UKC

Pure and simple, a talk about climbing conducted via the internet. No ranting, raving or conspiracy theories please!

What are the 10 best routes (trad or sport) in the uk?

Put your suggestions in with posts and then vote with the like button, discussion also welcome. Most votes by the end of next Sunday will be the top 10. Slightly unscientific but there you have it.

You can suggest as many routes as you want but please use one post per route.

Greasy

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

One of the best I've climbed;

The Pillar - Diabeg

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The Needle - Shelterstone

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Integrity on Sron na Ciche

Not the best climbing technically but the best situation and atmosphere.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Well, let's started with one guaranteed to make the top ten:

East Face Route (Original Route) (E1 5b)
Old Man of Hoy

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Mizen Star - Fairhead

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Silly Arete - My personal favourite route so far in the UK. Silly Arete (E3 5c)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

A Dream of White Horses (HVS 4c) - The best situation at the grade of HVS in the UK?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

White Slab, Cloggy.

In reply to james.slater:


if you ignore Bullroar or Centurion on the ben..

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

A suggestion rather than a rant:

Conducting the experiment in this manner will mean you end up with a meaningless list of 10 routes, as the number of votes for a given route will obviously be, in part at least, a function of how many times they have been climbed. So, to make it more meaningful I suggest you normalise routes' votes by their number of 'public logbook ticks' in the UKC databases. The highest 10 of those would then give you a more meaningful measure of the best quality routes.

An illustration of this using two routes already proposed: Dream of White Horses has 2191 logbook ticks whilst Hoy E face has only 366. I would be willing to hedge my bets - and I may be wrong - that many more people will come to 'like' Dream simply because many more have climbed it. But, will it acquire more than 6 (2191/366) times as many likes? - that is the interesting question.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Cuillin Ridge

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Old Man of Stoer

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Bowfell Buttress

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Grooved Arete

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Amphitheatre Buttress

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Doorpost

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Finale Groove

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
If you only climb one route in your life, then make sure it's Elegy at The Roaches. Not just the best in the UK, but the best anywhere.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Sorry, but you need to read the OP's instructions!

Voting is via the Like Button - so one route per post.

It's not possible to vote this way on multiple routes per post.......

In reply to Trangia:


Kilnsey or Tryfan?

Andy F

P.s. I'd go with the Kilnsey route.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Left Wall (E2 5c)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Superdirect - Dinas Mot

In reply to Trangia:


More like the biggest let down ever.

In reply to andy farnell:

Tryfan

In reply to Tom Last:


Isn't that what climbing is all about? It's so subjective. I love it and have taken loads of people up it over the decades, often their first multi pitch. Unfortunately it's become too popular - probably due to threads like this

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Why?

In reply to Trangia:

No doubt about it - I've probably been spoiled by relatively clean Cornish granite and forgotten what mountain routes are abouit. I can well imagine that if a climber was pushing that particular grade, or as a 1st route even, it'd feel pretty special. Nice situations certainly.

In reply to Sean Kelly:


Because they're there?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Eliminate A, Dow Crag

T.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Suicide Wall, Bosigran

T.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Eagle Front, Buttermere

T.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

f route, kipling, haste not-are very good

In reply to Sean Kelly:

I was thinking about my top 10 then asked a friend and he came up with a mostly very different 10. Was interested to see which routes are on everyones list. That's about it tbh!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Commando ridge, bosigran.

Stunning location, good rock and some decent exposure -what more could you want from a v diff?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

cenotaph corner

In reply to tjhare1:

I see what you mean and you're right weren't going to find the very best routes in the uk. What I was really interested in was what British climbers think are the best routes. Probably should have named the thread that in retrospect.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Sula (E2 5b)

In reply to Trangia:


Not even the best route on Tryfan!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Pull My Daisy (E2 5c)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Great Wall, Cloggy.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:




No way! it only has two good pitches. The rest of it is very mediocre climbing. Great route and experience though.

Suicide Wall at Crattcliffe.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Had threads like this before and fail. Single or multi pitch can you compare. Best routes - likely to be ones that are popular, of easy access and dont require much sense of adventure - or how else will they come out tops?

In reply to Steve Perry:



I preferred The Bug at Toiladh....both excellent though
Coronation st
Lucky strike
Jones' direct from lords rake
Outside edge
The moon
eroica
Mousetrap
Cenotaph corner
Suicide wall cratcliffe

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Hells Kitchen Hell's Kitchen (HVS 5a)

But won't get many likes as so few climbers visit one of the very best crags in the UK.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Coronation Street

In reply to Bulls Crack:


Not done it but on the list.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Sula, Mingulay

Regardless of the quality of this route, this won't get many votes due to its inaccessibility.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Some good suggestions here but ditto as to Paul in Sheffield!

In reply to Trangia:


It's a bit parochial, but I think the roaches has the best collection of routes of any crag anywhere, and Elegy is the best there. Flawless grit, just safe enough, peerless moves, etc etc.
Could have chosen Track of the Cat, Wings of Unreason, Apaloosa Sunset, Smear Test, Hunky Dory, just the very best routes anywhere. Probably.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Astral Stroll Astral Stroll (E1 5b)

In reply to Trangia:

ahh! But you got round that!

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:


I doubt any of these would feature in a gritstone top 10 - or ,with the exception of Elegy, even a Roaches top 10

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Darker Angel, Cadair Idris

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
This is almost impossible! Assume we're talking rock, not winter?

Right Wall, Dinas Cromlech, E5 6a. An iconic and historic route featuring sustained bold wall climbing on a devious line, with just enough rests and gear to make it feasible at the grade.

I suppose I could say Lord of the Flies, which is harder, scarier and probably better, but I haven't done it yet Or Left Wall for the sustained quality climbing and strong line. Or Resurrection, sustained but reasonably well geared, great climbing all the way and a benchmark at the grade. One thing is for sure, one of the Cromlech routes has to be in the top 10!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Darkinbad the Brightdayler, Pentire Head, E5 6a. An amazing voyage of discovery up one of the most impressive pieces of rock in the country. A chillingly bold 'dark and bad' start leads to better protected but harder climbing on lighter, friendlier rock, following weaknesses and cracks snaking around the face. A short and sharp second pitch completes this Pat Littlejohn classic of the South West. I don't know many that people who have done it but a few of them have said that this is possibly the best route in the country and I'm inclined to agree!

In reply to Steve Perry


Not even the best E2 at Diabaig!

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:




Massively overrated. Sandy, dirty, awkward and generally unpleasant choss. If it wasn't where it is it would barely warrant a star.

In reply to james.slater:


Maybe south of the border if you can ignore the mediocre rock

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Something at Gogarth, the epitome of adventure climbing... but what? The forearm melting difficulty of Positron on Main Cliff? The intimidating offwidth and imposing line of T Rex, or the friendlier but still serious adventure of A Dream of White Horses? The 'out there' feel of The Moon?

I'll opt for the dusty, chaotic and undeniably serious brilliance of Mousetrap in Mousetrap Zawn, E2 5b. Never desperate at the grade but always worrying, this route picks the path of most sanity in a crazy world of scrunched up strata of quartz layered with cheese and talcum powder.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Polished, awkward, famous but very overrated.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Any of the big routes on Pabbay and Mingulay, they're all amazing! I'd go for Sula, Dun Mingulay, E2 5b. A route of contrasts - a slabby and slightly bold first pitch followed by a well protected and exhilarating steep jugfest, all on perfect rock, in fact some of the best rock you will ever climb on (gritstone, eat your heart out!).

Edit - I see Jon has already mentioned it.

In reply to scott titt:
Something from Fair Head for sure but what? Too many perfect routes!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Prophecy of Drowning, Pabbay

In reply to Misha:
I thought the promised land was pretty amazing at Fairhead, as was Halloween and track of the cat

In reply to Duncan Campbell:
Or Hurricane Direct, Face Value, Salango...

In reply to tjhare1:

There won't be enough votes to be statistically meaningful anyway.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Not in my top 500!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Astral Stroll

To Paul in Sheffield - you are being swayed by proximity. It's doubtful that any Peak route will make a national top 10.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

True, though that's a whole new kettle of fish!

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


If you have done 500 UK routes that you found better than Prophecy of Drowning, then you are truly blessed.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

not even the best route on the lower tier!

In reply to JJL:



Are you kidding? It's all the way over in the west!

In reply to rocksol:


I confined myself to routes I've done, but when I finally link the moves (this winter or maybe never...) the best route is obviously Inertia Reel Traverse

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

"The best routes in Derbyshire are all in Staffordshire"

In reply to Robert Durran:

I wondered how long it would take for one of you Northerners to dismiss everything not in Scotland as crap.

In reply to ianstevens:

Nobody is saying that.

In reply to summo:

Another vote for Centurion and the Needle.

Bludger's and Vulcan Wall are also up there,

M

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Cookie Crumbles (VD) Fairy Cave Quarry - vote it up, vote it up. Esoterica meets social media and gate crashes the party?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Centurion tops it for me.

Iain

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

No mentions for Ardverikie Wall?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

or Direct on Dinas Mot?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Or Valkyrie at the Roaches?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

or at the "brief but wonderful" end of things, how about Heaven Crack?

In reply to Robert Durran:


I've only done two others; Northumberland Wall and Dire Wall and they are both fantastic routes. I just liked The Pillar that bit more and it stands out as one of my favourite routes, maybe because I put off doing it for so long until certain I'd not blow it. I'm guessing you're going to say Northumberland Wall?

In reply to Steve Perry:

Yes! Not the best route in Britain. Just the best E2 at Diabaig.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Ooh! Sounds like a recommendation to me. Kafoozalem at Bosi my personal favourite.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:


So what made you say Prophecy wasn't in the top 500 if you've not even done it? Or have I misunderstood you?

In reply to Robert Durran:

Yet nowhere near as good as Voyage of Faith, Mingulay

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I think it is valid to judge based on the "experience", or on the actual climbing. Which matters more depends on what you are in it for really.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Squareface would be high on my list.

In reply to Hugh Cottam:


Except that Les Voyageurs is even better........A stronger line and the exposure on the top pitch makes Voyage seem a bit tame.

In reply to Robert Durran:


He was talking about suicide wall!

In reply to Pursued by a bear:


Suicide Wall at Cratcliffe is better! It would be my leading candidate for the best route on gritstone at least, but I'm not sure any one-pitch grit route would make it onto a list of top routes in the UK.

In reply to FreshSlate:


Ah, that makes sense! The shoddy Bosigran one I presume.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Suicide Wall at Bosi was the most rambling, contrived, non-sustained, unpleasant generally rubbish 3* route I've ever done.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Something tells me the best route in Britain from this thread won't be either, or anything else in Scotland. I'm guessing a Gogarth HVS.

In reply to Owen W-G:


I admit got to the nasty, awkward polished crux and thought sod this I can't be arsed risking a sprained ankle on this bollocks and traversed off to the left.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Centurion.

In reply to Nath93:


Except that Torro is better. And King Kong. And Titan's Wall. And probably other routes there too hard for me.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Haven't done Torro, or any that you mention. But when we did Centurion this year we had all of Carn Dearg Buttress to ourselves and the weather was superb. Best HVS I've ever climbed, not that I've climbed many right enough but that second pitch up the big corner is outstanding!

Did Minus 1 Direct on a similar day this September and had that to ourselves too, first two proper pitches are poor but superb clean rock all the way to the top after that. If I'd climbed more E1 mountain routes I'd go as far as saying its up there with the best!

I sometimes wonder if people actually go climbing on the Ben in summer anymore? Only ever met people scrambling on the big ridges!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
The only thing I can see standing up to its equivalents on the world stage is Rainshadow at Malham. I know grit is considered unique etc etc but really is it as good as font for bouldering, Bishop for highballs or the rest of the UK for 'proper/normal' routes? I mean Suicide Wall at Cratcliff is great but atypical grit and not as good as Cemetry Gates on the Cromlech. Elegy is pretty unique for the UK (if we ignore the Mourne mountains!) so maybe a contender.

We rate the multi pitch trad routes for their scale and grandeur but these are dwarfed by stuff abroad. We *possibly* have better (better developed at least) sea cliffs than elsewhere and the Shelterstone routes look awesome so maybe them?

In reply to Tyler:

I've done a few routes abroad which are probably considered world class. They are no longer than some of our mountain routes (size isn't everything anyway), and I reckon we have routes where the whole package holds it own with them.


The best sea cliff routes we have (Mingulay and Pabbay) hold their own with anything in the mountains or with anything I've done abroad, so I reckon they are world class too.

In reply to Tyler:

What we do have is a wide range of rock types acted upon by a complex cycle of weathering processes including glaciation/freeze-thaw that has left us with an incredibly diverse series of climbs that can be naturally protected. Henry Barber made some comment about them being relatively small but gems?

In reply to Tyler:


It's far, far better than Cemetery Gates! My over riding memory is often damp, loose, jug pulling. The Corner is way better.

Surprised neither Moonraker or Dreadnought have been suggested yet.

In reply


I've heard people knock it, but I'd put Minus 1 Direct right up there with E1's like Needle, White Slab (yes, there are great routes south of the border) and Grooving High.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


Try doing CG in the dry then, you light prefer it. Don't remember it being loose but it's been a while. I remember SW being just jug pulling, that's why it's so good

In reply to Robert Durran:


I've done far fewer multi-pitch routes abroad than I have here but I don't think my top five would include any UK routes although I've never climbed on the Shelterstone or the Ben in summer

In reply to Tyler:


I think I've done CG 5 times in various conditions. It always seems to be seeping and have a couple of wobbly holds.

Suicide wall is Jamtastic. That's way it is so good!

In reply to Tyler:


I've not been to the Ben is summer, to my lasting shame, but Shelterstone is unbelievably good. Go there you will not be disappointed.

That said Mr Durran has never climbed on Scafell and I bet he has been climbing for longer than I've been alive. No excuses there.

Saxon and Centaur both deserve places on this list.

In reply to Robert Durran:

That's good to know, the Needle is on next summers tick list!

I'm ashamed to say that is true, but it is on the list and, along with the Cumbrian (if I'm ever going well enough) is the only thing that would really override the strain of heading south to the Lakes for me. Anyway, it's nice to have something to look forward to in my old age......

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

threads like this are never going to give 'true answers' - especially since most of the recommended routes are VD - E2

It also depends what you want from a route - as to what makes it the 'best'
I don't think any Peak HVS could be comparable to say, a big HVS on Kilt Rock, or up in Scotland. But is it better, if you can only climb it 5 days a year?

I have not done, what I assume would be the best ten routes in the UK, but they are surely stuff like the below: (amazing, blank lines, that require years of dedication to complete)

As a quick estimate of contenders

Rainshadow
Obsession
Right Wall
Gaia
Indian Face
Quarryman
Something hard in the Leap/Stennis/ Careys at Pembroke?
Requiem
Sron Ulladale
Masters Edge
Strawberries

etc

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

At the risk of getting shot down by the anti grit brigade:

Great North Road, Millstone

Who cares it's a single pitch route in a quarry, it's pure joy!

In reply to Robert Durran:


I was agreeing with your suggestion that Suicide Wall was "polished and over-rated" i.e. not in my top 500. I didn't see your Prophecy post so assumed you were just providing a better alternative.

In reply to ashtond6:


I like grit and really enjoy climbing in the peak but anyone picking a gritstone route as the best in the UK needs to get out more.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Looking through the list and I can't remember seeing a route in pembroke. So I will go for my favourite so far down there.
Riders on the Storm (HVS 5a)
Riders on the storm. Hvs brilliance.
Luke.

In reply to Steve Perry:

anyone picking a gritstone route as the best in the UK needs to get out more.


Really? Did you not read 'There are no better climbs in the world...'? It could well be true.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

If Dalriada (E7 6b) hasn't been mentioned then by the gods it should have been!

In reply to Steve Perry:


I'm not so sure about that. In their way there aren't too many UK climbs to match Archangel or White Wand.

jcm

In reply to luke glaister:





Jesus Christ. Now there's one that really isn't in the top 500. I doubt it's in the top 500 routes in Pembroke.

jcm

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Tophet Wall

In reply to ashtond6:


Last time I checked Skye was in Scotland. And why can you only climb on Kilt Rock 5 days a year?

In reply to Michael Gordon:


I assume what is meant is that you're only there for a week's holiday. It certainly would be a misguided comment if the weather is being referenced. Windy it might be, but Trotternish is remarkably dry by Skye standards.

In reply to BnB:

I don't understand why availability should be a measure of quality

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Nor length...

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


This was inevitably going to descend into the grit debate. Elegy and Archangel would go down as two of my favourite routes, but to say that they're "better" than something on Dun Mingulay is rather ridiculous.

Is a tiny sip of the most exquisite malt whisky from your own chipped tumbler "better" than a whole bottle of superb wine over dinner in a Michelin starred restaurant? Maybe...

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Hi Jon, I don't drink alcohol any more, but back when I did, the answer is a resounding yes, so Elegy and Archangel and White Wand work for me. This has been a great thread which takes me back to school days when the argument was over whether Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page or Ritchie Blackmore was the 'best' guitarist. No answer to that, and no answer to this. Except, as any fule kno, Elegy is the best route in the UK...

In reply to paul_in_cumbria: Having done all the climbs in the UK, I have to say that you're all wrong...the best one is The Wizard of Oz at Berry Head!

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

The best route is clearly the one that most people have had most fun on....so Tody's Wall? Always good for a laugh

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Just for the stuff of 4 star quality yet to be done,Scotland absolutely has the best routes.Especially the coastal stuff.Pity the weather is so poor.
If we are talking quality per foot,then there's one of mine,right end of Stanage.....

In reply to luke glaister:

"I like grit and really enjoy climbing in the peak but anyone picking a gritstone route as the best in the UK needs to get out more"

I've climbed fairly widely throughout the UK and on most rock types and would still have a couple of grit routes in my top 10. Short they may be, but the intensity they generate and the sense of flow you can get from climbing them put them up there with the best, in my opinion (would put Front Line in Pembroke in my top 10 too, for the same reasons).
As someone said higher up "size isn't everything".

In reply to Iain Thow:

I love gritstone to. It flows so perfect and feels that's how climbing should feel. But I also love the sea cliffs of pembroke. Steep. Good gear. Loose top outs to add to the experience. Front line is very good. So to are .
The arrow.
Rock idol.
Army dreamers. Bit polished but still great.
Herod.
Cool for cats.
And my favourite. Clean hand blue's band.
God I love pembroke. Roll on the weekend. ..
Luke.

In reply to luke glaister:



Stoney Middleton.


Next to a great route.


You can't polish a turd, but by god we've had a good go.

I love Pembroke too, but my favourites would be Strait Gate, Silver Shadow, Pleasure Dome, Star Wars.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Haha. Yeh. That's the beauty of climbing. The best routes are the ones that mean something to you. Hence clean hand blues band was my first at the grade. The rest on your list are in my thoughts but not good enough to be safe on them at the moment. One day. Hopefully. .. lol.
Luke

In reply to luke glaister:


My experience on Clean Hand was failing on something earlier in the day and getting very tired in the process. In fact, I think it was Mysteries where I spent at least an hour hanging on, unable to do the only hard move on the route, climbing up and down a few times, and then scrambling out up the grass at the back of the zawn - not my finest hour. So later I went off with the intention of doing a classic, accessible "E1" for an easy life, and found it a real struggle and totally unpleasant.

I have since done Mysteries, but I still found the crux move a bit of a nightmare.

Got to have a go on Silver Shadow though! No hard bits particularly (although the intial permadamp corner is a bit pokey), just very sustained and impressive. Best E2 in Pembs I think. Although I might previously have said Keelhaul before I went on that slab in damp conditions, and so realised why most people hate it.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Pluto HVS 5a

Raven crag ,lakes

3 great varied pitches

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=6679

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I had more fun on Temple of Doom than everyone else put together on every other route, the fact that it is so rarely dry and so few people have done it also adding to the enjoyment and satisfaction. So Temple of Doom has to be the best route in the country.

Temple of Doom does, incidentally, also happen to be a contender for the best route I've ever done.

In reply to paul mitchell:


You are of course right, except the myth that it's always raining. But that's great if it means rarely having to share the best crags in the country with anybody else.

In reply to oaktree:

Yes, a great climb. Must be one of the best low level Lakes routes?

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Did anyone put down The Magic Crack? That third pitch is immaculate finger jamming with excellent gear all the way, total joy to climb. Perhaps not as impressive a setting as some bigger mountain routes or sea cliffs but who needs it when you've got actual 3* quality climbing?

In reply to Michael Gordon:


I think that's what you call damming with faint praise!

In reply to Tyler:

Yes maybe!

In reply to ashtond6:

Stfu and vote for left wall.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Exposure Explosion

In reply to sfletch:


Right wall looks better than left! Great North Road pahaha

In reply to Greasy Prusiks: has The Axe at cloggy been mentioned yet?? Fooking amazing exposure and climbing that is sustained, technical and alarming!

Remembered it today at work and think it would rate in my top 10 pitches climbed.

In reply to ashtond6:
Shot Yer Bolt (6b+)? Horseshoe needs a mention.

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Ogmore, one of the best crags in ............. South Wales!!!

In reply to sfletch:

The Mall (VS 4c) surely?

In reply to ashtond6:

Doesn't really compare to Boomerang (S 4a). The Mall is more like 12th or 13th in the UK, never top 10.

In reply to oaktree:
A traverse route should be in the top 10 as we have a fair few brilliant ones in the UK but I'd vote for Dream of white horses or better still Astrall Stroll over Pluto. It doesn't even begin to compare!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I agree with ashtond6 that the route selection is inevitably biased towards the easier routes.

With that in mind I'd suggest: Flying Buttress Direct

In reply to Misha:

Gob?

In reply to Michael Gordon:

I'll nominate Silver Shadow as best Pembroke E2 and it's probably had the fewest ascents of the 3* ones.

No grit routes could surely be considered best in Britain. Even uber classics like London Wall, Reg Street, Archangel, FBD, Elergy can't compare with what our seacliffs offer.

Welsh ones would beat all English contenders surely?
Never climbed N of the border but sure Scotland can trump any English route of the grade too.

HVS
DOWH

E1
Cenotaph Corner
Strait Gate

E2
Silver Shadow
Left Wall

E3
Star Gate

E4
Star Wars

E5
Right Wall

In reply to sfletch:


But of course! Amazing no-one else has mentioned it yet

In reply to Owen W-G: It's a funny thing, depending on perspective. I live in Norway, and if I were to visit the UK to climb no way would I go to N Wales , or the Lakes, to climb. Due to similarities in geology, the stuff in N Wales just isn't special. They're good routes, but not exceptional.

But I would go to gritstone because I can't get it here, the moves are good and the lines, though short are clean and elegant.

Good doesn't just mean long

In reply to Bulls Crack:


What a horrible place that is. I've been in there just once, on a hot summer's day, but it was just so depressing. Utterly charmless and completely at odds with the beautiful surrounding landscape. The climbing in the most popular area is rather like a rather mundane outdoor climbing wall, ending at big bolts below a shitty, sloping scree-covered terrace. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

In reply to wbo:


No but... you wouldn't go to Cloggy and just wallow in the atmosphere of the place, one moment benign, the next dark and threatening?

Mick

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Creag Ddu Wall
A severe on an E3 line and the sun always shines on it.

Kipling Groove;
So far and away the best of its grade in the UK and I am only ever an occasional visitor to the Lakes.

The Rasp
I love grit, and this is the real deal.

Strapadictomy
A perfect route on the best rock. Beautiful to look at, find the symmetries in it and it is easy, otherwise nails.

Lord of the Flies
The high water mark of the old days, the route Brown glanced over to while on the Corner.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Thanks for the support, it is very much Eyam's answer to Buoux.

In reply to Jon Stewart: I love it when a easer route catches me out. Lol. Mostly its a vs/hvs...
I've never considered silver shadow but have had a look at it just and it looks epic. And now on the tick list. So many routes still to find and aspire to. Great thread by the way greasy.
Luke.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I assumed it was irony and dismissed it straight away...

In reply to robate:

I think I'd agree with Kipling Groove (particularly if combined with North-West Arete). Creagh Ddu Wall is good, but not *that* good. There are loads at Tremadoc that are better. Just about everything on the Vector Buttress, surely, is pure gold, on the highest quality rock and with really interesting moves all the way (not an inch of crap). More interesting technically than most gritstone, imho.

Having said that, The Rasp might just get in, because it's just so extraordinary, intense and outrageous.

At E1, what about Jack the Ripper on Stac Pollaidh (haven't done it, but everyone raves about it. And what a setting!)?

In reply to robate:

And what about Gob (HVS) on Carnmore? (Haven't done that either, but I've often heard that it has few equals in GB). In fact whole of Carnmore seems to have been overlooked. Isn't Fionn Buttress one of the best VSs on this planet?

In reply to Mick Ward: No, probably not. But that doesn't mean that it isn't benign/threatening, nor does it mean the climbing is not good, but that I wouldn't travel to it as it's not so dissimilar to what I can get semi locally. Ditto the Cromlech. Great crag, but Dirdal is pretty similar but much, much larger.

I'm answering the wrong question. I would likely travel to Pembroke though

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Vector - surely a must?
Rock Idol
Deep Space
Minus One Direct
Centurion
Great North Road
Great - Bow Slab combination
Curving Crack
Octo
The Yellow Slab or Centaur

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Gob is probably the best HVS in the country (with DOWH a close second) and should be in everyone's top 10.

Dragon is brilliant too.

In reply to Goucho:



What about Moonraker and Suicide Wall?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


I didn't think Moonraker was all that special - ducks head and gets coat

And I wouldn't put any of the Suicide Wall routes in my top 20 either.

In reply to Goucho:


Dreadnought is probably better and it does the best bit of Moonraker.


I'd be interested to hear your top 20.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:



If you look at my list of favourite routes on my profile, you'll see the kind of routes likely to get in it?

In reply to Goucho:

The best route in the UK is Heavy Duty at New Mills Torrs, or maybe it's Jean Jeanie, or Daytona Wall or Cracked Actor or Freebird or North West Passage or The Original Route on St Johns Head, perhaps you get my drift. What I'm saying is it's YOUR route, all YOUR routes are the best because they give you the biggest buzz. Now stop pissing about repeating routes and do some first ascents, then you get to understand what Joe Brown knew, and Gary Gibson and all the rest of our great pioneers.

In reply to Al Evans:

You were lucky to have lived in such a pioneering time

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

My nomination is Shackle Route on Buachaille Etive Mor, first time I'd been on a hill never mind rock! Over 40years ago and lit a passion that's stayed with me.


Bludgers/Revelation has got to be on the list.

In reply to Al Evans:


Can be difficult in the UK for us punters.... even Docky Dam has been climbed out!

In reply to Al Evans:

What the best route is, is always a subjective personal opinion Al - including first ascents.

In reply to Al Evans:

Al, if you're doing new routes which are classics, that may well be the case. I can certainly understand Joe Brown getting a buge buzz out of many of his first ascents which are undying classics. Again, many of your routes are classics. Gary? Perhaps a third. (This is in no way to damn with faint praise. I have a huge respect for Gary and what he's done.) Jon (who's also done loads of FAs, many of them classics) has said on here that he doubts any of them would feature on his preferred list (if I'm not misrepresenting him!) Finally, from the sublime (Brown) to the ridiculous (me!), out of 150-200 FAs, only one really mattered (because of deeply personal reasons). Many of them get tons of ascents, which is nice, but the thrill of just seconding Jim Erickson up Cemetary Gates 40 years ago, effortlessly eclipsed FA joy now.

I think what floats your boat is very subjective. For me, in the mid 70s, doing Brown routes in Wales was a big, big deal because usually I didn't know anyone else who'd done 'em and the weight of myth was almost overpowering. It was like going up against God!

Mick

In reply to Mark Bannan:

Oh, and I forgot Eagle Ridge,

M

In reply to Mick Ward:



How true.

The psychology of many routes created by both the era, myth and first ascentionist, was often the hardest part of the route.

I remember sitting at the bottom of the Cromlech and chatting to Dave Roberts and Paul Williams after they'd made the 5th ascent of Right Wall, and Dave saying "if you forget about the psychology and reputation, it's not that hard - in fact Resurection is harder".

Of course that's easier said than done, and no, Resurection isn't harder

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Big John, St John's Head

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Jack the Ripper has one excellent pitch but that's all and IMO is overall a long way off some of the big Scottish E1s such as Yo-Yo, Unicorn, Big Top, Needle, Torro etc.

Gob on the other hand is fantastic at low HVS (I suggested it earlier).

In reply to wbo:

If you enjoy the grit head up north to the Torridonian Sandstone - similar but better!

In reply to Al Evans:

The most satisfying (FAs) and the best routes for pure quality are often not the same thing...

In reply to JimR:

Agreed, the main pitch of Shackle Route is very good, if not necessarily in the same league as some of the harder Coe stuff.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth


Not even in the top ten E1's in Scotland. There are even better Welsh E1's.

In reply to Robert Durran:

>> Jack The Ripper


It's a funny one. The setting is majestic, and climbing that style of sandstone to a perfect summit is pretty unique in the UK. That said, it is a scramble, an easy pitch and then a grit-HVS-style crack, which doesn't sound to me like the best route in the UK to me either.

But what about those routes on the big wall round the corner, Expecting to Fly (E4 6a)Mid Flight Crisis (E4 6a) - now they look like some of the best routes in the country.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


I've done most (!) of Expecting....... It's very good but would get nowhere near my top ten Scottish mountain routes I've done.

In reply to Robert Durran:



OK, fine. I was simply throwing it into the pot because I'd heard exceptionally good things about it.

For me, just about the greatest, highest quality route I've ever done is Vector. Amazing varied climbing, technically absorbing every inch of the way from the moment you leave the ground until the very top. Weaver is also very good but perhaps, being more direct, lacks that sense of a crazy unfolding story.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


My memory of Vector is of a route past its sell by date with polish and caked chalk more than thirty years ago!

In reply to Robert Durran:

Well, I've heard that. Of course, I remember seeing it again in the 1990s and it was absolutely caked with chalk. The big problem being, with it under all those overhangs, that nothing gets naturally washed off. I'm assuming that it's been cleaned up recently because people are starting to say very good things about it again. Eg, the v last two entries in UKC logbooks just a few weeks ago:

'what an awesome route, not only a great position, but also superb climbing throughout'

'A fantastic route from start to finish, could feel the weight of history on my shoulders stepping onto the ochre slab! ( getting to which was harder than I thought)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Track of the Cat at Fair Head has been mentioned above a good few times and I agree. Seems most people that have climbed it regard it as one of their best. 45 meters of sustained technical wall/crack climbing with solid gear and rock in a fine situation. Its a masterpiece!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Preposterous Tales (E2 5b)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

A Few Dollars More (E3 5c)

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The Axe (E4 6a)

In reply to Robert Durran:


To each their own; I really enjoyed it.

And if you're arguing that anything that's polished, awkward or famous should be removed from consideration then this is going to be a short list of obscure climbs.

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

For me, Christmas Curry is one of the truly great climbs. It was one of my first in Wales - maybe the first - and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it is my last.

Climbing is absurd, but it always feels wonderful to begin by thrutching up chimneys in the dank and dark undergrowth, then moving upwards towards ever cleaner, more positive and exposed climbing until any of the several possible finishes on the clean, open top wall; with the jackdaws cawing and the peewits calling over the Morfa...

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

That's exactly what I was thinking as everyones favourite routes depend on conditions, partners, circumstances, what routes you have climbed, and a dozen other factors. Most posters have suggested only one which really limits the choice. What essentially counts though is your own personal list often ascribed to on the UKC profiles. And as we climb even more routes so that choice obviously changes.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Yep, I reckon Kipling Groove is supernaturally good; probably the best route of any grade in Britain. Of course I am reluctant to possibly disagree with you about Trem, because Vector Buttress is just great but the thing is that CDW is severe and very few low grade routes can stand against higher grade ones because of the lines and position and what have you. I've not been on Stac Pollaidh, to my shame. One of my day dreams is to go onto Church Door Buttress on Bidean nam Bian, as I think that must be awesome.

In reply to robate:

If you think Kipling Groove is anywhere near being the best route in Britain, you definitely need to go to places like Church Door Buttress!

In reply to Al Evans:


I have no delusions that my routes are the best - and definitely not as good as yours!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Well your deadline has well passed, so what is the result of your "unscientific" survey!? Not an easy task for you as so many failed to follow your rules about one post per route, but if you can wade through the multiple suggestions, I'd be interested to see your "Top 10"!

Great thread though, with some interesting discussion.

In reply to Trangia:

I'll have a look through on my next break Trangia. Stand by with the drum roll...

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Late entry!

I think this can only be based on your best, or at least most memorable, experience of a UK route. That's really tough but, probably...

Eroica

So foreboding and dark from below but it all just flowed and I surprised myself by doing it free, fairly easily. Great day, great time in my life, great experience from the bristletails running up our arms on the first moves, the absurd undercut spacewalking traverse, the little fingery bit that broke the 6a barrier, the fine finishing corner that led back into the sun, Cornwall, in summer, in love.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Ok here we go these are the 10 routes that got the most votes...

1. A Dream Of White Horses

2. The Cuillin Ridge

3. Great Wall at Cloggy

4. East Face Route on the Old Man Of Hoy
4. Integrity on Sron na Ciche

5. Silly Arête
5. Door Post
5. Eliminate A at Dow Crag

6. Left Wall
6. The Needle at Shelterstone

So there you have it a proven and indisputable top 10. Now if anyone wants to join me this weekend for the official plaque-mounting ceremony down at dream then feel free.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

That is actually a brilliant varied list of top routes. And at pretty much every grade covered from v-diff to E4. Nice one!

In reply to Michael Gordon:

But rather amazingly no mention, as far as I can skim the thread, of Shibboleth for multi pitch.

Plague of Blazes for single pitch is a personal favourite.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I dispute most of them.


Oh God I wish that heap of rubble would hurry up and collapse into the zawn so that people would stop going on like sheep about it ad nauseam as if its exceptional or something. Some people need to get out more.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The problem is that it's not really the best routes but the most popular/most climbed routes that people have enjoyed the most. I think it's a reflection more on the quality of the experience rather than the technical quality of the route - certainly not quite the same thing. Probably because of the setting, scale etc. Integrity and Door Post being good examples. By no stretch of the imagination are they particularly good routes technically, but superb in every other respect. The route on the list between them, Silly Arete (that I haven't done), is obviously way better and more interesting technically. i.e if you put the routes 'on the ground' at the bottom of your garden, and had to judge them objectively.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I have to take issue with this. Yes, obviously Silly Arete is technically harder than Integrity, but that does not necessarily mean that it is more interesting; a severe leader might well find Integrity as technically interesting as an E3 leader finds Silly Arete.

And the fact is that neither route is at the bottom of anyone's garden; I've been in many back gardens which are much nicer than dank, muddy, uninspiringly roadside Tremadoc, whereas Integrity is on peerless, perfect Gabbro in one of the finest mountain settings in these isles. There is no contest; Integrity is a worthy contender while Silly Arete is a joke (there are way better E3's which are also in stunning settings).

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Thanks for setting this up. It's been a very interesting thread.

"Best" is subjective, but as has been said it's a good cross section through the grades, and obviously enjoyed by those that climbed them.

I doff my hat to you Sir

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

There's better routes at Tremadoc than Silly Arete! Both Void and Vulcan stands head and shoulders above.

In reply to Robert Durran:

One sad thing about Tremadoc, of course, is that it became very vegetated. It was very clean when I first started climbing there. And in a rather beautiful setting, despite proximity of road. Yes, nothing like Sron na Ciche, I agree ... I suppose the crux of Integrity is quite good. It takes a little bit of working out. You get the (very good) gear on, fiddle about, have a look, come down for a rest and then go for it. Once you're out in the open on the slab it's fairly ordinary but in a mind-boggling position. IIRC the crack-groove gets more interesting/ very good higher up, with one or two interesting moves. I remember we finished (Mike Lates leading) up a very good short VS pitch directly above the final terrace - which looked like a very unattractive loose scramble off to the left.

And then, of course, there's something about the light in Skye, which is stunning.

The gabbro is arguably the best climbing rock in Britain ... except perhaps the dolerite of Tremadoc, which is as good in its own way .. which is saying something !!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

>........ if you put the routes 'on the ground' at the bottom of your garden, and had to judge them objectively.

But if that's your idea of "objectively" then you may as well take it to its logical conclusion by exactly replicating the technicality on indoors plastic and judging the quality of the route on that basis. Most people would regard this as absurd; the texture of the rock and the aesthetics of the suroundings are as much a part of a route as the actual moves.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The Cullin Ridge?

It's not even the best ridge in the Cullins.....etc etc

In reply to Removed User:

Shibboleth is brilliant of course. I wouldn't necessarily put it above some other routes but then I didn't do the True Finish.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Well, OK, but the technical climbing remains a very important part of it. (And of course any hypothetical imitation would exactly reproduce the rock, including its texture) But I also agree that it's very hard to unravel and separate the different ingredients. If I had to list my top ten, highest quality climbing experiences they would probably be something like: 1. the round of Coire Lagan, starting up Sron na Ciche, over Sgurr Sgumain and Alastair, then Thearlich, Collie's Ledge and the mindboggling An Stac ridge leading to the In Pin. 2. Clach Glas-Blaven Traverse 3. Vector, 4. Cenotaph Corner. 5. Kipling Groove. 6. Cemetery Gates 7. West Flank Route, Arran 8. Debauchery, High Tor, 9. Five Finger Exercise, Cratcliffe 10. Hate at Bowles (or quite a few things at High Rocks, frankly). I.e. an almost ridiculously diverse bunch of incomparable routes.

Ooh, and that misses out all the Alps too! My very last proper climb, with Freda, soloing up the south ridge of Bispen in the Romsdal area of Norway in 2009, was a pretty special occasion too.

In reply to Robert Durran:


If you put Cloggy or Pentire at the bottom of your garden you might be a bit short of sunshine!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

It's always puzzled me why the parallel Trophy Crack doesn't get mote highly rated. Just as good as Integrity, it only got uprated to *** in the most recent guidebook. I'd have it right up there in the top 5 E1's in Scotland along with Dragon, Groovin' High, Needle and Big Top - ie much better than stuff like Jack the Ripper or YoYo

And then there is the phenomenal collection of six *** E3's on the Vulcan wall area of East Buttress. Spock, Uhuru, Creag Dubh Grooves and Enigma* would be contenders for inclusion in the ten best routes I've done of any grade...........yet you can often have the place to yourself (which only makes the experience even better!).

*Actually Enigma is still only given **, but that is ridiculous - the stunning headwall crack might be the best pitch on the island if you prefer steepness to Uhuru's technicality.........waiting years to catch it dry only made finally doing it even better.

Oh, and of course Vulcan Wall itself is possibly the best HVS in the country.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

On the plus side, you'd be quite exceptionally well off, because you'd have a rather huge 'garden' ...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Yes, of course, a truly great route should be brilliant in every respect not least in technicality or the aesthetics of the rock (which is why no route on the nondescript quartzite of Gogarth should reasonably be mentioned in a thread like this).


Ooh yes, Arran. Has anyone mentioned South Ridge Direct yet? Best VS in the country?

In reply to Dave Garnett:


Not if your house was at the top of the cliff.

In reply to Robert Durran:



I've always heard that about Vulcan Wall (again, I remember Mike's comments); and I remember looking up the start of Trophy Crack and being struck by just how immaculate and enticing it was.

In reply to Robert Durran:



Yes, very good, and wonderfully long (by GB standards), but rather uneven. Best pitch was about 2/3 up with a superb traverse right out of a steep groove on mushroom-type holds in a fantastic position. But then people say that VS on Carnmore is fantastic.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Nice list, especially as I've done them all.

In reply to Robert Durran:

South Ridge Direct on Cir Mhor ...awesome situation and route.

In reply to Trangia:

Thank you Trangia, doff returned.

It has been an interesting discussion, I've enjoyed following it. Obviously it's not the definitive top 10 (I doubt that's actually possible) but it seems a very rounded collection of days out that a fair few of us have been lucky enough to enjoy.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
>The problem is that it's not really the best routes but the most popular/most climbed routes that people have enjoyed the most. I think it's a reflection more on the quality of the experience rather than the technical quality of the route - certainly not quite the same thing. Probably because of the setting, scale etc.<

I think that this point is so important. I did Dream of White Horses when it still had a big reputation as a challenging HVS. The approach was feisty with some big waves and it really felt serious. When the climbing unfolded as a a beautiful series of holds in such improbable territory it became magical. The discovery of a small plastic White Horse on one of the small ledges of the final pitch added to the myth. There is no doubt in my mind that this was a special climb for me and thus I would nominate it as one of the best.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Andy Parkin once told me (admittedly a very long time ago!) that, for sheer quality, it was the best route he'd ever done. With that encomium, I've always yearned for it.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

I did just three routes on Cir Mhor in one three-day trip. Plus the classic ridge walk. All 3 stars plus (i.e. about 4 stars plus at e.g. Stanage) Granite climbing at its very best, better than anything I climbed in the Alps, including Bregaglia.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You've sold it to me! Always fancied going there. I seem to remember a lovely bit about it at the end of Janet Adam Smith's 'Mountain Holidays'.

Mick

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Talking of Arran, Tidemark on Cioch na-h-oighe must have the best positioned severe pitch in the UK.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I thought trophy crack hvs 5b and can't remember a move.

yo yo is still one of the best e1 I've ever climbed.

the loose rock has gone from dream.

kipling groove is OK I did it linked with another route lower down which was desperate and so kipling was an anti climax. the crack next door was pretty awesome though.

Good thread!

In reply to alasdair19:


Fair enough, but we're discussing quality, not grades. If it's HVS, it's one of the very best then!


I don't remember much about YoYo except that it seemed awkward and overrated, whereas Trophy Crack was a glorious orgy of movement from start to finish. Each to their own I suppose.


I wasn't complaining about loose rock, but rather the nondescript nature of Gogarth quartzite in general; as a climbing material it just isn't anything special move for move or aesthetically compared with many rock types.

In reply to Robert Durran:


Great to hear someone being a little bit rude about that peculiar bisquity rock that is so much less attractive to climb on, imho, than the best rhyolite, dolerite, granite or gabbro (or even, gritstone, or even sandstone, he says quickly )

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Glad someone agrees! Quartzite does vary a lot though. I thought the stuff in the Morocco Anti-Atlas was a similarly uninspiring climbing medium to the Gogarth stuff, whereas the Beinn Eighe variety can, at its best, be exquisite in every way.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Same with gneiss. Some of it is superb. Very varied. Too varied to generalise, which is why I didn't mention limestone, which goes all the way from vary loose crap to good natural weathered/pockety with surprising friction (though it all suffers from getting very easily and badly polished, and then it's really grim to climb on.)

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:


Yes, some of the worst stuff I've climbed on is Alpine Gneiss, but the sea washed Lewisian of the Hebrides is the finest climbing rock on the planet.

In reply to Mick Ward:

if you go via Sheffield we could make it a family holiday! still got a few things to do there.

In reply to alasdair19:

Hi Al, hope you guys are all well. That sounds good. And I could have a quick bimble on Stanage < sniff, nostalgia > en route.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:


Hmmm. It's OK I guess and definitely a beautiful place but not sure it would make my top 10 most memorable routes, apart from the Rosetta Stone bit right at the top. It is certainly fine rock though.

West Flank Route is more memorable (and I know is one of Gordon's favourites).

In reply to Robert Durran:



Nowhere near it. Great route, great setting, but three good pitches, one disproportionally hard compared to the rest of the route, interspersed with hundreds of metres of diff can't possibly make it a contender even.

In reply to Tom Last:

But every pitch is exquisite at it's grade...........even the diff.

In reply to Robert Durran:

I thought the unlikely traverse pitch (the last technical pitch) was the best, but the corner too was superb - I have a picture of me on that and it almost looks like something in Yosemite.

I must admit the route did made me want to go back.

You might know the answer to this Robert. As you traverse across the slabs heading for the last technical pic (mentioned above) below and across the gully on the left is a large buttress with an absolutely incredible looking splitter crack running up the headwall. No other hand/footholds by the look of it - the real deal. Hard looking thing, any ideas what that might be?

In reply to Tom Last:

I've done a fair few routes on cir mhor and it sounds as though the splitter crack you are describing is the crack on the second pitch of Arctic Way VS 4c. It's a lot more straightforward than it looks.

We had a magic 2 days camped directly below the crag working our way through all the routes within our grade. Although South Ridge Direct was good i felt there were much better climbs on the crag such as West Flank Route and Anvil.

In reply to alasdair19:


Agreed. Right up there with Big Top and Needle IMO

In reply to shantaram:

Hey Shantaram.

That's great, thanks for the info. VS, wow! I had no idea of the angle really, guess it's not as steep/sustained as it looked.

Cheers,
Tom

In reply to shantaram:

I've found a pic of it Shantaram, the obvious splitter in the background here...

https://heavywhalley.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/arran-cir-mor.jpg

In reply to Tom Last:


That's not Arctic Way, because its across the gully on Caliban's Buttress. Just checked the new guidebook and I reckon it has to be Absent Friends E2 5c (no stars) with aid to get up to the roof on the left.

In reply to Michael Gordon:


Ok, I seem to be completely outnumbered in my views of YoYo. I'll shut up and try to do it again sometime! But I do think that anyone who thinks it's the best E1 in Scotland should also shut up if they havn't done Groovin' High and Dragon! I did it the same day as Space Walk, Unicorn and Scansor all of which were more memorable. I thought that Unicorn was too awkward to live up to the line but I thought Scansor's main pitch absolutely superb; a very underrated route in my opinion.

Needle is excellent, but Steeple and Haystacks are, although harder, even better in my opinion, and the long slim groove pitch on Spire is utterly fabulous, better than any individual pitch on those other three routes. Once you get to it, The Harp is brilliant too (another travesty at **), and I imagine all the routes on the slabs which are too hard and scary for me are even better!

In reply to Tom Last:
Thanks for the picture. As Robert said that splitter is not on Arctic Way. Further left and on the Caliban buttress.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Medi on Cloggy.

Currently gets no stars. I led it in 1983 with Tom Jones and we thought it was better than Resurrection.

Obviously it won't be getting any likes soon.

In reply to Kirill:

** route; disjointed and fades away after the scary crux.

In reply to IPPurewater:

Fairly awful. Similar in it's character to The Moon but nowhere near as good.

In reply to Ian Jones:




I gave it one.

Agree, it's superb and very much underated

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

The Hustler at Fairhead. Would get ***** in a Scottish guide book.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Salango at Fairhead. **** in any Scottish guide book.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Hurricane at Fairhead.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Cream at Tremadoc

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Nexus.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Dream/Liberator in Great Zawn.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Great, thanks for that Robert and Shantaram - it'd been Niggling me.

In reply to Ian Jones:

Yes, Nexus superb all the way, virtually move by move until the last rather indifferent easy final pitch. Fantastic rock, fabulous exposure.

In reply to Robert Durran:



That's some day! Unicorn is another top route for me.



It's a stunning pitch. But then so are the penultimate pitches on the other three. Really any trip up the main bastion is top notch.

In reply to Michael Gordon:

Agreed, always a fantastic day out!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:



Great Wall at Craig y Forwen

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Well, certainly not Great Western, good though it is

Doesn't help much I know

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Steeple on Shelterstone Crag is as good as anything I've climbed worldwide.

In reply to davewragg:

Big world m8.
Vector.

In reply to Ian Jones:

Watched it being done very close m8. Awesome shout. Too big for me. Vector vector. Did I suggest vector

In reply to Tom Last:

If u mean G..A. on Tryfan. Did it with 3 mates mid 80s on a summer morn wiv sacs followed by walk round glydwrs. Magnificent day out wiv great mates. Think classic easy routes like that are best done as part of something else. Stay safe

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

And the correct answer is...http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3218

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

These are my 10 but on a different day could have come up with a completely different list
Left Wall - Cromlech
Vector - Tremadoc
Widespread Ocean of fear - Lundy
Bitter Oasis - Borrowdale
Astral Stroll - Cornwall
Jolly Rodger - Fairhead but tons of other equally good Fairhead Routes
Star Gate - Pembroke
Cithereon Lundy
Suicide Wall - Cratcliffe
Shrike - Cloggy

Imagine that Darkinbad beats all of these certainly its certainly top of my list of lifetime routes to tick

In reply to Kipper-Phil Smith:


This has to be the odd man out here. Because, while it's most definitely a 3-star route, I'm sure it's nothing like as good as almost the other routes in the list. More embarrassingly, it's nothing like as good as either the totally brilliant Fern Hill or the even better Five Finger Exercise, both close by at Cratcliffe.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I included it as a token grit route but thought it better than Fern Hill (which starts up a gully an is a bit brief), and about the same as 5 finger!