )))



There was several people on this Sunday morning but the stream was plastered with snow so i could`nt tell what the ice was like.
They climbed the whole way from where it steepens so i guess it must have been ok, sorry i can`t be more helpful
 dgp 21 Jan 2013
In reply to geoff b: Was out ski touring today in blue sky and no wind - an idea of conditions in :-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgpsharedphotos/8403429258/in/photostream

I know its a long walk in but always surprised that no one goes for Amphitheatre buttress in the conditions we have at the moment?
 Dan Lane 21 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

I did Bristly Ridge today - Very Alpine!

The walk in was hard work, but there is now a good trail trodden up to it. The route itself was in fairly good condition, just lots of powder snow over the top making it hard work! What an amazing day though, the forecast said cloud base around 400m, but in reality there wasn't a cloud in the sky!
 geoff b 21 Jan 2013
In reply to dgp:
Wow, that must have been today! It wasn't like that on Sunday; 10m vis and strong winds made navigation a treat in the dark!
 skizxi 21 Jan 2013
In reply to Littleslip: me and my mate were chatting to you. We went up c gully. Deep snow all the way apart from to last leg. Complete white out!
Does anyone know what the conditions are like on Cadair Idris? Can't seem to find anything anywhere
In reply to scottdurrant: try Huw gilbert - he's mid-wales based and often in the know re cadair

http://huwgilbert.blogspot.co.uk/
 Willy Beman 22 Jan 2013
In reply to geoff b: ditto!
 George_Surf 22 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

so from what people are saying; idwal stream, the ramp, the screen and the devils pasture are all in by now?
 ianstevens 22 Jan 2013
In reply to George_Surf: Did the Screen and Idwal Stream yesterday, the latter already looks like it's seen quite a bit of traffic, but both were definitely in proper condition. Couple of my pals did the ramp, apparently that's in good nick too. Lots of the other water ice routes up there weren't quite there yet, but a couple more days like this and they probably will be.
 Ramblin dave 22 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
It's going to get warm and wet and melty just in time for the weekend, isn't it?


 rodw 22 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: going down tomorrow with a novice thinking grade 1 does anybody know what will be best broad gully, parsley fern, or maybe central trinity suggestion much appreciated
 Nick Russell 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to torquil)
> It's going to get warm and wet and melty just in time for the weekend, isn't it?
>
>

Yeah, forecast is well above zero on Saturday
In reply to Nick Russell: There's a great picture of Idwal today on the Urbanrock facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Urbanrockcom/116065221762411
 davegs 22 Jan 2013
Been for a walk in Cwm Idwal today. Quite a few teams out on Idwal Stream. Team on South Gully.

A few pictures (sorry about the quality, forgot my camera) http://bit.ly/1435Z8f

Spotted a few on Y Garn and in Cwm Cneifion.

Also spotted through the binoculars a team doing something steep on Clogwyn Du.

 Cadairmanuk 22 Jan 2013
In reply to scottdurrant:

I was up on cadair idris yesterday and there is still a lot of powder about , big drifts. Plenty of ice about and turf frozen. Top of gullies look good on the south sides , tapia llwydion looks to be in for a bit of easy mixed. Access to Ty Nant now ok checked this morning from the Dolgellau side , access ok from Minffordd also ok now. I Know a few lads tried some of the gully on Sunday and had to abandon due to powder. Just needs that little thaw and they would be in.

Mondays walk

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3853073659959.119082.1671810048&type=1

I try and give a daily conditions from southern snowdonia and cadair idris. Follow me on twitter

@cadairmanuk

Ben
In reply to davegs: Good pics, thanks for taking the time, Looks great.
Anyone have any excuse suggestions as to why the bathroom won't be getting tiled on Thursday? A climers life - full of broken promises
 Andy Mountains 22 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Amyone had a look at Devils Pasture or route to right of it?


 timjones 22 Jan 2013
In reply to blanchie14c:
> (In reply to davegs) Good pics, thanks for taking the time, Looks great.
> Anyone have any excuse suggestions as to why the bathroom won't be getting tiled on Thursday? A climers life - full of broken promises

Wrong sort of grout
In reply to timjones:
> (In reply to blanchie14c)
> [...]
>
> Wrong sort of grout

Used that one to get to skye last weekend so after much thought I'm going to try "low temps affecting the bubble in the spirit level, I can make a start love but it might turn out a little wonky..."
 ianstevens 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Andy Mountains:
> (In reply to torquil)
>
> Amyone had a look at Devils Pasture or route to right of it?

Saw a team on it on Monday, so I presume it was OK.
In reply to torquil: has anyone been on the trinity face? What are conditions like there?
In reply to torquil:

Likewise any information on Cwm Loer?

Thanks
In reply to torquil: Can anyone give update on roads in mid wales across to cadair or the arans ?

thanks
 Misha 22 Jan 2013
Anyone know how Cascade and Central Icefall are getting on? Thanks
 Liam Brown 22 Jan 2013
In reply to timjones:

Got to prime the wall. This takes 48 hours to dry. Won`t be able to tile until Friday.
 Cadairmanuk 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Neil Anderson:

Roads are ok to Cadair Idris , minffordd side is ok , dolgellau side to ty nant car park ok passable with care.

Ben
 JamesWilliams 22 Jan 2013
In reply to rodw: There is a lot of deep snow stick to buttresses and ridges if you can gullies would be deeply unpleasant and avalanche danger
In reply to Liam Brown: Newly plastered wall, all primed and ready to go but thanks for that! However, she's gone for the unpredicable spirit level bubble yarn <and a chinese meal> so I'll see you all down there on thursday. Happy day are here again
 mr mills 22 Jan 2013
In reply to Charlie Burbridge:

Gave a lift to a couple last night and they had done R/H Trinity, conditions were good on the first half to v.good on the upper half.
 j.townley 22 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Did the ramp today, early morning. New to this whole winter climbing thing, but seemed like it was in condition! plenty of ice on it
 Liam Brown 22 Jan 2013
In reply to blanchie14c:

I`ll pass your thanks on to my girlfriend. She`s planning on priming the walls Thursday while I`m in Wales. I`ll see you there.
 rodw 22 Jan 2013
In reply to JamesWilliams: thank for that sound advice will take onboard
In reply to Neil Anderson: Cheers I'll check it out
In reply to Cadairmanuk: Thanks for that Ben I'll look you up on twitter
 davegs 23 Jan 2013
Rescue in Devils Kitchen yesterday late afternoon. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21153195
davo77 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Anyone aware of any conditioned routes down the Llanberris pass?
Looking to head down tomorrow morning & possibly try some small routes then head over to Idwal stream again or something in that area!
Thanks guys, stay safe
 kez1 23 Jan 2013
Hi guys im looking to head out roughly mid feb. Only chance im getting
I am relatively new to winter stuff and was wondering if any local climbers knew roughly when good conditions tend to start tailing off.
Will I be too late or should I quit college and head down now?
In reply to chubbs2:

Was up in Cwm Lloer on Monday: http://horizonexpeds.blogspot.co.uk/

Also, on Clogwyn Du El Mancho was apparantly climbed yesterday
davo77 23 Jan 2013
In reply to RyanS:
I think Mark Reeves did that yesterday!
I could mistaken but I'm sure I saw that on Facebook took
 ianstevens 23 Jan 2013
In reply to kez1:
> Hi guys im looking to head out roughly mid feb. Only chance im getting
> I am relatively new to winter stuff and was wondering if any local climbers knew roughly when good conditions tend to start tailing off.
> Will I be too late or should I quit college and head down now?

Head down now. Conditions this good come but once every few years. It might happen again this year, it might not. The only way to tell is with a crystal ball.

And it's probably all going to thaw come the weekend.
davo77 23 Jan 2013
In reply to ianstevens:
Take a day off college mate or head up sat/sun
The conditions there are awesome, loads to do depending on preference & skill, I had my 1st time up there Sunday (1st winter) & had the pleasure of good company & Idwal stream in full condition, bit on the busy side but amazing to do!
I'd recommend getting there quick as like some people are saying it may not come again for a while!
Good luck & hope you find something that gives you the ice buzz!
Stay safe
Simon Panton 23 Jan 2013
In reply to davo77: I was out yesterday on the east side of Bristly Ridge - deep snow and plastered in thick rime.

I've posted some pics in the V12 gallery of wintery stuff from the last few days:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

I've also posted some route descriptions for stuff (such as Great Tower Buttress) done since the new guide was published on the Glyder Fach page on the welsh winter climbs wiki:

http://welshwinterclimbs.wetpaint.com/page/Glyder+Fach

philbrynmaen 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Broad Gully in Cwm Lloer was fantastic on Monday. Soft billowy snow and just a little ice. Stunning weather with great views. The yomp over Dafydd, Llewelyn and Helgi du was easy with only occasional deeper drifts. Walk into Cwn Lloer very straight forward.
On Tuesday we went up to Esgair Gully and Yr Esgair - tough slog up to the cwm. Very soft powder in Esgair Gully. The ridge itself was a little nervy as the turf was not consistently frozen so axe placements needed care. A few days of freeze-thaw needed all over from what we saw.
 Ramblin dave 23 Jan 2013
In reply to philbrynmaen:
What do people make of the forecast at the moment? Freeze-thaw or just thaw-thaw?
 stevez 23 Jan 2013
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I'd say thaw-thaw unfortunately! Trinity Face best hope of freeze-thaw.
In reply to mr mills: thanks, mate. I will have a look.

Charlie
 Joss 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Got up to Cwm Ceifion today hoping to do a few of the gully lines, unfortunately the weekend footfall had not consolidated the snow and we found ourselves walking into deep powder on the approach like on the weekend. We dropped down and had an enjoyable day on Seniors Ridge which is great in its current winter coat, good frozen turf and crisp snow where exposed to the wind, unfrozen turf under the snow layer though. If the buttresses are followed direct you can get some nice climbing. Walked down off the summit to see parties on the Ramp, Screen and Devils Pasture. Had a wander into the Devils Kitchen where the ice was not great and lot of water running behind it. Nice to get out despite very low vis.
 George_Surf 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Did the idwal stream and the ramp today, both good. plenty of people out, queueing for routes left right and center.

hoping to get on seargents gully II and then up on to sinister gully III tomorrow. any done them, are they in? Anyone know roughly how long the approach is to cwm glas? Is sinister gully all on ice or some (steepish) snow too, if there is snow, would it be too sketchy owing to how soft it is at the moment? whats the best way down off clogwyn y ddysgyl, it's not very clear in the guide. any advice much appreciated!
 Joss 23 Jan 2013
In reply to George_Surf:

Judging from Marks post it was full of powder the other day (sergeants) so it wont have changed. Its a cracking easy ice route when its in proper condition so in its current state would be completely different and doest sound worth doing.
 George_Surf 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Hmmm fair enough. Anyone suggest any grade II/III ice routes for tomorrow then? Preferably somewhere quieter than idwal if possible, although worst case we can settle for the devils pasture and the screen with about 20 other people!...
 George_Surf 23 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:


Anyone done the nameless stream? Looked like a lot of water when I walked past but bit hard to tell, I'm not even sure where the line goes, it looked like it split halfway up?
Apparently it's supposed to be between 1 and 3 degrees Friday and Saturday, is this likely to completely melt everything or will anything remain in condition for a potential trip on Saturday? Apologies for my ignorance, I'm new to winter climbing.
 Misha 24 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Most Idwal ice routes were in today and many got ascents. We did the Appendix (first ascent this season so the first since December 2010?). It has touched down, a bit scary to commit to the pillar as it isn't that thick at the bottom but it's supposed to be scary! Lots of water coming down in places and building it up, the gear was coated in ice from the spray. It will only be better on Thursday and Friday. I reckon the routes might still be in on Saturday so get on them before they're gone.
 Mark Haward 24 Jan 2013
In reply to George_Surf:
About 40 minutes to the start of Sargeants, depending on conditions, fitness and amount of beer consumed the night before.
Sinister, like all routes, varies depending on conditions. I remember a couple of ice sections followed by steep snow quickly easing off. Don'tknow current condition of snow, sorry.
Various ways down depending on skill / experience / conditions / energy. Parsley Fern can be a good fast descent, slopes to the right of Parsley Fern ( looking up ) can be tackled at a variety of angles. Descend to the Crib Goch col and walk back around to Cwm Glas or even via Crib Goch North Ridge. PYG and / or Miners tracks make for a longer but easier descent. Could link to a route on the Trinity Face (might need a headtorch!) Have fun...
 kez1 24 Jan 2013
In reply to davo 77 & ian stevens:
Thanks for the advice guys unfortunately it looks like my axes and crampons wont arrive just yet. Gutted
If anyone feels like taking a keen young person out and lending him some gear give me a shout.
 ox 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:Well done for climbing the Devils Appendix it has to be every ice climbers dream climb i looked at it last sunday after climbing the Idwal stream and i do not think i will ever be good enough to climb it but i keep dreaming.
 rockcatch 24 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Was out ice climbing in Idwal today. The conditions were OK on the Ramp - the ice was a bit fragile in places, but definitely climbable. It was fairly busy (3 teams in front of us and 2 behind), but not a problem. Photos at http://www.flickr.com/rockcatch

If you were the guy in green trousers and a red top climbing around what I think was the Devil's Pasture or Coldhouse Crack area I have a good photo of you at http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockcatch/8410996007/in/photostream
 wilkesley 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Mark / Alps:

> Various ways down depending on skill / experience / conditions / energy. Parsley Fern can be a good fast descent, slopes to the right of Parsley Fern ( looking up ) can be tackled at a variety of angles.

I have always like the description of Parsley Fern in my ancient Rick Newcombe guidebook: "A fast descent for the competent, even faster for those that aren't".
 Stash 24 Jan 2013
Got speaking to the guy in the green trousers, that was his second winter lead on the Devils Pasture. Great day today.
 AB1965 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha: Good effort, did the Appendix a couple of years ago but didnt need an umbrella or a wet suit.
Today we did South Gulley and the Screen. South was ok is, bit cruddy but many hooks. Screen was as good as I've seen it - v nice, some running water though.

Ramp look v good - dont get many pitches like that at the grade.

Devils Pipes is all there on the right hand side - didnt go and have a close look - fingers crossed it survives and goes cold.
davo77 24 Jan 2013
In reply to Stash:
Hey Stash, the lad in the green trousers was my lead on half of the Ramp & all of The Devil's Pasture.
His name is James williams.
We started the Devil's Pasture a little on the late side but committed to it & finished it off, bit scary on my part as it was my 3rd ever ice climb "Ever!" & because a few lads have fell over the last few days off this route i was a bit tetchy, but i did it with grace & dignity & absolutely loved it!!!
Had a fantastic day today on the ramp and the pasture as we'd previously been on Idwal stream on sunday also, weather was pants but today was gorgeous weather!
 JamesWilliams 24 Jan 2013
In reply to rockcatch: DUDE AWESOME PHOTE THANKS!!! my second winter lead! and only my second time on ice haha
In reply to davo77:
Doublekneebar and myself got up The Screen which was in good nick, a bit wet in the corner where the ice cave forms but good screws all the way and easy hooks. After lunch we got on Central, first pitch was okay but beyond it really wasn't in the best nick, turf not frozen, very thin ice so no screws and soft power at the top made it a scarey proposition. We were committed to it then but it was evidence a thaw has taken place today.

A team on central as it got dark - we think you may had dropped something, we found when returning for the sacks and was shouting you but you can't have heard. PM me what you think it maight be, would like to get it back to you.
davo77 24 Jan 2013
In reply to blanchie14c:

Ha ha until i speak to james iv no idea what it was that may have dropped out, i think im all accounted for gear wise!!!!

I will give him a text, maybe it was someone elses tack, thanx
 AB1965 24 Jan 2013
In reply to JamesWilliams: Well done- think we had a chat before you started- you said you only had six screws. Sorry If Id know this was your second route i would not have suggested getting on it.

Good effort

In reply to davo77: it was the team on central route, next to south gully, not devils pastrure. We'll done though, great effort mate
davo77 24 Jan 2013
In reply to AB1965:

Fair play though he got up well though, only 6 screws but we nailed it!!!

Loved every second
davo77 24 Jan 2013
In reply to blanchie14c:
Thanx buddy, James did the hard bit, next time its mine grrrrr
 AB1965 24 Jan 2013
In reply to davo77: He did a great job, saw fiddling with the belay. very very good lead- long one for a 3 and need to be delicate too.
In reply to AB1965: I think everyone has given the beta for idwal today - beautiful conditions and freezing hard when we left...cant believe rain/wind is sweeping in tomorrow. We were on South Gully and the Ramp - thanks to Huw for leading. Both in nice condition. Someone was ascending the Appendix this evening, by headtorch as we came down.

Hope it stays a bit longer for those planning on heading out at the weekend.
 mr mills 24 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

Did The Devils Kitchen today, not in great condition but quite fun !
 Rob Johnson 25 Jan 2013
I had a lovely day ski touring on Pen yr Helgi Du, absolutely beautiful.
 richprideaux 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

So, the big question, will there be anything left after the weekend?
Simon Panton 25 Jan 2013
In reply to Neil Anderson: It was Jon Ratcliffe and Sam Underhill on the Appendix.

I've posted some pics in the V12 gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/
 CurlyStevo 25 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
Appendix definitely looked like the main event in the Kitchen. We had a cracking couple of days, was my first visit.
In reply to Simon Panton: Well done John and Sam, great effort, you guys could be heard on the other side of the lake whooping with joy after topping out
 Lukeva 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: 2 of my mates on DA as I type, good luck to them. So jealous!!
 Frank Blakeley 25 Jan 2013
In reply to Lukeva: Has anyone been up Clogwyn y Garnedd recently looking at possibly doing Right Hand Trinity Saturday, was wondering what the conditions were like, any advice would be appreciated.

Frank
 daveh444 25 Jan 2013
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to Simon Panton)
> Appendix definitely looked like the main event in the Kitchen. We had a cracking couple of days, was my first visit.

Has anyone been out that way today ? is it as warm as the weather say's ?
In reply to torquil:
Anyone know what conditions are like today? thinking of heading over for tomorrow...

cheers guys
 richparry 25 Jan 2013
In reply to Cwallace:

It was raining in Ogwen this afternoon, and warmer than yesterday.
 JohnIs 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Back home after two days in Cwm Idwal.
Queues were quite bad on Tuesday, particularly on The Screen, Ramp and Devil's Pasture. Started Central Route but backed off before reaching the first ice as we had to wade through deep unconsolidated snow so the upper pitch would have been appalling.
After revisiting all the queues we soloed Idwal Stream and The Ramp.
On Wednesday, we started earlier but still found queues, so waited in line for Chicane Gully in poor condition, followed by a badly worn Devil's Pasture.
As we walked out under clear skies and brilliant moonlight, we looked back at a torch near the top of Devils' Appendix and another party looking for gear below Central Climb.
 Paul Crusher R 25 Jan 2013
In reply to JohnIs: Sounds like hell
davo77 25 Jan 2013
By all accounts it sounds like its been miserable there today?!?
Weve had rain & high winds here so dread to think how it was up there today, anyone know what the weather was up too upon leaving the hills today??
 Caralynh 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:

currently on A5 heading over for a walk or snowy easy climb tomorrow. Heavy snow settling on road between Oswestry and Llangollen.
 richparry 25 Jan 2013
In reply to davo77:
> By all accounts it sounds like its been miserable there today?!?
> Weve had rain & high winds here so dread to think how it was up there today, anyone know what the weather was up too upon leaving the hills today??

Raining in Ogwen at 4pm with a fresh westerly wind. Temperature about 3'at the car.
We went up the north ridge of Tryfan. plenty of wet snow low down but much better higher up.
None of the snow was consolidated, as you'd expect, but it doesn't really make that much difference there.
Home 30miles away now and its raining. forecast is better for tomorrow, but mild.
A fair number of parties in Cwm Idwal today. The temperature seemed higher than the forecast throughout a day. Ice was melting fast. P2 of Devil's Appendix was thin (hence bold), and getting rapidly even thinner. Turf at the top was not frozen at all. The path of Idwal, which was frozen in the early morning, was full of puddles by 3pm today Friday. Given the forecast, I'm afraid there's not much hope for the current good climbing-condition in N Wales to last...
Masa
 WILLS 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: anyone have a crystal ball to see how long this freeze will last. On the met office site for snowdonia it looks like Monday onwards will be melting! Anyone got any further forecasts?
 Misha 25 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
I've lost the crystal ball somewhere but the BBC monthly outlook suggests a possibility of a colder spell later in February. I guess that's hardly unexpected, a bit like saying that winter will be colder than summer, but to be fair they correctly anticipated the cold spell that we've just had. Have faith, winter isn't over yet! But the outlook for the next few days suggests that next weekend will be dry tooling, MTB or may be Scotland... Tuesday is looking particularly wet and mild and that could wash away all the snow - just like last time!
 Simon Caldwell 25 Jan 2013
In reply to WILLS:
> anyone have a crystal ball to see how long this freeze will last

until tomorrow afternoon
 jim jones 25 Jan 2013
In reply to davo77:
Did South Gully (Idwal) today nice chewy ice but quite bad spindrift slides at times. Conditions were ok but lying snow was a bit of a problem balling on my crampons on the descent (have to get some anti balling plates!). The Appendix looked in great condition and had at least three ascents today. Raining later but plenty of ice to go at if it's cold tonight.
 geoff b 26 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Had a quick race up to Cwm Glas this morning. Up PFLH & down Parsley Fern Gully. Lots of folk heading up PFG. Face Route looked in (R of Cyrn Las) Still lots of ice on Central Icefall. Heaps & heaps of snow in the upper cwm and signs of avalanche debris at the base of most of the gullies. The top 100m of the crag had good frozen turf. Yesterday's rain has by no means ended winter, it was still very cold 'Beris yesterday & still is on the tops today. Have to see what next week brings as the slight thaw has at least compressed all that powder from last week. I'm told the skiing above Cwm Lloer today was 'pants'!
 RichJ634 26 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: Managed The Ramp in Cwm Idwal today. Everything running with water. Rain at all levels.
 Joss 26 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil:
Drove through Ogwen this afternoon, 7 degrees at the roadside, heavy rain washing the snow away. The RAF rescue helicopter was landed in Cwm Cneifion for quite some time before flying off. Apparently a girl fell down Tower Gully and injured her ankle.
 Misha 26 Jan 2013
Idwal ice looked alluring but on closer inspection was streaming with water. A few teams out doing the least wet looking routes. We opted for South Gully and the ice there was fine apart from a couple of crumbly bits but there was a stream running down it that needed to be negotiated / avoided. The snow has been stripped back but the plateau below the Sub Cneifion Arête was still white. Wonder if things were better up in Cwm Cneifion. Going by the MWIS forecast, it might be worth checking out if you're keen...
 jaswa 26 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:

Did Chicane today - sketchy as hell in places and pouring with water. Felt a lot harder than grade to me in the conditions. We topped it about 1pm - raining hard.

Not checked the forcast tonight yet but i think the fat lady was singing as we came away.
 davegs 27 Jan 2013
In reply to Joss:
> (In reply to torquil)
> Drove through Ogwen this afternoon, 7 degrees at the roadside, heavy rain washing the snow away. The RAF rescue helicopter was landed in Cwm Cneifion for quite some time before flying off. Apparently a girl fell down Tower Gully and injured her ankle.

More details here http://www.ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incidents/incidents.php
 rodw 27 Jan 2013
In reply to davegs: do I take it a trip down to Snowdonia Monday for gullies or ridges is a waste of time
In reply to torquil:

Was in Ogwen Sat and Sunday, amazed to see how quickly the ive routes around the kitchen have dissapeared.

Saturday they were wet but quite a few were getting climbed, today they all looked unclimbabable with large parts of most of them missing completely.

Went up into Cwm Cneifion today and it is still freezing up there.
 tobykeep 27 Jan 2013
In reply to rodw:

Think you might get blown off a ridge! Looks super windy, gusting to 100mph by the end of the day according to MWIS.
In reply to torquil: I'd say winter season in N wales is officially closed.....
 Simon4 27 Jan 2013
In reply to jaswa:

> Did Chicane today - sketchy as hell in places and pouring with water.

Chicane felt frankly terrifying the day before, though there was a hard frost on Thursday night which may have preserved it, such as it was.



 jim jones 27 Jan 2013
In reply to Simon4:
> (In reply to jaswa)
>
> [...]
>
> Chicane felt frankly terrifying the day before, though there was a hard frost on Thursday night which may have preserved it, such as it was.

Was that Friday? I could here someone on it when I was on South Gully. Chicane is hard for the grade (typical Idwal!).
 Simon4 27 Jan 2013
In reply to jim jones: No, that was Thursday.

The steep ice pitch was demanding, but would have been OK if the ice had only been properly attached to the underlying rock. Steep ice I can handle, detached ice is a bit more problematic.

After that it was an extended period of nervous tiptoeing up unconsolidated crud.
 Nigel Modern 28 Jan 2013
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
> (In reply to torquil) I'd say winter season in N wales is officially closed.....

Nooooo! Hopefully not anyway. The commonest time to have good snow and ice in Snowdonia in my experience is mid-end Feb...this was an early taster.
 AB1965 28 Jan 2013
In reply to davo77: He did a great job, saw fiddling with the belay. very very good lead- long one for a 3 and need to be delicate too.
 Joss 29 Jan 2013
In reply to Nigel Modern:
> (In reply to highclimber)
> [...]
>
> Nooooo! Hopefully not anyway. The commonest time to have good snow and ice in Snowdonia in my experience is mid-end Feb...this was an early taster.

That hasnt happened since 2010.
Fingers crossed though.

 WILLS 29 Jan 2013
In reply to Joss: here we go. +10c today windy as hell. There may be a freeze mid feb I hope!
 Tony the Blade 30 Jan 2013

Not exactly a conditions report, but here's an aerial photo of Snowdon taken yesterday by Carl Hudson, the H.E.M.S paramedic on Helimed 62 (the N Wales aeromed heli)

(Facebook only I'm afraid)

http://tinyurl.com/akaz2a5
 CurlyStevo 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Tony the Blade:
Looks hopeful there will be quite a lot snow (and ice ?) left by the time the next freeze cycle hits Friday (up till then highest summits in wales probably mostly below freezing anyway) Going in to next week ecmwf looks likely Northerly / NW winds will set in tuesday.
Simon Panton 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Tony the Blade: I don't think that photo was taken yesterday - the general snow cover has been quite dramatically stripped. Maybe the date means when it was posted?

From my house I can see strips and banks of old snow all around Cloggy and at the base of Crib Goch (not surprising given how much snow there was). I reckon there will still be snow in the trinity face gullies - how much I don't know, it's been too stormy to consider venturing up for a look.

Cold on Friday and saturday - so definitely worth a look then.
 RichJ634 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Tony the Blade: That photo wasn't taken yesterday!!
 Tony the Blade 30 Jan 2013
In reply to Gob_Stopper and Simon:

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only reporting what was written.
 WILLS 31 Jan 2013
In reply to torquil: that photo isn't current I'm afraid.
http://www.fhc.co.uk/weather/images/sn_huge.jpg
Follow that link, it's a live web feed of snowdon. Then make your decision on the weather.
 WILLS 01 Feb 2013
In reply to WILLS: here are the links for web cams in ogwyn valley
http://www.ogwen-rescue.org.uk/oggi_cam/
 Joss 02 Feb 2013
Absoltely perfect winter conditions today in Cwm Cneifion. Snow was rock hard. A few parties on the gully lines which have finally come into condition. Useless info though as it looks like its going back to slush puppy weather tomorrow! Will post a video of Hidden Gully in a bit. Best snow conditions in a long time..
 Joss 02 Feb 2013
In reply to Joss:

Conditions in the Cwm:
vimeo.com/58794375

Inside Hidden Gully:
vimeo.com/58794376

Top of Hidden Gully:
vimeo.com/58794377
 Nigel Modern 03 Feb 2013
In reply to Joss: We camped in lower Cwm Glas Friday and planned to go scrambling but found perfect winter conditions on the ridge.

We ascended Bwlch Coch rather than north ridge of Crib Goch as planned - a little navigation error but it just looked so inviting. Rest of the ridge to Snowdon was in very good nick.

Bwlch Coch is not in 'Welsh Winter Climbs' either as ascent or descent - it says to go to Pen-y-Pass because the only descent into Cwm Glas is Parsley Fern and then not for the unwary. We ascended Bwlch Coch without crampons which we'd left in the car the night before - it would have been only a slightly tip toe descent too and with crampons a doddle. Snow was good and firm but it looked like it would have gone in a range of conditions.
 KellyKettle 05 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Woke up to a thin cover of hail and frozen snow in bangor... Hopeful sign for things higher up?
 AdCo82 05 Feb 2013
Any updates for on the hills themselves?

Specifically Carneddau and Tryfan. Has the majority of snow melted or been washed away?
 Joss 05 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

The webcams showed fresh snow in Ogwen today..
 Mike Peacock 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Nigel Modern:
> (In reply to Joss) We camped in lower Cwm Glas Friday and planned to go scrambling but found perfect winter conditions on the ridge.
>
> We ascended Bwlch Coch rather than north ridge of Crib Goch as planned - a little navigation error but it just looked so inviting. Rest of the ridge to Snowdon was in very good nick.

What do you mean, specifically? That you ascended from Cwm Uchaf to Bwlch Coch? If so it's documented as a way to gain the ridge in Hillwalking in Wales. In summer it's a scree/grass rake, good views of the pinnacles:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/6124061642/sizes/l/
 Banned User 77 05 Feb 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: It's also a standard descent on the fastest line of the 3000ers.. some easy scree running.. steep going, wouldn't say its a grade 1 in winter..

In summer it has bits of trods running into it/down it..
 Greenman28 06 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

a dusting of snow on the Carneddau, glyders and Snowdon today with lots of rime ice covering rocks. Not that much snow and strong gusts on the tops. Went up hidden gully in Cneifion which was all still pretty consolidated. Feeling pretty parky too....
Simon Panton 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Greenman28: Just took a pic of Snowdon and Cloggy from Caban in Brynrefail:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/
 James91 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: What do you reckon about anything being in this weekend? hoping to make the trip up to have a looksee.
 mr mills 06 Feb 2013
In reply to James91:

Had a chatt with a couple on thir way down from the Watkin path earlier on and they turned back at Bwlch y Saethau as there was to much ice there, they did not have crampons and they said other walkers up there had crampon, on the way up Nantgwynant the Snowdon group looked pretty well cacked up, how consolidated the snow is that`s another thing, might get colder towards the end of the week so fingers crossed.
Simon Panton 06 Feb 2013
In reply to James91: High gully lines should still be holding old hard snow (Cwm Cneifion, Craig Dafydd, Clogwyn y Garnedd, Cwm Glas) and there'll be good sport on high buttress and ridge routes (snow cover not too thick so turf insulation unlikely).

Basically, it's been cold all week so you should find decent conditions by the weekend as long as you get high up.

Plus, there's more snow falling and forecast for the next few days.

 greg_may_ 06 Feb 2013
In reply to Greenman28:

Was up on Carnedd Dafydd today via East ridge on Pen Y Old Wen. Some snow, mostly light, lots of ice over all the rock, not great snow. Descent down the south ridge was a mush.
 greg_may_ 06 Feb 2013
In reply to greg_may_:

Forgot to add, turf was not solid below 700m.
 davebonner 06 Feb 2013
In reply to greg_may_:

Mooched around in cwm cneifion today, I had been out last friday evening when the snow was good then. Unfortunately much degradation has occured since then and the snow wasnt very good, slushy with a dusting of recent light fresh snow. Felt awful!
 Nigel Modern 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: I don't think it's listed as a winter route Mike. I know it as an emergency/alternative descent from Crib Goch in non-winter conditions only.

My winter guide ignores it as a descent into Cwm Glas completely but I'd say it is a very useful descent if you need to get back into Cwm Glas and don't fancy descending back down Parsley Fern etc In any case Parsley Fern as a descent is only cautiously recommended.

We gained the ridge from Cwm Glas side. Is that Cwm Uchaf?
 JamesWilliams 07 Feb 2013
In reply to AB1965: Haha yea was pretty tough for a second lead but I think when it came the steep step with quite thin ice it was more of a mental game for me! as always once you make the move you dont know what all the fuss was about :P some experience in the bag tho
 Mike Peacock 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Nigel Modern:
> (In reply to Mike Peacock)
>
> We gained the ridge from Cwm Glas side. Is that Cwm Uchaf?

Yes, it's the high cwm above Cwm Glas, but below Crib Goch. Another descent into (upper) Cwm Glas is from approx SH 612 558 and down in a sort of easterly direction towards Llyn Bach. Spots of easy scrambling and grass in summer.
pix 07 Feb 2013
In reply to James91: I'm going to be around Friday and Saturday and looking for partners. Keen to climb some classic Vs somewhere if you or anyone else is available. I've got a full rack and 1/2 rope in the car...

Ben

07939 028568
 Nigel Modern 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Mike Peacock: Ta mate
 Nigel Modern 07 Feb 2013
In reply to Nigel Modern: btw Cwm Uchaf in winter is awesomely beautiful
 Mr-Cowdrey 07 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: does anyone know what the conditions on the black Ladders is like at the moment, and whether we'll be in with a chance of any ice on Pyramid or Central gully? Or the Idwal, Cwm Cneifon areas?
 Nigel Modern 08 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Video of Carnedd Ugain ridge last Saturday should appear here soon: youtube.com/watch?v=jC6hwOpDVNM&

Left the 10 pointers in the car to save weight because we thought we'd be scrambling. Only used the Spiders at the end of the day, however I'd recommend full crampons.

Forgot to rotate the headcam...sorry - best viewed on a tablet. The view at lunch was stupendous.
 richard s 08 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Anyone been up Snowdon this week? Wondered what Trinity Gully is like - any chance it will have good neve?

If not, any other suggestions for grade 1 gully?
 Tony2 08 Feb 2013
In reply to richard s:
Met two guys who climbed Banana Gully today. They said the snow was ok ish. They apparently climbed right hand trinity yesterday.
 jim jones 08 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:
Climbed in Cwm Glas today quite good conditions high up; we did Fallen Block Climb on Crib Y Ddysgyl and (accidentally) added a variant third pitch due to my inability to interpret the difference between a slab and a wall! It's an excellent route but quite sustained and very worthwhile, overall we thought it worth IV/V.
 AdCo82 09 Feb 2013
Has anyone got an update for conditions underfoot in the Carneddau?
 George_Surf 09 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

Went up to cwm cneifion on thursday. Snow from about the tower gully area. We did tower gully on fairly good snow and lots of good ice. a team on tower slabs said that it was surprisingly good with plenty of ice. wouldnt expect anything below 750m.
Mausman. 09 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

That was me and tom r on Tower Slabs,good to meet you guys on the descent, as said above surprisingly good conditions, ice a bit thin and wet at the start but soon improved and would take screws nearer the top. Found a steep fun finish we'd not done before which was quite fat. If todays thaw doesn't continue too long I imagine there may be something left next week.
 AdCo82 09 Feb 2013
Has anyone been out today? Is the snow / ice surviving or being rained away?

Specifically interested in Ogwen and Carneddau!
 The Bad Cough 09 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas: wandered into Cwm lloer for a look, washing away quickly. Praying for a re freeze now.
 Joss 09 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

Got up to Cwm Cneifion, the temperatures hadnt been as cold as was forecast but there was still a surprising amount of thawing ice on Tower Slabs. We did Tower Gully and found a lot of ice on the crux, thawing out but reasonably chewy. Snow was firm but not hard like last week.
Pics here, will post a video shortly.


http://i49.tinypic.com/wh1z4m.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/34g10d4.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2njft4z.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/10yjnkx.jpg
 Joss 10 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:
Took a short video around Tower Gully, sadly this could be the last of the conditions.
http://vimeo.com/m/59312850
http://vimeo.com/m/59312851
http://vimeo.com/m/59312852
 ox 10 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Did Parsley Fern Gully on saturday and the top half of the gully had good hard snow below that very soft with any ice falling off the rocks.It felt like plus 4 on the tops.
Some one gave sinister gully ago but backed off the ice fall pitch,its all there high up and with more snow and a refreeze it will be good winters not over.
 Dom Whillans 10 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:
Did hidden gully and Y gully right hand yesterday. not classic conditions, but good enough... some ice, frozen turf, solid snow. very warm up there though.
 MarkDerby 10 Feb 2013
Hidden Gully was good fun yesterday. A lot better than I'd have thought from the A5! Good to meet you guys. It was my son Sean leading after you topped out. Thanks for the advice and encouragement you gave him. Made his day! Glad to see you managed to go down the headwall and get up your original objective.
In reply to An Triubhas:

Did Right Hand Trinity on Sat. Good fun despite relatively warm conditions. Snow from approx 650m upwards, v soft and saturated with water. Plenty of snow in the gully itself, no ice, nothing frozen. Generally thawing all the way to the summit, small amounts of snow sloughing off and falling down the route. Firmer snow below surface and with snowpack appearing to be uniformly saturated a re-freeze would bring it into really nice condition.
 greg_may_ 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Cuillin Calling:

Anyone local confirm if there was much snow?

Sitting in Denbigh and can see some white tops sticking out of the clouds if I look at the right time
 AdCo82 11 Feb 2013
In reply to greg_may_:

I'll be interested in that too....although it's meant to go warm by Friday
 Joss 11 Feb 2013
In reply to greg_may_:
Google Ogwen Webcam
 greg_may_ 11 Feb 2013
In reply to Joss:

Nice one! Didn't know that existed. Hopefully it'll be cold tonight then
 smuffy 11 Feb 2013
In reply to greg_may_: Some useful links for you:

http://www.5hort5.co.uk/webcams.html

A multitude of UK national parks webcams.

http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Snowdon/6day/mid

This will give you an idea of snow line and temperature expectations.

Keep an eye on MWIS, the webcams and snow forecast in the days prior to your trip and you give yourself more of a fighting chance. Good luck!
 JohnIs 12 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Visited Upper Cwm Glas on Saturday. Sinister Gully didn't appear to have its main pitch but another party went exploring in that area. Climbed Parsley Fern Gully. All ice was soft and the snow pack was saturated, though we managed to find old moist neve in the centre of the gully. Continued to Snowdon summit and saw tracks emerging from Central Trinity and a party topping out on RH Trinity which was only just above the Freezing Level.
Sunday was colder, snowing hard and settling down to Glaslyn. Intended an early start on Central Trinity but decided to abandon the route and go home early.
athickett 12 Feb 2013
In reply to smuffy:

Thanks for those that gave a useful reply, I think I'll take some extra kit for people and judge it on the day, useful to get some local info though. Hope we get to a top somewhere.

Thanks again

Adam
Has anyone been out today? What are the ground conditions like?
 AdCo82 12 Feb 2013
bump
 RichJ634 12 Feb 2013
In reply to airbournegrapefruit: Bitter cold today and hard frost last night at valley level. Decent covering of snow from the looks of it too. Would like to hear from someone has been out though!
 stargazer85 12 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

Get out early in the morning!
Was out around Idwal and Cneifion today and had a great stomp up the back of the cwm. Solid ground and very little wind.
Forecast is for a thaw tomorrow afternoon tho.
 AdCo82 13 Feb 2013
In reply to stargazer85:

has it all pretty much been washed away?

I presume it'll be gone by the weekend?
 richparry 13 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:
It's been snowing in North Wales this morning
 Trevers 13 Feb 2013
In reply to richparry: How much? Webcams suggest it's just wet but I can't see the summits.
 richparry 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers:
I'm about 20 miles east of Capel Curig and there's snow in the garden. Don't know about Snowdonia, but the clwydians and the Denbigh moors are white.
Simon Panton 13 Feb 2013
In reply to richparry: Clouds broke a bit earlier and it still looked plenty white high up.

I haven't been out this week (torn bicep) but Lee Roberts reported excellent conditions yesterday up on Glyder Fawr:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/13/procrastination-direct-vi-7-%E2%80%93-brilliant-addition-to-gl...

Friday looks like it could be good high up.
 AdCo82 13 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:

It looks wet on any of the webcams and the forecasts don't look too promising either.

How high are you thinking for decent conditions to survive the weekend?

is snowdon and glyders the best bet?

Is it looking like the Carneddau will be stripped?
 mr mills 13 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:

Raining heavily in Nant Ffrancon all day very mild, snowed for a while in Dyffryn Mymbyr then turned to rain.
Lots of snow has been stripped from the Glyderau today, driving home looking towards the Carneddau, Carnedd Llywelyn semed to hold quite a lot of snow, forecast is to get milder !
Just came back from Cwm Cneifion. high winds full of snow & frozen rain ouch.
Tower Gully virtually continuous small avalanche. The higher gully near the tower unsafe today full of spindrift over old snow/ice I guess.
Simon Panton 13 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas: MWIS is predicting a freezing level of 900m so the only places that are really worth a punt are Clogwyn y Garnedd, Cwm Cneifion and Craig Dafydd.

No guarantees that fl prediction is right, not that there ever is.
 Cadairmanuk 13 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

10c sat in the car tonight in southern Snowdonia, lashing it down.

Ben
 Trevers 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Cadairmanuk:

I'm guessing there is nothing left now at all, and no point coming for the weekend. Can anyone confirm?
 AdCo82 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers:

Just go anyway and enjoy the hills.....that's what I'm doing
 Trevers 14 Feb 2013
In reply to An Triubhas:
> (In reply to Trevers)
>
> Just go anyway and enjoy the hills.....that's what I'm doing

I think I will anyway, since working in London makes you constantly dream of being somewhere better (hoping to move before the year is out) and I have a day's holiday. It's just a massive pain in the arse when you can't plan for a decent winter weekend any more than two days in advance. I'm guessing I'm not the only one that knows this frustration!

Forecast is looking bright and clear for Sunday. No winter weather but maybe perfect for a good day's scrambling!
 Skinny Kin 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers:
Apart from the very top of Snowdon, which is in the clouds right now, any snow on the lower slopes have been washed off by the incessant rain on Wednesday. Time to go rock climbing this weekend I reckon!
Simon Panton 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers: The Met office prediction is for a 800m freezing level on Sunday. Lower exposed slopes might be stripped but Clogwyn y Garnedd often retains a surprising amount of snow in its gullies, especially if there has already been some freeze thaw (which there has). I'd keep an open mind - you might need your crampons yet this weekend.
 Skinny Kin 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> The Met office prediction is for a 800m freezing level on Sunday.

MWIS suggests temperature inversion. That probably explains 800m FL and above 800m is above freezing. So it may be warmer on the summits.
Simon Panton 14 Feb 2013
In reply to Skinny Kin: Fair point, but they'll probably change that forecast come Saturday night!
Simon Panton 15 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: Just took a shot of Cwm Glas this afternoon as I was driving up the Pass. As I thought there is still lots of snow in the main gully lines. Providing the temps stay low enough (see Met Office for Sun-Mon-Tue) it bodes well for the Clogwyn y Garnedd gullies too.

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/15/cwm-glas-2/

Winter ain't over yet folks!
Slightly out of date update but historical conditions are useful for anyone planning:

I was up on Tryfan and Bristly Ridge last Monday and it was all fresh powder, about a foot or so on the leeward side. No nothing frozen under the snow as far as I found but good fun.

Tuesday we went up to Clogwyn Du. Snow up in the Cwm and everything was well frozen above 800m, and especially on the routes at 900m+. Plenty of snow but not much neve although it was starting to thaw-freeze a little on Tuesday. Plenty of wind slab in places (I was finding a couple of dining table size slabs in isolation). The descent from the top of the routes does require getting over a growing cornice but the snow slopes were an easy powder stomp.

Wednesday we turned for home. Snow fell in the valleys first thing which quickly turned to rain. If the snow up top has stayed there could be very good conditions, but watch out for avalanche risks from wind slab as that layering is storing up trouble.
 Trevers 17 Feb 2013
In reply to mountain_stephen:

I was up on Snowdon today. Absolutely glorious day, summer conditions at Pen-y-Pass. My mate and I are only on our first winter, and not being sure of conditions or our ability we chose to scramble up Y Gribin and up to the summit from there. Since this face was in the sun the snow, though still deep at points, is slushy and wet and the snowline is high up. Chatted to some guys on the summit who had come up Central Trinity- They'd been climbing since 1977 and said it was in great nick. Coming down PYG track, the gullies of the Trinity Face have obviously all retained their snow.

Amazing how many people were on the summit without basic winter gear, despite the PYG track being extremely slippery higher up. Kind of understand the people in boots with hiking poles, since I've done that myself through being overly keen, but I saw people heading for the summit in trainers, jeans and hoodies, with only a small backpack which presumably didn't contain crampons, a headtorch, extra layers for all body parts, an emergency shelter or first aid kit. Seems very little point in attempting to talk sense into people.
Simon Panton 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers: Conditions in the gullies were very good. I came up Parsley Fern Left Hand in Cwm Glas. Some avalanche debris at the bottom:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/avalanche-debris/

Snow was mostly good neve (albeit with the odd sugary bit) and there was even some good ice on the steeper sections:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/parsley-fern-and-parsley-fern-left-hand/

Walked over the top and Clogwyn y Garnedd was really wintery. All main gully lines (with the exception of Snowdrop and Couloir) holding complete runs of snow. I was in a rush to get back but heard of good neve in Central Trinity:

Some pics here:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/clogwyn-y-garnedd-2/

and a few more in the rest of the gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/

Not many climbers around (I know only of two other teams) - shame as the conditions were superb. It was really cold too - the small lake at the bottom of Clogwyn y Ddysgl was frozen over and the turf felt good where I had to use it. I guess people were put off by that MWIS forecast of a temp inversion (which never happened), and perhaps some of the negative 'it's all over' comments on here.

Plenty cold this coming week - go get it while you can!

(Whoever handed my camera in at Pen y Pass, after I stupidly left it by the side of the PyG track when I took my crampons off - thanks, you are a star!)
 Trevers 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> (In reply to Trevers) Conditions in the gullies were very good. I came up Parsley Fern Left Hand in Cwm Glas. Some avalanche debris at the bottom:
>
> http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/avalanche-debris/
>
> Snow was mostly good neve (albeit with the odd sugary bit) and there was even some good ice on the steeper sections:
>
> http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/parsley-fern-and-parsley-fern-left-hand/
>
> Walked over the top and Clogwyn y Garnedd was really wintery. All main gully lines (with the exception of Snowdrop and Couloir) holding complete runs of snow. I was in a rush to get back but heard of good neve in Central Trinity:
>
> Some pics here:
>
> http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/18/clogwyn-y-garnedd-2/
>
> and a few more in the rest of the gallery:
>
> http://news.v12outdoor.com/gallery/
>
> Not many climbers around (I know only of two other teams) - shame as the conditions were superb. It was really cold too - the small lake at the bottom of Clogwyn y Ddysgl was frozen over and the turf felt good where I had to use it. I guess people were put off by that MWIS forecast of a temp inversion (which never happened), and perhaps some of the negative 'it's all over' comments on here.
>
> Plenty cold this coming week - go get it while you can!
>
> (Whoever handed my camera in at Pen y Pass, after I stupidly left it by the side of the PyG track when I took my crampons off - thanks, you are a star!)

I wish I could. Stuck back in London again and I limit my climbing weekends to once a month at the moment in an attempt to keep my friends and lady-friend. It's my first winter out so I erred on the side of caution. I'm hoping to do another weekend at the end of March, do you think there is any likelihood of good winter weather that late?
Simon Panton 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Trevers: The end of March is not impossible, but nonetheless unlikely. The latest I've winter climbed in North Wales is the third week in March.
 Rob Johnson 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: A great day on Snowdon today. Central Trinity was lovely and Crib Goch very Alpine. A short video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1QdKfuZl1U&feature=youtu.be
 chiz 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
From Friday afternoon in Cwm Cneifon, not got topo to hand for route names:

Bit of ice hanging in on Tower Slabs, Tower Gully looking bit incomplete, ice on the un-named gully at the left of the headwall, Easy Gully over-shadowed by sagging cornice on left with avalanche debris at base -may be old?, tiny bit of ?Spectral Wall hanging on, and ?Clogwyn Left Hand looked like it might survive a few days as was reasonably fat. Routes further right looked pretty much all detached ice and not worth risking for us.

Crags all black, we found no frozen turf, snow had a frozen crust but non-weight bearing, cracks in some snow slopes suggesting start of spontaneous wet snow slides.

Cracking day to be out, walked off with jet black sky full of stars.
 chiz 18 Feb 2013
In reply to chiz: Surprising amount of snow on north ridge of Tryfan on Saturday, although west face rock routes were dry and sunny with blue skies. Banana Gully looked mostly complete,although less so than Friday.
bullandbladder 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: I liked your video - is that a GoPro on the end of a walking pole?
 Tim Sparrow 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> (In reply to Trevers) The end of March is not impossible, but nonetheless unlikely. The latest I've winter climbed in North Wales is the third week in March.

Did Central Trinity in April one year ..... must have been late 80's though!

 dgp 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: Stunning - thanks for sharing this with us.
 Nigel Modern 18 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: Fantastic video, thank you. Nice use of the pole and the dog is a star.
 Rob Johnson 18 Feb 2013
In reply to bullandbladder: Thanks for the kind comments.

Its a Go Pro 3 and its mounted on a Go Pro Pole which collapses nice and small. I have tried a walking pole but broke the bracket whilst using it as a walking pole rather than camera mount!
uclanclimber 18 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

Did Ladies gully today. Was frozen until the top which the sun had hit. the turf is frozen bomber and there was quite a lot of Ice.

Surprising given how warm it was walking in. Worth a day out but a south facing rock route might have been better. Did anyone say Spring?
 jezb1 18 Feb 2013
In reply to uclanclimber: Today was rock climbing weather!
 thecurlyone 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson:

What an amazing steep dog walk! Truly inspiring. Went up seniors ridge (ogwen) with my dog (Dotty) before but would love to work up to be able to take her over Crib Goch. Did you have to assist your fury companion at all?
Simon Panton 19 Feb 2013
In reply to jezb1:
> (In reply to uclanclimber) Today was rock climbing weather!

Maybe, but you can rock climb all year, best to get the winter action when you can, no?

Simon Panton 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Tim Sparrow:
> (In reply to Simon Panton)
> [...]
>
> Did Central Trinity in April one year ..... must have been late 80's though!

Yeah, it does happen, especially with the snow gullies, they can hang in for ages once they've turned to neve.
Simon Panton 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: Cool film Rob, the dog looked like he was having fun!
 Run_Ross_Run 19 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

Can anyone give an indication of the conditions on Snowdon/C G at the moment.

Will be up there Thursday and would be nice to know what the conditions may be like.

Hopefully do anticlockwise horseshoe if its ok.

Cheers.
 mux 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> (In reply to Rob Johnson) Cool film Rob, the dog looked like he was having fun!

I second that ^

and add .... your dog is Ace ! ..beats my cats
 jezb1 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
> (In reply to jezb1)
> [...]
>
> Maybe, but you can rock climb all year, best to get the winter action when you can, no?

Ha, I'm only messing!

But how much rain did we have up here last year? Got to make the most of dry rock....!

I couldn't do either, was working on an ML, but good to be out in the sun.
 mr mills 19 Feb 2013
In reply to Darren09:

I was up on Glyder Fawr today, looking (with binoculars) towards the Snowdon group and the Trinities looked very good, I can only guess as the old snow on y Glyderad was ice hard.
Cwm Cneifion looked like some stuff was ok there ! Hidden Gulley, Clogwyn Du r/h possibly and there was superb cornice as you look down to the cwm by the easy descent route to the Cwm.
Hope that`s useful Darren, think the weather will become colder towards the end of the week as well !

mills
 Mr-Cowdrey 20 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: possibly heading up this weekend. Any idea on the conditions on Clogwyn Du? I've got Cleft gully, Clogwyn left hand and pillar chimney in mind if that helps. Looks to be getting colder too.
 richard s 20 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Did Central Trinity today, conditions were excellent, snow good solid neve. Looked like the Alps first thing in morning, then cloud closed in halfway up the route. Looks like it should stay good for rest of week if it stays cold.

Richard
 richard s 20 Feb 2013
In reply to Rob Johnson: Brilliant video Rob, went up there today and snow still superb.
 spiderzac 20 Feb 2013
Solid névé in hidden gully last night
 carievans67 21 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Anybody know what conditions in southern snowdonia look like for this weekend? ...am thinking cader idris or aran fawddwy/craig cywarch area.
 SamP88 21 Feb 2013
I live near Harlech in South Snowdonia, I doubt you'll find much or any neve on Cader if that's what you're after. Y Llethr 750m in the Rhinogs appears to be totally free of old snow. I'm thinking of going up a gully on Snowdon this weekend. Would be interested to see what you find on cader if you go hope I'm wrong!
In reply to carievans67: I was up Cadair yesterday (via Cwm Cau). Ground fully frozen from around 700m, extremely little in the way of snow except tucked away in small crevices. There may be more on the north side though I couldn't really see anything down that side when I was there.
Rob Stratton 21 Feb 2013
I'm planning to come up to Snowdonia this weekend. Any updates welcome! Has anyone done any routes like Great Gully on Clogwyn y Garnedd? Any ice build up over this weeks cold? Thanks, Rob
uclanclimber 21 Feb 2013
Primo conditions again in Cwm Glass and on the trinity face today (did parsley fern left hand and end gully). Sergent's gully was forming and might go this weekend. Cascade and the others are starting to form too.

The North Side of Cadair looked totally black as I drove home today.

Lawrence
 RichJ634 21 Feb 2013
In reply to uclanclimber: More ice around in Llanberis Pass this eve than I've seen all winter (I drive through it on the commute every day) - although maybe before what ice there was, was camouflaged by snow. Not very familiar with routes and guide is packed in preparation for moving house (doh!) but didn't see all that much that is climbable yet. Anyone been up to Cwm Idwal? With the ice knocking around in the Pass figured that things might be forming up nicely?
Willice 21 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Hi. My mate, Ray, and I were in Tower Gully in the Nameless Cwm around 12.30 today when two rocks came down. The first was dinner plate size and wizzed overhead. There was no warning and we shouted up that we were there. Then the second, a 50cm flake came bouncing down and hit Ray in the face. Again, no warning "Below". We retreated.
Ray has a deep gash on his chin and dental problems.
If beginners are going on the hill in winter, it would be good if they knew a few basic rules.
 BnB 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Willice: We did Hidden Gully Right Branch in Cwm Cneiffion this afternoon. Good (if short) with an awkward chockstone finish. Bomber neve everywhere in, on and around the crag and plenty of good water ice on several routes. Factor in a beautiful sunny day and you have a recipe for a great day on the hill. Snow level is pretty high though. Don't expect just to saunter into Cwm Idwal for your kicks.
 Joss 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Willice:
> (In reply to torquil) Hi. My mate, Ray, and I were in Tower Gully in the Nameless Cwm around 12.30 today when two rocks came down. The first was dinner plate size and wizzed overhead. There was no warning and we shouted up that we were there. Then the second, a 50cm flake came bouncing down and hit Ray in the face. Again, no warning "Below". We retreated.
> Ray has a deep gash on his chin and dental problems.
> If beginners are going on the hill in winter, it would be good if they knew a few basic rules.

Very common on that route..one to take care if people are above.. the upper 'bowl' is full of loose rocks. Same thing happened to me and a friend there.

 cragtyke 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Willice: Sorry to hear about Ray's accident and hope he recovers ok. We set off up Tower Gully about 10.30-11.00 so there's a chance we could've been the guilty party but I'm sure we were off the route well before 12.30 (as we'd had a break, downclimbed Easy route and done Hidden Gully right hand after queueing for a bit,possibly behind BnB, by 2.30)and there wasn't even anybody else in the upper cwm when we set off up TG. In the upper section of the route, as Joss says, there's a lot of uncovered loose rock and my mate did dislodge a rock,and shout below as you'd expect, but certainly nothing 50cm in size. If we did cause the accident, and i'm not saying we did, then I can't apologise enough. However, on routes over 100m in length I don't think you can rely on calls up or down a route to be heard, nor can you expect parties above you, particularly in narrow gullies, not to send down some debris, beginners or not, experience tells you to keep well out of the way. I've had a gashed forehead myself courtesy of a partner leading a pitch above me. Nobody sets out to endanger other people but sometimes accidents will happen so we have to be on our guard.
 Deezel65 21 Feb 2013
In reply to Willice: hi Willace, I was the guy climbing with crag tyke today in tower gully, definitely around 11am, but I did dislodge a rock in the upper section and shouted 'below' as loud as I possibly could, but it is a long route and that section is high up. If it was me that caused the accident I am very sorry to Ray, but I did holler below. I wish him a speedy recovery.
Simon Panton 22 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: Excellent conditions on Clogwyn y Garnedd yesterday. Snow all still good neve but the right side of the crag has rimed up nicely in the last few days. Significant ice build up too. Titanal (below Crib Goch) even looked like it was coming in!

Some pics in the V12 gallery:

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/22/clogwyn-y-garnedd-right-hand-side/

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/22/gwyn-ein-byd-v-5/

http://news.v12outdoor.com/2013/02/22/gwyn-ein-byd-top-bulge/

Quite a few teams around enjoying the whiteness.
Simon Panton 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton: I should mention that I managed to take that slightly crap Gwyn Ein Byd pic by operating my mobile phone with my nose! Tricky - but I was getting showered by spin drift so didn't want to take my gloves off.
mysterion 22 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:

Get to Trinity face now. It is in. It is wintery. From bottom to top.
 jim jones 22 Feb 2013
In reply to Simon Panton:
Still excellent today on Clogwyn y Garnedd probably as good as it's been this century; could be a bit busy this weekend! Saw a few teams heading up with bivvi gear this afternoon.
 SamP88 23 Feb 2013
In reply to jim jones:
We've been up hidden gully on cwm cneifion, sadly the route was spoilt by steps kicked in before the route was neve. Do you know has the same not happened on central trinity? Great conditions in the cwm today
 jim jones 23 Feb 2013
In reply to SamP88:

Wasn't on The Trinities we did Ladies Gully. Kicking steps is a bit inconsiderate imagine people not waiting for perfect conditions.
 Misha 23 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:
Passed through Cwm Cneifion today. Clogwyn Ddu is pretty much black, pity as the turf is solid. Looked like all the ice routes were in though. There was a team on Clogwyn LH. We didn't have time so just played around on some ice dribbles on the Tower Slabs side, which provided some good fun, then a minor gully to the top. Strangely, the snow was only half consolidated in that gully but on Easy Gully and in the Cwm it was solid neve.

Went up Bristly Ridge, no need for tools but a nice wintry atmosphere and bits of old snow. Then down Y Gribin, crampons useful if following the path as it's covered in icy snow.

-0.5 at Idwal Cottage at 6pm but didn't feel all that cold up high (must have been just below freezing), except in the wind, but mostly it was pretty still, even up around Glyder Fach. A good day out, pity the clag came in around the summits in the afternoon.

All the Idwal ice routes are starting to form, only saw them from a distance but didn't look like any were in yet. Should be great by next weekend though if it stays cold.
 SamP88 23 Feb 2013
In reply to jim jones:
Is that a common issue with gully routes?
 mmd 23 Feb 2013
In reply to SamP88:

Gully climbing at easier grades. Kicking steps who would have thought it. Must be a new thing kicking steps. Jimmy Marshall would be impressed.

I mean come on chaps, kicking steps is the oldest form of winter climbing since man was born.
 John H Bull 23 Feb 2013
In reply to SamP88:
Pathetic. Mindless punters kicking steps in poor conditions just to bring it down to their level. Probably top-roped it first too.
 jim jones 23 Feb 2013
In reply to SamP88:
I'd be very surprised to find any snow gullies in Wales without steps, certainly at the start. Quite handy on Snowdon though for locating routes especially on Snowdon.
 Mr-Cowdrey 24 Feb 2013
In reply to Misha: we were the team on Clogwyn LH this afternoon. The ice was fat and bomber with excellent neve in the top pitches, with bomber frozen turf and a thin covering of rime too. Near perfect conditions. We had a look in idwal today too. The screen was nearly in condition but it needs more of a freeze as the ice was too wet and slushy. Devils kitchen had touched down but is thin and again needs more of a freeze. Idwal stream had good ice but is running with water behind alot of the ice though. Overall, conditions are good up high with hard consolidated snow and neve and good ice. Another week of cold and idwal will be back in.
 Joss 24 Feb 2013
Got out on Seargeants Gully yesterday, plenty of ice in variable condition. Water running behind it in most places.We then carried on to Cwm Glas and did the first few pitches of Sinister Gully, ice was excellent in the cwm but not so much of it on the third pitch so we moved along and did Parsley Fern left hand where there was a good ice pitch. Snow wasnt quite what youd call neve as there was a layer of frozen powder on the old snow, you couldnt always pull on your picks.. Ice and turf excellent though..
 geoff b 24 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil:
Just returned from Daddy Day on the Carneddau, gazing into the Black Ladders. The easy routes (Is & IIs) out of Cwm Caseg are in condition with good neve. The Ladders look to be in fine condition too. A team had just finished Western Gully ("in perfect nick"), whilst Eastern & Icefall Gully were fully formed,the icefalls below Cannon Buttress were very visible & the turf frozen solid even at 200m. Looks like a good bet at the mo'. Enjoy.
 Mr-Cowdrey 24 Feb 2013
In reply to torquil: http://chriscowdreyclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/clogwyn-du-food-theif.html

here's a write up of our day in the mountains yesterday around the Idwal and Clogwyn Du areas.
In reply to torquil: Cwm Lloer today. Not much in. Did y gully left and right forks. Right was complete, good neve but awkward in places where frozen turf was the only option. Left fork had some ice but was essentially all rock. Fun. Make the most of what's left!